Identity confusion

[bi_weird]

I’m basically totally lost right now. Can someone tell me what gender is? I honestly have no idea what it means to be male or female. The corollary of that is that I have no idea at the moment what it means to be transgender. I think I got it at some point, but I may have been fooling myself.
I’ve never really understood gender. Didn’t get it back in third grade in shirts vs. skins soccer why I wasn’t allowed on the skins team. Didn’t get why I had to wear dresses when my brothers didn’t. Heck I think I might be bisexual because while I can see sexual differences, when it comes to relating to a person, not a body, I can’t tell the difference. I think it’s like being colorblind.
I feel so very lost. Am I really trans? Maybe I’m just a really feminist type, who hates being told what she can’t do. Maybe I just like boys clothes because girls clothes are horridly uncomfortable and never fit me right. I don’t know what ‘male’, ‘female’, and ‘trans’ mean at the moment (like I said, I thought I had it, but lost it at some point in the recent past) so it’s really hard to know. I don’t know what it’s normal for a girl to feel. A lot of my female friends say they don’t like wearing girls clothes or being treated like a girl, but they don’t identify as trans. I’ve always said that I must be simply because I seek out places like this and information on the subject, and therefore I’m different from my friends who have no need for this. Is that a good enough definition?
Of course, this is made worse by the fact that my life is going through major changes. I graduated a month ago, and one of my two best friends moved away two weeks later. In two weeks my other best friend leaves, and then in a month I go to California, thousands of miles from anything I know. So yeah, I’m very lost at the moment. Anyone got any advice? Or a bottle of vodka? We’re all out here, which is sad indeed.

[Marla S]

Hope it is allowed to jump in from the other side.

I could share a bottle of whisky.

No advice, but I feel that I know what you feel. I feel similar right now.

I think this TG thing is a very slippery ground. I feel like bouncing between all man, all woman, and all me (whatever this precisely is). Quite alone, because there is little orientation.

It's a state of not cis and not trans. Maybe one could it call all-gendered or off-gendered or para-gendered.

Maybe a bit similar to you, I often think that my prob is not that I can't be a woman, but that I can't stand the part that is assigned to men.

Sometimes, despite all this confusion, it is real fun to be me.

I hope you have these moments too and feel better soon.


I share my whisky with you :drink:

[Kate Simmons]

I have a hard time myself sometimes, Hon, so I don't worry about it, go with the flow and and enjoy being who I am and how I feel. Think I'll join you and Marla for that drink.:drink::drink::happy:

[Dasein9]

I’m basically totally lost right now. Can someone tell me what gender is?

I'm writing my dissertation on gender. That means I'm becoming an expert in the subject.

My answer: I don't know. The more I read, the less I find in the way of hard and fast answers to this question.

The best I've come up with so far: It's Jazz. No, really. :D In Jazz, there are instruments, there are notes, there are scales, there are rhythms, there are tonalities, there are themes. But Jazz means everyone's playing their own variations on the themes. Some people's variations sound a lot like other people's variations, and they all kind of harmonise. And then some people do these really far-out things with what they've got, and their variations really stick out of the crowd.

With gender, we've got bodies, chromosomes, hormones, brains that may or may not work differently, clothing, body language, mannerisms, linguistic ability, social roles, expectations, sexual orientation, and a bunch of other things. And some of these elements change over time, too, which makes it even more complex. Most people vary these themes. Single mothers, for instance, take on traditionally masculine roles a lot of the time, even when they're not transgender. Most biological males have some feminine traits. But most people vary the themes in their own ways. And most of them end up with variations that are their own, but also harmonise with one another.

Then there's us. We're the ones whose variations on the themes tend to do new things. Sometimes the rest of the band kicks us out because we're too off-the-wall. But we're also the ones whose innovations are the exciting ones, at least to us.

Does this make any sense at all?

[bi_weird]

Does this make any sense at all?
Yes. Actually it makes a lot of sense. Except I don't know if I'm truely innovative or just trying to sound talented when really I'm not.

