Do you really feel like a woman?

[Elizabeth Ann]

I'm pretty new at this, although I am 56 years old. Several years ago, I started occasionally wearing panties. It was obviously a sexual thing, although as a married hetersexual male, I didn't really understand the thrill.

Over the years, as my wife's interest in sex cooled considerably, the majority of my sex life was solitary and in the shower. In that context, I began experimenting with more cross dressing during the past year, and it has become a significant source of pleasure for me. My wife knows and tolerates the panties. I would tell her the rest if she asked, but she hasn't.

I guess what I want to know is: is this an evolutionay process? Everyone here keeps talking about feeling like a woman, and seems to delight in taking on that role.

I don't feel like a woman. In fact, I don't know what I feel. I put on the clothes. I look in the mirror. I sit at the computer and take pleasure when I look down at my pantihose and skirt clad leg. I go about my daily business with a bit more happiness. But I feel like no one else than myself. I don't feel feminine, or really any desire to do so. Curiously, I have noticed without any plan to do so that the frequency of m______ (that shower thing that I'm not sure I'm allowed to say) has significanly reduced since I started this.

Obviously, this cross dressing has something to do with femaleness, or there wouldn't be any point to it. Whether it is "gender" related or "sex" related, I don't know. In fact, I don't understand this at all.

And I really don't understand this feeling like a woman thing. I picked the name Elizabeth when I joined this forum because it seemed like the thing to do. But there really isn't an Elizabeth, and I don't know if there ever will be.

Elizabeth (or Larry)

Thanks for all the responses. Please note the clarification I made below and quote here:

Clarification
Thanks very much for the replies.

I'm sorry if my language was imprecise. I certainly agree that no one knows how it feels to be the other gender, or really to be anyone else than themselves.

What I meant was that many on this forum say that when they cross dress, they take on a new identity/personality/emotional state/etc., and that this change is, to their way of thinking, feminine. That is, they "feel like a woman" in whatever sense they understand that to be. It is decidedly an internal transition, not an emulation of another individual, but a transition nonetheless.

That's what I don't feel and don't really understand. When I put on a dress, I'm just me in a dress. It brings pleasure but I don't feel any change in personality, gestalt, sexual orientation, or other phenonoma described on the forum.

That's what I would like to understand. I sense changes within me, but not this one, which frankly I regard with ambivalence.

Elizabeth

[Leslie Foxx]

Elizabeth,
Yes, there are times when I feel like what I think a woman feels like, and I love it. The sexual "stimulation" of dressing has passed for me, but I do feel sexy when en femme.

My urge to dress began at an early age. I'll be 59 next month.

As long as it makes you happy, and harms no one else, what's the problem? Explore and be who you are.

[silkybillie]

Yes!
Thats what its all about!

[Mary Jane]

I do not feel like a woman. Well, how would you really know since we are NOT women? I just feel like ME when I dress.

[danielle_from_cal]

I think that most of us use the expression "feeling like a woman" to mean that we feel "right"; dresssing as many women do makes us feel like we are dressed appropriately. We cannot really know how women feel. It would be presumptuous to assume that all people of any gender feel the same as each other or that we feel like any of them.

I often say to people when I am dressed (and often think to myself) that I feel "so feminine". I overuse the term. Really, I just feel "right".

[Brianna Lovely]

I don't know about that, but I do know that I'm a TG person.

I'm more than a man.

More happy, more relaxed, more loving, more tolerant, more accepting and more emotional. If any of these things, bring me closer to understanding how a woman feels, then yes, I feel like a woman.

If nothing else, since accepting myself, for who I am, I've never been happier.

[Wenda]

I understand the different experiences. When I am on this forum, I am femme, and all the people here are femme.
I went through a period of several months when dressing actually suppressed sexual urges, completely. For me, the various aspects of dressing ebb and flow.
One thing i have discovered however, if I relieve myself when dressed, I immediately loose the urge to remain dressed. Not sure if it is a repressed guilt reaction or something physiological, psychological or ???. w. :2c:

[Kate Simmons]

Not sure what a woman feels like, Hon. I guess I just feel like myself mostly, whether I'm expressing and presenting myself in a way associated with the way women do or not.:happy:

[Teresa Amina]

I don't think "feel like a woman" means a lot. What can we compare how we feel with? Most people are just Themselves. No questions, no conflicts, no longing for "otherness". So any particular woman would probably just give you a certain "must be crazy" look if you asked her what it felt like to be herself.
I don't presume to know how it feels to be a woman and so stop short of saying I do. But when formed, padded, wigged and otherwise Teresa-fied I feel real good and like very much what I see in the mirror. Oooooh! So close!

[Daintre]

I have to agree with the majority of answers here, it feels "right". We cannot know how a woman truly feels, we can only be ourselves and if this needs to be shown by wearing female clothes at times, well alright then.

[linnea]

I feel comfortable; I feel many very pleasant sensations that come with the softness and other texture of women's clothing; I feel that a part of my personality (what I have come to think of as a feminine part) is very fully and freely expressed. I don't know what a woman feels, though I can empathize with what I believed to be some feminine thoughts and feelings and in that sense I can share those feelings.
I enjoy dressing now more than ever after over fifty years of doing it. It is occasionally stimulating sexually, but in my most recent decade of doing it, it is mostly matter of overall contentment and fulfillment.

[Sally24]

There are sexual crossdressers where the whole thrill is about the clothes and not "feeling feminine". There are a whole range of different reasons for dressing and reactions to the experience. Your experience may change with time, but it may stay the same. Some people progress to different levels but others enjoy what they started with and don't change. You'll just have to see how you feel as time goes on.

Sally

[Missy]

I do not or ever felt like a woman when in fem I just love to wear as much weman clothing when ever I can. for some reason I look in the mirrior and see a man tring too look like a woman but never making it passable. as far as feeling like a woman I have no recall of feeling like a woman
I started dressing when I was 7 or so and now I am 45

Missy

[janey]

I think my goal in crossdressing is to feel more like a woman, in having smooth legs, wearing perfume, silky lingerie, sexy dresses, makeup, breastforms and a wig. If I had a magical ring that would turn me into a woman when I wore it, I'd wear it more then not! I think most of us love that feeling and have a desire to feel womanly, to be womanly, that's why we take on the female outside, to match our feelings inside.

[joann07]

The moment I am fully dressed, and slip on my heels, I feel like a woman.
There's just something about it that switches me from male to female mode.
I feel more relaxed and less stressed.

[Jenny Wilson]

Like many of the rest of you, I don't know what it feels like to "feel like a woman." Heck, I'm not even sure if I know what it feels like to feel like a man. I just know how it feels like to be me, whether I'm in drab or en femme.

One thing I know is that I definitely feel different when I'm en femme, and I like how it feels.

