On Gaining "Permission"

[Ginger62]

Hello Everyone,

It has been awhile since I have posted, I hope you all are well. I need your input on a topic with which I am currently struggling.

I came out to my wife a year ago. She has been receptive to the fact that I love skirts and thigh highs and she doesn't mind me wearing them around the house. I wear my stockings daily under my work clothes. Recently, I again brought up the topic of wanting to shave my legs. I love how it feels and how they look in my stockings. However, my wife finds smooth legs on a guy a HUGE turnoff. Regardless, I'm trying to figure out how to speak with her about this so that she would agree to allowing me to shave my gams.

Am I being too selfish here? Should I just grow a pair and do it and tell her to get over it when she discovers my newfound smoothness? I appreciate your insight, especially from the GGs out there.

Hugs,

Ginger

[O2B Barbara]

Hi Ginger,

I have also mentioned shaving my legs to the wife, she too was not so receptive although for different reasons. I am thinking that I will take it slow and give her time to adjust to the idea and if she is still not so thrilled maybe offer a compromise. With somethings it has been "can I try it once and see what it is like"? We have an agreement that if she is completely opposed after trying something, we wouldn't do it anymore. This works both ways for us.

One thing that has helped my wife with my dressing is to involve her in it. Possibly ask your wife for help the first time? This may help her to feel needed.

[Deanna2]

I'm not sure what there is to talk about. I would just do it and if or when she notices she'll either have something to say or will let it be. If she opposes it you'll be the second person to know. Otherwise it will be another small step for girlhood.

[Michelle04240]

My wife was not very crazy about it when I first shaved. I was not very hairy to begin with no it didn't really take much work lol. I went slow. The tops of my legs first..then chest..and then went all out for my first trip out. Funny thing is, she now hates body hair. she has grown to love a smooth body and would hate it if I stopped shaving.

[Vicky_Scot]

Does she ask for your permission to shave her legs?

[Kate Simmons]

Does she ask for your permission to shave her legs?Good point Hon. Is it "natural" for a woman to shave her legs? Nope, not really, it's a learned behavior that is conditioned by society.:happy:

[MsJanessa]

Wal Mart sells a type of thigh highs that are a bit thicker than the regular kind and tend to cover leg hair better---also you can double up on your hose to better cover the hair.

[Alex S]

My wife is not really liking the idea but she is willing to let me try once but if she does not like it I wont shave them again. I :love: her dearly and willing to work with her to keep her happy.:2c:

[Di]

My wife is not really liking the idea but she is willing to let me try once but if she does not like it I wont shave them again. I :love: her dearly and willing to work with her to keep her happy.:2c:

I like that....try a compromise....lets try it and go from there....but the just do it comments...I'd nix that idea.... she is receptive you said....and if this is a touchy point with her.....something she really likes your legs the way they are....I would not just DO it as others suggested...........there are two of you in this relationship.........and is should be about the two of you.:2c:

[MsJoann]

I started shaving my body in small steps over time. First thighs, then complete legs, armpits, arms and hands last. I keep it that way constantly.
Yes the GF wants chest hair to run her fingers through...but....oh well, it's MY body afterall and I'm the one who has to live in it.

[Leah B]

Let her know how important it is to you and she may come around. Don't just do it though. That's the kind of stuff that lands you in the doghouse.

Still, if she tries to tell you its selfish to want to shave her legs, keep in mind that it's selfish for her to demand them furry.

[Dixie]

Di is right, there are two in a relationship. Having too selfish an attitude can cause friction in the relationship. "..After all it's my body isn't it?" When in a relationship don't you give yourself to your lover, so in a way your body is also hers and visa versa. What if she did something to her body that you dissapprove of just because "it's her body" would you feel the same way? I'm fortunate that it's not much of an issue with my wife, so it's easy for me to say these things on shaving,but we have other boundaries and I resepct them as does she. It is a give and take relationship that we are striving to maintain a balance in so that no one person is doing more giving or taking. I'll get off my soapbox now, next?
:2c: Dixie

[Kristen Marie]

Sounds like you have a supportive wife. And after only a year, I would not push it right yet. I spent the last six months with electrolysys and have removed most of my upper back and shoulder hairs. We are always together and she has not said anything or hinted she disliked it. Go slowly with change. Maybe work on removing parts of the leg hair, like the outside back of your calf. I have no hair there naturally.

[Andi]

I don't think so. Di is right, what do you think a married relationship is all about? I hope it was more than a legal OK to have sex with your partner. The only way to a longterm relationship is to give much more than you expect. You've got to decide what's a deal breaker and I hope this isn't one of them.