[Dasein9]

I suspect that's what a lot of the great jazz musicians wonder too. ;)

[Felix]

Hi Bi, well Hun on a similar note to Das I think we are as deep and as wide as the oceans. Deep because we are complex beings, wide because are personalities are vast. I feel for ya Hun because I am trying to deconstruct this person society has made me and put it together in a way that I can relate and feel totally comfortable with. Hope this has helped a little Hun xx Felix :hugs:

[pocoyo]

Hi Bi... awww I'm really sorry that you're feeling so lost and confused right now *hugs* :hugs:

I think a lot of us have felt similarly so you're not strange or alone!
Er.. I've come to realise lately that I have quite low self esteem sometimes and that I doubt myself a LOT... do u find that at all with yourself?

I think Das' answer was really cool ... "it's jazz" haha. Awesome.

Perhaps you're just really cool and open and tolerant and nice and that's why you can't see gender.

Sorry that you're lost because your friends moved away too, awwwww.
*another hug*

When you go to california then I think you'll have a brilliant time and it will be really exciting for you! And even if it isn't, you can always go home, or to somewhere where you feel more happy. So don't panic... you can do it!

Btw it's normal to feel lost at times like just before a move, or when friends have moved away and with thinking about the nature of yourself... so again, don't panic ... it's normal to feel weird!!

Hmmm... as far as the trans thing... I think it boils down to... just do what makes you feel comfortable and happy!
Hope you are feeling much better soon.
And remember, even when you're lost we are here for you! We can be an anchor!

ps. sorry if that answer doesn't make much sense... I'm a bit bleh after work lol

[kerrianna]

Hi Bi, sorry you're feeling confused right now. This too shall pass. :hugs:

I was reading a book (lol written for teens - well I act like one!) about sexual and gender identity. They use the term GLBTQ with the Q = Questioning.

Questioning is seen as a valid Sexual/Gender ID. I thought that was really cool, because it acknowledges that you can be in a place of searching that is in and of itself a location, if you know what I mean.

I think if we are creative, vital, growing humans, we go through different phases of our lives where we challenge our mindsets, where we discover new things about ourselves and the world, where we experiment and try things. When we stop doing that we essentially stagnate. This process hopefully doesn't stop during your lifetime. I myself have come out of a fairly stagnant period where I thought I knew all about myself, yet my life wasn't very satisfying and I was shutting down instead of embracing life. Now that I'm moving again, I hope I never stop.

I know it's more confusing and sometimes scary to kind of ping pong through life like that, yet it can be done with insight and control and make your life more enriched. Some days you will feel lost, but know that you are never truly lost. You're just exploring...the forest path always comes out in the same place at the end, and we'll all be there together, sharing tales of our life adventures.

:hugs::love:

[ZenFrost]

What Das said. ;-)

Also, there is a term called LGBTIQQ, which stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trangendered/Transexual/Transvestite, Intersex, Queer, and Questioning. Pretty much anything that could be considered a variation on sex, sexuality, or gender is lumped into that massive category. Society seems to clearly label these things under a standard (ie. relationships are between a man and a woman, anyone who is born a man is a man and that's that, etc.) but when you really look at it, sex, sexuality, and gender are all vague concepts. Society as a whole is becoming geared towards androgyny, moreso than 50 years ago for instance. Women wear pants and have jobs, men stay at home and take care of children. 50 years ago that was unheard of.

It's okay to be confused because there are no clear cut definitions any more. Understanding yourself takes time, and it can be very hard to map out on the spectrum of LGBTIQQ. Instead of trying to wrap your head around everything, try to focus just on yourself and know yourself before you try on any labels.

[Pink Person]

Hi BW,

I will give you a brief summary about my opinions of the terms that you used in your post about identity confusion.

Sex, gender and sexual preference are related concepts but not interchangeable ones. Your physical sex (male, female, or intersex) is a formal characteristic. Your gender (masculine, feminine, or androgynous) is a general functional characteristic. Your sexual preference (heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual) is a specific functional characteristic. A transsexual person is one who has a physical form that is opposite to the one that was associated with them at birth. A transgender person is one who functions in a manner that is generally opposite to the gender that was associated with them at birth.

I believe that gender is by far our most complex characteristic for reasons that I won’t discuss in detail but you and others have given some examples. Ultimately every person defines their gender for themselves. You are what you know yourself to be and what you want to be. I hope that I have helped you with my answer to your post.

Pink

[Kimberley]

Hi Bi!
First, congrats on graduating! Way to go!!!

