TG in the News: Pink Pistols

[RobertaFermina]

What do you think?

A Transgender Peace Officer takes to the limelight for Transgender Safety through carrying guns.

She's out there !

http://alternet.org/rights/50039/

I think these people share our concerns, and employ a method, carrying a gun, that terrifies me, and appeals to me.

I always worry that I will be shot with my own gun, so why carry it? (my own answer - do I want to get shot with my own gun, or bludgeoned with someone's baseball bat?....tough choice!)

Also, I probably don't have the nerve to shoot someone except in the unusual case where the threat came up rapidly (before i could think about it much) and I responded rapidly (pulled gun and brandished before my purse could be snatched or knocked to the ground). That would take a lot of training.

So I might carry a gun, if I could afford it, could train with it to my satisfaction, could keep it safely when not in use (no self-inflicted, or thief-inflicted wounds), and could confirm I had the cool and nerve to use it safely and accurately under pressure.

Right now, I have no such confidences.

On the other hand, it just might start an arms-race with Violent TG-Phobes.


:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Kate Simmons]

Think positively Roberta. You don't have to choose what would happen to you (being shot or bludgeoned) if you keep your wits about you, are alert and avoid potentailly dangerous scenerios. While I know carrying a piece is like having an equalizer, I kind of share MacGyvers thinking about them and would never have one unless I couldn't help it. One T-Gal friend of mine carries a .357 sometimes and frankly it scares the crap out of me and I try to avoid her when I know she is packing. Know yourself, the situation and your options. Knowledge is power in this case. I try to avoid confrontations but will defend myself if backed into a corner. As you said, my purpose is just to enjoy being myself, not to create problems or start a war.:happy:

[DawnL]

Roberta,
I have to agree I don't think carrying a gun is the answer. I too would be afraid that it would be I that got hurt with the gun. I grew up with guns in the house. Guns of all shapes and sizes so it isn't a matter of being afraid of guns, I just don't think that it is worth the risk. It looks good in the movies, the smooth gun toting person who is cool under fire and quietly whips out the gun and chases off the bad guys. That is not real life. If you could stop shaking long enough to open your purse, without the bad guy retaliating, you probably couldn't hit anything anyway. I do believe we should have the right to carry the gun if we want but I choose not to carry one.

[Teresa Amina]

pulled gun and brandished before my purse could be snatched or knocked to the ground

Brandished? If the "bad guy" is also packing you're dead. Pulling a weapon means you're willing to kill to protect yourself. That "bad guy" is going to kill you if you're just waving the damn thing about expecting him to run off in terror.

[EjayeCD]

I'm a crossdressing cop & I really see the need to protect yourself.

[Joy Carter]

"An armed society is a polite society."

I don't agree but I do support the right to gun ownership. Australia banned guns a few years ago and the criminals now have a field day. What's next ? Banning can openers ?

[Kristen Kelly]

44585

I do agree with the fact that its world has come to this but if you are going to carry you have to be ready to use it if necessary. The same things need to be done at all times weather you are packing or not. Be aware of your surroundings, don’t put yourself in a situation to jeopardize your safety, there is safety in numbers. For now I’ll use a gaff for what I’m packing, Guns don't make the fashion statement I am looking for.
44589
The line in the article I loved was, "Pick on someone your own caliber."

[Kali]

I shoot every now and then with the local Pink Pistols chapter; a bunch of nice folks. There are a couple of TS members who are active on a lot on Internet forums.

I carry all the time; I made that choice years ago and am comfortable with it. My SO doesn't carry; not because she is afraid that someone will use her own gun against her (which happens orders of magnitude more often in fiction than reality) but because she doesn't believe she could shoot someone.

And for what it's worth, the author's statement that "certain members of the pro-guin community ... consider the Pink Pistols to be a thorn in their side" is total BS. In true CA liberal fashion she simply hates to admit that conservatives/libertarians can be just as inclusive as any other group.

[Jere Oneil]

I do have a concealed carry permit, and I do carry my gun on some occasions. So far, I have not had to use it, and I hope I never do, but if it came to a case of protecting myself or family, I would. One interesting thing I read right after Florida passed the first carry law, was that crime against tourists increased. After the perpetrator in a nationally reported violent car jacking was captured, he made the statement that he had targeted out of state cars, because with cars bearing Florida plates, he couldn't be sure that the occupant was not armed. Criminals prefer easy targets.

[Billiemarie]

Having been in the situation where I was to the point of cocking the gun and had it aimed at the guy who was coming toward me with a broken beer bottle, I remember that I was totally calm which later thinking about it I realized that I would have used the gun to protect myself.Thank God he decided it would be wise to look for someone else to pick on. Since then I have aquired many guns and have taken many courses including laws and safty. Member NRA, SASS, and W3G. As serious as carrying a gun can be I think you should be as educated as possible and trained. Shooting a gun and hitting something when your scared is hard to do. No matter what, you are at a disadvantage because you have to think before you shoot and the bad guy is just going to shoot. Even though the law abiding citizen is at a disadvantage its nice to know in the US we have the right to defend ourselves and our loved ones and our property.
My opponent may get the first shot off but his is much more likely to miss then mine.

[Georgette]

I have a carry permit, and I do carry 90% of the time. Here in my state we still have the law of the west, you have the right protect yourself at all times.
Berreta 9mm, with 13 shot mag. before the 8 shot max. it's with me all the time, and I will use it if the situation arises.:rolleyes:

[Kitty Sue]

Joy that is not correct. Violent crime dropped. It is one of the biggest lies put out by the gun groups that crime in Aust increased. You can check it out by going to the aussie federal police page.

But if your like me I just train dogs. You can have your namby pamby pistol ladies but this girl used to have a couple of rottweilers. Now though I am about to get a Giant Schnauzer. The nice thing about a dog is that they can wake me up while a gun cannot.

