Hormones

[Nyx]

I have always wanted to be a girl myself. But I refuse to take hormones, sterility and other health risks, plus the associated cost simply make it not worth it to me. Simply put, hormones are for transexuals. If you take hormones, then it should be because you're aiming to get sex reassignment surgery. If you take hormones, you will lose the capability to have erections, lose alot of muscle and eventually become sterile. Not to mention hormones can also change your sexual orientation (which might not be a problem for everyone, but is one for me).

If all you want is breast though, then I don't think anything keeps you from simply having breast augmentation surgery (breast implants). I'm pretty sure that can be done without problems. You could contact professionals about the matter for more information. If you want even more, you can also get permanent epilation, vocal cord surgery (to get a feminine voice) or even facial feminization surgery without taking hormones... So there is always a way to do this without definitively losing *all* of your masculinity.

[Helana]

I have always wanted to be a girl myself. But I refuse to take hormones, sterility and other health risks, plus the associated cost simply make it not worth it to me. Simply put, hormones are for transexuals. If you take hormones, then it should be because you're aiming to get sex reassignment surgery. If you take hormones, you will lose the capability to have erections, lose alot of muscle and eventually become sterile. Not to mention hormones can also change your sexual orientation (which might not be a problem for everyone, but is one for me).


Hi Nyx

As a crossdresser who has taken hormones to grow B cup breasts I cannot agree with your statement. Taking hormones is not just for transsexuals, crossdressers can take them for body modification purposes ie to grow breasts. For me this is no different than going on a diet to have a slim sexy body, wearing a tight corset or having your ears pierced.

If you take hormones on low dosage or for short periods of time then the effects you describe are not pertinent. Erections return quickly after you come off hormones, I experieced no muscle loss - this is a long term effect - and I am not sterile (I had myself tested). Also I know of no scientific evidence that hormones change your sexual orientation - this is primarily a mental attitude as to whether you feel more comfortable playing the female role in sexual relationships. I am still as hetrosexual as I was before. ;)

As for the health risks - they exist but should be taken in context that hormones are a natural part of our body chemistry. Our own bodies pump out testosterone which is a more dangerous hormone than estrogen. If hormones are that dangerous then I would recommend that all men get castrated as soon as they have sired children to lower their health risks :eek:

Truth is tobacco, junk food, alcohol etc present a greater health risk than taking estrogen in correct dosages. Indeed you then suggest that Cutie consider breast implants - a procedure with obvious health risks which I consider to be well above that of estrogen.

[Nyx]

Hi Nyx
If you take hormones on low dosage or for short periods of time then the effects you describe are not pertinent. Erections return quickly after you come off hormones, I experieced no muscle loss - this is a long term effect - and I am not sterile (I had myself tested).

However, nobody can attest exactly how long it takes to become sterile, hence, there is still a risk.


Also I know of no scientific evidence that hormones change your sexual orientation - this is primarily a mental attitude as to whether you feel more comfortable playing the female role in sexual relationships. I am still as hetrosexual as I was before. ;)

Research in this area is not very active, yet, it remains true. There are alot of people who changed sexual orientation after doing hormones, and it only makes sense. Hormones have an effect on all of your body, including your brain, and they are what triggers sexual desire. I can tell you, myself, that I had no sexual desires of any kind before puberty came along. Taking hormones is just like a second puberty.


As for the health risks - they exist but should be taken in context that hormones are a natural part of our body chemistry. Our own bodies pump out testosterone which is a more dangerous hormone than estrogen. If hormones are that dangerous then I would recommend that all men get castrated as soon as they have sired children to lower their health risks :eek:

The hormones we naturally produce are a natural part of our body chemistry. What you buy in a jar is not, and one should be cautious about them.


Truth is tobacco, junk food, alcohol etc present a greater health risk than taking estrogen in correct dosages. Indeed you then suggest that Cutie consider breast implants - a procedure with obvious health risks which I consider to be well above that of estrogen.

Breast implants have no chance of rendering you sterile, and the complications after surgery are extremely rare.

Anyhow. You mentioned "proper dosages" many times. Could you provide us with more information? Did you consult someone before taking hormones? Did that person provide you guarantees you would not become sterile? How long did you take them? How effective were they?

[Helana]

However, nobody can attest exactly how long it takes to become sterile, hence, there is still a risk. Quite correct, just as nobody can attest how many Big Macs will give you a heart attack. The risk of sterility occurs around 12 months. If you take hormones for just 1 month then you can be reasonably confident that you will not be sterile. ;) You can take a sperm count to find out the health of your productive system before making a decision.