Okay now to the gender role thingy. I dont know what it means to be female any more than I know what it means to be male. What I DO KNOW is how I feel. I feel psychologically (for lack of a better description) attracted to what would be considered a binary female. My experience of course is binary male (which I detest). My feeling is that I DO NOT feel male. So my choice is where? Somewhere in the middle because of life experience + feeling thing.

I am sexually hetero (I think), although I cannot rule out a relationship with a GM (preferrably once transitioned) which would still make me hetero except I would or could still have relationship with a GF.

Confused yet? I'm not. I just take it for what it is and that is that it just is. Once I quit worrying about all this garbage I was a lot more at ease with myself. Bottom line is that there are as many genders as there are people.

I need a :drink:. My head hurts...

:hugs:
Kimberley

[CaptLex]

Bottom line is that there are as many genders as there are people.
This is how I feel about it too, in a nutshell. I also like what Das said about "jazz" (though it did my head in a little :heehee:). I wish I had wise words to help end your confusion, Bi. I think we're all just trying to figure it out as we go along, and hopefully we can help each other with that. :hugs:

[kerrianna]

This is how I feel about it too, in a nutshell. I also like what Das said about "jazz" (though it did my head in a little :heehee:). I wish I had wise words to help end your confusion, Bi. I think we're all just trying to figure it out as we go along, and hopefully we can help each other with that. :hugs:

Speaking of confusion... you and Poc got the same avatar! :eek:

Although it is a very cool avatar.

hehehe...I think "it's jazz" will be my answer for everything now. Good one Das. :thumbsup:

[CaptLex]

Speaking of confusion... you and Poc got the same avatar! :eek:
Really . . . I hadn't noticed . . . :angel: :hmmm: :joke: :devil:


hehehe...I think "it's jazz" will be my answer for everything now. Good one Das. :thumbsup:
:iagree: I agree, from now on whenever someone asks me to explain it, I think "it's jazz" will sum it up nicely. :D

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Am I really trans? Maybe I’m just a really feminist type, who hates being told what she can’t do.

You might be interested in this article by transman sociologist Aaron Devor, "Female Gender Dysphoria: Personal Problem or Social Problem?"

Devor argues that there's overlaps between various kinds of gender discomfort. If you're tired of academese, just skip to tables 1 and 2, which summarize the points in the article.

One good point that Devor makes is that "gender dysphoria" really has three components:

- sex identity, i.e. male vs female based on what's between your legs

- gender self-identity, i.e. what do you see yourself as (based on your non-physical characteristics), e.g. masculine and/or feminine

- gender role, i.e. how others interact with you based on your perceived gender, e.g. man vs. woman.

Teasing these apart might better help you figure out where you stand.

[Dasein9]

Hey! No stealing my work until after the dissertation's done! :tongueout

[CaptLex]

Hey! No stealing my work until after the dissertation's done! :tongueout
You'll be famous! Professor Das' jazz theory . . . :happy:

[Dasein9]

Yeh, after I publish, 'kay?

[pocoyo]

Ah I .. I guess I better change my quote under my name thing then...
(It said "It's Jazz" (Prof. Das))

Btw no-ones stealing your work, u buffoon :p
Just quoting the cool words of a cool dude.

[Dasein9]

Buffoon! I like that! :D

[pocoyo]

*licks his cheek*

[Kieron Andrew]

Buffoon! I like that! :D
LOL Better than Baboon!

[Dasein9]

Eh, Pratchett's librarian is a Baboon. Ours is a Buffoon.

Works for me.

[Cai]

Eh, Pratchett's librarian is a Baboon. Ours is a Buffoon.

Works for me.

Orangutan! Pratchett's librarian is an Orangutan! Remember, he doesn't have the bottom. (I forgot which book that discussion was in, but all the UU profs were arguing over it). :p

[pocoyo]

LOL Better than Baboon!

HA HA HA that made me roar out loud.


Orangutan! Pratchett's librarian ....

mmmmmmmmmm.... Discworld....... j'adore....
(Well darr of course Das knows The Librarian is an Orangutan... he was just tryin' a bit of word play haha! And I emphasize... trying... HAHAHA *gets hit by Das*)

Sorry for taking the thread slightly off track Bi... but I'm sure you'll find it funny anyway hehehe.

