The wretched agony

[battybattybats]

I have spent hours, long hours in a protracted argument with my girlfriend.
I don't know how I can go on any longer. It is all so meaningless, so pointless. Her arguments are circular, self refferential, illogical. Not one piece of logic, my thoughts, feelings or evidence is accepted by her. I can't convince someone who won't even consider that they could be wrong. I am accused of 'looking into it too much' 'going too far (with my reasoning)' and then I'm called 'disgusting', 'selfish' or that I 'obviously don't want the relationship'. At one point she even said that all crossdressers should be lined up and shot. She goes on to say that the relationship is the only thing that gives her life any meaning... sigh. She says that I should change, that it is my fault that I say I can't because I don't want to and don't see anything wrong with it. She refuses to accept the posibility that she could change any of her opinions, come to accept my desires, live without the relationship or that proffessional help could help her in any way.

I have been trying to tell her for years now that I cannot keep restraining my needs. We tried counselling, my psychologist said that I needed to be more assertive, hers said she needed to learn to accept it or move on. Then she went to a social worker who apperently agrees with her and says that I should be able to change for her while the couple counseller we saw said that while I seem both unable and unwilling to change and she refuses to acknowledge the possibility that she could then she can't help and suggested we go see someone else who would more likely know more about the subject.. but my girlfriend since has said that the social worker thinks seeing them is a bad idea as because they are gay they may be biased so we should see get another refferral from my doctor for yet someone else.

I really care about her, I don't want her to go through this pain but I can't have all her pains rule me.. and its not just crossdressing where this keeps happening.

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.

I'm thinking of calling the police and telling them after she goes to work tomorrow morning.
So I feel an intense agony in my guts. Collosal fear. Massive self-doubt and a lot of guilt. I can't think at all clearly but I just don't see how I could do anything else.

[O2B Barbara]

Horrible situation for you to be in. I truly feel your pain as I have been in a similar situation myself. I once loved a person very completely, however when I realized that she would not be able to change her drinking problem I had to move on with my life. I am not able to change anyone but myself. I have a great life, she has a major problem with alcohol. I am happy with who I am and have a wonderfull wife that is the world to me. Tough decision for you to make. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we want them to. No guilt in that.

As for her threat of taking an OD, do you think she is serious or just blowing steam off? If you think she is serious at all, you need to call someone and help her be safe to herself. If you don't and she does you would have to live with that for the rest of your life.

Hugs,

[Wendy me]

[QUOTE=battybattybats;887176]

I really care about her, I don't want her to go through this pain but I can't have all her pains rule me.. and its not just crossdressing where this keeps happening.


i read your post and this struck me ... I really care about her, sounds like you have tried to get past it but might the best tool be missing just a bit???? love no were did you say love perhaps that might be better than the fear or splitting up and thoughts of some thing horrible to happen should it not work out....

[CaptLex]

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.
Sorry about your situation, Bats. This part of your post bothers me. It's manipulation, plain and simple. Whether she intends to go through with it or not, it sounds to me that she's trying to guilt you into giving in to her. That's a lot to put on someone else, and it's selfish. If she needs professional help, she should get it, but either way, that no good reason to give in to anyone. Where's the love? Just my :2c:

[battybattybats]

I think my altruistic love for her has been my enemy.. sigh, it has made me put up with things I'd not accept from anyone else.

[Robin Leigh]

I have spent hours, long hours in a protracted argument with my girlfriend.
I don't know how I can go on any longer. It is all so meaningless, so pointless. Her arguments are circular, self refferential, illogical. Not one piece of logic, my thoughts, feelings or evidence is accepted by her. I can't convince someone who won't even consider that they could be wrong.

At one point she even said that all crossdressers should be lined up and shot.A person who makes such statements will never accept CDing. And will never accept you enough to really love you.


I really care about her, I don't want her to go through this pain but I can't have all her pains rule me.. and its not just crossdressing where this keeps happening.

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.This is emotional blackmail. :( Do any of the councillors, therapists, etc, know that she's threatened suicide over this?


I'm thinking of calling the police and telling them after she goes to work tomorrow morning.I suggest getting medical help before involving the police. Get in touch with the nearest mental health facility. They must respond to cases of attempted suicide.


So I feel an intense agony in my guts. Collosal fear. Massive self-doubt and a lot of guilt. I can't think at all clearly but I just don't see how I could do anything else.It's horrible. I know. She is bullying you. No matter what happens, you must leave this relationship. It is not healthy for either of you.

:hugs:

Robin

[marie354]

I'm sorry about your situation, but people change all the time.
You might want to try not dressing for a while and see if she cools down a bit, and then bring the things up later, one at a time, and see if you can work out some kind of compromise.

You need to think things through for yourself and try to assure her that things can change for the better if you work at it.

No relationship, no matter how it looks on the outside, works perfectly. There are always compromises or agreements between both parties that each can live with.
:hugs:

[Lovely Rita]

Batty
I am so sorry to hear this. I would not even begin to give you advice on this dangerous matter. Can you speak with a professional regarding your girlfriend and get the best advice on what action to take. Maybe the person who counselled you both?
So sorry

[uknowhoo]

I am so so sorry, Bats to hear of this terrible situation you're in. My wife suffers from depression and anxiety, and I understand how incredibly difficult it is trying to deal rationally (often more of a guy thingy) and effectively with someone who's not capable of doing the same. Among the most important things to keep in mind is you are responsible for your actions, and she for hers. I agree with the Capt, don't let her do that to you. It's emotional abuse, plain n simple. It's not fair to you, or to her either really. Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, and of course, I don't know enough about your situation to make such a determination, but it just seems to me putting an end to this and gettin on with your life would probably serve you best in the long run. Good luck, sweetie. xoxo Tammi

[battybattybats]

Yes all the counsellers know that she has threatened suicide and all spoke about how she needed to work on her self value etc. All also repeatedly told me that I can't be responsible for her actions. She doesn't appear to have listened.

Can the medical services take her in against her will? I'm 100% certain she wouldn't go willingly.

I've barely dressed in the last 4 years after she told me she had a problem with it. I tried giving it up, it didn't work but since I have tried to tell her that, she said that she could not tolerate it at all and would kill herself if we ever broke up.. years of trying to get that catch 22 to change haven't worked. She won't listen to any assurance, she has a fatalistic pessimistic point of view and is 100% certain that she is right :(

[Lovely Rita]

Batty, it sounds like a very tough situation. I will keep you in my prayers.
Again so very sorry.

[Kate Simmons]

I think you are a real trooper Batty, given the situation. I do think she has other issues though besides CDing. We can't always have things totally our way all the time, no matter who we are. Life just isn't that simple. I do wish you well and hope things work out for you.:hugs:

[battybattybats]

Thanks for your concerns everyone. She is now, as far as I know, asleep. At least she has stopped calling the housephone from her mobile then hanging up. I don't know if I should sleep on the couch or try to avoid sleep alltogether till she heads off to work at 5 in the morning (it's half past midnight here now).

