SO is asking for CDing 'boundries'

[krisinpink]

Hi Girls,

My wonderful and generally supportive GG SO has asked if I'll come up with a proposal for some CDing boundries in our world. I know how I am with dressing...I'd do it all the time if I could, and for her, although very supportive of my dressing, she would like for us to establish some 'rules' when it comes to Jacqui. I'm hoping that I can tap you girls here for some ideas, or arrangements you might have with your SO, and definately things that you've tried that didn't work in trying to strike a balance between our SOs and the girls we enjoy being.

I think that my girl is 100% ok to ask for this, in fact, it's in my best interest because although she is supportive now -even buys Jacqui little suprises every now and then- I know that if left unchecked, I'll drive her supportiveness away by overwhelming her with CD stuff, so some boundries are a good thing. She has asked that I draw up some ground rules, with some specifics, and we can sit down and talk it all over. My dilemma is that I'm at a loss for what to suggest.

I shave my legs/underarms etc and keep my toenails done..I think I can keep this. (heaven knows I love it) Additionally, with three teenaged daughters around, I don't get to dress very often, and about once a week find myself sprinting down the hallway in pumps when a car unexpectedly pulls in the drive. (my SO gets a heck of a chuckle out of watching that!) We've done some shopping with me dressed in girl jeans and shoes, so I think she'll be flexible. Maybe I should approach the creation of these 'rules' from the drab side...rather than list CD things, maybe list drab things. I've read between the lines with her enough to know that what she may really want is to have occasions where her guy is being a man with no mention of shoes, shopping, or make up. This could be out or at home -anywhere. I can stop with the innuendo about dressing in casual conversation...I think this would be a good start. I think I'd like to avoid a rigid sort of list of rules like "every Wednesday evening and alternate Saturdays" for this thing...that wouldn't work with our unpredicatble schedules, and would make dressing too clinical, and chore-like (for both of us).

Anyway, I know I'm rambling here, and for those of you who haven't been bored to death by this thread and are still reading, please post any ideas you might have on this matter, or share what you and your SO might do to keep a balance between your guy mode and your girl mode. PMs are sure welcome too! Hopefully, we can come up with a set of suggestions that will keep Jacqui in nylons and lace, and keep my SO from throwing her hands up with me.

Thanks so much,

Jacqui

[Phoebe Reece]

There is a Wives and Crossdresser's Bill of Rights on the Tri-Ess website at: http://www.tri-ess.org/Wives_CDs_BofR.html You might want to read that over as it can be a good foundation to base any boundaries on.

[Deanna2]

Hi Jacqui

You've given yourself a very hard task here. Let me start by saying that I do a bit of consulting and the projects I don't like are where the client says 'here is the situation. What do I do?' Your SO seems to have given you the situation but not told you any parameters. So you have to make them up and that is where your difficulty lies.

What does she want boundaries, rules or schedules about? Time, type, duration or amount of girliness, just name a few? In my case, my wife doesn't so much mind me wearing a skirt whether it be calf or mini length. But she is not too rapt in pink lace which I rather enjoy.

You'll have to seek some guidance from her. This has to work for both parties. Let me know how you get on.

[Amy Hepker]

Hi Jacqui,
I would let her know how you feel which I think you already have and tell her you want to come to terms with her and decide together. She maybe just wanting to know how far you want to go with the crossdressing. This could be good and it could be bad. I have had both and it is hard to tell the difference until it's to late. You are a good friend of mine Jacqui I Pray for the best for you. It's something you'll have to work out together, but I think the Tri-Ess Bill of Rights says it all.

[kathy gg]

Hmmm I really was hesitating offering advice on such a subject but I feel a few thoughts about this shoudl be said......

I think alot of times when a supportive SO brings up the subject of boundaries it is first and foremost to make sure the hubby and wife are on the same page. Secondly there is some ...how do I say this....there is trust and such to be gained when a wife has confidence that her husband has enough sense to know where the *buck stops*.

In other words women really dont' {despite what some men may think or believe} want to *control* you. What we want is for our guy to have enough control over himself to know better and know what is best for his life and his situation in life. We don't want to police our guys. We want our guys to have enough brains to do it for themself. Ask any SO on this forum and you will hear, we al just want our relationship to be resepcted.

What I wonder is how a complete stranger on this forum can help you fashion boundaries which will all come from knowing your wife. I mean, one wife may draw the line at ear piercings, another will draw the line at ..oh I dont' know the peircing of nipples?

