gurls, girls or Women

[wannabie]

Hi,

I've been reading alot of these post and I really have to object to the term gurls.

I really don't consider myself a girl(a five to 12 year old) or gurl(fake girl, if that the meaning).

How about Ladies or Women. I'm sure most of us here are over 18 and when we talk about our CDing we are relating about woman to other woman.

In that way I don't have to feel like I'm wearing pigtails and bows.

[Kieron Andrew]

i always address all you girls whether mtf or GG, as ladies.........unless im told otherwise that the person doesnt like it

[Tamara Croft]

We've had this question before... http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53062

[Chrysoprase]

Hi,

I've been reading alot of these post and I really have to object to the term gurls.


I have to agree. "gurls" is pretty demeaning.

[Chantelle CD]

If I use gurl, its because its a typo, i tend to sound out words as I'm typing, thinking about it now though, a woman sounds more our age, a lady is delicate and pretty, girl and boy has a young feel to it.

[Carolka GG]

We may have had the question before, but it keeps coming up for a reason, as far as I can see. :happy:

My personal vote is for "women". Dictionary definition of "girl" is "female child" (can also be the equally demaning maid, miss, damsel, or hired girl) and I believe we are all over 18 - or supposed to be. In my neck of the woods, albeit happily leftist, the term used more frequently in everyday conversation is "women" or "womyn". These terms carry more power, so lots of people are still afraid to use them ~ and (yup, I'll say it again) traditionally men have not wanted to share power with women. If we are kept children, of course they won't have to.

Even "ladies" - while polite and lovely - implies the stereotype with all of the constraints that go with it. :(

I thought this forum was about breaking away from those sorts of constraints. :happy:

Words are powerful in the long run....if we have an opportunity to make the language we use more equitable, it's usually better for us as a species. :happy:

Even our bureaucratic governments seem to have figured that out at long last! :D

Carolka

[insearchofme]

I'm not a woman, a lady or a girl. Since I am none of the afore mentioned "gurl" is OK with me.

[chucks]

how about grrl? :heehee:

[Billijo49504]

Sorry, butr I use gurls for us CD or TS gurls, and girls from the GG on the net.....BJ

[prettywithsideburns]

I for one don't care what anyone calls me as long as it's not intended as an insult.

[Kate Simmons]

It matters little to me, although my choice is to be called by my name rather than a title or pronoun.:happy:

[sobe1ove GG]

I like to be called a lady. And a miss. Like, I hate when people call me ma'am. I'm 24 for heck's sake!

But, yeah, I'm a lady.

(Oh, and I like pigtails and bows! Then again, I'm hella girly.)

Anyway, this is just a GG's opinion. A 'genetic/genuine girl'. Even us real women can't get away from the term 'girl' in the CD community.

Sobe

[Daintre]

I prefer to be called Jen

[DianaGomez]

Well, I understand your concern but as for me, I'm a girl, thats what I feel and consider. Yes, a woman but for many of us, no matter the age, this is like going through puberty again. Sorry! Kisses....

[sterling12]

Object all you want, you have that right. But, people on here will still be using "gurl." I do it myself, it's an easy way to distinguish ourselves from GGs, (Whoops that's probably another one you might object to....so demeaning.)

Seriously, is it really that important? I have a feeling that 1000 years from now, no anthropologist will be studying our thoughts and it "really don't matter!"

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Leah B]

The word "girl" is only insulting given that the term "man" is the opposite; girl implies youth. But lately it seems that "boy" is tossed about among women too. Personally, I think both are good for casual use, but should be used carefully since some may find them offensive.

As for this board, It is unacceptable that GG refers to the women of the board, and GM refers to the men. I advocate that either GG become GW or GM becomes GB. Looking at the most practical solution, I think GMs should be henceforth referred to as GBs.

[kerrianna]

I can understand why people like to be called different terms. They're all legit reasons.

So what I like is "girl"

I know as an adult it should be woman, although adult men are sometimes affectionately called the boys, and adult women called the girls, both by either gender.

More importantly for me, besides the fact that I feel like a teenage girl in many ways (learning stuff GWs (gg) learned when they were younger), I have the privelage of not having the term girl used to belittle me. In fact I WANT to give that power I have as a male away. I actually like the way being called girl releases me from the male power arena. I can understand why many women wouldn't want that though.

As for variations on it's spelling I do not want to distinguish myself from Natal Females (just to confuse everyone more :p) . I don't want to be seen as not-really-a-girl gurl gyrl grrl etc. I want to be one of the GIRLS. :p


Oh yeah, I agree with Leah. I have no problem also being refered to as a Genetic Boy. I think the concept of Genetic refers to 'born as' (which is why Natal is also suitable) and we aren't born as men we are born as boys. LOL, I typed 'we are born as girls' first. :p

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Well, though most may be surprised by this, I'm a feminist.
At first I bristled here at the term "GG" and would prefer "GW".
However, after some thought, consulting with Will (as in Shakespear) I decided that a rose by any other name, would smell as sweet.
So, GG it is.
But, I use the term "grrlz" and "boiz" as many of you may notice.
Kew's 2

[kerrianna]

But, I use the term "grrlz" and "boiz" as many of you may notice.
Kew's 2

That's just cuz you get 10 points everytime you use a 'Z' :heehee:

[Victoria Anne]

you know I have never given thought to the issue as I have personally used all the afore mentioned terms. Thinking about it I do prefer to be called Viccy or refered to as a women or lady.

[O2B Barbara]

I for one don't care what anyone calls me as long as it's not intended as an insult.


