Crossdressing on TV 16th February 9pm

[Elinor]

On channel 5 or 4 at 9pm a programe on crossdressing.
Hopefuly a proper look at crossdressing.

Hosted by the Turner prize winner who met the queen wearing a dress.

[Julie]

The programme is on Channel 4 and is called 'Why Men Wear Frocks'. The Turner Prize winner is named Clair Perry and in her words she says "She's very pleased with the film".

JJ

[Ashleigh]

Julie, do you know if this is being shown in the USA? If so, when and where?

[Elinor]

21:00 Wed 16th
Channel 4
Why Men Wear Frocks
Turner prize winner and cross-dresser Grayson Perry explores transvestitism, and makes distinctions between being a transvestite, being a drag queen, being gay and dressing up on a stag night. Perry asserts that if cross-dressing is a flight from masculinity, then masculinity must be attended to, and he investigates the difficulty of being a man

Duration: 60mins
(direct copy from info on page)

I don't know if it will b shown in the states, lets just hope so

[Julie]

Here's what Claire (Grayson) Perry says in full about the programme on a forum she sometimes posts at. Ashleigh, sorry I don't know if this documentry will be shown in the USA, I'd assume it will at some point but no Idea when.

Claire Perry
Location: London
Channel 4 film next week




This is to let you all know that we have finished making the programme for channel 4 and it will be broadcast next Wednesday the 16th of February at 9.00pm. This is a lot sooner than I expected but I think a space became vacant. I have held off posting about it until I was pretty certain of the timing.


Channel 4 must like it as they have given it the best factual slot of the week ironically just before ‘Desperate Housewives’!

The film is called ‘Why Men Wear Frocks’. The one thing Channel 4 retain control of is the title and they feel this one will bring in the biggest audience and its typical of their Ronseal approach ,’it does what it says on the tin.’ They have a point as I do put forward my thoughts on why I think we do. We have to remember that most of the audience are non trannies (wierd).

I am very pleased with the film, I think we have been able to get just the right tone sometimes serious, sometimes funny and sometimes moving. I think it portrays TVs as thoughtful gentle brave men.

Inevitably I’m sure their will be some long detailed posts on this website as to why I was not right about transvestism and I was the wrong sort of trannie. I make a point in the film that perhaps men need to get away from the need to always be right, perhaps there also isn’t a right way to think about transvestism. I have put my head above the parapet and said what I think and feel.

Making the film has been a great experience and I have met a lot of lovely people on the way. I would like to thank again all those with the courage to go on camera and contribute, Martine and everyone at the Harmony Weekend, Jodie and the Boudettes and everyone else even if some of you didn’t make it into the final edit. One of the painful aspects of programme making is seeing 90% of the footage some of which is good go into the bin. One difficult sequence we shot in Chelmsford high street, where I had learnt a long speech and the camera was on a distant jib so I
seemed to passers by to be a mad trannie talking to himself, we had to cut because it didn’t work.


Filming another sequence where I talk to schoolboys was a real eyeopener, they were so funny and articulate that I had my own prejudices challenged.

Because Channel 4 brought the broadcast forward by over a month I won’t actually be in the country when it is on and won’t be back till the 8th of March if anyone wants to contact me about it. I shall be dressing up in the southern hemisphere.

I really hope you like it.
Claire Perry

JJ

[eleventhdr]

Hey if and when you find out when it will be shown over here in the states please do let us know alright. Thank's Suzy The Doctor Eleventh.

[Helana]

Can anyone in Britain record this digitally or use VHS and transfer to a file so others can view it. It looks like it is a serious documentary and I would love to see it myself.

[jade lee]

what is the station ID. we all live in different state. I can record it on to my dvd recorder.

[Jennifer_G]

Can anyone in Britain record this digitally or use VHS and transfer to a file so others can view it. It looks like it is a serious documentary and I would love to see it myself.

I will be recording this onto DVD hopefully.
Even with some compression and adverts removed its gonna be a big file.
Any ideas how to host it for download?
Also what format?
Leave it as .vob or convert to .avi (divx)?

any ideas?