When I was dating my husband I too wanted to know where his *common sense* lied. I did not want to list out what my boundaries were....I felt that any man worthy of being and recieving my super-supportive enthused self should handle my heart and love with care. he should know what I was looking for as far as boundaries went. I mean once he got to know who I was, what kind of person I am, where my hopes and dreams were headed.....well if he had to be told...chances are he would soon be pushing my loving accepting self off a cliff. Once he told me what his own personal limits were, then I knew that I would not be spending a lifetime of negotiating rules and boundaries like one might do with a toddler.

Your wife sounds like a very smart and clever lady....now this is actually such an opertune moment to show what a class act she is with. One who has been with her long enough to produce three teens surely knows where her heart and love and needs and day to day expectations are?

[nancy58]

I'm interested in this one, too. We're ever so slowly working out our rules, too. My wife has let me know that come spring, she will not be seen with me in public with my legs shaved. :(

[Ammdi]

Why not incorporate a special mood indicator?
Like one of those dishwasher magnets that says when the dishes are dirty or clean.

Just cover over the words for those and use your own to mean okay to dress, and I'd prefer him tonight. That way you can have another avenue of communication, without her having to say she'd rather have him tonight instead of her.... Sometimes it can be a burden to even ask for 'him' time.

So, if she has to get the message to you, at least offer a few ways where it's not a bargining session, or a big discussion.

Just an idea, that's all.

[Di]

Sounds like a wonderful wife you have there....but as for suggestions...really every relationship is different.....does she like to go out with you dressed? Clubs?....tri ess meetings? Or is it something you do at home? It really would be impossible for a stranger to give suggestions...it should be more about...what you need and what she needs. In Sher's and my case...there are no boundries......but then we have no children at home with us and we are free to be. We go out every weekend and the rest is how she juggles work and Sher time. Good Luck....sounds fantastic....it is so much fun doing it together with someone you love......and it sounds like you really care about each other...so i'm sure you can figure out what works for the two of you.

[Bernadina]

Maybe you should ask her for some suggestions. She probably has something in mind or she wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.

[Angie G]

I put angie away on the weekends and 1or 2 day a week if she is watching the grandkids it works for us :hugs:
Angie

[Brianna Lovely]

Tongue in cheek.

I think your SO is right, you should make a list, of course, I also think it should be a short one.

Perhaps all the girls on this forum, with a SO, would like to adapt a similar list for their own.

Let's see.......................................

Item One: Monday thru Friday, I will go to work in drab, if my employer requires it. My work days will be divided as follows, eight hours working to support my family, eight hours sleeping and eight hours dressing as myself.

Item Two: On weekends, one day will be dedicated to my drab self, interacting as a man, with my family. And one day will be all mine, to do as I please.

This sounds like a fair and equatable compromise, to me, giggle.

[battybattybats]

My view, personally, is what you do with your body and what you do with your time in your own time is all up to you, just as those same boundaries apply to your wife. It's the inbetween, shared possessions, shared time, shared space where negotiations must be fair and reasonable and equal.

I agree a sign for her to communicate when she might not be comfortable with it or desire him to be out is both considerate and reasonable. But in a negotiation there can be give and take, what of her self expression will she give you influence over in return? This could be a good opportunity to consider if there is anything special you might like her to wear from time to time as part of the deal?

Other things might involve giving her fair warnings if you intend to change your appearance so she has time to come to grips with it. A fair limit on spending is a good idea too, making sure that it comes from your cash and not hers or the households.

[Joni Beauman]

You would't like our arrangement, but it is simple: Joni (me) can stay, but must be out of sight. Recently, Joni was allowed in same house at same time - but on different floors. That was a sort of breakthrough moment. Joni

[Sheri 4242]

Jacqui,

There are so many things that go into the proper, healthy setting of boundaries. Before you can even try to establish them, you have got to attempt to see if you can probe to see if your SO has something specific in mind. Please allow me to ramble for a moment, and hopefully I'll end up with some coherent thoughts that might help. First, boundaries should be viewed as "moveable." They should be viewed as limits that will change with time as you both grow in understanding at different points in your lives. Second, I am convinced that in the majority of cases like you have described, the one asking for the establishment of boundaries already has some idea of what they want and is hoping you'll hit on it. Regarding this latter point, it can be very unfair to you because it is based on a hope that you'll guess (or a belief that you should know) what she has in mind. To this point, I am convinced that you should first engage in a series of talks (even short talks) to see if you can determine where she is coming from, or where she wants things to go. The onus shouldn't be entirely on you -- none of us are mind readers. If this is all left to you, you might come up with apples when she is thinking of oranges (and doesn't understand why you aren't thinking oranges). Somehow, you have got to talk and get on the same page. You don't want to go farther than you have to, and you don't want to come up short.

