Almost outed at church!!

[Alice Torn]

I go to a very conservative church, that considers cding an abomination. It is like a family to me, except for a few folks, and, I have only told one widow that I have had a problem with cding. She said she would never tell anyone at church(that should have been a warning to me!) Today, a group was at a table, discussing Bible, and one of the mimisters was right there. This widow always has her hair in a top knot, and I sometimes asked her when she will let it down. Well, I said "top knot come down", and she quickly told me rather loudly, "Do you want me to tell everyone about your secret problem?" I was about to cringe, and face the music, but, she relented. Whooo! That was close. I only dress, about once, every six weeks, not much of a habit.

[Nikki Dee]

Secret "problem"...Made me laugh that did.!!!!...they mean secret "joy" of course.!!... but I thought the whole basis of Christian religion though was "forgiveness".?????
Nikki.,

[Shelly Preston]

I hate to say this, but she does not sounds like a very forgiving person.

It may also be she is supersenitive to any comment you make because of your secret

I think she will tell someone in time judging by the reaction to your comment.

Please be prepared as it may happen when you least expect it :(

[Vicky_Scot]

After reading your post the two things that really jumped out at me was when you said,

"I have only told one widow that I have had a problem with cding."

May I ask in what sense you see your dressing as a problem.

"Do you want me to tell everyone about your secret problem?"

Once you tell someone your secret it is no longer your secret, it becomes their secret which is a very dangerous weapon which I think you have started to see.

As Shelly said I do not think this person will keep their secret about you for much longer.

[Darlene Rochelle]

I would find a more liberal church to attend. Why would you want to go to such a closed-minded place??:2c:

[Alice Torn]

I know, that , though it is a very law, and grace church, it has also been a forgiving one, and gives hope, of a wonderful, peaceful world to come on earth, without wars, and oppression, for a thousand years. It is just that they are mainly married, with children, and "normies", other than a few odd singles, like myself, and they don't get singles issues, let alone cd issues. I have to keep quiet, and if out, hope I never run into any of them. Sometimes, we have to conpromise, with job, church, neighbors, roommates, etc, and keep it secret the best we can, but, "the tongue, no man can tame". Just ask Don Imus! It gets all of us into trouble at times!

[thea]

Maybe you shouldn't tease her anymore about the top knot. She was reacting to that more than threatening to out you. And I second the advice that you explore a few other churches, especially those that publicly make it known that they're welcoming no matter who you love or what you wear--which most often means it'll be a liberal religous congregation. It might not promise a thousand years of peace on earth, but more important it works today to make the world a better place for all who inhabit it now.

[Stephenie S]

I agree with Thea. Look for and find a church that works for good here and now. A pie in the sky is all well and good, if you don't need it now. Many churches are welcoming to all as a matter of policy, and, I might add, of God's good graces.

Steph

[Sally2005]

Don't worry about it. Just deny it if anyone else asks about it. Does she have proof? She will look pretty foolish to begin with for saying (chuch's point of view here) 'such a nasty thing' to a fellow chuch go'er. Deny it and say she misunderstood, you were telling her you like the bare naked lady CD. hahaha

[trannie T]

Religous beliefs can be so silly. I could never belong to a church that would forgive me for being a crossdresser, as I do not believe that there is anything wrong with being one.

[Toyah]

Ahhhh the joys of being in a closed minded society

[XDW Nathan-Natasha]

but I thought the whole basis of Christian religion though was "forgiveness".?????

That's one of the major aspects of it, yeah. Unfortunately most of us Christians (speaking from my p.o.v. at least) can be so hypercritical about some things that the Bible or church docterine says next to nothing about - like cross-dressing, for example - and be so quick to condemn it and call it a sin that we don't take time to really evaluate it or try to accept it.

I mean, there are a load of other things in the Bible that are clearly labeled as sins. The most pertinent to Christians today are reiterated in the New Testament (unless you're Jewish...then it's the Old 'un exclusively). Jesus never said cross-dressing was sinful. He never even mentions it!

As far as the OT goes there's something mentioned in the Pentatuch (1st 5 books of Ye Holy Text) somewhere that says 'God abhores those who cross-dress...' (mega paraphrase there...) but I don't believe any penalty is listed for doing it (like stoning, or being thrown out onto the freeway during rush hour, etc.) as it is for the other sins (like having sex with livestock).

I dare anyone to read straight through from the start of Matthew to the end of Revelations, and if you find a cross-dressing reference, then I'll give you...um...a prize...? Uh...*thinks about prizes to give* I've got rubber bands and paper clips a-plenty! How about pennies! Oo, oo, oo! Empty pop cans! You can get money for those!

As such, I have no idea why it's such a problem for many Christians to accept cross-dressing. It's mentioned once in the Bible (as opposed to say, stealing or killing). And even in the Catholic Church...it's not brought up in the Catechism (Big ole' instruction manual of the Church and statement of 'this is what we believe and why,' for the non-Catholics out there...) at all, but I'm sure it'd be generally frowned upon by most of the devout out there.

