Gender and dressing

[soccervixen]

This may have been covered in some other thread in the past, but as I explore my crossdressing, and reasons why I have begun to do it in the past 6 months, and what I enjoy about it, etc., I have reflected a lot on gender and society.

I do believe there are legitimate roles within gender (obviously a man cannot biologically give birth, that is the special privilege of women, and in my worldview, there are reasons why from God as creator). Yet when it comes to clothing and appearance, it seems much is arbitrary at best, and assigned by us men at worst.

I am finding no desire to be female or a woman as I dress. What I enjoy is the feeling I get from something different - women's clothing, makeup and accessories. At least "women's" as most societies define them. But what is confining is those very definitions. Why is a skirt only for women? High heels? Shaved vs. non-shaved legs. Etc., etc.

I know I am "preaching to the convinved" here.

So I share with you all the confines of a society which has created certain structures which may or may not have any logical basis, or moral for that matter! I want to just be able to walk down the street, go to work, with 4" pumps on with my trousers! And that shouldn't really be a problem.

What I am saying would probably destroy the fashion / cosmetics industries, since they play this up more than anyone.

So I am really seeking not to be a "Crossdresser" as much as I am a "Unisex-dresser". Combining elements of either male or female as I desire, according to my own sense of taste and style. I have no desire to lose my beard and mustache, but see no contradiction with using eyeliner, mascara, and a nice Jimmy Choo velvet pump and a pastel floral sweater.

Can anyone relate to me on this?

Thanks for listening!

[Victoria Anne]

Sorry Soccervixen, when I dress it is because I need to be the woman I feel I am inside, I enjoy the clothes and all the accessories that go with it,the make up everything but most of all emulating a woman feeling as a woman. This is who I am and how I feel most comfortable

[Felix]

A great post Hun I know what ya mean about the constructs within society and the way society says this is how things should be. I find it very frustrating also. I see nothing wrong personally with you wearing things the way you want and wearing make up even if you have men's clothes on so what if ya like a bit of make up. I say go for it deconstruct the norms but be ready for the fall out Hun, if you are strong enough to handle it go for it! I am definitely going against the norms dressing as male in my job but I don't care I'm expressing myself the way I feel comfortable. I've been lucky no fall out as such yet :heehee: So good luck Hun with ya quest!! xx Felix :hugs:

[Kate Simmons]

I agree with Felix, Hon. Wear what makes YOU happy.:happy: Sal

[Marcie Sexton]

I respect you as a human being and for your opinion, but for me. when I'm dressed I am as close to what I have desired for so long...Being a woman...There were, perhaps still are places where both genders dress alike, but for convience, however for me, I want and need to see marcie...She is the life line to sanity for this person...But then again, with the madness going on in Blacksburg not even Marcie can hold on to the life line of sanity...

[Dasein9]

I do believe there are legitimate roles within gender (obviously a man cannot biologically give birth, that is the special privilege of women, and in my worldview, there are reasons why from God as creator). Yet when it comes to clothing and appearance, it seems much is arbitrary at best, and assigned by us men at worst.


I find it helpful to distinguish between biological sex and gender. Gender is clothing, behaviour, and social role. Biological sex is bodies, how they're shaped and what they can do.

Now, there's good reason to think that our understanding of biological sex is just as constructed as gender, since the scientific endeavour is a human endeavour undertaken with certain presuppositions and goals.

Still... The separation of the concepts helps in understanding why some of us guys, for instance, still have to go to the OB/GYN. We're still guys. And it can help explain why some women have penises. Y'all are still women. Why should we believe that biology is the defining factor, after all? There are lots of other aspects of the sex/gender matrix that could just as easily be primary.

[janetcd2]

I am with you I like shoes and underthings and nylons or pantihose but could live without fulling dressing as a women. I move about as a man and no one knows except for the shoes I wear.

[Tara Michele]

I'm with you soccervixen. As I have struggled with crossdressing in various forms thru the decades, I have moved from it being a sexual fetish to a desire to appear female to, what I think is a more integrated state, the desire to just wear what I want to wear. If I want to wear tight jeans with high-heeled boots, what's wrong with that? Well, apparently plenty wrong in some people's eyes, but that's where my struggle is right now.

Now I don't deny that there is still a crossdressing component involved here, since I want to wear WOMENs jeans, WOMENs boots, etc .... though I do wonder if there actually were MENs boots that looked like that would that be good enough? Hard to answer because there aren't.

Regardless, dressing to "pass" has become for me like a costume, and not a presentation of my true self. (I can hear the screams now :Angry3: ... I said for ME girls, not for everyone and not for you). I am realizing that I'm really more comfortable without bra and anatomical assistance under my tops. And I'm also realizing that sometimes a mens cut is more comfortable, sometimes (yes, more often) a womens cut is more comfortable. Interestingly, I find that my mannerisms and comfort with drifting somewhere within that continuum of masculine::feminine are becoming more pronounced. Maybe I'm just getting more comfortable with myself.

[noname]

Can I relate to your post? For a second I thought it was my post. Society has some very crazy idea. ( ie. you need to be famale to have enough belongs to warrent a bag ) I very much hear you. I won't go into all the reason why society is this way right now. Unfortunately, we can't change the world. One of my favorite saying regarding society and it's prejudices...

Sometimes it's hard to believe we are in the 21st century.

