Thinking about things

[Cai]

(Warning - long, confused, and rambly.)
I keep wondering if I'm doing the right thing, in trying to express the masculine me. I had 3 major fights with my mother this weekend and one with my sister over my choice of clothing, and I don't even live with my mother. It's gotten to the point where I don't want to come home next summer. Not to mention that I'm fairly sure my family would not accept the idea of my being trans. So I feel like I'm going to lose them whichever way I go - if I try to keep this hidden, it's going to cause fights and resentment, if I let it out, it's going to cause...well...fights and resentment.

If I ever did come out, I would lose my church family. Maybe some of the individual members might remain my friend, but I would lose the acceptance of the church body as a whole. And the idea of losing them hurts. Especially because without radically changing the type of church I attend, I'd never be able to get a church family again without hiding who I am. And that rather defeats the point, I think. Although I suppose I'm hiding who I am now, so...?

And the last thing I've really been thinking of was sparked by Evert's recent post about meeting a girl who says she's in love with him. I like guys. But the changes I've been making, that make me more comfortable in my own skin (not shaving, binding, wearing masculine scents, guys clothes) are going to make me unattractive to most straight men. And unless I decide to transition (which I don't know is the path for me) I'm not going to be particularly attractive to gay men. There's a whole biological problem even if I did transition.

So I guess the whole thing (which if you read it, I'm impressed) boils down to one question - will anyone love me again?

[Sharon]

If people love you, then they should love you no matter what. This statement is rather simplistic, but love is love as far as I'm concerned, and just because someone doesn't understand you, it shouldn't change that fact. I would like to think that if you had a good heart-to-heart with your loved ones, then they will find a way to accept you, but I have nothing to base these feelings on -- it's often nothing more than wishful thinking.

I have been in the same situation as you find yourself now, and it does hurt -- it hurts like nothing else and is the source of many of my difficulties, not to mention my occasional (frequent?) bad moods. Thank goodness I have a few family members who feel the same love for me as they did before they knew.

Good luck, and, if nothing else, you have your loved ones here. :hugs:

[happyfish]

So I guess the whole thing (which if you read it, I'm impressed) boils down to one question - will anyone love me again?

Simply? Yes. People will love you. And to think that no one loves you now would - I think - be slightly exaddurating (sp?) things, though I must admit I know no details of your situation at all. I'm no good with advice - I feel too young, haven't experienced enough to try to be wise about things. All I can say is that you have to be comfortable with yourself. Can you live without expressing your masculine side? Will it make you feel better to avoid the fights and resentments than to be true to yourself? If you don't know, maybe you could try it and find out? I don't know. It's not my choice to make. I can only ask questions.
I was ready for my parents to not accept me as trans. And yet they did. Well, there's still a bumpy road ahead I'm sure (they haven't seen me since Christmas and I wasn't out to myself then), but still....Sometimes people surprise you. Don't lose hope just yet.
Hope that helps a little bit. :hugs:

[Wren]

...Tough stuff, and first off : *hug*.

oh and forgive me if this is lacking in making sense.

I couldn't tell you to go one way or another with your family and church, I could say that you should be true to yourself, and don't compromise how you choose to express yourself, but that would make me a hypocrit. If there's one consistancy in my life it's that I will never show my dad who I am on the inside. I wear preppy clothing and take out my piercings when I see him, and act as he remembers me when I used to live with him many years ago. I don't want to lose my dad, he wouldn't understand if I explained he would disown me and never see me again. I'm not willing to take that risk. And although it hurts me when I go to sleep at night that I continually hide myself...It's a choice that I made. Someday it might change. On the offchance, everyone's situation is different, and.. you may find that your relationship with your family changes but they don't let go of you forever. As to church, I hope you make the descision that feels spiritually best for you. I offer you another hug.

In matters of the heart. I think everyone will feel that way about someone loving them at some point, FTM genetic female what have you. And the bottom line is that love isn't so superficial and although you may think, what kind of straight man would love an Transman..? the answer is suprisingly many. He won't fall on your lap tomorrow but there will be someone.

[Cai]

I really have no idea whether my parents would accept me or not. I know most of my extended family most likely will not (evangelical fundamentalist Christians whereas I'm Methodist). But my parents are a bit of an unknown quantity. I mean, they've never not accepted me, but I've never done anything they didn't want anyway. Or when I have, I've been very good about hiding it from them. So it's hard for me to tell how accepting they might be of this.