[Karren H]

Don't own a gun... Never will!! Way too many cases of kids getting a hold of wepons and shooting themselves, their siblings, or other kids... And if I'm dumb enough to get into a situation where I would need a gun enfemme... Shame on me.... If I can't cross-check my way out, I can always blind them with the flash on my camera and run like hell!! Hehe

Karren

[Jenny Beth]

Here in Canada it's next to impossible to get a permit to own a handgun let alone carry one, and I'm glad for that. Sure we have violent criminals just like everywhere else but we don't have an epidemic of gun crimes. Statistics show that most gun crime is gang related settling their own scores and I have never felt unsafe anywhere I have gone whether dressed or not. But common sense dictates when out dressed, staying away from seedy areas, parking in well lit areas (never underground) or taking taxis are simple ways to avoid confrontations.

[Ashley1]

Yes Roberta, I'd consider carrying a gun but only if I could find one with those cute pearl handles like George Patton had that would fit in my purse.:hugs:
:love:
Ashley

[Syuviel]

its a tough decision. I cant really imagine myself carrying a gun at all, but i can see how it would help.
but outlawing guns is really stupid.

"if you outlaw guns, then only the outlaws will have guns"~ George Carlin

[GACountrygal]

Don't own a gun... Never will!! Way too many cases of kids getting a hold of wepons and shooting themselves, their siblings, or other kids... And if I'm dumb enough to get into a situation where I would need a gun enfemme... Shame on me.... If I can't cross-check my way out, I can always blind them with the flash on my camera and run like hell!! Hehe

Karren

Being a Gun owner that has kids around the house, statements like this chap my hide to no end. If you EDUCATE and TALK to your kids about guns, then situations like said above wouldnt happen. If you hide your guns, your kids are gonna find em, and like al kids are, they will be curious about them. Hence how kids end up getting shot in thier own home.

Our son is almost 4. He knows theres guns in the house. He knows NOT to touch them. If he wants to shoot the bbgun, he comes and ASKS us. He knows not to point them at anyone. He's safe when them. HES ONLY 3 1/2, but we have taught him and taken the time with himm to discuss guns. If he ever wants to look at them, or handle them, he knows all he hasta do is ask. And our pistols (condition 3, no round in the chamber, full magazine in) are out of reach, but he knows and understands why they are where they are.

If yall think you can get out of a situation just by talking, then more power to ya, or even pepper spray, fine.
Do you really want to be in a possibly life threatening situation where you have to get close enough to the bad guy that he could do you serious harm with just his hands or take a knife to you without you seeing?

Call me paranoid if you will. I call myself prepared.

I carry a pistol (condition 1, cocked locked, safety on) EVERYWHERE that its legal too. I'm willing to shoot.

Now thats all just my opinion. Take it or leave it.
I'm entitled to it just as yall are.
Now I dont care if you chose to carry or not, or if you even like guns. We're all entitled to do as we like.
Just be responsible in your actions, whatever they are, and dont look at the world through rose covered glasses. Crime happens EVERYWHERE, from the best million dollar neighborhoods, to the slums. So just dont think you can avoid it by living in a *good* area.

Oh yea, and I really dont want to get close enough to the BG, Id rather keep as much distance between us as possible!
Nic


PS Karen, nothing against you hun, do as you wish, I just used your statement as an example, since many others share your opinion (including my mother in law)

[Karren H]

Hard to talk to a 4 year old and even harder on a 16 year old with an attitude.... And no common sence... Lol Drinking, drugs, STDs, getting him into college and a job...... Just one less thing I don't have to worry about... Had some friends loose a son... So it's personal..

I have no problem with guns or people owning and shooting guns.... It is a freeish country after all..

Karren

[JulieC]

Here in Canada it's next to impossible to get a permit to own a handgun let alone carry one, and I'm glad for that. Sure we have violent criminals just like everywhere else but we don't have an epidemic of gun crimes. Statistics show that most gun crime is gang related settling their own scores and I have never felt unsafe anywhere I have gone whether dressed or not. But common sense dictates when out dressed, staying away from seedy areas, parking in well lit areas (never underground) or taking taxis are simple ways to avoid confrontations.

While the gun crime rate is very significantly lower in Canada than the U.S., Canada's violent crime rate is three times that of the U.S.

Just food for thought.

There's no such thing as the perfect country.

-BB

[arani5879]

In my opinion the best thing for self defense(other then common sense to stay out of dangerous situations) is martial arts. And yes even en femme in 4" heels it will still work.

[MJ]

there are some good points here .but i feel whatever happens is going to happen, thats life just stay out of dangerous situations

[hotbobbie]

I just joined the Pink Pistols chapter in Seattlee.

[Teresa Amina]

a couple of rottweilers

Ouch! Got nipped by a very large Rott a few years ago. If the owner hadn't been there then I wouldn't be here now :eek: Or at least would look very funny hopping about on one high heel :D

[brun123]

I dont know where you got your information but here is a link to an article and the Statistics Canada website stating that the violent crime rate in Canada is lower than the United States. Also approximatly 2/3 of the homicides in the US involved firearms while ony 1/3 in the US.


PS I dont belive in guns. I also belive that the easier it is for the average person to get a gun the easier it is for a criminal.

[brun123]

While the gun crime rate is very significantly lower in Canada than the U.S., Canada's violent crime rate is three times that of the U.S.

Just food for thought.

There's no such thing as the perfect country.

-BB

My previous post was in response to this. also here is the link to the article i found http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

[JeanneF]

I'm a proud member of the Pink Pistols.

I have my concealed carry permit, and any time I go out en femme there's a snub nose .357 in my purse.

I was mugged when I was 19 walking across my college campus after an evening class. I'll never be a victim again.

[Billijo49504]

I usually have a 9mm with me most of the time. I'm not picky, Glock, Khar, S&W, Sig and Kimber. I have one with me right now.And I will use them. But I hope I never have too. I was at the seen of a bank robbery, but no threat, so it stayed concealed. But when the cops got there, there was some questions....BJ

[trannie T]

I am a life member of the NRA, a retired peace officer and have a concealed weapons permit. I am also aware of the considerable liability and responsibility if one chooses to carry a firearm. I choose not to carry a weapon, the risks outweigh the benefits.
I do carry pepper spray, it is cheap, legal and very effective.

