Honest opinions?

[Julie York]

Here's something to chew over.

While everyone is being wonderfully supportive and either saying kind things , encouraging things, or nothing (usually wise in my case), there is actually a lack of real feedback. And I think somehow there should be genuine feedback somewhere...or somehow. Somone should be the official "It Hurts But It Is True" bad girl on here who tells the stark truth or there should be something in the Lounge. (I'm just waffling but you get the idea.)

I'll illustrate a point, if I haven't made it clear what I mean...


"Hey girls how do I look? Give your honest opinion."
The actual answers are just encouragement, and good for you...etc. (which I am all for too)

But the honest opinion is....
Your wig looks like it cost 50p.
I can see your blue chin.
Great legs!
Very sexy stockings.
You're obviously trying hard.
You look happy.
Women's boobs don't rest up round their shoulders / down by their elbows (generally).
A real woman wouldn't wear lime green leggings and shocking pink eye shadow. Not if you want to pass unnoticed anyway.


See what I mean?


Discuss.


[If I ever ask for your honest opinion ......I don't REALLY want it....Please remember that....Thank you.]

[stevie h]

you are prob right

stevie

[Tristen Cox]

Julie you suck!! Is that better?? Now why would I say that, even if it was true? It's downright rude. My motto is "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all".

Don't worry I get the point of what you're saying, I'm just being a bitch as usual :rolleyes:

[MonaSmith]

Hi Julie,

I totally understand where you are coming from, but I have always thought that if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing, well, in public anyway. I'm sure that behind closed doors we all bitch about each other, that is what girls do! :D

I don't think that, if I really wanted and honest opinion about something I would ask the open forum. I think that it is far better to ask your friends, as they have your best interests at heart, even when they have a go at you for something.

The forum gives support and helps confidence, but it must be taken with a pinch of salt at times. As long as we all realise this I don't see any major problems.

Speak to you later Honey

Mona x.

[Akyra]

see you suck too mona.....

onlee kiddin i wuv u.....

[Maude]

Here's something to chew over.

While everyone is being wonderfully supportive and either saying kind things , encouraging things, or nothing (usually wise in my case), there is actually a lack of real feedback. And I think somehow there should be genuine feedback somewhere...or somehow. Somone should be the official "It Hurts But It Is True" bad girl on here who tells the stark truth or there should be something in the Lounge. (I'm just waffling but you get the idea.)

I'll illustrate a point, if I haven't made it clear what I mean...


"Hey girls how do I look? Give your honest opinion."
The actual answers are just encouragement, and good for you...etc. (which I am all for too)

But the honest opinion is....
Your wig looks like it cost 50p.
I can see your blue chin.
Great legs!
Very sexy stockings.
You're obviously trying hard.
You look happy.
Women's boobs don't rest up round their shoulders / down by their elbows (generally).
A real woman wouldn't wear lime green leggings and shocking pink eye shadow. Not if you want to pass unnoticed anyway.


See what I mean?


Discuss.


[If I ever ask for your honest opinion ......I don't REALLY want it....Please remember that....Thank you.]

how about a picture of YOU ?
maude

[DonnaT]

I've given some honest opinions, when they are constructive. Which is the point I believe Julie is trying to make.

For example, if the blue is showing through the foundation, mention something about how a good orange concealer under foundation will make it easier to pass.

Telling someone they look like a bloke in a dress is not constructive.

[celeste26]

It's plain to me that we here are not into reality anyway so why introduce some at this time?

[Stephanie Brooks]

While everyone is being wonderfully supportive and either saying kind things , encouraging things, or nothing (usually wise in my case), there is actually a lack of real feedback. And I think somehow there should be genuine feedback somewhere...or somehow. Somone should be the official "It Hurts But It Is True" bad girl on here who tells the stark truth or there should be something in the Lounge. (I'm just waffling but you get the idea.)

...

[If I ever ask for your honest opinion ......I don't REALLY want it....Please remember that....Thank you.]
Julie,

The supportive feedback *is* genuine feedback. It just might be adjusted for the situation.

In many situations people are just finding the guts to dress, take a picture or two, and then post it in public. That's not easy. For some of us, me included, we get such negative feedback from the Other World that just being able to be here is wonderfully healing.

If someone's simply dressing in private and puts together an outfit that might not be a "Do" in Glamour magazine, I see nothing wrong with that. "Hey, you look great!" When I say that, it's true! Not having dressed much in recent years, these people are doing something by which I can live a bit vicariously. It gives me a little hope that I'll be back out there again soon.

On the other hand, if someone says they're planning on going "out" and "whaddya think?", I believe this group will also give an honest opinion. I've given an honest opinion or two when someone has asked for one.

