Spouse needing help accepting husband being a c/d

[pennie GG]

HELP!!!!
I thought that I could deal with this. My husband of 30 yrs.He has been a c/d for about two years. I just found out about 6 months ago. I tried very hard. Bought clothes with him etc. But he now shaves his legs underarms and every place in between. I don 't have any sexual attraction towards him at all anymore. I 'm really having a hard even looking at him with any womans things on. I'm considering a divorce. He doesn't know how I fell right now. But when he disclosed his c/d he told me that is who he is.:sad: Does anyone have any of these issues?
Pennie

[AllieSF]

Pennie,

After 10 posts you can PM other members and they can PM you too. You will also be able to join some of the other Forums here including the GG forum that is exclusively for GGs (Genetic Girls). There are many who have lived theh same experience and can help you much better than I can. Don't give up hope. You have definitely come to the correct site to air your problems and recieve straight forward responses from others. Good luck.

[Tina Dixon]

Talk to the GG's for advice is the best hon, hope things work out in the long run for you.

[Jodie_Lynn]

HELP!!!!
I thought that I could deal with this. My husband of 30 yrs.He has been a c/d for about two years. I just found out about 6 months ago. I tried very hard. Bought clothes with him etc. But he now shaves his legs underarms and every place in between. I don 't have any sexual attraction towards him at all anymore. I 'm really having a hard even looking at him with any womans things on. I'm considering a divorce. He doesn't know how I fell right now. But when he disclosed his c/d he told me that is who he is.:sad: Does anyone have any of these issues?
Pennie



I highlighted the most important part of your post.

Before doing anything else. You really, really REALLY need to sit down with your husband and discuss this with him.

If you've been married for 30 years, and your relationship is a good one, you should be able to discuss your feelings and he, his.

[marie354]

When my SO first let me dress full time, I went straight into the "pink fog", so to speak. We went shopping, and started to re-do my entire wardrobe.

I now dress as a woman every day, (only in the house), and it had weirded her out a bit.
When I'd try to make love, all she could see was Sandy, even when I'm naked.
I've never been able to explain that I'm still the same person, just "en-lightened" a bit.

I'll admit that I do like dressing as a woman daily, but I do spend some time as Sam as well. Not as much as I used to... Only when I have to. I try to be the man she wants when she asks me to bed, but she still sees Sandy.

This has affected our relationship somewhat. We split-up last month and I created a 2nd bedroom for myself. She wants to stay together now, but I'm not sure anymore. So my femme side has poked a hole in our relationship too.

I'm still trying to work it through. Time will tell.
:hugs:

[susandrea]

Please, please, please go slow.

Carefully educate yourself about crossdressing by reading several books available specifically for spouses of crossdressers, starting with "My Husband Betty", which can be found on Amazon.

Education will at LEAST dispel any fears and misconceptions and help you make a rational decision.

Many spouses do go on to develop an understanding of crossdressing, and also tolerance, and it has even been known to draw a couple closer.

Here is the blog of Helen Boyd, the author of "My Husband Betty", and her new book "She's Not the Man I Married":

http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/

Learning is empowering, and will greatly help you deal with this and make the right choices.

:thumbsup:

Susan

[JudeGG]

Hi Pennie
I'm in the same situation as you - so you are not alone. I've known for a year and I still feel the same as I did when I found out. My marriage is in crisis and I dont know where we'll end up.

PM me if you want to - and get yourself admitted onto the RG forum - it's a cool place to be and you might get some sound advice in there.

Jude x

[Holly]

First of all, hi Pennie and :welcom:.I have to agree with Jodie... you really need to sit down and talk with your husband and tell him in a non-accusational fashion how you feel. Thirty years is a long time to invest in a relationship. My wife and I have been married over 38 ourselves and she knows all about me. Your husband needs to reassure you that he is still committed to the relationship as well and be honest with you as to where he is heading. I can only imagine what you are going through right now, but I can assure you that your husband is scared and frightened as well. Finally, love is not at all about changing another, it's about changing our own hearts. Best wishes to both of you, Pennie.

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Pennie :hugs:

My wife Marla GG accepts and likes my crossdressing, but over the 10 years that she has been aware of the transgender community she wasn't always as accepting as she is now. She wrote some posts about her thoughts and feelings both from the crossdressers and the wife's perspective. Here's links to the posts below. I hope they help.

You and you husband might not be exactly like me and my wife but having knowledge can sometimes give strength. Our solution was to talk and talk and talk. However, I do have to say in all honesty, my wife's baseline was/is perhaps different than most. She finds certain girly looking guys quite attractive - me being one of them, so me being hairless wasn't a problem for her, quite the opposite actually as she hates hairy men!

Rachel

P.S. In the links below my wife refers to me as "Angel" as Angel Darling used to be my screen name here.

Now I Like It, Now I Don’t: Understanding the Acceptance Pendulum (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12890)
Accepting GGs: What makes us different? (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21159)
Some thoughts on acceptance (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9521)
How to tell your partner (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13841)
Tell it To My Heart (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41201)

[Amanduhrob]

Pennie,

No offense, but I seriously doubt he's only been dressing for 2 years, I've never heard of someone starting that late in life. Most, if not all of us have started very young.

That being said, there seems to be a lack of communication between the two of you. Talk to the man, explain your feelings to him, and come to an equitable compromise, one you BOTH can live with.


Thats my :2c:

[Krystal Lee]

Pennie,

After 30 years of sharing life you thought you had seen it all and nothing could affect you anymore?

You said he has been doing this for two years and you have only known for six months. He has wreslted with this lots longer than two years. It is possable he did not recognize this in himself and took many years to resolve it for himself.

You however got the load in one shot and it sounds like you are staggering.
Just take a little time and you try to adjust also.

Have the two of you ever been through anything to challange your lives together before? How did you handle those situations? Together or whichever one of you had to fight the dragon?

After thirty years on one side and six months on the other you have let the scales slip to the six month side?

Talk to him. The two of you need to comunicate now as much as at any time in your marrage.

In sickness and in health, for better or for worse. I know people think of that as trite but it is not. Think of the balance of your life together before you let those scales balance out on the heave end at six months.

I am not trying to come down on you, just get you to realize the totallity of your lives together before you call an end to things.

Hugs Krystal.

[cocopuff's girl GG]

Hi Pennie and :welcom: . I too have been where you are. I can definetly relate. I was not sure how this thing was gonna go at first but this site really helped me just by reading other people's post to see how the CDer feels as well as the GG. First of all not sure if you know, at first I was like what does GG mean and what is CD. GG for me is genetic Female meaning I was born a girl with girl plumbing... and the CD is just short for crossdresser. I guess you kinda figured that one huh??? I definetly agree that before you have papers drawn up and totally make up your mind that divorce may be the answer I'd sit down with him and discuss it in detail. I think your marriage is worth it. It was awful at first cause there were so many things going through my head and as I'd have questions I'd go to him and ask. I remember there for a bit just hoping it was all a bad dream and I'd wake up soon and it would all be over. That didn't happen and then I continued to read that if this has been going on for a while most likely it won't go away and stay away. Yes it seems the Cder can stop for a while month's maybe years, for some weeks but most likely it won't toatlly go away. The way I looked at it was there are so many other things that he could be doing that would be so much worse. Since him telling me he has been so much more loving towards me and the bedroom has been hot if you know what I mean but it did take some time. At first after telling me he wouldn't even look at me and walked around miserable cause he felt ashamed of this thing he likes to do but then after we talked many, many times things got better. He and I set some ground rules and agreed that he'd go slow with it and give me time to adjust. He doesn't do it all the time and i don't think right now he wants to at least he say's he don't. The CDing is really something I still don't truly understand but bottom line, he's a goodman. A great provider, he doesn't drink or do drugs. He is respectful of me and my family. He doesn't cheat (that I know of) He doesn't have a gambling problem, He doesn't take his anger out on me or beat me. The way I look at it if putting on a pair of panties and a skirt or what ever makes him feel better once in a while it really is not hurting me . It may be a little weird but hey so are alot of other things in this world. I've known about his CDing since right around Christmas this past year. I didn't get to this point overnight and just keeping a open mind and seeing how things could be alot worse has helped me deal with this. PLease talk to him and tell him your anxieties and fears and what you can and cannot deal with at this point. Don't throw in the towel just yet. 30 years is a long time. I'm sure you've seen alot of rough spots along the way. I wish you the very best. I have been divorced too and had two boys and that's not a peachy life either. :love: and :hugs:

[MelissaAndProudOfIt]

Hiya Pennie

Is you're husband 30 years old, or have you been married to him for 30 years. As how you worded it, leaves us to assume one or the other, so a bit Vague.

Secondly, The issue's not a Crossdressing Issue as such, as you seemed to have agreed to buy him his clothes, if you hadn't agreed and didn't like him crossdressing, then I would see your point.

