Educate me

[Julie York]

O.K. educate me. I want to understand.

I know there is not that many in numbers as the MtF side so maybe your representation isn't erm...representative?

But I am having trouble understanding the mind set.

The MtF side has a huge range of emotions and motivations when it comes to the whats and whys and sexual orientation and so you can't get your head round whether it is all about being gay, or wanting to be a woman, or wanting to express some feminine side etc. It's a big mishmash of reasons and desires that crossover a big range of what people want to achieve so it is hard to understand.

And I am beginning to see a bit of a similar thing on the FtM side.

Most of you seem to be very much Tg in that you wish to be a man, rather than seeing it as an element of the whole you. And that the expression of being a male and presenting yourself as being male is what would make you happy. And yet that conflicts with other things like wanting a male partner and maybe kids etc.

But surely, you're missing something. Or rather, I would like to hear your views on this....

Say for example..Marla GG and Angel (rachel)...and Kathy GG and whatsname:D .....they have found someone who they can love and allows them to be themselves and express themselves without having to turn the 'normal' world upsides down and in their faces.

Isn't it possible to imagine a world where you play the game during the day and have a partner that loves and cares for the whole of you? Even if it is a secret? Because they get it, they understand, they don't mind?

[Kieron Andrew]

Isn't it possible to imagine a world where you play the game during the day and have a partner that loves and cares for the whole of you? Even if it is a secret? Because they get it, they understand, they don't mind?
for me that isnt enough because i dont see myself at TV i see myself as TS in the wrong body with the wrong genitals....yes i have a partner who is mtf post op, and yes i am ftm pre op TS, but she is very much the woman and i the man in our daily lives well as private....i dont want to be stealth.....i hope this is what you meant lol, if its not then let me know and i will try to answer better lol

[Julie York]

There is no correct answer.

[Kieron Andrew]

There is no correct answer.
i realise that BUT i wasn't actually sure what you were asking lol, i just interpretted it that way lol

[ZenFrost]

I'm not sure I understand you question entirely but I'll try to answer it anyway.

I do see my male side as an element of my whole self, but it is the primary element I'm composed of. I'm part male and part female, but my male part is several times bigger than my female part. Kinda like Eddie Izzard said, I'm all man but with some extra woman on the side.

I don't see it as 'playing a game' or putting on a different face, for me it's just that the way I am on the inside doesn't match what I am on the outside.

As for the having a partner that understands, I think I'm more asexual than anything else. While it might be nice having a girlfriend that understands me, I generally prefer to not have any SO at all. So the "stealth by day, truth by night with a partner" concept doesn't really work for me.

[Julie York]

Well see that's what I was asking about. It seems to be more a TG with this group than being able to go about your life as a woman and this 'thing' is something on the side, (which a lot of MtF are able to do).

[Kieron Andrew]

Well see that's what I was asking about. It seems to be more a TG with this group than being able to go about your life as a woman and this 'thing' is something on the side, (which a lot of MtF are able to do).
yes your right most are TG/TS here, with the odd exception of one or two of us that live dual roles

[Julie York]

Why is that do you think? The brain is a brain, so how come the male brain can have so many divisions of deviation and grades of femininity and yet you're saying it's mostly all or nothing for a FtM?

I don't expect a deep discussion on brain technology but it is an interesting philosophical question.
#
Unless you know the answer.:D

[pocoyo]

Why is that do you think? The brain is a brain, so how come the male brain can have so many divisions of deviation and grades of femininity and yet you're saying it's mostly all or nothing for a FtM?

I don't expect a deep discussion on brain technology but it is an interesting philosophical question.
#
Unless you know the answer.:D

Sorry I'm too tired to make sense but.....

.....some of your questions may be answered in this thread (and some other similar ones) :) :

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53446


Basically... the probable main reason you see so many mtfs vs comparitively few ftms is because it's pretty normal these days for a female-bodied person to wear traditionaly "male" clothes. But when a male puts on something remotely girly he's seen as "crossdressing". So its sometimes more difficult for a female-bodied person to show or even realise they have gender issues... and so the ones that seek help or others like them are usually the ones with stronger gender issues (TG/TS as opposed to crossdressers).
..

[Sierra Evon]

Sorry I'm too tired to make sense but.....

.....some of your questions may be answered in this thread (and some other similar ones) :) :

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53446


Basically... the probable main reason you see so many mtfs vs comparitively few ftms is because it's pretty normal these days for a female-bodied person to wear traditionaly "male" clothes. But when a male puts on something remotely girly he's seen as "crossdressing". So its sometimes more difficult for a female-bodied person to show or even realise they have gender issues... and so the ones that seek help or others like them are usually the ones with stronger gender issues (TG/TS as opposed to crossdressers).
..
I'm with Poc , on that one ditto " " " :yt: I just know that I have strong gender issues I'm more TG , T-girl , that a CDer !!!!!!!! :straightface:

[happyfish]

I'm also with poc.
I wouldn't say, personally, that I'd really want to live as a male completely for the rest of my life. I have the feeling that I'm about half of each (male and female) in my head, depending on the day, so to live solely as either doesn't make sense to me. It's just that I've been ignoring the male part of myself for most of my life. So now that I know that it's there I want to explore it as much as possible so I can figure out what I'm going to do with it.

