Are You Lost Somewhere In Between The Definitions?

[Vicky_Scot]

A thread on this board regarding definitions got me thinking. A member posted the below definitions of CD, TV and TS.


Cd = Crossdresser - OCCASIONAL DRESSER
Tv = Transvestite - OCCASIONAL DRESSER OFTEN FOR SEXUAL KICKS
Ts = Transsexual - MOST OF THE TIME HAS THE DESIRE TO CHANGE SEX THROUGH OPERATIONS, BUT THERE ARE NON OP TS's


Damn, what label covers me then and I assume other girls out there.

Crossdresser - OCCASIONAL DRESSER - I do not dress occassionally.

Transvestite - OCCASIONAL DRESSER OFTEN FOR SEXUAL KICKS - I do not dress occassionally and not for sexual kicks.

Transsexual - MOST OF THE TIME HAS THE DESIRE TO CHANGE SEX THROUGH OPERATIONS, BUT THERE ARE NON OP TS's - I do not wish to change sex.

So this is what I would describe my dressing as:

???????? - DRESS AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY THAT I CAN BUT NOT FOR SEXUAL KICKS. I HAVE NO DESIRE WHAT SO EVER TO HAVE A SEX CHANGE AS I AM HAPPY WITH WHO I AM AND QUITE ATTACHED LITERALLY TO THE BITS I WAS BORN WITH. I DO NOT WISH TO TAKE FEMININE HORMONES. I DO NOT WANT TO BE A WOMAN FULL TIME. LASTLY I WANT TO HAVE THE CHOICE TO EXPRESS MY FEM SIDE WHEN REQUIRED.

So what label covers me ?

[loki_uk]

I dress as often as I can get away with, and think of myself as a bi gender crossdresser

I don't think I could be truly at peace as a female as I have strong female and male characteristics and really a bit of both

I could cope with dressing as a woman all the time though ;)

[Tamera]

I think that as long as one goes from "FEM MODE" to "MALE MODE" that person is a CD, and it does not matter how long or often you stay in one mode.
LOL
Tamera

[Tiffany Tuesday]

A thread on this board regarding definitions got me thinking. A member posted the below definitions of CD, TV and TS.



Damn, what label covers me then and I assume other girls out there.

Crossdresser - OCCASIONAL DRESSER - I do not dress occassionally.

Transvestite - OCCASIONAL DRESSER OFTEN FOR SEXUAL KICKS - I do not dress occassionally and not for sexual kicks.

Transsexual - MOST OF THE TIME HAS THE DESIRE TO CHANGE SEX THROUGH OPERATIONS, BUT THERE ARE NON OP TS's - I do not wish to change sex.

So this is what I would describe my dressing as:

???????? - DRESS AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY THAT I CAN BUT NOT FOR SEXUAL KICKS. I HAVE NO DESIRE WHAT SO EVER TO HAVE A SEX CHANGE AS I AM HAPPY WITH WHO I AM AND QUITE ATTACHED LITERALLY TO THE BITS I WAS BORN WITH. I DO NOT WISH TO TAKE FEMININE HORMONES. I DO NOT WANT TO BE A WOMAN FULL TIME. LASTLY I WANT TO HAVE THE CHOICE TO EXPRESS MY FEM SIDE WHEN REQUIRED.

So what label covers me ?

Hiya hon,
You sound as if you are what many might call transgendered and that you have found your personal male/female equilibrium without needing to alter your body or lifestyle.
hugz x

[aka.laura]

Aw cmon....
I dress for kicks and I dress because I feel comfortable and I think it's erotic and I will never ever have an operation allthough I sometimes do have phantasies about men and about other CDers, and I think I definitely have a female side (ask my wife ;o)) but I also have a male side. Why do you want to put a label on yourself? Enjoy the moment, be happy to be able to taste both sides:D

[Toyah]

I hate definitions and really dont fit into any exactly why do we have to have this compunction to define. I think this little boxes mentality is exactly what makes CDs unacceptable in society.
Dont try to anylise what you do it brings confusion, massive bills and from what I see a trip to the shrink means a trip to the divorce courts if you are married.
Enjoy what ya do and dont worry about why!!!!!