I don't know how it is in Protestant denominations and especially non-Christian religions (like Islam, Buddhism, Judiasm, etc.), but for us Catholics, at least - unless you bring it up it's never really mentioned.

I guess that's why it's so hard for me to understand why people condemn it. I guess it's just because it's out of the social norm.

BTW: I hope I wasn't...:sb:...here. I'm just throwin' what I think about the subject out there. If I was biased or offensive to anyone (or just plain boring) then let me know in a personal message, preferably.

I still think it would suck to be outed at Church! Man, I'd better be a pot smoker, 'cause I'd probably get stoned if my congregation found out! I jest of course...

[Wenda]

I believe that, since Joan d'Arc, no one has been burned at the stake for cross dressing. I don't want to get into theological discussions in this forum, but my relationship with the Creator believes that babies are born in the image of the Lord, not original sin, and that, if we are not distracted by our own weaknesses and evil, we can see the goodness of the Creator in every thing we do and experience every day.
For example, two weeks ago, I was driving west on a gravel road, when I noticed what appeared to be a thin layer of smoke drifting from southeast to northwest, crossing the road 2 or 3 km ahead of me. As I approached this "intersection" i realized that the 'smoke' was, in fact, thousands and thousands of geese, migrating north for the summer. The line stretched, literally as far to the northwest and as far to the southeast as I could see.
I just had to give a little prayer of thanks for the gift of such an incredible experience.
I felt the same emotions in 2003, when I went to the Mexican province of Michoacan to experience the southern end of the Monarch butterfly epoch. When you experience some of the powerful forces of creation, it is difficult to imagine the Creator being troubled by someone in western Canada wearing nylons, or someone in WA wearing a skirt. w.

[Billijo49504]

I think I'd ask her, where she learned the meaning of being a christian....BJ

[Jodie_Lynn]

Just a point, but......


How can you be sure the woman hasn't already spilled the beans?


An old saying: Two men can keep a secret.....if one of them is dead. comes to mind.

And, I also suggest finding another denomination of worship. Although the promises of the afterlife may sound sweet, I bet they would run you out of their holy little sanctuary faster than a bat out of hell if they discovered your secret.


Bit, do as you may, just know that the consequences are on your shoulders.

[Kerrie Sifton]

If you have the chance you should discuss this with her directly, invite her out for tea!..then you might ask her if you had offended her about her hair, that you may not have meant ill. That might help you open the discussion on her threats to out you. This may clear up the miscommunication between the two of you.

:2c:

[Alice Torn]

There is an old joke, about a church, where, the pastor, did not like women wearing their hair up in a bun, or knot. WQhen he saw women with the hair up, he would go, and misquote a scripture, Jesus made, in Matthew 24:17-"Let him which is on the houseTOP NOT COME DOWN to take any thing out of his house." The preacher would thunder, "It is written: Top not come down!!" Since she has had her hair, slicked back, in a bun knot, for the four years I have known her, I sometimes say, "top knot come down." And, for several years, she has said she would let it down, but never does. Like Don Imas, the radio shock jock, that just got fired, for making a racial slur, I also have to be careful not to cross the line, with my tongue! With our words, we are praised, and with our words, we get condemned. She may well, have spread it around, that I cd, because, I found she is a legendary gossip. At this point, I will admit, to others, that I have cd'd in the past, and most guys have, at some time.Women do it most days, even though, they don't consider it that, but, there was a time, when women were not allowed to wear pants. Hey, the woman who threatened to out me, wears pants to church, and not that long ago, they had to wear dresses, or skirts. Who is doing the crossdressing, right in front of everyone?! Really, most of the folks in this church, are good people, giving, kind, friendly, non condemning, knowing they need mercy. "Mercy triumphs over judgment." There are a few bad apples in every group, religiopus, or secular.

[noname]

I used to go to the very conservative churches. I mean the uber conservative type. When I became a bit expressive it became very clear I was not wanted there. I since started going to a very liberal church. I don't like it as much, but I can attend and know that I will be accepted no matter what I wear. You might want to consider going to a different church.

[Girlieboy]

When I was a teenager, I was told by a church member that I would be damned, and burn in the fires of hell forever. My crime? Playing an ugly sister in the Church pantomime! Well, I think that Satan must have forgotten all about me, 'cos I'm still here fifty years later! I have always respected a person's religious beliefs but, having considered the matter greatly, I would much rather go to Hell with decent people than go to Heaven with some of the sanctimonious hypocrites I have met in this life. Perhaps those who live in glass houses.....................!!!

Diane
X

[noname]

go to Heaven with some of the sanctimonious hypocrites I have met in this life.

You know, I just don't believe those kinds of people end up heaven. I'm sure it'll be a shock to them. Though I do feel Jesus is misrepresented by the bulk of "christians".

[Girlieboy]

Agreed 110%!!! You are so right in what you say!