[TxKimberly]

I don't have the foggiest idea where I would go at this point if I were you.
Obviously, this IS blackmail of a sort, and yet it is from someone you obviously care about, so the "typical" responses to blackmail may not apply. So I can't offer and answers, but maybe it will help to clarify the problems.
1 - She has threatened suicide. Not that I have personally seen this a lot, but the times I HAVE encountered it, those that threaten to commit suicide rarely make a serious attempt at it.
2 - Your relationship and CDing. If you wont/can't change and she wont/can't tolerate the way you are, and you two can't reach some sort of compromise, then this seems to leave very little room between the rock and hard space. Have you considered a compromise with her? Something along the lines of you don't do it around her, and she doesn't give you hell for doing it when your not together?

Personally? I have no trouble understanding a woman saying "I can't be in a relationship with a cross dresser". I think most of us that are willing to look at it objectively can at least understand why a woman might feel that way. But a woman who uses the threat of suicide to get what she wants would scare the hell outta me. I think I would have to seriously consider running as far from her as possible and as fast as possible.

Kim

[Robin Leigh]

Can the medical services take her in against her will? I'm 100% certain she wouldn't go willingly.
Tricky. She has to be in the act, not just talking about it. When they arrive, she can deny it if it's only words without actions. Emergency departments have to deal with lots of attention-seeking "fake" suicide calls.


I've barely dressed in the last 4 years after she told me she had a problem with it. I tried giving it up, it didn't work but since I have tried to tell her that, she said that she could not tolerate it at all and would kill herself if we ever broke up..You've done your best to minimize it, but she still can't accept it. You can't salvage this situation, especially with the suicide threats hanging over you. Get out ASAP. These scenarios just keep getting worse, IME.

If you think she'll be safe, I suggest sleeping on the coach. If you can. Best to have a clear head in the morning.

If you can't sleep, I can keep chatting. I slept most of the day. :D

:bighug: :hugs:

Robin

[battybattybats]

Have you considered a compromise with her? Something along the lines of you don't do it around her, and she doesn't give you hell for doing it when your not together?


Whenever I, or any of the counsellers have suggested things like this she says that doing it in front of her is unacceptable (and that's fair enough and perfectly understandable) but doing it when she is not around is "doing it behind my back and that is deceptive and I can't allow it". Whenever I pointed out that if she knew I was doing it but didn't witness it then it wouldn't be deceptive she responded by saying that knowing I was or might be doing it was just as bad as doing it in front of her and she could not compromise.

Her idea of compromise is me finding something else that doesn't cross her 'boundaries' that will somehow fill my need for crossdressing and that I should be able to work out what this mysterious alternative could be. Pointing out that others have tried and failed to find this sort of alternative and that most, maybe all, who try and quit eventually return to it I get 'but you're not other people' and 'why can't you be the first' kinds of responses.. sigh.

I'll try and sleep eventually I think. Not for a while though.

[sandra-leigh]

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.


I suggest that you call a local suicide crisis line yourself; the people on those lines are trained to know how to react in these kinds of situations. You do not need to be thinking of suicide yourself to call: they should be willing to help you cope with suicide threats from those around you.

[sandra-leigh]

1 - She has threatened suicide. Not that I have personally seen this a lot, but the times I HAVE encountered it, those that threaten to commit suicide rarely make a serious attempt at it.


20-ish years ago, I had a GF who threatened suicide several times. The attempts that she made might not have been "serious" (that is, she might not really have wanted to die, just to manipulate or get attention), but they were none the less truly life threatening. She might have arranged them so that she would likely get caught, but she went through with them -- and who knows, that might have been the day when the other people she knew had become stuck in traffic or had encountered long grocery-store lines or missed the bus and ended up walking, etc.. Any of the possibly-not-serious attempts could have ended up succeeding due to circumstances.

I regret to say that that GF just totally burned out the love I had for her. Other girlfriends I had or were seriously interested in, I still think of from time to time and wonder how they are and hope they are doing well and would be happy to meet again and talk about old times and about life -- but the GF I am referring to, I now just roll my eyes on, shake my head about her ruined life (and the lives of those around her whom she has sucked in to her lifestyle of incompetence), and if I did have anything to say to her, it might come out like "You've really made a crock of it, haven't you?". It took me years to get over her, and I consider my emotions to still be partly burned out by the experience.

Sometimes, caring just isn't enough. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, who will sabotage attempts to help, and you can seriously burn yourself out trying to cope.

[Melanie R]

There is only one solution to this situation. Your girlfriend needs to move on. If you continue the relationship, then your life will continue to be miserable. If she did not have a problem with the sressing it would be something else that bothered her. She is a loser you do not need. Move on and do not look back.

[MJ]

well bat you know sometimes it's better to understand some woman will never get it or understand why you / we do what we do .. sometimes it better to say good bye and move on... this I'll OD myself stuff scares me but for your health please move on

[brenya]

leave her ass, sorry I'm cynical today

[sobe1ove GG]

I'd like to draw everyone's attention to this quote:


...while the couple counseller we saw said that while I seem both unable and unwilling to change and she refuses to acknowledge the possibility that she could then she can't help...

You are doing exactly what she's doing. You are unwilling to change, yet you expect her to? That's unfair to her. She may be lame for threatening to commit suicide and you should probably break up anyway, but I think it's lame to criticize her for not changing when you refuse to as well.

This is a problem that I'm having with my boyfriend and with the crossdressing community in general. I, as the GG SO, am expected to just like everything and do all the changing. I am the one that has to do the soul searching. And if I don't? Than I'm an unaccepting bitch and there was nothing ever wrong with the CDer.

I will never think it's okay that the CDer can introduce something so life chaning and relationship changing and I have NO say in it. I just have to like it or leave. He 'can't' change or hold back. I'M the one who has to.

How is that fair?

Sobe

[brenya]

is it really changing yourself to simply accept how somebody else is? this is why my next relationship is going to be 100% honest from the get go "this is who I am" I see so many people on here who are just so unhappy with their current relationship, I don't want to be unhappy like that, feeling like I need permission to be who I am, I NEED A SMOKE

[Alice B]

Well Batt, that is really a mess and one you need to distance yourself from as soon as possible. There appears to be little core feelings and value in the relationship and in my opinion the threat of taking ones life is not valid, but a form of blackmail. And that is not any kind of footing to keep a relationship alive. Move on. It may be tough, but in short order you will be a lot happier. There is someone out there that will accept you for who and what you are and when you find that person you will find true love.:hugs:

[Caroline]

Batty,

There is much that could be said in response to your post, but suffice to say that I think you should simply move on immediately and learn to live without your girl-friend.