Research in this area is not very active, yet, it remains true. There are alot of people who changed sexual orientation after doing hormones, and it only makes sense. Hormones have an effect on all of your body, including your brain, and they are what triggers sexual desire. I can tell you, myself, that I had no sexual desires of any kind before puberty came along. Taking hormones is just like a second puberty.
I have read extensively and have never come across any such information. Please could you point out where you read this. When hormones are taken at the same time as a TS going full time/taking SRS it is not possible to distinguish whether hormones produced any change in sexual orientation or if it was a mental switch. There are also many examples of post op TS who never had any change in sexual orientation despite taking hormones for years and physically becoming a woman.
As for hormones producing sexual desire - your body has been producing hormones right throughout your childhood, it is the raised hormonal levels that produces puberty. As for myself, taking hormones did not affect my sexual desire as I continued making love to my girlfriend while on hormones.
Do you believe that short term usage of hormones will make you homosexual?



The hormones we naturally produce are a natural part of our body chemistry. What you buy in a jar is not, and one should be cautious about them..
There is no evidence that our bodies can detect the difference between natural and artificial hormones - they are chemically the same and produce identical results. The difference is in how the body receives the hormone - it is naturally produced 24/7 in small amounts thus preferably you should use a patch to mimick the slow release instead of taking pills which delivers the hormone in a large rush.


Breast implants have no chance of rendering you sterile, and the complications after surgery are extremely rare. Sorry quite untrue, complications after surgery are common, many women experience painful contractures and futhermore studies show that 80% of implants burst within 10 years which means constant surgery is required throughout a person's lifetime to replace burst implants. Women often end up getting them removed permanently because of the problems they create. Each surgery procedure presents risks in itself.


Anyhow. You mentioned "proper dosages" many times. Could you provide us with more information? Did you consult someone before taking hormones? Did that person provide you guarantees you would not become sterile? How long did you take them? How effective were they?
There is extensive information on hormone use on the internet, I am happy to share my programme on a one-to-one basis. There are no guarantees in life except death, everything else is a probability. Does anyone guarantee that you will not die of a heart attack after taking your first Big Mac?

If you have done your research properly then you will be aware of the risks and can arrange your programme accordingly so that you can be 99% sure that you will not become sterile.

[Nyx]

Quite correct, just as nobody can attest how many Big Macs will give you a heart attack. The risk of sterility occurs around 12 months. If you take hormones for just 1 month then you can be reasonably confident that you will not be sterile. ;) You can take a sperm count to find out the health of your productive system before making a decision.

Taking hormones for 1 month won't give you breast either now, will it? (would they even have any noticeable effect?). Do you have links for the information about the risk being only after 12 months? I'd like to see facts.


I have read extensively and have never come across any such information. Please could you point out where you read this. When hormones are taken at the same time as a TS going full time/taking SRS it is not possible to distinguish whether hormones produced any change in sexual orientation or if it was a mental switch. There are also many examples of post op TS who never had any change in sexual orientation despite taking hormones for years and physically becoming a woman.
As for hormones producing sexual desire - your body has been producing hormones right throughout your childhood, it is the raised hormonal levels that produces puberty. As for myself, taking hormones did not affect my sexual desire as I continued making love to my girlfriend while on hormones.
Do you believe that short term usage of hormones will make you homosexual?

The information comes from a TV show dedicated to transexuals and hormone therapy. Most transexuals (M2F and F2M) have said having changed sexual orientation. And no, it was not a "mental switch", as no such thing really exists. Transexuals already identify themselves as women before surgery (and hence have no reason to refrain themselves from being attracted to men). There is no such thing as deciding to change sexual orientation. I have also spoken to transexuals myself, and they told me the same. Plus it just makes sense for hormones to regulate sexual attraction. Anyhow, believe what you want, I will believe logic. Like I said, sexual attraction comes at puberty, it is a secondary sexual characteristic, and hormone replacement therapy is just like a second puberty.

I'm not saying *it will* change your sexual orientation, but *it can* happen and has a reasonably high probability of doing so. Of course some secondary characteristics do not vaporize when you take female hormones, and the effect might be slightly different on everyone. However, I don't care if some psychologists like to deny the facts because they don't fit so well in their trendy view of gender-related issues. Taking female hormones *can* change your sexual orientation. If it doesn't it may at least severely inhibit your sexual desires, which could also be a problem.


