who are you

[maria p]

There have been a few recent posts about " loving Yourself" this was directed at loving your feminine side and while I have no issue with this, I wondered how many of you loved the man inside you actually are? Because without this balance you are not the men that we are married and are more than just men who crossdress and I do take issue with this if you have not told the women in your lives because while unconditional love may apply to many aspects of life such as aging, illness, disability or financial matters, women do not go into a relationship expecting to have to change their sexual orientation because we fell in love with men who you presented yourself as being when we met you.

[Kate Simmons]

I'm very much in touch with my male self Maria. It did take a lot of work though. For myself, it was easy to be the female me but like many, I tried to deny my male side. This got me into trouble big time and I was so high up in the "pink fog", I didn't want to come back down. I realized , however, that without my male side to balance me, I would not be able to function. It took a couple of years but now I have a more balanced outlook and am doing much better. The point is I now control when I dress and it doesn't control me. Sal has become the fun part of who I am but Rich is always there to offer support and stability. It may not be for everyone but this is what I've found that works the best for me.:happy:

[GypsyKaren]

women do not go into a relationship expecting to have to change their sexual orientation because we fell in love with men who you presented yourself as being when we met you.

Exactly how does the manner one projects themselves as have anything to do with your sexual orientation, and how would that force you to change it? This begs the further question of what exactly is a man to you? My image of a "man" is like what I have for everyone else, a human being with a human heart, and with human feelings. Does wearing a floral print blouse instead of a flannel shirt make someone any less of a person? I'm confused...

Karen

[Sheila]

Individuals, like us they bleed if cut, cry at sad things, laugh at the funnies, and at life, hold out their hand to reach friends, family and neighbours who are in need, are Doctors, lawyers,refuse collectors, slaes assistant etc etc they do charitable things, they get mad, they get frustrated, they oversleep, run late, they run you to the hospital in the middle of the night when your kid is ill and your car has broken down, they yell at he kids when they are sick and tired of asking them, not to leave their roller skates in the middle of the stairs for you to fall over, in other words they are human beings, with the good points, and the not so good points, that make us human hun.

:hugs:

[Rita B]

I'm very much in touch with my male self Maria. It did take a lot of work though. For myself, it was easy to be the female me but like many, I tried to deny my male side. This got me into trouble big time and I was so high up in the "pink fog", I didn't want to come back down. I realized , however, that without my male side to balance me, I would not be able to function. It took a couple of years but now I have a more balanced outlook and am doing much better. The point is I now control when I dress and it doesn't control me. Sal has become the fun part of who I am but Rich is always there to offer support and stability. It may not be for everyone but this is what I've found that works the best for me.:happy: and of course, dear Sal, we never get lonesome because we have each other to talk to. . . .:love:

Rita

[gulliver]

I don't accept that I have separate male and female 'selves'. There are male and female traits in everyone and it's the balance between the two that's important. If society accepted that and allowed everyone to be as people rather than appear to be male or female there would be no need for men to try to pass as women or vice versa.
Personally, I 'present' as me - sometimes in jeans and t-shirt, sometimes in a skirt - and it doesn't matter what I wear, I am still me!

[Angie G]

When I dress I'm still male inside and out I just cover it differently parts don't fall off and replace with others :hugs:
Angie

[maria p]

Exactly how does the manner one projects themselves as have anything to do with your sexual orientation, and how would that force you to change it? This begs the further question of what exactly is a man to you? My image of a "man" is like what I have for everyone else, a human being with a human heart, and with human feelings. Does wearing a floral print blouse instead of a flannel shirt make someone any less of a person? I'm confused...

Karen

Karen, I was not relating this to someone who loves his male side as much as the female side, but what about the women whose " image" of her man has all but disappeared. Do you not think women bereave for the man they loved ?
Sexual orientation is based on sexual attraction and when a man relates to himself as more feminine than male, then if you are not attracted to women, do you honestly think that the relationship will be unaffected?

[lucy Boo]

I agree that a true crossdresser likes both his male and female self, this may fluctuate from time to time, but I know where Maria is coming from, I, personally have been guilty at times of loving "lucy" at the expense of my male self and my partner. We are guys who dress and at the end of the day, some of us are lucky to have understanding partners and I wouldn't want to get to a stage where my partner starts to bereave about the man she first met

[Marla S]

There have been a few recent posts about " loving Yourself" this was directed at loving your feminine side and while I have no issue with this, I wondered how many of you loved the man inside you actually are?
Your argument is very valid IMO.

I can't say that the split personality approach (fem self, male self) is something I really get myself (tried it of course), but I don't have to.
Personally I think I am becoming in touch with both aspects. My fem aspects even help and allow me to like my male ones.
It's sometimes a bit confusing though, because reality and dreaming merge very easily.

My approach is that I am one person all the time and have male and fem aspects all the time, hence I try to live them all the time.
It works for me. Everything else wouldn't be ME.

But that's certainly not a general recipe for everyone in every situation.