I think you should first establish that you want you both to be able to fully and freely communicate, and that nothing is "engraved in stone," but is subject to change by mutual agreement and growth.

Now, I, like you, have a super understanding and supportive SO!!! I was honest with her upfront, so she knew about me being a CD before we married ten years ago. Yet, she didn't know much about CDing and had to learn, study, think, and grow to reach the point she is at today.

Early on she told me she had a major problem with one thing I wore: bras. She said she didn't know why, but that she'd appreciate it if I would not wear bras, period! Well, I kept quiet for a bit, then one day a few weeks later during a light conversation I told her that I just wanted her to know that wearing bras was highly important to me! I told her I couldn't explain it, but that this was how I felt -- and how I had felt for a very long time. (I started CDing at about age 6, and by age 12 was aching to get my first training bra.) Anyway, I just told her this -- that it was something inside me that lent itself in a significant way to the totality of my second self, then I let the subject drop -- no big discussion, no argument. Well, nothing was said for about two weeks, then one day I came home and found a gift on my side of our bed. Inside was 6 or 7 bras!!! I almost cried as I read her note: if it was that important to me, then that boundary could be moved. Her only request was that I please not wear a bra when we were making love. No biggie! But, even that boundary has started to fall in recent months.

On another boundary, I told my wife a couple of years ago that I wanted us to go to Southern Comfort, or Esprit, or one of the other CD events. At first she said okay, but she quickly turned cold . . . very cold. I finally got her to talk and it all boiled down to the fact that she wasn't ready for such an event. She told me she wouldn't mind being around other SO's and talking and sharing with them. But, she wasn't ready for me to be "out and about" dressed as much as these events indicated, and she wasn't quite ready to be around a large group of CDers she didn't know. (Though she laughingly admitted that if we ran into any CDer we knew, we'd know we all were in the same boat.) Anyway, the bottom line was "no" big CD event! She was okay with me going out dressed as we had done for quite a while, but those outings were pretty safe, so she was comfortable with them. She wasn't interested in anything more! I breeched the subject the next year, with the same results. I had decided that this was one boundary that wasn't going to be moved. Then, we started planning a trip to Las Vegas -- and totally out of blue my wife says to me, "Hey, you know how you have always wanted a wedding ceremony, with you as the bride, and with us making a "second self" committment? How about doing it in Las Vegas? After all, they say that what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."

What a wife!!!!!!!

So, we're set with a chapel for our trip out west! It might not be a week-long CD event, but it is a special step!!! It will be an extremely special day!!! And, a boundary is moving!!!

I guess what I am trying to say -- and to show through examples -- is, with your SO, try really hard to find out what is at the core of her request! I'll bet she has something specific in mind! If she doesn't, it might be something simple like she wants "her man's male personna" more, or at certain times. You'll never know until you probe what is at the heart of her request and then establish the appropriate boundaries. (And, you certainly don't want to be establishing boundaries you don't have to set b/c you were guessing!)

Sorry if this rambled on, but I am convinced that much of what I said and/or related is at the heart of healthy boundaries!!!

Good luck!!! Keep us posted!!! (And feel free to msg me if I can help!)

[marie354]

Maybe you should ask her for some suggestions. She probably has something in mind or she wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.

:iagree: Maybe she wants you to set limits for yourself so you don't get lost in the "pink fog". It really is easy to lose your direction in there and walk around in circles for days in a daze.

[Rhonda Jean]

No advice, just what has worked pretty well for us. First, we've been married for nearly 30 years. She's always known, with widely varrying degrees of acceptanc and participation. About 3 years ago my CDing "needs" were at an all time high. I was wearing a bra every day under my male clothes. I'd already been wearing panties 24/7 since even before we got married. Women's clothes were openly hung in my closet. My makeup, curlers, nailpolish, etc. were openly stored in the bathroom. This didn't happen overnight, just kind of evolved over a period of time. My wife finally reached a critical point with it, probably long before she actually confronted me about it. She wanted to understand and be supportive, there were just some things she couldn't handle anymore and my ever-increasing CDing needs as well as my increasingly feminine daily presentation had her pretty shook up. We were becoming distant.