[Tamera]

An add on to my reply;

As Yoyah and Peach said. Many of us hate to live in a definition.

But some of us look for a definition as a place to be or fulfillment,as you are seeming to ask.

I stated that as long as you go from male mode to fem mode no matter how many times you are a CD.
This I beleive is partially right. But you must also take into consideration ones thoughts in fem mode for you could blend into the transgendered area.

Like the girls said. We hate definitions. And this is one example of why.
LOL
Tamera

[Sheri 4242]

I know we have been talking a great deal about definitions, and I realize that some are probably tired of the subject. BUT, I am convinced that this is a very important subject!!! While some people dislike being labeled, it is often important to try and be on the same page regarding definitions. This would seem to be especially true since we often are trying to help couples through initial understandings of CDing -- like we recently did with AJ_GG and Nathan/Natasha.( I noted then that some contradictatory definitions were being given out, and that such could only confuse those we are trying to help.)

So, this is where I have added my :2c: on a few definitions. (Even the man who first coined the word "transvestite" had problems with definitions -- see #2 below, paragraphs 2 and 3 of that item.) Anyway, not to be repetitive . . .

1.) Crossdresser (CD): (A.) A person who wears clothing of the opposite sex. This can be just a single article of clothing to all the way, fully dressed. This can be occassional to frequent -- even all of the time. Many different people crossdress -- some common exampes are MTF heterosexual CDs (see definition B), Transsexuals (TS's), Drag Queens, FTM CDs, Female Impersonators, male prostitutes. (B.) A term used commonly to indicate primarily heterosexual males who like to wear female clothing (as described above, from one or two articles of clothing to all the way, and at different frequencies). Quite a large number who fall into this definition have an inner feeling that there is some level of "feminine aspect" to their being, and medical research shows that this may be true.

2.) Transvestite (TV): Someone who enjoys wearing the clothing of the opposite sex (again, from one or two articles to fully dressing). Some definitions of TV suggest that a broader definition of TV is that TV's dress for some degree of sexual, erotic pleasure. Most dictionaries I have checked do not add this. In some countries, a TV is the same thing as Definition 1-B is for CD. While many of these CDs disdain the use of TV, its use might should be encouraged since "CD" -- as shown in 1-A -- can cover a wide spectrum of those who dress and thus cause confusion.

*The term "transvestite" was first coined by Magnus Hirschfeld in c. 1910, and has gone through slight changes in meaning since that time, and, seemingly is continuing to evolve. Hirschfeld saw erotic urges in transvestism, however, subsequent psychological studies have pointed out that since many who are TV's (or CD's as in 1-B) report the urge to dress since very young ages, that erotic urges cannot always be associated with dressing in clothing of the opposite sex.

**Hirschfeld was not particularly satisfied with the term: he wrote that clothing was often an outward expression chosen on the basis of various internal psychological situations. Interestingly, Hirschfeld helped people to achieve the very first legal name changes and to get the very first sexual reassignment surgery. "Hirschfeld's transvestites" were, in today's terms, not only TV's, but people from all over the transgender spectrum.

3.) Transsexual (TS): One who believes they were born the wrong gender -- they often say they feel trapped in the wrong body. Some will "transition" and have "sexual reassingment surgery" (SRS), some will not. Some will go only as far as having hormone therapy, some will not. Expense often affects the decision to transition through SRS. Family and peer pressure are also major factors. Given the effects of hormone therapy, many men having such report problems with male functioning. One who is preparing for SRS is called PreOp; one who has had SRS is called PostOp.

