I'M OUT - Well at least to my wife!

[Aloha_Dana]

Really not a thread, just an announcement to my few friends.

Last night I had 'the talk' w/my wife. I knew it's time was coming when she put a pair of her panties in my drawer the other week (see my One Step Closer post). Having done my research on how to out yourself to SO's, I was well prepared and it paid off.

Her reaction? There were several, but generally mixed. On one side, she does not see anything attractive about men in women's clothing and wants nothing to do w/it (I percieved that before as denial). And I have to give her credit 'cause there she was sitting there, talking about it w/me. On another side, she recognizes that this is important to me and that it is a sexual thing. Because of emotion #1, she can see now that there is an aspect of my life that she is choosing not to be a part of. This bums her out, big time. On another side, she can 'be playful' as demonstrated when she shared her panties w/me.

In the end we exchanged I love you's and sincere hugs and cuddled ourselves to sleep. This morning, she gave me an extra big kiss and, again, expressed her thanks for sharing w/her.

Wow, I can't belive it!!!! Yeahoo!!!

Thanks for reading,
Aloha, Dana

[DonnaT]

That's great Dana. Bet it's a big relief too!

[Ashleigh]

Good deal Dana. Now nurture the relationship and take things slow. She will be dealing with a lot for awhile as you have been.

[ChristineRenee]

That's just great Dana. It has to be a real load off your shoulders and yet, you realize now that this is not the beginning of the end, but rather just the end to the beginning. Now you continue on with the process of winning her over to your way of thinking. This will be done very slowly and incrementally Dana. You don't push this all on her at once or even too fast. Nurture the relationship along...let her take the lead even...but let her set the pace of this. Meanwhile, you continue to reinforce that this ultimately will be of benefit to her. How, you may ask? Well Dana, quid pro quo....you do for her, she does for you. I'll let you fill in the details of what to do for her...and she'll probably have a laundry list ready for you by that time anyway!

Over time, you will begin to see gradual changes in her attitude and willingness to be more aware and involved in your CD'ing. Again, let her take the lead and praise her for her understanding and acceptance. Can't emphasize that too strongly.

When you have finally reached the point where you are not only husband and wife, but best bud girlfriends as well...you have arrived!

At that point, will you please send her to me so I can have her train MY wife!;)

Thanks girlfriend!:D

Love,
Chrissie:)

[Paula A]

That's great, keep lines of comunication open and above all don't push the issue. take it slow.

[Trinity_cat]

Wonderful news Dana, I hope all goes well for the both of you

[Tristen Cox]

http://www.geocities.com/tristencx/icons/eusa_clap.gif Good for both of you!http://www.geocities.com/tristencx/icons/cheerleader.gif

[paulaN]

that's great news, now doesn't it feel like tons and tons of weight has been lifted from you. we're all in this together. so happy for you.

[Melissa A.]

So happy for you, Dana. It's a big step. Unfortunatley, as you will probably find soon, it's not the hardest. Telling is hard; living with the knowledge, for both of you may be harder. Don't want to bring you down or scare you, but I have been there. Just tread carefully for now, and don't get too high or too low. Sounds like you have an understanding, loving woman. Nurture that, don't push too hard, but always remember, you have done nothing wrong, and have a right to let her know how you feel.

However it goes, you have our, and my support, Dana.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Priscilla1018]

Hi Dana,
This is truly great news. I also came out of the darkness to my wife tonight.
Dos'nt this feel Grand.

Love and Hugs, :D
Priscilla

[Danielle1960]

HI Dana
I'm happy that it has worked out for you, it is absolutely wonderful. I think if you keep a respectful demeanor with the wife with regards to your dressing she will want to become more involved.
Danielle :)

[Holly]

Dana,

Well, you're on your way! Keep nuturing your relationship with your wife. And let her know how special she is. And remember, we're all with you!

[Aloha_Dana]

Thank you ladies for your kind and wise words. Many of you read between the lines and felt my excitement which could very easily lead to pushing too hard. Thanks, I'll take it slow and steady. Giving her time and the lead is very good advice that I will surely take to heart.

And Priscilla1018, great news! Venus must have been in a kind place last night. yes, what a load off. Whew and Yeah! So how did she respond? I hope everything is going well. I'm sure it is. The advice and support we get from the ladies here is invaluable!

Mahalo to all!
Love, Dana

[joyceelaine]

Really not a thread, just an announcement to my few friends.

Last night I had 'the talk' w/my wife. I knew it's time was coming when she put a pair of her panties in my drawer the other week (see my One Step Closer post). Having done my research on how to out yourself to SO's, I was well prepared and it paid off.

Her reaction? There were several, but generally mixed. On one side, she does not see anything attractive about men in women's clothing and wants nothing to do w/it (I percieved that before as denial). And I have to give her credit 'cause there she was sitting there, talking about it w/me. On another side, she recognizes that this is important to me and that it is a sexual thing. Because of emotion #1, she can see now that there is an aspect of my life that she is choosing not to be a part of. This bums her out, big time. On another side, she can 'be playful' as demonstrated when she shared her panties w/me.

In the end we exchanged I love you's and sincere hugs and cuddled ourselves to sleep. This morning, she gave me an extra big kiss and, again, expressed her thanks for sharing w/her.

Wow, I can't belive it!!!! Yeahoo!!!

Thanks for reading,
Aloha, Dana
I certainly give you alot of credit, while in our motor home I realized I was out of panties of my own and my SO shared hers while on the road. Here at home I was surprised when she give me six pairs of my very own. It is a start and I am 24/7 with the panties. just went into kneehigh stockings also. sweet dreamsxoxoxox

[Helana]

Dana

That is wonderful news. You have got the ball rolling and so long as the love remains strong between the two of you, this will work out fine. Acceptance and foregiveness are all based in love. Many of the things she does not fully understand or appreciate will come together overtime. Well done, I am so proud of you and your fantastic wife.

[Rikki]

Dana,

That is great news. You have heard it over and over, so I will turn it over just one more time, slow and easy and your life will be heavenly with your wife. Always be there for her when she needs answers and help with the lady chores. Run her bubble bath like you do yours.


Rikki

[Sweet Susan]

Priscilla and Dana, this is good stuff. What is going to happen in the next phase?