At her insistance, we had to talk about it. Something we hadn't done much of. Bottom line? She asked me to stop wearing a bra. We compromised that I'd stop wearing one to work. Shouldn't have been doing that anyway. I asked to still be able to wear one when not at work, which she agreed to. Now I rarely do that even. She asked me to move my clothes out of our closet. She didn't like seeing them every day. I now have a 20' rod upstairs that is stuffed with my clothes. Not hidden, just not in her face every day. My makeup is stored out of sight, as are shoes. There are still panties , bras, and pantyhose in my dresser drawers. All my hair stuff (curlers, curling iron, flat iron) are still under the bathroom sink. There's a bottle of nailpolish and some tinted moisturizer in my bathroom drawer. My hair is still below my shoulders and layered in a very fem style, but quite adequately disguised as a masculine style for everyday. Still wear my nails long.

The biggest change was, she told me she still wanted me to be able to enjoy it and wanted me to go out of town for two or three days whenever I wanted to fullfill my cding needs and desires. It's been great! At first I went once or twice a month. Right now I don't feel a strong desire for full-on cding, so my out of town adventures have diminished (my choice). But I know I have her support and permission anytime. She knows that when I'm out of town I'm in full fem, shopping and eating out. It took guts for her to allow this. Even after 30 years, she still worries that there's a gay component to my dressing (there's not). She's also concerned that I'll encounter a GG who really gets off on it, even though she knows I'm not looking for it.

Even after 30 years, I'm sure she wishes it'd just go away. She's resigned to the fact that it's not and has overcome a very traditional and closed-minded upbringing to achieve a level of acceptance and tolerance that works for us.

I love her. Not because she let's me wear women's clothes. I just love her. And I appreciate and understand that it's been a struggle for her to achieve this level of acceptance.

My only advice is that you not compare your SO to the most highly accepting and encouraging SO's on this board or elsewhere. I admire them, too, and sometimes I can't avoid a twinge of jealousy for their very fortunate SO's. But there's only one for me. Always will be. I don't feel shortchanged that she's not as excited about my dressing as some others seem to be about their SO's. It's just easier for some than it is for others. I appreciate that she came by it hard. Hope you are as lucky!

[Pippilotta]

Asking for some kind of boundaries very likely means that she experiences the situation as chaotic, somehow out of control, and therefore threatening. You will need to try & find out where exactly the problem lies (which might be difficult if it is mainly on the emotional side. Note: any perceived change might well be not on your side but on hers). Probe gently, let it take its due time. Of course, "boundaries" in marriage are not one-sided, or should not be. So where will she draw hers ?

[Lovely Rita]

I wish you the best on setting the boundaries. Boundaries can be good, we need them some times. They can keep things in balance but of course they must be mutually agreed to by both sides.

[Laura Jane]

However gilded the bars are on your agreed cage/prison, they are still bars and you will probably start resenting them!

Think long and hard about how much of a conformist/rebel you are. Its easy enough to agree to something when you are in one place in your life, but five years down the track, you may want different things altogether.

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Like many have said every relationship is differant . & you both need to discuss what you "both" want with the boundries. myself & my SO have done this, as it saves alot of "awkwardness" between us . i wish you both well :hugs: & hope you can come to some comprimise :hugs:

[krisinpink]

I'm sure glad to read the postings in this thread...and glad for this forum.

She and I have talked about this some, and I'm eager to continue talking about dressing in genral and about setting mutally acceptable 'boudries'.

I hope the posts keep coming in...I've certianly had some great insights provided to me here.

-Jacqui

[btmgrl6]

My view, personally, is what you do with your body and what you do with your time in your own time is all up to you, just as those same boundaries apply to your wife. It's the inbetween, shared possessions, shared time, shared space where negotiations must be fair and reasonable and equal.




So I can get implants, remove all body hair, pluck my brows,and then run all over town doing exactly as I please as long as when I am home doing the "sharing thing" I act according to that upon which my SO and I have agreed . Afterall...it is my body, and my time.
Where can I get a copy of these "rights"? I may need to pull it out and show her that my "rights" trump hers...when she's packing up her things and telling me to go "f" myself.
Over dramatic? maybe...maybe not. Sure we all have rights, in the technical sense, but when dealing with human emotions and relationships....the technical stuff might have to take seconds behind a common sense approach. Win a few,lose a few.50/50. It's not rocket science,and not something we can gleam from polls or statistics. I don't even have a SO,but common sense tells me that if I can't compromise...it probably won't work.


Steph

[suzy]

I agree with Kathy GG.

