Interesting stuff

[Sharon]

This is quite lengthy, but a fair indicator of some people's mindset about you and me, and the fact that we shouldn't have the same rights as they have:

Freedom for All Except...

Michael Craven
(Author, Speaker, Founding Director of the Center for Christ &
Culture)
Crosswalk.com
02 April 2007

http://www.crosswal k.com/blogs/ mCraven/11536163 /

One of our most treasured freedoms in this nation is codified in the
First Amendment to the Constitution, which states "Congress shall
make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of
the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances."

In particular is the right to public dissent and the freedom to
express personal opinions that criticize specific ideas, positions,
policies, and institutions. This freedom is essential to a free
society in which ideas are allowed to compete for acceptance.
Conversely this freedom also allows for the public condemnation of
ideas that are believed to be false, and harmful to persons and
society. This is essential to healthy debate within a pluralistic
society where ideas, both good and bad, have the right to be
expressed. It is this form of pluralism that then allows for such
concepts as conversion. Opposing ideologies can freely compete for
supremacy in the marketplace of ideas and observers can be converted
to one position or the other based upon the merits of the given
arguments, evidence and facts.

Practically, this means that even the most offensive ideas have the
right to be expressed. This is necessary because there can be no
attempt to preempt "offensive ideas" without first establishing an a
priori standard that says some ideas are bad and of course this
requires judgment of some kind from someone. This is precisely what
the First Amendment is designed to limit - the right of "someone" in
a position of governmental power to judge some speech acceptable and
some not. Granted this is not an unlimited right; obscenity,
slander, and libel are not protected under the First Amendment but
the central aim of this amendment was to limit the government's
suppression of the broadest possible expression of ideas and
opinions.

Today, legislators in the House of Representatives are pushing for a
"discharge petition" to force a vote on the Local Law Enforcement
Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2001, (LLEHCPA), H.R. 1343, another
federal Hate Crimes bill that would add "sexual orientation, gender,
gender identity and disability" to current hate crimes law.
Introduced by Reps. John Conyers (D-MI) and Mark Kirk (R-IL), this
one has more than 100 cosponsors. LLEHCPA would authorize the
Justice Department to conduct local law enforcement hate crimes
training, and to conduct expanded hate crimes investigations and
prosecutions.

This legislation will ban alleged discrimination based on sexual
orientation, whether actual or perceived, as well as "gender," which
include the categories of transgender, cross-dresser, or
transvestite. To be clear, I do not advocate denying the natural
rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to any person
solely on the basis of their bad habits. However, neither do I
advocate encouraging or sanctioning bad habits which impede persons
in their reasonable and moral use of those rights.

The purpose of "hate crimes" legislation, in this instance, is to
apply this preemptive aspect mentioned above, in order to render any
speech opposing the legitimacy and promotion of homosexuality
illegal, because such speech or even expressed thoughts constitute
"hate." Thus it inhibits the rights of those who resist the
imposition of homosexual morality to disagree and brings the power
of the state to bear on those who do.

In a bit of irony, the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee
is also actively promoting this legislation which would also serve
to suppress any public criticism of Islam. It is ironic in that, if
Muslims were able to achieve their long-term goal of bringing this
nation under Sharia' Law, persons engaging in homosexuality would
suffer severely. Politics does indeed make strange bed-fellows.

Michael Marcavage, director of Repent America makes the point that
"Truth is not allowed as evidence in hate crimes trials. A
homosexual can claim emotional damage from hearing Scripture that
describes his lifestyle as an abomination. He can press charges
against the pastor or broadcaster who merely reads the Bible in
public. The 'hater' can be fined thousands of dollars and even
imprisoned!"

As World Net Daily has reported, such laws already have been used
around the world, where in Canada pastors are fearful of reading
biblical injunctions against homosexuality, and in Australia where
two pastors were convicted of "vilifying" Islam. Britain's recent
Hate Crimes Bill goes so far as to limit the rights of a private
religious school's ability to teach that homosexual behavior is
immoral or thought to be wrong.
Peter LaBarbera, of Americans for Truth noted that in both Canada
and France, legislators have been fined for publicly criticizing
homosexuality. Three years ago, a Swedish hate crimes law was used
to put Pastor Ake Green, who preached that homosexuality is a sin,
in jail for a month. "And recently, a British couple told how they
were denied the chance to adopt because it was determined that their
Christian faith might 'prejudice' them against a homosexual child
put in their care," LaBarbera added.
Already in the United States, Catholic Charities of Boston halted
all adoption operations in the state last year after being told
under Massachusetts' pro-gay nondiscrimination law, only agencies
that placed children in homosexual-led households would get licensed
by the state. And, the indoctrination into pro-homosexual thinking
is well-entrenched in corporate where voicing one's dissent will
quickly result in termination or "counseling. "

Our nation is increasingly falling under the influence of those who
want to live in "a way that seems right to them but in the end leads
to death" and they are willing to do all they can to silence any and
all who disagree. The greatness of this nation is, in the end, found
only in a set of ideas and values. When these ideas and values cease
to serve as our foundation; this nation, as we know it, will no
longer exist and the freedom to follow Christ and press His Kingdom
will be greatly limited. This may be the Lord's will for this time
but nowhere does such oppression give us license to be unfaithful in
pressing the Truth.

