What's the point?

[pocoyo]

Continuing my theme of "being TG sucks ass"....

Hmm how to word this?

The reason a lot of us want to be the other gender is because we either ARE the other gender or feel we are.

We want to change our physical sex to match what we feel we are inside... and live our lives as a normal male (/female).

Part of life is having relationships...

I know from experience that if you tell someone you were born a female, or are a transguy that they treat you differently than if they just thought you were a regular guy.

And though many people do... others don't, think that it is ok to live in stealth.

But if it ISN'T ok to live in stealth... then what is the point? Because you can never EVER live & interact with people as a normal regular guy, if you tell people that you were born a girl.

Hmm I guess what I'm trying to say is... unless you "lie"... there is no way....NO WAY to fully correct gender misalignment, because you will always be a compromise.

------

P.S. I can actually think of many "points" why people should transition and live as a transperson... so you don't have to answer that bit. That last sentence there ^ (the one in italics) is what I am pondering.

[CaptLex]

Okay, I think I see your point and, unfortunately, I don't have an answer to that. Not a good, satisfactory, happy answer at least. I guess I don't see it that way 'cause I don't mind being a different kind of "normal, regular guy". I don't feel less than any other kind of guy, just my own special brand, if that makes any sense, and I'm okay with that. It sounds like that's not exactly what you want, though, and I can understand that. You don't want to be special, right? You just want to be a regular guy. I get it. I just don't know how we can accomplish that.

[Kieron Andrew]

You just want to be a regular guy. I get it. I just don't know how we can accomplish that.
i dont think we can accomplish it with EVERYONE, we are not gonna please everyone for our decisions in life to be the person we feel inside........but i dont think we should hide ourselves or be any the less true to ourselves either just to please people, cos ultimately its us that gets hurt

Im the same with Capt....im not bothered about being stealth, im quite happy to be labelled a trans-man, because thats what i am & im very proud to be a transman, im not and never will be GG or GM!....so transman i am!.......in reality of course we all want to just be accepted as 'me' 'you' but unfortunately there is always gonna be someone that either knows your past or figures it out, there will be some that will deal with it and will be ok with it, and then there with be others that dont deal with it, its not their fault they are uneducated. but its also not our fault if they chose to disown us either, they are not people that you gel with on that level of trust is all

[Adam]

I live as adam and may not be stealth but i do not say im a transman eather them that no my past no it them that dont i do not tell people that dont no my past that im trans i have some freinds that dont no i was born female and i wont tell them i mean its not that they need to no.

But i dont care if someone calls me a transman eather at the end of the day im adam

geee i hope that makes sence :heehee:

[bi_weird]

Okay first off all Poc, I swear your avatar just blinked at me. I think I need to sleep more.
It's hard not to go off on a rant here, about how normal guys aren't something to aspire to be. I'm finding lately that I harbor a lot of anger towards men (and a surprising amount of sexism towards women...) and so honestly I wouldn't want any of you to become TOO much a normal guy. They have issues.
The thing that I tend to come back to is the idea of losening up all the definitions. Yes, people won't treat you like a regular guy, but lets face it,you aren't. You may be 100% male, but you lived for years as a woman, and that changes your take on things. It doesn't mean you're less male, but it does mean you're not exactly like other guys. I like the idea of working towards where being a transman is just another way to be a man, like being gay, or metro, or hating football, or being intellectual, or what not. All of those groups stand out among 'normal' men, but some get integrated better than others. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you'll never be exactly like all the other guys, but if there's more exposure to the idea then transmen can be like metros and whatnot, guys who are a little different but still guys.
Feel free to disregard this, though. I don't know how much my thoughts are applicable seeing as how I never plan to transition. I tried to type it all clearly and un-insultingly (is that a word? I think I just made it one), so assume things were meant polietly.

[Tree GG]

....Hmm I guess what I'm trying to say is... unless you "lie"... there is no way....NO WAY to fully correct gender misalignment, because you will always be a compromise.....


