dating

[DeeGirl]

Hi all I think I have seen a few posts on this but wanted to post my own situation/question.

Here's my story - Married my high School sweetheart and we were married 14 years. The marriage broke apart last year and we are now seperated pending the divorce to be finalized. I have never dated and only been with her.

Now she has moved on and is dating regularly.

Now my hairdresser is a girl i went to high school with as well and I have known her a long time.

She knew I was getting divorced and asked if I was seeing anyone. I told her no not yet and asked why? She said she has a freind she would like to instroduce me too - 2 bad marriages for her and she would really like to meet a nice guy. I told her I wasnt quite ready to date and would get back to her.

Now how have some of you delt with dating and the CD situation? Hide it and wait to see if it becomes serious? Come right out and let her know?
Dont date at all...?

Looking for some advice.

Thank you

Dee

[soccervixen]

I haven't been in your situation, so my advice isn't from experience.

But I would be honest about your CD'ing as soon as you can. Don't let it go too long. She needs to know about you and what you do.

[Leah B]

Tell her early, but not too early. The goal is to have her interested enough that she can't dismiss you without some sense of loss, but not so attached that she feels like you've been hiding it or lying about it. I'd say third date at the earliest here, and at the latest, the point where you might call her "girlfriend".

The alternative is to be super open about it and drop the ones who get weird about it. Here, you wouldn't take the "I have something to tell you approach" so much as you'd make it obvious that you're a CD. Like commenting on your wardrobe, or wearing femme items on dates. You'll scare a lot of girls off this way, but the ones that stay are golden. Do this one if you're A: Not shy, and B: can land a lot of dates.

[Eva Diva]

I'm inclined to say that you're just getting divorced, so just date for fun - and don't tell her. On the other hand, after a certain age, women look at every man as possible marriage material about five seconds after they meet him. You might tell her that you just want to socialize and you're not looking for a long term relationship until you get through the whole divorce experience. That way it takes pressure off, and there's no need to tell her every deep dark secret. She either goes for it or not.

[Glenda]

Does your hairdresser know you crossdress? If so, put your fears away. If she wants to introduce you she must feel that you would be good for each other. If not, well, it depends on what you want. First, you don't have to date just one person. It is a date, not a life commitment. Second, is it important for you to find that one person who will be your soul mate for life? You may date for a while and determine you aren't really right for each other or you may decide you want to spend your life with her. If you do, do you want to start off in the closet and find that she won't accept you? How important is it to you? Why hide?

[charlie-50]

ive been devorced 14 plus years im still wrestling that question. boy wouldnt it be great if we could all meet a person that you could totaly open up to about all things including cding. but im afraid things dont work that way in a perfect world. sorry i couldnt help...cp...:love:

[DeeGirl]

Hairdresser does not know - the only ones who know are the Ex and one of her close friends. And when the freind was told was like no way that is so cool! we should take him out sometime! Not what the Ex wanted to hear...

So still in the closet but there are 2 things I would like to do now that am I am out on my own with little or no restrictions.

1. Take the CDing to the next level and go out dressed.
2. Start dating - already tired of doing everything alone...

Thank you for your advice I appreciate all your thoughts.

Dee

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Dee,

Every situation is different, you know your self an if you are going to dress . Well I say that from my own experiance, I let the women I am with right away know that I dress. I don't mean Hi I am a cross dresser. You will know the right moment. I have let the women I know that I dress when I see that we are heading to the bed room. It is very embarsing if you are make out an the cloths come off an there you are in panties and a bra. Realy in your talking an dinner, show, if you realy like her be honest. I have told 6 different women that I like to dress an its not that big of a deal with them. I am now with a wondreful women we just had our 1 yr together I told her the very first night we went out, her 1st question was what size I wear 16 I said, she said great we are the same size. She now wears more of my cloth then I of hers, I have better fashion seans. You will save a lot of heart ack if you are honest up front. I guess you don't want to stop dressing so go for it plus you will save a lot of money and pretty cloths cost. Good luck

Josephine

[MsJanessa]

probably wouldn't tell her on the first date---unless of course you dress enfemme to meet her--lol --but certainly if it looks like the relationship is turning serious then I would talk to her about it---if she likes you she probably will react ok---although she might not want to become any more involved --but on the other hand she may tell you that it really doesn't bother her---even if she tells you that, you should go slowly with the CDing rather than let it dominate the relationship---make her comfortable knowing you as a stable well rounded individual---then gradually intoduce her to your femme self---Her level of accpetance may vary---some women will really embrace it, others are just ok with it and still others want to simply ignore it--they are ok with you doing it by yourself but don't want to share it.---hopefully your prospective date will embrace it. Good luck