Jenny

[Byllie]

Feel like a woman? Not really. Rather, I feel like me, the *whole* me. There's nothing like whering a comfy skirt and top and watching the tellly.

[Edwina]

Like many of the rest of you, I don't know what it feels like to "feel like a woman." Heck, I'm not even sure if I know what it feels like to feel like a man. I just know how it feels like to be me, whether I'm in drab or en femme.

One thing I know is that I definitely feel different when I'm en femme, and I like how it feels.

Jenny

That about sums it for me too. :happy:

Edwina

[Holly]

I feel like what I think it feels like to feel like a woman... that's as close as I think I can get. Probably a long way from reality. Then again I only feel like what I think it feels like to be a man as well. I'd be very surprised if any two of us could agree what it felt like to be one or the other (or both). Maybe we'd be better off feeling happy about how we feel about ourselves.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Thanks very much for the replies.

I'm sorry if my language was imprecise. I certainly agree that no one knows how it feels to be the other gender, or really to be anyone else than themselves.

What I meant was that many on this forum say that when they cross dress, they take on a new identity/personality/emotional state/etc., and that this change is, to their way of thinking, feminine. That is, they "feel like a woman" in whatever sense they understand that to be. It is decidedly an internal transition, not an emulation of another individual, but a transition nonetheless.

That's what I don't feel and don't really understand. When I put on a dress, I'm just me in a dress. It brings pleasure but I don't feel any change in personality, gestalt, sexual orientation, or other phenonoma described on the forum.

That's what I would like to understand. I sense changes within me, but not this one, which frankly I regard with ambivalence.

Elizabeth

[DawnRodgers]

I guess that I just try to act, talk and attempt to look and present as much like a woman as I can. I liie the feel and look of the clothes, try to wear outfits that show off my best features, wear full makeup, polish on my fingers and toes, jewelry, perfume - anything and everything to look, smell and feel like a woman. Love the feeling and would truly want to live 24/7 as a woman.
Want all, the good and the bad, of that existence. When fully Dawn I am happier than I have ever been as a man. My mind sees no down side, although, at times I do often wonder what it would truly be like.
Also wonder that if I was born as a woman, would I want to be a man?
Dawn

[loriannetucson]

No one can tell you who you are except YOU. I always enjoyed dressing as a girl when I was younger, but that was because I ultimately came to terms with my Gender Identity Disorder. I realized that I was "crossdressing" because my mind thought that I SHOULD be dressed like that because that was who I was. I don't feel like a man as much as I feel like a woman (thanks Shania!). I look like a man but I know I am a woman inside me. Seeing a therapist can help you to determine who you are at your core. You see, even when I dream, I oftentimes dream that I'm female, and that speaks a lot about my core identity. If you simply enjoy wearing female clothing, are aroused by wearing women's clothing, you might find that is all you are and not desire for anything else.

I would recommend reading the sexual identity "disorders" in the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual IV, the "bible" for psychologists and social workers. I clearly meet all the criterion for gender identity disorder. I will not let others tell me who I am or am not any longer.

Hope this helps,
Lori Anne

[Stephenie S]

What everyone is stumbling about here is the fact that you can't "feel like a woman". Women don't "feel" any diffrent than men "feel". Women are PEOPLE just like you. People feel like people. Individuals feel like individuals.

What we CAN do is feel what it's like to wear clothes generally belonging to the oposite sex, ie, women. You will only ever be able to "feel" like you because you are only you.

BUT, . . . Can you feel what it's like to wear a bra? Of course.
Can you feel what it's like to wear a dress? Of course.
Can you feel what it's like to wear high heels? Of course.
You can even feel what it's like to have a vagina if you want to
go through all that surgery.

Well that's just exactly what it feels like when a woman wears a bra, a dress, high heels, etc. There's no real mystery here. Women are not some strange species. They are people and they "feel" just like you "feel".

What does it feel like to be a woman? That's just as impossible a question to answer as, "What does it "feel" like to be a man, or what does it "feel" like to be short, or what does it "feel" like to be tall? But we can answer the question of 'What does it "feel" like to dress like a woman'. Just put on their clothes. THAT'S what it "feels" like. But it's still you, sweetie.

We can grow our hair long, peirce our ears, shave our legs, diet all the time, obsess about our wardrobe, learn to wear makeup, etc, etc. All we will ever know is what it feels like to do all those things. But we are still only us, and that's all a woman will "feel" when she does exactly the same thing. She knows what it feels like to have long hair, she knows what it feels like to have pierced ears, she knows what it feels like to shave her legs, diet all the time, obsess about her wardrobe, wear makeup, ONLY to the extent that she does those things. After that, she is only herself, and will only ever "feel" like herself. And, after that, you are only yourself, and you will only ever "feel" like yourself.

Just MHO.

Stephie

[cindychan]

I think I feel the closest approximation to a woman can short of hormones. :hugs:

[sandra-leigh]

I guess what I want to know is: is this an evolutionay process? Everyone here keeps talking about feeling like a woman, and seems to delight in taking on that role.

In the past couple of days, I've posted a couple of times about how dressing in womens clothing has become a comfortable part of my life. Clothing that could be for either gender, or clothing that is not commonly worn by men but is not so different that people notice anything strange. Even some things that are clearly blouses can be worn with bra and forms without people paying attention, if your forms aren't too big and you aren't sitting right across from someone who is paying attention to you. And tonight I ate out with a stretch top and bust that was definitely a bust to anyone who looked.

This wearing of womens' clothes in everyday life just starts to seem natural and appropriate -- they become the clothes that "look good today", just like there's probably a bunch of shirts in your closet that just don't catch your interest anymore. Wearing clothes that pass within the limits of social tolerance (which also tolerates fashions such as Goth!) stops being "exciting" (yes, in that way) and becomes normal. It stops being risque. Now, I do admit that my wearing a clear bust tonight was still a bit risque for me -- but on the other hand, I've gone out for hours at a time wearing large forms (40G bra) under tops that don't emphasize the bust, and it hasn't been risque at all. Wearing forms that people are likely not to pay attention to, starts feeling normal and desirable as well -- there is something about having "breasts" that just feels right to a lot of crossdressers. I've said it and a number of others here have said it: get a pair of silicon forms that are the right size for your body and comfort level, and they will likely almost immediately feel like something was missing before you put them on. I'm not saying that the idea of actually having a C or D or whatever cup will no longer be a turn on, but the reality quickly becomes that wearing the forms for hours just feels like the right thing to do, not "exciting" most of the time (except when you are deliberately showing them off.)

So I wear womens' clothes when I'm "presenting" as a male, and I wear forms "non-obviously" (but there for the unusually observant) when presenting in "guy" mode. The closer I get to having noticably female clothes or bust while still "presenting" as male, the more I am "gender-bending". A fair number of people on the forums would not feel comfortable with the possibility of someone noticing the non-male aspects; for me, sitting on the borderline seems right for me -- I've incorporated those things into my everyday life, as part of me. And sometimes I say, "What the heck?" and go out wearing a skirt (usually a long one) with otherwise male appearance; doing so has seldom been a problem of any sort.

