Girly Girls - Born or Made?

[CaptLex]

I took a bus ride yesterday and sitting near me was a woman with a little girl on her lap (toddler size). The kid was wearing so much pink, it looked like she'd been painted with pepto bismol - hot pink hat, boots, coat, etc. My first reaction was to feel sorry for her. It immediately brought back those feelings I had as a kid when my mother would dress my sister and me in frilly, ruffled dresses and lacy things. Eww! I remember how much I hated that stuff (my sister loved it - still does), and it kind of infuriated me that this woman was forcing this stuff on her kid.

I guess what I'm saying is, once the kid is older (boy or girl), if it's what they like, that's fine. I have nothing against girly girls/women (or girly boys/men), but to force this on a child who is too young to know if she even likes it, just seems criminal to me. And I imagine this is the type of person who would give her daughter a hard time if she ever decided to stop dressing as a girl and adopted a more masculine appearance (like so many I've known). Am I being overly sensitive? Projecting my own gender issues (and childhood discomfort) on others? Am I making too much of this?

[Tamara Croft]

I think you're possibly imagining yourself as this child, as you once were and most likely bringing back memories of being forced into wearing clothes you didn't like. I think a lot of things have changed since then, I know from experience, my daughter (who is now 12) would NOT wear something if she didn't like it. From an early age, she prefered tracksuits, jeans etc... but now as shes growing up, she's dressing more like a girl ;) All her bedroom is pink, she has fluffy pillows everywhere, which she chose herself.

[Dasein9]

Ugh. I see the same thing, and I don't like it either. I also feel sorry for the boys in my neighbourhood, since what's considered appropriate for their gender seems to be narrowing as it becomes more acceptable for girls to do more types of thing. Just an example: At Hallowe'en, girls are all kinds of things, but almost all the boys in the neighbourhood are the killer in Scream, Jason, or the red Power Ranger. That's it; no diversity anymore.

I also think there may be differences in how different ethnic groups express gender. My neighbourhood's traditionally Italian, but has quite a few Dominicans and Albanians. The Dominican girls are the ones dressed like ice cream sundaes, whereas the Italian girls are a little more toned-down. I hardly ever see Albanian girls or women, compared to how present the men are on the street, but when I do, their baby clothes seem to be some of the most practical and least frothy.

[Felix]

It's probably me and my mind set but I never really liked the real girlie clothes when I was young. But I liked to see other girls looking really fem and girlie. On the other hand I liked the girls who had that tomboy thing going on too. I know what ya mean Lex when ya say it bugs ya that they are getting forced but until they get to about 8 girls just do wear what they are put in. I think once they start getting their own mind set that is when like Tamara said they develop their own tastes and some will be girlie likin all the pink stuff and some will like sports and stuff and maybe dress more toned down and maybe like a tomboy. I come into contact with both sorts in my job and it is interesting to watch the two different types develop xx Felix :hugs:

[Tristan]

I think it sucks when parents try to force things on their kids too, but I guess according to my mom by the time I was 13 months, it was a incrediable fight to get me into anything I didn't want to wear. So I think kids do let it be known earlier, but maybe we just don't always wear the fight. I know there were dresses I was forced into blah that I hated.

[bi_weird]

Yeah I scandalized my house when I announced that my male and female children will wear the same amount of pink until they start chosing their own clothes. I can't countenance boxing my children in when I know what sort of problems it can cause.
I think that some girls can really go for it, and to some extent a child can be made to like something like pink just by exposure. But I get nervous about how many girls get trapped. Lately it seems everything marketed to girls is to make them into princesses, which is fine for those who like it, but bad news for the other little girls who want to be firefighters and superheros when they play pretend. I don't like boxes.

[Xaff]

I think people shouldn't think so much about what a girl CAN wear and what a girl CAN't wear. (same with boys) I never understand why people would like to dress there daughter tottaly pink. :sad:

I mean....clothes are for yourself. It's not good to force a child in some kind of clothing. Becose it's a part of who you are. Last time I was thinking:

In the shops there a man and women place. Like it's, if you are a woman you need to get it from there. If you are a men you need to go there. Why not call them, 'tuff clothing' (now men) and 'normal clothing' (now woman). I dress myself in the clothes I wear becose I like them. So the clothes I like are on the men/boy section. Sooo..... (men's section......just like I can't wear that???)