[JoAnnDallas]

I tend to get a rash on my legs, thus I use a lot of lotions to keep my legs hydraded. On day I mentioned to my wife that the lotion leaves a sticky feeling to my legs. She doesn't know about my fem side, but she said to try shaving my legs after my next shower and lotion and see if it made a difference. So I did and I'll take every acceptance like this I can get. LOL That was last summer and have shaved my legs, chest, and arms ever sense.

[karynspanties]

It was easy for me, I used to constantly scratch at my legs when they had hair. She used to comment about how un-attractive my legs were scratched raw. Now they are nice and smooth.....no more scratching.

[Miss Terr]

I am realizing more and more its best to get the CD issue on the table as early in the relationship as possible.


I do understand both arguments:

Its your body and do what you want.

And being in a relationship you value you want to keep the peace.

I must say when I was with my GF she "disliked me shaving my stomach and chest and liked furry," I even entered into the relationship shaved.
I hated it and it didnt feel good to have someone impose their 'hang-ups' over my personal appearance/hygiene.
If a relationship is truly an equal partnership ask the other party how they would like it to have you strongly oppose _________________(fill in the blank) concerning their appearance.

[Mitch23]

Just been through this same issue - mentioned it on other threads. In the end i went ahead and did it - wife was not thrilled - finds me too prickly and scratchy. sort of reached a compromise last night - she doesnt mind me doing lower legs. i would want to go over the knee area and will let the rest grow back. she thinks its just another step in my ongoing wierdness - shes prolly right!

mitch

[Sandra]

My wife is not really liking the idea but she is willing to let me try once but if she does not like it I wont shave them again. I :love: her dearly and willing to work with her to keep her happy.:2c:

This is a good idea if she has never felt hairless legs before she may find out she likes the feel. As for the comments "just go and do it" yeah go ahead if you want a massive arguement. Talk to her again and explain how you feel.

[Tamara Segunda]

She can no more select her turn-ons and turn-offs than you can select whether you want to CD or not. Hard as it may be to fathom, some women are attracted to men with body hair. Of course you will ultimately do what you must, but if I had a choice between an SO who accepted me but found me unattractive, and an SO who viewed me as both a friend and a love god, well.... Oh, and I truly *do* understand that you may *not* have a choice in the matter, but may be driven by something irresistible. Best of luck.
.......Tamara Segunda

[Alice B]

I keep my legs shaved all the time and have for almost 15 years although I did not start to cross dress in the past 3 years. My wife is used to it and OK with it except when they get a pit prickley. I used to swim in competition and shaving is normal. Also may bike riders shave legs and arms. Being shaved is not that abnormal and mayber if she would let you try once, she migh not mind and get used to it. Then you can enjoy all the feeling that go with smooth legs. Good Luck!:happy:

[marie354]

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones...
I've been shaving so long, that the only thing I get any more is a small tuft on my knees. You'd have to look for it to see it too, before it's shaved clean again.

My leg and under-arm hair just kept getting thinner and thinner over the years.

I'm a bit jealous of my SO, though... She has never had any hair to shave at all in her under-arms. Lucky girl.
:hugs:
She knew about my hairless body very early in our relationship.

[Ginger62]

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for all of your replys to my situation.

From them I have learned this:

1) Take it slow.
2) Talk it over.
3) Ask her to try it with me and see how she likes it.
4) I'm not sure if I brave enough to ask her this one- ask her to join me when I shave my legs.

We'll see! I am certain that it won't be boring.

Hugs,

Ginger

[kittypw GG]

She can no more select her turn-ons and turn-offs than you can select whether you want to CD or not. Hard as it may be to fathom, some women are attracted to men with body hair. Of course you will ultimately do what you must, but if I had a choice between an SO who accepted me but found me unattractive, and an SO who viewed me as both a friend and a love god, well.... Oh, and I truly *do* understand that you may *not* have a choice in the matter, but may be driven by something irresistible. Best of luck.
.......Tamara Segunda

Exactly. It is not so much about controlling you (why do cd's think that their wives want to contol someone? We actually want equal partners) It is about sexual attraction. I am ok with cd'ing but the more my hubby looks like a girl the less I am sexually attracted. After all most of us are heterosexual and are trying to comprimise about your need to cd. Being bi-sexual would help but most of us are not. If you want to turn her off further then go ahead and shave like others have suggested. You need to calculate the damage you will do by not respecting her feelings. If you want to gain or maintain her respect for you then try a comprimise. How about seasonal shaving? Shaving during the winter. The other thing about shaving that is a turn off is that it keeps cd's from participating in activities with the family like wearing shorts or swimming. Seasonal shaving would be a nice comprimise and something to consider. Considering your partners feelings is part of being in a relationship and will work better for you in the long run. :hugs:Kitty

[RachelDenise]

If it's a touchy subject, don't just do it. If you want to lose all you have gained that is. Keep the lines of communication open. If she is tolerant of other things, maybe this will work out as well.