That all said: there are times when I get all dressed up, in obviously female clothes, with forms (shape obvious or not depending on what I'm wearing), wig and makeup, perhaps some jewelry too such as earrings. These times, when I go over to a complete female look, feel quite different. When I go out like that, I am sort of becoming a different person, at least in the eyes of the world, and I expect to be treated differently, and I feel differently about myself, and I have reactions that my male self cannot easily explain. For example, while Dressed, there was a guy in a bar who said (sincerely) "Nice legs!", and that made me feel good, as did the time last summer that a guy I passed while crossing the street said "Outstanding!", referring to the way my legs and butt appeared in the skirt. And just a few days ago when I was fully dressed, another (male) crossdresser took me by the hand to lead me somewhere, and I felt a thrill at it. Guys smile, guys hold doors -- and I love the attention. Not so much so that I go fishing for compliments, and I don't dress up "sexy" hoping to "reel in" someone for awhile... but I feel good and excited about dressing sexy in hopes that people (men and women) will be kinda turned on by seeing me. Last week I was wearing a nice (professional-looking) dress and dark black nylons that looked sexy, and was talking to a guy (in a LGBT bar) who was (without question) aware I was a crossdresser, and he asked me to "show some leg" -- and I didn't hesitate to flip my skirt back more for a moment, wanting me-the-female to be appreciated. When I'm nicely Dressed, something inside inside me is no longer firmly anchored to being a male, to reacting as a male. It might not be "feeling like a woman", but what else to call it when the instinctive feelings are no longer those we're accustomed to as a male? For lack of a better expression, it is an "altered state of mind".

When I am Dressed, I don't lose any of my appreciation for women, and indeed I rather like it when a woman sees me as a crossdresser and likes that I crossdress. Unfortunately, I'm not good enough yet to pass as a woman to a woman who is paying attention to me, so I haven't experienced that altered state in my reactions to women. Someone posted a couple of months ago of passing well enough in a washroom that a woman asked if they had any tampons; I imagine it would be a thrill to feel treated as a woman by a woman. And I can always dream about having a lesbian hit on me :devil:

[susiej]

With permission of the original poster of this thread, to skip the existential, theoretical question of how any single person/creature can know how it "feels like" to be another, here's my answer.

I definitely feel like a woman a lot of the time I'm dressed.

After a couple hours sitting in front of my computer, dressed, doing work from the bank, reading e-mail, and of course, reading and writing this very forum, I find the mental body image I have of myself has gotten rather distorted. Perhaps I should say, "improved", rather than "distorted" :). I come to take the details somewhat for granted, but the total that they add up to is late twenty-something career girl, not fifty-something male bank manager.

It's hard to modify what the mirror shows, although heaven knows I've tried :). But, right now, not looking in the mirror, typing these words, I "feel" a lot more like a cute, rather shapely "chick" than anything else. What I can see from here -- my relatively delicate hands on the keyboard, and below that, the spendid effect that my breast forms have on a rather tight green angora sweater -- over time does what the mirror can't.

To be frank, I don't think a person can wear a dress and have 40-D breasts for a sustained period without, in the process, coming to believe in her feminine reality.

I may be unusual, however, as I also use self-hypnosis to proactively promote a female body image. There's no way to know what is causing me to "feel like a woman", but I report that yes, I do, a lot of the time.

Hugs,
Susie

[sandra-leigh]

What everyone is stumbling about here is the fact that you can't "feel like a woman". Women don't "feel" any diffrent than men "feel". Women are PEOPLE just like you. People feel like people. Individuals feel like individuals.

Well, sure, if you want to be a "you can't step into the same river twice" sort of positivist.

We have a lot of imperical evidence to suggest that in many different circumstances, members of the set of women will be treated differently then members of the set of men would be under otherwise the same circumstances. It then becomes meaningful for a male to say that they wish that in a non-trivial portion of such circumstances, that they would be treated as women would be treated instead of as men would be treated -- that they wish to feel that they are treated as a woman. It also becomes meaningful for a male to wish to internalize the circumstances and reactions that large classes of women would have under those circumstances, and thereby to experience the circumstances the way those classes of women would instead of as the great majority of the classes of men would; these men wish to feel that their reactions would be those with a statistical distribution significantly more typical of women than of men -- they want to feel the way most women would feel, in most circumstances.

Each person may have individual reactions, but that doesn't mean that one cannot find signficicant statistical correlations. Each variate is random, but the statistical distributions may be greatly skewed. For example, if offered a choice of yogurt or beer, although each person will make up their mind individually according to their life experiences and physical state leading to that moment, one might still find that (say) 63% of the women chose yogurt and (say) 41% of the men chose yogurt. There would then be a corelation between gender and yogurt vs beer. And perhaps it happens that the male who wishes to feel like a woman really hates yogurt: no matter, because there are thousands of other corelations to examine, and one can create a covariant matrix that could be used to measure the probability of male-like-feelings vs female-like-feelings based upon the massed measurements of the variates.

To insist that each person must be treated individually because everyone has different feelings, is no-wise different than insisting that "You can't say that grapefruit fall down -- you just haven't happened to observe any grapefruit that choose to fly to Oslo and get jobs as spot-welders!" If you permit us to construct statistical generalizations about anything observable or reportable, then consistancy requires that you allow us to construct statistical generalization about differences between mens' and womens' reactions or feelings.

[Carin]

I believe that Gender Identity is a scale with M on one end and F on the other. The psychology of the area in between is understudied and underdeveolped. And the world seeks safety in black and white, M and F. For many of us, we take one step over from M because there is a natural instinct or draw to do that. And that feels good and feels right. We are more comfortable - or maybe excited. We enjoy the sensuality, tactile or visual. Then we take another step over.

If we have the opportunity to step as far as we want, we will eventually find our true center. We are not becoming someone else, we are discovering ourselves. For some, their center will be a couple of steps over. Some will want to step all the way to G, and a few will take that last step to F.

You may discover one day that Larry and Elizabeth really are the same person. It took me twelve years. You are thinking of 'Elizabeth' as F, and you don't see yourself there. But there is plenty of room between there and M.

Discover yourself, and enjoy the journey if you can.
:2c:

[Suzie S.]

I think everyone here explained it quite well already. I agree I'll never know what it is like to actually be a woman. I accept that and move on. The reality is that I am a man, and I have a role to fulfill in that capacity that I can not lose sight of.