[CaptLex]

Isn't it possible to imagine a world where you play the game during the day and have a partner that loves and cares for the whole of you? Even if it is a secret? Because they get it, they understand, they don't mind?
Yes, absolutely, if this were a game . . . but it's not - at least not for me. I played that game for over 25 years (trying to live my life as a woman) and it was a game I couldn't win. Not only was I unhappy because I had to keep my real self hidden away, but I had to stop having intimate and romantic relationships because in order to have these I had to put on an act and play a unrealistic part. So your last sentence (highlighted above) could never apply to my situation anyway.


It seems to be more a TG with this group than being able to go about your life as a woman and this 'thing' is something on the side.
You're right, Julie - for me being a guy is not a "thing" on the side, it's the core of who I am. And even though I still consider myself part female, that's not a thing on the side either - I see it as a small percentage of the whole me.


Why is that do you think? The brain is a brain, so how come the male brain can have so many divisions of deviation and grades of femininity and yet you're saying it's mostly all or nothing for a FtM?
I couldn't explain it any better than the way Pocoyo put it, so I won't try. And I hope his explanation makes sense to you and answers your question. If not, we can keep discussing it. Questions are always welcome.

BTW, I commend you for asking such honest and thought-provoking questions. I think it's great when all the members on this site (MtF, FtM, GG, etc.) can come together, ask, share and discuss. Hopefully these discussions can bring better understanding among us and not divisions. Thanks! :^5:

[false_dichotomy]

Why is that do you think? The brain is a brain, so how come the male brain can have so many divisions of deviation and grades of femininity and yet you're saying it's mostly all or nothing for a FtM?

I don't expect a deep discussion on brain technology but it is an interesting philosophical question.
#
Unless you know the answer.:D

I don't know that I'm answering the question you asked, but...

I see myself as a feminine guy. I'm trying to ditch the all-or-nothing, polar thinking I used to have real problems with (hence my username; a "false dichotomy" is a logical fallacy in which a person sees only two poles where there is actually a continuum). I think that my self-perception as a "feminine guy" would fall in some kind of in-between area rather than Mr. Manly Man Sir. You'd think that if I thought of myself as feminine, it would be a helluva lot easier for me to just live "as a woman"... but it's not. It's freaking hellish for me to present that way. I see myself as a guy, fundamentally... you could say that I'm so secure in my masculinity that I'm not afraid to act feminine, if that makes sense. I don't think it does, though. :o

In short, I think that there actually is a continuum or a series of gradations in biologically female gender-variant people. Even in this thread, there's plenty of evidence for that. However, like everyone's been saying, there's a certain degree of "masculine" traits that society allows in women, more than the amount of "feminine" traits allowed in men. Which means that only those of us with actual gender dysphoria tend to end up on support boards like this; if you feel comfortable as a woman, no matter how you present, then there's generally a great deal more support from the general population than for those of us who actually self-identify as men. Meaning that those people don't end up at places liek this because they don't need them.

[Felix]

great question and extremely thought provoking :eek: For me it's like more and more I'm saying to the world this is me, this is really me. I have the female elements in me but I am predominantly male. It's not about playing a game it's about being real being me. When I think of wearing female clothes then that is when I feel that I was playing a game cos it wasn't the real me and I've done that for many years to keep others happy. In the last year I have been coming out of myself and presenting as male I feel so much happier because that is what I feel inside and now I am letting it out. No more playing games.
I have a very understanding partner and I don't play games there I am who I am 24/7 with her. I take the male role most definitely and Yachica the female without a doubt and it works wonderfully. I count myself extremely lucky :happy: Dunno if I've answered this but I've tried in my own little way xx Felix :hugs:

[pocoyo]

You'd think that if I thought of myself as feminine, it would be a helluva lot easier for me to just live "as a woman"... but it's not. It's freaking hellish for me to present that way. I see myself as a guy, fundamentally... you could say that I'm so secure in my masculinity that I'm not afraid to act feminine,

Haha that does make perfect sense!
But then it would to me because that is basically exactly how I feel :happy:

I often describe myself as:

I'm a young man who likes being male but sometimes enjoys dressing to be feminine. With a (currently) mainly female body.

And I'm forever saying "I feel I identify more with being a girly boy, rather than being a boyish girl, and there is a difference."

Some people do find that hard to understand though lol!

.