But thanks. You guys always have a way of making me feel better, at least a little.

[happyfish]

But thanks. You guys always have a way of making me feel better, at least a little.
That's why we're here. :hugs:

[AllieSF]

I wish you the best of luck in your plight. Regarding the church issue, here is a post from a friend of mine who came out to her church. I think it is the Unity Church which is supposed to be very accepting of TGs. Good luck.

http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58827

[bi_weird]

*BIG HUG!*
Big stuff there, man. That's gotta be a lot to think about. Have a brownie while you try to feel better.
With regards to religion, yeah doesn't that suck. I was raised Catholic, and part of why I've never gone back is knowing that the church could never really accept me. There are some really awesome religious folks who are accepting of everything, but often those are hard to find. You might get lucky in finding a congregation that's accepting, becuase there often are random ones that do, but yeah I understand not having much hope there. I don't know as much about Methodists, but I do know that Catholic congregations in college towns often have an LGBT outreach, which tries to help people reconcile the two. You might look into that.
About love, of course someone will always love you. Look over at Evert's thread for a perfect example. Yes, it does mean that you'll have to be very open with any future partner, but it can happen. One of my best friends is asexual, so basically she never wants to have sex. She's in a wonderful relationship with another best friend who's a typical horny 21 year old guy. You've heard it before, but the way to make a relationship work is communication, and I've seen that if you're willing to talk enough then just about anything can work. It'll be harder to find someone, sure, but as trite as this sounds it'll be the better for this complication.
As for your family, yeah that sucks. There's really no easy answer to it. Odds are, they love you, and while they may find you incredibly strange they'll still support you. You might try reminding them that you're a big kid now, and what you wear is your choice not theirs. I don't really know what your family is like, though, so it's hard to know. Families are the hardest part, because any unacceptance from them is so hard to bear. I guess just keep in mind that they do love you.
Oi sorry I don't feel like I'm doing much good with advice tonight. I'm thinking happy thoughts for you, though, and I hope you find some peace.

[Dasein9]

Wow, you're biting off some big chunks there, Cai!

I know some Methodists. Well, I did. My ex's family is Methodist. In the North, the communities are different from the South. Northern Methodists, in general, tend to be more accepting of LGBT folks. Anywhere you are, though, it depends on the individual community.

As for family, well, I've talked to a lot of people whose families are accepting and whose families aren't. One constant seems to be that it's complicated. Every family is unique, and every one needs different things from us. In everything, not just being trans.

As for whether someone will love you, well... I've got to say that in a culture where female-bodied people past their mid-30's are invisible, I've been pretty shocked. In the past 9 months or so, while I've been coming out, I've been hit on by more people than in the rest of my life combined. It's not the trans-ness. It's the happiness, the self-confidence, and the sense of humour that tend to come with coming out. If you do what you need to do for YOU, then I suspect others will follow.

[Cai]

I wish you the best of luck in your plight. Regarding the church issue, here is a post from a friend of mine who came out to her church. I think it is the Unity Church which is supposed to be very accepting of TGs. Good luck.

http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58827

I saw that, and went and did some research on Unitarian Universalism. The big problem is the "Unitarian" part - I believe in the Trinity, and they fundamentally do not. But I still might look into that, as it seems like that wouldn't prevent me from worshipping the way they do.




*BIG HUG!*
Big stuff there, man. That's gotta be a lot to think about. Have a brownie while you try to feel better.
With regards to religion, yeah doesn't that suck. I was raised Catholic, and part of why I've never gone back is knowing that the church could never really accept me. There are some really awesome religious folks who are accepting of everything, but often those are hard to find. You might get lucky in finding a congregation that's accepting, becuase there often are random ones that do, but yeah I understand not having much hope there. I don't know as much about Methodists, but I do know that Catholic congregations in college towns often have an LGBT outreach, which tries to help people reconcile the two. You might look into that.
About love, of course someone will always love you. Look over at Evert's thread for a perfect example. Yes, it does mean that you'll have to be very open with any future partner, but it can happen. One of my best friends is asexual, so basically she never wants to have sex. She's in a wonderful relationship with another best friend who's a typical horny 21 year old guy. You've heard it before, but the way to make a relationship work is communication, and I've seen that if you're willing to talk enough then just about anything can work. It'll be harder to find someone, sure, but as trite as this sounds it'll be the better for this complication.
As for your family, yeah that sucks. There's really no easy answer to it. Odds are, they love you, and while they may find you incredibly strange they'll still support you. You might try reminding them that you're a big kid now, and what you wear is your choice not theirs. I don't really know what your family is like, though, so it's hard to know. Families are the hardest part, because any unacceptance from them is so hard to bear. I guess just keep in mind that they do love you.
Oi sorry I don't feel like I'm doing much good with advice tonight. I'm thinking happy thoughts for you, though, and I hope you find some peace.