[StephanieT]

I also don't really have a desire to transform into a woman either by dressing or physically. I don't have many clothes, no wig and I rarely dress fully. I just want some of the choices women have in hair styles, makeup, and shoes. I am tired of the standard male haircut and have chosen to grow my hair longer. I get many strange looks and comments from most everyone I know every time I see them. I actually think I look better even as a male with a bit of mascara. I love heels and the sound they make as I walk. If the fashion industry would promote makeup and heels for guys, look how much more money they would make. I am sure the jewelry industry is enjoying the extra profits from guys wearing earings. Why can't guys have some of the same choices as women. (I know I am going to get blasted for the last comment)

[Echo Logical]

I very much like being a guy, and for more reasons than just the standing up to pee part.

I also happen to like the sexy high heel boots I bought for myself. I want to dress up lke a woman, not because I feel as if I really ought to have been one from birth, but because I want to experience something a little different, to broaden my horizons, and to strut my stuff in those sexy thigh high boots and that mettalic blue PVC mini-dress.

With mens clothing, I look like me in jeans, or me in a suit, or me in a sweater. I have always been fascinated by the variety of options available for women. It truly amazes me how dramatically a woman can change her appearance, with artistic application of makeup, and choosing the right outfit. I wish that society found it acceptable for men to make the same choices. I want the same ability that any woman has to dramatically change appearance, even little things like accentuate my eyes with a little mascara.

Now on occasion I do fantasize about what it would be like to be a GG. The rest of the time I just like being a guy, a guy who occasionally wears "femme" things.

It would be great if we could just wear whatever we wished. Maybe, given time, we will get there. One day I hope to be able to wear my old ratty work flannel out in public one day, and a nice pencil skirt and heels another day, just never together cause they would clash :p

[Karren H]

Life's sooooo unfair...... your not going to change society or the general public's attitude any time soon... And all this talk about why we crossdress is not worth persueing since if you knew it wouldn't change the fact that you like to wear womens clothes...

So call me shallow, I'd rather dress pretty and go out and have fun than worring about what society thinks...

I'll be at the mall if you need me!! In the dress department..

:D

Love Karren

[Stephenie S]

I like Karren's thoughts here. Obsessing over the "why" can just get in the way of the "what". Just do it. If it's fun, why try to figure out "why" it's fun. I, for one, have no time to waste on trying to figure out why I like this. For me it's just "right".

Steph

[Satrana]

Since you have indicated that your dressing is not related to transgendered desires then your insight is spot on.

You are right, there is no logic whatsoever in how the genders are defined. And since we know that women wearing masculine clothes has not led to the downfall of civilization, then it is just sheer prejudice to think there is anything wrong or immoral with a man wearing feminine clothing.

If society were to recognize feminine clothes as unisex, and not just masculine clothes, then we can do away with the crossdressing label all-together and just wear CLOTHES period and no longer waste our lives wrapped up in shame and guilt and concealing a harmless secret. It is totally ridiculous when you think about it. :o

Crossdressing is one of the last socially acceptable prejudices, we are openly mocked, which just shows how backward our society really is.

[NewBetty]

At first I thought it was all about sexual arousal but now I'm finding that's only part of it.

I suddenly hear myself saying I wanna be girly sometimes.

I was lucky to be in a long term relationship where we didn't adhere to hard and fast gender roles. My girl was always a lil' tuffy and I have always been a BIT femme...

[goofus]

This may have been covered in some other thread in the past, but as I explore my crossdressing, and reasons why I have begun to do it in the past 6 months, and what I enjoy about it, etc., I have reflected a lot on gender and society.

I do believe there are legitimate roles within gender (obviously a man cannot biologically give birth, that is the special privilege of women, and in my worldview, there are reasons why from God as creator). Yet when it comes to clothing and appearance, it seems much is arbitrary at best, and assigned by us men at worst.

I am finding no desire to be female or a woman as I dress. What I enjoy is the feeling I get from something different - women's clothing, makeup and accessories. At least "women's" as most societies define them. But what is confining is those very definitions. Why is a skirt only for women? High heels? Shaved vs. non-shaved legs. Etc., etc.

I know I am "preaching to the convinved" here.

So I share with you all the confines of a society which has created certain structures which may or may not have any logical basis, or moral for that matter! I want to just be able to walk down the street, go to work, with 4" pumps on with my trousers! And that shouldn't really be a problem.

What I am saying would probably destroy the fashion / cosmetics industries, since they play this up more than anyone.

So I am really seeking not to be a "Crossdresser" as much as I am a "Unisex-dresser". Combining elements of either male or female as I desire, according to my own sense of taste and style. I have no desire to lose my beard and mustache, but see no contradiction with using eyeliner, mascara, and a nice Jimmy Choo velvet pump and a pastel floral sweater.

Can anyone relate to me on this?

Thanks for listening!

I hear you, soccer vixen! Although I do enjoy actual appearing to be a woman, not just a guy wearing "women's" clothing...

[BlUeDrAgOn]

Although I do enjoy actual appearing to be a woman, not just a guy wearing "women's" clothing...

Same here! I love to feel like a woman and behave like one, not to feel like a guy experiencing new things. Even when I'm dressing up, I like to do it as a woman should (first a nice shower, then lotions and stuff and then clothes and makeup).

[Sapphire]

There seems to be a very wide spectrum associated with crossdressing. The main thing is that we show each other respect and accept and learn to live with our differences. Mankind has always been in pursuit of altered states; crossdressing may just be one manifestation of the human condition - clearly how we enjoy the experience and how far we go with it varies greatly in our community.

[sobe1ove GG]

I wish my guy was like you, and just wanted to be more feminine and incorporate women's clothes.

The thing I really have a problem with, with this relationship, is that he wants to be perceived as a woman. Well you know what? That's not who I fell in love with.

I wish he could be the one I knew, and not an odd female persona.

Why isn't there a cry emoticon? That's lame.

[BlUeDrAgOn]

There is -> :cry: