In the Crossfire

[megan163]

I was in a business meeting with two ladies today when the conversation turned casual. One mentioned how many of her clients it the IT industry were crossdressers. They made comments about how "their idea of comfort is sweats, x-dressers idea is a nightie." I just stayed silent on the topic biting my lip not to say anything. Anyone else find themselves in the middle of similar conversation and feeling like you betrayed yourself. I wish I had said something in defense of dressing. Not that they said anything negative. Just wish I had courage to say what I felt.

[melissacd]

I was sitting down at a meeting with my client to help advise them on a software purchase that they were considering. There were four sales people in attendance, two males and two females. One of the female sales persons said that their son started shaving his legs for swimming. The other female said, yeah I heard some males do that and then wear women's clothes and commented on how gross and silly men in women's clothes looked. The all four of the sales people started laughing and making jokes about cross dressers saying all the nasty things that the uninformed and ignorant say about a subject they do not understand.

Needless to say that company did not make a sale of their software that day and will never be recommended by me. Their staff need to take sensitivity training.

[megan163]

I was sitting down at a meeting with my client to help advise them on a software purchase that they were considering. There were four sales people in attendance, two males and two females. One of the female sales persons said that their son started shaving his legs for swimming. The other female said, yeah I heard some males do that and then wear women's clothes and commented on how gross and silly men in women's clothes looked. The all four of the sales people started laughing and making jokes about cross dressers saying all the nasty things that the uninformed and ignorant say about a subject they do not understand.

Needless to say that company did not make a sale of their software that day and will never be recommended by me. Their staff need to take sensitivity training.

I just don't get why so many still look upon us as a joke. I'd say we look no more silly than GGs who wear sports gear like loose fitting T-shirts and baggy shorts or sweats. I've seen plenty in mannish attire and no one seems to make fun of them.

[Eva Diva]

I'm a firm believer in the "Discretion is the better part of valour" theory. Enlightening people, when it is actually possible, takes time. A business meeting is no time to be making the world safe for men in camisoles.

[SandyR]

Wow! Been in IT for 21 years, never had that kind of meeting. The wife had a conversation with coworkers about "guys who shave there legs". Seemed all the women thought it was "borderline Gay". They all know me and it would shock them to see my nice clean shaved legs, might set them straight! heheheh....

Kisses....

SandyR

[noname]

I just don't get why so many still look upon us as a joke. I'd say we look no more silly than GGs who wear sports gear like loose fitting T-shirts and baggy shorts or sweats. I've seen plenty in mannish attire and no one seems to make fun of them.

I don't understand it either, they are just wearing the blinders of being sexist. I'll tell you what looks rediculous, is those freeking lamb skin/fur boots they wear this skinny leg pants in. That my friend is a fashion sin.

[DeeDee3]

I'm a firm believer in the "Discretion is the better part of valour" theory. Enlightening people, when it is actually possible, takes time. A business meeting is no time to be making the world safe for men in camisoles.

Shaved legs seems to come up often in this forum. Many think that it's a give-away that we are CD. I have no body hair on my legs or chest, and it's seldom if ever mentioned to me that I am hairless. I wear shorts in the Summer and seldom does anyone comment about it. When they do I simply tell them that I never had any, and really don't know why. I'll bet a lot of GG's would like to have my condition. I never did figure out why this occured, I have facial hair, but am practically bald on top. DeeDee3

[Angie G]

Megan it's not easy talking about cressdressing some time whan it's you your talking about I can only do it with my wife :hugs:
Angie

[RachelDenise]

If you're militant, then a business meeting works. I agree that education takes time and may be best one on one, since there is nobody else to influence the other's opinion.

[Suzie S.]

Although it may have seemed to be a golden opportunity to jump in on the conversation, a business meeting is just not appropriate. While you're on the clock. keep it work related. Don't mix business with pleasure. Crossdressing, unfortunately, falls under the religion/politics category. It's a topic that's a no-no for me at work. Just my :2c:

[Carroll]

I do try to speak up for the LBGT community, but it depends on who I am with. I have a good friend that LBGT phobic in a very big way. When I dressed for Halloween, he avoided talking to me for any length of time, but was fine the next day.

[Kate Simmons]

As was already stated, when these subjects come up, most people are uninformed and the subject is misunderstood. Sometimes it's better just to bite your tongue, take your lumps and wait for a better opportunity at another time. It's hard to discuss something rationally when the dominant attitude is negative about a subject, especially when you are out numbered and "out gunned".

[NatalieGirl]

I have found that the best way to handle such people is not to confront them head-on. Try confronting them at an angle, something that will make them think.

For example, if I hear someone refer to crossdressers as gay, I might just casually mention that I read somewhere that most crossdressers are straight.

[Karren H]

Yes along simular lines... We've had a couple people have sex changes in the company, at the mines, and the old timers tells some good stories...