[Billiemarie]

I definitly agree that a gun in the home can be a good thing or a bad thing. But even if there are no guns or even talk of them in a home a child should be educated on the use, laws, and effects of firearms when mishandled. When the child is away from you he needs to know the dangers in life that he might run into. Such as places where he may run into less supervised homes containing many dangerous things such as loaded guns, untrained animals, electrical hazards, swimming pools, the list would go on and on.
As a rule we don't get hurt at work, I know it happens but it's usually when we are doing something that we really don't know anything about.
If you don't have knowledge in the use of firearms, stay away from them and teach your child the dangers of them. A lot of things are dangerous.
Like electricity, or driving automobiles, or eating the last piece of apple pie w/2 scoops of ice cream without checking with you first.

[Billiemarie]

By the way I am a member of NRA, SASS,W3G, Centrl Fla R& P, and I would love to add PP to the list. Can anyone tell me of the closest chapter of Pink Pistols to the Orlando area.
Thanks in advance for you help.
Billie

[Kali]

By the way I am a member of NRA, SASS,W3G, Centrl Fla R& P, and I would love to add PP to the list. Can anyone tell me of the closest chapter of Pink Pistols to the Orlando area.
Thanks in advance for you help.
Billie

Try http://www.pinkpistols.org

[janedoe311]

He was a nut and was quite capable of chasing me down with a shotgun. I illegally carried a pistol for a while, and at the same time kept my wits about me.

Protecting your life and your family is a RIGHT. No need to have a law. It is sad that in some states and countries the crook and murder is armed (and the governments do not care that you can not protect yourself.

Do you know how many times people protect themselves with a illegal pistol in NY and no charges are filed, or just dropped. So it is OK to use a illegal pistol in NY to protect yourself but not own one?

FYI I was told were I live it could take as much as 1 1/2 hours for a sheriff to respond to a life and death emergency!

We are on our own.

PS I was a security officer and armed and trained. I was shooting 200 rounds a week for years until the range closed. I have had a firearms class in college and many Law enforcement classes. I own a air taser and my pistols are locked up but can be accessed fast.

[Eva Diva]

I went to college in my thirties, and met a woman my age in school from Texas who was quite femme - always had her hair done and makeup on. One day she told me that she always had a pistol in her handbag. That's the first person I've known in my life who told me that - but then again, I live in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, where you need a firearms permit to carry pepper spray. I have no problem with citizens putting holes in criminals who threaten them, but I don't have a gun in my house, and I'd be very nervous about one being there. A friend of mine heard someone outside his window and got out his shotgun. When he pulled the curtain open, it was a friend of his just fooling around. Oops! Almost killed him.
I'm theoretically in favor of people being able to carry concealed weapons, but you have to do it knowing that a handgun is a man-killler. If you're not prepared to kill another man when you leave the house in the morning, you shouldn't have the gun with you.

[AmandaM]

I grew up around them. Owned them since I was 13, including my own ammo. Same with my friends. Not one of my friend's, etc. had ever heard of some kid hurting themselves with a gun. That's cause they weren't "forbidden fruit" to us.

[JulieC]

My previous post was in response to this. also here is the link to the article i found http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

Thanks for the article!

My conclusions come from research I did on this about two years ago, when a person on another forum said they were moving to Canada to get away from all the violence. I can't directly cite what resources I used. But, understand that aggravated assault and robbery are just two of many violent crimes. Note that the article says "Based on selected offences". I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it may not be a sufficient review of the data.

Later edit:
Ok, I found some other figures. I'm concerned about the definition of "violent crime" in these resources, but this at least gives some other fuji apples to compare against mcintosh apples. Deriving from the first table at http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm, the violent crime rate in the U.S. in 2005 was 469 per 100,000 population. Deriving from http://142.206.72.67/04/04b/04b_graph/04b_graph_002a_2e.htm (from http://142.206.72.67/04/04b/04b_002a_e.htm) the violent crime rate in Canada was just shy of 1,000 per 100,000...or roughly twice that of the United States.

[janedoe311]

there are some good points here .but i feel whatever happens is going to happen, thats life just stay out of dangerous situations

My neighbor was held hostage in his home. The bad guy killed one of the hostages and eventually the owner was able to get his handgun and chased this guy away!
The bad guy was just released from prison!

I would be nice to be in a utopia society but that does not exist.

Even in the lowest crime areas there is crime. (My county has a very low crime rate for a California suburb).

There will always be Bad people and they do not care about gun laws! Only you can protect yourself. The cops and Laws are only a slight deterrent. Feel contented that they will come by after you are killed.

[JulieC]

The cops and Laws are only is a slight deterrent. Feel contented that they will come by after you are killed.

Generally speaking, the police are incapable of stopping a crime in action. They arrive too late after the crime to have an effect on stopping it. Police, generally speaking, clean up after a crime has been committed (so to speak).

There are sparsely populated places where calling the sheriff results in them showing up at your door in a day or two, even if there was a violent crime in action. For example, Wyoming. Another example, Australian Outback. If I lived in such a place and decided to sit on my front porch en femme, I would have a gun handy.

[janedoe311]

I am a life member of the NRA, a retired peace officer and have a concealed weapons permit. I am also aware of the considerable liability and responsibility if one chooses to carry a firearm. I choose not to carry a weapon, the risks outweigh the benefits.
I do carry pepper spray, it is cheap, legal and very effective.

Also if you killed someone you will have to live with it.
I got a air taser and sell them on a web site. In CA it is legal to conceal them without a permit, the last time I check. They are rather bulky though so not really concealable. I have stunguns in both cars and carry one when I go to SF. Do not like the city too many people.