In closing, not everyone has the same view of crossdressing. Some want to pass; I do. Others want to be noticed. Still others have their own style that transcends others' opinions.

[confusionatitsbest]

Hi Julie, Stevie

I agree with you both here in the respect, I dress,make up, wig and so on, look in the mirror and to me I,ve made an effort, it feels good and looks good. So on one hand in my eyes at that moment I would pass as a real women, I look brill!!!! but in reality do I? As you say Stevie, its probably true we don't actually want the truth but we need the support and encouragement, at that point we feel alive. :p As Julie says though, after all a 50p wig, wonky boobs or completly outragous clothing to walk down the street, won't blend in or go unoticed :eek: In fairness I would think though, if people want to take things further and go/come out, surely they need to know the truth to give them the best chance of success of passing or becoming a woman. I supose theres an valid arguement for the truth or not! :confused:

I know though if I ever was to venture out, I would post my pictures here and ask what you all think. I would feel awful though if I had gone out and been read, to find I didn't look remotley like a woman :(

Chrissy xxxx

[sherri]

On the other hand, if someone says they're planning on going "out" and "whaddya think?", I believe this group will also give an honest opinion. I've given an honest opinion or two when someone has asked for one. You may be onto the solution, Fractal. At least it sounds like it to me. Anyone asking for an opinion should also state their intention. That way we know whether to hold a pep rally or a critique session.

[Julie York]

Woooh!

That got a reaction!

Before you all get the wrong impression....I am all for everyone being supportive and that is why I was first attracted to this forum. My ONLY point was not that we should all have a bitch at some poor soul, but that SOMEWHERE there might be some genuine feedback related to Reality, if we needed it. The sort of thing your gf or wife or gg would say when you really DID want to know how to improve your look and they knew you were going to make a fool of yourself.


Maude...I have shown photos of me...And people were sensible enough to say nice things despite what they actually thought. But then I didn't ask for anyone's honest opinion and wasn't looking for genuine advice.

DonnaT has the right angle on it.

[Julie York]

Hi Julie, Stevie

I agree with you both here in the respect, I dress,make up, wig and so on, look in the mirror and to me I,ve made an effort, it feels good and looks good. So on one hand in my eyes at that moment I would pass as a real women, I look brill!!!! but in reality do I? As you say Stevie, its probably true we don't actually want the truth but we need the support and encouragement, at that point we feel alive. :p As Julie says though, after all a 50p wig, wonky boobs or completly outragous clothing to walk down the street, won't blend in or go unoticed :eek: In fairness I would think though, if people want to take things further and go/come out, surely they need to know the truth to give them the best chance of success of passing or becoming a woman. I supose theres an valid arguement for the truth or not! :confused:

I know though if I ever was to venture out, I would post my pictures here and ask what you all think. I would feel awful though if I had gone out and been read, to find I didn't look remotley like a woman :(

Chrissy xxxx

Thank you for that. If anyone got all hot under your g-string at my opening post, read the above and that's the sort of balanced angle I was explaining.

Cheers confusionatitsbest.

[Amelie]

I don't make bad comments on peoples' looks, or how they dress. To me, how someone looks or dresses is up to them. I have seen in clubs all sorts of CDs.
Cds with shaved heads, with men's clothes but fem make-up. I have seen many different styles of CDs, none of these Cds thought they were wrong in the way they looked, and they weren't. They all had their own style. So on this forum, I can't tell another member if their look can be improved, because I already saw all these different looks in the clubs.

Now when it comes to someones words or stories, then I have been critical. Some here have called my words harsh when I answer back a post that I feel is wrong or silly. I think it might be a cultural difference between us. I sometimes feel that some members here are not only in the closet but they are in a closet in Siberia. Sometimes it seems like they haven't a clue to what it's like in the world. Especially when it comes to Cding. Sometimes the questions coming from middle aged men on this forum can be quite silly. And I don't mean the fun threads like Wendy's, I mean there are some really silly questions about Cding, that I think any 16 year old would know the answer to. These threads sometimes get to me, so I respond harshly. I am not against that CD who made the thread, I just want the others here, especially the lurkers that there is another view, and not to take the silly threads seriously.
I can be honest with my thoughts, if you read back on my posts you will see this. I have probably hurt a few feelings on the forum. It might come down to having to defend myself 24 hours a day. Having to defend who I am, just for the right to live my life. I sometimes take this anger to this forum, I am not angry at any Cd here, it's just that I see things completely different than most here, and I can't figure out why others think the way they do.
This sort of sounds like a rant, well it's long enough for a rant.
Amelie

PS-Just recently in another thread, I did tell another CD to change her wig, I did try to be nice about it.

[Wendy me]

i think if you can't say all good things pick out something that is real nice and say something nice abought that.............

