When is Crossdressing Just plain "Not Right"

[Phyliss]

The other day I had my pedicure appointment. As usual L**** and I were having a nice conversation about a number of things. Now, I should mention that L**** "knows" about me, and doesn't have any problem. As a matter of fact she sometimes picks out the color for my toes. This month BTW they're a nice green with cute Shamrocks for St Patricks Day.
Anyway, more to the point of my posting. I asked L**** if she had any other CD clients. I told her that I didn't want to know who they were but was just courious if I was "The only one". She noted that she only had one other CD as part of her customer base. She did go on to mention the this person came into the shop about three or four weeks ago wearing a suit and some high heels, for their appointment.
Now, I don't have any problem about what somebody wants to wear or when they want to wear it. Shucks, I'm the last person to say anything to anybody about that subject. However, she did say something that kinda bothered me. L**** is a wonderful lady and I like her alot, sometimes though she has a tendancy to lack descretion. She sorta mentioned about this person that she was a bit worried about them wearing heels on the street in a business suit, because of their particular job. Being nosey I asked her what "job" that was. She kinda realized that she "had let the cat out of the bag a bit" All she said was "He's in the school system"
Now I don't expect he's gonna walk around the local school like a "Flaming Drag Queen" and I'm quite sure that he is very careful about his dressing. "Job Security", "Public Shame" and all that stuff.
I guess my question or topic of discussion is: "When should somebody just NOT crossdress?" Now I know there isn't a "choice" involved here, nor is there any ability to choose to crossdress. I also am NOT setting myself up as some arbiter of who should or should not crossdress. There are probably a few "Ministers" "Reverends" "Fathers" "Rabbis" around here as members, and I'm sure there are quite a few people here who work "in the school system"
I'm self employed and for the most part don't have anything to do with "public trust" (ie preacher, doctor, lawyer, teacher, ect) As I say, I'm NOT trying to be a judge of who can or who cannot CD but somehow the idea of being a CD and being in a profession that elicits "trust" seems to me to lack common sense. I know "common sense" and crossdressing really don't go well together. (Just watch me at a shoe sale, and you'll see a lack of common sense) More to the point, it just seems to me that if Crossdressing is so much a part of your life and so important to you, wouldn't it be somewhat smart to do what has to be done to avoid any appearance of breaking "The public trust"
Heck I'm probably gonna get Hammered well for making these comments, but it's been bothering me quite a bit. Now if I'm totally all wet and very wrong please jump on me and help me see the error of my way. I really want to learn more about the thought process. The mechanical end of CDing is rather easy. Put on the clothes and makeup and "presto changeo", a lady appears. There's more to it than just that. There has to be.

[marie354]

Hmmmmm.... Sounds like it might be simular to the story of a certain city manager that's been in the news lately.

[Daintre]

A persons job or profession should not dictate whether or not the individual should or shouldn't dress, What comes to mind is that discretion is the key thing. No responsible person should put him/herself in a position that would be career ending. If the urge to dress is that strong where it will impact your job and you lack the ability to contain it then perhaps professional help is needed.

[RobertaFermina]

I co-lead and lead services in my Spiritual Fellowship at least once every two months. In the last three months I have lead and co-lead 5 times.

At present, I will not serve in the pulpit CrossDressed *unless* it served a specific aim of that service's design. So if we ever had a service about Gender Issues, I would confidently CrossDress to serve spiritual and educational intentions.

Should I choose to "transition" to fulltime, or GenderQueer, I would think I would have a "coming-out" announcement and then *always* appear CrossDressed (fulltime), or *unpredictably* appear in various stages of mixed dress (genderqueer).

That is, I would establish a pattern for myself and live with it.

Right now, I CD for pleasure, and personal thereapeutic effects. I can pick my places and times: it is purely optional.

If people see me 90% of the time in MaleWear, and only 10% of the time EnFemme, I don't believe that *in-the-pulpit* should be part of that 10%.

My concern is that each person who sees me conduct a service EnFemme will have to emotionally adapt to the change in a trusted servant. That adaptation should be prepared *outside* the service so that people are not emotionally jarred at a time they are seeking spiritual respite and restoration.