[Aloha_Dana]

Susan, I wish I had a collar like the one Melissa just recieved :) because I'm like a race horse out of the blocks. Well that is how I want to be, but I can't. I've been advised to take it easy, to give her time to let it soak in, to let her call the next shot.

What my next milestone is to have a place for me to keep my femme clothes (not in a box in the garage). I recieved two beautiful skirts just yesterday and I absolutely DO NOT want to cram them into a box. Uggh! But just this morning, another opportunity came my way.

She cleared out her bra drawer of the bras she no longer wears. She had a few larger ones from pregnancy, so this morning she put them in the br trash. It was like carma, I felt something tug at my heart and call me to the br (I was in the kitchen). Upon entering, I found my two most favorite bras discarded. My wife saw the distraught look on my face and said, "I'm sorry the room is so thrashed. I'll straighten it up tonight." I replied, "I'ts not the room I was looking at. It was what is in the waist basket."

She then said that what ever I want to do w/them is OK w/her (she is taking her 'I don't want to know' position). But then 5 minutes later, she came up to me and explained why she had tossed them. This was a big step for her to acknowlege me and my needs.

Tonight when we get home, I'll pull them out and be left w/the obvious problem of where to put them. I'll try to get her to say in my drawer.

Oh, and RE the two skirts, I'm thinking of asking her to try them on (they'll fit, I know). And if she likes them, well, they'll stay in the closet w/the othe skirts.

What do you say? Too much too fast?

Mahalo, Dana

[Aloha_Dana]

I'll be revisiting this thread periodically to post updates for others to reference, for feedback from you awesome ladies and for myself. I've realized that outing yourself to your SO is not a one-time event. Well, the day you tell her is, but then the real work begins. The relationship WILL CHANGE, hopefully for the better, not worse. It is our job to guide the new relationship as much as possible in the direction of our goal.

First, I'll address my goal w/respect to my wife and crossdressing: to live an open, honest and very intimate life w/my wife so that I can fully explore my life as a crossdresser and to share that experience w/her.

A quick recapp, I had the talk w/her, outing myself 2/8/05. I’ll call that Day 0.

Day 4, having received two new, beautiful designer skirts a few days earlier, I did not want to put them into a box, so I pushed it and asked her to try them on. I had them out hanging on the wall in our room for her to find, and when she came to bed that evening, she asked, 'what are those'? (I bought them and wanted to see if they fit you. If they do, then maybe I could keep them in the closet). It hit her like a ton of bricks.

Here is a little background on my wife. She is liberal politically and socially, but conservative sexually. She has tried at least once the other flavors of sex I've brought her way (bondage, anal, forced, public, intoxicated, fantasy, verbal, books), but she always just falls back to vanilla. When we talk about why she doesn't initiate the other flavors, her response is always the same, she 'forgets’, or ‘doesn't know how'. I've known her for 14+ yrs and my synopsis is that conscious or subconscious, she just isn't interested. She very much likes and needs her stable, unchanging life and relationship w/me.

OK, back to why I pressed the point after 4 days, when in light of all the advice I was encouraged to take it slow and give her the time she needs to assimilate this huge, thing. On The Table at this point were, 1) we needed to talk more when she was ready to, and 2) trying on the skirts. The skirt thing was my way of getting her to talk, to face the situation, to keep it alive. I wasn’t going to let it fall to the way side and be forgotten. I knew she had some issues to bring up and, I felt, there was no reason for her why she couldn’t ask me now. She had her reason which I found out later, was that she didn’t want to ask a question until she was OK w/the (all the possible) answer(s).

Day 7 during pillow talk just before bed, she finally came around to asking me two questions. Do I go out in public? (no) Why do I dress, to feel feminine or sexy? (both, it started w/feeling feminine and when I started wearing blouses and skirts, I wanted to look sexy). OK in inch at a time… Then she asked if I had any questions, YOU BET! I told her that I had some underwear that needs washing and if she would mind could I throw them into the wash? (no, that would be fine).

I'm sure you all are cursing me for not listenting to your advice, which is to take it easy. Sorry, as hard as I try, it just isn't in me. Ugh.

Day 8, in the morning she tried on the skirts. It was a little awkward for her, but she was a good sport and played along. One skirt fit, one didn’t and when she was done, asked if they fit me (yes). She also asked where I got them (Sierra Trading Post) and I volunteered at $15 ea. Everything was fine until she did the wash and had to handle a few of my panties and bras.

Day 8 evening, she had a breakdown. She came forward and shared a bit more of what she was dealing with. She said that she was AFRAID. One of her fears was loosing me. She also shared that men wearing ladies clothes 'grosses her out' and gave the examples that we all see during Halloween and at college parties. As much as I tried to reassure her and to help her w/her fears but she wanted nothing to do w/it. Well, as you can see, this was heartbreaking.

Day 9, in the morning she explained that she wants me to just acknowlege her fears at this point, and not to help her w/them. I think this is the point of the book: Men Are From Mar, Women Are From Venus. I wanted to fix her problem. She wanted an ear to listen to her problem.

Day 14, where are we now? She has come forward and admitted her worst fear (I hope) and was brutally honest. She is talking to me about it. I hope for the best (confidence) that she’ll come around when she opens up to learn about crossdressing and what, how and why I do it. I believe her ignorance is driving her fears. When she wants to talk, I’ll be there. Until then, I need all the help in giving her the time she needs.

[Holly]

Dana,

You KNOW what you need to do. As hard as it may be, stay to course. It has literally taken me years of nurturing my relationship with my wife to get to the point we are at today. For you own long term relationship with your wife, give her the room you know she needs. Be ready when she is ready, and don't candy coat anything. Be truthful and hide nothing. Both of you will be stronger in the end. Please do let us know how it's going.

[Fiona K]

That's great, keep lines of comunication open and above all don't push the issue. take it slow.

Of all the post here I agree most with Paula's.
Take it very slow, there will almost definitely be ups (when you think she's totally accepting) to downs when she is the exact opposite. Don't push & answer the questions as honestly as you can.

Good luck to you both
Fiona
xx

[DonnaT]

Fear

Fear is a primal instinct, which may appear irrational to some in some situations, but is an honest emotion.

One has to work at conquering their fears.

My wife is afraid of snakes. She knows most won't bite, and are good for some things, like vermin control. She not only knows that, but even understands it. Doesn't relieve her fear though. And it is actually a healthy fear, because some snakes do bite.