Third!.... His shaving of his body is the real problem, no longer has he got male hair, oh dear dear... hair can be shaved and it can grow, so how about compromise, say to him... sometimes he can shave, othertimes please let it grow, that way you can enjoy him as you like him, and learn to like his bare version too.. it really need not be the be and end all of a relationship. When you love someone, you love them with all their imperfections too... so long as they are not morally wrong or painful or harmful in any way....

Forth! (Most unbelievable part) You haven't even mentioned how you feel about his body shaving! I won't even mention the dressing part as thats actually no problem (or you wouldn't have bought him any cding gear!).. If you really love him, then really love, body shaving for a devorce case has to be the most unbelievable reason for a devorce. Then consider the mess of the devorce when compromise could have solved it all, through communication with him. As devorces are or can be very expensive and very lengthy, depending on the reasons of the devorce... your reason would be interesting, thats all i can say! I am devorcing my guy, because he shaved off his hair! MMm!!??, not to mention it would be embarrassing to him, to have such a matter brought to public notice...is that how much you love him...one can but wonder. I might sound a bit iffy here, but i really think this matter can be sorted out to the happyness of you both....love is about give and take.... so give a little, and take less. and life will become more colourful and less heartbreak.


Personally I cannot see a problem here, at least it's nothing a bit of compromise and time cannot put right.

If you love someone, you love them physically, emotionally and in spirit too

Not just Physically!

Next:

Whatever happened to this term...

"Treat other's, the way you yourself would like to be treated"


Regards


Melissa

[MJ]

Hi Pennie and welcome to the forum, i am sorry to hear about these issues but please try and sit down with your husband and talk about this, but don't make hasty decision if you love him you need to talk about this...
i wish you well

[Valerie]

Hi, Pennie,

I wonder if you feel that crossdressing means your husband cannot love you as before and therefore the marriage is not worth continuing. If you were happy before, I hope you give him some time and your relationship a chance. As you will probably read in this forum, most of us who have been married for many decades love our wifes with devotion. I can say that since I told my wife about my fascination with women's clothes and my feminine sense of being, my love for her has only increased. :welcom:
Valerie

[Rachel Morley]

As devorces are or can be very expensive and very lengthy, depending on the reasons of the devorce... your reason would be interesting, thats all i can say! I am devorcing my guy, because he shaved off his hair! MMm!!??
That's uncalled for, and IMHO shows a complete lack of understanding and empathy. You're not getting it are you? ... it's got nothing to do with the hair removal per se ... it's what it represents :Angry3:

[Melanie R]

[QUOTE=susandrea;833659]Please, please, please go slow.

Carefully educate yourself about crossdressing by reading several books available specifically for spouses of crossdressers, starting with "My Husband Betty", which can be found on Amazon.

For the first book written by a wife who has her doctoral degree in psychology and cultural studies and is married to a crossdresser, read My Husband Wears My Clothes by Dr. Peggy Rudd - www.amazon.com. You will find the answers in this book.

[MelissaAndProudOfIt]

That's uncalled for, and IMHO shows a complete lack of understanding and empathy. You're not getting it are you? ... it's got nothing to do with the hair removal per se ... it's what it represents :Angry3:

Thanks for you're comment....

What does it represent, seems you are the one with all the answers!?

It Represents nothing! It assumes everything! If Penny loves her husband, which i was under the impression that she did. I was merely helping her to see the light, at least the switch!

Penny has nothing to be upset or afraid about, until she has spoken to her husband, If it lands out he's very straight then great!, where's the problem! If he's BI or Gay at least he finally came round to telling his wife, but thats her and his business not ours. What i wrote was in direct reply to what was wrote. Sometimes it helps not to be personally involved, but to observe and see things as they stand and not try to look deeper into things and let the facts speak for themselves.

Has Penny no voice to write in reply, that you feel cause that you needed to, if you have that right, then i too have rights, to write what i want to write, if i feel it will help. What have you wrote in reply to Pennies Plight, nothing. .. so there you go.. what does that represent! (Oh and if the Moderator read's this message!) which i sincerely hope she does, then i intend to stand by this right!!!

I have only wrote what i thought, it was constructive, ok direct too!

I did understand and i do empathise, as i am engaged and have had to face the same issues myself, so I think in fact I am very aware of the issues at play in this discussion. I was also helping by saying to compromise, which i have done.. and me and my partner have agreed this compromise, and the fact i shaved my body represents what!!!!? as surely you're answer to that question will be the same for me and for her husband. As the poor chaps not known what his wife has thought and said on this forum in his own defense. Now thats not very understanding or one of empathy is it.


Melissa

[tommi]

I agree with you Rachel that shaving all the hair off just makes it look to femme.
I think the biggest thing though is talking to your spouse Pennie,let him know
how you feel and give him a chance to adjust.
Please don't through away a 30year marriage over a hairless body without
telling him you do not care for it.
Goodluck
Tommi

[Kerry Owens]

Hi Pennie, ten posts, and you can pm the other GG members who are wives or SO's of the CD members (oh, but what a alphabet soup I've learned!) and you can be in our forum. It does help, honest and being aware that you are not alone helps tremendously. You do need to sit down and talk, real discussion from the heart with each other. Without this communicating it is very hard to keep a marriage alive...it's true of all marriages.
Looking forward to you being part of the GG forum.

[kerrianna]

Hi Pennie, glad you found us. I hope we can be of help to both of you. Do try to get your 10 posts and join the GGs, most of whom have experienced what you are going through.

As you go along, and please do try to be patient - you have 30 years together so it's worth fighting for - hopefully you will find some ways to deal with this TOGETHER with your husband, who might also benefit from joining us.

I'm not sure where he is in his journey, but my own experience has shown me that it changes and shifts as we discover more about ourselves. Many of us end up pulling back after we've pushed ourselves out, because we find some things just don't work for our own situations. Open communication with our partners is crucial to making it work.

I hope you two can at least give it your best shot, and we're all happy to help you do that.

Good luck Pennie. :hugs:

[claireswife-gg]

Pennie,

Take it slow honey. This is a lot to absorb and adjust to, but like others have said it is something that taking it slow and communicating openly and often can help. I am married to a transsexual, not a crossdresser, so my case is a bit different than yours, but still it's a big life shift. Go get those books and read, and be forceful with your spouse that you need to talk about going slower or compromising. With lots of love and understanding, it is very easy to make this work. But you may have to give yourself some time to rediscover your spouse.

Good luck! You can email me if you need to - my details are on here and in my blog in my signature. :hugs:


Melissa,

What Rachel is saying here is that you are kind of lobbing a huge grenade at the OP about the shaving. If you read her post again, you'll see it isn't just the shaving. It's that it is overwhelming her.

[Rachel Morley]

and the fact i shaved my body represents what!!!!?
All those exclamation marks.... you need to calm down Melissa :happy: What it represents (to me) is that in Pennie's original post she says "I tried very hard. Bought clothes with him etc. But he now shaves his legs underarms and every place in between. I don 't have any sexual attraction towards him at all anymore. (because of what she has written) this suggests to me that shaving his body to this extent represents a progressive step down the cd spectrum for her, it's not just clothes anymore, like Tommi says, it also represents a (somewhat) feminization of the body, and if she likes hairy men, then this effects her attraction towards him, (she said as much) which again is more than just crossdressing in it's literal sense, it's also (possibly) represents a betrayal of trust because if she has been buying him clothes then presumably they have talked about things a little, and if they have talked about the right things the husband should know that his wife is not totally cool with things as they are, so by going ahead and shaving his body without presumably mentioning this to his wife (otherwise why the alarm that he's done it), he is pushing the issue without any consideration for his wife's feelings. :2c:

I'm sorry you and I disagree on this Melissa, I'm sure you are lovely understanding and empathic person, but what you wrote (to me) seemed a little off the cuff and rather unnecessarily blunt to a GG who's first post on this forum was to dive in the deep end of the main forum to ask for help.

P.S. you said:

What have you wrote in reply to Pennies Plight, nothing. .. so there you go.. what does that represent!
I replied before you did actually (post #9) and I gave her my thoughts plus 5 links to material that others have told me and my wife they found helpful.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Pennie,

Join the GG forum. There are some wonderful understanding women there and you will be posting ONLY to women. GG stands for Genetic Girl, or Genuine Girl. You will find all the support you need there.

About your huband and his CDing? You need to talk. Talk, talk, talk, and then talk some more. Communication is the key here. There are sooooo many assumptions you can make if you don't communicate properly and many of those assumptions may be wrong.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[susandrea]

[QUOTE=susandrea;833659]Please, please, please go slow.

Carefully educate yourself about crossdressing by reading several books available specifically for spouses of crossdressers, starting with "My Husband Betty", which can be found on Amazon.

For the first book written by a wife who has her doctoral degree in psychology and cultural studies and is married to a crossdresser, read My Husband Wears My Clothes by Dr. Peggy Rudd - www.amazon.com. You will find the answers in this book.