I do not, at present, feel cause to "come out" as anything in particular - I am still exploring, too fresh to want to apply any definitions to myself. If talk in the fellowship rises to the level of hot rumor and gossip, I may have to "come out" as simply to provide clear information.


It is a little complex, yet I do see places it would not work for me and my fellowship.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Casey Morgan]

I don't understand the bit about "the public trust". What exactly is that and how would crossdressing conflict with that?

[sissystephanie]

Maybe he put the heels on just for his appointment! I usually wear open toe sandals when I get my pedicure (every two weeks), and if I am going to be out in drab I just take a pair of sandals in the car. Could be that is that is what happened.

Sissy

More Girl than man

[JoAnnDallas]

"the public trust".

This means people that deal with the public, such a policemen, firemen, teachers, doctors, politicians, and etc.

[Ashley1]

I don't think that it is a matter of right vs. wrong. I think that those people who are in positions of "public trust" and cross dress are in the same bucket as the rest of us. However, because of the sensitive nature of combining such positions with cross dressing, I think that those individuals should use much much more discretion in how they conduct their cross dressing activities and they should maintain high standards in how they conduct all of their activities.

Society is evolving at a snails pace in accepting all forms of transgendered, but, as in racial discrimination, we have come a considerable distance in the last fifty years. I believe that there is a majority of America's population that believe that cross dressing is disgusting or at least laughable or, dare I say "sinful". I think that most Americans don't think that cross dressers are perverts and that most would consider us harmless unless in some way it adversely influences children; therefore, especially teachers are in a more sensitive position than most of the rest of us.:hugs:
:love:
Ashley

[Brianna Lovely]

Marie, you beat me to it!

Mmm, inappropriate time or place, to go dressed?
Public trust?

If you like to dress, like a hooker and go to the local night club, on Saturday night, good for you.
However, it may not be seen as appropriate attire for teaching Sunday School at your local place of worship.

Do we hold people, who are in as public occupation, to a higher standard, than the general population? Think very carefully.
"I am not a crook."

I think, like anything else in this world, if people are exposed to enough T people, we will become common place, and therefore be absorbed.
Beware the Borg, giggle.

[Marla]

I was a high school teacher for 36 years and I would have never went to school dressed. Now why? It simply makes very good common sense! I had to have the respect of my students and because of societal norms, me showing up as Marla would have been very disruptive. Other professions have the same norms and so should be respected in order for the cd to be effective in their position. I love to cd but I agree that common sense has to be the main priority!

[marie354]

Do we hold people, who are in as public occupation, to a higher standard, than the general population? Think very carefully.
"I am not a crook."

I think, like anything else in this world, if people are exposed to enough T people, we will become common place, and therefore be absorbed.
Beware the Borg, giggle.

I agree!

You are giving your age away a bit there dear... I guess I am too because "I am not a crook" is a very famous phrase. Very trickey....

[Angie G]

If he is not exposing kids to his dressing I say he is O.K. with it :hugs:
Angie

[Phyliss]

Thank you very much for the rapid an insightful answers,
No, this person isn't a "city manager" in fact I don't know the person and I believe I've never met them, (being somewhat involved with my Grandsons education)
It was just something that was "bugging me".

[Casey Morgan]

This means people that deal with the public, such a policemen, firemen, teachers, doctors, politicians, and etc.

Thanks JoAnn. :happy:

Why shouldn't the public trust crossdress and be open about the fact that they do, even if they only do it when they're not at work? What unwritten contract is being broken here? The fact that it's supposed to be unacceptable?

I can only wonder where gays and lesbians would be today if only "common folk" were out. "Oh, well, sure he's gay, but who is he, really? It's not like he's anybody IMPORTANT." It's exactly the people in the public trust that we need to be out of the closet if they so choose. These people do carry a lot of respect. Most of us can be ignored quite easily. Dr. Somebody is going to have to be reckoned with, for good or for ill.

I can't help thinking that this "it's bad for the public trust to be out" thing is simply a reflection of the shame that the Transgender community deals with. We're still struggling with the thought that maybe this really ought to be kept under covers after all. Stealth to avoid that chapter of our lives, passing to avoid people passing judgement on us, there's quite a list of things that we collectively do out of shame and fear.