*steeers it back*

So bi.. how are you feeling about it all today anyway?
I was reading a chapter on confusion and decision making in Feel the Fear, and Do It Anyway last night... and I could relate sooo much of it to myself, and I also thought about you a lot. I thought I need to tell Bi about this book....(although u probably already heard of it/have it 'cos it's really famous) but it's so good and it makes you laugh cos it's so true and helpful.

p.s. *hugs for the lovely bi*

[Dasein9]

Orangutan! Pratchett's librarian is an Orangutan! Remember, he doesn't have the bottom. (I forgot which book that discussion was in, but all the UU profs were arguing over it). :p

Ouch! How could I do that!?

More coffee! STAT!

[Dasein9]

I was reading a chapter on confusion and decision making in Feel the Fear, and Do It Anyway last night... and I could relate sooo much of it to myself, and I also thought about you a lot. I thought I need to tell Bi about this book....(although u probably already heard of it/have it 'cos it's really famous) but it's so good and it makes you laugh cos it's so true and helpful.

p.s. *hugs for the lovely bi*


So, what's the book called!?

[pocoyo]

(Well darr of course Das knows The Librarian is an Orangutan... he was just tryin' a bit of word play haha! And I emphasize... trying... HAHAHA *gets hit by Das*)



Ouch! How could I do that!?
Well... I guess not haha!



So, what's the book called!?



I was reading a chapter on confusion and decision making in Feel the Fear, and Do It Anyway last night...

Hmmm... could it be called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway? :tongueout



More coffee! STAT!

Yeah... that could be a good idea :p *gets chased by Das again* hehehe

[Dasein9]

Ah, I thought that was the chapter, not the book.

Still need more coffee. Then there's a picnic at school I forgot about. The Mass began 12 minutes ago; guess I missed that part. :D

[pocoyo]

Awwwwww *hugs poor bewildered caffiene-deficient Das*

I sorry for being annoying.

This is the book (but ewww the cover on this version is ugly... the cover on mine is nice! But yeah yeah... don't judge a book and all that.. haha)

http://www.amazon.com/Feel-Fear-Do-Anyway/dp/0345487427/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5914872-7869211?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180970212&sr=8-1


Oooh picnic :D *ears prick up*
Can you go, and miss the mass?

[Dasein9]

Oooh picnic :D *ears prick up*
Can you go, and miss the mass?

That's what I did. Slogged to school in the pouring rain. Walked into the picnic tent. Took a free tshirt. Said thanks. Noticed they're serving lobster. Walked to the other end of the tent, almost a city block away. Left. Slogged home.

I'm allergic to seafood, so sitting in a tent full of iodine steam would not have been good. So, I got the shirt and didn't have to stay at the party! :D

[pocoyo]

Awww... well er.. glad you sort of got to join in :)

*wonders how Bi's doing*

[Dasein9]

Overall, I'm pleased. Back at home now, reading The History of Sexuality. :D

[kerrianna]

Overall, I'm pleased. Back at home now, reading The History of Sexuality. :D

Oh! Am I in there? :D

Look under "confused" in the index.

:heehee:...and here we are again. :idontknow:

[Dasein9]

I dunno. It's got an interesting theory of power.

[Dasein9]

Nope, you're not in here. Yet. Probably because I'm only on Vol. 1, which is subtitled An Introduction. I should think you'd be Advanced Intermediate, at the very least!

[Dasein9]

A while later...

I've just realised I answered your question wrong, Kez. May I please try again?

Of course you're not in this book, Kez! It was written by Michel Foucault, and he died in 1984. There's NO WAY you're old enough to have been sexually active that long ago!

There, that better?

[bi_weird]

Wow hello there boys! I spend the day sick on the couch and you have a party in my absence! (*laughs* I'm alright, just been queasy all day so I stayed home from work and watched the Pride and Prejudice miniseries instead)
But yes I find your randomness amusing. Did I tell you all about my new stuffed orangutan? He's wonderful :-)
I'm alright today, mostly too distracted to be confused. Basically just as lost as I've been. I'm doing my best to just ignore it; I figure it can resolve itself on it's own. And Das, sounds like you had a lovely party...