There is no evidence that our bodies can detect the difference between natural and artificial hormones - they are chemically the same and produce identical results. The difference is in how the body receives the hormone - it is naturally produced 24/7 in small amounts thus preferably you should use a patch to mimick the slow release instead of taking pills which delivers the hormone in a large rush.

Synthetic hormones are sometimes not the same and produce various side effects. The important factors here is mostly the dosage, and the interruption of the treatment, either by mistake or due to external issues.


There is extensive information on hormone use on the internet, I am happy to share my programme on a one-to-one basis. There are no guarantees in life except death, everything else is a probability. Does anyone guarantee that you will not die of a heart attack after taking your first Big Mac?

Hormones are medication, not fast food. This is a *very* bad comparison. I know some people like to experiment with their bodies without caring about the consequences, but we are no longer in the 70s and not everyone is like that. Taking hormones is an important decision in someone's life and all risks should be considered seriously before proceeding.


If you have done your research properly then you will be aware of the risks and can arrange your programme accordingly so that you can be 99% sure that you will not become sterile.

You're the one that hasn't done research properly. If you search on google for "Hormone replacement therapy risks", you will find tons of articles that will tell you HRT is far from being riskless.

By the way, you failed to answer all of my earlier questions, so I will repeat them again:

Could you provide us with more information? Did you consult someone before taking hormones? Did that person provide you guarantees you would not become sterile? How long did you take them? How effective were they?

[Helana]

Taking hormones for 1 month won't give you breast either (would they even have any noticeable effect?). Do you have links for the information about the 12 months? That was not the point, you were saying that hormones will make you sterile and then were asking for guarantees, I was only putting your statements into context.



The information comes from a TV show dedicated to transexuals and hormone therapy. Most transexuals (M2F and F2M) have said having changed sexual orientation. And no, it was not a "mental switch", as no such thing really exists. I have also spoken to transexuals myself, and they told me the same. Plus it just makes sense for hormones to regulate sexual attraction. Anyhow, believe what you want, I will believe logic. There is no such thing as a mental switch???? Some crossdressers have a mental switch to bi-sexuality without having a whiff of estrogen. If you are a TS, you believe that you are/wish to become a girl and thus you will orientate yourself to be attracted to guys - just as I become bi-curious when en femme. And what about the TS who dont switch sexual orientation - where is your logic there? Nor does this have anything to do with a crossdresser who wishes to grow small breasts.




Synthetic hormones are sometimes not the same and produce various side effects. The important factors here is mostly the dosage, and the interruption of the treatment, either by mistake or due to external issues.
There are many important factors to consider but claiming that synthetic hormones were bad for you as against natural hormones is again a generalisation - natural hormones do lots of bad things to your body too.



Hormones are medication, not fast food. This is a *very* bad comparison. I know some people like to experiment with their bodies without caring about the consequences, but not everyone is like that. Hormones are not medication, they are biological instructions for your body and fast food is an excellent comparison as it does more harm to your body through fatty deposits in your arteries than correct doasges of estrogen which tells the body where to store fat. I reject any notion that I have "experimented" with my body without caring for the consequences - I researched the issue for months and cared very much about the consequences. I was in regular touch with a post op TS who gave me more detailed knowledge beyond that I had already gathered.


Prove it. I already did.


Nyx - I have no wish to carry on this discussion so this will be my last post on this thread. I corrected your original post as it gave Cutie poor feedback on her question about growing small breasts. Your statements were sweeping generalizations and were not put into context. Cutie was not asking about a long term hormonal campaign undertaken by TS. A short campaign will give her the breasts she desires without infertility, without losing her muscles, without transforming her into a homosexual and without the dangers of your alternative suggestion of breast implants.

It is up to each individual to decide what is their level of risk aversion. I am fully satisfied that the risks of a short hormonal campaign are very small for most individuals and were certainly more than acceptable for myself. But then I also enjoy Big Macs too so I guess I am just a risk taker. ;)

[Nyx]

That was not the point, you were saying that hormones will make you sterile and then were asking for guarantees, I was only putting your statements into context.

You providing false information is the point. You were not putting anything into context. I said hormones might make you sterile, and that there are no guarantees, that is the point.


There is no such thing as a mental switch???? Some crossdressers have a mental switch to bi-sexuality without having a whiff of estrogen.

Thats because many transvestites get obsessed to experiment everything a girl could experiment. Hence they fantasize about being penetrated, since women do. Those are the same kind of people that use female sanitary equipment even though they have no real use for it. No, its not an actual switch. I could go on and on about explaining this, but that would be another thread.