[GypsyKaren]

Karen, I was not relating this to someone who loves his male side as much as the female side, but what about the women whose " image" of her man has all but disappeared. Do you not think women bereave for the man they loved ?

I think this all depends on who you're in love with, the image of the man, or the man himself. If it's the image, then you're living on borrowed time, no matter what it or the changes may be. If you're in love with the man, and I mean truly in love, not some high school daydream, then you have to be in love with the person inside. To me, this means you have connected to their soul, which wears no clothes at all and has no kind of orientation whatsoever.



Sexual orientation is based on sexual attraction and when a man relates to himself as more feminine than male, then if you are not attracted to women, do you honestly think that the relationship will be unaffected?

I have no doubt that the relationship would be affected, any tilt of the balance would do that. The question to me then is this: what are you going to do about it, just throw up your hands and leave, or remain committed to finding a new balance? To me, sexual attraction has absolutely zip to do with image, body parts, nothing on the physical plane, it goes back again to a desire to connect with that soul. I realize that everyone has a different view on this, but I can only speak for myself.

I see that you're new here, Maria (BTW,welcome to the forum!), so let me give you some small background...I'm a Pre-Op Transsexual, scheduled for Gender Reassignment Surgery this October, and very happily married, which we intend to remain, no matter what. Before I made the decision to have my surgery, I told my p-doc that I couldn't do that to my wife, because she went into our marriage not knowing about me, but she did expect at least a physical male. Her response to that was "Is that all you are to her, a penis?" Now you have to admit that I'm shattering whatever image she might have had about me in the most drastic of ways, with no turning back. The thing is, I knew I was more to her than that, and we have decided to work through it because we have a committed love of souls.

Another point to ponder...what if your husband was in an auto accident tomorrow and could never function sexually again, or if the same happened to you? Sure, that would affect the relationship, but wouldn't you each try your damnedest to work through it? I'm not trying to argue with you about this, so I hope you don't feel that way, I do enjoy serious debate. The thing is this to me...yes, everyone is different, but my life partner and I have found a way to work through this, and though that doesn't mean it's for everyone or that everyone can do it, it does show that it can be done.

Karen

[Mitch23]

I am very much happy with my male self. I think I am a better male for having a female side, far more sensitive and caring for instance. Could write loads on this ...

Mitch

[Felix]

Hope ya don't mind me joining in Ladies it's just I thought this was a great thread that kinda applied to us too. I know I have both sides can't argue with that but my male side is far stronger. I still love the female aspects of myself that keep me in check and I suppose thats like you Ladies when ya talk about keepin the balance cos my female side keeps me in balance. It does scare me at times that my male side dominates and I worry about loosing touch with my female side cos I think it's important xx Felix :hugs:

[Alex!]

I am totally a dude. "Loving oneself" seems silly and Oprah-like. I am happy to be who I am and proud of what I have accomplished, though there are things I regret (don't we all). I do not differentiate between my female and male aspects, they simply merge and form who I am.

[Sandra]

Do you not think women bereave for the man they loved ?

Not in my case I don't think I've lost the man.



Sexual orientation is based on sexual attraction and when a man relates to himself as more feminine than male, then if you are not attracted to women, do you honestly think that the relationship will be unaffected?

Ok a few years ago I thought I was attracted to women but that was short lived, never tried it and don't think about it any more so for me our relationship has not been affected in fact it's improved.

Nigella is not in love with either side, just the human being that she is.

[maria p]

Karen, Firstly let me say I respect the honesty you have with your wife. I have to argue that sexual orientation is indicative to whom we find attractive. I am a straight women and so I wouldn't find another women sexually attractive?, A man who was in touch with his feminine side would be an attribute, but when his identity as a male is marginalised to such an extent that he "loves herself" then he is no longer the man or crossdresser that I fell in love with. There is a bereavement process, bereavement for the man you fell in love with.

Hi Sandra, if you have not lost the man, then he has obviously not marginalised the masculine side of his life.

[Sandra]

Hi Sandra, if you have not lost the man, then he has obviously not marginalised the masculine side of his life.


Yes I would agree there, both male and female aspects are in harmony with each other.

[Chantelle CD]

I totally love the man that i am, when i am not fighting myself for the worlds ideas of what a man is supposed to be, i am a gentle man, caring, sensitive, emotional, loving, expressive. If my SO fell in love with a rough side of myself<witch is not possible, cause i have always been this way> then she may have a really hard time accepting my dressing, and would see a big difference in personality's, I totally believe in balance, and believe that it is so important to give our SO's the male VIEW of our personality, Go to bed as male snuggle up to her as a male, just be with her as a male, if i dont, then she will become lonely, and long for the view of who she fell in love with, this is how she puts the picture of who i am together, because that is what i showed her when we met, and is also the most natural feeling <for me anyways> male body, balanced with male and female emotions, witch to me equals completeness. Dressing allows my female side to come to the surface, allowing me to balanced, mainly because i can not show my female side, out and about, without ridicule, so i need to hide that till i get home, and a few hours or one evening at a time, i can let it out full force, so that i can have that balance, from having to hide it all day.