On a trip last year we stoped for lunch (good Bar-B-Que if I remember right), about a dozen of us, on a mine tour, an over nighter.... And the topic came up... Our VP started into his story and there were some very funny parts which had everyone including me rolling with laughter... But all of a sudden a strange feeling came over me because as we were discussing this, out in the VP's SUV, was my very large suit case full of my womens atire... Of which I wore that night when I went out enfemme!

Now in the presence of a dozen coal miniers... It wasn't the time to stand up and lift my skirt in protest... But honestly... Some of the stories they tell about what happened at the mine during the whole sex change events was really too much....

It really wasn't the fact that they had sex changes that made the storied funny.... One M2F and one F2M... It was the reaction of the other miners to them both before and after the operation especially the women miners..... Have to save that for another thread someday....

Karren

[Lovely Rita]

All the time. I also wish I could fight the good fight. Thank God we do have some really bold ones, but little by little we can do are part.

take care

[Helen H. Heels]

Heres another stereotype,
try craking this one around the water cooler.
Again, it is those who are unsure of self that point and laugh at others expense. It takes the spotlight off of themselves.

Yes, those flat furry boots are a crime.
Love and hugs,
Helen

[tommi]

It is definitely not a subject for work and I agree with so many of you that it
borders on the religon/politics front. To have it brought up in a sales meeting
is just rediculous in the first place to discuss. Best to move things back to work related subject for professional reasons.

[Jodi]

I was sitting down at a meeting with my client to help advise them on a software purchase that they were considering. There were four sales people in attendance, two males and two females. One of the female sales persons said that their son started shaving his legs for swimming. The other female said, yeah I heard some males do that and then wear women's clothes and commented on how gross and silly men in women's clothes looked. The all four of the sales people started laughing and making jokes about cross dressers saying all the nasty things that the uninformed and ignorant say about a subject they do not understand.

Needless to say that company did not make a sale of their software that day and will never be recommended by me. Their staff need to take sensitivity training.

Melissa, I believe a letter is in order to the CEO of the software company. You don't even have to bring up cd'ing. All you need do is say that you were interested in their product, but were put off by the total insensativity of the sales people, and decided to never do business with this company.

I'll bet you will get some quick action.

Jodi

[IMkrystal]

I was sitting down at a meeting with my client to help advise them on a software purchase that they were considering. There were four sales people in attendance, two males and two females. One of the female sales persons said that their son started shaving his legs for swimming. The other female said, yeah I heard some males do that and then wear women's clothes and commented on how gross and silly men in women's clothes looked. The all four of the sales people started laughing and making jokes about cross dressers saying all the nasty things that the uninformed and ignorant say about a subject they do not understand.

Needless to say that company did not make a sale of their software that day and will never be recommended by me. Their staff need to take sensitivity training.

I am an employee of a State University. Every year we are required to take training in Sexual Harassment. Yes, this is inappropriate behavior in the work environment , but if others can stand up for there rights, why is it inappropriate to stand-up for a group you identify with! Unless you feel telling ethnic, sexual, racial, homophobic, etc jokes are all right!

[Wenda]

Pick your battles. Pick the ones that count, and the ones you can win. Not sure from what you have shared where this skirmish stacks up, but I doubt it would be a hill to fight and die on. On the other hand, you are probably in a great position to take some strategic 'sniper' shots at carefully selected topics, such as suggested by Natlaie, " I heard somewhere that over 80% of crossdressers are straight." Not outing yourelf, not a kamakaze mission, but still taking a bit of a stand, appropriate in the situation. It's always easy for us to think up good responses with the benefit of time and afterthought. w.

[occdresser]

Yes along simular lines... We've had a couple people have sex changes in the company, at the mines, and the old timers tells some good stories...

On a trip last year we stoped for lunch (good Bar-B-Que if I remember right), about a dozen of us, on a mine tour, an over nighter.... And the topic came up... Our VP started into his story and there were some very funny parts which had everyone including me rolling with laughter... But all of a sudden a strange feeling came over me because as we were discussing this, out in the VP's SUV, was my very large suit case full of my womens atire... Of which I wore that night when I went out enfemme!

Now in the presence of a dozen coal miniers... It wasn't the time to stand up and lift my skirt in protest... But honestly... Some of the stories they tell about what happened at the mine during the whole sex change events was really too much....

It really wasn't the fact that they had sex changes that made the storied funny.... One M2F and one F2M... It was the reaction of the other miners to them both before and after the operation especially the women miners..... Have to save that for another thread someday....

Karren

Would you ever consider a sex change?

[MJ]

Would you ever consider a sex change?


Karren hutton a sex change ? you don't know Karren very well lol , thats like me becoming a guy :eek:

[Karren H]

Would you ever consider a sex change?