But, there are strong feminine traits inside of me that I need to express to keep myself in balance. The only way I know to do that is have some time to be Suzie. I don't know what it's like to be female, but I do know what it is like to be Suzie, and it's wonderful and fulfilling. Ladie's clothing is the most tangable way I know to help nuture the feminine side within me, but it goes deeper than that. I'm learning more as time goes on about what I feel inside, and clothing and makeup only fulfill part of it. I havn't yet figured out how I can possibly fulfill it any other way. I guess that is why I consider this to be a journey, not just a destination.

As time goes on, you may discover that there is an Elizabeth inside you. Take your time discovering what is driving you to dress, and don't lose sight of your male reality. If in time you discover that you just like to put on a skirt to help you relax, than that's fine. There doesn't have to be a deep rooted meaning to it. If you enjoy it, and it's not hurting anyone, then do it without guilt. :happy:

[Victoria Anne]

I must agree with Stephie, we often say "feel like a woman" myself included but when we say this at least for me it is more that dressed as a woman I feel right with who I am and that is all I will ever be "myself" wheather that is as Victoria Anne or as Tim it is who I am,and I love that femme part of me and it is just that, a part of me.
As for the sexual aspect of it,I think that it is as with puberty,just a part of growing up into the ladies we are or will become, it will wane and someday just vanish at it has for many of us. It is I feel a part of growth and we all find our own level of growth ,that is to say our own level of CDing,that level at which we each feel comfortable with and this will take time but you will find your own level in time. For me it has taken 46 years to find out who I am and I'm still learning about myself and still growing,the key I believe is to just go with it and enjoy yourself because when you find your personal level of comfort you will know it. Good luck hun, hope this helps some. Victoria Anne

[Marcie Sexton]

Having not been a GG, I couldn't begin to know how a woman feels, but I know how I feel...GREAT !!!

One thing I can relate to and it happened just a couple of days ago was the experience of wearing a wedding dress...I now feel what all brides feel or felt, and I loved it...So long as you are harming no one enjoy the feeling...

If it feels good do it...

[SAMANTHA SIREN]

Hye Elizabeth Ann; Lovely to hear that you are just beginning to find the allure and mystique of becoming a woman fascinating and just groovy. I know you may have some ups and downs on the road to finding the balance between your own male persona and your strong deep feminine needs. But once aquired you will notice that the days will become much nicer and you will attain a feeling of oneness with your own inner self. To dress as a female is incredibly wonderful and it liberates you from the toil of having to perform as a male, the freedom and incredibly lovely clothes that you get to wear makes your mind feel truly enchanted. I can't imagine even now anything more nicer than putting on make-up, lipstick, wearing my favourite flower print dress, putting on panty hose and sexy strappy high heels and just feeling great looking at my own reflection in the mirror.
I feel certain that you will enjoy the experience even more as you progress with your dressing.

As Easter approaches, I wish you a lovely time and may everything your heart desire come true.

Love and Many Kisses,
Samantha Siren.xx
P.S. You can contact me on AMPTY17@AOL.COM. x:hugs:

[marie354]

I doubt that any of us of can ever really know what it feels to be a real woman, but we can be as close to it as possible IMO.

Now the feeling of femininity is a big reality for me as I'm sure a lot can and do achieve that feeling.
I myself love feeling pretty in a nice outfit, jewelry, etc.

But feeling as a woman... Only a woman can know that for sure IMO.

Those that are going through HRT may be a bit closer to feeling that way through experience of mood swings, hot flashes, etc.

I can only imagine what it would be like and hope my opinions hold true.

[janedoe311]

I am a dancer and flirt. I do sometimes get in the role a bit more than I will admit to.

Can not say I feel like a woman (but there are moments thought) but I do find it frustrating I am not and cannot be.

I would like to interact with men and woman as a real woman. But reality sets in and Oh Well back to a guy.

[gennee]

I really don't know how a woman feels but I do feel feminine. I love and respect women and everthing about them. Being TG I feel liberated and content.

Gennee


:gorgeous:

[lauraabdl]

I for one dress for myself and how it makes me feel. I know I can not pass for a woman in real life but that has not detured me from my path to CDing.
I know deep down inside me that what I am doing is right it just completes me and I feel good.
Laura

[KatieC]

I am a dancer and flirt. I do sometimes get in the role a bit more than I will admit to.

Can not say I feel like a woman (but there are moments thought) but I do find it frustrating I am not and cannot be.

I would like to interact with men and woman as a real woman. But reality sets in and Oh Well back to a guy.
I'm quite the flirt when I'm playing Second Life as well. And something of an exhibitionist. I so love that I can be accepted as a "real woman" in that environment. I don't know what "real woman" feel like, so how can I know if I feel like one? But to be accepted as "one of the girls" -- that's a feeling I love. I may not be able to pass in "real life", but I seem to be passing OK in Second Life.

I sometimes worry about accidentally outing myself there, thinking that GGs who play probably wouldn't be as attention seeking as I catch myself being. But my best Second Life friend is a GG who is just as flirty as I am, and is just as likely to be tho one to suggest shopping with our AVs wearing matching lingerie as I am . . . so maybe I just worry too much!

- Katie

[Cheryl T]

Yes, in many ways I suppose I do feel like a woman, but that is not why I dress. It makes me comfortable and complete. I'm at ease and much calmer.
A few weeks ago another CD made the comment when a few of us were talking about wearing skirts..."isnt' that why we do it?". My answer was No. It's no longer about the thrill of the clothing. That dissipated years ago. It's about being me and opening myself to express all that I am.

[Stephenie S]

Tess, I don't quite get your point. Even if only women eat yogurt, eating yogurt doesn't make you "feel" like a woman. It only makes you feel like someone who eats yogurt. We can only ever "feel" like ourselves. We can easily experience the "feeling" of eating yogurt, but I cannot see how eating yogurt can make us "feel" like that person who only eats yogurt.

When we do a brave act, we can then say, "Oh, I felt so BRAVE." When we comfort a child, or cry at an emotional movie, we can then say, "Oh, I felt so feminine". But we are still only feeling like ourselves being brave or feminine. It's still us. Women feel brave or feminine too, but there is no "feeling" of being a woman, any more than a "feeling" of being tall. Women are people. Women are human beings who feel and think like human beings. You are one too.

We can explore our femininity. We can experience many of the same things that women experience very easily. We can feel more or less feminine. But to "feel" like a woman? You already do. Women "feel" things just like you do.
It's just the same. That's all there is. Men feel things. Women feel things. We are all people. People feel things.

I guess what I am trying to do here is to de-mystify women. Many here seem to have a very unrealistic view of what it means to be a woman. Women are not some fantastic sub species. They are people. You are people. Women can bear children and suckle their young. This does make them unique. A man will never bear children or suckle their young. But women feel things just like men do. Men feel things just like women do.

We all have masculine and feminine aspects to our personalities. Some have MUCH more of one or the other. Does wearing women's clothes help you express more of your feminine traits? Good. Do it. (That is, after all, what this forum is all about) But you already "feel" as much a woman as you ever will. You can't feel like a woman. You can only feel like yourself expressing your femininity.