4.) Transgender (TG): "Transgender" is the state of one's "gender identity" (and not their sexual orientation). TG is aptly applied to where there is ambiguity regarding conventional notions of male and female, or non-conformity to those notions, OR moving between the two (sexual orientation notwithstanding). Magnus Hirschfeld (see #2 - definition of TV) was one of the first to tangibly make a distinction between "sex" and "gender." While today males who are CDers/TVs live in a world of secrecy, shame, and guilt, and often go to great lengths to hide their CDism/TVism, Hirschfeld's group of transvestites consisted of both males and females, with heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual and asexual orientations. Today, females frequently wear male clothing, or clothes designed to look much like male clothing, and are considered chic and in vogue.

[Lovely Rita]

I don't think there is a category for me..........maybe there is one called enigma. I don't get myself half the time so how will anyone else.

Happy to be an enigma. So much of what I do does not fall in line with any definition. I definitely would not fall into any stereotypical category. So many of my beliefs get me expelled from the standard way people think about us.

[kay2]

Individuals have many dimensions, and none of those dimensions are bi-valued. For example, not everyone is even clearly just GG or just GM. So, you might describe where you are on each of the following (and many other) dimensions as:

biological sex
gender
sexual orientation
hair style
bra wearing
mascara wearing
blah blah blah

Each particular term (CD, TG, ...) has a communal use as a symbol for some ill-defined region in this multi-dimensional space. Some individuals will fall right in the heart of regions, but most of us don't. That doesn't make the terms useless - after all I have given people real information if I describe my mood as "happy," even though the line between "happy" and some other emotion is ill-defined.

The problem with defining the terms we are talking about here, is that, like all terms, the definitions are determined by communal use. Remember, dictionaries don't dictate the meanings of words, they track the meanings as illustrated by their citations.

And, the terms are useful, because I can give you a rough (very rough) sense of me by saying I am somewhere between CD and Fashion Freedom, with no TS desires. Just don't get hung up on the idea that any one group owns a term. :2c:

[Kate Simmons]

I like Rita's Enigma category. That seems to fit me as well. Well done, Rita. Now as far as enhancements to the category, I think I'm a OE (ongoing enigma) myself.:happy:

[susie evans]

i don't fit any ware i just love dress and enjoy thebest of both worlds :heehee:

susie

[trannie T]

Each of us is a unique individual. We may fit neatly into some category but that is usually not the case. I have my own political and religious beliefs. I have my own interests and hobbies. My interest and practice in crossdressing is as unique as the rest of my life.

[Carin's Wife GG]

whether for my Carin, myself or any of our children. Labels are restrictive. They do not allow for thinking outside the proverbial box. I LIVE outside that box, lol. Always have, always will. Coming to terms with CDing was the ultimate challenge for me in really living outside that box.



Louise.

[Rita Barron]

Hi,

I ran the entire gamut of trying to define what I was and who I am now. I will post some pictures soon that will show you how my mother dressed me when I was 3 yrs old. It speaks volumes. I was raised in a matriarchal environment. The women ruled and I found myself connecting to women more than men. I loved the way women looked, dressed, and smelled and acted.

At first I thought that all I had was fetishes because I took my pleasures in my own privacy. I was 37 when I came out of the closet in a big way. But that is another story. I developed a closed friendship (non-sexual) with a pre-op transexual. I think that her influence on me had a big impact in my desire to become a transexual. Unfortunately, I was turned down for medical reasons ( bad heart) It broke my heart and I had difficulty accepting a role as a crossdresser. I was a fool. I realize now that being a crossdresser and in the company of other crossdressers was the most joyful alive beautiful time of my life.

I have made a decision to come out of the closet again although I have a lot of work ahead of me It is so nice to have so many nice people in this forum

Love to all

Rita B

[Karren H]

Best of both genders, when and where I wish..........

Karren

[jayseedee]

There seems to be great confusion over the labels you quote and many have misconceptions as to why many of us do what we do. Having said that there does appear to be definable groups so how about this:


Cd = Crossdresser - A guy who is turned on by wearing women's clothes who may or may not also be comforted by it.
Tv = Transvestite - A guy who is comforted by wearing womens clothes and want's to express what he feels as his feminine side.