BUT, she's only afraid of snakes when snakes are present. Why worry about them all the time?

So, will the fear one has that the CD will want to go further and possibly transition, or your SO will not accept you’re dressing, ever go away?

It might, the more you learn, the more you talk about it with others, like on this forum, and the more you talk to your partner.

Remember also that there are stories of CDs going further than they had anticipated. So the SO's fear is based alot on what they have heard or learned on the internet.

I've told my wife for the last 29 years that I have no desire to take hormones or transition. But she still asks once in a while.

I have no problem with her asking, and we talk, and her fears ease until next time. But it isn't constantly on her mind.

Hopefully the emotion LOVE will be stronger than the emotion FEAR, so that your fears ease. As long as there is trust and love.

But will the the fear ever go away? It might not go away, but hopefully it could ease somewhat.

Only time will tell. But you have to realize that the fear real, and you need work together to overcome it.

[Rikki]

Dana,

Donna pretty much said it all. I would like to add that instead of telling your wife that you have some clothes that could be washed, that you as her if she has some that you could wash for her beings you are washing some of your things. One thing to accept something, and another thing to have to clean up. My wife will wash my things, but I mostly wash my own and some of her's too. My wife accepts and even contributes to my cross dressing which I am greatful for, so I try to help her around the house to show my appreciation. Try helping her with things that you take for granted and remind her every day how special she is. Just my two cents!


Rikki

[racquel]

Rikki has a good point,be the woman you want to be and not the man who expects a woman to clean up after you. :p
My opinion is to be the type of woman who understands the emotions that your wife is going through right now.If you must have things your own way in your time frame I believe you have a lot of the masculine showing through the clothing.Cross dressing should involve more than just putting on a skirt.
Feel emotions,don't just express feelings.
My love to your wife.Good luck to you both.

[Shining Star]

congatulations and keep on enjoying youself have fun

[sherri]

Dana, the following questions should in no way be perceived as being critical of you or your wife. I'm just intensely interested and I think this is one of the biggest issues this forum can address.


she does not see anything attractive about men in women's clothing and wants nothing to do w/it (I percieved that before as denial). I'm curious about what you mean by that perception.


She also shared that men wearing ladies clothes 'grosses her out' I know this is only one aspect of the issue, but I read this as physical revulsion on one level, and emotional on another. What do you think and feel when she tells you this?

On the physical level, her reaction strikes me as perfectly normal. (To understand how she feels, just mentally reverse your roles — you're straight and she wants to be a man — and do a gut check on how you would feel.) Your posts have made me realize that a CD is asking his wife to not only accept his abnormality, but to also become abnormal with him. Now before you react in predictable ways, I'll grant you that to an extent such a concept of normal is predicated on pre-conceived social mores, but that doesn't change the fact that this conditioning is very real and deeply ingrained. Moreover, there's not a general population opinion forum in the world that wouldn't resoundingly validate her sense of normalcy.

What's more, you freely admit that CDing is a form of sexual stimulus for you, and you indicate that you like to indulge in other forms of "kink" as well, whereas your wife's taste runs to the "vanilla". Here again the notion of normalcy kicks in, but there are other significant considerations.

[Aloha_Dana]

When we have professionals like you (all) to help us (me)?

Awesome feedback ladies. Thank you: Holly, Fiona, Donna, Rikki, Racquel, Star and Sherri.

One small comment in my defense, I'm not the kinda guy who expects my wife to do the laundry. I usually do it all myself and enjoy doing it as well as the other stuff. In this case, after I did all the sorting and pre-treating, and had processed the other 2 loads, she got the intimates in the wash. This is where I, again, probably, pushed too hard. But Rikki does have a subtle point that having another 'clean up' after our indulgences is too much. Thanks Rikki.

Holly and Fiona, Thanks and yes, honest, open communication is crutial. I don't have a problem w/that. It is waiting for it to happen...

Donna, you have shed some light on the fear issue that I hadn't considered. I was hoping for the day when all her questions are answered (yeah right), that all her fears would be relieved. I can make that adjustment. Thanks dear.

Rikki and Racquel, I'm on board here. No need to preach to the choir.

Shiniing Star, thank you for your support.

And Sherri, what can I say other than I need to dig deep to respond here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Dana
she does not see anything attractive about men in women's clothing and wants nothing to do w/it (I percieved that before as denial).
I'm curious about what you mean by that perception.

(sorry I don't know how to do the quote thing yet)

the 'nothing attractive' comment are her words from previous pillow talk. The conclusion of which was, 'wants nothing to do w/it'. The 'denial' remark was my perception trying to summarize her actions, not her feelings. She has known for some time as I have told her in drunken stupors, dropped hints, been caught, she's actually taken a couples pictures of me wearing panties. These events started several years ago and have increased in frequency to date. So, she has known no doubt. The phrases, 'don't ask, don't tell', or 'turn a blind eye' might fit here. As I think about it, it probably isn't denial, but more like, "I don't want to know about or see it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Dana
She also shared that men wearing ladies clothes 'grosses her out'
I read this as physical revulsion on one level, and emotional on another. What do you think and feel when she tells you this?

My first reaction and words to her comment was, "I'm not those guys". I pictured beligerent college guys overacting and putting a bad wrap to a good thing. I dress for different reasons and act in no way like the image she shared. As you know, my initial response was defensive, yet I am still confident that can clear up that issue w/open and honest communication.

You're right about the normalcy (is that a word?) and society. I'll have to think about that more.

RE the kink, I am keeping the sex issue seperate from the dressing issue, at least to her, for now. I shared that aspect of our relationship w/you because I thought it was a good example of how she reacts to 'abnormal' things, and also to justify why I push so hard. Again, she initially accepts, even tries, but then just lets them pass (forgets about them).

Thanks for the thought provoking reply, Sherri.

YOU LADIES ARE GOOD!

Big Mahalo!
Dana

[Aloha_Dana]

The saga continues...

Over the past several days (w/out discussion re cding), I noticed that my wife had 'stuff in her' that was causing problems. She was complaining of being tired (when she was getting ample sleep), then yesterday morning, she erupted at child #1. Throughout the day I e-mailed her and called asking if her day was getting better and if she knew what was bothering her. She didn't. So after dinner i took charge.

After the kids went to bed, I asked what was bothering her. She said she didn't know. I let it drop knowing that she knew that I knew something was up and she needed to talk about it.