I believe most people live with a certain amount of stealth - even in the "normal" relationship that has no TG issues. Being totally, 100% an open book to the world about every aspect of yourself is trained out of us at an early age. Most people avoid it like the plague - they try to create the impressive of what they want to be seen as.

So I guess my take is that I can certainly understand how TG complicates finding a healthy relationship, but don't be too disappointed if it's hard to find. Even non-TG people have the same problem. Does anyone really love us for who we are or is it just who we can be for them? How many people can say they went looking for a relationship souly for what they could give to someone else?

Ouch, that's too deep for this early on a Thurs morning.

[pocoyo]

Cap - I really hope my post didn't sound offensive or anything, yes I just literally meant what you said "You don't want to be special, right?"
Yeah exactly.

I was in a pretty negative mood yesterday after talking to some friends where I felt a bit horrible because of some stuff we were discussing about one of my friends thinking I'm GM, and didn't get to really explain the whole situation to them but I just had to get out of there before making the situation clear because it was doing my head in. But the subject of this thread was irritating me/playing on my mind. Sorry if it sounded horrible or negative though, I was just upset. Usually I would probably find a positive solution to it or something hehe!

Kieron - I like what you said and it makes a lot of sense. :happy:

But the thing I don't get is... well... the whole point for some people is that they feel they are a boy yeah? A real proper actual boy (basically a GM born with the slightly wrong body). So why is it not ok for them to call themselves/think of themselves and present themselves as a gm?

Well perhaps it is to some people in some situations. *pondering again*

Adam - haha that does make sense. I like your attitude :happy:
You're just you lol

Bi - hehe I wouldn't blink at you, I'd probably wink at you ;)
Heeey some men are horrible.... but there are lots and lots of lovely ones.
Basically.... I think there are some nice people and some horrible people, regardless of gender :) That's what I always think and say anyway.

Yeah I am lol! (Like other guys). If I transitioned I would just be a totally normal guy.
Mind you.. what IS normal? :heehee:

Hmm I haven't really "lived for years as a woman" (ewww you said "woman" I've never been and never will be one of THOSE lol!!)
I've been a girl... or tried to be, but I also had a basically male/unisex upbringing and have lived for chunks of my life as a guy. So I've either been Unisex or Guy for the most bits of my life really. And sometimes being a girl/young person.
I don't think my social conditioning is actually any different to that of a sensitive young genetic man of my age.

I do like what you're saying about being a transguy as being like another type of guy (like Cap says) like... "I'm not just a guy, I'm a transguy" sort of thing.

Hehehe I love the little disclaimer... I didn't find it at all insulting :D

Tree - wow thats such a good point. Thank you. Yes of course!! There are issues and privacy and all sorts in any relationship. And at the end of the day we're all just people.
You're so right :happy:

[Kieron Andrew]

Kieron - I like what you said and it makes a lot of sense. :happy:

But the thing I don't get is... well... the whole point for some people is that they feel they are a boy yeah? A real proper actual boy (basically a GM born with the slightly wrong body). So why is it not ok for them to call themselves/think of themselves and present themselves as a gm?

Well perhaps it is to some people in some situations. *pondering again*
yes i feel like a proper boy, ive told you this before....with the wrong genitals, and i do present myself as male in ALL situations 24/7......but for me and me only, i was not born genetic male so therefore i and i only would feel wrong to say that i am a GM, i would feel like a fraud, if someone asks me whats the deal then i would tell them the truth cos thats just me, just the way i am........i feel far more comfortable with telling them i am a transman because that is actually the whole truth and nothing to be ashamed of, ive got to a point my life i cant hide it anymore, i am very proud as i said of being a transman, because i feel being born identifying as female actually makes me a better man because i have gotten to experience life from both sides of the coin, if & when people dont accept me once i come out to them as transman, then they are not the friend i thought they were to begin with......like Capt so very well put i am just another type of guy but i am not a genetic guy, i am a transguy/transman, also i dont pass in all situations either so its easier just to be honest

Like i said this is just MY opinion, no one elses, its not set in stone how any of us feel or how we deal with situations, we all have to find our own way and this is mine and it works for me

[CaptLex]

Cap - I really hope my post didn't sound offensive or anything, yes I just literally meant what you said "You don't want to be special, right?"
Yeah exactly.
Nah, your post wasn't offensive. Actually, it sounded to me like you were dealing with conflicting emotions and were trying to sound it all out.