[CaptLex]

Wow hello there boys! I spend the day sick on the couch and you have a party in my absence! (*laughs* I'm alright, just been queasy all day so I stayed home from work and watched the Pride and Prejudice miniseries instead)
Uh oh . . . you caught us shanghai-ing another thread. :shifty: Hope you're feeling better . . . and say hi to Mr. Darcy for me. Ah, Colin Firth . . . *sigh* :daydreaming:

[bi_weird]

Uh oh . . . you caught us shanghai-ing another thread. :shifty: Hope you're feeling better . . . and say hi to Mr. Darcy for me. Ah, Colin Firth . . . *sigh* :daydreaming:

Haha yeah Colin Firth...Yeah we watched the mini-series last week, and I figured he was a good reason to watch it again today. Though Elizabeth isn't bad either...too bad you don't go for girls.

[Dasein9]

*sigh* Colin Firth...

[CaptLex]

Haha yeah Colin Firth...Yeah we watched the mini-series last week, and I figured he was a good reason to watch it again today. Though Elizabeth isn't bad either...too bad you don't go for girls.


*sigh* Colin Firth...

For Bi and Das . . . 48677

Bi, if I were into girls, I'd definitely go for Elizabeth Bennett (Jennifer Ehle). But this way we don't have to fight - you can have Elizabeth and I'll take Darcy . . . though I may have to fight Das for him. :heehee:

[Dasein9]

You can have Darcy. I'm taking Colin!

[bi_weird]

Mmmm Elizabeth...and I'm the only taker :-D

But yes. I've gotten nowhere thinking about this. I've been wearing comfy girl clothes for a few days, and I'm fine with that. Until today it's been too warm for boy clothes so I'm dressing with the weather, which works. I think I should put on a tie again. When I wear anything that I feel screams male, I always feel really right. From the first time I put on a guys shirt, through boxers. A lot of the 'blue haze' has worn off, though, in that a lot of my guy clothes feel really normal. Basically just ties feel exceptionally male now, and I have a pretty decent male wardrobe. Maybe it's time to take things a step further, though I wouldn't know what. I was thinking about packing or something for a while. Like I wanted to take things a step further. I know I don't pass at all, and that kinda makes me sad. Thing is, I don't know if I'll ever want to cut my hair, because I've always loved having long hair, so I feel like I'll never get close to passing. I think I'd really like to, but I don't want to be stuck looking like a guy, because I don't always feel that way. I think I'd like people thinking I was a guy and treating me as such, I really do. Maybe I just feel stuck because I'm not sure where to go from here. Oi. Feeling lost, in case you can't tell. Such a great time for that, with the whole total upheaval of my life thing going on. *laughs* At least I've got my guinea pigs and Harry Potter. And apparently now Elizabeth Bennet. :-)
In conclusion: still confused.

[pocoyo]

"I'm goin' where the weather, suits maah clooothes..."

Well bi just changes his clothes to suit the weather haha
(Which seems like a good plan to me!)

Hey bi I can understand a lot of what you're saying... and (I've been thinking this for a while)...I think you should join the boy's clubhouse.

We can give u lots of cool advice in there about stuff.... (and there's gonna be some things in there already that you'll find helpful).

Guinea pigs, Harry Potter and Elizabeth Bennet... sounds good to me matey ;)
*pretends he's watched P & P too...* hahaha I do know of it :D
(Obviously... being a filmy/tv geek...)


So yeah... come on over to the clubhouse.
We don't bite....
....hard. :D

p.s. I can understand the hair thing too... but at the end of the day... it's only hair.. it grows (and there's hair extensions!)
I know how u feel though, because when I was growing mine for my experiment.... I had a bunch of hair angst haha! But it's cool trying out different lengths and styles 'cos you get to see what feels nice and right for you! But it's also totally cool to stick with long hair... there are many long/longer haired guys out there (i used to be one of them... sob my skater boy hair... sob my rock dude hair.. sob :p) hahaha but yes it can make it easier to pass to have it shorter, because people sort of go... "short hair...male style... hmm.. boy..." wheras with the longer hair it's like "is it or isnt it...? oh... a bit feminine features... girl..."

Also... hmm cutting your hair before moving and other upheavals... might be too much stress at once? On the other hand it could be an exciting new start.... new town... new hair...

Whatever you think is best/comfortable for you right now!

So yeah.. I'm gonna stop rambling and continuing jogging now!