[Satrana]

If we are talking about basic rights, then your need easily outweighs her preference. It is your body and only you can decide if you want to shave or not. If her feelings for you are reversed by a lack of body hair then I would suggest there is something seriously wrong with your relationship. Remember it is women who remind men that their beauty is more than skin deep.

Body hair on men does not equate to effeminacy. Many male models, actors, body builders are hairless and their masculininty is not questioned.

On the other hand you do need to prepare her for your decision by having a long chat and making sure you communicate how important this is to you, and how hurt you are that she says her love for you will be diminshed over shaved body hair. Tell her that is the equivalent of you telling her that if she changes her hair style your love for her will diminish, or (more topical) you are turned off when she wears pants and not skirts etc. Use examples like this to illustrate how silly and trivial the whole idea is.

One last note. It is quite probable that she has another reason for preventing you from shaving - namely she wants to stop anything which will make you, in her mind, more effeminate. Today it is shaving, tomorrow earlobe piercing, next week eyebrow plucking etc. It is probably as much fear than anything else that is behind her objection. And this fear will only strengthen her dislike of your smooth skin (since when did smooth skin become off-putting?)

And if she still disapproves, grow a long shaggy beard.:heehee:

[Karren H]

Hey... marriage if full of comprimises.... feel lucky you can wear what you wear and don't push it..... in my opinion!!

Karren

[kittypw GG]

Body hair on men does not equate to effeminacy. Many male models, actors, body builders are hairless and their masculininty is not questioned.



I agree Satrana but most CD's want to also weight 120 lbs and shrink their hands and arms so essentially they are TRYING to be more effeminate in every way. Beauty is more than skin deep but sexual attraction has nothing to do with beauty.

Most of you know Eddie Izzard right? Well I was watching an episode of the
"Riches" and he had his shirt off. I did notice that he did not have any chest hair or hair under his arms but I noticed even more the girth of his arms and how muscular and sexy they were. Made me not really care about his body hair. Too bad we can't hear from him about how he balances his fem/male life. On the surface he seems to do just fine. :happy:

:hugs: Kitty

[Angie G]

I just did my legs one day and she never had a thing to say :hugs:
Angie

[Robin Leigh]

Clearly, each person has to live in their own body. But in an intimate relationship, we share our body with our partner. Surely, as a couple we want to do things together that we both enjoy? Rather than taking turns in simply tolerating each other's wishes & fantasies? Of course, there will always be compromises, but they should be the exception, not the rule, IMHO.

Being open to experimentation is good. Sometimes, we may think we like (or dislike) something, but when the fantasy becomes reality, we find we were mistaken. :)

Your SO may not like the look of shaved legs on a guy, but once she's felt them, she may feel differently. ;)

If your legs get prickly, try using a little hair conditioner on them every day in the shower. And shave them regularly. Exfoliating & moisturizing will help, too.

:hugs:

Robin

[JoAnnDallas]

I have a tendency to get a rash on my legs from time to time. I started using a new cream on them and noticed that it would leave a stick stuff on the hairs on my legs, so I started shaving them. Wife asked why I was shaving my legs, so I told her. She agreed with what I said and that was it. I just naturally extended the shaving area to chest, under arms, and arms. LOL

[Jamie001]

I really don't understand what this issue is regarding leg shaving. Some men shave their face, other men shave their heads, what is so different about shaving the legs? Shaving of any body part is a very personal thing and should be up-to the person that has the body part that they are considering shaving. In my opinion, hair on any body part other than the head does not serve any purpose. Why would someone care if you have hair on your legs or even more so under your arms? Underarm hair also facillitates bacteria growth and contributes to odors. If you want to shave your legs, I would suggest just shaving them. We give other people too much power over things like this that are very personal.

[Mitch23]

I think i will have to compromise and just do my legs to top of knee - she genuinely doesnt like it and i think i didnt handle it as diplomatically as i should have done. I'll pick on the tip about using moisturiser - something else to add to my ever mounting cosmetics bill!

mitch

[Satrana]

I agree Satrana but most CD's want to also weight 120 lbs and shrink their hands and arms so essentially they are TRYING to be more effeminate in every way. Beauty is more than skin deep but sexual attraction has nothing to do with beauty.