I think people should give there kids unisex clothing. Then they can deside on there own what they would like. Even in clothing it is: girls = stay clean, boys = atventure. Look at the clothes people put on there children. With girls clothes you can be more diffecult go adventure.

[Abraxas]

The thing that sort of disgusts me, is that it starts, literally, before birth. Then when the kid is born, it's a pink blanket for the girls, a blue one for the boys... I'll bring my own, and it'll be white. Nice and neutral.
Although I can understand the reasoning for it. I mean, a very small percentage of people are trans. And it certainly must get irritating for new parents to have to constantly answer 'is it a boy or a girl' because, when babies are that young it's impossible to tell. Hell, with some kids, it's hard to tell until puberty and beyond. The only thing that would be a clue is hair (which babies don't have in great quantities) and clothing.
But yeah, it bothers me when I see little girls all gussied up with their ears pierced, fingernails painted, all that. Pierced ears is the worst, because that's a much more permanant thing. And painful.
And, yeah, it also bothers me when I see little baby boys in itty bitty leather jackets and cowboy boots (although it is adorable, haha!). Ehhhhh. It's jeans and t-shirts for my kids.

[Dasein9]

And it certainly must get irritating for new parents to have to constantly answer 'is it a boy or a girl' because, when babies are that young it's impossible to tell. Hell, with some kids, it's hard to tell until puberty and beyond.

I've got my response all ready, even though it's highly unlikely I'll ever raise an infant: "And just why do you want to know the shape of my child's genitals anyway?"

Everyone just knew I was a boy when I was an infant. Mom got sick of it, and had my ears pierced when I was 4 months old. Then everyone said, "Oh, what a handsome boy! And how hip -- you got his ears pierced!" This was in 1969 and on a military base.

[marie354]

I hope ya'll don't mind me chiming in here...
What you have to wear when you're that young just might have an effect on what you like when you get older.
I was dressed in my sister's hand-me-downs for at least my first year in this world. I only know this from pictures I've been shown over the years.
So I believe that it effected me to the extent that all I buy now is women's clothes. Which a lot of you guys would never think of buying a pair women's footie socks. (I like them though. But that's me.)

Our grandaughter, from the time she was able to say what she wanted, has only worn what she wanted. Before she got into wanting to look girley, she only wanted to wear pants or shorts and t-shirts. Of course that was natural because that's how everyone else dressed.

Now, however, she has entered the girley stage... Wanting pretty dresses, heels, makeup, etc.
I'm glad that she is doing it her way and nobody is forcing her to dress a certain way.
But I can see that this is a valid point. I was never dressed in all pink like that that I know of, but maybe I would have liked it.

[kerrianna]

Lots of people just conform to the 'norm' or project on their kids. It doesn't always work out the way they think it will. :heehee: :whistling:

My best friend's wife dressed their girl in really frilly precious princessy things, had her into make-up early on, etc. But as she got a little older she swung entirely the opposite way and became a tough little jock. Then through her teens she swung back to dolling up and now in her early twenties she's a bit of both, and works in construction holding her own. She seems to have a cool blend going on and is self assured. But that's because they did give her the freedom to grow into herself once she was old enough to assert herself.

I feel sorry for kids who are never allowed that empowerment. They get shoved into gender roles that they may never question, grow up trying to fit in the little boxes, and years later wonder why they're unhappy. Or in some cases just blindly repeat the patterns on their kids. And society in general likes to keep us all conforming so as not to upset the apple cart and carry on the mindless consumerism and obedience to authority. Parents and kids still get the 'blue and pink' message everyday.

It's too bad humans tend to operate out of fear more than hope and adventure.

[jessieblake521]

Today is different my kids used to pick out what they wanted from the time of 1 or 2 we would ask them if they like it an they sad yes or no. Me On to the other hand i remember my mother dressing me in stuff i didn't like my hole till i was 10 or12
Jessie

[ZenFrost]

That really bothers me too. My cousin just had a baby and she's insisting that absolutely everything is pink. I think babies and little kids should wear gender-neutral clothes until they're old enough to decide for themselves what they want. That way, they would avoid some of the gender problems we have. (For instance, I can't show pictures of me as a kid to people who think I'm a guy because the dresses would be a dead givaway.)