[Kieron Andrew]

I think you should join the boy's clubhouse.
uhhhh i thought he was a member *me confused*

[pocoyo]

haha I always wonder "why isn't bi in here talking?"
and i've thought it on like loads of occasions.
And then I thought.... maybe he isn't a member (cos u know he's so unsure of being trans and stuff).
So I looked on his profile and it says he's not a member of any groups!

:worried:

So come on Bi! hehe

(Unless I'm just being re-eally thick, and you are already a member)

[Evert]

p.s. I can understand the hair thing too... but at the end of the day... it's only hair.. it grows (and there's hair extensions!)
I know how u feel though, because when I was growing mine for my experiment.... I had a bunch of hair angst haha! But it's cool trying out different lengths and styles 'cos you get to see what feels nice and right for you! But it's also totally cool to stick with long hair... there are many long/longer haired guys out there (i used to be one of them... sob my skater boy hair... sob my rock dude hair.. sob :p) hahaha but yes it can make it easier to pass to have it shorter, because people sort of go... "short hair...male style... hmm.. boy..." wheras with the longer hair it's like "is it or isnt it...? oh... a bit feminine features... girl..."


Like them? :heehee:

Click Here (http://www.heidevolk.com/www/uploads/galerij/Promotional+photos/Heidevolk%20PF%203%20by%20VDV%20ART.jpg)


And I also have long hair... Never been a problem :D

[Cai]

Like them? :heehee:

Click Here (http://www.heidevolk.com/www/uploads/galerij/Promotional+photos/Heidevolk%20PF%203%20by%20VDV%20ART.jpg)


*drool*

Sorry, what were we talking about again? :heehee:

[Evert]

*drool*

Sorry, what were we talking about again? :heehee:

:lol:

So you are into metal-guys?

Good to know!

:lol:

[pocoyo]

Like them? :heehee:

Click Here (http://www.heidevolk.com/www/uploads/galerij/Promotional+photos/Heidevolk%20PF%203%20by%20VDV%20ART.jpg)


And I also have long hair... Never been a problem :D

hehehe coool picture, grrarr. :D

Yeah I know (about your long hair 'vert)... but you're well tall! If you're small like me... and have longish hair... very annoyingly irl people often make up their minds "GIRL!" (grrr). (You know... that even happened to my GM friend who has long hair and is short hehe).
But seein' as Bi is well tall also... *grins*... he may not have this problem!
Yeh bi you could still have long hair.. but "boy" long hair...

[Kieron Andrew]

So come on Bi! hehe
yeah Bi come on, we have really great discussions in the boys clubhouse:heehee:......but sssshhhh the girls will wanna know lol

[pocoyo]

Yeah, Kerrianna's always stomping around outside banging on the door, wanting to know what's going on in there!

[Evert]

Yeah, Kerrianna's always stomping around outside banging on the door, wanting to know what's going on in there!


Yesterday she was trying to climb up some branches you know! :shocked:

(those high heels were a problem though :heehee:)

[pocoyo]

And I bet you were trying to look up her skirt too...!! :heehee:

[Evert]

And I bet you were trying to look up her skirt too...!! :heehee:

Yesss... :o

But if you tell anyone I'll deny it! :mad:

[CaptLex]

So I looked on his profile and it says he's not a member of any groups!

:worried:

So come on Bi! hehe

(Unless I'm just being re-eally thick, and you are already a member)
:eek: Nope . . . you're right, I had to double check that to be sure. How did I miss this? I didn't realize Bi wasn't in the Clubhouse either. Bi, you certainly qualify to join, if you want. We'll even break out a big plate of brownies for you. :D

[bi_weird]

*laughs* I love that the response to "am I really trans?" is "Come play with the boys!"
The reason I never joined before, after I got over my whole masculine inferiority thing, was that I always thought about it when I wanted to avoid homework, and I figured that I shouldn't give myself another excuse to slack. Seeing as how it's summer, so work but no homework, and y'all are being so insistant (in between looking up Kerri's skirts - EVERT!) sure I'll join. Who do I talk to about that?

And yeah, Michigan weather makes changing my clothes with the weather quite simple. It was cold enough for long pants yesterday, but today the high is 88...so I get to switch often.