I was in a pretty negative mood yesterday after talking to some friends where I felt a bit horrible because of some stuff we were discussing about one of my friends thinking I'm GM, and didn't get to really explain the whole situation to them but I just had to get out of there before making the situation clear because it was doing my head in. But the subject of this thread was irritating me/playing on my mind. Sorry if it sounded horrible or negative though, I was just upset. Usually I would probably find a positive solution to it or something hehe!
There's no need to apologize or to edit your original post. I think you correctly conveyed what you felt at the time, and this helps me (and maybe others) understand just how much this bothers and/or confuses you. If you had waited till you calmed down or cheered up to post it, we may not get the whole sense of anguish this may be causing.

Anyway, I hope at least some of these responses have been helpful - even if there are no easy answers. Just remember, whatever is right for you, is what's right - regardless of how anyone else feels about it for himself. Yeah, some of us are in the same boat, but being trans is still a somewhat individual thing - it's not the same for everyone, so there isn't just one right way.

But you knew that. And I knew you knew that. And you knew that I knew that you knew that . . . :p

[Kieron Andrew]

But you knew that. And I knew you knew that. And you knew that I knew that you knew that . . . :p
:rolleyes: ive got a headache after reading this sentence lol:tongueout

[Marcie Sexton]

...I think not...perhaps we can't get out and shout to the world I'm Transgendered...but we can live our life to the fullest...seeking and fulfulling our lives for our betterment and happiness...

after all if not being able to shout to the world our true feeling, isn't our entire lives a lie...

Don't we have to bite our tongue daily about company policy, co workers, local laws, neighbors, heck the list goes on...

even if I get out only once a month, I am still happy, I have a love of my life, and most important I love myself...for who I am and what I am !!!

[bi_weird]

Hmm I haven't really "lived for years as a woman" (ewww you said "woman" I've never been and never will be one of THOSE lol!!)


Hehe Poc I love you. I forgot how much I hate that word, though I don't like "man" much either. I just don't want to grow up. Maybe that's why I'm so andro...I want to stay a little kid forever, and for little kids gender isn't a huge issue.


I don't think my social conditioning is actually any different to that of a sensitive young genetic man of my age.
That may be true, but how 'normal' is a guy who describes himself as sensitive? I don't mean to be insulting here, I'm just working from the stereotypes that guys perpetuate amongst themselves. Guys who actually display emotions to people other than their girlfriends (a phenomenon which seems to lead to guys like my ex and my best friend, who are sappier than than their girls) tend to get put in a different category than other guys by everyone. It's still a way to be a guy...it's just a different guy. I think it's entirely possible, depending on where you chose to live and somewhat on your luck in who you meet, to live in such a way that transman is just like sensitive guy, metro guy, and normal-loves-football-and-beer guy, that you'll be treated just as another type of guy. But that last category seems to define 'guy' for most people, so you swell the ranks of guys who are a little less masculine and a little more fun to be around. Imho, that is.
Btw,do you Europeans have an equivalent of our American football guys? Is that how soccer fans are? I'm curious.

[pocoyo]

Hehe Poc I love you. I forgot how much I hate that word, though I don't like "man" much either. I just don't want to grow up. Maybe that's why I'm so andro...I want to stay a little kid forever, and for little kids gender isn't a huge issue.
Hehehe!