[kaitlin]

Hi DeeGirl, I have been told that I am way too "brutely honest" I would get out and start meeting people, just to get your feet wet, so to speak. And then start dating. It's a hard change from marriage to single life, been there - done that. And as soon as you find someone who you like, tell her about your CD life. If she is cool with it, great. If not then you won't be wasteing your time with someone who you can not be yourself with. This may sound a little harsh but if you are denied the chance to be your true self, and don't make yourself happy, then there is no way you will ever be happy with someone else. Kaitlin

[Leah B]

Whatever you do, just don't leave it unmentioned for years.

[Kerry Owens]

If you start feeling serious, tell her then...honesty first and give her time to learn and understand.

[leftyblueeyes]

Hi Dee,

I went through a divorce last year as well and it has been nine months since we initially separated, four months since it was final. I wrestled with this question big time and still have a lot of fear over the future. I started dating about a month ago but it was with the understanding that, even apart from my cding and identity questions, I still wasn't ready for anything serious. I just went at it from a perspective of having fun. I met a girl and new a bit about her before I asked her out. I had a general sense that she was pretty open minded. We went out on one date and it was fabulous. Okay, so it wasn't serious yet but we had a good enough time that I anticipated there being at least several more. So I talked to her on the phone the next day and told her about Cd. I also made sure to tell her I shaved my legs (yes, I was hoping to get laid and I didn't want that to be surprise at such a sensitive moment). She had lots of questions but was cool with it all. We haven't talked about it since but its complicated for other reasons (number one being that I am moving across the country in a few months to Colorado). The point of all of that though is that I could tell at some point early on that I could tell her with reasonable certainty that she wouldn't freak out on me. You are likely to have that sense of things as well when the time is right. If there won't ever be a time when it is okay with her, then you will likely know that too.

She isn't the first woman I have met and wondered about dating though. I am well aware that I could get attached very easily right now because I am still grieving over my ex and I want so badly to be close to someone. In the recent past, it would also have been easy for me to deny what I need from cding if I felt I was "falling in love" with someone. I mean, I could have easil overlooked any awareness that they couldn't value this side of me as long as everything else was what I thought I wanted. Its real easy to turn a blind eye to the negatives in a relationship if their is enough perceived positive. So, I suggest making a commitment to yourself to tell early on (as I am sure you already are aware of).

My counselor reminded me one time that we all have secrets. Most of us do not reveal everything about ourselves when we first get to know someone. CDing might seem in your head (as it did mine) to be much bigger or scarier than the secrets other people have, but usually their secrets are pretty big in their heads as well. You share yourself when you are ready, just as everyone else does.

I can also tell you that there are plenty of women out there that would be okay with it. I have at least seven female friends who not only are okay with it (three have or want to help me with makeup and dressing.) but would embrace it being a part of the relationship if they were in love with me. There would be boundaries for pretty much anyone and most women still want to have their man, but a certain degree of dressing will be okay with plenty of women. Also, my counselor reminded me that we cross people off our list of marriage/serious relationship material for thousands of reasons (it could be for example that they drink Merlot and not Pinot:nerd:). Crossdressing is just one of many reasons why someone might not want to be with you, but there are just as many reasons why you might not want to be with someone. It doesn't mean you judge it as bad, only that you don't want to be their partner.

I am glad you asked the question. Much of what I have said is just as much for me as it is for you. Its helping me get clearer myself.

[StephanieH]

:2c:For what it's worth, go out on the date and see if you like her and if she likes you. If you find that there is some attraction between you two and you'd like to start dating seriously, then yes, you should tell her about your little peculiarity. This isn't something for first date conversation, however.

The early dates are true "get to know the person" dates, but remember, everybody puts their absolute best face on during those dates, so in reality, they're probably the most "fake" so-to-speak. Not everything comes out in those first few dates. If she doesn't like to shave her armpits, or has a son in prison, or has been in prison, or recently went through rehab, or is in a witness relocation program, she's probably not going to tell you any of that right away. The same is true of CD'ing. Once you get to know her a little better, then introduce the subject, but definitely introduce it before you get into a heavily committed relationship. If you go into something like this without baggage, you'll have a lot more fun and a lot more chance of success I think.

For now, make the call, take her out for pizza, go to the movies, whatever. See how it goes. Remember, you can't go swimming unless you choose to get in the water, and no matter what happens, you're gonna' get wet.
:bringiton::bringiton:
I have no idea what that last part meant, I 'spose that was the dumb blonde coming out in me! :tongueout

[DeeGirl]

Thanks so much everyone for your comments/advice. I really appreciate it, I really have no one to discuss these issues/questions with.