But whatever you decide to do, please do not feel guilty if she goes through with her threat to commit suicide, for that would be doing exactly what she hopes for, and it would be completely wrong - though understandable - for you to feel that it was somehow your fault, when it isn't.

All the best.

[Caroline]

I'd like to draw everyone's attention to this quote:

...while the couple counseller we saw said that while I seem both unable and unwilling to change and she refuses to acknowledge the possibility that she could then she can't help...


You are doing exactly what she's doing. You are unwilling to change, yet you expect her to? That's unfair to her. She may be lame for threatening to commit suicide and you should probably break up anyway, but I think it's lame to criticize her for not changing when you refuse to as well.

This is a problem that I'm having with my boyfriend and with the crossdressing community in general. I, as the GG SO, am expected to just like everything and do all the changing. I am the one that has to do the soul searching. And if I don't? Than I'm an unaccepting bitch and there was nothing ever wrong with the CDer.

I will never think it's okay that the CDer can introduce something so life chaning and relationship changing and I have NO say in it. I just have to like it or leave. He 'can't' change or hold back. I'M the one who has to.

How is that fair?

Sobe

OK, so you've drawn my attention to it, but it doesn't say what you imply it does, nor does it have relevance, per se, for your own relationship with your boyfriend, since Batty's case is not yours and neither has he stated all the details of his circumstances, or of what the various counsellors/therapist said.

Furthermore, no counsellor worth their salt would state baldly that Batty was "...unable and unwilling to change...", since if someone is unable to change then it is meaningless, hurtful and unprofessional to accuse them of being unwilling to do so. What was probably said was that Batty was unable to change certain behaviours (because the counsellor thought that he was unable to do so) and unwilling to change others (which the counsellor thought were within his power) - but one of the most obvious things that Batty could have done is simply to leave his girl-friend and move on with his own life, but he is clearly unwilling to do so.

I suggest, therefore, that trying to make Batty's case fit your own circumstances is misplaced and unfair of you.

From the information given, Batty does not warrant being attacked by you, an attack which is primarily motivated by your own obvious dissatisfaction regarding your own relationship and which has nothing to do with Batty's
circumstances.

Having said that, if you do wish to air your own grievances regarding your own unhappy relationship, please feel free to do so in another thread, but don't subvert Batty's plea for help by doing so here.

I would also add that from the few details you have given regarding your own situation that you do have valid grounds for complaint, and that I would be happy to offer such support as I can should you decide to take the issue further.

[sandra-leigh]

You are doing exactly what she's doing. You are unwilling to change, yet you expect her to? That's unfair to her.

Johnny: "Give me all of the cake!"
Tommy: "No, we should split it, we should each get half of the cake."
Nearby adult: "Tommy, you should compromise! Give Jonny three quarters of the cake!"


Sobe, did you miss Batty's posting that said,


I've barely dressed in the last 4 years after she told me she had a problem with it. I tried giving it up, it didn't work.

It's not like Batty is lounging around the house in a too-short miniskirt and a tube top, a beer and a cigarette and a belly rolling down: Batty has put a lot of effort into this, but it is too strong for Batty to overcome. Batty isn't self-indulgently choosing to be this way.

I haven't followed your posts, Sobe, nor (that I know of) read anything from your SO, so I have no idea to what extent your SO needs dressing in his life. You might perhaps perceive that your SO is being selfish or unreasonable or whatever, but you cannot project from your own situation over to Batty's situation.

[sobe1ove GG]

Am I not entitled to my own opinion? If that's the case, then I was unaware. Should I just stick to the private GG forums, then?

I thought perhaps a view from a GG SO would do this thread some good. After all, we are only hearing Batty's biased side to begin with.

And, heaven forbid I draw upon my own experiences to answer the original post. Am I not allowed to do that as well?

I didn't attack batty. I merely responded to a piece of his post that said he was unwilling to change, yet he expected his SO to. My post WAS relevant to the OP.

Perhaps there should be a disclaimer at the beginning of threads if people only want to hear things that will make them happy?

Sobe

[sandra-leigh]

I didn't attack batty. I merely responded to a piece of his post that said he was unwilling to change, yet he expected his SO to. My post WAS relevant to the OP.


As Batty cannot reasonably say everything relevant in one post, that line needs to be read in connection with Batty's other posting indicating that Batty tried for four years to give up dressing. The implication of that is that Batty was willing to change, but turned out not to be able to.

[sobe1ove GG]

As Batty cannot reasonably say everything relevant in one post, that line needs to be read in connection with Batty's other posting indicating that Batty tried for four years to give up dressing. The implication of that is that Batty was willing to change, but turned out not to be able to.

I concede that point.

[sandra-leigh]

I thought perhaps a view from a GG SO would do this thread some good. After all, we are only hearing Batty's biased side to begin with.


Sobe, I've "been there, done that, got the emotional scars" (except my situation had nothing to do with dressing, as I wasn't CD then.) My personal assessment is that what Batty has written is quite consistant with a situation such as Batty describes, that the little details here and there tell of authenticity rather than of invention. I believe the situation is substantially as Batty has presented it. My ex-GF did attempt suicide at least four times in the years after we broke up (though not because of the breakup; she'd already moved on to someone else.) Thus, Batty's view might perhaps be "biased" in the same sense that anyone's view is "biased", but my own experiences are sufficient to validate the situation to my satisfaction.

The remainder of your points deal substantially with the question of whether someone can change from being a crossdresser "if they really want to", or to "keep peace in the family". The answer for that is going to depend upon the person. For some people, cross-dressing is a light hobby of importance on par with having a yearly Christmas-time fine brandy and cigar; for others, it is much much more strongly rooted. If you look back over some of the threads, you will find In Memorium's for some of the ex-members here who committed suicide because they couldn't be who they needed to be. Now, you might feel that suicide is merely "the ultimate act of selfishness", but the point is that that there are those for whom not being able to dress is a misery of minute-by-minute torture; expecting such people to give up that part of themselves because others can't accept them might be idealistic but it isn't realistic.

[sobe1ove GG]

The remainder of your points deal substantially with the question of whether someone can change from being a crossdresser "if they really want to", or to "keep peace in the family".

Hmm. I don't beleive I said that. In fact, that is not what I believe at all. I don't insist that, for example, my bf stop being a cross dresser. That's what he is and I accept him. There are lot of other kinds of change. I would never want him to stop being himself, but rather, stop doing some of the things he does. That's all. We should both be compromising, not just me. And this isn't just about me and my situation because I see this constantly on these boards. Men aren't willing to compromise and think that SOs are terrible people if they have a problem with it.

Now, we should probably get back to the original post...

[Bella Amazonia]

I don't have the foggiest idea where I would go at this point if I were you.
...
1 - She has threatened suicide. Not that I have personally seen this a lot, but the times I HAVE encountered it, those that threaten to commit suicide rarely make a serious attempt at it.