Yes, that's an excellent one, too. :thumbsup:

[racquel]

Dear Pennie I wish you well.I hope you can talk to your husband and have him join the forum as well so we may have the opportunity to help him make the transition a little smoother.As spoken of before we "gurls" sometime have a habit of getting carried away when we start dressing and sometimes lose sight of the effect that is having on those around us.:hugs:

[Sheila]

Pennie,
firstly congratulation on 30 years of marriage, thats a long time. Secondly welcome to the forum, it's a good place to be, there are some wonderful people on here ........... I have been a member here now for 8 months (it's 8 1/2 months since I discovered my partner is a cdr).

Most of us SO's have struggled with one issue or another over cding, as have many of the cdr's themselves. Many a time I have come here not knowing why I was feeling like I was feeling one day when just the day before everything was calm and we were doing just great.

Talking as has already been said is an important step in the process for you both to become comfortable with CDing. If you find that you are not comfortable talking at the moment, you could perhaps write your husband a letter saying how you are feeling and write down your fears and worries, ..... I did that when I discovered M's cding, and he couldn't explain things to me, I then made him read it, we then had a talk and that helped for a while, it enabled us to take another baby step down the road we now travel together. There have been several bumps along the way, some minor, some bigger but we walk together still.

Bounderies are another way forward for you both, they need not be written in stone and can be moved as each of you agree to the moving of them. If you find that one day you are okay with something and the next not, don't beat yourself up about it, you might find that tommorow or next week you can cope with it again.

I hope to see you in the GG section after your initial 10 mposts you can apply to join us in there.

Keep talking :hugs:

Jess

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Hi Pennie & welcome to forum :happy: ..... now take a deep breath , and you have done a very brave thing, found somewhere to get advice/help, & opening up and saying how ur really feeling hun about ur husband :hugs:
& i think the fact that you have come here, and said this, shows your wanting to sort this out , and thats a positive start :hugs:
As Jess has said , many of us GG's have been where you are right now ( still are ) !! but it can be managble . its a hard road to take, and wont be sorted over-night hun, but..... anything is possible. i hope you will join the GG forum :happy: you will get so much help/support, and it will help you sort things out in ur mind :hugs:

[Sheri 4242]

Hi, Pennie!

I am glad you found this site. There are GG's here (and even some CD's) who can truly help you with information and edification. This is, IMHO, the very best site to be on (and my wife is looking over my shoulder and saying to tell you she agrees). My wife got on another site several years ago that was of no help at all -- it (the other site) was not a place to find an open, honest dialogue with sound advice and a full range of experiences from the perspectives of GG's and CD's; the other site was a "let's bash CD's" site. Here, you'll find a wide range of histories -- and many people who have been right where you are, looking at what path to take.

To your specific situation, a few comments. First, I have to agree that your husband most likely has been CDing for longer than he has admitted. I guess it is possible, but it isn't the norm. Most CDers have been CDing (and/or wanted to CD, and have known about their desires) from an early age. This, in part, is why you need to go slow at this point. His CDing is probably something he has lived with for a very long time -- and you cannot begin to fathom at this point in time the likelihood that he has lived an agonizing life, one filled with great fear and tremendous guilt!!!

Second, PLEASE don't throw away a long marriage without really working at this issue!!! Thus far several have suggested some reading materials to start with. Some have suggested open dialogue with your husband, and I agree, but with one prefactory comment: learn all you can first so that you truly understand all you can about the subject of heterosexual male crossdressing. I'd like to take this a step further: ask your husband to find a good counselor for you both to go to -- making certain the counselor has experience in gender issues!!!!!!! Hand-in-hand with what you learn from reading and studying, a good counselor can be invaluable!!!

Finally, while you feel your marriage is in crisis, please don't act on impulse and misunderstanding. I don't know if you can ever get there, but there are many a GG who become tolerant -- and there are many who become accepting and encouraging. You may not see this right now, but for the sake of the many years of your marriage -- and hopefully b/c you love your husband -- see it through, slowly and with as open a mind as possible. In my case, my wife came to the realization that many of the traits she liked best about me were direct extensions of my being a CD.

If you need to, set reasonable bounaries for your husband's CDing -- ask him to respect them while you educate yourself, while you two talk, and while you two get counseling. Boundaries are always moveable later -- for the present, they serve to keep things at a tolerable point.

We're here for you! PM any of us once you get your ten posts!

[Di]

You have made a big first step coming here....and everyone has given you wonderful ideas. I will just repeat a few...talk...talk talk....read and talk somemore. You have all us to talk to as well, AND remember one thing...your hubby is still the same person that you fell in love with.

[sandra-leigh]

First, I have to agree that your husband most likely has been CDing for longer than he has admitted. I guess it is possible, but it isn't the norm. Most CDers have been CDing (and/or wanted to CD, and have known about their desires) from an early age.

It varies. I didn't discover crossdressing until I was 43. I had tried on some of my wife's things sometimes for a few years before that, but with the thought of getting ideas of how they would look on her (that and simple curiosities such as "Aren't those uncomfortable?"): put them on, take a quick look, take them off again. I had no thought of wearing the clothes, and no thoughts that I might have a lurking "feminine side" or whatever. Then there was a day where I tried on a couple of short skirts that I'd bought for my wife that she was decidedly Not Wearing, wanting to get an idea of how great they would look on her if only she would wear them; when the thought crossed my mind that I could wear such clothes, it was a complete revelation! Why then and not earlier in my life? What changed in me? Possible answer: at the time I had recently started taking a medication that has little-known sexual side effects.

Was there absolutely nothing in my "early age" to foreshadow this development? Well, it is true that from a teenager (perhaps earlier), I have wondered about the "experience" of being female, about how it must feel different, how the body sensations must be different, how the social treatment is different. It was the age of explicit feminism, and hearing about feminism did make me wonder "What's it like to be a woman?". That curiosity is still with me today, but a curiosity is different than an action or active study. I think that any male with a healthy sense of empathy must wonder about how it feels to be treated as a woman -- curiosity doesn't explain why I had a fairly good taste in buying clothes for my wife (and enjoyed doing so). So there were influences within me that I wasn't consciously aware of: but that's the point, that it really is possible to have crossdressing lurk unrealized until one is 40 or 50 or 60 or whatever, and only then discover it.

Possibly Pennie might find it productive to ask her husband not "How long have you been doing this, really?", but instead "Tell me more about how you came to realize this about yourself?"

[Abby Lauren]

Just about everything is relative.
You've discovered something that is very hard to accept. OK. That can't be the first such thing for you, can it? How did you deal with other issues over the last 30 years?
Please remember to try to have perspective. Your husband is not a child molester or a crook or a drug addict or an adulterer. He's a crossdresser. How objectionable is that to you on a scale of 1 to 100? If it doesn't rank with the other things mentioned, does it become less problematic for you? Can you find ways to find a modus vivendi with him- with the aim of both of you finding your own ways to happiness?
Let's now assume that you are very sexually turned off by his revelation and his shaving, as you indicated. If he (or you) were rendered impotent by medications (and there are a whole host of them), would that also mean the end of your marriage or would you try to find other ways to be intimate?
Before I'd throw away 30 years of marriage and all that comes with it (friends, community, possessions, kids, etc.), I'd try whatever I could -including couples' therapy- and hope that adjustments can be found.
Best of luck to both of you.

[Dasein9]

Please remember to try to have perspective. Your husband is not a child molester or a crook or a drug addict or an adulterer. He's a crossdresser. How objectionable is that to you on a scale of 1 to 100? If it doesn't rank with the other things mentioned, does it become less problematic for you? Can you find ways to find a modus vivendi with him- with the aim of both of you finding your own ways to happiness?


I know guys who have secret stashes of porn -- the harmful kind, not the merely fun stuff. I know guys who drool over their gun collections more than they do women. I know guys who seem a little too interested in the teenage girls who sit together during church. I know guys who think it's their duty to hit their wives from time to time, so she doesn't forget who's the boss.

This is not to say your feelings and worries aren't valid, Pennie, because they are. But I'm only trying to say that it sounds like you have a marriage that is good, aside from the cross dressing. And there's no rule that you have to be turned on by a shaved husband or by a husband who likes to wear pretty things. At the same time, it would be a darned shame to let it ruin your marriage. Surely y'all have worked out other difficult issues before. Can you use the same methods to work this one out?

[Rikkicn]

I think she could try and research and move slowly etc etc. but in my honest opinion if I was told that I was no longer sexually desirable and that I turned my wife off I would be out of there as fast as I could.
The world is full of people who will love you nd find you sexy just the way you are or want to be.
You may have to work long and hard to find them but they are there. I've met many!
How can we continue to live and share our lives with those that see us as abhorrent. That have no compassion, that see us as lying rather than souls that are scarred and hurting and need the help and support of those that are supposed to love us.