[MsJanessa]

I go to a very conservative church, that considers cding an abomination. It is like a family to me, except for a few folks, and, I have only told one widow that I have had a problem with cding. She said she would never tell anyone at church(that should have been a warning to me!) Today, a group was at a table, discussing Bible, and one of the mimisters was right there. This widow always has her hair in a top knot, and I sometimes asked her when she will let it down. Well, I said "top knot come down", and she quickly told me rather loudly, "Do you want me to tell everyone about your secret problem?" I was about to cringe, and face the music, but, she relented. Whooo! That was close. I only dress, about once, every six weeks, not much of a habit.

My suggestion would be to switch churches, there are plenty of christian demoninations that accept us---why stay with one that condems you?

[LaSirenaBella]

Religous beliefs can be so silly.

They can also be very dangerous.

[Pippilotta]

It is a very common fallacy among Christians - and certainly not only among them ! - to assume that norms of society/culture also are Christian norms. And sometimes it is instead a sharp and by all means proper reaction against secular excesses (alcohol !). It is, consequently, quite instructive to look back let's say 200 years and check out what during this period for various reasons has been regarded as improper behaviour, only to become accepted or tolerated at some later time. This is especially poignant as far as female outer appearance is concerned (for Paul short hair in a woman is plain scandalous). It is, on the other hand, also true that selecting a faith according to one's "needs", true or perceived, is a form of self-deception.
Finally: not everything we enjoy doing needs to be done publicly; I should say that society as such in this respect already has become a bit too tolerant/sloppy/uncaring.

[Staci G]

I belong to a conservative church (Baptist) and they in no way accept crossdressing, although my pastor hit on the subject on night in a lesson we were having. He said that in Deu 22:5 The Bible says men are not to wear that which pertains to a woman and a woman not to wear that which pertains to a man.

He also said that was the old Testament and we have a new covenant with Jesus. The law was fullfilled with the death burial and resurection of Jesus

If you happen to be Jewish and follow the old Testament then you also have a bunch of other laws to follow too. In example not wearing mixed fabrics, build a railing around your roof and many more concering sacrificing animals and the such.

My wife is one of the ones that throws the Bible at me when she wants to argue about the subject of crossdressing which is almost daily. I throw that back at her and tell her to get off the poly/cotton blouse she has on.

Any way good luck with the "top knot" lady and your church..
Love yas

[kassandra richard]

Lucille, and others, I feel your discomfort. Suffice it to say, my discomfort is compounded by the leadership positions I hold in our little Baptist church (I'm not the pastor :) It's not many Sundays that I sit and question the wisdom of a God who would let me (dare I say, compel me) to lead in the ways that I do, all the while knowing that I have this facet of my character that is questionable by the standards of society in general. I think the advice of gentle confrontation with "top not come down" (heavy emphasis on gentle) is wise.

With that, I return to lurking in the shadows...

[Alice Torn]

I agree with those, who say, that religion, is filled with hypocrites, and reigion, tends, to increase denial, blindness, in some. I got into a heated discussion, about a guy, who went, and shot 10 people, and himself, a few years back, in one of our congregations, in the midwest. They said it was a martyrdom, while i know, from the facts, that it was a very lonely, troubled loner guy, who never had a chance to marry, was rejected by his dad, was unemployed. He was give trite advice, not having a place, to dump his pain, was not on meds, full of frustration, anger, resentment. The volcano blew. It is a strict church, full of couples, and fanilies, uneducated on emotional/mental disorders. They say it was satan persecuting the church. NO!! iT WAS A TROUBLED, LONER, who was offended by some poorly given joke, or advice, a volcano that snapped, blew. I am on thin ice, in the church, for taking "minority plank stands". Yes, religion can be dangerous, big time, and the Bible can be used, to hurt people big time. There is also a lot of wisdom, and if a lot of it was understood and followed, we would have less crime, less financial oppression, but, power hungry people, use churchianity, to scare people, about a false everburning hellfire, or wafting off to heaven, when we die. The Bible teaches neither. We die, sleep in the dirt, and are raised later, in a resurrection, like raising from sleep, in the morning, from a night's sleep. Yes, we live in a society, where cding, is looked on as freakish, and, I am sure it won't change soon, if ever. Best to not tell a church person, though, I have told a gay friend, and he is ok with it. He is in a consevative church too, which is about the same as mine, slightly more liberal. I find very liberal churches boring, though they may allow cd's. The church of God, that I attend, has an exciting message, and is different, because, we know, that God has NOT been desperately TRYING to save the whole world, for these thousands of years. What a LOSER He would be, if He has!!! iN ROUGHLY TEN YEARS, He will return, to save the world, from total destruction. Like a beautiful rose bush, with sharp thorns, so is the church, with a hopeful message, but, some things painful, and to have to live with. Same with EVERYTHING, it seems, the bad with the good. Same with cding, the hassle, with the fun. Same with gg's, the wow, with the ouch. How can something, that looks so nice, feel so nice, boss me around, demand her way, always right?!!!