Kim

Actually, statistics show people who threaten suicide are much more likely to commit suicide than the general population - however; a person might threaten suicide many, many times before actually attempting it, so the likelihood of any one particular suicide threat might not be very high.

Also, women are more likely to make suicide threats and not carry them out, whereas men often will not reach out in any way to seek help and will just make the attempt.

[Ziabotsu]

I've attempted to explain everything to my past girlfriend. But when I blurted out to her 'I'm a tranny-' she ran out and I never saw her again. She blocked my phone number and my email address, and she had a peep hole in her door. GOD. Though women are always different and women sometimes even help the men dress up. If they're one of the women who can't put up with this and cause arguements 24/7, dump her. You'd be better off without her.

[Annette_boy]

Dear batty
If I understand what you have said her behavior is now borderindg on criminal harssment change phone numbers and locks and bail upt for your own sanity even social workers have prejudices and your "lady" is un able to change cut tour losses and move on and if harassment continues get a protective order
Love and hugs
Annette

[Caroline]

Am I not entitled to my own opinion? If that's the case, then I was unaware. Should I just stick to the private GG forums, then?

So now you resort to special pleading, wanting to express your opinion but denying me expressing mine, huh?


I thought perhaps a view from a GG SO would do this thread some good. After all, we are only hearing Batty's biased side to begin with.

Your prejudices are showing, since you accuse Batty of bias without being able to substantiate your claim, whilst exhibiting bias of your own.


And, heaven forbid I draw upon my own experiences to answer the original post. Am I not allowed to do that as well?

More special pleading, since all any of us are doing is drawing upon our own experiences, yet you deny us the right to do so .


I didn't attack batty. I merely responded to a piece of his post that said he was unwilling to change, yet he expected his SO to. My post WAS relevant to the OP.

I must have missed that, so please show us where Batty said that he wasn't willing to change? And don't please reiterate your original comment without reading my response to it.


Perhaps there should be a disclaimer at the beginning of threads if people only want to hear things that will make them happy?

Sobe

Stop being so snide and pathetic. Your accusations are wrong and you know it.

[kerrianna]

I'm so sorry you are going through this Batty. :hugs::hugs::hugs:

In the first place if you think she is serious about the OD then maybe you should show her how seriously you care by calling in intervention.

If she's not serious and is using it as a 'bargaining' device :rolleyes: that's not fair to you. How are you expected to deal with that in any way? Suicide and suicide threats are beyond the coping skills of most of us.

My first GF was very similar and had me constantly in a state of stress worrying about her safety. Like Tess, I had my emotions just fried by those 5 years, and even though I have affection for her today and we occasionally talk (she's much healthier now) I can't believe looking back at what I put up with in the name of love. I still haven't completely recovered from having my open trust and love burned so deeply and completely in that relationship. Only now do I realize how unfair it was to me. I thought I was being a hero or something, that showing her undying love would save her. Turns out only she could do that.

And that had nothing to do with my CDng which she knew about but at the time that wasn't a big part of my life. (heard later that she considered me somewhat perverted :p )

Your GF will do what she thinks she has to do for herself. You sound like you've reached that point for yourself. Her threats to keep you together are something you will ultimately have to leave in her hands. Hopefully she won't follow through, but if she does attempt to IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF YOU. It's her solution. If you cave in to her it will never work. The resentment you will hold will destroy your relationship one day. It won't go away because either one of you wants it to.

I wish you guys could talk it out some more, but it sounds like you've gone through the ringer. Too bad the couples counselling didn't work out. It sounds to me like the CDing is just an issue in a broader power struggle.

I wish I could help you more. Unfortunately it just sounds messy and painful and if she's using OD threats as a form of communication, I don't know where you can go from there. You both need to be working TOGETHER on this and it doesn't sound too together right now.

Maybe you should talk to that wonderful social worker of hers and tell them what she threatened to do. :raisedeyebrow:

I hope it works out for you and for her too. Take care hon. :hugs:

[kerrianna]

So now you resort to special pleading, wanting to express your opinion but denying me expressing mine, huh?



Your prejudices are showing, since you accuse Batty of bias without being able to substantiate your claim, whilst exhibiting bias of your own.



More special pleading, since all any of us are doing is drawing upon our own experiences, yet you deny us the right to do so .



I must have missed that, so please show us where Batty said that he wasn't willing to change? And don't please reiterate your original comment without reading my response to it.



Stop being so snide and pathetic. Your accusations are wrong and you know it.

Can you guys please quit this and let this thread be about Batty and her problem right now?

[Fab Karen]

Sorry to hear that. She's got major issues that go way beyond the subject of accepting any part of you being a CD. It sounds like she can't see her actions are pushing you away. She definitely needs professional help. It seems like ending the relationship is probably best for both of you.

[O2B Barbara]

Really a hard place to be for you. Possibly have a joint session with a counseler adn discuss a parting of the ways. May not be the best but at least you have a professional to help you both, as well as a witness to her reaction. At this point you may need to step back and look to your needs, you are no help to her, or yourself, in this condition.

Prayers and hugs,

[EricaCD]

I'm so sorry to hear it has gone so poorly. Our thoughts are with you.

Erica

[Toyah]

To my mind the problem is the conselers all they want is your money have you tried talking to her ???? I mean really talk because if you cannot give up and stop wasting your money on these vultures

[Seville]

An ugly situation, indeed!

Hope everything works out for you, Hun.

[Robin Leigh]

You are doing exactly what she's doing. You are unwilling to change, yet you expect her to? That's unfair to her. She may be lame for threatening to commit suicide and you should probably break up anyway, but I think it's lame to criticize her for not changing when you refuse to as well.

This is a problem that I'm having with my boyfriend and with the crossdressing community in general. I, as the GG SO, am expected to just like everything and do all the changing. I am the one that has to do the soul searching. And if I don't? Than I'm an unaccepting bitch and there was nothing ever wrong with the CDer.

No Sobe, Bats is not doing exactly what his gf is doing. Bats has done everything in his power to please this women, but it hasn't worked. She is quite unwilling to change at all, or to have rational discussion. Her expectations are unrealistic & irrational, IMHO.

I've read most of Bats's posts since he joined the forum, and spent hours last night exchanging PMs, so I think I understand his situation well enough to make these comments on his behalf.

Bats was honest up-front: his gf knew about the CDing from the very beginning. Bats thought he would lose the desire to dress once he was in a stable relationship. But that didn't happen...

His gf will not him let him dress in her presence. But she won't let him dress "behind her back", either. She believes all CDers should be lined up & shot.

She accuses him & a mutual friend of infidelity, even though their liason occurred before Bats & his gf started going out. That's irrational!