We Must give ourselves the chance and the freedom to live our most happiest lives. That's what were her to do after all.

[Rikkicn]

This is not to say your feelings and worries aren't valid,
I don't think her feelings are valid at all. She must not love him, really, really love him, to the bottom of her heart love him. If she did then this would be unfolding very differently.
There are many things that can happen to our selves and our partners during a long marriage and we love them enough to endure the changes and sacrifices that we need to make..not because we have to but because we love them so much that have an overwhelming desire to be there and support them in their time of need.
There are thousands of cding couples that have enough love and compassion to continue loving and not caring what the rest of the world thinks.
This is a true and deep and soul nurturing love.

[sandra-leigh]

I don't think her feelings are valid at all. She must not love him, really, really love him, to the bottom of her heart love him. If she did then this would be unfolding very differently.

And if she doesn't "really, really love him to the bottom of her heart", then her feelings have no validity at all??

I am somewhat at a loss to answer to that insensitivity. Everyone loses when you play the "You don't really really love me to the bottom of your heart" game. "If you loved me, really really loved me to the bottom of your heart, you wouldn't leave your socks on the floor | you would rinse your coffee cup before the coffee dries | you would buy me a fur coat | you would demand a raise from your boss | you would buy me cigarettes | you would stop humming in the back of your throat like that | you would get yourself "fixed" so we wouldn't risk having another child | you would stop watching the women go by | you would go on a diet | you would get that mole that bugs me so much removed | you would disown your mother because she secretly hates me, otherwise she wouldn't have brought christmas cake three years ago because she knows I hate walnuts | you would quit your monthly bowling league and stay home with me | you would get rid of that eyesore of a painting that your grandfather gave you | you would have bought me a bigger engagement ring | you would stop crossdressing | you would take out the trash without my having to remind you." Because you don't do these things, you don't really really love me, from the bottom of your heart.

[JudeGG]

If I've learned anything over the last year - it's that CD's/TV's have a very narrow vision. Because they don't see anything wrong with what they do by pushing boundaries or lying and hiding things from partners etc etc - they cannot understand how some SO's might have a problem with it.

I've no doubt that Pennie loves her hubby very very much - you dont spend 30 years with somebody without loving them. And this is new thing for her to deal with - just because she's having a problem, doesnt mean she doesnt love her hubby. The fact that she's here at all trying to deal with it - means she's trying to work it out - COS SHE LOVES HIM. The fact that she's not turned on by him at present - is very different from loving him

For a group of people who often claim to be sensitive because they have a feminine side - you dont half get it badly wrong sometimes

[Rikkicn]

Because they don't see anything wrong with what they do by pushing boundaries or lying and hiding things from partners etc etc - they cannot understand how some SO's might have a problem with it.



Why is that trying to live our lives in a the way that make our lives most fulfilling, satisfying is wrong. Speaking for myself, of course I'm going to push the boundaries if I'd had been living in a closet most of my life. Wouldn't everyone want to stretch real good after being cramped into a small space for a very, very long time?

What appears to be pushing boundaries would make perfect sense if we were deeply understood and respected and the quality of our lives was considered of importance.

For many of us CDing is at the core of who we are as beings. Some of us know this about ourselves early in life. Others, like me, take a long time for the seed to unfold and for us to understand that this is something needs to blossom and bloom if we are to feel like we've lived our lives fully.

[Sheila]

If I've learned anything over the last year - it's that CD's/TV's have a very narrow vision. Because they don't see anything wrong with what they do by pushing boundaries or lying and hiding things from partners etc etc - they cannot understand how some SO's might have a problem with it.

I've no doubt that Pennie loves her hubby very very much - you dont spend 30 years with somebody without loving them. And this is new thing for her to deal with - just because she's having a problem, doesnt mean she doesnt love her hubby. The fact that she's here at all trying to deal with it - means she's trying to work it out - COS SHE LOVES HIM. The fact that she's not turned on by him at present - is very different from loving him

For a group of people who often claim to be sensitive because they have a feminine side - you dont half get it badly wrong sometimes
:iagree: well put Jude


Title of thread
Spouse needing help accepting husband being a c/d

this is a first post by a partner "trying" to find help "trying" to get a handle on this "trying" to ask for help "trying" after 30 years of marriage to find a solution to save it otherwise she would not be here

(tess-leigh, Dasein9, Barbara4242, racquel, Stephenie S, Rachel Morley, kerriaTina Dixon, nna, tommi, Melanie R, Valerie, MJ, Krystal Lee, Holly, marie354, Jodie-Lynn, aluchi_aluchona,) ............ Thanks gurls, sense and sensitivity, caring and compassionate, I am proud to be part of your family

Jess

[kittypw GG]

Rikkon,
Way to talk like a pompous man. It is easy for you to say those things cause it is not you that is getting all of this shoved down your throat and told like it or lump it. I get the feeling by the way that you talk, you would not comprimise your feelings and would throw out the cd if the shoe were on the other foot.

Pennie,
The fact that you are here trying to find some answers speaks volumes about your commitment to your marriage. My biggest mistake was to not talk about my feelings of unease because I was afraid of hurting my hubby's feelings. It is important to keep the communication open and to have boundries. If you don't have a few respectiful rules then you are likely to reach a point that will be hard to return from. Remember marriage is not about one person having it all their way.

I can relate to the body hair issues. I personally like chest hair and it is one of the things that distinguish a man from a women. We did not get involved with a women now did we. Maybe you could comprimise and get him to agree to seasonal shaving so that you can still have the man that you envisioned. Your feelings are just as valid as his and don't ever forget it.

Hope to see you in the gg forum soon. Pm me if you need someone to talk to and hang in there dear. :love: Kitty




I think she could try and research and move slowly etc etc. but in my honest opinion if I was told that I was no longer sexually desirable and that I turned my wife off I would be out of there as fast as I could.
The world is full of people who will love you nd find you sexy just the way you are or want to be.
You may have to work long and hard to find them but they are there. I've met many!
How can we continue to live and share our lives with those that see us as abhorrent. That have no compassion, that see us as lying rather than souls that are scarred and hurting and need the help and support of those that are supposed to love us.

We Must give ourselves the chance and the freedom to live our most happiest lives. That's what were her to do after all.

[Fab Karen]

For a group of people who often claim to be sensitive because they have a feminine side - you dont half get it badly wrong sometimes

You find the statements of a couple people to be insensitive to the original poster, so ALL crossdressers are like that? :rolleyes:

[Fab Karen]

Just about everything is relative.
You've discovered something that is very hard to accept. OK. That can't be the first such thing for you, can it? How did you deal with other issues over the last 30 years?
Please remember to try to have perspective. Your husband is not a child molester or a crook or a drug addict or an adulterer. He's a crossdresser. How objectionable is that to you on a scale of 1 to 100? If it doesn't rank with the other things mentioned, does it become less problematic for you? Can you find ways to find a modus vivendi with him- with the aim of both of you finding your own ways to happiness?
Let's now assume that you are very sexually turned off by his revelation and his shaving, as you indicated. If he (or you) were rendered impotent by medications (and there are a whole host of them), would that also mean the end of your marriage or would you try to find other ways to be intimate?
Before I'd throw away 30 years of marriage and all that comes with it (friends, community, possessions, kids, etc.), I'd try whatever I could -including couples' therapy- and hope that adjustments can be found.
Best of luck to both of you.
Very thoughtful & well put. Sometimes relationships take some kind of compromise. A therapist can be very helpful to a couple for them to better see things from each other's viewpoint.

[MsMichelle]

Pennie,

No offense, but I seriously doubt he's only been dressing for 2 years, I've never heard of someone starting that late in life. Most, if not all of us have started very young.

That being said, there seems to be a lack of communication between the two of you. Talk to the man, explain your feelings to him, and come to an equitable compromise, one you BOTH can live with.


Thats my :2c:

Without any doubt the key word here is COMPROMISE. I have a very supportive wife of 12 years. Our sucess has been soley built on honesty and compromise. We have been supporting married couples for over six years now and we can never emphasize enough to continue talking, get as much information as you need and then work out a comprimise situation that you can both live with.

[Tree GG]

Penny,

Welcome to the forum and I think it shows you are willing to compromise and try to understand just by being here. Sorry your initial post received some really antagonistic replies, but just like anywhere else, you'll find a wide range of opinions and personalities here.

What counts the most is your and your CD's opinions and feelings. Talk is cheap, but it is also essential to getting through these phases. Your feelings are understandable and common - very few wives who find out later in the relationship embrace crossdressing wholeheartedly at first. It can take years. To me, it sounds like your participation and show of support was interpretted by your husband as clearance to proceed at will. Maybe he didn't know you had some boundaries that made you uncomfortable - maybe you didn't know.

Educate yourself, and talk with your husband. There is a broad range of transgenderness and only he can say where he is and wants to be on that continuum.