Again, IMHO

Stephie

[Eva Diva]

I'm new at this, and that may shape my answer, but I have a few thoughts to share. First, I never think of myself as "feeling like a woman", whatever you want that to mean. I enjoy transforming my appearance - it's a magical thing - but for me, I'm a guy in a dress, wig, and makeup. That may put me in the minority here, but there you go. Perhaps it's because I didn't start as a child, but as with the original poster, I use the name Eva just to follow convention here - I'm not Eva, and I don't think of my self as being Eva. It's all about performance for me - maybe I should have taken drama classes. :D

[Dixie]

My wife does this special thing for me when I'm dressed, and I tell ya girls I defiantly feel like a women when she does:D

[Eva Diva]

My wife does this special thing for me when I'm dressed, and I tell ya girls I defiantly feel like a women when she does:D


Does she make you clean the house? :D

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Feel like a woman? Not really. Rather, I feel like me, the *whole* me. There's nothing like whering a comfy skirt and top and watching the tellly.

Whoa! Your avatar, honey, is way disturbing!
Where be yer head?
Kew

[Dixie]

Yes Eva darling she does as a matter of fact I am in the middle of catch up on the laundry right now.:happy:

[Kate Simmons]

At best, we can only approximate what we THINK it may feel like to be a woman in spite of all the "window dressing" we use. There are deeper and more intrinsic feelings on a physiological and psychological level that we will never experience and can't really be described in words, so we are in effect giving it our "best shot". I might ask the counter question:"Do you really feel like a man?" If so, how do you describe it? A woman, upon hearing the answer, may say she feels similar things but will never really know what it feels like. This is why I prefer to say I don't feel like one or the other, just the person I am which is an amalgamation of all my feelings.:happy:

[susie evans]

i will never no what it feels like to be a women but i can tell you i realy like the feeling when i were femme clothes and shoes and wigs and make up it's great :heehee: :D

susie

[Angie G]

Yes I do sometimes and I love the feeling :hugs:
Angie

[Karren H]

Not a woman and never will be so will never know what it feels like to be one....

Karren

[sandra-leigh]

Women can bear children and suckle their young. This does make them unique. A man will never bear children or suckle their young.


http://www.babycenter.com/expert/baby/babybreastfeed/8824.html



Question: Can men breastfeed?

Answer: [...] Yes, in theory, men can breastfeed. Male breasts have milk ducts, and some mammary tissue. They also have oxytocin and prolactin, the hormones responsible for milk production. There have been reports of men who were able to produce milk through extensive breast and nipple stimulation, but no one knows whether the milk was of the same composition or quality as the kind women produce.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation


The phenomenon of male lactation in humans has become more common in recent years due to the use of medications that stimulate a man's mammary glands. [...] Male lactation has, in some cases, commenced without hormonal treatments as well.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=&articleID=A24E0966-E7F2-99DF-322F8725F208D744


Strange but True: Males Can Lactate
[...]In short, men may not have full-fledged breasts but they certainly can lactate, under extreme circumstances.

[sandra-leigh]

We all have masculine and feminine aspects to our personalities.

You are contradicting yourself. Your logic requires that there be no such thing as "masculine" or "feminine" "aspects to our personalities". According to your logic, there are just each individual's personality aspects, with any categorization of those aspects into "masculine" or "feminine" being a semantic illusion.

If you grant the existance of distinct "masculine" or "feminine" personality aspects, then you grant the possibility that a male might experience periods during which their feelings were those dominated by (or greatly influenced by) "feminine aspects" -- that during those periods, that they feel more like women typically feel than like men typically feel under their circumstances.

[Stephenie S]

Tess,

Perhaps we cannot come to a perfect meeting of minds here, but we may be just stating similar points of view from different semantic angles. I did state that we all have aspects of our personalities that could be called masculine or feminine. And I did state that we could feel more or less masculine or feminine. My original thought was that we cannot "feel like a woman", we can only feel like ourselves expressing our that part of our personality that is feminine. I think that there is probably no particular "feeling" that is exclusively woman, any more than there is a particular "feeling" that is exclusively male.

And, hon, as a medical professional, I am well aware that it is physiologically possible for a male breast to produce milk. Not very much milk, probably not enough to provide enough nutrition for a growing infant, but possible. My point was only that childbearing and nursing was a part of femininity that was not normaly available to men to experience, as opposed to wearing an article of clothing or exhibiting emotion in public.

I really don't think we are too far apart on this issue.

Lovies,
Steph

[sandra-leigh]

But you already "feel" as much a woman as you ever will.

My experiences lead me to consider that claim to be incorrect -- sufficiently incorrect that I disagree with the entire premise of your argument, not just disagree with minor details.

Case in point:

One afternoon, I put on a skirt and obviously-womens top under my male clothing, put my wig and shoes in a bag, left my workplace (it wasn't during regular working hours), and started wandering around downtown. I found a quiet alley where I was hidden from view and slipped off my male outerwear, put on my wig and shoes, and started walking around through quiet areas (our downtown has residential areas mixed with commercial.) When I'd had enough, I started looking around for a secluded place to change back; I only need a moment to pull on jeans and take off the wig, but I don't like people seeing me during that moment of transition, as it is the transition that proves that I'm crossdressing. I had trouble finding a change-back place that was secluded enough for my tastes, but eventually reached an infrequented alley, near a main street, that I remembered had some bins I could step behind, so I turned into the alley. A moment later I looked behind to be sure the coast was clear, and discovered that though I hadn't seen anyone close to me before I turned in, that a large guy was behind me in the alley, less than 100 feet away.
When I saw that a large guy was close behind Dressed me in the alley, I had a flash of fear: "This guy has followed me because he thinks that I'm a woman alone in the alley! I could get raped!"
Needless to say, I didn't stop to change: I picked up the pace a bit and got out of there. The guy didn't follow me or hurry after me, so it was likely just a coincidence, but I'd already had my scare.

As a male, there are places I won't go at times due to the risk of being mugged, but I'm a guy, not afraid of those places, I just take sensible precautions. But when I looked back and saw that big guy behind me, I was temporarily female, and I reacted viscerally as a female, "It was a bad bad mistake to go down this alley by myself: I'm going to be sexually attacked just because I'm a woman (right now)!"

Thus, for a moment, I definitely felt I was being treated as a woman, not just as an imitation woman but rather mistaken for a real woman, and my reaction (which occured far too quickly to have "reasoned" to that state) was the one numerous women have told me they have: that they are afraid to go isolated places or dark places or to walk alone at night, because they are afraid of being raped.
This feeling of fear of sexual assault and consequent fear of less-frequented places, was something completely outside my male experience: I literally couldn't understand it, couldn't understand how women could be afraid all the time like that. But then I experienced it for myself: I felt like a woman, felt as women (commonly) feel, rather than how a male would have felt in the same time and place.