[Helana]

It all depends who is posting. If you know the person and they are asking for constructive criticism than drop the compliments and be critical. I, for one, welcome criticism and will go in record now that all critiques about how I look or the things I do are warmly welcomed. However, I suspect that I am in the minority here, most posters just want supportive replies which is understandable since most are still in the closet and are very anxious about revealing themselves.

But I know what Julie is talking about. I don't mind what fashion sense they have but when I see breasts tucked up under chins or fitted skirts hanging off hips then I am sooooooo tempted to make a suggestion or two. :D

[Celeste GG]

well my ex hjusband always said I looked beautiful... even first thing in the morning... so it's obvious that lots of men either are SO used to lying to their wives and girlfriends ..."NO your bum doesn't look tooo bit in that!" they don't know how to tell the truth any more.

but I will if you Really want... Constructinve criticism of course.


However though you still might look like a tragic tranny... in one pic it might be a big improvement from the previous goes. that's what counts. PB's personal bests not compared to what you think you WANT to look like.

[christine55]

For example I've seen plenty of posts asking "Do I pass" . Most girls look far better in pics than in real life. We only post our best shots from our best angles and a still photo shows none of our mannerisms. I have seen some really masculine looking pics with all kinds of feedback "Oh you can easily pass" etc. The poor girl goes out happily feeling no one will know she is not a genetic girl. The very least that will happen is dissapointment.
Some girls dont really care if they don't pass. I know that I certainly cant fool everyone, I will fool no one who is observant. I enjoy going out more if I feel that I have passed but usually I know I get read at least once or twice.
Its nice to be kind but why give a girl false expectations? Seek improvement, not perfection.
Hugs, Christine

[Jeanette H]

To me, criticism of anyone's femme appearance come down to two words: needs work. It's more useful to share tips and to point out common mistakes than to hurt anyone's feelings.

[MissBosie]

I'm sure that behind closed doors we all bitch about each other, that is what girls do!


Em, actually I don't Mona and none of my friends do either

[MonaSmith]

Em, actually I don't Mona and none of my friends do either
Hi there Miss Bosie,

I think that you might have missed the tone of my post, it was a joke honey!!

I've put in a smilie to help signpost it better.

Love

Mona xx.

[Amelie]

For example I've seen plenty of posts asking "Do I pass" . Most girls look far better in pics than in real life. We only post our best shots from our best angles and a still photo shows none of our mannerisms. I have seen some really masculine looking pics with all kinds of feedback "Oh you can easily pass" etc. The poor girl goes out happily feeling no one will know she is not a genetic girl. The very least that will happen is dissapointment.
Some girls dont really care if they don't pass. I know that I certainly cant fool everyone, I will fool no one who is observant. I enjoy going out more if I feel that I have passed but usually I know I get read at least once or twice.
Its nice to be kind but why give a girl false expectations? Seek improvement, not perfection.
Hugs, Christine


This is exactly correct. It can be quite harmful if a CD on this forum got only positive feedback on if she could pass in public. I have said in other posts that none of us here can pass all of the time. The CD must be prepared that she will be read.
I feel that this kind of encouragement can do more harm than good. I have even seen on forums where a CD is thinking of transistioning to be a woman. These CDs get very encouraging feedback from the members that she will easily become a woman, because the members won't say bad things to others. Some of these CDs haven't been out dressed as a woman for long periods of time or even gone out at all. This feeling of encouragement builds up inside of the Cd , until they venture out and reality bites them in the butt.
It has to be a big let down after all the great feed back they got from the forum. I think it can be emotionaly damaging.
I agree that how someone dresses is up to them and any style they shoose is neither right or wrong, ugly or pretty. But to tell others that they can pass very easily can be damaging, especially if this CD ventures outside thinking no one will read her.
Instead of having discussions on how to pass in public, we should be having talks on how to handle a situation when we are read. How to deal with being read on am emotional level.
Amelie

PS-I,m sorry, there are members here who can pass in public, I can think of only two members right now, Kew and Y J

[Priscilla1018]

This is exactly correct. It can be quite harmful if a CD on this forum got only positive feedback on if she could pass in public. I have said in other posts that none of us here can pass all of the time. The CD must be prepared that she will be read.
I feel that this kind of encouragement can do more harm than good. I have even seen on forums where a CD is thinking of transistioning to be a woman. These CDs get very encouraging feedback from the members that she will easily become a woman, because the members won't say bad things to others. Some of these CDs haven't been out dressed as a woman for long periods of time or even gone out at all. This feeling of encouragement builds up inside of the Cd , until they venture out and reality bites them in the butt.
It has to be a big let down after all the great feed back they got from the forum. I think it can be emotionaly damaging.
I agree that how someone dresses is up to them and any style they shoose is neither right or wrong, ugly or pretty. But to tell others that they can pass very easily can be damaging, especially if this CD ventures outside thinking no one will read her.
Instead of having discussions on how to pass in public, we should be having talks on how to handle a situation when we are read. How to deal with being read on am emotional level.
Amelie

