How Do You Know?

[Lex]

How do you know you're a guy? What sealed the deal for you? I want to know how each of you figured out who you are.
If you don't mind of course. :)

[Kieron Andrew]

for me its weird....there wasnt alot of figuring out, its like ive always known, i looked at girls in gym class or on telly and thought ok yeah we may look alike but i dont feel im like them.....i looked at the guys and thought and felt far more comfortable being one of the lads and wanted the life they had.....gosh this hard to explain lol, but the short of it is ive always known :D

[Dasein9]

In my case, it was kind of an "Ooooohhhhhhh, that's what's going on!" moment. A bunch of things I hadn't related to each other before just came together. Like always hanging out with guys. Like feeling most comfortable in gay bars. Like having been jealous of my ex's clothes and having borrowed them as much as possible. Like being socially awkward and making other people uncomfortable. Like never being sure of what was expected of me. Like everyone assuming I'm a lesbian when I'm not. Like two of my nephews asking whether I was a girl or a boy, and never quite believing the answer. Like another nephew insisting I'm a boy, and even reaching up to check! Like the little old Italian ladies in my neighbourhood wanting to cook for me. Like never wanting to read books about girls when I was a kid. Like never referring to myself as a girl. Like never seeing myself as an adult woman.

It just kind of comes together. I'm a guy.

[Kieron Andrew]

A bunch of things I hadn't related to each other before just came together. Like always hanging out with guys. Like feeling most comfortable in gay bars. Like having been jealous of my ex's clothes and having borrowed them as much as possible. Like being socially awkward and making other people uncomfortable. Like never being sure of what was expected of me. Like everyone assuming I'm a lesbian when I'm not. Like never seeing myself as an adult woman.

It just kind of comes together. I'm a guy.
ok did you read my life history or what!! thats me!!!

[Dasein9]

There seems to be some kind of common theme here, doesn't there... ?

[CaptLex]

ok did you read my life history or what!! thats me!!!


There seems to be some kind of common theme here, doesn't there... ?

Actually, I think that's pretty much it . . . we usually know something isn't right, but we don't know what or why until we find the answer by process of elimination or default, and by seeing our own truth in others like us.

[Adam]

i don't actually remember the first time i new i should have been a boy because i have been saying it to my folks since i was a baby so they told me after i came out to them as in telling them i intend to transition.

but i no i am a guy because i feel so wrong being called she her and stuff and i hate my body and i no that i cant carry on a female therefore i no i am a guy and am working on changing it in order to get the best out of my life even if i am not 100% physically male i will get as close as i can to it you no the day i decided to actually do something about it is the best thing i ever done in my life!!!

OK not sure weather that was what you was asking though lol :D

[Dasein9]

Simone de Beauvoir said, "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman." Being a woman or a man in our culture (and perhaps any culture) is a lot more than having certain chromosomes or genitalia. It's about behaviour, expectations, possibilities for how to be in the world. It's about how much space we occupy, whether we adapt to the world or adapt it to ourselves, our relationships to each other, and who pursues whom in the sexual arena.

I know -- finally! -- that I'll never be anything but depressed if I keep trying to become a woman, because it is counter to who I am. The frustration was like having everyone in my life tell me that if I just flapped my arms hard enough, I'd be able to fly, and that my value as a human being was to be measured according to how high and long I flew.

It took a while, but I finally figured out how to say "Screw that!" and work with the possibilities that are available to me. All of a sudden, I'm a happy, confident human being that other people like to be around. (And it's kind of a shock!)

[Kieron Andrew]

Simone de Beauvoir said, "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman." Being a woman or a man in our culture (and perhaps any culture) is a lot more than having certain chromosomes or genitalia. It's about behaviour, expectations, possibilities for how to be in the world. It's about how much space we occupy, whether we adapt to the world or adapt it to ourselves, our relationships to each other, and who pursues whom in the sexual arena.

I know -- finally! -- that I'll never be anything but depressed if I keep trying to become a woman, because it is counter to who I am. The frustration was like having everyone in my life tell me that if I just flapped my arms hard enough, I'd be able to fly, and that my value as a human being was to be measured according to how high and long I flew.

It took a while, but I finally figured out how to say "Screw that!" and work with the possibilities that are available to me. All of a sudden, I'm a happy, confident human being that other people like to be around. (And it's kind of a shock!)
wow! what a well thought out post thats exactly whats going on for me!

[CaptLex]

The frustration was like having everyone in my life tell me that if I just flapped my arms hard enough, I'd be able to fly, and that my value as a human being was to be measured according to how high and long I flew.
Bravo - well put! :clap:


I'm a happy, confident human being that other people like to be around. (And it's kind of a shock!)
What's shocking, the being happy and confident part? Or that other people want to be around you? Neither should shock you - one leads to the other. :^5:

[Dasein9]

What's shocking, the being happy and confident part? Or that other people want to be around you? Neither should shock you - one leads to the other. :^5:

Both. They're just pretty new feelings. Or new, except for one brief period in my mid-20's, since I was 7 or so.