It is a matter of risk assessment. We have little drug problems in this County so rarely have problems. Most violent crime and probably most crime is drug related. Drive by shootings happen everywhere else.
Oakland, Richmond and SF have the problems, Vallejo, Vacavile a close second. For me I find it hard to understand why someone lives in ares like that, always in the news, drive by shootings, road Rage, someone going postal,(sorry USPS), car thefts, car hijackings, shootouts in the streets etc. Seems a simple thing to move!

When on my own property I have holsters and will put it on my hip for everyone to see! It was amazing how much better people behaved when I was a security officer and carrying, then when unarmed.


So I do not carry, I am a fast runner! :D

[AmandaM]

I was wondering, does this .44 magnum make my butt look big? :tongueout

[brun123]

Thanks for the article!

My conclusions come from research I did on this about two years ago, when a person on another forum said they were moving to Canada to get away from all the violence. I can't directly cite what resources I used. But, understand that aggravated assault and robbery are just two of many violent crimes. Note that the article says "Based on selected offences". I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it may not be a sufficient review of the data.

Later edit:
Ok, I found some other figures. I'm concerned about the definition of "violent crime" in these resources, but this at least gives some other fuji apples to compare against mcintosh apples. Deriving from the first table at http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm, the violent crime rate in the U.S. in 2005 was 469 per 100,000 population. Deriving from http://142.206.72.67/04/04b/04b_graph/04b_graph_002a_2e.htm (from http://142.206.72.67/04/04b/04b_002a_e.htm) the violent crime rate in Canada was just shy of 1,000 per 100,000...or roughly twice that of the United States.


For clearity sake the website i gave had a table at the bottom http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm, this shows what homicide, aggrevated assult, and robbery are higher in the US per capita while break and enter, Motor vehicle theft and arson are higher in Canada. The statistic that stands out to me the most is the homicide rate in canda it is 1.8/100,000 and in the US it is 5.5/100,000. When speaking about guns i think that is what applies most. There is one thing to remember guns are made to kill and serve no other purpose. If we are allowed to carry hadguns why not automatic weapons, where do we draw the line.

[Kimberly]

Okay... here I go:


You're all insane. Those who carry guns, I think, are putting themselves at risk much more than not carrying a weapon.

Plus, what kind of message are we giving to the world if the TG community suddenly started packing a (second) piece? That we're an aggressive group ready to die for our beliefs... sorry, worse: to kill others for the freedom to dress how we like.

You wanna dress how you like - just put the damn clothes on, and walk out the door!! Don't risk your own and other's lives, just live it.

By sending a peaceful message out, it'll show the police and everyone else that we are above violence and aren't hurting anyone in our behaviour. That should be our aim - not self preservation by the wildest means. (PS: How many more f*cking "Tranny gets life for murder" headlines" do we wanna hear? We're already considered freaks and psychos by manny!)

Just don't carry them.

[suzy]

Well, may I say this?

I fully support the carrying of concealed weapons! I think it is an excellent idea and it is damned time that Pink Pistols was started up! Of course, every law must be followed and every person needs to be trained, and in my humble opinion....every gun needs to be fully loaded at all times!:D

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions but I am not going to die at the hands of some insane lunatic who may or may not be homophobic.

Ladies.......start your engines!:D

[Kimberly]

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions but I am not going to die at the hands of some insane lunatic who may or may not be homophobic.
You'll die QUICKER with a gun in your hand, than without!

[JulieC]

There is one thing to remember guns are made to kill and serve no other purpose.

Umm, this is flatly wrong. I've shot rifle probably 8-10,000 times and never once did I ever shoot with the intention of killing or harming any living thing.

There are more than 300 million guns in the U.S. very, very few of them are ever fired in anger. There are other uses than poking holes in people.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

I think that if evryone had the right to carry a firearm there would probably be less gun violence. Let me explain, please! If you are a bad guy that wants to rob or harm someone you will be less likely to do it if you thought they may also have a weapon. The only people that gun laws affect are the honest people, if you are intent on being a criminal you can always get your hands on a gun. therefore if the bad guys started hearing about the litttle old lady blowing away an attacker with her 44 magnum they would be less likely to go after the 30 something housewife and her purse. My daughter was assaulted by a man trying to rape her and she shot him right between the eyes as he climbed on top of her, needles to say his days of raping innocent woman are over, he had a rap sheet a mile long with three stints in prison for rape and it came out later that he had raped some 30 other woman and got away with it. I say let anyone that wants to pack a firearm make it legal and we will have fewer problems from the criminals in our world. I don't carry a weapon but I also have no fear of anyone with a gun since I am sure thats not how I will meet my end, also most people that use a gun even if they are criminals have the same problems anyone has when it comes to pulling the trigger, it is not as easy when you are looking at the person in the eyes. I am ex army ranger sniper and can tell you it's really hard to pull the trigger on another human being unless you have no feelings for life.

[celtic.blue.eyes]

While it may be true that if I had to kill another person, I would have to live with it the rest of my life, at least I'd be alive, and the bad guy wouldn't. And it's quite possible that ending the life of a criminal has saved the lives of many of his future victims. When one of us is going to get killed, I'd rather have it be the bad guy.

There are two quotes about guns that always come to mind when someone brings up the subject,
1) When Samuel Colt called his 6 gun "The Great Equalizer", and
2) It's better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.

Guess it's no secret that I support the Pink Pistols 100%

[GACountrygal]

Okay... here I go:


You're all insane. Those who carry guns, I think, are putting themselves at risk much more than not carrying a weapon.

Plus, what kind of message are we giving to the world if the TG community suddenly started packing a (second) piece? That we're an aggressive group ready to die for our beliefs... sorry, worse: to kill others for the freedom to dress how we like.

You wanna dress how you like - just put the damn clothes on, and walk out the door!! Don't risk your own and other's lives, just live it.

By sending a peaceful message out, it'll show the police and everyone else that we are above violence and aren't hurting anyone in our behaviour. That should be our aim - not self preservation by the wildest means. (PS: How many more f*cking "Tranny gets life for murder" headlines" do we wanna hear? We're already considered freaks and psychos by manny!)