I have long asked myself, "But what's it like to be a woman, to live life as women do, to be treated as women are treated?" -- and in that moment, I had at least part of the answer.

You say that I already feel as much like a woman as I ever will, but before that moment I felt less like woman feel than I did after. It happened once, so it can happen again: there are likely to be other incidents when in some aspect or other I will react femalely rather than malely, or will feel that (while crossdressed) that I have been treated the way women are (generally) treated rather than as men or imitation-women are.


Certainly, a lot of the time, I am "a man wearing womens clothes" -- possibly more so than most of the participants in this thread, as I go out "gender-bending" a fair bit, which is something that feels right and comfortable for me. Gender-bending, you might be "man-plus", but you know you aren't "passing": it's a great discipline for knowing that what you are experiencing is individual and personal to you rather than getting lost in the wasteland of "Am I feminine enough?" (whatever that means). But when I dress fully and really go out presenting myself as a woman, then my reactions are often different, and often not rationally explicable.

For example, if I were dressed as male, and a guy were to tell me, "Nice legs!", I'd be like, "Ummm, yah, whatever (what are you, strange? and why are you telling me this??)". But when I'm Dressed and a guy tells me "Nice legs!", I immediately feel good about it. My reactions and emotions while Dressed are different. And it isn't that I'm reasoning differently about the situations: I'm not busy telling myself, "Let's see, you are currently dressed as a woman, and this male has just said something that would be considered to be a compliment to a woman, so this male is attempting to compliment you; okay, so are you in the mood to consider compliments? Since you are a male yourself, are you just going to accept the compliment in the spirit of generosity, or have you reasoned out your reaction to males while you are showing yourself as a woman? You've decided to accept the compliment? Aesthetically or emotionally? Emotionally? Okay, gate open the feel-good circuits in your body!" I'm talking about feelings: that feel-good circuit kicks in before I think about what's happening, and it's afterwards that I start trying to reason out what happened and how I feel about having felt good about a compliment from a male.

Is that "feeling" "like a woman", or is "just feeling in your own way because you are an individual and no-one else can feel exactly the way you feel"? I consider the latter to be a very reductionist approach that doesn't work for me: while Dressed, my feelings and reaction have a statistically meaningful greater corelation towards those of women rather than men, so as far as I am concerned, during that time, it is perfectly meaningful to say that I am feeling more like a woman, to the extent that we can make any generalization that men feel differently than women do.

(If my language of "statistical corelation" and "covariance" throws people off: Sorry, I have a math degree and work in science, so in a discussion of meaning, I tend to fall back to language of precision.)

[janedoe311]

My experiences lead me to consider that claim to be incorrect -- sufficiently incorrect that I disagree with the entire premise of your argument, not just disagree with minor details.


You tell him! I have been a bit annoyed this “Medical professional” egotism and superiority complex. So I am glad someone told him off.:thumbsup:

[sandra-leigh]

So I am glad someone told him off.

Urrr, it's essentially a philisophical debate between different schools of meaning, not intended to be personal.
Stephanie is arguing from a Logical Positivist viewpoint, and I'm arguing the validity of Revealed Experience :)

[Elizabeth Ann]

As the original poster, I really appreciate all of the responses, and am a bit dismayed at what seems like some small unpleasantness in the thread. But you are very civil about it. My other forum participation is in sailboat racing. Now there's a confrontational bunch!

It seems to me that the responses here indicate that some people, perhaps the majority, feel that their emotions and personality are different when they are dressed than when they are not. I don't know if this is "feeling like a woman" or not. I suppose that some could attribute some sort of sexism (or it is genderism?) to the process of assigning some attributes as female and some as male, but let's not go there.

What does seem clear is that this is a very complex process involving willfull changes in our environment (cross dressing), internal psychological issues, and external responses to us. Not being "out," I haven't experienced the effect of external responses, which may be why I don't understand what is going on. But somehow I think it is more than that, that the underlying processes can provoke a wide range of feelings and behaviors, as has been demonstrated by this thread.

I'll be exploring it with more questions to this group. I know that I will get a lot of responses along the lines of "it's unfathomable, just enjoy it." But I don't think it is beyond understanding, and I don't know that I can really enjoy something that is this important and unpredictable. Can you just slip on a dress and wonder: what happens next?

Elizabeth

[sandra-leigh]

I don't know that I can really enjoy something that is this important and unpredictable. Can you just slip on a dress and wonder: what happens next?

I'd say: Yes, some of us can do pretty much that.

If you only dress at home, or only dress in public when no-one can come near enough for an interaction, then the question becomes somewhat moot. And if you only dress to a T, never risking going out unless you have practiced your walk and got your femme voice down already and got yourself made up perfectly so as to be unrecognizable and only go "safe" places... then you are probably greatly concerned about Control of the situation, and might never be able to let go of that control. Similarily, if you are mortified about the possibility of "being read", then you might be too self-conscious to give in to the situation.

But it is pretty difficult to discover unknown qualities about yourself by pure introspection, so sometimes some people just dress up (or part dress), and go out -- go out to see what happens, to experience dressed life casually rather than totally pre-planned, to open themselves to what is happening in the world and to open themselves to discovering their reactions to those events. They just slip on a dress (or whatever) and go out to see what happens.

A moment ago, I paused in the middle of this message, put on a long denim skirt, B/C forms and stretch top, tights, jacket and gloves, and was going to bicycle over to the drug store about a mile away and grab some groceries there. No wig, no attempt to hide that I'm male, just me and the experience. I've biked in a skirt before, and I've gone into that drugstore in a skirt before, so I didn't expect anything unusual to happen, but if it had, I would have dealt with it.
Unfortunately, it turns out that with the windchill, it's effectively about 0F outside right now, and I know from past experience that that gets really cold on a bike, so I didn't go further than my back yard. I did, though, go into my backyard during daylight, wearing a skirt and not worried about the neighbours. I don't worry about the neigbours seeing me get into or out of a taxi when I go out Dressed either: I just put on whatever and go with the flow.

Sometimes you just have to let go of any shame and embarrasment and say "Heck, I'm me, and I'm going to have a good day!", and slip on those clothes and go out and let yourself enjoy what comes.

[Michellebej]

It seems to me that both of you girls are coming down on the side of "yes, I can know what it feels to be like a women". Albiet from different perspectives.

It seems that most of the debate is between an individualistic viewpoint and a group viewpoint. Both I believe are valid.

I do feel that equating "feminine" with GG is about as meaningless as equating "masculine" with GM. That is in any absolute sense. Certinaly you could argue the point, as I think Tess is trying to, that femininity is more prevelant in a given ( GG in this case) population group.

Having said that I do not think that it is an exclusive trait to the GG population group. And; I think that is Steph's point.