[paulaN]

sounds like a must see to me. I can't wait.

[TrueGemini'sWife GG]

It is about time!

I also, hope they do show it here in the states. Gem and I and so many others, would LOVE to see it..
I am going to tvguide.com and search the title..

I'll let you know if I find it, K?

Lots of Love,
;)
Pattie

[TrueGemini'sWife GG]

I can't find it..

That totally s**ks!
Hopefully, they will decide to air it here in the states some time soon or it will become available on DVD at Amazon or something..

Lots of Love,
;)
Pattie

[Jennifer_G]

I can't find it..

That totally s**ks!
Hopefully, they will decide to air it here in the states some time soon or it will become available on DVD at Amazon or something..

Lots of Love,
;)
Pattie

like i said above in this thread.
I can record it to DVD but what is the best file size/format etc and place for me to upload so you folks everywhere other than the UK can download it?

[Helana]

I will be recording this onto DVD hopefully.
Even with some compression and adverts removed its gonna be a big file.
Any ideas how to host it for download?
Also what format?
Leave it as .vob or convert to .avi (divx)?

any ideas?

Jennifer - I think divx offers the best compression rates. The program will be about 50 mins long. I downloaded some old Blake's 7 episodes on Divx also 50 mins long and it works out at about 125MB with high compression - i think the picture was only 350 x 250. Does anyone have a host server we can post this on for a few weeks?

[kirsti]

I think maybe an AVI may be a good format that way if anyone doesnt have a dvd burner could still download the AVI file and play it useing their media player on their computer.
If it is done in AVI perhapes multiple files would be better that way it can be downloaded in several sessions.
Of course the hosting is another obstacle,seeing as how bandwidth is so expensive for a such a large file.
What would be really cool is have it as a streaming video at the time of broadcast,that way anyone with media player or(codecs)can veiw it .
what do you think?

[Jennifer_G]

Jennifer - I think divx offers the best compression rates. The program will be about 50 mins long. I downloaded some old Blake's 7 episodes on Divx also 50 mins long and it works out at about 125MB with high compression - i think the picture was only 350 x 250. Does anyone have a host server we can post this on for a few weeks?

I have a spare computer that I may be able to set up as an FTP server, the problem would be that the bandwidth would be severly limited as is my limited ability (brain bandwidth) to get it to work properly.
I did have a little file server before which was ok with small files like MP3's, as they took 7-10 mins to download but with a huge file 125mb or bigger I am not sure if it will be ok.
I could give it a go but there may be someone more techy minded here that maybe could do the job better.

[Paula UK]

if i were you id simply upload it to a free host in avi format. theres loads of free servers, many without any storage limits and many that will accept movie formats

as a webdesigner i rent server space from a US company. howver a file the size that this ones going to be, being downloaded by so many will cost a small fortune.

paula x
like i said above in this thread.
I can record it to DVD but what is the best file size/format etc and place for me to upload so you folks everywhere other than the UK can download it?

[Jennifer_G]

if i were you id simply upload it to a free host in avi format. theres loads of free servers, many without any storage limits and many that will accept movie formats

as a webdesigner i rent server space from a US company. howver a file the size that this ones going to be, being downloaded by so many will cost a small fortune.

paula x

I suppose posting to the newsgroups alt.binaries.documentaries would be an option the file could be split into 25 or so 5mb .rar files.
The problem with this is that its not everyones cup of tea to be messing with .rar & .par files.

What are these free servers? can you post a link?

[Katiegirl]

I was at a TG group meeting last night in the New Forest at which they annouced this programme.

The Group is called Mayflower and have a number of venues around the South of England. They were apparently appoached by the producers of the programme to see if some of its members would agree to be filmed. Some of the members did agree and were filmed, but weither they will appear is another matter.

I will not see it as I will be at another TG meeting and the video is broke, will have to wait for the repeat

:)


Mind of a Woman, Body of a Man, Life is a Bitch

[Tamara Croft]

Hmm... 125mb file is kinda small for 50 min long episode. Usually if you use xvid codec with ac3 or mp3 sound, 624 x 352 is normally a good size so you can watch it full screen. But that is going to make it a huge file something like 600mb. I might be able to get it hosted on a private ftp... I will let you know.