If you are a TS, you believe that you are/wish to become a girl and thus you will orientate yourself to be attracted to guys

If you are a TS, you are already convinced that you are a girl.


And what about the TS who dont switch sexual orientation - where is your logic there?

Some transexuals are already attracted to men. Some may simply have their attraction to females too deeply imprinted in their brain. Like I said, hormones can't reverse everything for everyone. They won't make your square jaw disappear.


There are many important factors to consider but claiming that synthetic hormones were bad for you as against natural hormones is again a generalisation - natural hormones do lots of bad things to your body too.

I never said the opposite. But here we are talking about artificially supplying hormones.


Hormones are not medication, they are biological instructions for your body and fast food is an excellent comparison as it does more harm to your body through fatty deposits in your arteries than correct doasges of estrogen which tells the body where to store fat.

Hormones *are* medication in the context where you get them in the form of pills and you are required to buy them in jars. Its not called Hormone Replacement *Therapy* for no reason.


I reject any notion that I have "experimented" with my body without caring for the consequences - I researched the issue for months and cared very much about the consequences. I was in regular touch with a post op TS who gave me more detailed knowledge beyond that I had already gathered.

You still shouldn't be trying to push people to adhere to your own conclusions without doing their own research first.


Nyx - I have no wish to carry on this discussion so this will be my last post on this thread. I corrected your original post as it gave Cutie poor feedback on her question about growing small breasts. Your statements were sweeping generalizations and were not put into context. Cutie was not asking about a long term hormonal campaign undertaken by TS. A short campaign will give her the breasts she desires without infertility, without losing her muscles, without transforming her into a homosexual and without the dangers of your alternative suggestion of breast implants.

Can you guarantee any of that? No? Too bad. The risks are there and should be considered. What I would advise Cutie to do is to consult an actual specialist.


It is up to each individual to decide what is their level of risk aversion. I am fully satisfied that the risks of a short hormonal campaign are very small for most individuals and were certainly more than acceptable for myself. But then I also enjoy Big Macs too so I guess I am just a risk taker. ;)

Too bad you didn't actually tell us more details about your own experience as it could have been useful.

[LindaTS]

After reading the first part of all this I was going to write about a lot information on hormones but have since decided not to get in the middle of this. It's almost as you two girls are actully having an argument about it. I think both of you have some valid points and I agree that hormones can be dangerous. That's the big reason not to try it on your own and not having a doctor involved. I consider myself to be a TS. I have a serious heart condition so hormones are out of the question for me; that's why I'm using herbal products. And yes, they are working for me but very slowly. But in a nutshell, I'd start hormones immediately if I could. Nuff said?

[sidney_girl]

I personally am not willing to take the risks of hormone therapy, but would be interested in herbal products. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Which herbs? Where are they available? etc.

[LindaTS]

A good place to start is www.myevanesce.com They sell herbal products and have information about them. Good luck.

[sidney_girl]

A good place to start is www.myevanesce.com They sell herbal products and have information about them. Good luck.

This looks promising. Thanks for the tip.

[Deborah757]

If you want to try herbals, instead of buying a brand name you can buy plain black cohosh (estrogenic effect) in nearly any drug store for about a quarter the price. They will have an effect over time. I can't compare them to evanesce since I have never tried it, but the main ingredient is the same. You could also add wild yam (like progesterone) or VITEX (anti-androgen) if you want. You can get these in GNC in the US.

If you use black cohosh and take too much it will cause severe headaches (like migranes). When I used it I settled at about 6x500mg pills a day. Note that I am not a doctor and have no qualification whatsoever to recommend this amount. It is just what worked for me.

[sidney_girl]

Thanks, Deborah! I'll head over to my local GNC during my lunch break today. Ordering by mail has been a problem for me, as my wife always wants to know what's in the package. And having stuff sent to an alternate address raises a red flag with some overly-cautious merchants. So shopping at my local mall seems like the way to go. Not to mention the price.

[crispy]

why do people assume that relatively large doses of 'herbals' are less risky than tiny doses of synthetic hormone?

from my research, I reckon that the risk of ill-effects from taking herbals over a long period is much greater than the risk from a tiny dose of estrogen, taken over the much shorter period that is usually necessary.

I have also read that herbals only encourage the fatty tissue to develop (in the breast area) whilst I know from personal experience that a short course of estrogen only produced mammary gland tissue, with no evidence of fatty tissue.

I strongly suggest that anyone who is seriously interested in any of these options should go to the websites I have often mentioned before. Read these posts on the transsexual section of this forum.