Best of luck and don't let a few negative, judgemental comments discourage you from seeking the support you need.

[pennie GG]

As for all the person's that try to give up lifting responses.I thank you. As for the negative reply. You wonder why being a C/D can destroy relationships it's because of your close mindness. Well I have been married for 30 years but that's not the issue. and Yes we have been through a lot ,again not the issue, I'm trying to deal with a person I have been spent half my life with, that I now don't know who he/she is.That's the issue!! :mad:
The fact he shaved all his hair just shocked me. He painted his nails, toes bright red, our neighbor came over and he had no shoes on, it totally embrassed me. I have asked him to remove the polish which he still hasn't. He works in our yard with super shorts on that I hate!!::Angry3: : Again, I have asked him not to but he stills does. I can handle change but I married a man and I want to be married to a man. I thought that by posting some of my issues I could try to understand something about it. Just because YOU decide to do something in a marriage like this doesn't mean the other person has to accept it. I might post again I'm not sure.:2c:
Thanks again for the postive replys.
Pennie

[Emily Ann Brown]

Pennie,


I applaud you trying to understand your fellow. Lord knows we are certainly hard to understand....some of us don't fully understand ourselves. There are some great GGs here. Share your heart with a few of them and listen to their experience.


Emily Ann

[Rikkicn]

Just because YOU decide to do something in a marriage like this doesn't mean the other person has to accept it.
Pennie

This is were my concerns lies. For many of us, crossdressing isn't something we decide to do it's something we must do. This is part of who we are and
how we were born. Gay men and lesbians don't "decide" to be that way. They are born that way. We are not the same but the argument is similar. This is not an easy path we've been given and many of us struggle our whole lives, never finding happiness, contentment and someone who'll hear our secret and love us anyway.

We struggle with our feelings of shame, guilt and embarrassment. We come to loath who we are and often hope that it will just go away, but it doesn't. It won't leave us alone. We purge over and over thinking "this is it, I can lick this thing" We can't, it comes from someplace so deep inside of us like a river of lava. It must continue to flow. The river is who we are.

Eventually some of us come to a different understanding of ourselves and we learn to accept and make ours lives happier. We begin to heal from our years of confinement. This takes most of us many hours of thought, meditation and years of soul searching, reading and studying. Some have a spiritual awakening and come to understand we are all divine and everything is Ok.

I have felt the disdain of my ex wife as I inhaled my first deep breath of freedom. I was coming out, trying to be me and my wife of 30 years, who told me she loved me all those years, couldn't stomach me. A pair of panties, toe nail polish and lipstick. After all the difficult times it was these things that were just too much.

She was so traumatized by what people would think, her friends, family and neighbors that they became more important to her than me. We could have moved to a more welcoming area of the country. We could have found counselors or gone to support groups, read and discussed the literature
together but she wasn't interested. She didn't love me enough to even try. I was crushed when I realized this. I had thought that our 27 years of marriage and love would it least make it worth trying really, really hard.

True I keep a secret from her. A deep, dark, shameful secret. I was afraid that she would never understand, that she would hate me, that she wouldn't try to love me, no matter what I wore.

The story ends happily for me: remarried, full time and ecstatic everyday

[Rikkicn]

Rikkon,
Way to talk like a pompous man. It is easy for you to say those things cause it is not you that is getting all of this shoved down your throat and told like it or lump it. I get the feeling by the way that you talk, you would not comprimise your feelings and would throw out the cd if the shoe were on the other foot.


I guess I'm not clear on what is getting shoved down who's throat.
For the last 50 or so years it's been shoved down my throat that I must be a certain kind of man or I was terrible, perverted and sick. If caught, shame and punishment and sometimes abuse. Why do we keep secrets? Seems like the natural thing to do, don't you?
Coming out to a spouse could also be considered a great act of courage that could be met with opens arms and heart and a loving shoulder to cry on.
We've all read post after post about wanting to come out but were afraid of what would happen, of how our wives would respond. We work hard to getting ready to finally tell the love of our lives about our shame guilt and fears, hoping beyond all hope that she would love us anyway. Revealing our true selves is the hardest thing in the world to do, but we do it. We tell her.
Now the dynamics change and we find out the revealing our true selves is now considered shoving ourselves down someones throat.
How do we deal with that? How are we supposed to think about ourselves if that is the metaphor that is used about our lives?

[Dasein9]

I don't think her feelings are valid at all. She must not love him, really, really love him, to the bottom of her heart love him.

Emotional reactions are never invalid. And nobody owes sexual attraction to another, or is a bad person for not being attracted to certain things. To suggest they do or are is every bit as tyrranical as the bigotry that's directed against people like us.


Pennie, I know it seems like you're suddenly faced with not knowing this man you've been living with. In some ways, that's true. Whether he's been dressing or not, he's probably wanted to, and has hidden that. Now, for whatever reason, he's going with what he desires, and it's understandable that you find this strange, and may be hurt that he's always hidden it from you.

But in many ways, he hasn't changed, except on the surface. I'm willing to bet he's still got the same sense of humour, the same sense of taste, and the same character that you love.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy to come to grips with this, but it may not be as catastrophic as it feels right now. Maybe it would help to spend some time concentrating on what hasn't changed, telling him that's what you want to do? Maybe a movie that you'll both like, or a short trip to a local attraction you've both always wanted to see would help re-establish the foundation that you feel is shaking right now?

Anyway, I know we've just met and all, but if it's okay: :hugs: (Hugs to you.)

[Dana]

Actually? Its not really just about crossdresssing, nor is just about the clothes he wears or doesn't wear. What its about is about your emotional needs as a woman and as a person.

What is at issue here is that his being a cross dresser is contary to your emotoinal needs? Nothing in marriage should be done without absolute mutual agreement. So what has come to head here is that he's got an emotional need that conflicts with your emotional needs. And crossdressing is very much about meeting one's emotional needs.

Filtering out the societial, cultural, and religious concepts about what a man is or isn't, what a woman is or isn't ~ we're all human beings. In part? What crossdressing is ~ is the male version of the femininist movement. Let's call it the "humanist movement" in which individuals declare, "Keep your damn labels off of me!"

I belelive this site might be a good resource to you:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/

and

http://www.divorcenet.com/considering/states/nationwide/the_walkaway_wife_syndrome

The time to divorce is when you've resolved any and all issues, and you can part ways with respect, dignity, and love. Its not done in anger, but with the love and respect that brought you together ~ its saying I love you so much, I rather see you happy with someone else than miserable with me. :love:

[Mary L]

Penny--I empathize with your efforts to determine where the boundary is between supporting your husband and supporting yourself. You did not sign on in marriage to a CDer. Despite claims that "this is who we are," you did not agree to marry and live with a CDer. While I certainly would encourage you to go slow and make no decisions that you might regret, the rules of your relationship to your husband have changed and only you can determine whether or not the current rules allow for your own emotional needs to be satisfactorily met. On the other hand, what if your husband had become physically ill instead of crossdressing? Would you abandon him then? I doubt it. You would probably support him as best you could. Somewhere there is probably a balance point that will be a compromise satisfactory to both of you. Good luck!
Mary

[kerrianna]

Wow Pennie, I can see why you're upset with him, if he's just going ahead doing stuff without including you. I don't know exactly your situation, but from what you describe it seems to me like your husband is kind of operating like he's not part of a team. I can see why you're thinking of jumping ship if it's like that.

Carol and I went through something similar, and it was because leading into my opening up of my femme expression, we had already began to malfunction as a team. For a number of reason, over a long period of time, we drifted apart, and I especially began living in my own world more and not including her. My actions last summer forced us into a very direct confrontation and re-evaluation of what we were doing...more specifically what I was doing. She basically told me to make up my mind if I wanted to stay with her. We had some very long painful late night talks, and hashed out a lot of stuff. A lot of resentment I was holding back came out, a lot of stuff she had felt for a long time came out, and although it was touch and go for awhile, we eventually came out the other side intact and better for it.

For me it meant including her and respecting her. A good example is your husband's unilateral desire to expose himself to the world. I'm not saying he shouldn't be doing that, because it may be a very important part of his journey, but he shouldn't be doing it without talking to you first and including you. I don't know if he has tried, from what you say it sounds like he hasn't really included you, just dragged you along. That won't work obviously, and if he wants to be with you he needs to know that. How you communicate that I can't say because only you know what works with you guys. But he definitely needs to be working WITH you on this. Hopefully he can articulate what this all means to him (it's really hard for us to do that when we don't know either). He could have a number of gender identity issues he hasn't dealt with before. Hopefully you two can work together on him being able to find a way to explore this. But that means TOGETHER. That means if you tell him that body-shaving is right out, then he has to respect that. Maybe you can compromise and he shaves his legs once in awhile or whatever works.