I spend most of my professional and personal time with GGs. Most of whom now know Michelle. I now go out once a week or so with the girls, and no one has ever read me that I know of ( agreed that it is easier to pass when you are with GGs). My friends tell me that the two things that make me so passable are confidence and my femininity. My friends will tell you that I am the most feminine women in the group. And; one of the most maternal. I am refered to by most of my friends as "aunt Michelle". At least when they want my advice.

In fact some of my best friends won't even talk, non-professionally, to my non-Michelle persona.

But; Tess hun, my background is in Engineering, and I can use washers on an elipsoid as well; but I had trouble following your initial argument ( used in its meaning as a vehicle for debate).

Michelle

[Sejd]

Elizabeth
I think you got it right, Bulls eye! because the point is that you don't change who you are,you just become more of who you are in a skirt. I am like you, 56 years old, and have just recently fully understood what it mean for me to be a transgender person. I would highly recomend to you that you go visit a sexologist who is specialized in these matters. It would be very helpful to you I think.
thanks for sharing. You are on your way sister!!!!
hugs
Sejd

[Fresh_as_Candy]

when I dress as a woman, it feels so right... it gives me a confident feeling and I deffinately get off on being seen as a woman, especially when Im mistaken for a real woman:heehee:

[Stephenie S]

Well Tess, I did read your reply carefully. Maybe we just won't agree on this. I do feel we have more in common than you seem to feel we do, but perhaps not. The more you write, the less I find to disagree with.

I know how I "feel" and it's pretty much just ME feeling. Perhaps the problem I am having is that I feel feminine pretty much all the time. My entire life until a few years ago was spent trying to prove that I was a man, and it felt fake the whole time I was doing it.

I can remember the first times I CDed, and I can remember saying to myself, "So THIS is what it feels like to wear a dress". I can't ever remember saying, "So this is what it feels like to be a woman", because I already felt that I was a woman.

I have enjoyed our discussion, hon.

Stephenie

[Stephenie S]

Jane, so sorry to have ruffled your feathers, dear. My apologies.

Steph

[sandra-leigh]

The more you write, the less I find to disagree with.

I'm fairly sensitive to shades of meaning, and particularily sensitive to use of the word "never". You said <<you can never feel more like a woman than you do now>> and I see not as a statement of difficulty of the topic but instead as a statement of literal impossibility. At that point I say, "hold on, but 'feel like' can mean This, or it can mean That, and under those meanings it is possible; furthermore I had this Revelation during which I felt with female reactions rather than with male, so <<never more>> cannot be right."

There are a lot of situations that are foreign to my lower-middle-class white suburban male upbringing, things I can read about but am blocked from internalizing; I might trust the reputation of the author, but I can't really believe them, instead reacting with variations of "That's so stupid, no-one would put up with that!" or "People can't really be like that!". For example, I have never truly intuitively understood what it is like to grow up Black in a ghetto: intellectualizing about it starting from my upbringing as a base just doesn't get me close enough to really feel it -- and if I were to dress up as Black for awhile and go visit a ghetto, I probably still wouldn't feel it in my bones.

Similarily, there are aspects of being a woman that I don't "get" right now, some of which I probably never will. But there is, I think, enough fluidity in gender that if I ever got to the point of being publically accepted as actually being female, that I would probably end up having experiences where I would indeed "get" something that I don't "get" now; if it should happen, even in small ways, then afterwards I would feel more like a woman than I do now.

An example of something that I think might be within reach is to experience female gender roles outside of urban life. With my Feminist Era upbringing, it is easy to fall into the thought process of "Women are just people who happen to have a different physiology then Men". It's an assessment that ignores what happens on average, boeyed by the optimism of knowing that it is within social acceptability for urban women to do the same kind of work as men, appear to have the same motivations, have the same kind of self-confidence as men, and so on. But according to what I read, it isn't the same outside of the urban North; e.g., that for the most part, being male or being female are quite different experiences in the southern USA. Hypothetically, if I were to get to the point of routinely "passing", and I were to visit the southern USA, I would experience differences for myself, and thereby come to understand more of what it is to be a woman. An example: that in a get-together, women are expected to "help out in the kitchen" before-hand; and after-dinner, that the men are to be left alone for "male talk". That relegation of conversation by gender class is not within my experience. Or, I can read about phrases such as "Don't worry your pretty little head about it!", but until I have sincerely been told it a few times by people who perceive me as female, reading is not the same as understanding and feeling.

[Stephenie S]

I think this is why they say never say never.

I have some thoughts about your post but no time now to write.

Steph

[Lovely Rita]

Everyone is different. No two are alike. I definitely feel different when dressed and I would categorize it as feeling like a woman, but that is my perogative. For those who don't that is their journey. All our journey's are different and so it would be hard for me to explain what you do or don't feel. All I can say is that my SO says I become quite the Diva without talent when dressed. She really notices a change. I am definitely 100% Rita, whatever that is. I Feel like a woman and loving it. I don't over analyze it either.

Take care

[sandra-leigh]

All I can say is that my SO says I become quite the Diva without talent when dressed.

Gosh, how did you ever pass the Barbara Steisand test on the forums signup page? :tongueout

[sandra-leigh]

But; Tess hun, my background is in Engineering, and I can use washers on an elipsoid as well; but I had trouble following your initial argument ( used in its meaning as a vehicle for debate).

I think I have some leftover initial arguments that I'm not using, sitting around here somewhere. I accumulate them like those styrofoam chips they pack in boxes. I could probably ship some off to you if you're running short :D

[daniellalee]

There are alot of different levels to this strange and wonderful lifestyle. You can't simply put all of us in one neat catagory. Some of us are more serious about this than others. Some of us really need to be like women and go so far as to change genetic sex completely. Some of us just like to express our feminine side on occasion and some do it purely for the sexual thrill. It sounds like in your case that you are doing it because you are a stereotypical heterosexual male obsessed with women and since you do not get as much sexual contact as you would like, you resort to wearing feminine attire. It is very common for men to make the association of female clothing as being with a women. Soft and feminine is what you are sexaully attracted to and it has nothing to do with you wanting to became a women full-time or part-time.:happy:

[LoriFlores]

I feel like me, TG.

On the inside I'm female (although suffering from the effects of testosterone). Unfortunately, on the outside I'm male (flat on top, ugly bump in my pants).

[sandra-leigh]

It sounds like in your case that you are doing it because

Hi, Daniellalee: could you clarify who the "you" is that you were addressing? Are you referring to the original poster, or to one of us layabouts?


since you do not get as much sexual contact as you would like

Some of the other threads I have read have had a fair number of people saying, "Yes, I haven't had any sexual intimacy for <N> years". I know I haven't learned everyone's history yet nor do I always manage to keep straight whom is whom, but as best I can tell, in the great majority of the cases, the crossdressing started first. I knew my crossdressing started around puberty; I just didn't realize what it was until my early 40's.