Just don't carry them.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

hope you enjoy those rose colored glasses. I'd rather have a firearm instead of having some bad guy harm me or my kids or my SO possibly killing one of us.
I'm willing to kill if needed to protect my family, are you?

[nataliecd77]

I'm all for concealed carry and private firearms ownership! I'm a member of the NRA and have a carry liscense. The opinion that by having a gun will only make me die that much quicker or what not is perfectly fine with me, I'd rather go trying to stop something or somebody than go like a "sheep" meekly to my death. I wouldn't even have a problem with the "People" having automatic firearms look at the crime rates in Switzerland were most people are members of their national gaurd form of an army and routinely store their military issued weapons at home!!! I'm all for someone or anyone choosing not to carry or own a firearm, that's their choice and their "Right". But if I choose to do so it's my choice and my " Right", so leave me be about it.
I'd really prefer the option to use a firearm to take someones elses life to prevent them from taking mine or a member of my families! Could I live with it afterwards? Who knows, but at least I'd have to chance to do so. In my opinion weapons in the hands of honest law-abiding citizens pose few problems to anyone, weapons in the hands of unlawful criminal intent minded people, well what good would more laws do for that person????????
Natalie

Oh yeah btw Am I willing to kill for my family? You bet. Hell I was willing to kill or die for my Country also!!!!

[GACountrygal]

I'm all for concealed carry and private firearms ownership! I'm a member of the NRA and have a carry liscense. The opinion that by having a gun will only make me die that much quicker or what not is perfectly fine with me, I'd rather go trying to stop something or somebody than go like a "sheep" meekly to my death. I wouldn't even have a problem with the "People" having automatic firearms look at the crime rates in Switzerland were most people are members of their national gaurd form of an army and routinely store their military issued weapons at home!!! I'm all for someone or anyone choosing not to carry or own a firearm, that's their choice and their "Right". But if I choose to do so it's my choice and my " Right", so leave me be about it.
I'd really prefer the option to use a firearm to take someones elses life to prevent them from taking mine or a member of my families! Could I live with it afterwards? Who knows, but at least I'd have to chance to do so. In my opinion weapons in the hands of honest law-abiding citizens pose few problems to anyone, weapons in the hands of unlawful criminal intent minded people, well what good would more laws do for that person????????
Natalie

Oh yeah btw Am I willing to kill for my family? You bet. Hell I was willing to kill or die for my Country also!!!!

Well said Babe, and that last line goes for me as well.

Nic

[Andrea Nicole]

Hi,
I've had a CCW for over 25 years. I carry a .40 Sig about 75% of the time. I had numerous handguns, shotguns, and rifles in the house, in a big Browning double door gun safe. We had two boys who were taught what weapons are, and proper respect for them.
It is the parents responsibility to teach the children proper gun treatment, whether you are pro or anti gun. To say that since you have children in the home , ie....no guns in the house is foolish.
What if you child is at another home where some other child pulls out a gun ..... your child will KNOW to get out of there FAST..... that is what responsible gun education can do.
Do not let the libs take away our rights to have guns and the right to carry them. Then only the criminals will have them to terrorize us and our families.

Huggs,
Andi .....

[GACountrygal]

Hi,
I've had a CCW for over 25 years. I carry a .40 Sig about 75% of the time. I had numerous handguns, shotguns, and rifles in the house, in a big Browning double door gun safe. We had two boys who were taught what weapons are, and proper respect for them.
It is the parents responsibility to teach the children proper gun treatment, whether you are pro or anti gun. To say that since you have children in the home , ie....no guns in the house is foolish.
What if you child is at another home where some other child pulls out a gun ..... your child will KNOW to get out of there FAST..... that is what responsible gun education can do.
Do not let the libs take away our rights to have guns and the right to carry them. Then only the criminals will have them to terrorize us and our families.

Huggs,
Andi .....

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hugs:

[Andrea Nicole]

Hi...again..
Side-note...
We had two sons .... part of their 1st Birthday gifts were LIFE Memberships in the NRA. They went to Hunter Safety School, just like my grandsons are doing right now.
I did the same thing for each of my four grandsons regarding the LIFE Membership in the NRA. Ban the criminals, not guns. Stop coddling the vermin.
Take Care,
Andi .....

[AmandaM]

You'll die QUICKER with a gun in your hand, than without!

This is illogical. Think about it.

[brun123]

I dont see how people can be for the idea of carrying hand guns. If you look at the statistics around the world countries with strickter gun laws have less gun related deaths or injuries. Yes criminals will always be able to get guns but the harder it is for an average person to get a gun the harder it will for the average criminal. As for the person who stated that guns are not designed to kill......Here is a news flash they are....weather for hunting or so called "self defence". Yes you can target shoot but the only reason they were designed was to kill especially hand guns. As for the ex army ranger who states that if everyone was to carry a gun criminals would be less likley to pull a gun on someone....I would beg to differ. If you look at countries where it is harder to get guns criminals are more likely to use knives...what i am saying is a criminal will always try to one up you so they might start carrying automatic weapons. As for educating children about guns then it will be safe, thats bull. Yes the children will be safer but, we also educate kids not to smoke cigarettes and marijuana yet they do, we tell them not to lie but the do, ect. How can one say that having it easy to carry a gun will make it safer if you look at statistics around the world. I Think those self-rightious gun totting americans should take there heads out of there A@# and look around the world. Look at statistics not only from you countries sources but otheres, the North American news is full of propaganda so look other places not just locally...remember the truth is hiddin it is up to the individual to sort through the bull inorder to make an informed opinion.

[GACountrygal]

I Think those self-rightious gun totting americans should take there heads out of there A@# and look around the world.

I could say a lot of things to this. I wont. I dont feel like being banned.

