Sexual Identity vs Sexual Orientation

[Amiad]

With the recent high profile admissions about being transgendered, MSN Homepage ran an article discussing the topic of Sexual Identity and how it is unrelated to Sexual Orientaion. I completely agree that they are not connected, but it started me thinking.....

There are six probable ways to combine our sexual identities and our sexual orientations (12 if we include women). I know there is alot of gray area here but work with me.

BORN IDENTITY ORIENTATION
Male Male Straight
Male Male Bi
Male Male Gay
Male Female Straight (likes men)
Male Female Bi
Male Female Gay (likes women)

It is this last pairing that has me thinking. Do you know anyone, or do you, identify as being Transgendered but also gay?

[Sharon]

If by "transgendered" you mean transsexual, then talking about gay and straight can be confusing for those who are not transsexual.

Let's suppose we have a female transsexual -- that is, male to female -- then what many may see as a gay relationship, actually isn't, not when you understand that the MtF identifies as a female, and the partner also views her as such.

In this regard, yes, I know someone. :happy:

[CaptLex]

BORN IDENTITY ORIENTATION
Male Male Straight
Male Male Bi
Male Male Gay
Male Female Straight (likes men)
Male Female Bi
Male Female Gay (likes women)

Is your chart only for those born male? :confused:

[Billijo49504]

Well I'm a crossdresser, not trans what ever, I like girls. Especially one that I married 22 yrs ago...BJ

[Kieron Andrew]

Is your chart only for those born male? :confused:
:straightface::rolleyes:

[Amiad]

For the sake of clarity I only addressed men. My question is anyone/does anyone...

born male...identifies female....likes women
born female....identifies male....likes men

[CaptLex]

For the sake of clarity I only addressed men, but that is why I said if we include women there would be 12

Well okay, with that clarification, to answer your original question:


Do you know anyone, or do you, identify as being Transgendered but also gay?
Yes, I know lots of them - of the female to male variety, mostly (including yours truly). :happy:

[Amiad]

Thanks Lex and what did you think of "At Worlds End"?

[CaptLex]

Thanks Lex and what did you think of "At Worlds End"?
Ha, ha . . . didn't see that coming. Not to take your thread off topic (but since you already did) . . . it was partially confusing, and there were some disappointing parts, but I enjoyed it anyway - and I have to see it again. :D

[trannie T]

I like women.
I enjoy sex with women.
I enjoy dressing in women's clothing.

Some of my best friends are men but I don't want to have sex with them.

[Dixie]

I guess I would be Lesbian/Bi-curious:heehee:

[RuthieER]

I describe myself as a Bisexual Feminine-Identified Biological Male; that is, I don't see myself as Female (I am CD, not TS), but I present as "feminine" rather than "masculine". I am attracted to both men and women, butch and femme (the combination I like in an individual depends on my current mood, and the individual's preferences).

Ruthie

[Cai]

I fall into the same group as the Captain, born female, identify male, and likes men. Which makes me transsexual but also gay.

It's not as common for transsexuals to be gay, just as it's not as common for cisgendered people to be gay, but it does happen.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Well hun......

I was born a male, really been F2M most of my life mentally to match family's and society's demands, I am female in my head, and YES....I love women sexually (can't tell you if this is my "male" upbringing and F2M practice kicking in or if I'm a gay female in my head....don't really care to be honest). Confused enough yet?



Emily Ann

[Valerie Nicole]

IMO you missed an entire category when you made your chart. You forgot those of us that might identify as androgynous. I am one of them. I'm neither male nor female, I'm somebody who at separate times manifests both of those genders. So your chart should really be...

BORN IDENTITY ORIENTATION
Male Male Likes Women
Male Male Bi
Male Male Likes Men
Male Androgynous Likes Women
Male Androgynous Bi
Male Androgynous Likes Men
Male Female Likes Women
Male Female Bi
Male Female Likes Men

And of course, adding in the chart for women, you get:

Female Male Likes Women
Female Male Bi
Female Male Likes Men
Female Androgynous Likes Women
Female Androgynous Bi
Female Androgynous Likes Men
Female Female Likes Women
Female Female Bi
Female Female Likes Men

[Opie!]

I very much would like to become a real woman, and perhaps, one day I will, but that won't change my sexual orientation. I've always been a big fan of women, in all regards. I've often told my friends that I'm a lesbian trapped in a mans body, and let them assume that I meant I'm a heterosexual male.

So, yes, I suppose if you break it down that way, I'm male female homosexual (likes girls). Although I really don't much care for so many labels, it's more complex than just three words.