Day 22 - Just as we climbed into bed, she asked in a very quite voice, 'why did you ask me to try on the skirts?' I thought about it knowing I had two reasons, one a superficial excuse, and the real one. I replied saying just this; one reason was because they were the first 'nice' skirts I had bought and I didn't want them kept folded up in a box and that if they fit her, I would like them to be worn by her so that they could see the light of day. Then I said, 'I think the real reason is because I wanted to be front and center in your attention'. She accepted the answers w/out remark.

So after a minute of no other comments, I asked her if I could say what was on my mind. She said OK. I told her that I want to talk about this, but I couldn't because she doesn't want to. Then I said that I want to reassure her of our relationship, but I couldn't do that either because she said she doesn't want reassuring. I told her that I felt as if I had a gag order placed on me along w/a ten foot pole that was keeping us apart. She then agreed to let me speak, saying, 'what do you want to talk about'.

Whew (sigh).

After a couple minutes of contemplation, I started w/reassuring her that she is most important in my life. I said that I will do whatever it takes to keep our love alive. I put it into perspective that CDing is personal to me, but she is what matters.

Next I said that this conversation will take not just 5 minutes, or 5 days, or even 5 weeks, but much more than that. I told her that I am very much concerned about taking things at her pace and that she understands the new information and has had a chance to talk to me about it before getting new info. (no comment by her on this, but I could hear the 'ugh' sigh).

In the meantime, I was also planning my approach for this ongoing conversation. My plan is to start where I started (with panties and lingerie) and follow my progression. I figured then she would get a fairly good perspective of where I am and what I like to do (when we get caught up to date).

I also decided to use a tact that engages her. So I asked her, what she thought I was going to do w/the panties she left in my drawer? (wear them-this is her answer) I asked for how long did she think I would wear them. (a while, all day). Then I confirmed that she was right, in fact I do like to wear them all day.

Next I said that I had a fancy for almost all lingerie. That I like to wear panties because I can get by w/out being noticed. I said that I didn't want to be caught by others, like when my bra strap shows through my shirt. But that the few times she has caught me that was intentional, that I did want her to catch me. (no comment).

Then I asked her if she liked the satin and lace nighty I bought for her (yes for HER) for V'day, liked the way the material felt on her skin. (yes, it is nice) I said I like the same feeling. I confirmed that I like to wear lingerie because I like the way if feels on my skin.

I again said that I want to give her time to think about what I shared and asked if we could talk again either in the morning or the next night. She quickly said, 'I don't have any questions. What you told me is just fine.' She was alseep 60 seconds later.

This morning, Day 23, though we still hugged and kissed and expressing gratitude for the talk, I could tell she had a lot on her mind. Slow, oh so slow, but we made positive way last night.

Thanks for reading. I welcome your feedback.

Dana

[DonnaT]

I would suggest purchasing the book "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd.

You two can read it a chapter at a time. Give her a yellow highlighter so she can mark parts she would like to discuss. You use another color to mark parts you'd like to discuss.

She clearly has questions but doesn't know how to ask them.

Helen suggest that the CDer read through the book first (no highlighting).

Then let her read the first chapter and highlight areas she'd like to discuss or find interesting, then you re-read it and highlight what you'd like to talk about or find interesting.

Read one chapter at a time and do not move on to the next chapter until everyone is satisfied with the discussion of the previous one.

She also suggest that the SO not read past chapter 4 for a while, because the book is intended for CDs, and some SO's are not ready for the later chapters.

Your wife may be hesitant about reading it, and about your 'motives'. Simply let her know that communication is important in a marriage, and the book will help you two in this matter.

[Aloha_Dana]

I would suggest purchasing the book "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd.

Thanks Donna. You might be on to something. I know she has questions. Her problem may be that she doesn't know how to ask them.

Dana

[Holly]

Dana,

I know that it is agonizingly slow going now, but the foudation for your future is being laid at this very moment. Donna's idea with the book is splendid... as long as your wife agrees. You're doing very well, Dana... keep it up.

[Helana]

So after a minute of no other comments, I asked her if I could say what was on my mind. She said OK. I told her that I want to talk about this, but I couldn't because she doesn't want to. Then I said that I want to reassure her of our relationship, but I couldn't do that either because she said she doesn't want reassuring. I told her that I felt as if I had a gag order placed on me along w/a ten foot pole that was keeping us apart.

Now that sounds very familiar! I can tell when my girlfriend has a troubled mind, whether it be over my CDing or something else, yet she finds it hard to talk about it - I think because she does not want something to end up in an argument and she will end up crying the whole night. So instead she says there is nothing on her mind even when it is obvious there is.

Your wife appears to be scared to talk about her issues because she is scared of that there may be a lot of hurting involved so she is skirting the issues. I think what you are doing is correct, keep the channels open and keep don't let her bury her issues - they have to be discussed and brought out into the light but it will take time and patience.

[nishp]

Bravo.

It takes a great deal of courage to come out. I could never do it considering my relationship with my wife. She would laugh at me make fun of me and then probablly use it for getting divorce.

- Nisha

[Celeste GG]

Yipee another one for the GG support group!!!

[Olivia]

Dana, I think you are on the right track. This path we're on can be such slow going sometimes. Yes, Donna's suggestion about the book is splendid! I wish I had known of it (or a similar idea) years ago. Your description of your wife's sexual attitudes sure sounds familiar; in fact, much of your story probabaly rings very true for many of us here. I could nod with intimate understanding as I read your posts. Hang in there girlfriend!! Even though my wife Jackie knew about my crossdressing years before we married (28 years now), for her to reach the point we're at now, her somewhat comfortable acceptance, was a long, slow journey. She didn't see me dressed in lingerie until we had been married at least 15 or 16 years. Now, I must say she doesn't bat an eye, at least, not that I see, lol. I think you will also reach that point. Please continue with your patient, measured, loving process. My hopes are with you dear and I know everyone else here feels the same. Olivia

[Aloha_Dana]

Thanks for your replies, they are comforting.

Not much has happened in the past week other than two small, un-intersting events that I'm gonna write down just for the record.