I will say this.
Im an AMERICAN and PROUF OF IT! Its my constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and I will do so as I wish.
:2c:

[brun123]

I appologize for my rude comment. I am passonite about anti-gun laws and yes it is in your constitution to bear arms but that is a vague defanition which does not necassaraly mean to carry guns, per say....arms can also be missles, and automatic weapons it is a thin line as to what "bear arms" should be taken as.

again i appologize.

[nataliecd77]

no worries Brun,
we're pretty passionate about pro-gun rights ourselves so we can get a lil heated about it. As far as interpreting the Consitution to read auto's and missiles I'm not too sure that isn't what they meant! But that's a discussion for another time and other places also. I guess we can all safely agree to disagree?
Natalie

[brun123]

ps remember your country was founded on murder via guns.....aka the american war for independence....I am not stating that this was not justified just food for thought.

[nataliecd77]

The only offense that can be derived from that is Murder. It wasn't murder it was War. And war means death theres no way around it and " the tree of liberty requires the blood of patriots".
Natalie

[GACountrygal]

The only offense that can be derived from that is Murder. It wasn't murder it was War. And war means death theres no way around it and " the tree of liberty requires the blood of patriots".
Natalie

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Carin's Wife GG]

I am an out and proud liberal from California and I detest the idea of anybody carrying a concealed weapon. I grew up in a country where even the Police Force do not carry weapns.

My kids know about gun safety. Stay far away! When they were little you bet I asked if there were any guns in the house. Usually people were so taken abck they answered honestly and some playdates were cancelled.

We will never have a weapon of any kind in this house, plain and simple.

You probably wouldn't like my other political views either.


Louise.

[brun123]

I believe killing is murder weather in war or not. weather justified or not...murder is murder in my opinion. As for liberty it can be done through peacful methods, such as referendums and what not. look at Canada, Australi, Hong Kong, and many more.

[GACountrygal]

ALright, yall can think what ya want and I respect that. I will think what I want becuase its my right.

Politics like this is best left at the door.

And I am done here.. lest I get myself into serious trouble.

Nic

PS ADMIN CAN SOMEONE LOCK THIS THREAD? ITS GETTIN OUTTA HAND. THANKS

[nataliecd77]

I might or might not like some of your other political veiws but that really isn't an issue with me personally. You have the God given RIGHT to have and espouse your veiws, as do I. The only time veiws become a problem are when someones opinion is to restrict or remove the RIGHTS given to me not by man nor by government but by GOD! The same Rights that you have and enjoy, Freedom! The Freedom to say what you think, feel what you feel. To Love whom ever you love, the right to Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. These rights weren't meant to be bartered or given away for any reasons they were given so that every Freedom loving person could live their lives as they choose to!
Natalie

[AmandaM]

I can't believe the lack of reliable data in the arguments of those who prefer disarmed peasants.:devil:

[GACountrygal]

I can't believe the lack of reliable data in the arguments of those who prefer disarmed peasants.:devil:

:devil: :heehee: :p

[AmandaM]

I am an out and proud liberal from California and I detest the idea of anybody carrying a concealed weapon. Louise.

Is it preferable that they be beaten and robbed? What self-defense alternative do you offer to those who want to conceal carry?

[brun123]

Is it preferable that they be beaten and robbed? What self-defense alternative do you offer to those who want to conceal carry?

Martial arts, pepper spray, tazzer, rubber bullets, all non leathal weapons.

[brun123]

I can't believe the lack of reliable data in the arguments of those who prefer disarmed peasants.:devil:

reliable data - i have researched many sources from many parts of the world. How about you?

[nataliecd77]

Austrailia and Canade were allowed peaceful seperation from England only many years after the successful American Revolution. The major reason that was is Americans proved to the English Monarchy that the peasants not only could but would do what was necessary to perserve their natural rights. Most of these seperations from the Monarchy to the Commonwealth also only occured after Americans once again shed their blod in wars that really weren't necessary for them to join, we fought those wars so that others who also sought their Liberty who have a chance to do so!
Natalie

[AmandaM]

Martial arts, pepper spray, tazzer, rubber bullets, all non leathal weapons.

Good answer! I'm sure Granny in her wheelchair will sign up for those Kung Fu lessons right away! :devil:


Seriously, nothing is as effective as a gun. That's why they were made. Cause they work. Ask the Native Canadians, er, Americans.

[AmandaM]

reliable data - i have researched many sources from many parts of the world. How about you?

Yeah, like Mexico huh?:devil:

[GACountrygal]

oh yes, one more thing, if Im in a self defense situation, I dont want it to be hands on AT ALL. Just gives the bad guy better chance to do damage.

[nataliecd77]

oh btw a vast majority of the time rubber bullets are very lethal ask the Irish!
Pepper spray may annoy and hurt your aggressor but it won't incapcitate them until after they've done to you whatever they planned on doing! I know from training!
Tasers are also lethal alot of the times they are used ( plenty of lawsuits to the point currently in the U.S. legal system).
Martial arts are Ok, but really lack when facing an armed adversary ( yes I've studied some of those also.)
Oh yeah If you really want to know how well less than lethal options are in your defense ( after the confiscation of firearms) ask the 6 Million Jews of Nazi Germany! Oh wait!
Natalie

[AmandaM]

oh btw a vast majority of the time rubber bullets are very lethal ask the Irish!
Natalie

Well,if they would just "obey" the English, then they wouldn't get shot! :devil: Too bad (the Irish) they don't have guns.

[brun123]

Austrailia and Canade were allowed peaceful seperation from England only many years after the successful American Revolution. The major reason that was is Americans proved to the English Monarchy that the peasants not only could but would do what was necessary to perserve their natural rights. Most of these seperations from the Monarchy to the Commonwealth also only occured after Americans once again shed their blod in wars that really weren't necessary for them to join, we fought those wars so that others who also sought their Liberty who have a chance to do so!
Natalie

You show a very good point. I belive it is not the American revolution which was waht got the ball rolling for the common wealths but peacfull negtiations. There does not necassaraly have to be violence in order to create peace.