Some day, I may get over my fear, and transition into full female. (saving up for laser facial hair removal 8*) )

[aka.laura]

I'm an enthousiastic cd'er and I like to phantasise that when I'm fully dressed up I'm a lesbian ;o) I admit that I have the odd phantasies about men (when I'm heavilly dolled up). I had an encounter with another cd'er once but I didn't have the guts to get serious. I admit I would like to try out what is's like to have sex with the "opposite sex" (opposite??? What's opposite!???) but as i said, I just don't dare. what the heck

[Dasein9]

With the recent high profile admissions about being transgendered, MSN Homepage ran an article discussing the topic of Sexual Identity and how it is unrelated to Sexual Orientaion. I completely agree that they are not connected, but it started me thinking.....

I couldn't disagree more. They certainly are connected. What they are not is identical.

Orientation -- outward, what other people attract one.
Identity -- inward, what one feels like oneself.

In the case of both, there is a very important point of connection: the individual in question.

[MJ]

hmm lets see i was born male in transistion... like woman 100% like guys 59% so i guess i am sort of bi then

[rose382832]

born male married to a gg for 18 years and never had any interest in being with a male so i must be a cd lesbian.:2c:

[Mary Morgan]

The more I learn, the more convinced I am that gender, like everything else, is a continuim. Every attempt To create categories results in excluding someone, or some point of view. I prefer to think of gender as being on a scale. At one end we have females and at the other males. We all fall somewhere on the scale, but there are as many variations as there are individuals. I also believe that to some degree, this is a fluid situation in that the more comfortable we and others become with ourselves, the more likely we are to move in one direction or the other on the scale. I for one cannot tell you where I belong on the scale as I am the product of many years of coping, hiding, revealing and trying to live with a society that has not been terribly accepting yet. I remain hopeful.

[Victoria Anne]

ok,lets see.born male....identify female...mariied to a beautiful GG...never interested in a male to male relationship,....always thought I was a lesbian trapped in a mans body,my wife does not think thats funny but supports me and loves me anyway for who I am.

[MarinaTwelve200]

With the recent high profile admissions about being transgendered, MSN Homepage ran an article discussing the topic of Sexual Identity and how it is unrelated to Sexual Orientaion. I completely agree that they are not connected, but it started me thinking.....

There are six probable ways to combine our sexual identities and our sexual orientations (12 if we include women). I know there is alot of gray area here but work with me.

BORN IDENTITY ORIENTATION
Male Male Straight
Male Male Bi
Male Male Gay
Male Female Straight (likes men)
Male Female Bi
Male Female Gay (likes women)

It is this last pairing that has me thinking. Do you know anyone, or do you, identify as being Transgendered but also gay?

This is very similar to my own discoveries about the IDENTITY function itself
I have so far identified 5 components of identity--or how we mentally concieve ourselves. 1. Animate/inanimate, 2. Human / Animal 3. Male/Female 4. Homosexual/hetrosexual 5. "Me"

You are writing about my #3(sexual identity) and 4(sexuality or orentation)
Note that I dont have Bisexual in my sexuality system as I have reason to beleive that BS is not a "middle ground" between the two but is a "meta structural" anomaly occuring at the point before HS and Hetro split off and differentiate (Dont ask me to explain this just now)

I beleive that a person born biological MALE or FEMALE has these identity elements "toggled" one way of the other by a prenatal "hormone wash"---usually to a biosex approprate "norm"

The embryo brain is FEMALE by default, and the hormone wash is supposed to "set" the identity togles to the male positions in the case of a male, and the wash is absent in a female--so it keeps the default settings in the identity components. As a result, mostly MALES are affected by non-typical settings--as if he does not get the "wash' or what wash he got didnt entirely "take"----Females normaly dont get the masculizing wash, so theiy usually remain in female default mode.---A female getting "male settings" is much harder to acomplish as the female embryo does not usually generate male hormones, in utero as does the male.----

Besides #3 or 4 affecting identity--a Mis set #1 may result in a fetish type personality, while a #2 anomaoly will result in "A transformationist or "furry" fixation. Playing with #5 detaches one from ones personal self--Another root of CD for us "escapist CD" types.

[willowgurl]

I am a devoted CDer, but also a gay man. I love everthing about being someone's "girlfriend" and think I'm alot more fun for my boyfriends as a "girl". Willow

[Caroline]

I always have difficulty fitting myself into those neat little boxes that people like to fit one into, and frankly I dislike the practice intensely, which is why I try never to categorise others.

Furthermore, a great deal has been written in the social sciences in an attempt to define 'identity', much of it contradictory - one famous sociologist even stated that one's identity was how others saw one, as if one didn't have a view of one-s own!

Having said that, I was born anatomically male, but that included a lot of characteristics which are generally considered female and parents/society etc try to drum out of their sones - the corollary being true for daughters. From an early age (about 3) I was attracted to my mother's underclothing -she was the only female in the household - both sexually and sensually, and I have enjoyed crossdressing ever since. However, I am exclusively heterosexual regarding my birth gender, in that I have only ever been interested in females. What other people think that makes me is up to them, but I will remain just me.