Ts = Transsexual - A guy who feels he was born in the wrong body, who may or may not be prepared to undergo surgery to correct what he feels is a mistake.

And of course any combination of the above!

[Sheri 4242]

There seems to be great confusion over the labels you quote and many have misconceptions as to why many of us do what we do. Having said that there does appear to be definable groups so how about this:


Cd = Crossdresser - A guy who is turned on by wearing women's clothes who may or may not also be comforted by it.
Tv = Transvestite - A guy who is comforted by wearing womens clothes and want's to express what he feels as his feminine side.

Ts = Transsexual - A guy who feels he was born in the wrong body, who may or may not be prepared to undergo surgery to correct what he feels is a mistake.

And of course any combination of the above!


You have said, more succinctly than I did, basically what I stated. One exception is under CD where you say "turned on by." If you mean mentlly and/or emotionally turned on, then I agree. If you mean erotically turned on, then I would say possibly but not necessarily.

I recall a few years ago a detractor stating that CD's dressed for the eotic effects. That is not necessarily true at al. Many of us have been CDing since we were 4-5 years old, way before there could have been an erotic component. Many CDs knew at such an early age that there was a feminine aspect to their being, although they didn't understand why or how.

[Chloe Jean]

To be honest, I'm still trying to figure myself out. I do love painting my lips , doing my makeup and have so many fantasies of being a Transexual or GG.
My favs- is that I'm a Transexual Geishaor a green skinned Orin slave girl or a Mannequin. Would love decorated in body paint and have pics.
I have gone a couple times en femme and loved it, little nervous but that added to the excitment. I don't think could be full time girl unless I had some radical changes made to my body. At the same time I still like real women.
Amelia

[jayseedee]

I recall a few years ago a detractor stating that CD's dressed for the eotic effects. That is not necessarily true at al. Many of us have been CDing since we were 4-5 years old, way before there could have been an erotic component. Many CDs knew at such an early age that there was a feminine aspect to their being, although they didn't understand why or how.

Hi Barbara,
I have heard this many times but it is generally accepted that sexual awareness probably starts at 3-4 years old. It is my belief that many (not all) - but myself included - CDs fix on female clothes at this age before we are fully aware of the actual differences between the sexes. The clothes, being the obvious difference, therefore become the object of our desire. I have been a CD since this early age and have always found it erotic, and for me there is no such thing as "my feminine side". Having said that, I do derive comfort (and stress relief) from dressing and acting in an overtly feminine manner and taking off the Macho cloak for a while.

[Maureen Henley]

Several of the posts here seem to be hung up on the notion that there is a difference between crossdressing and transvestism. If one looks at the etemology of the word transvestite, doesn't it mean "dressing as the opposite"? I think many dislike the term transvestite because it seems like a clinical term, implying a deviant/abnormal condition needing treatment. Crossdresser seems to be a much more friendly and warmer word.

I believe that the reasons for CD'ing are far too varied to use a single term without modifiers describe one's actions. It is convenient, when introducing someone to a new world, to use quick and easy terms, but the definitions are so subjective, confusion can often result. It is like trying to ascertain what one means when one says "blue". Anything from robin's egg to navy is blue, but they are not the same.

Just remember, labels go on file folders, not people!:heehee:

[Sheri 4242]

whether for my Carin, myself or any of our children. Labels are restrictive. They do not allow for thinking outside the proverbial box. I LIVE outside that box, lol. Always have, always will. Coming to terms with CDing was the ultimate challenge for me in really living outside that box.
Louise.

I don't like labels either. That said, I don't think we are really labeling ourselves if we attempt to get on the same page as to definitions of the different terms we toss around. Take AJ_GG and Nathan/Natasha. They came here seriously seeking help, advice, information, and understanding. In one thread they were given well-intentioned advice, yet numerous posts gave blatantly contradictory definitions. Had I been either of them, what I would have taken away from those posts was (A.) some new insight to be certain, but equally (B.) a sense of confusion over the contradictions.

