that society word ..again

[btmgrl6]

this society and acceptance thing keeps rearing it's ugly head. we hear a lot of.." I don't go out in public because.....we've gotton such a bum rap by "society"... Doesn't it seem odd that for the most part,those who venture out,clubs,shopping ,restaurants,etc usually come back to report a pretty uneventful to an actual pleasant experience? I haven't seen many terrible experiences posted in this forum,and one would think that if someone were to have had a truly bad experience... we'd hear about it here, and fast!
I am sure there have been incidents but they seem to be the exception and not the rule. Is the dreaded society changing? Do we use the society word as an excuse for our own personal fears as to why we dare not venture out? Any thoughts?

Steph

For those who don't know about me..i am an in transition tg person. I work,shop,play and live as a female 24/7. I don't pass more often than I do,and I have been read a lot of times. I try to be honest and straight forward. I don't tout myself as a champion for for the transgendered (or any other such group). I will however stand up for myself and others if they so desire.I can be outspoken, but can be made to look at things your way...if you catch me on a good day. I realize that not everybody can just pop out of the closet for personal or other reasons. Personally I am past the fear of going out in public. My philosophy.. they can kill me but they can't eat me.

We can cut to the chase if we leave out the standard ...I can't because of family,friends,job. In those cases,my next question would be.. what if you were away from those things? Out of town

[battybattybats]

I know society is a problem. But it just won't chnage by itself while we hide waiting. Most people fear of society is worse than society itself.. then with some small country towns I'd advise a big dose of caution.

Safety first, then social activism!

[noname]

Ah... Society. Well it depends. Sure you can go the mall, or the grocery store and most often will be very uneventful. This shows you can wear what you want with in reason. BUT, family and job are two different things. Family may or maynot be accepting, but they are kind of stuck with you. You stand to lose friends, and a job well, I imagine there are very few jobs that wouldn't find a reason to get rid of you. It's this job thing that is the most controlling. I think many of us hide because really, what if we ran into someone at work?

[Bobbie cd]

Ah... Society. Well it depends. Sure you can go the mall, or the grocery store and most often will be very uneventful. This shows you can wear what you want with in reason. BUT, family and job are two different things. Family may or maynot be accepting, but they are kind of stuck with you. You stand to lose friends, and a job well, I imagine there are very few jobs that wouldn't find a reason to get rid of you. It's this job thing that is the most controlling. I think many of us hide because really, what if we ran into someone at work?

I would have to agree with this.
One of the biggest fears for me is being out and running into someone from my workplace. It would be incredibly awkward, to say the least. Fortunately, I don't think it would lead to me being fired, but I would rather not risk that if I can at all avoid it.

[marie354]

Yea... Societies views... It will be a long time till most understand that we really are harmless and "girls just want to have fun".
That's the bigest hurdle for me, and I know that a lot of that is only in my head. But where I live is a small town and it's hard not to know what is going on around you.
It'll be fun when I do come out though.

[Toyah]

I work away from home most of the time and live out of hotels.
In answer to your question I really have no desire to venture out in public except for very specific events. For me going shopping dressed has no attraction whatsoever I dont enjoy shopping at the best of times and see no point in spending time dressing to go to the shops.
I guess I do not see myself as part of society more as apart from society I enjoy what I do I like it when others do to society would either ignore me or notice me either is not good

[btmgrl6]

Ok... I guess some of you didn't catch my little disclaimer at the end of the thread......"with the exception of family,friends, and job.

[btmgrl6]

Let me add that the purpose of this thread is not to ridicule anyone, or say that they are chicken or that the fear that they have is unfounded. iam asking if the fear of what say...strangers might think of them personally (not friends,family,job) is what keeps them from venturing out. For those of us that have no desire.. this thread really doesn't apply. I am mostly addressing those who would like to have the freedom to go out.
The word society is huge,and while we all deal with society on an everyday basis,and most of us at least try and conform to acceptable social behavior...isn't it more of a guideline rather than hard and fast rule? if everybody acted the same....i can't even imagine what this world would be like.
As I mentioned. I am out. I live in a big city,I travel..New York,Chicago,Miami,and I do it enfemme. I am not bragging,but have a point that I would like you to ponder. I look at this as dealing with little bitty bits of society on a daily basis... not society as a whole. And in dealing with these itsy bitsy pockets of society.. I have discovered that for the most part they couldn't care less that i am a guy dressed as a girl.. I think I am more of a curiosity than a threat. I have had my share of jeers and laughs, but i don't think any more or less than any other minority group. So... is society changing? or is it that "society" is not really this huge monster looking to gobble up and destroy those who are different or that do not conform to the norm? Is our fear justified? Are we fired,robbed,stabbed, shot,harrassed,or beaten more than any other minority group? Do the fears that others feel and voice (either real or imagined) in these forums help to validate our own fear? (real or imagined). I hear a lot of talk about this sorid beast called "society",and keep a watchful eye but, I've yet to see him materialize and swallow up any ner-do -wells such as I. Is he a myth? Does he protect us from our own insecurities? Or is his real purpose to keep us in check?