Last week, day 30, my wife had been in a sour mood, primarily because we have been planning a home addition for while and little progress has been made. It is the $$$ and slow progress w/out being able to keep schedule that has been bugging her. So w/that monkey on her back, as she was looking over the bank accounts (including mine) she found my cashier's check withdrawl for $150 and questioned me about it. That I left a paper trail was totally by accident. I forgot that my bank associates the check withdrawl to an account, whereas the PO does not (which is where I usually go - dammed soggy brain). So she questioned me about it and I came right out and said it was for a wig. She replied w/a sarcastic remark, "Going all out are you"? I sheepishly replied yes. Then she countered with, "I guess our daughter's play wigs don't do it for you"? [no]

Day 32 while folding laundry (a family event) as she would come across a pair of my panties (the only of my femme clothes in the family wash), she would toss them to me. I couldn't read her body and face lanquage clearly, but I took the tosses w/out comment.

Also, every few days or so she would make a light-hearted comment about lingerie or ladies clothes to me (with respect to me).

That night during pillow talk, she 'fessed up that the reason she got so upset about my wig purchase was because she had been trying to save $. I had no idea that she was upset - call me clueless, but with respect to CD'ing, she did'nt care, but again, I might be miss-reading her here. She said it was a financial issue, so I have to take her word for it.

Then I asked her about the panty tosses, whether it was because she didn't want to touch them or because she knew that I'd enjoy folding them? Her reply was the former, she said she is still a little uncomfortable. Then I asked her about the light-hearted comments, and she said that she is trying to be a good sport.

These little comments are one of the biggest signs she gives to me that she is working w/me on this. They're cute. I really enjoy them. I need to tell her that.

Day 34, I wrote an I'm Sorry note to her. In personal communications w/another sister here, it had been suggested/pointed out that I have been acting selfishly, not recognizing her sexual preferences. Also w/respect to my CD'ing, it was asked what is in it for her? In my note I addressed these two points as openly and forthright as I could. I probably have not given her sexual preference as much respect as I could have, so I will here on out. And to answer the question, what is in it for her, my answer was probably nothing. Though now I can see some things that we could enjoy togehter, but I won't mention those to her until she is ready.

Thanks for reading.
Aloha

[Helana]

Dana

Thats a good reality check. We all need a little kick up the backside now and then to produce a re-evaluation of where we are at and where we are going. The important thing is that you are doing the evaluations which means you are still staying on course. These are still early days, and I don't think your wife will still be tossing your undies at you a year from now ;) Just keep patience with her, she will succumb to your irresistible charm eventually. :)

[Aloha_Dana]

[QUOTE=Helana and I don't think your wife will still be tossing your undies at you a year from now ;) Just keep patience with her, she will succumb to your irresistible charm eventually. :)[/QUOTE]

Helana,

Thank you dear, but I want her to be tossing panties my way!!!

P.s. A panty toss. Wouldn't that get some attention at the State Fair! Hang the panty on the pole and win a prize!!!

[Susancd]

I came out to my wife about 4 years ago and she took it very well. She asked that I did not "shove it down her throat" so to speak and that I kept it from our young daughter. I have respected her wishes and she now buys lingerie for me on valentines day/birthdays, buys me make up sometimes and even suggests which clothes I may like to buy.
I think overall it has made our relationship stronger and I don't have anything to hide from her.

[Aloha_Dana]

I came out to my wife about 4 years ago and she took it very well. She asked that I did not "shove it down her throat" so to speak and that I kept it from our young daughter. I have respected her wishes and she now buys lingerie for me on valentines day/birthdays, buys me make up sometimes and even suggests which clothes I may like to buy.
I think overall it has made our relationship stronger and I don't have anything to hide from her.

Susan, awesome! Quick question, did she buy you male clothes and make suggestions as to which male clothes you might be interested in before you outed yourself?

[Susancd]

Aloha_Dana

Yes my wife did suggest male clothes and indeed still does from time to time, but it is nice when we go into a ladies fashion shop when she asks if I want to look for myself.

[Priscilla1018]

Hi Dana,

As i remember, we both came out to our wives at the same time.As of now she wants me to grow my beard back,not a problem.She thinks I spend too much time on this site,ok, I can deal with that also.It is'nt easey to deal with these problems,yet, I know many that have done so. My wife is a treasure and I will do anything for her.Do'nt ever loose site of that. Almost anything can be resolved by communication.Treat her special, she has a lot to absorb.
since you came out.
Always rememmber that spending the rest of your life with someone is a very serious matter,it should demand all of your attention. Make her happy and she will make you happy.I wish you the best of luck,it is'nt easy but it will change your life for the better.

Love and Hugs,
Priscilla

[ToniB]

Susan,
You really are lucky that your wife is so tolerant of your CDing. I came out to my wife many years ago, and she still "does not want to know" anything about that side of me. I don't know if she knows I CD when she is out, but she does not know I'm a member here, and will probably throw a fit if she knew what I've posted, so it's my big secret. She's still the most important thing in my life, and CDing comes a distant second, so in the closet I'll stay!

You didn't say whether your wife ever sees you female persona, or whether she buys these things for your private enjoyment, that would be dedication and love of the highest order! I wish I could get mine to have the sane attitude!

ToniB

[Aloha_Dana]

First, Pirscilla, thanks for your words. I hope the best for you and your wife. May I ask what are you doing to bring her around?

Toni, Sorry to hear that your wife hasn't accepted this aspect of your personality. Too bad 'cause you look awesome! Love your dress. Wish you the best.

Onto my progress. First, no more day counting. I woke the other morning and realized that the change I am working for shouldn't be measured in days. It was OK to start with because there was so much dynamics (grammar?) just following The Day. But now, things are slowing down and day counting doesn't seem appropriate.

On to the good news. I was going through my boxed wardrobe and came across a new pair of panties that I recall just having tried on once. A very pretty, ruby red, lace thong but w/a wide waist band. I can remember the shiver that went through me when I saw them on the rack :) Anyway, the crotch was just way too narrow for us GM's, so I left it out for my wife to try on to see if it fit her (deja vous, have I done this before?). She through a quick witted come-back to me saying, 'So now I get your hand-me-downs?' [all I could do was smile shyly] Anyway, she tried them on, but didn't fit her either.

So what to do w/a beautiful pair of panties that don't fit???

Just this morning, still blurry eyed and in the dark bedroom, I reached into my underwear drawer and grabbed what I could. Feeling nylon and not cotton, my heart skipped. She had put two pair of black nylon panties of hers into my drawer. Nothing fancy. Nothing exceptional. But FROM HER! ALL HER. ON HER OWN!!!