[CaptLex]

Who do I talk to about that?
Click on the "User CP" thing on the top left, then go to Group Memberships and apply there. Then you get a cryptic message delivered to you in the middle of the night with the secret password and the secret knock. ;)

Yay, Bi's coming over! :D

[Kieron Andrew]

Who do I talk to about that?
go to the top left of the page, you'll see user cp click that, go down to group memberships and click that, then scroll down and look for boys clubhouse, right hand side of it put a dot in join group, look just underneath there and click join group

[Kieron Andrew]

Click on the "User CP" thing on the top left, then go to Group Memberships and apply there. Then you get a cryptic message delivered to you in the middle of the night with the secret password and the secret knock. ;)

Yay, Bi's coming over! :D
drats he beat me to it!! :heehee:

YAY Bi's coming over!!! now we can all talk about Kerrianna in private! *she'll kill me when she reads this lol*

[CaptLex]

drats he beat me to it!! :heehee:
What took you so long? :tongueout

[Kieron Andrew]

What took you so long? :tongueout
i typed it out in detail!!!! so :tongueout

[bi_weird]

*laughs* my word were you both stalking my thread or what?

[pocoyo]

Yaay Bi is joining :D Woohoo!

:jumping: :yippee::GD:!

[CaptLex]

*laughs* my word were you both stalking my thread or what?
Haha . . . we're just very efficient. :D Just remember: once you're in the Clubhouse, lock the door behind you so Kerri doesn't sneak in. :heehee:

BTW, I think the answer to every dilemma is "Come play with the boys!" ;)

P.S. You're in! See, wasn't that easy? Enjoy! :)

[Kieron Andrew]

P.S. You're in! See, wasn't that easy? Enjoy! :)
*Eagerly awaits Bi's first post in the boys club* :heehee:

[Marla S]

You know what ?
You guys are far more humorous and funny than me and the folks over there (some exceptions of course).

I am jealous.
I want to become a FTM:D

[Kieron Andrew]

You know what ?
You guys are far more humorous and funny than me and the folks over there (some exceptions of course).

I am jealous.
I want to become a FTM:D
hehe!! what did we do now?? :angel:

[bi_weird]

Dude guys, you're going to get me in trouble. I'm supposed to be working this afternoon and I just spent two hours reading old threads...and there's so much more to read!

[Cai]

Dude guys, you're going to get me in trouble. I'm supposed to be working this afternoon and I just spent two hours reading old threads...and there's so much more to read!

I read 14 pages of the archives in this section just after I joined. Took me about two days. :heehee:

[Kieron Andrew]

Dude guys, you're going to get me in trouble. I'm supposed to be working this afternoon and I just spent two hours reading old threads...and there's so much more to read!
lol!!! we told you, you were missing out :tongueout:heehee:

[Marla S]

hehe!! what did we do now?? :angel:

Well, you are there and funny (even in serious threads).
Just more relaxed I think.
That's it.

... and you have the better parties :drink::hugs:

[Lovely Rita]

I’m basically totally lost right now. Can someone tell me what gender is? I honestly have no idea what it means to be male or female. The corollary of that is that I have no idea at the moment what it means to be transgender. I think I got it at some point, but I may have been fooling myself.
I’ve never really understood gender. Didn’t get it back in third grade in shirts vs. skins soccer why I wasn’t allowed on the skins team. Didn’t get why I had to wear dresses when my brothers didn’t. Heck I think I might be bisexual because while I can see sexual differences, when it comes to relating to a person, not a body, I can’t tell the difference. I think it’s like being colorblind.
I feel so very lost. Am I really trans? Maybe I’m just a really feminist type, who hates being told what she can’t do. Maybe I just like boys clothes because girls clothes are horridly uncomfortable and never fit me right. I don’t know what ‘male’, ‘female’, and ‘trans’ mean at the moment (like I said, I thought I had it, but lost it at some point in the recent past) so it’s really hard to know. I don’t know what it’s normal for a girl to feel. A lot of my female friends say they don’t like wearing girls clothes or being treated like a girl, but they don’t identify as trans. I’ve always said that I must be simply because I seek out places like this and information on the subject, and therefore I’m different from my friends who have no need for this. Is that a good enough definition?
Of course, this is made worse by the fact that my life is going through major changes. I graduated a month ago, and one of my two best friends moved away two weeks later. In two weeks my other best friend leaves, and then in a month I go to California, thousands of miles from anything I know. So yeah, I’m very lost at the moment. Anyone got any advice? Or a bottle of vodka? We’re all out here, which is sad indeed.