The last time I was this happy, guys came sniffing around, wanting to feed on that happiness. I was foolish enough to marry one of 'em. Now, I've got a second chance, and won't be that foolish again. Hence the new motto I told you about on Saturday.

[CaptLex]

Both. They're just pretty new feelings. Or new, except for one brief period in my mid-20's, since I was 7 or so.

The last time I was this happy, guys came sniffing around, wanting to feed on that happiness. I was foolish enough to marry one of 'em. Now, I've got a second chance, and won't be that foolish again. Hence the new motto I told you about on Saturday.
Well, I'm happy that you figured it out and that you're happy now (and I promise not to sniff). :tongueout

[Question Mark]

Man, I think Das pretty much said it for me, too.

My best friend even told me that I'd never given her a particularly feminine vibe. I guess I just never really identified as a woman.

Which leads to some confusion, because whenever I like someone I can never tell whether I have love crushes or "guy-crushes".

[Kieron Andrew]

(and I promise not to sniff). :tongueout
I think he means except you :heehee:

[Kieron Andrew]

My best friend even told me that I'd never given her a particularly feminine vibe. I guess I just never really identified as a woman.
my very first girlfriend was the first person i told, we had been friends for years before we even got together, when i told her she said 'is that all?, i always saw you as male anyway!'

[pocoyo]

Actually, I think that's pretty much it . . . we usually know something isn't right, but we don't know what or why until we find the answer by process of elimination or default, and by seeing our own truth in others like us.

Yeah totally!

I read something interesting about it in a book the other day actually (something about people that "just know" and people that "are confused" I think), but I don't have time to find it to quote now because I am rushing to get ready for work. When I find that bit I read about it I will tell you what it said though!

[Dasein9]

and I promise not to sniff

Eh? Huh?

Not you too!? :shocked: :nono:

No. You may not. Entirely unacceptable.

Thank you for your patience; we now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Dasein9]

Erm... guys...

You do know I was just kidding, right?


Right?

[Dasein9]

*As the uncomfortable silence continues, Das slinks back to the all-too-familiar territory of the socially awkward. *

[Kieron Andrew]

eh? huh! what did i miss?:heehee:

[Dasein9]

eh? huh! what did i miss?:heehee:


Paranoia.

I hope.

[Question Mark]

Something odd I remember is that when I was younger, I wanted to have a lower singing voice. I asked my dad if I would ever be able to sing like Kurt Cobain. He frowned and said, "No, you're a girl."

Also, when I was in an ensemble practice for my high school production of the Wizard of Oz, there was this piece we had to sing. The music instructor frowned about halfway through and said, "Wait. Who's singing tenor?"

Everyone immediately looked at me.

[Dasein9]

I always sang tenor in Choir. It was noticable because there were only female-bodied people in the class.

[Felix]

Hi Lex well things seem to have come full circle for me and thoughts I had as a child I am now tryng to sort out as an adult. Hopefully I will and then I will be my true self. At this moment my masculinity seems to be dominating everything except my spirit which I feel is not male. My maleness seems to be in my psyche. The funny thing is it has been other ppl who have made me realise that what I feel I can put into reality. I don't mean that I haven't got my own mind but rather that I have decided to stop fighting myself and to go with it and whatever it may bring. Hope this makes sense. xx Felix :hugs:

[CaptLex]

No. You may not. Entirely unacceptable.


eh? huh! what did i miss?

I have no idea . . . I got lost somewhere. :confused:


When I find that bit I read about it I will tell you what it said though!
Yes, please do, Poc . . . I'm curious about that now.

[bi_weird]

For me things weren't very clear cut. Prolly 'cause I'm not really a guy. I'm just not really a girl either.
I've never understood gender, and have always chafed at being put on the girls side of the line. I thought it was my mom's second wave feminism that made me want to be in the middle of the line, and didn't really consider I had gender issues until recently. Thing is, I've always wanted a lower singing voice, and have always been fascinated by gay guys, and other similar things cited above. I've also always had this overwhelming desire to buy mens clothes. I thought it was because women's fashion is so cheaply made and crappy looking, but really I like a lot of it...just on the girls I check out, not on me.
Last year I met a girl in my coming out group who didn't believe in gender, and she got me exploring my own thoughts about gender. That led, of course since I'm a college kid, to google and wikipedia searches on gender issues, which put me here. I also started borrowing male friend's clothes, and I'll never forget what it felt like the first time I put on a guys shirt for the first time as an article of clothing I was supposed to be wearing. There were also clandestine visits to the library to track down random books which I didn't really understand why I was reading. Since then it's just been this sort of falling into the realization that I've really always known this. I don't really fit in with boys or girls, but sort of both and neither at the same time.