Steph

[Nicole]

Very well put. I sometimes generalize too much about the society equation because of my own fears and uncertainties. I have decided not to speculate about it anymore. I am a part of society too, so I can't badmouth it completely.

[Casey Morgan]

Do we use the society word as an excuse for our own personal fears as to why we dare not venture out?

Personally, that's close to what's going on but it's not quite it. I know how society may react and I'm not ready to face that rejection just yet (looong story).

[Emma England]

For me, it is not society that I care about.

It is the family and jobs that I worry about most.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

For me society does not matter either, I do care a lot about family and friends though. If I didn,t care about that I would be dressed full time as that is how I feel most comfortable.

[Kate Simmons]

What society "wants" is the least of my worries. I've already paid the price for personal expression, so bring 'em on. What are the odds? So many billion to one? Whatever. I think the better question for me to ask is"Do I accept society?" That's highly debatable but I'm working on it.:rolleyes:

[KimberlyS]

To answer the questions in short see directly below. For the long winded answer below that.

...venture out.... pleasant experience? Yes, once i got by the nerves.

...society changing? Yes, slowly and mostly younger generations.

Do we use the society word as an excuse for our own personal fears as to why we dare not venture out? Yes I think so. Fear of the unknown is one of the greatest fears. I tell those that truly want to get out to just get out of town and do it. But for those that do not want to get out do not feel forced to get out. Enjoy your time at home or where ever you CD. We are all different.

Any thoughts? See below.

For me, I guess when I talk about society and acceptance, I am talking about is the influence of the past few generations of people and how they have raised and taught their children, who are our parents and us, the knowledge, beliefs, standards, morals, behaviors that make us up. It is the "teaching old dogs" saying. And Yes old dogs can be taught new tricks, but it is much harder than teaching new dogs in general. And when things change in society it is mostly the younger generations that are changing at least at first.

We talk of changing society. I think society is changing thoughts about the TG community in general. Some areas more than others. Some of the old dogs have learned to accept. Just look at the acceptance of some of our wifes (and I am not saying our wifes are old dogs). But ,IMO, most of the change that will happen will be down the road. In the schools it is becoming more and more acceptable to dress differently and look different than the "Norm". There has always been some rebel group. More recent there was punk and other groups. Now it is more retro, goth, piercing, another others. And some of this is reaching into the grade schools.

I also think that the general society is more accepting that we think it is, as long as what you are doing does not directly affect them. At least that has been my experience. People will just shake their heads and say "what ever", or make even call you a name and then move on.


For me, it is not society that I care about.
It is the family and jobs that I worry about most.

I so agree with Emma because I do think society is more accepting than we think they are. But my wife may not agree with that. So by my choice, most of my CDing is away from the small town we live and work in. Because interaction with people we know, live and work with starts to become more personal to them and IMHO decreases their acceptance in general.

I have been going out since about 2000 to restaurants, shopping, walks, etc. and a couple of clubs. I have not had any problems. And initially I was far from passing but now have a more blending look. I have yet to have a bad encounter. But I also have stayed mostly in the general public type of locations, in safer places in the "good" areas of town, places with people, no places with just kids. Tn malls I do not confront kids and try to steer away from large groups of kids or of families. For kids and families I try to keep exposure to a passing glances. I just go about my business for the most part, but also try to stay aware of my environment to avoid some possible situations, but not look like I am avoiding. A mother with kids is not the person you want to confront in most any situation and you do not want to deal with her in the lingerie department. When out to eat I keep away from family restaurants or try to sit away from families with young kids to keep any interaction to a minimum. Now I do not completely avoid interaction, but try to be sensible about any interaction. My wife would say something different. I want to be accepted for who I am seen as or a person in the crowd, not start a grass roots movement.

The biggest thing in my opinion is that I am out of town which allows me to be more myself, more comfortable being out and more relaxed. And also keeps running into someone I know do a minimum. I am just another person in the crowd to most people, even if they do see me or question if I am a male in femme clothes. It also allows me to do my little part in expanding acceptance and some times do some one on one education. And out of town allows me to have a minimum possibility of affect on my family and the life I have chosen to live.