We want to be accepted as long as nobody knows we're doing this. Yes, the spotlight is withering. I'm inching my way into it rather than taking a leap and landing smack dab in the middle of it myself. But we can't all keep scurrying into the corners when that spotlight comes on. Some of us are going to have to step into that light and take our chances.

So I ask you (everybody, not just Phyliss). Are we going to create an environment within the Transgender that supports people stepping into that light or do we sit here wishing to god that people aren't going to do it? And remember this: this community is only known by the people who DO step into that spotlight. Christine Jorgensen stepped into the spotlight and the public got an (read: one) idea of what it means to be a transsexual. The TS community is still telling the world at large that hers is just one experience.

Let the public trust step into that spotlight. We can be pretty sure the experiences will be varied. If five respected people have five different experiences, hopefully the public will understand that we aren't all the same person. The public trust grants the Transgender community a respectability that most of us simply can't.

It's our community, our image. Do we continue to be a shadow community or do we dance in the light?

[Brianna Lovely]

I was a high school teacher for 36 years and I would have never went to school dressed. Now why? It simply makes very good common sense!

I love to cd but I agree that common sense has to be the main priority!

I have a friend who lives in another state, during the "Stonewall Riots", he was a teacher, not in NY. After watching the "gurls" defend themselves, by throwing lipsticks, at riot police, he decided that he had to do something.

He was Gay, but wanted to show the world, that all Gay people did not wear dresses and makeup.

He was one of the founders of the Gay Rights Movement. He helped form rallies and marches across the United States. He was taunted, jeered, spit on and beaten, both by the citizens and the police.

After seven years, he handed the reins over to the younger generation. He had done his job, as a teacher and helped educate the USA about Gay People and rights. He fought, because no one gives you rights, you have to earn them.


Now, perhaps, if you had worn a dress to class, 36 years ago, we would not be talking about people being afraid to be seen, in public, today.

[michelleupnorth]

It has been said here already. How can we expect the general public to accept us if we have a hard time accepting ourselves. If more us wouldn't be so worried about what other people think maybe some day people who crossdress wouldn't have to hide.

[sandra-leigh]

As I say, I'm NOT trying to be a judge of who can or who cannot CD but somehow the idea of being a CD and being in a profession that elicits "trust" seems to me to lack common sense.

It wasn't so long ago that homosexuals could rarely get high security clearances because of the fear that A) if they were not openly homosexual then someone might blackmail them, using their homosexuality as leverage to get at official secrets; and B) well, homosexuals are clearly moral degenerates and how could you trust a moral degenerate with anything of importance?

It seems to me that those days aren't gone yet. Those of you whose SO doesn't know, or "would definitely divorce you" if she knew -- what would you do to keep someone from spilling the beans to your SO?


Trust and public service: I work in the public service, and in theory in my old job I had access to a lot of private information... which I was trusted not to look at. When I had a major duty shift a year ago, they continued that trust by not revoking my access -- knowing that although I could look, that I would not. If they had found out that I cross-dressed, they would not have trusted my discretion any less... indeed, they might have trusted my discretion even more for appearing more human (I can seem "a little too perfect" from some perspectives.) On the other hand, if it had become widely known at work that I dressed, it is possible that they might have tried to change my work, under the "people will feel uncomfortable working with you" theory.

For any person, there are at least two distinct attributes: their professional competance, and their interpersonal relationship qualities. The "you might be blackmailed" hypothesis affects perceptions of professional competance -- but someone might be thought to be very competant and yet people might not feel comfortable working with them. Just like some people don't feel comfortable working with someone known to be gay.

There's "public trust" in someone's abilities and fairness and dedication, and I think that for a lot of jobs, that kind of trust would not be damaged by revelations of crossdressing. Depends, I suppose, on the extent to which people automatically assume that cross-dressing is impairingly deviant. (Homosexuals are no longer automatically pedophiles to the bulk of the population, at least around here -- but I wonder how crossdressers are viewed in that regard?)