Relationships are built on give and take, and need to be fluid and dynamic to survive. They need good communication and understanding. Respect and love. In my case I shut down that other stuff because I wanted my way. It was selfish and mis-guided on my part. I'm glad both Carol and I had the determination to work through it...and I know we will need to keep mindful of that in the future too.

If your husband isn't a member here maybe he would benefit from reading some of our experiences. Maybe not. It depends on him. If you guys want to survive as a couple you do have some very hard work and difficult conversations ahead. You need to have some 'rules' or agreements you both can live with...knowing that everything changes and that keeps hope up. I know that I have more freedom and understanding with my TG issues now than I ever thought I would back in the fall. It just took awhile for Carol to trust me again and see that I would be considerate of her and that all in all I am a better person for discovering and exploring this side of me.

Good luck Pennie, I do hope you stick with us and that we can help. But your husband is the one we need to reach right now too.

[Rikkicn]

For me it meant including her and respecting her. A good example is your husband's unilateral desire to expose himself to the world. I'm not saying he shouldn't be doing that, because it may be a very important part of his journey, but he shouldn't be doing it without talking to you first and including you.

I'm confused by this. I'm not sure what you mean by path here. If has something to do with life's destiny, self discovery, life's purpose perhaps. If it's any of these or something similar then the idea needing permission seems at odds.

[kerrianna]

I'm confused by this. I'm not sure what you mean by path here. If has something to do with life's destiny, self discovery, life's purpose perhaps. If it's any of these or something similar then the idea needing permission seems at odds.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Rikki. It's not needing permission...it's respecting the fact that you are a team, and you include each other...especially on the big things. Every couple has their own way of doing things...I just know when I wasn't playing as part of a partnership team then I was given the option of carrying on by myself as my parnter DID want to still be part of the team. It wasn't that I was being denied permission...just that I was given the option of deciding for myself what was important to me. Everyone makes their own personal decisions. And like I said before, just because I made the decisions I did then doesn't mean I will tomorrow. I just know enough not to expect that I will necessarily have the company of my partner on my journey if I decide something is more important than my relationship with Carol. That's her decision she's free to make anytime too.

[danielle40I]

Penny, I believe Dana has given you some reasons to consider your own position in the matter.
I can speak from first hand experience that there is no "right or wrong" position that either you or your spouse can take. However, what can be right for him does not dictate that it be right for you.
My ex, with whom I spent ten years with, did all she could to understand me from her perspective and sense of reality. She knew of of my transgendered qualities within months of our meeting. She bought me clothes, jewelry, cosmetics,etc. Yet as I felt more confident in expressing who I was, she felt more threatened as to how she felt as a woman and a person. She did all she could to ride what was for her an emotional roller coaster.
Yet, allas, she found that she could not deal with the situation and felt compelled to ask me to leave. And I was left to deal with the rejection and abandonment that I still, at times, feel profound remorse for.
She is who and what she is, just as you are...and I am. That she could not come to acceptance of remaining with me on my journey through life was her choice. And her choice I choose to dignify and validate as her right as a human being to make. It is my choice to accept her choices as real and genuine.
There were many things left unsaid that might have helped to reconcile our differences. But she chose to leave them unsaid for her own reasons, for which I still have respect for.
Penny, you are deserving of a relationship that provides you support, nuturance and love...as does your husband. Look into your heart as you so desperately want him to look into his, and see beyond what is for what can be. Then ask yourself, how can I be the leader in this relationship, and then do all you can to ask him what he wants, what he needs in this relationship. If he is the person you have known for thirty years, have loved and cherished all that time, then you will find a person just like you...one with fears, doubts, hopes and dreams to be a better, more complete person.
Perhaps then you will be better able to answer the question of whether of not it is better to stay and be miserable or to leave and be at peace, contented and more fulfilled.

I pray that you both can be honest and respectful of one another as you resolve your differences.

Dani

[Michelia]

I cannot add to all the great advice given here except to say that for now please do not add to your burdens the doubt of whether your husband has been lying to you for 2 years or thirty. Although the ladies here are right that 98% of CDs are made early in life, there are exceptions. I am one of them. If anyone had ever told me a year ago I would be a CD'r later in life, I would have thought them utterly insane.

Michelia

[StephanieH]

:straightface: Hey Pennie, Randi here. You've gotten some good advice here, but your second post I think speaks more to the real issue you're having. By the sound of it, your husband is being unreasonable and he needs to realize that.

Being in a successful relationship with a CD person is all about respect and boundaries. That goes both ways. If he's running around the front yard dressed like Daisy Duke when you've asked him not to, I think you have every right to be upset. If he's wearing nail polish when the neighbors come over and you've asked him not to, again, you have reason to be upset. That being said, communicate with him and let him know, point blank, how serious this is. Don't hedge or beat around the issue, get it out in the open and be honest about your feelings.

All that being said, be respectful of his feelings too. As has been said before, this likely isn't something he started just two years ago. He's likely dealt with this most of his life and has only recently felt comfortable enough to tell you about it. The fact that he trusts you enough with this "dark secret" should speak quite a bit that he loves you. And if he loves you, he WILL respect your boundaries and comfort zone. And if you love him, you WILL make compromises that allow him to be a little different at times. All things in moderation.

Don't be too hasty in throwing away half your life. There can be a happy middle ground here, I pray you two can find it. :2c:

[Rikkicn]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Rikki. It's not needing permission...it's respecting the fact that you are a team, and you include each other...especially on the big things. Every couple has their own way of doing things...I just know when I wasn't playing as part of a partnership team then I was given the option of carrying on by myself as my parnter DID want to still be part of the team. It wasn't that I was being denied permission...just that I was given the option of deciding for myself what was important to me. Everyone makes their own personal decisions. And like I said before, just because I made the decisions I did then doesn't mean I will tomorrow. I just know enough not to expect that I will necessarily have the company of my partner on my journey if I decide something is more important than my relationship with Carol. That's her decision she's free to make anytime too.

Perhaps you're right and we need to agree to disagree. I guess I wasn't willing to make an accommodation to my life's dreams and needs. My own life became my first priority. That decision has been rewarded many fold.

[JC]

Penny, i am a 54 year old man that enjoys dressing in women's clothes. i have been married for 34 years. i let my wife know about my deepest secret about 6 months ago.

i let her know as i hated to keep the secret. i had tried to stop over the years and teh urge always returned. i could not stop. i know alcoholics and my daughter was into drugs. they quit... i could not - have not been able to.

society said that i was bad for dressing. i had shame. i shared with her.... i took the risk of rejection. she can still reject - but i hope not. i pray not
!

i do profess to know the situtation - i just hope that you will listen to your heart. to share your thoughts with your spouse. to try to understand. i pray fo the best ...

jc

[Catherine in Colo]

With all due respect Rikki, it sounds as your life as a woman became not only your first priority, but your ONLY priority. Unfortunately, most of us are not so lucky as to be able to disregard all other aspects of our lives to pursue a transgendered lifestyle. Many of us, Pennie - and hopefully her husband - included, have jobs, families, and even marriages to consider in addition to their desire to pursue a tg lifestyle. What is a marriage if it's not a relationship where you care enough about someone else to consider their feelings as much as your own, and sometimes even more than your own?

Just as Pennie, by being here, is trying to understand and consider her husband's feelings, he also needs to be equally considerate of hers, unless he views his marriage as you apparently did - as less important than his own desires and a one-way street.

Pennie, as others have already suggested, we cders have a tendency to open the floodgates once the door is opened. It's great that you've found this forum, and I would invite your husband to do the same. If he's not already out there on the internet in search of support, this forum can provide a great place for him to share his feelings and get support, and hopefully to gain a little better perspective about moving slowly.

Good luck,
Renee

[Mary Morgan]

Pennie, As you have discovered, there is as borad a spectrum within the CD community as there is within any community. I applaud your willingness to try to understand all of this. I have been a CD all my life and I don't understand it. My wife and I have reached a level of cooperation that works for us. I dress and she finds others things to do. she doesn't wish to see me dressed, yet she shops for women's clothing, make-up, etc with me all the time. You give a little, you get a little. My point is that she is important to me, and I therefore accommodate her restrictions. I am important to her and therefore she accommodates my need to dress. Your problem is as much about cooperation and accommodation as it is about anything. Crossdressing is the trigger, it is not the problem. I wish you the very best.

[Sheri 4242]

Pennie, As you have discovered, there is as borad a spectrum within the CD community as there is within any community. I applaud your willingness to try to understand all of this. I have been a CD all my life and I don't understand it. My wife and I have reached a level of cooperation that works for us. I dress and she finds others things to do. she doesn't wish to see me dressed, yet she shops for women's clothing, make-up, etc with me all the time. You give a little, you get a little. My point is that she is important to me, and I therefore accommodate her restrictions. I am important to her and therefore she accommodates my need to dress. Your problem is as much about cooperation and accommodation as it is about anything. Crossdressing is the trigger, it is not the problem. I wish you the very best.