I hope this has clarified Bats's situation a little.

:hugs:

Robin

[Kitty Sue]

More issues here than just Cding that's for sure. I wish you and her all the best whether you remain together or not.

[Caroline]

Can you guys please quit this and let this thread be about Batty and her problem right now?

Apologies if I have transgressed in some unknown way, Kerriana, but my original post did deal with Batty and his problems directly. In a nutshell, I believed his best way forward was to come to terms with the fact that there is no future for him and his girlfriend, and that he should move on. I also pointed out that if she carried out her threat to commit suicide, that Batty should not consider himself at fault or feel guilty about it. Admittedly my post was brief, but I saw no point in labouring the issue.

My subsequent post dealt with Batty and his problems indirectly, since it politely refuted the unfounded accusation made by another party who was clearly attacking Batty - and what's more that it was obvious from those attacks that they were promulgated by that poster's own situation and not by what Batty had said or done. In other words, I was defending Batty from an unwarranted criticism and attack, and trying to help him in his difficult situation. Subsequently' that third party posted an attack directed at those of us who had corrected her unsubstantiated attack on Batty, and implied that we were only taking his side rather than hers because we did not want to hear the truth - that the poster maintained that Batty and the rest of us were wrong!

I responded to that because he criticism of Batty is unwarranted, and would only serve to make him feel worse in what is already a difficult situation for him.(Also, the attack on those of us who had not distorted Batty's words, unlike the GG poster in question, merited a response in it's own right). In speaking up on Batty's behalf, I was not only trying to help him, but trying to redress the wrong and misplaced criticism that another person had heaped on him and the rest of us. If you, Kerriana, do not see that as part of dealing with Batty's problem, then your view of the world is somewhat blinkered.

In conclusion, I will reiterate my advice to Batty. Forget all the ins and outs - which we could discuss forever, in any event - move on and leave your girlfriend to her own devices. The separation will be painful, but less so that staying in such an unsatisfactory relationship will prove to be. If your girlfriend commits suicide, then that is her choice - you are not responsible, and neither should you feel guilty (that is, after all, the feelings she is trying to engender in you).

All the best, mate.

[Tammy_j]

Dear Batty, i have no idea what i can say to your situation. i do sincerely think you have come to the right place for advice though. relationships can be so
complicated sometimes (wow that's an understatement). does your gf know that cd is just dressing? i think you should seriously talk to her about the suicide
threat (even though it is emotional blackmail). my warmest regards for both of you.

Love,
Tammy

[TerriM]

I have been married 35 yrs. My wife has known about my femme side 25yrs. She still wants no part of it. It took me a long time to realize that she will never accept that part of me. I know she loves me and I love her. I have tried to find that balance in my life in where both parts of me can exist. Its no easy task. If you two get back together you will have to find your own level of balance.
As far as your girlfriend's suicide threat, I would definetly tell her counsler if she has one or someone who can help her.

Yours Terri

[sandra-leigh]

I've read most of Bats's posts since he joined the forum, and spent hours last night exchanging PMs, so I think I understand his situation well enough to make these comments on his behalf.


Oh my, I didn't recognize the username, but when I went back and looked, I sure recognized one of the prior threads. What Batty has been through before is nearly surreal :(

[Kimberly]

Sorry to hear about all this. I don't really know what to add. xx

[cocopuff's girl GG]

Sorry to hear about this situation you are in. My thought's is that you need to get out of the relationship, perhaps just take a breather if nothing else. It sounds very unhealthy especially since you mentioned that it's not just the CD that causes these long arguments and suicidal idea's of her's. She definetly needs some help. As a former councelor for 8 years in a alcohol and drug rehab facility I know here in the states you can have someone committed against their will if you feel they can bring harm to their self or other's. They will keep her in a locked facility for 48 to 72 hours and evaluate her. Try and remeber things she has told you about her suicidal thought's... Does she have a plan as to how she wants to do this? You mentioned a overdose. Make notes and write down the day and the hour she says these things. How often does she threaten this?? Is she under the influence of anything? Drugs, alcohol when she makes these statements? Mainly what you can do now is watch her and if you really are afraid that she tends to carry out these threats call law enforcement right away. These are just my thought considering I don't know the whole story neither do I know the laws of where you are. I wish you well and I hope I have helped in some small way. :love:

[battybattybats]

Regarding my being 'unwilling' to change... When explaining to the counseller that I wasn't able to change and that every bit of evidence I could find said that such change was just plain impossible my GF blurted out 'but you don't want to change' in a very accusatory tone. I responded 'Why should I want to change? There is nothing morally or ethically wrong with it except your problem with it. If there was a magic pill that I could take to make it go away I'd have to think very hard about taking it because even if I could I don't think that it would be right for me to do so.' The counseller was, for the record, ignorant about crossdressing but very open minded about it and was a charity (anglican counselling service even though we're both non-christian) as I'm on disability for my C.F.S. It was not that I was unwilling to compromise my dressing in an ethical way, such as only dressing when she was not around etc it was simply that I did not want to change and did not think that it was right to change. I even said that if it were possible and a reasonable argument was made that it would be right and not wrong to do so then I would.

As to the comment about power struggles... yes there have been a lot of those. I went into the relationship as openly as possible and made clear that the only relationship I could accept was one built on equal rights, financial independance, where neither would have a shred of power over the other or a final say over the others body or actions and where consent was essential and mutual consent was needed for anything that would directly involve both... unfortunatly I'm quite altruistic and when threats of self-harm came in I agreed to temporarily concede to her needs while she got proffessional help so that she could overcome her problems. Getting her to see that help has been a struggle of years and is still not over. On her part she said she was ok with my definition of the way relationships work untill problems arose and then suddenly there were all sorts of arguments about loyalty (not taking her side in an argument with someone else when I thought that she was wrong because of loyalty) and how when something I did upset her I should change to not upset her.. though it seems very one-way.. she says she 'can't change' while for me it's all 'just a choice'.

She has finally got onto antidepressants that seem to be having some positive effects this year. There are no drugs or alcohol involved.