I will see my hairdresser again the first week of June and I know she will ask if I want her freinds number.
I will probably decline. Probably best if I dont date or get involved with anyone right now maybe someday...

Thanks again,

Dee

[Leah B]

Really, the first date is just about getting more comfortable with someone. I used to hear the advice that a movie is a bad first date, because you can't talk or get to know eachother, but that's bad advice. A movie's a good first date because there's little obligation and the focus is on something else. Afterward, you can say you've been around a person enough so that it's at least not awkward.

[paulaN]

I live in a very small town. If I was dating a girl in town I would not tell her until it got very serious. If lived in a city that would be a hole different story. be careful what and when you tell someone something so personal. wow that was a mouth full.

[Leah B]

Good point, Paula. S'pose smaller communities raise different issues.

[michelleupnorth]

I usually tell them if I feel that there is some attraction and I would like to pursue it futher. I don't tell them right off the start but I will tell them about on the 3rd date and before any sex is involved. I have had no negative reactions yet. I'm sure that someday someone may fly off the handle but for me it means no love lost.

[cindychan]

Being in the same near situation as you I really understand what your going through. I try and let the person know within the 3rd date. MOst girls don't like suprises, so be honest early.:hugs:

[stellatoo]

Hi Deegirl,

I've been there in the past and always told the ladies early on, but not too early!
Most have been OK, one just cut me dead and stopped all contact with me. But that was OK too she wasn't the one.

Good look with your dating, remember its all about having fun, getting to learn about each other and yourself as well.


Stella

[RachelDenise]

It's a small world. The hairdresser will know all if you tell her girlfriend, so be prepared. The 2 choices are be upfront right fronm the beginning (saves a lot of time and removes those who freak out about CD and really puts you "out there") or wait until it gets serious or moving in that direction (a more conservative option). Good luck with whatever you choose once you start to date.

[Dixie]

Be up front and honest, it may take awile to find "the one", but it will be a better fit when you do.
:hugs: Dixie

[Sheri 4242]

"I went through a divorce last year . . . (and) I wrestled with this question big time and still have a lot of fear over the future."

"My counselor reminded me one time that we all have secrets. Most of us do not reveal everything about ourselves . . ."

"I can also tell you that there are plenty of women out there that would be okay with it."

Hi, Dee! I hope you won't think this too long, but I think there may be some help in "my story." I've never fully shared all of this with the forum, so maybe it will help me telling it all, as well as helping you! It is often crucially important to be revealing in a safe environment. (In fact, isn't that part of the essential elements of marriage -- a safe environ for both patners to be themselves and to support one another?!!!!)

Leftyblueeyes is right on several things she says. We do, indeed, all have secrets. (There's an apropos Billy Joel song about a person's different faces that they keep hidden, revealing them only at certain times.) IF, though, you are to build a strong and enduring relationship with someone -- and the stories of so many on this forum bear testimony to this -- your spouse should be your soulmate -- the one who knows you best and you them.

There are also many GGs who wouldn't have a problem with being with a CDer -- but they need to know at a certain point before marriage and the choice to be involved with a CDer should ultimately be their's. Conversely, you have (as I did) an opportunity to find someone who will be supportive and encouraging so that this crucially important side of what you are can be freely expressed during your life, even if only at home (boundaries are a different topic).

My marriage is the second marriage for both my wife and me. Our histories are identical: first marriages were for 21 years each (after several years of being in a commited relationship with our ex'es prior to marriage); we both thought our marriages were forever (silly us), but found our world's crashing down all around us when we caught our ex'es commiting adultery (not with each other -- we lived in different cities). Not only were both of our ex'es adulterous, we both learned that they both had been adulterous many, many times with many, many different people. We both feel that adultery is an extreme and deeply personal betrayal -- and that it is a deal-breaker, especially if the adulterous partner is unrepentant.

CDing had nothing to do with my divorce. I didn't tell my first wife when we were dating -- and from some carefully scripted probing questions, I knew she would never tolerate it. So, I determined to keep it to myself, only dressing when on business trips. I lived with the knowledge that this was wrong. I was not able to live my life expressing a major part of who I was, and I had been dishonest by not telling her before marriage and letting her make her own decisions, letting the chips fall where they may. Divorcing my first wife at least gave me the chance to be honest and upfront from the beginning if there was to be another marriage, but I was determined it would be better to stay single than to be in a marriage where there is such a major deception going on as to who I really was.