And why do we get a "bum rap". IMO a lot has to do with the how closeted TG's are. Society mostly sees the bad ones that are doing something wrong. Then the media gets it and they sensationalize to to make it sound better or should I say sound worse, so they get more viewers or readers.

KimberlyS-CD
Joe in a skirt

Standard disclaimer, stolen with permission of Marlena: Going out of the house was right for me, it may or may not be right for you. If you've got no desire to leave the house, that's fine, I'm not trying to push you out the door. But for those who've been yearning to do so, I just want to let you the world may not be as scary a place as you think.

[Emma England]

In England, society is tolerant.

I know this as I have gone out dressed to a busy high street (I was shopping for more clothes at the time!).

Several hundred people must have seen me (all strangers). Not one reaction.

I find it easy to do this in front of strangers than to think about what family and friends might say.

The most important thing is to look respectable. Dress like a hooker and you will get distasteful looks (which is understandable as I myself would not want to see this).

Kimberly, a lot of what you say is true. But why not let kids see you crossdressed? The more youngsters that see what is going on in the world, the more open-minded they may become later on in life.

I think it is just a matter of time before both men and women can wear whatever clothes they like. But too many closet cd's are unable to see that - which is a shame.

[KimberlyS]

.... Kimberly, a lot of what you say is true. But why not let kids see you crossdressed? The more youngsters that see what is going on in the world, the more open-minded they may become later on in life.


Emma, I do not completely avoid kids. But I am not doing a group hug either. :gh: :gh: In fact it is next to impossible to avoid kids and families with kids walking through a mall on a Friday night. I just try to pick my exposure. If I can avoid larger groups of teens easily I will at times. But I am not going to run away either or go way out of my way. I also do not want to be walking down the mall or some where looking like I am trying to avoid people as that would just draw attention. Again I try to pick my exposure if possible but also just go about my business like everyone else that is there. An examples, I will walk straight at a group of teens versus two or three teens that are being a bit more outgoing and loud. A large group of kids is coming down my side, I may migrate to the other side, decide that I want to look into a store before I meet up with them, or just continue as I am going. I have been in lingerie departments with women, women with children, families, couples, groups of teens. I have even had gals ask me questions when I was looking around in male mode. But I try not to push things too much. I guess you could say at times I get a feel of people, especially mothers, of them being uncomfortable with my presence. I do not feel that some places are the time or the place to push my CDing on others. So I either migrate to a different area, or move on and come back later.

My goal is to be out and enjoy myself, not to be an activist. Being out and helping to advance acceptance is secondary no matter which mode or presentation I am in. In general I just try to be another blank face in the crowd to most people. And I try to not be pushing my CDing on those I do interact with. In my opinion we will gain a lot more acceptance with good every day interactions with people. If my trip through the mall has already pre-announced my arrival to those I will be walking by half way down, they already have their defenses up. I want to start them with a blank slate. If they see a guy in femme clothes walking through the mall shopping as they glance at me as we walk by each other and maybe make eye contact. And keep walking, I consider that a good encounter. Even if they turn to take a second look after I am by. The store window are good for checking that out.

KimberlyS-CD

Standard disclaimer, stolen with permission of Marlena: Going out of the house was right for me, it may or may not be right for you. If you've got no desire to leave the house, that's fine, I'm not trying to push you out the door. But for those who've been yearning to do so, I just want to let you the world may not be as scary a place as you think.

[Lovely Rita]

I know that I make society more a boogey man than it really is. In fact, I would venture to say that society is probably more afraid of us then we should be of it.
I know that in the circle of friends, guys don't even want to get caught admiring us for fear of repercussions. Most of it is definitely in our heads.

But then we do have to live with our heads, which is the dillemma.

[Emma England]

I know that I make society more a boogey man than it really is. In fact, I would venture to say that society is probably more afraid of us then we should be of it.
I know that in the circle of friends, guys don't even want to get caught admiring us for fear of repercussions. Most of it is definitely in our heads.

But then we do have to live with our heads, which is the dillemma.

Would chopping off your head be any better then? :D :eek:

[btmgrl6]

Thank you
I think There were a lot of great answers to a tough question. There was some real food for thought. Example... The question of tolerance from the younger generation. For many that have been crossdressing for a number of years and for those who are getting a bit older .....could it be that we base our feelings on what we think that our own generation might feel towards us?
I personally feel that the younger ones are more tolerant of more things. Might it also be possible that the older generation (as it has aged and matured) has become more tolerant?
Baby steps!

Steph