Update:
Very late in the night while I was trying to sleep on the couch she sent me a series of SMS's suggesting I return to bed and that a small compromise might be possible. and as I couldn't get comfortable on the couch I did go to bed. She called sick to work and, later the next day, she started writing a draft of her proposed 'relationship rules' compromise. It's very restrictive though she says it's the best she will ever be able to do, goes against everything she believes in and may be giving more than she will be able to sustain. I'll post this draft deal below.. For the record, the use of pornography is mentioned.. when we started the relationship she knew I liked it and it was only after 6 months into the relationship after she confessed that she thought she might suffer depression that it suddenly became not allowed (again I'd not been looking at it during that time) and that if I ever did again.. the relationship would end and without the relationship she'd have nothing else to live for and would kill herself. A bit of a pattern....
Spelling isn't corrected:

The Rules For Our Relationship
Cross-Dressing and Pornography
To be re assessed 1st December 2007

1. There will be no viewing or involvement in pornographic material of any shape or form be that, Internet, video or magazine no form will be tolerated.
2. Cross-dressing will be restricted to the house, not a public sceptical only a private expression in our home, will involve you and only you. I will also not be involved in this.
3. Cross-dressing will be restricted to no more than once a month. (Perhaps once every 2 months or tri monthly not has a restriction but to keep with the once in a while, I don not want this to become a regular thing Actually I would be more happy to make this a maximum once tri-monthly occurrence)
4. There will be no new purchases of such apparel.
5. You will use only your own apparel, this should be kept in a special place where it is not going to be in my face, where I am not going to be able to see that you have been using it etc.
6. The cross-dressing will ONLY take place in my absence, hence while I am at work. (Which no evidence of this should be left for me to find hence with in an hour of me coming home you should remove any apparel etc. and return to ‘normal’ so the possibility of me returning early I will not find you like ‘that’)
7. I do not want it to be discussed outside any form of counselling, hence I don’t want to come home and have you tell me what a great day you had has a woman for example.
8. I would sooner that it remained non sexual – hence I would not like to have you masturbate while ‘dressed up’ also I would prefer that you kept such ‘fantasy’s’ to yourself.
9. I would like to be able to have some say in your appearance (Only because I think you will get your femineity in other ways and will not need to keep such things a continuous part of you), I don’t want your nails getting to long, I would prefer you did not paint your toenails!! And I would like you to keep your hair at a reasonable length. (The hair thing is a lot for you actually…)
10. If/when we have children I do not wish for them to witness you preforming these actions either.

(This is only a draft and there is some room for discussion etc. before the rules are set in-force) I don’t want to know about it, I don’t want to live this double life or this lie, but I love you and I am willing to put these rules into practice for a trial period.


So... an interesting development. Being a person for whom freedom of speech/expression is one of my 'core values' any restriction is too much and to agree with this is to again go against my values and beliefs but... I understand that some restrictions are an acceptable short-term compromise to give her a chance of coping.. yet I can't accuratly predict that she can even maintain this let alone improve. Also this might lessen a little of my need to dress but I don't see how it'll solve some of the other key problems in the relationship....

[sobe1ove GG]

Yeah, that's too restrictive. Even as a GG SO who has some issues (minor), I think that is appallingly restrictive.

[Leah B]

Wow, Batty, What an awful situation. For brevity's sake: Dump her.

[TxKimberly]

Folks,

It's not often that I read posts and get angry, but this thread has done it. Someone came here seeking help and advice and people took this chance to sharpen their own axes.

In my opinion, Batty might be helped by hearing the honest opinion of a GG who appears to share some of his girl friends attitudes. Sobe1ove did not attack Batty, but a few folks sure as heck attacked her for offering her insights.
Relax people, we are al on the same team here, including Sobe1ove who is married to one of us, and obviously does care enough to be here.

Kim

[Stephenie S]

Dear Batty,

I don't really want to get involved in the blame game here so even though I do have some opinions about that I will keep them to myself.

However, I think that even though your SO's list of rules is rediculously restrictive, it does represent her attempt to come to some sort of agreement. I would use this as a basis for negotiation. Make a counter offer of your own. Don't be completely negative about her offer. She does seem to be trying to come up with a way she can live with this. Saying you can't compromise at all will shut down any chance at an agreement in the future. Negotiate, hon. Work on this if you want to stay with her. Most successful relationships have some element of compromise and "give and take" within them.

Of course if you don't want to continue, just let her go, the sooner the better. Don't alow yourself to be held hostage by another person's threat to harm themselves. You can only control your own behavior. You can never control another's, nor should you try.

Stephenie

[battybattybats]

sobe1ove GG and I have PM'd in a positive and constructive way and I do not feel attacked etc so we can let go of that now :) :hugs: for everyone.

Stephenie S If you are unwilling to give your views publicly, please consider telling them to me in a PM.

I am considering negotiation and am preparing a response draft. Most of those things would be ok in the short-term with some modification but she is sure that's the best she can do... which in the long term just won't do for me at all.

[kerrianna]

sobe1ove GG and I have PM'd in a positive and constructive way and I do not feel attacked etc so we can let go of that now :) :hugs: for everyone.

Stephenie S If you are unwilling to give your views publicly, please consider telling them to me in a PM.

I am considering negotiation and am preparing a response draft. Most of those things would be ok in the short-term with some modification but she is sure that's the best she can do... which in the long term just won't do for me at all.

Absolutely take a shot at making this a back and forth negotiation. I can see in her list there are probably a few things you could live with and a number that seem very restrictive.

So you know yourself what you can concede, what you can't concede and hopefully in between you guys will find common ground.

It's a lot of bloody, painful work...but really that's what most relationships have to have to stay vibrant and healthy.

I'm glad to see you're willing to work at it. Both of you.

Good luck. :hugs:

[Marlena-4now]

Batty,
I know you are goingt through an extremly stressfull and emotional crisis right now. Your girlfriend has orchestrated it that way. I know it's very difficult to think calmly about the future when you are going through something so scary and hard. But......if you could think clearly I believe you would realise that this relationship has NO future. You NEED to express your inner being ....there is no getting around it. Your girlfriend is not willing to even discuss the smallest compromise and she is tring to control you through this blantant threat of suicide and emotional blackmail. She is torturing you. A relationship should be about life and light and seeing the good in each other. This relationship is doomed and you need to DISENGAGE. IS there someone who can stay with her to try and make sure she doesn't harm herself untill she calms down ? Other than you ? You need to pull away ! I wish I could do more to help you through this than just this meager post. I'm tring to send you calming and peacefull vibes via mental telepathy........ Is it working ? ;-)

[battybattybats]

Telepathy eh? Cool. It might be working. Keep at it. Also I have some Xener cards used in Rhine tests.. Which one am I concentrating on as I finish this full stop.

Bit of humour aside. Indeed this is really hard for me as I don't want to choose to end the relationship and I'm not entirely sure why (love is a madness truthfully).

I am pondering what a working compromise would entail and it isn't easy, nor do I think that my GF will agree to anything I consider reasonable. On the other hand I've had enough of being excessively open to fitting in with her.

I want a reasonable compromise that I can live with that will move from perhaps fairly restrictive at first so as to not push her into dealing with anything she can't to something that meets my needs and values. I have been pretty darn patient so far and it hasn't served me to be so. I'm not willing to wait years for tiny progress, I realise she won't be accepting overnight but I don't feel like going for years under her restrictions either.

[Marlena-4now]

Wow, Batty, I just realised you are in the land of OZ. That's some kick ass telepathic waves !