I urge you to contact your representatives today and voice your
opposition to this destructive legislation. You can locate and
contact your elected representatives here: http://www.house. gov/

--
S. Michael Craven is the Founding Director of the Center for Christ
& Culture, a ministry of the National Coalition for the Protection
of Children & Families. The Center for Christ & Culture is dedicated
to the renewal and reformation of society through the renewal and
reformation of the Church. For more information on the Center for
Christ & Culture, additional resources and other works by S. Michael
Craven visit: www.battlefortruth. org

Michael lives in the Dallas area with his wife Carol and their three
children.

C 2007 by S. Michael Craven
CCopyright 2007, SalemWebNetwork. com. All rights reserved.

[celtic.blue.eyes]

And if something like this passes, what will be next. I can see it now... it will be a hate crime to say anything against a politician. We'll be better off if we earn acceptance, rather than trying to shove it down someone's throat, for they will surely choke on it.

[Teresa Amina]

to live in "a way that seems right to them but in the end leads to death"

This one always amuses me (in a sad way). I've noticed that everyone dies eventually, and those who die young are as likely to be virtuous as those who live to a very old age. In fact those who live long and materially prosperous lives are as likely to be lying shysters and hatemongers as saints.
It was once said that "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"; perhaps bible thumping is one of the first?

[JeanneF]

What I'll never understand is how is it some great affront to the "family" to acknowledge that people who differ from the norm in their gender identity or sexual orientation are also human and entitled to have the right to not be killed because they are different. I understand that they think that all this is a sin (disregarding of course that it is how we're wired...this isn't exactly a choice), but isn't' one of the tenets of Christianity "Hate the sin, not the sinner"?

Makes me very glad that I'm Jewish. At least my faith isn't so hypocritical that we teach love but are hateful in our actions. :rolleyes:

[Charleen]

Scary. Very scary! I'm not gonna touch on religion.

[Priss]

Isn't it just wonderful how they tend to use our own freedoms to justify being able to say and do whatever they want without any respect to anyone else? A simple fact is that with freedom comes responsibility. It occurs to me that if people such as himself would take a little responsibility for what comes out of their mouths, pens, keyboards, and start treating everyone with the respect that they deserve as fellow human beings, that no one would ever have to push for such laws like this.

Michael Marcavage, director of Repent America makes the point that
"Truth is not allowed as evidence in hate crimes trials. A
homosexual can claim emotional damage from hearing Scripture that
describes his lifestyle as an abomination. He can press charges
against the pastor or broadcaster who merely reads the Bible in
public. The 'hater' can be fined thousands of dollars and even
imprisoned!"

Unfortunatly in this world, one man's truth is another man's hoax perpetrated on the whole of society. Somehow Iam sure that's exactly what he'd say about global warming...

[Question Mark]

Oh god no! Not the homosexuals and transsexuals! God knows America needs more people to have lots of heterosexual sex, without a condom, for purposes of reproduction. We must restock our child supply in order to brainwash the next generation into good breeding Americans!

Seriously. I'm convinced that this is what they think.

[Marcie Sexton]

Yep that is what our society has come to, laws to protect others, then laws to repeal the laws that protect, then laws that repeal the repealed laws that were suppose to protect us...sounds as though the law of common sense has been out lawed...and to think that is what is "leading our country":rolleyes:

God help us all...

ooooops, I may have just broke a law mentioning god's name....

AMAZING !!!!

[melissaK]

The Age of Reason has its Luddites . . . or in pop culture parlance, "crazy is as crazy does."

Hugs to all,
'lissa

[Maggie Kay]

The essence of this man's opposition to the legislation is that because of a side effect inhibiting his speech, that it must be permissible to persecute TG people. His right to "say" something comes before the right to safety of another. It is an interesting turn of events as it assumes that TG and gay people can be legislated out of existence. Apparently it is proper to deny TG people a job, i.e. Stanton in Largo FL. Is he supposed to just vanish?
If there is an agenda, it seems that we are to be shunned from society until there are no more of us. It won't work and though out history it never has.