[BethGG]

Tess, I don't quite get your point. Even if only women eat yogurt, eating yogurt doesn't make you "feel" like a woman. It only makes you feel like someone who eats yogurt. We can only ever "feel" like ourselves. We can easily experience the "feeling" of eating yogurt, but I cannot see how eating yogurt can make us "feel" like that person who only eats yogurt.

When we do a brave act, we can then say, "Oh, I felt so BRAVE." When we comfort a child, or cry at an emotional movie, we can then say, "Oh, I felt so feminine". But we are still only feeling like ourselves being brave or feminine. It's still us. Women feel brave or feminine too, but there is no "feeling" of being a woman, any more than a "feeling" of being tall. Women are people. Women are human beings who feel and think like human beings. You are one too.

We can explore our femininity. We can experience many of the same things that women experience very easily. We can feel more or less feminine. But to "feel" like a woman? You already do. Women "feel" things just like you do.
It's just the same. That's all there is. Men feel things. Women feel things. We are all people. People feel things.

I guess what I am trying to do here is to de-mystify women. Many here seem to have a very unrealistic view of what it means to be a woman. Women are not some fantastic sub species. They are people. You are people. Women can bear children and suckle their young. This does make them unique. A man will never bear children or suckle their young. But women feel things just like men do. Men feel things just like women do.

We all have masculine and feminine aspects to our personalities. Some have MUCH more of one or the other. Does wearing women's clothes help you express more of your feminine traits? Good. Do it. (That is, after all, what this forum is all about) But you already "feel" as much a woman as you ever will. You can't feel like a woman. You can only feel like yourself expressing your femininity.

Again, IMHO

Stephie

:thumbup: Thanks for posting this! I totally agree, that's one thing that is a bit strange for me, is how people on this board always say "feel like a woman", I'm a woman but I just feel like a person. But maybe it's just focusing on semantics too much. I think usually people mean feeling "girly" or feminine. But when people even say "I can't know what it's like to feel like a woman"....it makes it sound as if women feel this totally seperate way that is alien to the human race. We're just regular people. I think there is a difference though in being treated as how women are often treated, surely that is/can be different then being treated as how a man is usually treated. I don't think that defines people though.

[daniellalee]

Yes, Tess-Leigh my comments were directed to the original post. I'll try to clarify in the future. Like you i had the desire to be girly at age 4-5 before i was thinking anything sexual but i know many guys who only started doing it around puberty when sexual anxiety was at the max. They claim they never had the desire before then. Sometimes it is hard to clarify whether i'm a crossdresser or transexual. I don't really feel the need to go all the way but i also feel that this is more than just a fetish. Why would i have this desire at such a young age?+?

[Kristen Kelly]

Gosh, how did you ever pass the Barbara Steisand test on the forums signup page? :tongueout


Slipped by that one too, if you have ever heard me sing Keroke(which I still do often) sounds like the noise my cat makes when I pull his tail.

Kristen is now so much a part of me the clothes are not needed to make the transformation it is a mental thing, when dressed there are many times I forget what outward experession I am showing, and have been caught by my GF in drab replying in my fem voice, and walking the walk.

[Tee]

I understand the different experiences. When I am on this forum, I am femme, and all the people here are femme.
I went through a period of several months when dressing actually suppressed sexual urges, completely. For me, the various aspects of dressing ebb and flow.
One thing i have discovered however, if I relieve myself when dressed, I immediately loose the urge to remain dressed. Not sure if it is a repressed guilt reaction or something physiological, psychological or ???. w. :2c:

You expressed something i experienced. i went to see a therapist about it... it definitely psychological. in fact, my therapist gave me a exercise... a treatment activity, which completely removed my urge to dress for a couple of years. its was quite a miracle then, for i never thought i would be able to stop CDing, especially i have been trying to do so for years on my own.

[Minerva Morgan]

I think, Elizabeth, your observation that an evolutionary process is taking place is accurate. Initially you were likely seeking a sexual partner to replace your wife's lack of libido. I share a similar situation. There is likely more to it than that, and I suspect that my dressing had its origins in youthful curiosity combined with a fascination with the feminine. Wishing to remain faithful to your wife, you sought a partner in an alter-ego of yourself. Initially that alter-ego was only an object; but is gradually developing a personality of her own. This would be very confusing; particulary for someone who has not been cultivated in the feminine mystique. She may have been there all of the time, but not have emerged until you needed her.
In my own case, in drab or en femme, I still feel that I am the same person; but often, while dressed, do feel somewhat feminine, and try (without straining myself) to cultivate that feeling. To some degree, as suggested above, that feeling may be 'culturally' derived. That is, by pursuing femininity one becomes more feminine. Does this mean you become less masculine? I think not, but the traits become more distinct the more you switch between them.
While initially sexual in nature, the process of change would begin, in itself, to have some satisfaction; an anticipatory delight of being (being with) the lady with whom you have been intimate. In time, the companionship plus the feeling of being attractive is fulfillment in itself. Perhaps a sort of endorphin high is involved. The difficulty is that the 'companionship' is, essentially, a solitary one; and can be very lonely; which is why you and I are here.
It is very unlikely that you will ever be able to fully feel like a lady; and certainly never fully understand what it is to be a woman. You have missed too much of the experience and formative indoctrination that a real woman experiences from an early age. Nevertheless, as time passes, you will likely grow to know this 'other' person better, feel more comfortable as that person, and maybe even like yourself better.
One concern I have about your ambivalence is the sense that you think you can set this feminine facet of yourself aside and let it go. I suspect that, as in many cases, this will be impossible. This other person may well have been within you all of your life. There is no 'cure' as there is no 'disease'. This brings up the issue of gender versus sex. A simplistic notion is that one's sex is what one is born with; while one's gender is what one presents. In short, the first is inflexible (without drastic, invasive, physical alteration), but the latter has some flexibility (dependent on acquire skills, and aside from features of ones character.) Gender has been described as shades of grey; rather than black or white. A real woman has some flexibility in the degree of femininity she presents (no makeup, jewellery or dresses, but still feminine; to a full treatment knockout.) We do not have that option. To be at all presentable (in most cases except for the more fortunate), the full treatment is necessary to achieve the desired effect. Thus, for us, black and white may be all we have; with little grey. This also can be a source of confusion and frustration.
Social attitudes can also be part of your problem. You have undoubtedly been taught, however subliminally, that crossdressing is wrong, wicked, perverted, sinful and a form of mental illness. This would give rise to shame and self-denial. Do not be too quick to deny this new self; and I fear that such denial may give rise to more suffering than acceptance and understanding might.
I could well be all wrong in your particular case, but I suspect that Elizabeth is there; you simply do not know her well. What does she think?

Minerva