Tamara x

[Deina]

I sent an email to BBC America asking when they will broadcast it here in the states. There is no guarantee that they will reply (volume of mail) but it would be a good idea if everyone else would send them an email requesting it as well.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/about/contactus.jsp
http://viewerrelations.bbcamerica.com/bbcaviewerrelations/bbcaviewerrelations.nsf

Deina
:p (Please note that I made ABSOLUTELY NO nasty comments about Camilla Parker-Bowles!) :p

[Lindahexi]

:) Thought you might like a couple of pictures of Grayson Perry, this is the dress that he wore when accepting the Turner Prize, also his wife and daughter in other pic.

I'm recording the programme on DVD and hard drive, MPEG2, hope it's not a let down like most of them. I have seen the trailer for the prog and it looks quite promissing, but....

Linda.

[Julie]

Here's the link to Grayson Perry's Web Site. It isn't kept up to date but there are a couple of links to her work.

http://graysonperry.co.uk/ (http://graysonperry.co.uk/)

JJ

[Katiegirl]

Deina - Channel 5 is not part of the BBC but an inderpendant company so I doubt weither BBC America will show it

:)


Mind of a Woman, Body of a Man, Life is a Bitch

[danielle_bc]

On channel 5 or 4 at 9pm a programe on crossdressing.
Hopefuly a proper look at crossdressing.

Hosted by the Turner prize winner who met the queen wearing a dress.

So this you tell me and I don't have satellite tv, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!! :mad: :(

Enjoy the program !. :D

[Helana]

"In the film Grayson asks other people from the transgender community to explore why they want to dress in women’s clothes. “Cross-dressing is a complicated kind of flight from masculinity and the way it’s policed, so it’s the masculinity we should attend to, not just the cross-dressing. Ultimately, Why Men Wear Frocks is about the difficulty of being a man at this time,” says Grayson Perry."

Grayson seems to have had a good think about this. I agree with his analysis, the root of crossdressing is the dire unnaturalness of the masculine role model. Boys should not be forced to castrate their feminine traits in order to become men. Now I really want to see this!

If there is no server available to host this then I will need to send one of you girls a blank DVD with a self-addressed envelope.

[Julie]

This is the press release from the company (TwoFour TV) behind the programme but it doesn't shed any new light.

http://www.twofour.co.uk/broadcast/news_item.asp?newsID=169

JJ

[Lucy Coleman]

Deina - Channel 5 is not part of the BBC but an inderpendant company so I doubt weither BBC America will show itDeina, BBC America does show some Channel 4 shows in the USA (Graham Norton is a case in point) so you never know you may get it at some later date, I suppose it al depends on how well it goes down here in the UK.

[Julie]

Check the link below about the programme, there is also a link to an interview with Grayson Perry. I only caught the programme in dribs and drabs but thought it was a little more positive than what is normally portrayed of us, what did you think?

http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/W/why_men_wear_frocks/index.html

JJ

[Julie York]

I just saw the programme. It was good. There's some damned ugly guys out there who want to be women, but I'm one of them so I should be more compassionate.

But it was good.

But they were.

No they weren't they were my 'sisters' and I love them all. Yes, we should all stand together because we are going to change the world. We are all the same in a big sisterly huggy sort of way.





Even the ugly ones.





Over 80.

[MonaSmith]

I just watched it too,

It was good, but I didn't find that much in it that really related to me and the way I feel about crossdressing.

Still, it was worth viewing, and it gave me and Mum something to talk about.

Mona xx.

[Maddie Knight]

I've just watched the program and although I agree with most of the points made there was one part I disagree with. When talking to the young boys about cd'ing one of them asked him why he cd'd. His response to this was because i want to. This sugests a choice, in my case I have never had a choice, I either cd or I go bonkers.