Maybe I approach things too academically since that is my background, but like I tried to state in a much earlier post on this thread, there needs to be some agreement about what means what if we are going to help others, or even if we are going to better understand ourselves. It is sort of like some of the polls conducted. If we don't concur about basic definitions (even multiple definitions in re one word as dictionaries often do) to go by, then research is meaningless. I thought I did a fair job at a definition of CD in my earliest post on this thread, for example, b/c it included multiple facets of how the term is used.

So, I am not trying to label anybody, myself included. But, if a person fits (loosely or strictly) within the bounds of a definition, at least there is better understanding for everybody.

[Sheri 4242]

I have heard this many times but it is generally accepted as a fact that sexual awareness probably starts at 3-4 years old. It is my belief that many (not all) CDs fix on female clothes at this age before we are fully aware of the actual differences between the sexes.

You're right about when sexual awareness starts to to become apparent, in re understanding the basic gender differences, but I was speaking of an erotic component. When I first crossdressed (at age 4-5; I would wear a neighborhood girl's skirt and she'd put on my pants) there was definitely an awarenss that we were different genders. But, there was no erotic component. Not that it is impossible, but usually eroticism come of age a bit later. The main thing I recall is that I knew that, for me, there was some sort of feminine aspect to my being and wearing her skirts outwardly expressed (to the two of us) what I felt inside. Sometimes an erotic attachment will come into play, but that is usually later -- for males it might come into play at age 9-10-11 -- or it might not manifest until a later age. You are correct that not all of us feel the femine aspect to our beings, but the studies I've read and/or participated in indicate that more of us feel that way than not. That said, there's nothing wrong if you don't have that inner sense.

[Sheri 4242]

Several of the posts here seem to be hung up on the notion that there is a difference between crossdressing and transvestism. If one looks at the etemology of the word transvestite, doesn't it mean "dressing as the opposite"? I think many dislike the term transvestite because it seems like a clinical term, implying a deviant/abnormal condition needing treatment. Crossdresser seems to be a much more friendly and warmer word.

I believe that the reasons for CD'ing are far too varied to use a single term without modifiers describe one's actions. It is convenient, when introducing someone to a new world, to use quick and easy terms, but the definitions are so subjective, confusion can often result. It is like trying to ascertain what one means when one says "blue". Anything from robin's egg to navy is blue, but they are not the same.

Just remember, labels go on file folders, not people!:heehee:

You've pretty much hit the nail dead on the head! You might be interested in studying about the man who first coined the term "transvestite." His name was Magnus Hirschfeld, and he coined the term about 1910.

[jayseedee]

You are correct that not all of us feel the femine aspect to our beings, but the studies I've read and/or participated in indicate that more of us feel that way than not. That said, there's nothing wrong if you don't have that inner sense.

Hi Barbara,
Interestingly, I get exactly the reverse impression from the European end. Could it be that our conclusions are coloured by the prevailing attitudes in our respective continents? I still feel that you are underestimating the age at which sexuality becomes "active". One must also not forget the phenomenon of precocious puberty.

[Jere Oneil]

I don't seem to fit very well in any of these, but Barbara's definitions come closer.. I like the feel of women's clothes, and I find wearing them to be relaxing, whether it's a dress or skirt at home, or the lingerie that I wear everywhere.I have started to wonder some though. I've always said, I'm not interested in dressing up and going out as a woman and that I just think women's clothes feel better. But, I can't explain why I like wearing bras. I don't put forms in mine, and as most GGs and I'm sure most of you girls will attest to, a bra isn't the most comfortable thing in the world to wear, so I'm not sure about that one myself.