This move shows me that she loves me and is working w/me on this. And me, well I'm all pink inside!!!

Thanks for checking in.
Aloha, Dana

[Olivia]

Congratulations Dana! I think this is great progress, don't you? I also believe this is how acceptance really begins. You will start to notice the many, small things she'll do or say. Her acceptance of Dana will grow but it will take many steps like the black panties; you will savor each and every one too, I assure you. Good luck girl! Olivia

[Susancd]

Susan,
You really are lucky that your wife is so tolerant of your CDing. I came out to my wife many years ago, and she still "does not want to know" anything about that side of me. I don't know if she knows I CD when she is out, but she does not know I'm a member here, and will probably throw a fit if she knew what I've posted, so it's my big secret. She's still the most important thing in my life, and CDing comes a distant second, so in the closet I'll stay!

You didn't say whether your wife ever sees you female persona, or whether she buys these things for your private enjoyment, that would be dedication and love of the highest order! I wish I could get mine to have the sane attitude!

ToniB

ToniB

Sorry I took so long to reply.
My wife has seen some photos taken of me dressed at a Dressing Service and she has seen me a couple of times dressed around the house. (this was a few years ago!) To be honest I agree with you that both her and my 6 year old daughter are the most important things in my life and anything else would come a poor second.

I agree that I am very very lucky in that she is so tolerant. She has said that as far as she is concerned I am just the same person that she fell in love with and that knowing my "little secret" has not changed me in any way. She also does suggest, from time to time, that I treat myself and visit a dressing service for a day and get made up properly.

Susan

[dontay155]

Our wives were never really exposed to the concept of a segment of the GM population needing to (or just enjoying) engage in CDing. They truly have no frame of reference. Obvious questions: Will we leave them? Do we want to be women? Are we making a political statement that our wives are not enough of a woman in the house and we think we need to add to the amount of womanless in our zip code? Are they insufficient to keep us into lusting after women and keeping our male self alive and active? If they are attracted to normal maleness (and for sure 95% of them are by training, social indoctrination and conditioning: so no fooling the clear preference for a strong male partner is as real as real can be) and we want to dress and even worse act like some idea of women act, then where has their man gone? Real freaky and scary stuff. I suspect that VERY few women can take the news, with all its implication of loss (from their perspective) and not have a very very hard time with a CD husband. Indeed, to go overboard a bit, if their husband is a serious CD (and weirdly we all seem to be; there seems to be very few “Sunday part timers” once we start on the road to CDing), then they have lost their husband. You think a woman would have an easy time with that?

Its easy to understand why wives/gf have such a hard time adjusting to and accepting this in their male mates. After all, when they got married and/or into a serious relationship, it was WITH a more or less normal male. In some way, for most of us, we failed the “truth in advertising” requirement of honesty. And, after they have committed their lives to the package, we spring the truth on them. It sure seems unfair on the face of it.

Difficult stuff. The common thread is to go very very slow, use lots of reassurance, and demonstrate the “up side” or benefit to them. Buts lets face it, that “bneift” think is hard to do. Imagine this “well Honey, we can share a more diverse wardrobe…or “I’m a nicer person when I’m in my favorite bra or garter belt or dress….or “we can be girlfriends and shop together… I’m being a bit flippant here, but really, the upside for a wife is thin gruel. We want them to accept and support our CDing cause we need to do it. Plain and simple. It’s a very selfish activity. So I suspect that most wives see it as a major negative all the way around. And what if any of their neighbors find out? Or family friends? How will she feel when she knows they know she is married to a want-a-be GIRL? God, there is just nothing good in it from there perspective, just lots of terror.

I’m out of time, but for my part, I’m always trying to do stuff she wants when I get to wear a bra or panties or slip. My latest bambit it to ask her to put me in a bra before I start to doing major home upkeep stuff that I’m a bit reluctant to start (just because it’s a lot of work), then I try to really get to the job and thank her very very much for the bra while I was at work. And I think that thanking them lots for accepting us is also key.

But at the end of the day, I suspect that for the majority of us (no not all), it’s a hard situation for our wives. I do feel for them. They didn’t ask for this, and they didn’t expect it, and there is very little they can do about it, and its nothing that they wantrd in their lives when they said “I do”.

Love to all (hey this was my first real posting! Sorry it was so long, but I don’t have much time to write, and when I do, I want to!)

[ToniB]

Dontay155,
There's a lot of sense in what you said. Our SOs get very little out of acceptance of our CDing (except a happier man), and potentially can lose a lot. It's not all one sided, but heavily skewed. I'm aware of that, which is why I've always said I'd put her first every time, and that's why I'm still in the closet after 50 years. It won't stop me trying to change her mind, but I'm not going to bring it up every day. Getting in touch with all you gals here has just given me the confidence, encouragement and additional knowledge to try again soon. Thanks to you all for that. If I succeed, I'll willingly accept her limits at first, but it won't stop me pushing the boundaries on a very "softly-softly" basis.

ToniB

[Aloha_Dana]

Our wives were never really exposed to the concept of a segment of the GM population needing to (or just enjoying) engage in CDing. They truly have no frame of reference. Obvious questions: Will we leave them? Do we want to be women? Are we making a political statement that our wives are not enough of a woman in the house and we think we need to add to the amount of womanless in our zip code? Are they insufficient to keep us into lusting after women and keeping our male self alive and active? If they are attracted to normal maleness (and for sure 95% of them are by training, social indoctrination and conditioning: so no fooling the clear preference for a strong male partner is as real as real can be) and we want to dress and even worse act like some idea of women act, then where has their man gone? Real freaky and scary stuff. I suspect that VERY few women can take the news, with all its implication of loss (from their perspective) and not have a very very hard time with a CD husband. Indeed, to go overboard a bit, if their husband is a serious CD (and weirdly we all seem to be; there seems to be very few “Sunday part timers” once we start on the road to CDing), then they have lost their husband. You think a woman would have an easy time with that?

Its easy to understand why wives/gf have such a hard time adjusting to and accepting this in their male mates. After all, when they got married and/or into a serious relationship, it was WITH a more or less normal male. In some way, for most of us, we failed the “truth in advertising” requirement of honesty. And, after they have committed their lives to the package, we spring the truth on them. It sure seems unfair on the face of it.