[GACountrygal]

Well,if they would just "obey" the English, then they wouldn't get shot! :devil: Too bad they don't have guns.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[nataliecd77]

Maybe you are right Brun but I beleive 2000 years of Christian history ( or however Million years If you beliveve in Evolution ) have shown that all to often the animal with the largest teeth ans the most will to use them has survived longer than the others!
Natalie

[AmandaM]

You show a very good point. I belive it is not the American revolution which was waht got the ball rolling for the common wealths but peacfull negtiations. There does not necassaraly have to be violence in order to create peace.

Of course, this was after they got rid of their pesky indigenous problems.

[brun123]

oh btw a vast majority of the time rubber bullets are very lethal ask the Irish!
Pepper spray may annoy and hurt your aggressor but it won't incapcitate them until after they've done to you whatever they planned on doing! I know from training!
Tasers are also lethal alot of the times they are used ( plenty of lawsuits to the point currently in the U.S. legal system).
Martial arts are Ok, but really lack when facing an armed adversary ( yes I've studied some of those also.)
Oh yeah If you really want to know how well less than lethal options are in your defense ( after the confiscation of firearms) ask the 6 Million Jews of Nazi Germany! Oh wait!
Natalie

again a good point...i was just giving some suggestions of less leathal options there are many out there and and more research needs to go into it. I must say i enjoy discussing with you, you have shown me many different point of views and i will use those in my future opionions thank you.

[nataliecd77]

Less than lethal options are available and there are times that they should be used but you never win any "game" by handicapping yourself at a distinct disadvantage when your opponent is not likely to follow the same rules of deescalation!
Natalie
"This We'll Defend" U.S. Army Motto.

[brun123]

I just hope in the future all violent weapons and ways to solve conflics such as war can be minimized to a much lower point than they are now. There is a need to defend ones self and hopefully we can evolve into a manner of less leathal methods than we are at now. Thank you all for you input and i value your opinons and will always use the information i have learnt through this thread in making future decisions.

[AmandaM]

We all wish war would go away. And violence of any kind. But, I don't think it will. To give you an idea of what gun-owners believe, I'll give you some info.

Guns are a part of the American psyche. It's in our blood. Gunowners view themselves as the inheritors of the Founding Fathers. We idolize George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and John Wayne. We attend movies like Braveheart and Lord of the Rings. Not just because they are good movies, but also because they show the down-trodden fighting for their freedom. We believe people should be peaceful, but we also believe in having the means to deal with them if they are not. We view with suspicion anyone who would try to take away our arms. Just like at Lexington and Concord where the British were sent to confiscate the armories. The colonists got there first. We equate weapons with free speech. It is considered essential to life and liberty. We consider it a natural right, not a right given to us by a piece of paper or government. In fact, gunowning Americans view anyone who would take our guns as Communists and Nazis. Afterall, if they can take away a natural right, they can take away any right. When you say "guns bad" or "register guns", your gunowning opponents consider you Adolf Hitler's favorite son. To be disarmed would mean we are capable of being subjugated. Just like the American Indian. In fact, with every subjugation in history, there is always disarmament. Every time! This is the psyche of the American gun-owner.

[nataliecd77]

Very concisely and eloquently said Amanda, much better than my attempts!
Love,
Natalie

[brun123]

We all wish war would go away. And violence of any kind. But, I don't think it will. To give you an idea of what gun-owners believe, I'll give you some info.

Guns are a part of the American psyche. It's in our blood. Gunowners view themselves as the inheritors of the Founding Fathers. We idolize George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and John Wayne. We attend movies like Braveheart and Lord of the Rings. Not just because they are good movies, but also because they show the down-trodden fighting for their freedom. We believe people should be peaceful, but we also believe in having the means to deal with them if they are not. We view with suspicion anyone who would try to take away our arms. Just like at Lexington and Concord where the British were sent to confiscate the armories. The colonists got there first. We equate weapons with free speech. It is considered essential to life and liberty. We consider it a natural right, not a right given to us by a piece of paper or government. In fact, gunowning Americans view anyone who would take our guns as Communists and Nazis. Afterall, if they can take away a natural right, they can take away any right. When you say "guns bad" or "register guns", your gunowning opponents consider you Adolf Hitler's favorite son. To be disarmed would mean we are capable of being subjugated. Just like the American Indian. In fact, with every subjugation in history, there is always disarmament. Every time! This is the psyche of the American gun-owner.

This is very interesting to me and goes against everything i believe in. I am not a communist or a Nazi but an advocate of freedom and peace. I dont understand you comment on considering an ant-gun person a communist or a Nazi. you talk of freedom and liberty but with that comes the fact that others will think diffently than you and as much as I dont agree with the Nazis and the way communisim was presented in the past, true freedom states that those people had the right to their views. Also true communisim I believe is a good thing, if you were to follow Marx and read the communist manifesto you would relize it is truley not the way we have seen it in the past and the only way to communisim in my opinion is through capitalism. Remember history has shown a cyclical nature with the rise and fall of great powers such as Rome, Brittan and some would say soon to be the United States of America. I wish to all that they educate themselves as much as possible and to make informed decisions. Read, listen, watch and respect even that with what you do not agree, it is only then that we can start to become informed. I belive in democracy and the goodness of people, yet at the same time i belive in greed. We must balance the good and the evil. "Salus Populi Supremis Lex: the public good is the greater law"

[nataliecd77]

I agree with the freedom to express opposing veiws thats not a problem. As far as communnist/nazi, everytime a tyrannical government has tried to suppress their people one of their first steps is to restrict and then confiscate the arms of their peoples be they swords or guns. An unarmed populace has no means to resist and therefore are nothing but "sheep" to be sent to slaughter! The point of the 2nd Admendment is that as long as "The People" have arms they have the means to resist tyranny! Communism in my mind no matter how pure Karl Marx or anyone else envisions it is still allowingthe community or govt usually to take what possesions are mine and redistribute them to others (wether they have worked for them or otherwise ) without my consent. And in my mind that whole concept is nothing but theft!
I totally agree with education and discussion of differing veiwpoints but I don't believe in subjugating my person or my morality simply for the well being of the community! Even considering the cyclic rise and fall of democratic societies in historical evidence, I made a vow, not on my watch, not without my blood! "To support and defend the Constitution of The United States of America so help me God." It might work the way you envision it, but it won't happen without my trying to stop said degenration into anarchy or tyranny!
Natalie