[Sheri 4242]

Hi Barbara,
Interestingly, I get exactly the reverse impression from the European end. Could it be that our conclusions are coloured by the prevailing attitudes in our respective continents?

Jayseedee,

You may be quite correct in this assessment! I think if one was to read the posts from all over the world on some threads, it would be apparent that "the prevailing attitudes" often (but not always) differ because of fundamental differences of where we live and the cultural differences of our respective societies.

Those of us from the states, for example, who have been fortunate enough to have traveled in Europe, know that there are definite cultural attitudes on which we differ on any number of topics. Our respective views are, indeed, coloured by our cultures, socialization, and respective life experiences. I suppose you have heard of the "Ugly American," well, I've seen "him" in action in France (of all places - lol) and it wasn't complimentary (to my fellow Americans). But, this just serves to underscore that while we have much in common, in re world viewpoints, we equally have vast differences in how to get there based on our respective histories, prevailing cultural attitudes, and predominate political socialization. Why, then, should there automatically exist exactness in our respective views (and terminology) regarding gender, CDing, etc.? Plainly the obvious answer is that our cultures have different, even if slight, differences on topics such as gender, CDing, etc. (Ha - there are differences just in the states, region to region -- probably moreso than in the entirety of the European community.)

Okay, enough on world culture and gender viewpoints. It has been a pleasure discussing this with you -- very educational. Have a great day!

Barbara

[jayseedee]

Jayseedee,


Okay, enough on world culture and gender viewpoints. It has been a pleasure discussing this with you -- very educational. Have a great day!

Barbara

Likewise!

[Casey Morgan]

Ts = Transsexual - A guy who feels he was born in the wrong body, who may or may not be prepared to undergo surgery to correct what he feels is a mistake.

LOL Careful there, I could argue that your definition makes me TS. It's just that I shouldn't have been born into a female body either.

Interjecting a little humor here, how about this for a dual definition of TG?
1) Someone who's gender and sex are opposites, but they don't seek to change sex. (I know that can include non-ops but if they're TS then they're TS. that's all up to how they personally feel.)
2) Someone who's gender, gender expression, and preferred body type make even people in the Transgender community go WTF? :D (I kid because this is me.)

[jayseedee]

(1)Several of the posts here seem to be hung up on the notion that there is a difference between crossdressing and transvestism. If one looks at the etemology of the word transvestite, doesn't it mean "dressing as the opposite"? I think many dislike the term transvestite because it seems like a clinical term, implying a deviant/abnormal condition needing treatment. Crossdresser seems to be a much more friendly and warmer word.

(2) I believe that the reasons for CD'ing are far too varied to use a single term without modifiers describe one's actions.

(3) It is convenient, when introducing someone to a new world, to use quick and easy terms, but the definitions are so subjective, confusion can often result. It is like trying to ascertain what one means when one says "blue". Anything from robin's egg to navy is blue, but they are not the same.

(4) Just remember, labels go on file folders, not people!:heehee:


(1) I think the whole idea of this thread was to try to fathom out just what we mean when we use these terms. As you say they can mean exactly the same in a literal sense. Therefore it would be nice to establish a global meaning for each in order to further communication. Arguing about what we as individuals think a particular word means or quoting the meaning from any particular dictionary - as these vary greatly - is not constructive.

(2) I keep reading this but nothing else I read leads me to think that there are more than a few basic motives for wearing women' clothes or acting in a feminine manner. All of us like to think we are unique but it would seem we are not very unique.

(3) Again the whole idea is to establish what we mean; there is little profit in semantic argument. Further, I'm not sure there are that many shades of cross-dressing "Blue", but one must ask, why it is so important, in anything but an academic sense, to tell others what shade of "blue" you are. Most people do not wear their sexuality on their sleeve after all.

(4) Proper globally understood labels would mean that the misconceptions that the world at large has about us would be dispelled. I for one would be pleased to have a label that told people that I didn’t eat children or frighten dogs and that all I did was occasionally wear women’s clothes for my own amusement.