Hi Bi Weird, I can relate so much to what you wrote. Many times we all are trying to understand who we are and what category fits us best. In my opinion and my opinion alone I believe categories can be harmful indeed.

Categories can turn into things we have to live up to reducing us to nothing more than stereotypes. I did that one for too too long. I still don't know exactly who I am. I believe I have a better idea but there is still so much more to it. Right now I can say I am a person who loves to cross dress amongst other things. I love this part of who I am amongst many other parts of who I am.

I am working on ridding myself of the bad stuff too, and getting rid of my prejudices and negativity of self and others.

I accept myself wholeheartedly and work every day to grow in my love for self and others. I stay away from negativity and embrace Love.

What I do know is that I am enjoying the journey of discovery so very much. For once I feel free to trully be who I am. All I can tell you is that I am a human being. A person who is even a mystery to myself. I don't pigeon hole myself anymore because no categories really work for me either.

Whoever I trully am I am just happy to be alive and free to really find out.

Thanks for letting me share:love:

[dancinginthedark]

Bi it's little wonder everyone get confused from time to time. I have been called straight, bisexual, cisgendered, FTM, male, female and probably a few I can't even remember this morning. Now days I identify as a pansexual for folks who simply have to have some labels to figure me out. I don't feel I fit in just one box. Some days I feel more masculine than femme. Others it the other way around but in the end I am just me. Maybe some of that confusion comes from evolving as we grow and learn more about ourselves? Or realizing it's not so simple as society would like?

dancin

I wonder if anyone else wonders if they might just be pangender??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangender

[Kate Simmons]

Well, you are there and funny (even in serious threads).
Just more relaxed I think.
That's it.

... and you have the better parties :drink::hugs:Which is why I hang out over here, Marla, to get some sanity, not to mention the parties are great. These guys are classy and charming but still know how to have fun. Makes me wonder why I even dress the other way sometimes.:rolleyes:

[caderemington]

Hmmmm.... Pangender might be a good title for me. I hate all the female gender roles and such, but I am more feminine than masculine, but I also like to be perceived as male. Oh and also, i enjoy my genitalia as it is, but my breasts could go and I would be happy. So I'm not sure. On most days I confuse the heck out of myself just trying to fit myself into a category. So I have learned to not fit myself into a box, and just be. Maybe its because I am a laid back person that I can do that, I don't know.

[weirdalchemy]

I want to say Bi that I think I know how you feel.

I've never understood gender at all. As a kid I basically thought of myself as a boy... or if I thought of myself as a girl it didn't matter. But I never got a grasp on gender. When you look at how people actually behave in real life it all falls apart. I often wonder if I'm somehow "jammed in the middle" of the whole gender thing so I can't see the duality everyone insists is there. I can see how male and female bodies are different.. most of the time, as in secondary sex characteristics. But beyond that I become badly confused.

[hiro]

*raises hand and jumps up and down* Me, me! I'm pangender!

Ah, a fellow Michigander. (Yeah, I'm one of those people. >.>;; ) Gotta love the weather. Actually, I don't live too far from you...

I'm actually in the same boat as you. Your story sounds very similar to mine. Actually, my similarity to FTM stories, in general, is what started my questioning... Erm, but this isn't about me. It's about you. I agree with what Das said. Gender isn't so concrete as some people think it is. Many people call it a spectrum. I, for example, have recently defined myself as pangender, which dancinginthedark has provided a link for. :D Whether that's just my particular comfort zone right now, or I really am, uh, I just thought I'd throw that out there. In wiki, you can find a number of articules describing different categories that fall in different places on the gender spectrum. It's just something to think about. Or maybe I'm confusing you worse. XD If so, I'm sorry. That is not my intent...

As for passing, unfortunately, it doesn't work as well if you don't commit (ie, going on HRT, getting facial surgery and/or doing other things to change your outward appearance.) I know I wouldn't pass either; my lips are too full, and my face is too round. >.>;; C'est la vie...

I wish you luck. :D

caderemington - you sound a bit like me too...

Rawr, I'm too much all over the place right now. Crave sleep.