All I can say is your love should make you and her happy. Have you been happy lately. Can you see hapiness on the horison ? You only get one go around on this planet, don't waste yours trying to make yourself into something you are not in an imposible quest to conform to someone elses idea of who you should be.

And definetly don't let me tell you how to live your life either - not that you would.......i'm starting to lose coherence. It's late over here on my side of the globe.

By the way, you are quite a cute Shiela, Batty. I really hope it all works out . It sounds like the immediate crisis may be avoided but if I peer into mu crystal ball I see more of the same in your future.

Stay sane girl !

[kerrianna]

I admire you for wanting to give it your best shot Batty. It does show you truly care.

I still think her giving you a list opens up the possibility of a reply, etc. I hope she can see that is the best chance to make it work.

If she is adamant her list is the one and only, really adamant...well, in labour negotiations that would lead to a strike/lockout/walkout.

You guys are a team. You need to work TOGETHER on this.

If you've pushed your side too far and she doesn't trust you, then you need to work on rebuilding that too. Give her the things you know you can do, esp the things that might be better for you too. (like the porno...it's often an addiction)
Do the little things that show you understand her and want her to be happy, not just the CDing. Find time to talk to her when you both are getting along and keep it small. Don't take on the big pie all at once.

It sounds like you're pretty fried by all this, but want to take at least one good shot at it, so take your time and do so. Don't agree to anything you don't think you can handle, agree to what you know you can or even want to change, and negotiate the rest with truthfullness. One day at a time is the saying and it applies to relationships in a way too, esp when they are overheated.

And in the end trust your heart Batty. It is your life you lead. Just make sure you are as honest as possible with yourself.

[Satrana]

Wow Batty! You must have the patience of a saint. You have sacrificed so much for years and still find yourself at base.

You and I share a similar mindset and view of life and relationships so I fully understand where you are coming from. But since I am not burdened with your emotional involvement in this relationship, let me speak frankly. I can see no happy future for you in this relationship. The type of accommodation and acceptance you seek from her will never materialize. The terms she has listed are not short term but permanent long term controls. This scenario will only foster growing resentment on both sides. Think of the battles ahead when you break the rules or want them re-negotiated. Is this what a loving, trusting relationship with your soul-mate is all about?

I know that you are intelligent and insightful enough to see this for yourself. The question is when and how are you going to gather enough courage to do what is necessary. I have never been in a relationship where my gf has clung on and refused to let go. Fortunately all have been mature enough to agree to end matters when the time came. I have no idea how I could handle breaking up with someone who I have been with for years and who will not let go.

I too am very altruistic and so get sickened in the stomach even thinking of hurting someone else, letting someone else down, thinking I would ruin her life by rejecting her. The mere thought makes me shudder and I am sure I would chicken out and continue to endure the unendurable. I could not even look at myself in the mirror for a long time. But there is nothing heroic about stoically putting up with this type of emotional abuse and intolerance, nothing to be gained from sacrificing everything you stand for.

You have my fullest sympathies and I will hope for a miracle that one day a light will switch on inside her mind about the harm she is inflicting on you and on herself.

[battybattybats]

Thanks Satrana. :hugs:
It is a difficult situation and it is difficult to see things clearly.
The problem isn't courage so much as determination and conviction. I have too much doubt, too much of a conflict between emotions and reason, too much compassion. Too much idealism too.
I don't doubt my values or my goals. It's the method. What course of action is the one to take.

[Victoria Anne]

Baty I am so sorry to hear this but from my own experiences I must takethe role of the b**** hre. This is cold I know but you NEED to leave her, so long as you cannot be yourself you will be unhappy,making consessions will only build recentment. The whole rules bit is just a bad idea. When you truely love someone it is for who they are NOT for who you want them to be. PLEASE think this through carefully , you deserve to be happy, to be yourself. You both will be in my prayers.:hugs:

[Khriss]

.... intolerance is intolerance ...
it's a tough thing, to change closed minds ...especialy when they are so " self justified" eh?? Perhaps if you were mearly a heroin addict ,she might understand ?? likely not !!

[Robin Leigh]

Greetings, Bats!

If this is her idea of love, I don't want to know her definition of hate... :(

I'm sorry if this post seems like I'm attacking & insulting your gf. I'm not. She can't help being the way she is. But your relationship has become so dysfunctional that it isn't good for either of you.

She doesn't really love you, not in the usual sense of the word. True love does not involve threatening the one we love. She is emotionally dependant on you (codependency (http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/codependency.htm)). She is addicted to controlling you. And she doesn't want to be without a boyfriend, because that would be a reduction of social status.

But if you really want to give this one more try, I suggest that you let her know that it's fantastic that she's willing to compromise, but that you feel that you need a short break from one another first. Minimum two weeks. If my feelings about her are correct, she will refuse to have such a break at this time. Her list isn't really an attempt at compromise. It's just a last-ditch measure to try & hold you.

Be brave. Be strong. The best way to help this woman is to leave her.

:hugs::bighug::hugs:

Robin

[O2B Barbara]

Hi Batty,

You have a rough road ahead for sure. There does not seem to be any easy and obivious solution. It sounds like you have been honest and trying to compromise for a long time but not getting any compromise in return. I am fairly certain that her threats of suicide, real or not, are her way of trying to control you. Control and manipulation have no place in a relationship in my book. If this were a friends list of conditions, would you accept them?

As said many times already, trust your heart and intuitions. Hope whatever road you choose it works out for you in the end.

Hugs,

[MsJanessa]

Well Batt, that is really a mess and one you need to distance yourself from as soon as possible. There appears to be little core feelings and value in the relationship and in my opinion the threat of taking ones life is not valid, but a form of blackmail. And that is not any kind of footing to keep a relationship alive. Move on. It may be tough, but in short order you will be a lot happier. There is someone out there that will accept you for who and what you are and when you find that person you will find true love.:hugs:

Hi Bats---a few weeks ago you posted a thread saying that there had been the threat of violence by her against you. Assuming this is the same girlfriend and that she is now threatening to intentionally overdose(OD??) on drugs to try to get you to give up cding, you would do well to remove yourself from the relationship---she obviously doesn't respect you and doesn't want to accept you the way you are---you will never be happy with her and it is indeed time for you to "move on"

[lindsaycd75]

Something I have noticed is this "control". I don't have both sides to work with here but from what I have read so far crossdressing probably is not the real issue. the real issue is that there is something about you she cant seem to control. I have quite a bit of experience with controlling people, so im not just talking out of my rear here. Just to clarify fake suicide attempts, list of demands hang up calls, outburst and threats are some the Classic tools control freaks use to get back what they really want, control. These kind of relationships are very damaging to both people, and have taken many lives, so please be careful. If you want to know how I know these things or what to take more about it pm me and i will give you my real email addy. I worry about how things appearer to be escalating on her part.