Karren hutton a sex change ? you don't know Karren very well lol , thats like me becoming a guy :eek:

BINGO!!!! Best of both genders.... having way too much fun in both to have to choose one over the other!!!

Karren

[Rachel Morley]

I've only been in this situation twice in my life. One of the times was when a couple of my guy friends (in the past when I had guy friends :D ) starting mocking this guy in this alternative type club we were in, because he was wearing a quasi utility kilt that was more of a skirt than a kilt. I said "I can't see the problem, it's only clothes ... I mean when you get right down to it, it's just a piece of cloth" and my buddy says "so is a bra but you wouldn't wear one" ... Ha! Little does he know! :D

In all honesty, I think you have to "play it by ear" and judge for yourself if the situation you are in is the right one to be an activist or a martyr. :p

[Mariah]

I what I do when it comes up laff smile than say,

if a girl can ware men's cloths like jeans t-shirts ext why can't men where dresses?
they always say " becuse it's girl jeans it's made for girls body"
I say, "then a dress tailered to a mans body is ok."
they always say" no it's not"
I say "but you just said it's ok if it made for the body ether it's ok for a tailered close to be warn for both sexs or it's not ok to cross dress for ether sex wich is it?"
they alway walk away lol (sorry if that did not make sence on my 5th jack and coke *^_^*)

hopes to you all
keris

[Tamara Segunda]

I agree with those who say you 've got to pick your battles and your battlegrounds, but in the context of a business meeting, as the OP described it, this is a no-brainer.

You don't need to get into a debate about the pros and cons of CDing at all. Rather you simply fix them with a blank stare and say something like, "Thank you. And now, before someone files a sexual harrassment complaint, shall we get down to business?" In one fell swoop, you've reminded them that such conversation is inappropriate in the workplace, and that you aren't amused by it. You'd do the same thing if someone cracked a racist or sexist joke, wouldn't you?

Social situations can be more difficult, but in such cases you simply change the subject, or say, "That sort of thing doesn't bother me at all. You seem upset by it, though." If they are foolish enough to respond, you just stay with the theme that you save your outrage for more important things like child abuse, cruelty to animals, and terrorism. Arguing can be counter productive, but silence in such cases is seldom golden. :2c:
.......Tamara Segunda.

[Shelly Preston]

You have to judge the situation at the time ansd what kind of comment you can make

You may have the time to say you were reading an article on how most crossdressers are hetrosexual

or you may just have time to say Well its up to them how they choose to live there lives

Or as has been said it may be best to say nothing

Just be careful unless you dont care

[Lydia Hamilton]

I was working with a good friend of mine the other day, when he started to go off about another person's gay son that wears women's clothing. Finally my tolerance ran out and my BS cup ran over. I looked at him and asked what the problem was. I then explained in my own way that everyone is different and are put on this earth for a purpose. His head is as hard as the rocks in the hole we were digging. I doubt if he will bring up that subject again. So, I suspose that counts for showing support.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Might be time for an update on what is gonna happen Friday......convenience store where I get gas is 2 women one man staff during daylight hours. The 2 women know Em, the guy has no clue. He has made some of the crudest remarks about other customers after they leave. One I remember in particular was a male customer before me who apparently had painted fingernails (I didn't notice). If he only knew that I had on hose, panties and cami along with painted toenails as I stood before him to pay for my gas. Anyhow, the two ladies have suggested in the past that I don't mention "it" to him because it would get ugly....major homophobe. Well Friday is his LAST day....moving on to better things he says..........

Girls asked me Monday if I could get them a photo of Em so after I leave Friday they could drop the bomb on him and tell him what an arse he is. They have the photo and can't wait for Friday to come. Wish I wasn't working Friday, I might stop by to put some gas in Em's vehicle (giggle giggle).


Emily Ann

[Rebecca-L]

Melissa, I believe a letter is in order to the CEO of the software company. You don't even have to bring up cd'ing. All you need do is say that you were interested in their product, but were put off by the total insensativity of the sales people, and decided to never do business with this company.

I'll bet you will get some quick action.

Jodi

I have to agree with Jodi. I was at a business dinner one time when the potential vendor started to tell anti-Jewish jokes while we had 2 Jewish people at the table. Needless to say, they did not make any sales that night and were crossed off of our potential suppliers list (and I worked for a large company at the time).

I do not know if they ever got the feedback, but I believe feedback that lets people (suppliers and sales) know that their actions have cost a large sale can be very effective.

[Jennifer1978]

I was in a situation like that just last week. But I was on a college campus where my coworkers and I ran into a couple of crossdressers in full dress. I wanted so much to tell them how much I admired their courage (I could never dress in public like that), but instead I bit lip as I listened to my coworkers talk about how wierd it was. The funny thing though, was listening to each of them talk about how tolerant they were of other people while at the same time putting them down.