Well weight loss is another matter. It is difficult for a man to get close to the thinness of (sexy) ladies as he would have to go on a starvation diet to waste his muscles. If crossdressing results in men going on diets and exercise to get to a normal weight then this is a good thing IMO and should really increase sexual attraction. But if he goes beyond this and starves himself then yes sexual attraction will likely be affected.

Going back to the hair, if my partner said her attraction to me would diminish significantly because I shaved my body hair then I would consider that incredibly shallow of her. I appreciate she may have a preference but I would hope that her attraction to me is based mostly on my personality, SOH, facial features, overall body dimensions etc. Body hair should be only a minor consideration and honestly, it is something which I think 99.9% of people could easily adjust to and understand that it is the sole decision for the other person.

A comparison of this would be:
Younger women generally have longer hair styles which men generally find very attractive.
Older women often cut their hair to a shorter manageable bob which men generally find less attractive.
Questions:
1. How many women request permission from their partner to alter their hair style?
2. How many men would be really significantly turned off when their partners shortened their hair, how many would strongly object to the idea and try and prevent it assuming their partners had told them in advance?

Hair is hair no matter where it is located. Yes it does alter the look of the face or body but people alter their hair styles all the time and we all seem to be able to adjust easily to new looks. Body hair should not be treated differently just because it is a crossdresser wanting to rid his body of a masculine sign. This reasoning should be irrelevant to the issue at hand.

I still say that when a SO of a CD objects, preference may be one consideration, but the underlying issues are fear of discovery, fear of social embarrassment, fear of the slippery slope to something else.

[Karen Johnson]

My wife pretty well accepts my dressing, but we don't see eye to eye on everything. The leg shaving thing is a huge turn-off to her as well, so I simply don't do it. Sometimes she's more receptive to my dressing than others, so I usually end up working around her moods. It is a whole lot nicer when we're both on the same page.

And for what it's worth, when we first got married she didn't know she was marrying a man and a woman. Even though she "pretty well" accepts my dressing, it still freaks her out a little (for more reasons than I'll go into here).

So, I figure you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes....

[Fab Karen]

I agree Satrana but most CD's want to also weight 120 lbs and shrink their hands and arms so essentially they are TRYING to be more effeminate in every way.

:hugs: Kitty
You mean most CD's that you know. If I said MOST GG's...followed by something you know isn't related to MOST, you'd speak up I imagine.

[Mitch23]

My wife pretty well accepts my dressing, but we don't see eye to eye on everything. The leg shaving thing is a huge turn-off to her as well, so I simply don't do it. Sometimes she's more receptive to my dressing than others, so I usually end up working around her moods. It is a whole lot nicer when we're both on the same page.

And for what it's worth, when we first got married she didn't know she was marrying a man and a woman. Even though she "pretty well" accepts my dressing, it still freaks her out a little (for more reasons than I'll go into here).

So, I figure you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes....
Just how it is for me. I'm just so proud of her for going with me as far as she has - I honestly thought it was next stop the divorce courts. I've hit her with such a lot in the last six months - I'm sure its a fear of where its leading. She married a guy and now it seems he wants to turn into a woman. I've just got to be sensitive. we've discussed it, she doesnt like it but she'll let me do my lower legs but doesnt like cuddles with prickly thighs - ok i'll live with that! Thank you very much for your input Satrana, I agree with everything you say regarding hairiness - fortunately weight isn't a problem - I'd like to put some on!

mitch

[kittypw GG]

You all have permission to pick apart every word I said but the fact remains that many women don't like the shaving and it has more to do with sexual attraction and a little to do with fear of discovery and some of the other things that Satrana mentioned. I think that most women would be ok with the shaving as long as the male physic is maintained.

I'm an speaking strickly of heterosexual women here, not bi-sexual women. The man with no body hair is sexually attractive when he has ripped muscles and wears baby oil. Just take a poll of most women. I personally have found that ftm's who are buff are also sexually attractive. I watched a show about ftm trans men and there was one that stood out with ripped muscles, shaved head etc. I would never had known he was previously a she and I found him quite sexually attractive and he had no body hair. He had the physic of a man. You can not deny that looks are important to sexual attraction and body physic is a big part of it. A women without breasts and a guys hair cut is not as sexually attractive to a heterosexual man as one with ample breasts and longer hair.