PS-I,m sorry, there are members here who can pass in public, I can think of only two members right now, Kew and Y J

Hi Amelie,

I agree , I could'nt pass even if I were wearing a mu mu. Knowing that helps me avoid bad experiences. Saying good things when you know your not being honest can do more harm than good. I wish there was a way to flag our posts when we want a 'real' honest opinion.There are some on this forum that could pass.Many,like me,who can not.
As for being told what to do if you are read, many of us prefer to avoid confrontation.However,learning how to handle the emotional experience of being read is a very good idea.

Love and Hugs to all,
Priscilla

[Casandra]

I think it could be a good idea if we could have one "honesty" thread, where we can ask for opinions on how we look. Isn't it possible to be honest, yet tactful and kind at the same time? When I'm ready to post a picture, I hope for a little honest comment, rather than the same old BS which serves no purpose other than stoking our egos. If we don't want to hear the truth, then we just keep on posting in the same manner as is already being done.

[Marlene4a]

What and who are we comparing ourselves to ? The other world (GG) ?

I think everyone here is beautiful. Period.

Yes Julie you have beautiful shoes and ankles.

[ChristineRenee]

Yes Julie, I'll admit to being part of the sunshine club a bit too often...but I do think it is situational as well. We have a few girls here who can pass on the street, but the large majority of us, including myself, are still going to look like a guy in a dress. I have no illusions or delusions about that, but I know the psyche of a CD can be fragile too. I guess I just don't want to the type to burst someone's good feeling bubble, even if it is being well-intentioned. The girls here in this forum all put a lot of effort into looking their feminine best. Even if some are more adept at it than others, this doesn't diminish the effort made by those who don't pull it off as well. The effort is still there. Also, being the sisterhood that we are, I think we are naturally just a little more sensitive to negativity since we are so easily subject to so much of it because of who we are. So, many of us tend to go a little heavy at times on the praise to compensate and maybe nuture our friendships some too. I guess I tend to err on the side of politeness with this issue...I'm not about misleading anyone...but neither am I into hurting their feelings either. That's just how I feel about it.


Love,
Chrissie:)

[Samantha Jane]

Hi julie,

You hit the nail right on head, when you mentioned the key word supportive. Most of society does not undertand and rejects those of us who cross dress and many girls, like myself come to forums like this one for gidance, support and love.
How long would places like this last, if everyone were so brutality honest. I hear what you are saying, but I for one like the encouragement from all the girls here.
I come here to gain belief in myself, that what I'm pursuing, what ever my looks, reasons or motives is right, for the sake my own sanity and happiness.

I hope that makes sense.

Charlotte xx

[jhnjks]

Those of us that are of mature years do know that halloween only comes once a year. It doesn't deter us from the crossdressing desire. It does prevent us from passing is some cases and these types of venues are important. One hopes that the younger pretty ones realise it will happen to them and take a little interest in what it takes to continue after it is obvious that its not going to be. That said if one asks itif this wig is better than that one, tell it like it is. Just don't be cruel because it is easy. Help when it is obvious it is desired and enjoy the sound of one hand clapping when it is not.

[Celeste GG]

well my ex hjusband always said I looked beautiful... even first thing in the morning... so it's obvious that lots of men either are SO used to lying to their wives and girlfriends ..."NO your bum doesn't look tooo bit in that!" they don't know how to tell the truth any more.

but I will if you Really want... Constructinve criticism of course.


However though you still might look like a tragic tranny... in one pic it might be a big improvement from the previous goes. that's what counts. PB's personal bests not compared to what you think you WANT to look like.

Honestly, does my typing look bad in this????

[Nicole Summers]

Typing schmiping, we be get da masaje, u luuk grate !

[Helana]

Supportive statements and constructive criticism can go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive. I would prefer to see replies which said,
"You look really good, I really like that outfit and can I make a minor suggestion - you should try to wear your skirt a little higher as the female waist is situated above your belly button not below it. That would really complete your great look"

If you received this reply to a picture you posted, would you be hurt?

[Susan S]

I think constructive criticism should only e given when people ask for it. I posted a few pics when I found this forum as I wanted the confidence boost, but was disappointed by the response I got which has been sorted.

Nowadays I've had more time to practise dressing and now I do want to receive opinions on my photos whether good or bad as if I am to go out in public or mix with other CD'sa at socials, I want to pass en femme.

So I think constructive criticism should only be given if people ask for it and if they do, then they should be ready to accept other people's opinions.