[Annemarie]

I thought it gave a good overview of the whole crossdressing phenomenon, one can criticise some aspects of it, like the interview with the ts, which didn't really enlighten a different phenomenon, but in one hour it did a good job of surveying all aspects of crossdressing.

[~Tammy~]

I watched this with Tamara. On the whole I was quite impressed with the program.

I think it gave a decent and mostly accurate account on how transvestites are human beings who simply enjoy dressing up in soft pretty clothes and experiencing a different side of life.

I wasn't too impressed with the interview with the transexual though. I know this was primarly a program focused on transvestites, but thought Grayson came down a bit hard on the transexual.

I have recorded the show and will snip and encode it, it incase anyone wants to see it. It should be available in a couple of days when I find someone to host it. Oh, and the sound didnt turn out too great but it will be watchable :rolleyes:

~Tammy~

[alba68]

Deina - Channel 5 is not part of the BBC but an inderpendant company so I doubt weither BBC America will show it

On looking at the website BBC America are scheduled to show Faking It (Channel 4) and Cold Feet (ITV 1) so it looks like programmes from all UK channels are shown. Keep pestering them with emails and they might show it.

[ToniB]

I just watched it too, and felt it treated the subject fairly well. Since it was a transvestite who put the programme together and was the main contributor, it would be surprising if was not sympathetic to our genre. Like Mona, I didn't find a great deal of direct interest to me, and my likes and dislikes, but in only an hour, there are limititions to what can be included, and they did cover a lot of ground.
If there's one message that came accross, it was that the majority of transvestites are straight "normal" blokes underneath, with blokey interests when they are not dressed. I can identify with that, but I know that does not apply to the TS/TGs among us, but other programes have covered that subject in more detail, and one hour is not enough to cover everything. Let's be grateful for whatever coverage we get; it can only help to educate the general public that we don't threaten anyone, but just get a lot of satisfaction out of doing something that they don't.

Toni

[Julie]

On an English site I visit this programme has engendered quite a debate, the consensus is that it was a little more positive towards us than usual. That said there were some who spoke against it, here's 3 posts from nearly 350 posted so far.






I will try to be succinct but it will be very difficult. The programme in question has put the issue of Transgender PR back 30 years. Grayson Perry espoused old style mythology as if he had discovered it himself. The man has used his Turner Prize found fame to be involved in a Television programme that has and will hurt so many members of the TG community for a long time to come. Not only did he effectively 'out' large numbers of 'closeted ' TV's with the one single glib statement. But he put a cleaver to the divide between TS and TV parts of the community with his own ignorant prejudices about TS,s ( transsexuals). His in accurate portrayal of the history of transvestism made him look the fool he was and is...


I don't know if the programme makers relied on Perry's own knowledge or looked at the real history at all but massive amounts were missed out! NO inclusion of variation of Transvestism in other cultures as the would have destroyed the major premise of his arguments. The Katoey of Thialand, the Hjiras of India and the Fa fa fine of the Polynesian islands all are example of different variations. No mention of Molly house practises in the regency period or Chevalier D'eon in the Napoleonic era. I think it is disgraceful that this programme even got an airing at all!




I would always defend Grayson's right to make a programme about his own transvestism. As I said before I think the most important point of the programme was that he was prepared to make it and with luck that is the main message that most casual viewers will take away ... forgetting all the rest.


My subjective criticism is that I would much rather Grayson did not try to talk for me.



My objective criticism is that Grayson's theories were completely half-baked. His historical analysis was barmy and factually inaccurate from beginning to end.



His suggestion that wanting to cut off your willy is a male mechanical act was entirely subjective. He spoke to one not very television savvy TS. If he had taken the trouble to ask somebody with any in-depth knowledge on the subject, they would have told a very different story which is beginning to be backed up by real science.



I haven't a clue why Grayson wants to dress as a little girl with a bow in her hair. I'm certainly not going to tell him why. He has been described by the Telegraph as "a transvestite potter with a strong line in pornographic and paedophile imagery" ....