[brun123]

I agree with the freedom to express opposing veiws thats not a problem. As far as communnist/nazi, everytime a tyrannical government has tried to suppress their people one of their first steps is to restrict and then confiscate the arms of their peoples be they swords or guns. An unarmed populace has no means to resist and therefore are nothing but "sheep" to be sent to slaughter! The point of the 2nd Admendment is that as long as "The People" have arms they have the means to resist tyranny! Communism in my mind no matter how pure Karl Marx or anyone else envisions it is still allowingthe community or govt usually to take what possesions are mine and redistribute them to others (wether they have worked for them or otherwise ) without my consent. And in my mind that whole concept is nothing but theft!
I totally agree with education and discussion of differing veiwpoints but I don't believe in subjugating my person or my morality simply for the well being of the community! Even considering the cyclic rise and fall of democratic societies in historical evidence, I made a vow, not on my watch, not without my blood! "To support and defend the Constitution of The United States of America so help me God." It might work the way you envision it, but it won't happen without my trying to stop said degenration into anarchy or tyranny!
Natalie


I understand you position on the second amendment. I do think most of the developed world esp. that which was foundened from Western Europe such as North America has reached a point at wich democracy prevails and that guns are only need in our millitarys. I think that people should be able to arm themselves in a last attemt to help the masses in there views and to rise up form an oppressive government. I do think that the average person being able to carry a handgun though is going to far and does not have anything to do with defending ones rights to freedom. When was the last time Freedom was compremised in the US. To my knowledge the last time it was truly comprimised was WWII and that was handled by the millitary. A good example right now of peacful negotionations is Quebec in Canada. There have been several referendums regarding seperation of the province from Canada but the referendums have always voted towards staying with Canada. Aslo there was the FLQ who did raise arms but only caused terrorisim. Another example of raising arms against a government would be the Oklahoma City, Murrah building bombing. I find when people raise arms against there government now they are called terrorists. and although i do agree that you should be able to protect your rights. Times have changed in the past couple hundred years and maybe we need to update our laws and values (using the wrong word here) with the way our societies and govenments have grown.

[GACountrygal]

See my sig line, thats about as eloquently as I an put it at this point!!

Nic

[nataliecd77]

I understand you position on the second amendment. I do think most of the developed world esp. that which was foundened from Western Europe such as North America has reached a point at wich democracy prevails and that guns are only need in our millitarys. I think that people should be able to arm themselves in a last attemt to help the masses in there views and to rise up form an oppressive government. I do think that the average person being able to carry a handgun though is going to far and does not have anything to do with defending ones rights to freedom. When was the last time Freedom was compremised in the US. To my knowledge the last time it was truly comprimised was WWII and that was handled by the millitary. A good example right now of peacful negotionations is Quebec in Canada. There have been several referendums regarding seperation of the province from Canada but the referendums have always voted towards staying with Canada. Aslo there was the FLQ who did raise arms but only caused terrorisim. Another example of raising arms against a government would be the Oklahoma City, Murrah building bombing. I find when people raise arms against there government now they are called terrorists. and although i do agree that you should be able to protect your rights. Times have changed in the past couple hundred years and maybe we need to update our laws and values (using the wrong word here) with the way our societies and govenments have grown.

Ok you belive that poeple should be allowed to have arms to be able to overthrow someone who is oppressing them? Yet you can say I don't think the average person needs to have guns nowadays that's what the Militaries are for? What happens if or when a govt co-ops a military into supprssing the people who will be able to stand up then? Is a handgun a great defense against tnaks? Not really but it's a start and at least it gives you the option to do something about it! A good example of this is the Alamo! Yes they all died at the Alamo, but they didn't die in vain! Their sacrifice bought time for others to amr and train and realize the danger and prepare to do something about it. In the long run the Texans won. They won becuase some brave souls used their "arms" and shed their blood and lay down their lives so others might live in Freedom!
So if you ask me when a govt comes asking for my guns be it the UN or the Candain Govt or the British or my own, they ought not come expecting them to be freely given!
Natalie

[GACountrygal]

So if you ask me when a govt comes asking for my guns be it the UN or the Candain Govt or the British or my own, they ought not come expecting them to be freely given!
Natalie

ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!!!!!!
:thumbsup:

Nic

[brun123]

I think a good thing to remember is the civil rights movements and people such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Gahndi and what they have accomplished and there freedoms which they have stood upfor without the use of violence.

[GACountrygal]

kudos for them

I'm still gonna carry my .45 with me everywhere I legaly can. Id rather be alive instead of murdered by some thug.

[brun123]

As for myself I would rather die an admirable death by bieng the bigger person and not stooping to their level.

[GACountrygal]

:rolleyes:

[brun123]

you can roll your eyes all you would like but that is my opinion and I know i could die in peace then and not if i was to kill someone myself. I belive death is not the end and there is a lot to answer to afterwards.

[GACountrygal]

I understand. We're all entitled to our own opinion.
I respect yours (even if it dont seem like it I do)
I am just passionate about this, dont mind me if I seem a bit over the top.
I'll try and leave this thread alone now. Its gonna make my blood pressure rise lol

[brun123]

hehe
me too i think its time i leave. I geuss we both have passion just on oppiosite sides of the fence.

[Carin's Wife GG]

just quit making fun of the Irish and their plight. I grew up there and it was not an easy thing to witness.


Louise.

[Tamara Croft]

As you can't keep you arguments down to a dull roar, this thread is being closed.