I have been married for more than three decades and my wife is supportive of my crossdressing, but she did mention as long as I didn't "let it get out of control." We talked about what she meant and basically she wants me in man mode about 1/2 the time. That's it....oh yeah and one more concession....she refuses to dance with me while I'm dressed enfemme!

When I thought about it, realistically, I want me in male mode about 50% of the time too. She will buy me feminine things and suggest that I dress up and go out. Or while we're shopping she'll suggest a feminine article of clothing and "hint" that I may like it. She enjoys picking me up lipstick or nail polish and surprising me with it.

She has suggested that I do more feminine things than I want or feel comfortable in doing. Mostly like dressing up and going out more than I am ready to do or even want to do. Maybe that was her way of "testing the waters" to see how far I would go,...I don't know, but what I do know is that I know my own boundaries and I have shown her that I am not acting with unbridled discretion.

It's only fair that our wives know where we draw the line for ourselves. Do you know how far you want to go? Are you going to transition into a full time lady, grow breasts and undergo SRS? She has a right to know, that as her husband, you have limits. In my humble opinion.:2c: :hugs:

[melissacd]

Perhaps you just start by asking her what she would like for now and see if you are comfortable with those limits. If not then discuss them further with her and see if you can either negotiate a compromise that you can both be happy with or agree to step back from the thing that you want until she is ready with the understanding that you check in regularly to see where her head is at. It sounds like you already have a good foundation for working through this with her and so keeping good communication going is the key. Respect her fears and concerns, discuss them with her, validate her truths, let her know how you feel, identify the soft limits (the ones that are negotiable over time) and the hard limits (the ones that will never change) and work with that.

Good luck
Huggs
Melissa

[Sally24]

I think she is looking for you to start the conversation so that you feel in control and not "bottled up" inside some rules of her making. I think she has asked a fair task of you.

My wife and I have agreed on a few simple rules.

1. No permanent changes to "the equipment". That's a deal breaker.

2. No permanent changes without some discussions before hand.

3. Lets not talk about Sally when there is any sexual play going on and on the days when we're planning something sexual later, she doesn't want to see Sally.

4. No kissing anyone else on the lips, not a GG, not a T-girl, and not a male. Cheating is cheating.

5. We have to have some weekends and vacations to ourselves without Sally trying to pop in and take some time for her. It's not always about her!

6. And we don't have to constantly talk about CDing. It's not our whole life, just a big part mine.

These are some basic rules that we've agreed upon. She doesn't get everything her way and doesn't try. There has to be give and take. Right now she is dealing with the lack of hair as I now eppilate my arms and legs, shave my underarms, and am working at elliminating facial hair. She doesn't like it much, but she is dealing with her feelings on that one. I try to keep my eyebrows nice but not too severe so that passing as a male is not a problem. She wants to keep the husband she married as well as be happy with her new girl friend. All three of us have to share the space of two so some days it is a tight squeeze.

Take your time.....put some thought into this. She probably wants to gauge just how fair you can be, aka, how much control you can show of yourself.

Sally

[Rachel Morley]

I think, just like the others have said, boundaries are a very personal thing, and they very much vary from one person to another.

Even if you were to set up some boundaries they are likely to move. Take me and my wife for example. I don't really have any boundaries except no hormones or SRS. However it wasn't always this way. My wife says that cding for the SO is sometimes like trying new food. You have to taste it at least 10 times before you start to get a liking for it. In the beginning I let my wife make all the decisions on where my dressing would go, how often I did it, what I did, and where I'd go whilst I was doing it. Suffice to say, she is not threatened by any of it now and actually likes me to be dressed in feminine clothes even in boy mode.

If I was you, I'd sit down together when there is no chance of interruptions, have a couple glasses of wine each (alcohol loosens inhibitions) and talk honestly and openly about what you do and don't want to see happen over the next year. Then do the same again next year. Also try not to talk about crossdressing all the time when you're making dinner or watching TV, don't let it take over your married life - let it be part of your married life.

[Elizabeth Anne]

Cannot remove arm hair, no exceptions. All other body hair, o.k.

Privacy,

We have one very special friend who knows. She was, at one time, doing my nails & electrolysis on my facial hair till she retired & sold her business. Tri-Ess members, my nail tech, & wig salon owner, of course, knows.

Cannot leave home or come home "totally dressed" in times when neighbors could be outside.
This means I can leave with everything done except wig. This is no problem for me. (I have a secure area I always stop at & put it on.)

She has a say in what I wear most of the time so I look my best when out.

Sorry, no offense to those who like & wear it, but never fire engine red lipstick.