.... I could speculate that he is in fact a repressed paedophile who demeans the innocence of small girls by dressing as one in the most ridiculous manner. It's not a very nice suggestion is it? And I'm sure Grayson would refute it to his dying breath ... And how dare I make such a suggestion? I have no knowledge what goes on in his head. I have no evidence that he is even remotely a paedophile.



Grayson suggested to the unfortunate TS in the film that she was so much a man that she wanted to cut her own willy off as a male solution to some imaginary condition that Grayson seems to know all about. This was deeply offensive to a person who has struggled all her life to be accepted for who she is. He has not one shred of evidence to back this idea up except what goes on inside his own head. He is also flying in the face of a growing body of scientific evidence which indicates that TSs who undergo GRS find huge relief in the result .... and strong indications that there are likely to be differences in the brains of TSs and genetic reasons for them being the way they are.



You complain about 'the detractors harping on and whining "wah wah it didn't talk about me"' ..... I haven't read a single post like that ... please show me one .... The POINT HAS BEEN EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE ... THAT HE SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE THERE. This programme went out on national television and may influence the ideas of many people with no previous knowledge of TGism. If he had confined himself to talking about his own feelings and let others try to explain theirs without imposing his own agenda on other them, it would have been very worthwhile.



Why should I have to feel it necessary to say these things again for the millionth time. Grayson is such a nice sensitive man ... except he apparently chooses not to believe or try to empathize with the experiences of other people.



I'm sorry I haven't addressed you directly, Claire. Perhaps you would like to answer these points.




I feel the whole thread has missed the point....and the point was...."An EXPLORATION OF MASCULINITY" Claire’s knowledge of Tranvestic history, Transsexualism, let alone that almost unheard of Intersex/hermaphrodism was non existent judging by this programme and Claire stuck almost rigidly to safe well known territory only coming off the rails slightly when applying her very own and subjective concepts of "masculinity" to

Transsexualism.



Claire Perry asserts that Transgenderism is merely a “flight” from masculinity and I quote.



“Why Men Wear Frocks with Grayson Perry is commissioned by Jan Younghusband, the head of arts at Channel 4. “Grayson is planning to take an intelligent and witty look at contemporary attitudes to masculinity,” she says.



In the film Grayson asks other people from the transgender community to explore why they want to dress in women’s clothes. “Cross-dressing is a complicated kind of flight from masculinity and the way it’s policed, so it’s the masculinity we should attend to, not just the cross-dressing. Ultimately, Why Men Wear Frocks is about the difficulty of being a man at this time,” says Grayson Perry.”



So Claire freely admits she was predominately exploring male attitudes to masculinity, hence the school interview all boys and no girls (an excellent interview) the Bikers at the race track, all guys and no girls and so in that context it was a an enjoyable programme which had some valid points.



Challenging any attitudes including male ones can be no bad thing and the exploration of male attitudes to Transvestism is particularly a valid line of questioning.



It was entitled “Men who wear frocks” and it explored and questioned men who were clearly happy identifying as such and spoke of their need to escape masculinity for all too brief periods of their lives. If you doubt it watch the programme again.



In light of Claire’s views on masculinity summarised by me as thus “ Men don’t be afraid to emote or cry it won’t dissolve your balls” Again it was an exploration of Transvestism and the men who are clearly happy identifying as “men who wear frocks” Claire has neither the knowledge or tact to explore Transsexualism period, and this point was rather rudely brought home in her interview with Charlotte. Is it any wonder Claire could not fathom Charlotte out, after all Claire’s whole remit was to explore masculinity not gender diversity let alone Transsexualism.



Claire repeated the message throughout the programme that “Men” should not be afraid to explore their gender expressing it in emotions, thoughts and clothing as much as possible. I would say not entirely an unexpected viewpoint from a transvestite artist.



So for men who are happy to identify as “men who wear frocks” this was your programme but for those who live a TG lifestyle whether part time or full time who are not merely “taking a flight from masculinity” there was little to offer.



Diversity was limited to masculinity and guys who wear frocks and when Claire attempted, only very briefly, to step outside that territory it was not only Charlotte who was a little lost.