Thanks Bi. Everything you said here makes sense, and I appreciate it.

[Dasein9]

Well, I'm not trying to convert you or anything, but if you're interested in religious research... Take a look at the Quakers. Like the Methodists, they have a strong history of social justice work. The Quakers and the Methodists were the ones who ran the Underground Railroad.

There are two kinds of Quaker worship, programmed, which is like a church service and unprogrammed. From what I understand, those who do programmed worship use the Methodist hymnal and liturgy, so it would be familiar. Unprogrammed worship is silent, no pastor or priest, no altar. But if someone is inspired by the Spirit to speak, s/he does. It's a lot like meditation, but without the sitting on the floor. The first few times can be difficult, but it's rewarding too.

There are Quaker churches and Quaker Meetings in North Carolina. (That's where you are, right?)

[CaptLex]

You got a lot of stuff going on in your head all at the same time, huh? It might be easier to tackle one at a time. Is there any way you can see a counselor (preferably a gender therapist)? Or maybe you can find a support group in your area. These are the types of topics generally discussed in counseling, which I think really does help. Of course, if individual or group counseling is not available to you, we're always here for you, but I really think you would benefit immensely from personal help too. :hugs:

BTW, I know how you feel. I don't think I can be with straight guys anymore, and I can't imagine that a gay guy would be interested in me (a guy without the "equipment"). I'm not giving up hope just yet, though. :raisedeyebrow:

[Cai]

Hmmm, that's interesting. (Yes, I'm in NC). The group that's in the city where I live states repeatedly that they don't have a creed or particular rules, and that they stand for social justice and peace. It's an unprogrammed service, but their description sounds like something I would enjoy.

[Dasein9]

Well, consider yourself invited by a Quaker. :) I'm not down there. If I were, I'd offer to go with you if you want to check them out.

What I WILL NOT do is try to pester you into going, or proselytize in any way.

But if you decide you want to go, I can fill you in on what to expect and what's generally considered courteous behaviour.

Youth is a time to explore and examine ideas. Well, so is any time of life. :D

[Cai]

You got a lot of stuff going on in your head all at the same time, huh? It might be easier to tackle one at a time. Is there any way you can see a counselor (preferably a gender therapist)? Or maybe you can find a support group in your area. These are the types of topics generally discussed in counseling, which I think really does help. Of course, if individual or group counseling is not available to you, we're always here for you, but I really think you would benefit immensely from personal help too. :hugs:

BTW, I know how you feel. I don't think I can be with straight guys anymore, and I can't imagine that a gay guy would be interested in me (a guy without the "equipment"). I'm not giving up hope just yet, though. :raisedeyebrow:

I checked, and unfortunately the only support group that I can find in my area is a Tri-Ess chapter, and I don't think that's quite what I'm looking for. I think that I'll talk to the therapist at school in the fall though. I go to an extremely liberal women's college, with at least one out FTM that I know of, so I think she could help me or at least recommend someone.

[CaptLex]

I think that I'll talk to the therapist at school in the fall though. I go to an extremely liberal women's college, with at least one out FTM that I know of, so I think she could help me or at least recommend someone.
I think that's a great idea, Cai. :thumbsup: Meanwhile, you know we're here for you, whether you get local help or not. :hugs:

[O2B Barbara]

As a mtf I still love the women of the world, maybe why I am the way I am . I have a wonderfull and supporting wife, loves me as I am. As she says, Barbara is a big part of me and she loves all of me. I do wish that she would take a more masculine role once in a while. While she is accepting, she has a hard time with me wanting to be taken and loved as Barbara.

I am sure that there is someone out there that will see all of you and love you for what you are. A more complete person that has feelings and desires. It took a long time but I found such a woman for Barbara, there is a man out there just waiting to meet you!