Chantelle

[RobertaFermina]

Maria P,

I realize it is difficult for you, I understand and sympathise. I take views, however, that may challenge you.

I see Roberta as an expression of my soul in this human cultural playground.
Bob is also such an expression.
The agreements I made stem from my soul's roots, or from my confusion and disconnection from them.
In any case, I make agreements, and it is up to me to keep or renegotiate them.

Unconditional love is just that. Unconditional. Holding true to such a love may be grating or painful. That all may go away, or at least diminish, once you stop resisting what is true, and choose a way to love regardless.

If what happens with your partner makes Marriage itself untenable, then you are a candidate for annulment - as in there never was a complementary pair for the purpose of your cultural/religious context, and thus the Marriage was never truly consummated by 'A Man and A Woman.' If you don't believe in annulment - then you are married, and that's that.

If you need to live according to that set of values, so be it.

If, however, you looked into the soul of your partner and fell deeply into love and partnership with that being, and not the "wrapper" they came with, then you might be a candidate for discovering where relationship with a CD may take you!

For myself, I live deeply and vitally from my soul's masculine roots, and more and more from the feminine ones. My Journey in becoming a Father, and acquitting myself as a Father as my daughter approaches independent adulthood has reshaped me for the better, and deepened my connection to life and my fellows.

My mission in Life (my dream of god working through me): "I create a world of souls opened wide, by speaking my truth and my passion, and cherishing the gift in everyone!" also "I am willing to stand alone for the inherent worth and dignity of every person."

Notice that I cherish the gift in everyone, Not the wrapper. So, for me, your concern about being an unwitting "Lesbian" is insightful, though not compelling.

Even the idea of "lesbian", "hetero", "gay" is the result of a focus upon external manifestations of a Soul - of a living beingness - which is the essential miracle.

That said, someone who presents themselves as "A Man", and turns out to be more complex than that, ought to be true to their explicit implicit word, and 'fess up. There is, however a higher law, "If there be no harm, do what you will." Many CD's hesitate before telling a truth that will bring a harm upon a relationship, and their personal interests. Balancing honesty against harm is a strong challenge for most humans.


CD's in relationship based in pragmatic fact upon unconditional love, rather than having the 'pious profession' of it, will know they are free to reveal their fears, and secrets.

I hope things go well for you!

Be Well,

:rose: Roberta Fermina :rose:

[GypsyKaren]

Karen, Firstly let me say I respect the honesty you have with your wife. I have to argue that sexual orientation is indicative to whom we find attractive. I am a straight women and so I wouldn't find another women sexually attractive?, A man who was in touch with his feminine side would be an attribute, but when his identity as a male is marginalised to such an extent that he "loves herself" then he is no longer the man or crossdresser that I fell in love with. There is a bereavement process, bereavement for the man you fell in love with.



I guess I see things differently than most because there was never a "man" inside me for my life partner to fall in love with, she fell in love with the person, as I did with her. Anyway Maria, I sincerely hope that you can find some sort of balance with this and that it works out well for you both...and I thank you for a wonderful exchange of ideas, that's what makes the world go round.

Karen

[Andi]

No, I do not love my male self. I am very proud of my male self as I have fulfilled every responsibility and expectation my SO, family, friends and society has of a male and then some. However I do wish I could empathize like a woman, converse like a woman, care for individuals more deeply like a woman, be more patient and understanding like a woman, etc. I try and try and I don't seem to make progress on those fronts. A part of the reason I crossdress is an attempt to get in the mode of being a woman but that doesn't help either. I conclude that I'm wired male and no matter how female I want to be inside my head it'll never happen.

[Fab Karen]

My approach is that I am one person all the time and have male and fem aspects all the time, hence I try to live them all the time.

I relate to this statement. I may look male or female, but I am always ME.

[Deanna2]

There are a number of people who have difficulty with identity regardless of their circumstances -CD or otherwise.

I wear femme gear for the simple pleasure and comfort of wearing femme gear. It has nothing to do with gender issues or sexual orientation. I can come inside, get out of a daggy pair of coveralls covered in crap from working outside, have a shower get into a lovely femme sweater and mini skirt and carry on with whatever. Apart from thinking me quite strange for a variety of reasons other than wearing femme gear, my wife has no issues either.

[O2B Barbara]

What I take from comments of loving yourself applies to everyone, not just crossdresseres. We all are a makeup of various thoughts and feelings. We all could do with a little self love to accept us as we are. This in turn passes to others around us. I am both male and female. Both parts love my wife completely. I have no problem dressing, being and performaing as a male. There is still a part that is female and has desires also.

Did I digress? If so I appologise.

[Dixie]

I love and hate all of me on an equal oppertunity basis!:D:heehee:

[Glenda58]

I love the man inside. I love taking women out dancing it's the only time I get to lead a woman around I love going to dinner with a woman and making love to her. It's just I also like dressing up and being pretty at times to and most women I know don't like that. I will give them what they want but I also want what I need to make me happy. It has to be a give and take relationship.