[happyfish]

For me things weren't very clear cut. Prolly 'cause I'm not really a guy. I'm just not really a girl either.
I've never understood gender, and have always chafed at being put on the girls side of the line. I thought it was my mom's second wave feminism that made me want to be in the middle of the line, and didn't really consider I had gender issues until recently. Thing is, I've always wanted a lower singing voice, and have always been fascinated by gay guys, and other similar things cited above. I've also always had this overwhelming desire to buy mens clothes. I thought it was because women's fashion is so cheaply made and crappy looking, but really I like a lot of it...just on the girls I check out, not on me.
Last year I met a girl in my coming out group who didn't believe in gender, and she got me exploring my own thoughts about gender. That led, of course since I'm a college kid, to google and wikipedia searches on gender issues, which put me here. I also started borrowing male friend's clothes, and I'll never forget what it felt like the first time I put on a guys shirt for the first time as an article of clothing I was supposed to be wearing. There were also clandestine visits to the library to track down random books which I didn't really understand why I was reading. Since then it's just been this sort of falling into the realization that I've really always known this. I don't really fit in with boys or girls, but sort of both and neither at the same time.
:iagree: I'm with Bi. Again. You must be psychic or something because that's almost exactly how I feel.

[bi_weird]

Hah I'm just wonderful like that.

[John]

You know when kids are small, and all the little girls love playing with long hair and want to grow up to be hairdressers or balariners? I wanted to grow up to be robin hood. That really should have given the game away in the first place...

I had really short hair, toled everyone I wanted to be a boy, asked them to call be my a male name, and got misteken for a boy everywhere I went. Even the people that know I was technically femail never really seemed to think of me as complealy femail (I was always the exeption to the 'boys don't play with girls!' or 'never hit girls' rules in lower school).

Even when I 'gave it up' and did the whole conformity thing, I was boyish, hardlie ever wore scirts, and always uest to with I was a boy. I always juged myselg by male standads, and got jelous when I was stoped doing stuff all the boys where doing because I was a girl. Even when I came out as gay, I never like labeling myself as 'lezbian' (which was the probably why I cept my hair long).

And then I went to uni and met a transman, beame aperlutelly intreaged by the idear, and read all I could find on the internet.

All things considers, it makes me pretty stupid that I took so long to click.

[CaptLex]

All things considers, it makes me pretty stupid that I took so long to click.
So long? :eek: You want to talk about "so long" . . . ? How about knowing it absolutely at age 4 and then denying it for four decades? :p Ah . . . slap me. :slap:

[John]

O.K. *slap*

[bi_weird]

So long? :eek: You want to talk about "so long" . . . ? How about knowing it absolutely at age 4 and then denying it for four decades? :p Ah . . . slap me. :slap:

See Cap, you're of an older generation where that was expected. Us younger guys are supposed to get this quicker.
*cheeky grin*
Translation: You're OLD and SLOW.
*laughs* Sorry, I was around one of my brothers and my parents all weekend...just can't help but tease the old farts. Now's the proper time to duck and cover, correct?

[Kieron Andrew]

Now's the proper time to duck and cover, correct?
i dont want to be you when he reads this!

[CaptLex]

See Cap, you're of an older generation where that was expected. Us younger guys are supposed to get this quicker.
*cheeky grin*
Translation: You're OLD and SLOW.
*laughs* Sorry, I was around one of my brothers and my parents all weekend...just can't help but tease the old farts. Now's the proper time to duck and cover, correct?
:eek: I was gonna do my Rodney Dangerfield impression ("I tell ya, I get no respect"), but if you don't know who that is, then it'll just prove your point. :p

Kieron, what's the matter with you?! You're supposed punish the men that don't show the captain proper respect? Why is this man still about? Clap him in irons and show him to the brig! Never mind, I'll do it myself . . . this way, whippersnapper! :devil:

Ouch, John, you slapped me . . . think that'll leave a bruise?

44903

[John]

watch out bi, the captin wants to tie you up and disiplin you :lol:

[Kieron Andrew]

Kieron, what's the matter with you?! You're supposed punish the men that don't show the captain proper respect? Why is this man still about? Clap him in irons and show him to the brig! Never mind, I'll do it myself . . . this way, whippersnapper! :devil:
its the holiday 3 day weekend!!! i aint working!

[bi_weird]

Aw shucks, shoulda run faster, I let an old guy catch me!
http://http://prisonsfoundation.org/jpg/box.jpg

[CaptLex]

Aw shucks, shoulda run faster, I let an old guy catch me!
http://http://prisonsfoundation.org/jpg/box.jpg
Oh . . . I'm gonna enjoy this! :dom: :devil:

[bi_weird]

Oh I'm sure you are...