Its educational value lay in challenging concepts of masculinity Claire’s knowledge and experiences clearly lay there and no further.



All in all an entertaining programme but I do wonder how many of its target audience (men) would have been watching and willing to be open to the idea of exploring their masculinity? Claire at least had the willingness to attempt to convey the message and let’s face it there is nothing wrong on occasion in being a publicity ****, essential in the arts.


As some of the posts following the programme being shown were mostly positive I thought it would be good to see some negative views to add a balance.

JJ

[Julie]

And here's a review from one newspaper in the UK this morning on the programme.






Hair today, gown tomorrow





“You’ve probably glimpsed us on TV,” said Grayson Perry, introducing his essay on transvestism, Why Men Wear Frocks. Glimpsed mate?





You’re a fixture in the schedules, and I’m not just talking about Little Britain’s Emily (willingly identified by Perry as one of the more accurate representations of the transvestite life).





Only last May One Life devoted a whole programme to the travails of Charlotte (aka Jim) and Claire (aka Jim), complete with the obligatory sequences of nylon stockings being smoothed over knobbly masculine knees. True, as far as I’m aware none of the major soaps has yet run a transvestism storyline (could this be what Eastenders is looking for?).





True, too, that previous documentaries have not been presented by a man happy to alternate between motorbike leathers and a size 14 baby-doll dress. But even so, you couldn’t help suspecting that you were going to see the same old slingbacks being taken for a totter round the block.





In fact Perry’s film did deliver something new, in among the familiar stuff about the tranquillising effect of taffeta and the sideshow spectacle of a large crowd of panto dames attending a transvestite mini-break in Scarborough. For one thing, Perry was a winning presence – drily funny and unhysterical about what he described as a “compulsion”. Where previous films about transvestism have tended to present the life as an inescapable plight, there was an air of Tranny Pride to Perry’s approach.





Transvestites, he argued, were simply men who were unwilling to restrict themselves to a historically accidental definition of masculinity. And in pursuit of that argument, he went to some interesting places. His passion for motorcycles, for example, allowed him to draw parallels between the masculine dressing up of bike racers (all that figure-hugging leather, all that colour) and the transvestite’s love of frilly schmutter.





Some questions remained unanswered. Perry argued that it was getting harder for men to reveal their sensitive side, suggested that word of metrosexuality has yet to reach Essex. He never resolved either whether the costumes transvestites wear constitute a disguise within which they can move freely, or act as a billboard for their inner feelings. Is it a kind of hiding or a kind of speech?





But there was something fine about the final sequence in which he walked through a London street market in skirt and lime-green stockings, reprising a triumphant tracking shot from The Naked Civil Servant. Children and stallholders hooted and catcalled, and Perry smiled and sashayed as if they were all throwing flowers.





Thomas Sutcliffe (Independent 17th February 2005





JJ

[stephanie27]

I came away from the programme feeling like we had all been pigeon-holed into a category defined by how Perry defines Transvestism.

I agree with most of the posts above; mainly that an exploration of Transvestism or Masculinity from Perry's point of view should not have been presented as an all encompassing explanation of why we all do it.

I'm sure that everyone on the forum will agree that, as cross dressing is such a personal thing, each of our reasons for doing it may be different, and the way that each of us expresses our femininity is different.

I suppose that in Perry's defence, a 1 hour programme is not nearly enough to explore all aspects of the subject - I think you would probably be able to fill an entire series - but surely that is another reason not to present her opinions as true for all of us.

I was particularly annoyed by the final line:

"...there's one of those transvestites, good for him."

I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm dressed I don't think of myself as a "him," so it's difficult for me to identify with the image of transvestism portrayed in the programme.

I just don't like the idea of someone else dictating how I should be perceived...

S

[Susan S]

Missed it as set the video for Channel 5 instead. Looks like I need to read all these posts to get the gist of it.

[Katiegirl]

I was at a TG meeting but no doubt it will be repeated at least a dozen times

:)

Mind of a Woman Body of a Man, Life is a Bitch