Pennie,

Louise has managed to say in a few words what a number of us have written paragraph after paragraph. There are ways to work through this! That said, your husband needs to be willing to accept your limitations and give you time to grow in understanding. You can't be expected to just jump right in and say, "hey, anything you want to do with this is fine." That would defy realistic expectations in all but a very few situations! Boundaries are important -- and they can be moved and/or renegotiated as time goes by. There is a tendency by many a CD to go "full speed ahead." Tell your husband, in love, that you need time and whatever boundaries you need.

[Rikkicn]

a transgendered lifestyle.

For me, this isn't a life style, or a hobby or a way to relax and it isn't a choice unless you choose to be miserable. I have to live this life or some part of me will die. I wasn't interested in pursuing a transgendered life style, I was interested in pursuing my life. I decided that I wanted people in my life that would support and encourage me.
Your right, family makes everything more difficult. I didn't have any children and my parents had passed. My only relative, my brother is slowly warming up to the idea.
When I left my ex I crossdressed but with my new found freedom to fully express myself I wanted more than part time. I didn't want to put my self away anymore. I wanted my real clothes to be hanging in the closet and not stashed in a box in the basement. I pursued happiness with the same intensity as drowning man gasps for air.
I met a woman and we fell and love. She knows everything there is to know about me...everything. She loves my heart and has and is supporting me in every decision I make. She supports me with love and joy in her heart as does my new family of 4 brothers and in law, sisters in law and kids galore and of course her parents.
I'm just trying to say that we don't have to settle, we can have it all!

[Rikkicn]

What is a marriage if it's not a relationship where you care enough about someone else to consider their feelings as much as your own, and sometimes even more than your own?

I agree with you more than I can express, which Is why I stayed for 7 years after coming out to her. Waiting for her to read the books, go to therapy, join me at support group meetings. Asking her to go with me became harder as I was always rejected. I gave up. I was so tired of trying to win her approval. I didn't the energy to keep trying.
How much longer should I have put my needs aside? Two more years, five? maybe 10? Always hoping that one day she would learn to love all of me.

What is a marriage?
I ask my wife with tears in my eyes "How can I be more loving? How can I be more kind? This is line from Hafiz.
This is what a marriage means to me. For this woman I would give my life. She has given me so much that it is the least I can do.
Being loved for who you are and unconditionally supported feels like there is warm sunshine pouring into the damp, dark corners of your soul, warming and caressing you to life.
We all deserve this.
We all need this.

[sterling12]

Hi Pennie:

Here's another suggestion. I'm not sure where you are located but you and your spouse might investigate joining a Tri-Ess Chapter. Tri-Ess was originally set up for The CD AND HIS WIFE. Chapters have a lot of GGs who have and are experiencing the same things that you are going through. Often these Gals can show you great empathy and explain a lot about their relationships which might help.

At the two local chapters I belong to, The ladies often meet separately. They feel that it really helps the Spouse a lot and you will make a lot of friends.

As some of the good ladies have been kind enough to explain to me, what is said at their meeting is private. But, they have given me a rough idea of what is going on; sometimes they discuss something "heavy", sometimes they get very light-hearted and just have a lot of fun laughing about the whole situation. Sometimes they talk about everything but CD. Sometimes, one of The Gals just needs to "vent", and that's OK too.

I think what the both of you will find, if you join such a group, is that CD is just another "situation" in a marriage. It can be dealt with, and virtually all of the people you meet will not be "weirdo's", "crazies", or "perverts." Just couples who share something in common with you and your spouse. In fact, I can just about guarentee that you will meet people that you genuinely like.

If you need more info, please PM me when you get 10 messages posted. I'll try to answer any questions I can.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Sheri 4242]

". . . I have been married for 30 years but that's not the issue . . . I'm trying to deal with a person I have been spent half my life with, that I now don't know who he/she is.That's the issue!! The fact he shaved all his hair just shocked me. He painted his nails, toes bright red, our neighbor came over and he had no shoes on, it totally embrassed me. I have asked him to remove the polish which he still hasn't. He works in our yard with super shorts on that I hate!! Again, I have asked him not to but he stills does. I can handle change but I married a man and I want to be married to a man. I thought that by posting some of my issues I could try to understand something about it. Just because YOU decide to do something in a marriage like this doesn't mean the other person has to accept it. I might post again I'm not sure."

Pennie,

I think you are entirely within all reasonableness to ask that he not do things like parade around with nail polish on in the way you describe, especialy since that is way beyond your tolerance level. There needs to be set boundaries to help establish balance. Boundaries can always be moved "if" your comfort level changes, but this needs to be a mutual thing and not what it sounds like, which is that he is acting like it is all about him "come hell or high water" to quote an old adage.

On another point you noted: most SO's of CDers that I know who have become accepting (and even encouraging), have times when they need their husband to be their man. This aspect is, in fact, part of the balance that makes some relationships successful -- that the husband (or bf) understands that it isn't all about him, and that he comprehends that there are times when his wife needs her man. Any husband who isn't sensitive to this is, seemingly, putting thier wants and desires before that of their wife and before the health of their marriage.

Is there any possible way you could get your husband to join in on here? Now that he is acting the way he is -- and with you reaching out attempting to glean understanding -- IMO it would be very good for him to hear from his CD peers.

I hope you will keep posting -- this isn't something you should go through alone! You've got GGs and CDers here who truly understand what you are going through!

[noname]

I can handle change but I married a man and I want to be married to a man.

Perhaps some perspective. My wife is 5' 4". When I married by my wife she was 160lbs. Within a year of getting married to my wife she gained about 65 lbs. She refuses to wear makeup, and has never cut her hair and rarely styles it. She is a far cry from what I married or consider an ideal woman. The doctor said she just needed a better diet and exercise. I tried to get her to work out by working out with her, buying gym memberships, and 20 other things. She refuses to eat healthy and work out. I can try to encourage her to do the right thing, but am met with anger. So here I am at 5' 10" and 160lbs and phyically fit, and most people don't even guess we are a couple.

In short, you can't make anyone do or not do anything. Think of this, your husband probably wants to wear toenail polish bad. Odd stares or comments from people or neighbors is not enough of a deturent. So I'm guessing it's pretty important to him right now. Yes you feel humiliated. But I'm guessing the core of that is your feeling this is lowering your social status. As for the nail polish, try to see it for what it is. It's paint and nothing more.

[kittypw GG]

Rikkicn,
Honestly you are not helping poor Pennie. All of these posts with excuses for your bad behavior, who are you trying to convince that your anger is justified? Us or yourself? Seriously, holding on to all of your anger and hurt is totally not healthy. I don't think I can think of one positive thing you have said to a gg struggleing with the knowledge that her hubby is a cd. With all of your goings on Pennie has said she may not post again. Now did that help the cause?

Ok we get that you were once abandonded because of your fetishes and your crossdressing. That has got to suck when someone rejects you when you have revieled yourself to them but you got to get over it :(
When you hang on to so much anger it eats at you like cancer and alters who you are. You end up pushing everyone away and you end up very lonely.

All you have accomplished with your ramblings to Pennie's situation is to add insult to her injury. We need to enlighten and lift up partners who are dealing with this. It is a big shock to deal with after you have lived with someone for 30 years and you think that you should know them. Start your own angry thread if you need help but don't throw all of your garbage on a new person reaching out for our help. :mad: It is just not fair and personally you make me not want to accept cd'ing if you are the example of what one is. :thumbsdn:
Kitty

[MsJanessa]

I agree with you more than I can express, which Is why I stayed for 7 years after coming out to her. Waiting for her to read the books, go to therapy, join me at support group meetings. Asking her to go with me became harder as I was always rejected. I gave up. I was so tired of trying to win her approval. I didn't the energy to keep trying.
How much longer should I have put my needs aside? Two more years, five? maybe 10? Always hoping that one day she would learn to love all of me.

What is a marriage?
I ask my wife with tears in my eyes "How can I be more loving? How can I be more kind? This is line from Hafiz.
This is what a marriage means to me. For this woman I would give my life. She has given me so much that it is the least I can do.
Being loved for who you are and unconditionally supported feels like there is warm sunshine pouring into the damp, dark corners of your soul, warming and caressing you to life.
We all deserve this.
We all need this.

Actually the sad fact of the matter is that some SOs and GGs can accept a transgendered/cd spouse and some can't---that doesn't mean that the ones who can't accept it are bad people, it means that they went into a relationship expecting one thing and when it turned into something else they couldn't accept it---at least not in a 24/7 way that you really have to with a spouse. If you have an SO who does accept it, you are really lucky and if you have an SO who doesn't and has chosen to end the relationship, then you have to move on.

[Rikkicn]

Rikkicn,
Honestly you are not helping poor Pennie. All of these posts with excuses for your bad behavior, who are you trying to convince that your anger is justified? Us or yourself? Seriously, holding on to all of your anger and hurt is totally not healthy. I don't think I can think of one positive thing you have said to a gg struggleing with the knowledge that her hubby is a cd. With all of your goings on Pennie has said she may not post again. Now did that help the cause?