[AmberTG]

Personally, I don't have a problem with him having an opinion about us, he can think what he wants, it's when people like him use their opinion to deny us our basic civil rights that I have a problem. It's like that general saying that homosexuallity is bad (I forgot exactly the words he used), that's his opinion and he's entitled to it, but when he uses that opinion to deny a gay man his right to proudly serve his country in the military, that's where I have the problem. Protecting our civil rights as humans and American citizens must be more important than anyone's opinion of our morality.
Amber Darlene

[Sarahgurl371]

I don't have nothing nice to say, so I am going to say nothing.

[loriannetucson]

It's interesting how he lumps transexuals with homosexuals, as if sexual orientation and gender identity are essentially one and the same. While I support LGB rights along with T rights, these kind of ingnorant people should get their facts straight before they try to act like they know what the heck they're talking about.

"Lock your doors! The homosexuals and transsexuals will come into your home and then steal and eat your children!"

Sheez, what a moron. Oh, and I generally like the website that he posted on! Not in this case, though!

[Joy Carter]

Girls, this is just one man's views. I'd not get up set about it. But then maybe he should be killed for his views or way of life.:rolleyes:
I think we should accept others as we accept our selves. Or we surely will be standing on a slippery slope.

[AmberTG]

The politics of hate is much easier for him then us. It's much easier for him to push his agenda then it is for us to push ours. The biggest problem is that we don't fear and hate people like him for who they are the way he fears and hates us for who we are. Like their sins of hypocrisy and judgement are less sinful than our "sins" of being transgendered.
Anyway, it's easier to poison the minds of others, than it is for us to defend against it when so many people are closed minded.
The closer we get to actually gaining our legal civil rights protections, the louder people like this will become, as their fear grows. We have the same rights to protection and "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as he has. We just need it in writing so that people like him cannot deny that to us on the basis of what they think. They don't like being persecuted in Moslum countries for their faith, yet, they're willing to persecute us for our birth defect. Hypocrisy.

[Sharon]

Girls, this is just one man's views. I'd not get up set about it. But then maybe he should be killed for his views or way of life.:rolleyes:
I think we should accept others as we accept our selves. Or we surely will be standing on a slippery slope.

The point of me posting this article isn't to deny this person the right to express his thoughts, but in how these people justify not allowing us the same rights as he enjoys.

I accept anyone who gives me the same freedoms they expect for themselves.:rolleyes:

[Siobhan Marie]

I accept anyone who gives me the same freedoms they expect for themselves.

Sharon, I so totally agree with you.

huge :hugs: and *cuddles*

Anna Marie x

[Joy Carter]

The point of me posting this article isn't to deny this person the right to express his thoughts, but in how these people justify not allowing us the same rights as he enjoys.

I accept anyone who gives me the same freedoms they expect for themselves.:rolleyes:

Sharon, just how had he stopped any of us not being our selves ? My point in posting is that he, and we, all have the blessing of free speech. I truly doubt whether he knows a thing about the transgendered and will never know. I wouldn't worry about him or what he says.

[claireswife-gg]

Umm, not shoving anything down anyone's throat. This does not tell people what they can say, it only applies to acts of actual violence. There needs to be a way to counter the "gay panic" defense.

Read the FAQ - it's important to know what it is! (http://www.civilrights.org/assets/pdfs/HRC-LLEHCPA-FAQ1-17-07.pdf)

Still think it isn't needed? First, take a look at the name of the forum you are in and then go to Remembering Our Dead (http://www.gender.org/remember/#)


And if something like this passes, what will be next. I can see it now... it will be a hate crime to say anything against a politician. We'll be better off if we earn acceptance, rather than trying to shove it down someone's throat, for they will surely choke on it.

[Laura Jane]

I fall very firmly into the live and let live category. I defend the right of a preacher to quote the New Testament of the bible and say that such and such a lifestyle or action is sinful or harmful. I do also expect that these preacher to abide by the judge not lest ye be judged maxim of Matthew (For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged) as well.

Some lifestyles are dangerous and self harming, no one bats an eye when the government preaches anti drugs, anti smoking and anti drinking messages. Some of the behaviour on the gay nightclub scene is very harmful and dangerous and it is right to point this out as well.

On the TG side, some of the self medication that goes on is also very harmful and again it would be right to speak out and try and make it harder to do such things to yourself.

Of course certain people can't resist using that small window of proper criticism to climb in and beat up what ever behaviour they find disagreeable. Strange thing is they are often motivated by trying to save the people they are attacking!

Of course quoting certain passages of the OT or Koran is basically incitement to murder and is a whole different can of worms!