Dontay, I had to check twice to make sure you weren't another member. This thread spawned another on this very issue. See Sexual Reality Check started by Sheribicd.

You are right that this is serious stuff and shouldn't be taken lightly. I think you might be off the mark w/respect to how many women accept men as CD'rs. Many SO's participate in this forum, many accept thier mate's choices, many encourage and support their selfish activity. Anyway, check out the other thread.

Thanks for posting.

Dana

[Aloha_Dana]

Thanks again for all the posts and It is amazing what difference a day makes. Today I would have responded differently to dontay's post. I flip flop so frequently, looking for answers, wanting recognition. I get frustrated. Almost complacent sometimes. Then my wife and I cuddle and I'm cured, for the day.

Two weeks ago, my wife was out of town on business. In addition to the extra responsibilities, I did manage to get some time in, hence the recent photos. Being fully dressed for several hours at a time was very nice. Sooooo pleasant. I just wanted to be. I emptied the boxes and for once my closet and drawers had my femme clothes properly stored, on hangars, folded nicely, etc.

The day before she came home was tough as I had to put my stuff away, but something happened to me during the week. When you are breaking norms, nothing happens unless you push for it. My big change, I decided to keep my wig in the closet, though still in its box. (recapp, I have a few panties and bras in my undy drawer, a few skirts and blouses in the hall closet). Of course, wearing panties every day, many were in the wash (I pulled out the other stuff). I knew she would have a lot of wash from her trip and designed the weekend so that the wash was her only chore. I eagerly waited for how she handled it.

It was a rollercoaster of emotions for me that eventually lead to a depressing week to follow. I saw her tossing, again, my panties to the side in a way that disgusted her :( But then I saw that she put them away for me :) Only to find out that some were still inside out, and unfolded :( OK, she is not into this in the least. I withdrew, had a sh*tty week and it rubbed off on her and the family.

Two days ago I made it a point to have another talk w/her. You know, this is always hard to do. Yet I pushed through it. I think I am getting a good bead on where she is. She loves me. She doesn't want her perception of me to change. And she doesn't have a contemporary view of what xdring is.

I started w/assurances, I love her, I want her respect, I want to be honest, she and the kids are most important to me, I like my masuline self and don't want to change my body, ...

Then I went into the COALGTI test results (I scored in the 40's, a femminized male). For what it's worht, I thought it would be a good ice breaker. She had read the results earlier as I had e-mailed them to her. I started by handing the printed results to her and asking if she had any questions. 'No. Do you?' OK, she doesn't' want to talk, but I have her ear so I pushed on.

The conversation, for lack of a better word, was totally one sided. She did not want to talk about it. I tried in vain to get to the heart of why she is reluctant to, but she is hiding it in Fort Nox some where deep. I raised many of the homerun issues that, I could tell, made her think, but no response given. Issues like:

following on the COALGTI point, 'I'm sure you have my well being at heart, and want me to be the happiest I can be', I almost stopped short because this was a killer point, 'the results state that I would be happier if I expressed my femminine side more.' No reply.

'People are not all masculine or femminine. What are your masculine traits?' No reply.

Grooming hair, 'why are men limited to shaving only (I hate my beard growth, I'd like to try smooth legs)?' Not touching their eyebrows, chest, legs, other? No resonse.

Clothes, 'Why are men's clothes limited to the two most uncomfortable materials, cotton and wool (I surely like to feel nicer materials on my body)?'

On the issue of how she treated my panties, I told her that it really upset me and that my clothes deserve the same respect as all the rest. To drive the point home, I said, how would you like it if I teated your jeans that way?


'Having my things in my drawers and hall closet, does it make you scared to go in/by there?' No

I also asked if she felt betrayed that I had not told her about my xdring prior to our engagement, referring to the 'truth in advertising' issue. She said no, she didn't.

I'm sure there was much more, but I can't remember it all. We both got upset and she left the room. She came back out a few moments later, crying, saying that I've been so distant the past week. I then admitted that when I saw how she treated my panties it really upset me. We didn't get any farther.

The next morning she left a note w/some questions and said that she doesn't want to reveal her true feelings because it will hurt me and she doesn't want to do that. OK, how to deal w/that???

That night she came home and said that she loves me very much and that she is lucky to have me as a husband and a father. (real mushy stuff). We cuddled that night, and in bed, and extra long kisses this morning.

Has any progress been made?

I think so. I'm determined to talk about this and not afraid to confront her on it, and she, at least, knows what bothers her about CDing. When she 'fesses up, has enough courage to tell me, I'll have something to move on.

Thanks for reading.
Dana

[DonnaT]

Talking is good Dana, but pushing it isn't. I'd suggest giving it a rest for a while. She may soon resent the "3rd degree" and the CDing right along with it.

Did you get Helen's book yet? Please do and let her start with the questions instead.

[Aloha_Dana]

Hey there, I thought I'd post a few of my conclusions as a result of the questions I've been asking myself. Just after I told my wife about my desire to dress in women's clothes, I took it upon myself to get to the bottom of what I was doing and what I wanted, for myself and from her. My conclusion is that I think I am a part-time, half-hearted crossdresser. I don't see this as a negative thing. I am what I am and I'm comfortable w/it. And I'm sure there are other girls out there who've been bitten by the half-bite bug too.

Several things have helped me recognize where I'm at. Make up can be fun, but I prefer a clean face. Wigs are neat, but they're itchy and hot. I'll never shave my legs or arms and I really don't like to see razor stubble and ingrown hairs on my chest, arm pits and crotch. And of course, everything takes time, effort and money. I don't have that drive/need in me to go all the way, where ever that is. I'm comfortable just wearing my lingerie, skirts, blouses and heels (for now at least).

Another aspect is the stress. The biggest stressor I see was put onto my wife when I told her. I really had a limited perspective of how it would affect her. Though she has been 'accepting' to the point that she hasn't kicked me out or burned my clothes, she hasn't put her hand down my pants (while en drab) since I told her that I was going to start wearing panties (more). I miss that and acts of affection by her like that one are more important to me than wearing panties under my Dockers. She is too important to me. Her happiness is too important to me. She can joke about it sometimes, but more often I see the concern in her eyes when she sees my clean arm pits and chest.