Lindsay

[JulieC]

You know, it's easy sitting in the bleacher seats, seeing the score 100-2, bottom of the 9th and thinking "Ok, this game is over".

But really...I'm reading next to nothing that says this relationship is healthy and worth pursuing. Her threat to kill herself is emotional black mail. You're being manipulated. Badly. And have kids with her? No way in hell.

Get out. That's my advice. Don't wonder about negotiating, etc. This should have been over a long time ago. She's *strongly* attempting to control you.

[battybattybats]

Weelll... so far little progress. I have been working on an altered version of her offer but, before she's read a single word, she's already accused me of 'ripping it to shreds'. I'm seriously doubting the effectiveness of anything right now. Still, I'm trying to get a bit of space to think while trying to encourage her to get some better help.

[Satrana]

I presume that means she already knows you could never accept her conditions. So was her list just a stalling tactic or a signal of change?

As far as encouraging her to seek professional help, I would imagine her response might be something like "I am not the one who needs help, you are"

No-one can question your effort here but it all sounds to me like a lost cause. Every day you spend remaining with her is one less day you could be spending with someone who loves the whole you.

[battybattybats]

I think it was a desperate attempt after her OD comment didn't work.

She seemed pretty adamant that the problem would 'go away in time' after I realised that I 'didn't need it'. There has also been an aweful lot of 'your choosing it over me' comments and a refusal to accept that it could be any other way.

I suppose what's hard for me is that we do have a lot of good times. But I can't just give up all that makes me who I am to keep things like that.

[Charleen]

RUN AWAY! Don't walk, RUN!

[Satrana]

Sentimentality is living in the past. You have to stay focused on the future. If she is so adamant she can never accept who you are, and you cannot be someone else by pretending to be a normal guy, then.........

Perhaps the way to approach this is to get her to make the decision, make her face up to a future of never-ending conflict. Is that what she wants because that is what will happen. She has to accept this line of thinking which means she has to decide to end the relationship herself or change her thinking and make major advances in accommodating your needs and accepting you cannot change.

Her belief that you will get over crossdressing is probably based on the fact that you have mostly withheld it for the past few years. Maybe she needs convincing. You should tell her you will now begin crossdressing regularly. This is the reality of your future, does she want to share it with you. The ball should be in her court, not yours.

[sandra-leigh]

I suppose what's hard for me is that we do have a lot of good times. But I can't just give up all that makes me who I am to keep things like that.

A lot of us have, with various degrees of bluntness, advised you to get out ASAP. I understand where those people are coming from, but I don't think that's really the right thing for us to be doing. It's your life, and you who would have to live with the decision; I don't think we should be advising you to definitely get out. I don't mean any insult to anyone who has posted in this thread, but the response has been so strong that it sometimes feels to me as if we are "ganging up on you".

I think what would be better for us to do, rather than advising you to get out, would be to advise you on the probable consequences of staying or not staying. If that sounds useful, Batty, then it might help if you were to say more about the advantages you see to the relationship; that and about what factors you would feel guilty about if you broke it off.


For example, not very many years ago at all, I was Depressed (still recovering); when it was at its peak, there were literally months at a time when I was unable to cook anything more complicated than reheating in the microwave, and even going to the store four houses down was something I couldn't handle more than about twice a week. My wife didn't know what was wrong with me (I didn't either), but she more or less kept me alive during that time. It would have been a lot easier on her to say that she'd had enough and leave. (I never asked her whether she felt that way, but I know I was very short tempered so it couldn't have been easy.) Projecting, I imagine that it wouldn't be easy to leave someone who often seemed to need you just to get by.

[O2B Barbara]

Sometimes things just don't work out, no matter how hard you try or want them. From what you have written, this sounds like one of those times.

Hugs,

[battybattybats]

The update...
Well no-one is dead so that is good :)
I've gotten a bit more space and am trying to work out why I'm putting up with so much of this and how I can try and resolve things.
She still hasn't looked at my version of the compromise proposal and seems as unenthusiastic as ever about seeing anyone else despite my expressing concern that, as she's said she thinks she might be going farther than she can with the (extremely restrictive) compromise suggestions, that she'll need help dealing even with that.
I've had some health troubles (unexplained bruises) that could be stress related in origin and a good radio program today reminded me just how much stress can impact my chronic fatigue syndrome.
Clearly I'll need to ensure change happens and soon, one way or the other. It's not a choice I want to make. I am stuck between leaving someone who I still care for (though those feelings have taken a heck of a beating lately) and who will likely not let go easilly or to try and find a way to reach some sort of understanding with someone who just doesn't seem capable... and by understanding I mean one I can really live with. I've been trying the latter option for a long time now and I seem to have made only the most minute progress.

[featherelizabeth]

these games dont suffice for any kind of intimate relationship.....run while you can, girlie.

[O2B Barbara]

Once you come to a decision I think you will be amazed at the stress that is lifted.

Best of hopes,

[Chantelle CD]

Well Batty, to me it sounds like she is not willing to accept this part of yourself at all, and maybe wants to control you. If you do try to resolve and make it work, with her restrictions, will you resent her for it? if so, that isn't a healthy relationship at all, it will harbor a lot more issues, and hard times. Is the relationship really worth restricting your self and your dressing? I mean would you be happier with her and her restrictions, or alone and able to express yourself as you see fit? Also there is the world of other opportunity's that await you, going threw doors that feel right for you to pass threw. A hard choice, that takes a lot of thinking, i dont want to really have a impact on your choices and the doors you walk threw in life, just saying to try and look ahead into your future, and what is it you see?, can you two come to a understanding that is good for both of you, and harbors no resentment eather way? Are your feelings for her strong enough to suppress your dressing and personality? if the answer to that is a no, its time for the talk and that you dont want to accept that, and should talk about a parting. I would have tried to stop my dressing for my SO, but she knew i couldn't stop, and didn't want me to resent her for her making me stop. Now she helps me with it a lot. Do you think that in time if she gave you SOME freedom with CD'ing, that she may come around and be more and more accepting about it? or is it a lost cause?

I dont envy your position, or the choices you have to make, i do wish for you, strength to make the right one for you. eather way you choose, your alright by me, and I love reading your posts.

Best of luck to you my friend!!

Chantelle

[battybattybats]

Sometimes bad things can have good consequences... recently my girlfriend has sent sms's to a good friend of mine while we've been arguing to 'talk some sense into me'. It's not the first time, she tried it before with a mutual friend but that time it was more to get her some support. Now this friend and I go back 15 odd years!
So when he called to see how I was doing this evening I decided to spill the final can of beans amonsgt the other issues he already knew about. I told him I crossdressed. Well it amounted to that, with lots of umms etc but the meaning was clear. He didn't even sound remotely surprised. Didn't have a problem with it at all.

I am most pleased with myself and the situation!