Ok we get that you were once abandonded because of your fetishes and your crossdressing. That has got to suck when someone rejects you when you have relieved yourself to them but you got to get over it :(
When you hang on to so much anger it eats at you like cancer and alters who you are. You end up pushing everyone away and you end up very lonely.

All you have accomplished with your ramblings to Pennie's situation is to add insult to her injury. We need to enlighten and lift up partners who are dealing with this. It is a big shock to deal with after you have lived with someone for 30 years and you think that you should know them. Start your own angry thread if you need help but don't throw all of your garbage on a new person reaching out for our help. :mad: It is just not fair and personally you make me not want to accept cd'ing if you are the example of what one is. :thumbsdn:
Kitty

I wasn't abandoned, I left her because she wouldn't try to accept who I was. It was the best most excruciating thing I have ever done. I loved her but could no longer live with her. We're good friends now and all is well. The day I told her is still in my mind and the sadness on her face will remain with me. For my own well being it was critical.
My anger is directed at those who always, without hesitation take the side of the wife or SO without giving due consideration to the crossdresser and what their lives have been like and experiences created for them. If we can't get support and understanding here...then were do we go next?
I worry about the thousands of cder's that read her post and see that happening to themselves so they don't tell their life long secret and continue to live unhappily.
I don't want or need your acceptance...I get that from my own heart, as we all can. Isn't that the best way after all..to find it within?
I'm happier than you can imagine, my life is full of friends family and love. The only sadness in my life is the way that cder's are treated and how we often hurt ourselves. Too many of us suffer deeply, from the shame and quilt of growing up different and sometimes we don't even know that is going on inside...we just feel bad.
Perhaps I'm not as articulate as needed and I wish I was a better writer. I would love to be able to express myself better but this is what I'm capable of doing for now.
I'll stop and not post anymore on this thread or others here. If anyone wants to reach me or read more of what I write then you'll find me in my profile.
My life's mission is to make it a better world for crossdressers and help them to find whatever it takes to lead a truly wonderful life.
I hold meetings for closeted cder's in my home. Next spring will be my first one day work shop on crossdressing and healing, leading to a full weekend after that. I'm doing all I can think of.
Thanks to those that took the time to read and I hope that some of you found my mad, angry ramblings worth even a little consideration.
Write if you want to chat. You now know one person that will give you unconditional support and encouragement.
Love to all

[kay2]

Dear Pennie,
Your coming to this forum shows you are a thoughtful person, and are willing to confront what is a hard issue for you. I admire that. Your feelings are yours - it really isn't important if others don't agree with them. You are who you are - it is not a flaw if you simply are not attracted to your husband when he appears more feminine. In fact, it is quite understandable.

Perhaps your husband has suffered in silence for a long time over this issue. His hiding that part of himself from you might reflect that he loved you too much to risk losing you by telling you. His "coming out" is brave, and I admire that too.

You are being fair and honest by telling your husband your needs, and he is being fair and honest when he makes his choices. It is up to each of you to decide what you can accept in the other. If that process is hard, I highly recommend involving a therapist in your process.

My best wishes to you and your husband.

[kay2]

Some of the posts in this thread strike me as very caring and insightful. I just blip over the ones where contributors are working on their own challenges.

[Dixie Darling]

Pennie,

Please have a look at the material on my web site. It may answer a lot of the questions you have as well as help you overcome some of the anxieties you are experiencing. As a suggestion, have your husband look at the material WITH you and discuss it between you as you read. There is material there which is specifically for wives/girlfriends as well as material specifically for crossdressers. Your husband may benefit a LOT from reading some of the pages since there is a lot of information about what he SHOULDN'T be doing. All the material is CLEAN so you have no need to be concerned that you would find anything that would be an embarrassment to either of you.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[yvonne10]

his crossdressing does not make him a differant person he is still the man you married and probbley still loves you as much now as he ever did

[Dasein9]

Pennie, I just want to take a moment in all the discussion to say this:

{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}

I hope this thread helps you and your husband. All the advice and personal stories may be overwhelming, so take your time. If you don't mind, I'll be holding you and your husband in the Light. (That's Quaker for praying for you, in a way without any judgement or condemnation.)

[Sheri 4242]

Rikkicn,

Honestly you (Rikkicin) are not helping poor Pennie.

All you have accomplished with your ramblings to Pennie's situation is to add insult to her injury. We need to enlighten and lift up partners who are dealing with this. It is a big shock to deal with after you have lived with someone for 30 years . . .

Kitty

Rikkicn,

While you and I have been through much of the exact same things in our pasts, given what you have described, I must agree with Kitty about this particular situation! Pennie's unhappiness is based on her husband being selfish -- selfish regarding something he has been dishonest about for most of their 30 years of marriage! Pennie came to this site (with some obvious reservations) to seek information, education, and edification. She has learned that her husband has been dishonest for most of their 30 years together, AND she is fragile because he is making independent adjustments to their partnership with little or no regard for her feelings and needs. IMHO, Pennie's husband needs to be acting with selflessness at this point in their marriage, not selfishness!!!

All this having been said, I am convinced that you obviously have a lot to contribute to the broader spectrum regarding what we are and the possibilities for our futures -- BUT, given the critical aspect of Pennie's needs, your comments, in this sole situation, were counterproductive! Instead of helping Pennie gain insight and understanding so that maybe she and her husband might be able to begin to get on the same page regarding his CDing, you came across as rather harsh -- like she needed to accept it or get out of the way (and maybe out of the marriage). Your words came across as rough, insensitive, and unyielding! Pennie's husband is on a path where his conduct is like his wife doesn't even exist!

In the main, I am convinced that instead of "geting in the face" of an obviously fragile GG, you could have, with a minimal thesis statement, used what she said as a springboard into what you wanted to say in a new thread. Pennie needs empathy and constructive help, not contention.

[Rikkicn]

Thank you for taking the time to let me know your thoughts. I've been stubborn.
I'm sorry for the distress I caused Pennie and all of you. My passion for this subject exceeded my ability to be compassionate to the change in Pennies life.
I'm sorry

[Dasein9]

Brava! It takes a brave person to say that!

[Aslan73]

The woman and gg's here are right. Take it slow, communicate your feelings and love for your husband as if your life depended on it. You are both vunerable right now and your closeness as a couple will be put to the test. I promise you, that it is all worth the effort that you both put into the "conversation" which you must have. Remember what you felt for each other when you first met, remember what you have felt for each other over the past thirty years. I think (my opinion) that you are both intelligent human beings and need to sit down and truely communicate from your hearts to each other. My thoughts and prayers for you both as you endeavor to clam your hearts and minds.:love:

[Carin's Wife GG]

of Pennie!



Louise.:love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[Joy Carter]

Penny if the marriage has a firm foundation then it can stand another brick. OK ?
BTW if he's being selfish and narcissistic then slap him a good one and set him strait.

Joy Carter :hugs:

[MsMichelle]

It's very unfortunate that your spouse is not listening to your needs Pennie. One of the early comments I read was that your husband needs to get on here himself. I like a few others, really believe that he needs some peer counselling at best. There is little doubt that his actions are extreme to say the least. Wearing nail polish 24/7 even when on toes and openly exposed is grand for the single crowd who have nobody but themselves to answer too. Perhaps it's the some of the younger and irresponsible peers that he is listening too. I very much doubt it's the peers with supportive wives.
One aspect of success with married couples I have always seen is a belief I came up with some 12 years ago. It goes like this. "Tell no one that doesn't need to know unless you have something to gain and it is neither a selfish nor narcistic rationale" Your husbands actions are most certainly well outside that realm. Perhaps your husband needs to be sat down in front of his married peers and asked the question, "Do you really want to stay in this marriage"? If the answer is yes then you really need to start paying attention to your wifes needs. For what it's worth Pennie as someone who has had a very supportive wife for getting close to 12 years now, I have to tell you your husbands actions are extreme. While I admit I have worn toe polish at times, it's usually only in the summer to wear sandals while out enfemme. I wouldn't ever dream of letting anyone see that while in drab. At best, it's never on for maybe a day or two at the most.
I really hope you can get your husband to some peer counselling with some other married TG couples. Hopefully it will smarten him up!!

Best wishes
Michelle Renee

[crusadergirl]

You got to do what you feel is right but first give him a chance. Tell him how you feel don't hide it. I'm sure you and him can work it out. We all stand together for one reason life. Slow things down and try to work on what is bothering you. Crossdressers are still men we just dress different then most.
I"m sure your a smart woman think about what your doing.
I hope i didn't say what everybody else said to you i just read 3 posts to many to read. Your marriage will work if you want it too. Never give no matter what no matter how hard life is. Thoses are the words of Nightwing.
And no i'm not crazy.