That may be true, but how 'normal' is a guy who describes himself as sensitive? I don't mean to be insulting here, I'm just working from the stereotypes that guys perpetuate amongst themselves.
Wow... loads of my male friends do. I'm talking straight ones here.
It goes without saying that my gay male friends (how I see myself) do too.
I wonder if it's a country/cultural thing? Or like a different "scene" thing? (E.g. most of my friends are musicians/artists/emo/geeks/gay/metrosexual etc).

Hey anyway that's besides the point. I probably wouldn't describe myself as that in day to day life... I was just saying to you guys, (my sweet close friends who I'm really open with,) the type of person I am "a sensitive young man" lol! Like a general explanation of that kind of person. I doubt I'd go round saying that to my mates hahaha

Also perhaps it's a posh thing (LOL I am NOT at all posh, but some of my friends are and it rubs off).
Posh men say "girly" things all the time. (Which I love when I hear them! It's so sweet!)
e.g. Hugh Grant saying "oops a daisys" (:lol2:)


Btw,do you Europeans have an equivalent of our American football guys? Is that how soccer fans are? I'm curious.
Like an equivilant to jocks? Er not really. I guess there are Chavs but they are a different species altogether he he!!
Football (as in soccer) fans can be really horrible. Some are cool though.

[Kate Simmons]

Poc, From my standpoint, the point is to be the best person you can possibly be. I accept everyone for who they are whether guy,girl, Martian or whatever. The person, the person, the person is what counts, is now and ever shall be with me.:hugs:

[pocoyo]

Awesome, I totally agree... be the best person you can be!
It is the person that counts :happy:

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Theres so many discriminations in the world, on various themes, people should be allowed to be what they wanna be . As long as that person is happy what harm is it doing ?? :happy:

[happyfish]

But if it ISN'T ok to live in stealth... then what is the point? Because you can never EVER live & interact with people as a normal regular guy, if you tell people that you were born a girl.

Hmm I guess what I'm trying to say is... unless you "lie"... there is no way....NO WAY to fully correct gender misalignment, because you will always be a compromise.


Who wants to live life as a normal, regular anything? :tongueout:
On a more serious note, I think Tree's right in that we're never completely true with everyone. To be so would be...hard, and you'd spend half your life giving explanations. Life's just full of compromise and having to hold your tongue in certain company, whether it's not saying in a group of Christians that you think God is stupid or not telling everyone that you're a transperson. (Um, no offense to any Christians out there. It's just an example.) Sure, that gets more complicated in a closer relationship with someone, but if they can't accept you for who you are...is it worth keeping up a relationship based on lies?
So basically I stole ideas from everyone else and put them in my own words. >.>;;;

[bi_weird]

Wow it's strange to think of you Brits not having guys like the American football guy...
But yeah there's prolly a cultural difference there. At least in our age group (You're only a few years older, right?), guys here might act sensitive if it's them and their girl, or a few close friends, but groups of guys...don't.
I've lost whatever else I was going to say. Omw I need to sleep. Will someone do my thermo homework?

[false_dichotomy]

I know what you mean... I want to be accepted as fully male, by everybody. I dont' ever again want to hear some ignorant b**ch say that "I'm sorry, but now that I know, I just can't see you as a man until you can whip out a d**k at me." And I'm a modest enough person that I would'nt even have done it if I was wearing one at the time... BUT, the idea of lying and hiding my body anymore that I already have had to do makes me feel awful. I'm actually a recovered self-injurer, and I was having a conversation with another recovered friend, who was talking about the fact that she no longer has to lie about or hide her body after 2 years without hurting herself, and so now she's more sociable and friendly than she's ever been. And it made me so sad, that even after quitting SI I still have plenty about my body to hide. I don't feel remottely more sociable or friendly. I still want to lock myself in my room and never leave. And it frustrates me SO much...

Sorry, that kind of turned into a rant/vent... but I really did mean to be on-topic!