There are other stressors, such as where to hide everything, where and how to buy stuff, getting the right stuff. When I'm en femme, I feel like I've voluntarily stepped into a cage. The pleasure that comes w/dressing doesn't outway the pleasures I get from working in my garden, being w/friends, family, surfing or talking to the neighbors. And as I put more and more time into dressing, my time given to the other pleasures was cut significantly. Too much for me. Heck, I have a hard enough time keeping myself in good shape w/out trying to keep a woman in good shape too.

This is not a purge, but rather I've just come to terms w/myself. I think I have prioritized my needs and CD'ing isn't #1 or 2 or 3, but somewhere down quite a bit farther. I'll put my stuff back into the boxes and out from under my wife's nose. I won't retract anything I've said here, or to my wife, but I will 'let'r drift' for now. I'm not looking for sympathies, no reason for them. Again, I started this thread as kind of diary for my own growth and for other sisters in the hopes that those similar to me won't feel out of place.

This forum has been a very fun and insightful place. I've learned quite a bit. Most importantly, it has helped me come to my terms, for the time being, which I think was my ultimate goal. A sincere MAHALO to all my friends, aquaintances and sisters who have corresponded w/me. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the forum. The pictures are awesome and you've brought a ton of happy tears and laughter to me. And hugs and big thanks go to the moderators. You gals have done a super job in keeping this tiger in line. I didn't mean for this to be a 'good bye', but there sure is an aire of one. I think it means that I'll just be cutting back my time spent here.

Aloha,
Dana

P.s. standing offer: if any of you girls are planning a trip to the islands, pls do get in touch w/me. I'd be glad to help you w/you plans or possibly to get together.

[Holly]

Dana, I'm so happy that you have found your "balance." Being content with oneself brings invaluable peace of mind. Please come and visit as often as your schedule will allow. You'll always be one of the girls here!

[Wendy me]

dana sometimes a balance is just were or what we all need . as of yet i have not seen a rule book on this thing that we do . if you have found a place were you can be and keep the peace with you and your wife then thats a wonderful place to be.as your sisters here we will be here when ever you want to stop in .

for so manny of us this part of us can cousume us all..often running our lives and thouse cought up in it as well. at times we need to stop and look it were we are and were we think we are going.. a trip that is tacken one step at a time...........
i wish you well on this ....trip....my the answers you find be the ones you are looking for..........

huge wendy hugs to you ........

[bulmabriefs144]

On one side, she does not see anything attractive about men in women's clothing and wants nothing to do w/it (I percieved that before as denial).

Actually it isn't. Denial is when the other person chooses to ignore the evidence when it's clear. This is just her having initial coping problems. And actually, this is a fairly standard response. What is weird is that the two people I actually told (my sis and this girl I ride with) about this were like, oh that's no big deal. They both were like, "are you gay" as information on the subject is still distorted by media. Hmph. I'll have you know I'm bi. :)

[Jen_TGCD]

Usually, when you run out of closet space... is when you decide that you need to take another look at what this CD thing is all about!!! :D

Summer is a good time to "take a break". Panty hose and summer are not "user friendly"... and those butt pads turn into hot water bottles hanging on your hips!

Good luck, girlfriend!!! Peace and contentment to you!

PS: Just wondering??? Those coconut bras the Polynesian girls wear... do they come in a 42C???

[Aloha_Dana]

Holly, Wendy, Jen, Big warm Mahalos to you ladies! I have fresh plumeria leis for you all, and of course, a kiss (you just need to come and get it!) Seriously, thank you.

bulmabriefs144, bi or not, as you wrote,

"They both were like, "are you gay" as information on the subject is still distorted by media. Hmph." the info out there IS way distorted by the media."

I feel that is because they (society) doesn't understand us and until we come together w/a formal voice, we will be at the whim of them.

If any of you throw disc, you know the quandrum we're in. Be formal w/a voice and get our rights, or keep underground and just be ourselves and deal. Tough. I don't have an answer, but I do have a feeling, that we do need a voice to correct the misconceptions. WE CROSSDRESSERS ARE GOOD PEOPLE, SENSITIVE, CARING AND BEAUTIFUL. Society can't go wrong w/that.

Dana

[eileen1969]

wow! thats very kewl methinks, good for you girl and for her as well! this does take a little time and give yourself a great big hug cause you deserve this hun! take care n stay sexy girl! right on again! :)

[Aloha_Dana]

Eileen, 'saw that our b-days are right next to each other. Do you still feel jipped when folks give one present for b-day and Christmas? I nipped that in the bud many years ago ;)

Thanks for your post and support. Yes, my wife is truely worth it. A very special person. I'll see you around!

Mahalo,
Dana

[SammyGirl]

Hi,
I only have a few minutes to write this, sorry... I am Sammy and love being a girl, I had being a girl ever since I remember since my childhood, but it was not until now that I came out and told my wife I am 40 now so it took me a long time to come out. Anyway, she accepted me the way I was, and even help me pick my stuff as well as teach me how to apply make up and help me get dress-up. This lasted for about 6 months but now it is the total oppossite. I am back in the closet again. I really dont understand how can someone change their mind so quickly, as for me, I am in a serious crisis of finding myself. Anyhow, I wish you all the best


Sammy

[chris]

Well I guess I don't have to sit here and try to explain how things are for me Dana.....cause you just took the words right out of my mouth ! I've been struggling with my reasons for crossdressing for the past few months now and have very recently opened a pretty good dialog with my wife too. you really describe the emotions that I have been feeling. But unlike you I think I'm gonna stick around the forum a little more and take a more active roll.....I know we all have our reasons for what we do and just having some where to go and let it all out (like this awesome place) gives me the strength to accept who I am.....Love you all, Chris.... :)

[Aloha_Dana]

Sammy,

Welcome to the forum!

Wow. Sounds like something triggered your wife's change in behavior. Communication, education and time. I wish you and your wife the best.

Dana


Hi,
I only have a few minutes to write this, sorry... I am Sammy and love being a girl, I had being a girl ever since I remember since my childhood, but it was not until now that I came out and told my wife I am 40 now so it took me a long time to come out. Anyway, she accepted me the way I was, and even help me pick my stuff as well as teach me how to apply make up and help me get dress-up. This lasted for about 6 months but now it is the total oppossite. I am back in the closet again. I really dont understand how can someone change their mind so quickly, as for me, I am in a serious crisis of finding myself. Anyhow, I wish you all the best


Sammy