[gulliver]

this is one of society's problems that's caused me a great deal of angst for most of my life!
i've thought and felt a lot about it and here are my views -
i am a person first, male second;
i am a girly bloke, and have always had girly tastes in clothes;
i wear my (not 'women's') clothes, including skirts, dresses etc;
i have 'modified' my body so that dresses fit properly;
i do not try to appear to be a girl - i have a beard and shaved head;
i consider trying to be something one is not to be false;
i understand why people do that and feel there is a major problem within society that causes those people to feel they need to do that - i feel sorry for those people;
i have been complemented many times, usually by girl friends, on my dress sense, taste and, of course, my legs!
i was told recently that the way i dress suits me;
i am not attracted to men in any way - most of them seem to have too much testosterone and behave like total dickheads!
i don't subscribe to any male/female dichotomy - if everyone treated everyone else as people first and didn't try to put them in little boxes, many of the world's problems might not exist.

i just wish i'd ignored the fears 25 years ago.

[Margie]

I tend to agree with Louise but maybe in different words? I can't put myself in a category or class or whatever. I'm a crossdresser and feel very feminine when dressed, even when not dressed sometimes. I've been married for over forty years and love being in my wifes arms. I love women, being around them and not in the least turned on by men. I socialize with men at work and in my town and enjoy that also. For me I'm happiest around women and being in the role of a woman. Maybe someone would put me in a class or category? LOL I'm just me ...Margie! LOL

[SarahLynn]

I prefer to think of gender as being on a scale. At one end we have females and at the other males.

Louise, I think you might have an easier time understanding this issue if you think of this not as a linear scale but rather circular. A scale where male and female are positioned at opposite poles but still connected by the scale. If they move in either direction on the scale, or across the void, they become more like the other but not necessarally actually becoming the other.

The key which makes the circle a sphere is to add the different aspects of gender into the issue, ie; Identity / Presentation / Orientation.

Sarahlynn

Ohhh, all this thinking makes my head hurt, i think i need a :drink:
SL:happy:

[Josephine 1941]

OK back again with IS A SOUL MALE OR FEMALE We are what we are an when I dress as a female I am a female when I dress as a man so on an so forth. I think any man that has you know what, an dress's as a women has to be curious. I was an I did so I guess for argument sake I am bi courious, sex is an animal instinck . Good luck all
Josephine

[suchacutie]

just as many above,

born male, Tina definitely identifies as a female, but neither of us are interested in guys. In fact we're only interested in one woman :)...

34 years in a few days :) and she's still mighty interesting!!!!

tina

[eleventhdr]

I only like girls as friends and sexually as well.

So much so that I want to become female.

Sure do have male friends but not sexually if you know what i mean.

I guess that makes me lesbian female because i desire to love only women and to be with them sexually except to become pregnat i really do not desire males at all they are interesting to be sure but females are where it is at so I wnat to be female and enjoy being with my own sex which i am already inside. just want to bust out and be myself inside and out and that is female.

Suzy!

[Sylviaqwerty]

I am what you see, Me

[Chelseaswpa]

Okay lets see- i think i am more confused than ever now :) Just kidding - I like men - well other gurls actually, have always been attracted to male genitalia much more than female, so that makes me a gay CD i guess. But most men kind of gross me out (I dislike body hair very much)- other CDs and TGs are much more to my liking. I would never want to completely transition, but boob would be great :) Just my crazy ramblings!

[Joy Carter]

I love women exclusively. I would however if transitioned, take the new model for a test drive if you know what I mean.

[RobertaFermina]

labels are boxes, I opt out!

If someone I want needs me in a box, I pass. When I need me in a box, I have to ask myself what I am afraid of.

Life is too amazing and surprising and delicious for confinement, and not even the prettiest bow can make it right.

There is already one box waiting for me, anyhow....when the time comes, I'll fit into it just fine. No need for practice.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Josie06]

With the recent high profile admissions about being transgendered, MSN Homepage ran an article discussing the topic of Sexual Identity and how it is unrelated to Sexual Orientaion. I completely agree that they are not connected, but it started me thinking.....

There are six probable ways to combine our sexual identities and our sexual orientations (12 if we include women). I know there is alot of gray area here but work with me.

BORN IDENTITY ORIENTATION
Male Male Straight
Male Male Bi
Male Male Gay
Male Female Straight (likes men)
Male Female Bi
Male Female Gay (likes women)

It is this last pairing that has me thinking. Do you know anyone, or do you, identify as being Transgendered but also gay?

This chart is very interesting, I've not seen it before. Readings in the past I think have been not do forthright. Many before have thought or make you think that being born Male but identifying as Female and "desiring men" meant gay. I'm glad to see another interpretation. I have always been female even though being born male and have always "desired" men :blushing:... though I lived the life expected of me and married a woman (because of the plumbing) and not acted on my desires.

[gennee]

I am cross dresser (prefer transvestite), transgender, have some androgyne qualities, and a queer bent when the gender is fluid. Figure that out.

Gennee

:D