I can find my hubby sexually attractive when he is presenting as a women but it takes more work and concentration than when he is himself. It helps when his arms are strong and I can see the he through the her if that makes sense. I don't mind saying it but hairy legs and chest are damn sexy to me and a lot of other women period. Hairless legs and body can be accepted easier if the he part is not over taken by the she. It comes down to balance I guess. :hugs: Kitty

[Kristen Kelly]

I like that....try a compromise....lets try it and go from there....but the just do it comments...I'd nix that idea.... she is receptive you said....and if this is a touchy point with her.....something she really likes your legs the way they are....I would not just DO it as others suggested...........there are two of you in this relationship.........and is should be about the two of you.:2c:

Compromise, tough word at times. This being Pride week here in NJ, I was planning on going to the parade in Asbury Park on Sunday. I had no issues being out in the daytime, being seen by others out, do it all the time. My GF had a problem with the fact of the media being there, since I am not out to family (hers and mine) and would rather I not go. We had a L O N G discussion and told her it is about being seen in and as a community and I am PROUD of who I am. Told her if I do decide to go will attend in male mode but plan on attending enfem next year. Funny being out enfem there is less of a chance of being reconized, but I have a better chance of being percieved as GAY out in male mode. That was less of an issue.

[Sodapop]

I just dress a couple times a week for a while before bed, my wife knows and accepts but does not participate. She'd "allow" me to do pretty much anything like shaving , piercing, plucking etc.... but it'd be the OTHER people in my life that I'd have to hide it from. I'm the hairiest person I've ever met, and spend rather a lot of time with only (mens) shorts on. I thought to myself : "Would shaving my legs improve my life?" and "Would I end up telling lies about it?"

for me.. no shaving. I wear ladies' clothes with high necklines, and I can accept that scrutinizing my pantyhose will reveal hair underneath. I bought myself some tights and my wife picked up a turtleneck for me so I can hide all my hair under my clothes, when it suits me to do so while dressing. I still haven't found any cocktail gloves to hide my extrememly manly hands while I'm prancing around the bedroom in eyeliner and pumps, but I'm never planning to pass in public anyway.

I think it'd be fun to do, but it wouldn't enhance my life enough to pay the price.

Good luck with your shaving choices.

Sodapop

[Seville]

Body hair on men does not equate to effeminacy. Many male models, actors, body builders are hairless and their masculininty is not questioned.

One last note. It is quite probable that she has another reason for preventing you from shaving - namely she wants to stop anything which will make you, in her mind, more effeminate. Today it is shaving, tomorrow earlobe piercing, next week eyebrow plucking etc. It is probably as much fear than anything else that is behind her objection. And this fear will only strengthen her dislike of your smooth skin (since when did smooth skin become off-putting?)

And if she still disapproves, grow a long shaggy beard.:heehee:

AMEN!!! Well said!

[Mitch23]

Exactly where it is in our house. I've mentioned ear lobes - did not get a positive reaction!

Mitch

[Ginger62]

Hello Everyone,

After reading Kittypw GGs response and giving this situation some additional thought, I think I have gained a better perspective on this hairy leg situation I so desparately want to change.

My wife sees me as a guy. She is attracted to the guy. Guys typically have hairy legs. Seeing me with smooth legs takes away some of the guy she's attracted to. If opposites attract, then that's it. As heterosexual males, we are attracted to the many features that makes a woman a woman. Take your pick- hair, legs, clothes, breasts, all of it- you get the point.

I still want to shave my legs, but at least I can understand where she's coming from a little better now. Thank you Kittypw GG, you have really helped

Hugs,

Ginger

[Rebecca_Annette]

I went down the road of "it's my body, I can do with it as I want" with my recent SO.

With hindsight it was a mistake.

Though, I do think the suggestion initially came from her, I did not say "I want to try it". That was the mistake, she was very annoyed that I'd done it.

So, like a lot of others have suggested, discuss it? Talk to her about it. And take into view her feelings.

And as Di says "There are two people in a relationship".

[Fab Karen]

Hello Everyone,


My wife sees me as a guy. She is attracted to the guy. Guys typically have hairy legs. Seeing me with smooth legs takes away some of the guy she's attracted to. If opposites attract, then that's it. As heterosexual males, we are attracted to the many features that makes a woman a woman. Take your pick- hair, legs, clothes, breasts, all of it- you get the point.



Hugs,

Ginger

Well these days "typically" is changing. I do have to wonder, shoe on the other foot, if a woman decided to stop shaving her legs & her guy said,"oh I'm totally turned off by that, you have to do it" would she be offended? Would she consider him shallow?
I live in a big city and I think most people here would find the idea of "a man without leg hair, what will people say?" pretty silly.

[samcs]

I am on the verge of shaving my legs with my wife's permission. I have also worn tight guy socks for many years and it left the bottom half of my legs bare of hair. I have been also helping to raise this hair line a bit higher by shaving it ever so slightly upward over the last few weeks. My wife just said how silly it looks bare at the bottom and hairy on top. So the compromise was that I could shave my legs. BTW - She does not know that I am a CD. She would almost certainly say no if she knew.