My wife really didn't know a thing about CDing when we met -- the only exposure she had to it was comedic (on tv or in movies). I am certain that she would tell you that, if eleven years ago you had told her that she would marry someone who wore bras and panties, skirts and blouses, thigh hi's and high heels, and who felt from their very earliest of memories that part of their very being was femme -- well, if you had told her that she'd marry a man who did this and felt like that, when we were dating, that such was absolutely a crazy thing to even entertain.

I was absolutely determined, though, that if I got involved with someone AND if I saw it was heading towards something serious, that I would tell. regardless the consequences!!! I feel I have a right to live my life as who I am, and that my wife had a right to know before commiting so that she can live her life as who she is!!!

I cannot tell you that there is a specific point in time to reveal this when you are dating. Every situation is different. But, I do know this, you owe it to yourself and your potential future spouse to tell it when you see things are heading in a serious direction!!!

When I saw we were getting "marriage serious," I knew the time had come. It is instinct as to when you tell. As we lived two hours apart and only spent weekends together, we did a lot of emailing during the week. So, one day -- when I knew for certain we were heading down that serious path (we were early on that path, but definitely on it) -- I emailed her and told her that I liked nothing better than feeling "silky against silky." She asked what I meant, so I emailed back that it would, IMO, feel great if we both wore thigh's and nightgowns to bed. TIME STOOD STILL!!! Five minutes seemed like five years!!! Then she emailed me back and said well she guessed we could try that -- it might feel good. WHEW!!!!!!!

That weekend we went shopping at the mall and bought matching nightgowns, panties, and thigh hi's. I'm sure she was feeling a bit confused and convoluted at that point. I then said it might be fun to get matching MMFMP high heels. She went along with that, too. Later, we went to a nice dinner, then to a hotel suite I had prepared with chilled wine, flowers, soft music playing, candles. We changed in separate rooms, then I walked in to let her see. TIME STOOD STILL, AGAIN!!! One minute seemed like ten years this time -- and talk about heart palpitations!!!!!!!

Then she said, "You know, I don't know what this is about, but I can tell you this much -- it takes a real man to dress like that in front of another and to be so revealing and vunerable." I ABSOLUTELY MELTED!!!

We had a great night -- followed by several days, weeks, and months of talks about what mtf heterosexual CDing was all about. She quickly realized that many of the qualities she was falling deeply in love with were from my femme side. I proposed a few weeks later, and we have been very happily married going on ten years now. (BTW: her main initial questions dealt with was I bi or TS. She relaxed when I said no to both.)

A few months ago, knowing I had always wanted to officially wear a Wedding Gown and have a ceremony where I was the bride and my femme self commited all of herself to my wife, my wife suggested (she brought it up!) we should do it in Vegas. In fact, we were hoping to do this with Carin and Louise but our schedules don't mesh.

At any rate, listen to your inner voice if you find yourself falling in love. There will come a point where you'll know it is time to tell; if she decides if she can accept and support it, that's great. If she can't, that's okay, too -- keep looking!!!

[Alicia_lynn419]

Wow! This is a GREAT thread! Lots of great, useful information and input here... I'm in the same boat.. been divorced nearly 2 years and trying to start dating again... Have had several dates, but nothing that has compelled me to want to share with anyone. About 3 weeks ago, I met someone on line, and we've been writing/IMing a lot. We've spent a lot of time discussing our experiences, ideas on relationships, some very personal experiences, etc... and so far it seems like we share many things in common.. She is a very open minded lady... she comes across as a nice girl with a naughty side... I like that, In the beginning I thought she and I would just be casual chat buddies, but now it seems like there is potential for something more. I'm cautious not to project too much at this time - we still have not even met face to face, but I hope that changes by this weekend.

Prior to this thread, as I discussed with my therapist last week, I had decided that when the time came that i was getting serious with someone, i would tell them about Allie... better to tell early on and lose little, than to wait and lose a huge emotional investment. I've talked with my therapist a lot about this lately, as it is such a common theme here. Between therapy and this board, I am doing better at grappling with this question... not that it will be easy when the time comes, but at least now I know what would be right by me... I spent so many years in the closet growing up, and then was almost pushed back in during my marriage (I told my ex wife early while we were dating), that I can't go back now.... It would not be fair to the object of my affection, or myself... as someone said, you want to be with someone who will love and accept you for who you are.... if they don't then they are not the right one....

So good luck and remember you are not alone... there are so many of us that are dealing with the same issue.....