Maybe the moderator will move this thread to that section, where it belongs.

[johnnel_crossdresser]

i really admire crossdressers that looks like a girl because of their body and their face, and apparently, that is because they are taking female hormones for them to look good as they are and they serve as my inspiration for me to also try those methods. However, there are heresays and testimonials from gayfriends that taking hormonal pills have side effects like impotency, brain damage and the worst of all it can also result to death but the fact that pills will help get rid of bulky muscles it urges me to try some. As for now im still hesitant and confused because of different opinions of people, considering that all gays almost all gays here in the philippines crossdresses and taking pills for them to look like girls and i dnt want to be left behind...

I need some advice :)

[Helana]

why do people assume that relatively large doses of 'herbals' are less risky than tiny doses of synthetic hormone?

from my research, I reckon that the risk of ill-effects from taking herbals over a long period is much greater than the risk from a tiny dose of estrogen, taken over the much shorter period that is usually necessary.

I have also read that herbals only encourage the fatty tissue to develop (in the breast area) whilst I know from personal experience that a short course of estrogen only produced mammary gland tissue, with no evidence of fatty tissue.



Have to agree with you Crispy. People seem to believe the word herbal means healthy and safe. Only a small proportion of the herbal product are chemical estrogen mimickers - photoestrogens, mostly they contain a recipe of other chemical compounds which can have unpleasant side effects. The only reason herbal remedies appear safe is because the quantity of photoestrogens is small and has a limited result on the body.

Exactly the same "safe" effect can be had by simply breaking up a 2mg estrogen pill into 10 tiny pieces and taking one little piece instead of a 500mg herbal pill.

I agree that a short course of estrogen is probably much safer than a long term course of herbals if the objective is to simply develop a little breast tissue or sensitize the nipples.

I realize that getting herbals is more convenient than getting mail order hormones for most people but dont be fooled by the idea that herbal products are safe.

[Danielle1960]

I use them but only after numerous weeks of research. So much mis information about them is out there ranging from it's a miracle to it's garbage. I discovered for me that the best was to buy a product from the local Eckerd pharmacey which contained a good range of herbs based on the research. It works well and I haven't had any negative side effects. I'm planning on reducing the amounts taken after my one year point and do some reassesing but so far I've been pleased. At $14 per bottle (one month supply) I think it has been a real benefit. As far as hormones they obviously work, but I wanted slower progress. If I continue on may be it will be hormones but the herbal stuff works, just don't abuse the dosages.
:)
Danielle

[Helana]

i really admire crossdressers that looks like a girl because of their body and their face, and apparently, that is because they are taking female hormones for them to look good as they are and they serve as my inspiration for me to also try those methods. However, there are heresays and testimonials from gayfriends that taking hormonal pills have side effects like impotency, brain damage and the worst of all it can also result to death but the fact that pills will help get rid of bulky muscles it urges me to try some. As for now im still hesitant and confused because of different opinions of people, considering that all gays almost all gays here in the philippines crossdresses and taking pills for them to look like girls and i dnt want to be left behind...

I need some advice :)

Johnnel

You should not consider using hormones because your gay friends do so, that is the wrong reason. Only take hormones if you feel that is really what you are and what you want to be for the rest of your life. I know that sexuality and gender are mixed together in the Philippines so you grew up with effeminate role models but you should ask yourself if that is really what being gay is all about. Look at gays in the West and you will see that most are ordinary guys who have no interest in feminizing themselves, after all they are into masculinity not femininity.

I am saying these things to you because I know the social pressures you are under to conform to the girly image that Filipino gays aspire to. But you must be realistic and consider your future - how many feminized gays have a happy life, how many find good jobs and long lasting, loving relationships? Or will being a femininzed gay mean you will spend the rest of your life on the edge of society and be abused? And dont fantasize about a rich foreigner taking you away and making you his "wife" and living happily ever after. Trust me, life does not work that way.

At your young age you have no reason to rush into such decisions, but never choose to take hormones just to follow your friends. You must thoroughly research the subject on the internet. Never listen to what your friends say about hormones as 99% of street advice is wrong.

If you want to bid your time than take a androgen blocker to prevent any further masculizing effects. Go to your nearest Mercury drug store and ask for Spironolactone - 100mg a day will block your testosterone without exposing yourself to the risks of hormones.

As for using hormones to get rid of muscle - this is a long term effect after years of use by which time you will be irreversably feminized and impotent. Is this what you want? Going on a controlled diet and using Spironolactone is a better alternative.