Sounds good to me.

[Falcor]

I don't mind any term really,most are said in affection.....old girl?
OK as well.

[Kelsy]

With all due respect to the ggs , I know that I am a gm and I would not like to be accused of high jacking a term but I prefer "girl". That's what love and they are who I try to emulate. I have been called every name in the book but I have never objected to being called a girl:happy:

Jennifer

[Tamara Croft]

As for this board, It is unacceptable that GG refers to the women of the board, and GM refers to the men. I advocate that either GG become GW or GM becomes GB. Looking at the most practical solution, I think GMs should be henceforth referred to as GBs.I've told you before, aint happening, been there, done that, had the vote, etc etc, GG stays!!! :Angry3:

[Fab Karen]

I've told you before, aint happening, been there, done that, had the vote, etc etc, GG stays!!! :Angry3:

GG is an old phrase of the community, & it rolls off the tongue easily.
Btw, if I'm not in girl-mode, I'd be flattered to be called a boy.:happy:

[Di]

The word "girl" is only insulting given that the term "man" is the opposite; girl implies youth. But lately it seems that "boy" is tossed about among women too. Personally, I think both are good for casual use, but should be used carefully since some may find them offensive.

As for this board, It is unacceptable that GG refers to the women of the board, and GM refers to the men. I advocate that either GG become GW or GM becomes GB. Looking at the most practical solution, I think GMs should be henceforth referred to as GBs.


For heavens sake get over it will you. We voted on it, been there done that. I've found it in the commuity we are called RG ( real girl) or GG.
So what big deal ...who cares...... in the scheme of life .....I AM sure there are bigger things to worry about.
__________________

[Leah B]

I've told you before, aint happening, been there, done that, had the vote, etc etc, GG stays!!! :Angry3:


You told me nothing before. Last time I brought this up, I came back the next day and the thread was gone with no explanation.

And besides, I think GM is what needs changing. There are too many user names with GG in them, and I like the alliteration.

[suchacutie]

DRAG and DRAB use girl and boy....

I do agree that there is something asymmetrical about GG and GM....but isn't GM genetic male? So shouldn't the symmetry be GF and GM for genetic female and genetic male?

After reading the posts I wonder if the gurl/grrl became common because of some early attempts at dressing as younger women, which often seems to moderate after time to dress to our age in order to become a bit more transparent in public....just a thought.

tina

[Sandra]

As for this board, It is unacceptable that GG refers to the women of the board, and GM refers to the men. I advocate that either GG become GW or GM becomes GB. Looking at the most practical solution, I think GMs should be henceforth referred to as GBs.

GG = Gentic Girl which is what we are
GM = Gentic Male which I what you are


So what the heck is your problem :Angry3:

[Leah B]

Why is this such an inflammatory topic and why is it that the GGs are the most pissed about it? Is feminism really this dead? Is advocating equality really worth the venom you're aiming at me?

And you may have had this discussion before, but we aren't all board veterans. Does this keep coming up again and again at this board? Are you tired of hearing people complain? Perhaps its an issue because it should be.

Where I come from, boys are the opposite of girls. If you're a girl, I'm not a male, I'm a boy. Why are women diminuated and men referred to like test subjects? As I said above, don't change GG, change GM. Has there been a vote about that too?

I suspect this topic too will get nixed. I've noticed that debate and controversy don't last long on this board, but I'm imploring you, admins. Don't nix a topic just because you don't like it. Debate can be positive, and the issue is at least worth discussion.

[Sandra]

As I said above, don't change GG, change GM.

You now say don't change GG

but here you said



I advocate that either GG become GW or GM becomes GB


You can't seem to make your mind up.

[Steff26]

I prefer Steff, or if you are mad at me Stephanie.

[Leah B]

I said

I advocate that either GG become GW or GM becomes GB.

Pay attention to the bolded portion. Then I continue:


Looking at the most practical solution, I think GMs should be henceforth referred to as GBs.

To clarify this, I don't think it makes sense to change GG. It's not practical because GG is well established, because there are a million usernames with a GG in them and it'd be a huge headache to change that, and because GG has nifty alliteration. Therefore it would be more practical to change GM to GB, because doing so would not face any for those problems.

I've been consistent.

[sobe1ove GG]

Uhh... I don't really get why everyone's attacking Leah B.

After all, he responded to the thread with a post that responded directly to the original topic. It seems like some opinions aren't accepted here or something.

And maybe I'm ignorant, but I never saw where there was a vote about name changes or lots of discussion. This is the first I've heard of that. I'm glad it wasn't me who said this. I certainly wouldn't want to be yelled at for something I didn't even realize.

And if all that happened before we were members, we shouldn't really be penalized for it.

Sobe

[Wendy me]

I said


Pay attention to the bolded portion. Then I continue:



To clarify this, I don't think it makes sense to change GG. It's not practical because GG is well established, because there are a million usernames with a GG in them and it'd be a huge headache to change that, and because GG has nifty alliteration. Therefore it would be more practical to change GM to GB, because doing so would not face any for those problems.

I've been consistent.


lol OK first off we did this whole thing before like it's been said .... this is the way we are going to do things here on this site .... how ever if and when you get or start your own site feel free to use what ever you would like ....

[Dixie]

Oh PUHLEASE!!!!

[karynspanties]

Well since I have absolutely nothing better to do.....build a bridge and get over it. I am a gurl!!!!!

[Alex!]

Actually, I'm ok with crossdresser. I'm a man who crossdresses. There is no mystery.

I love women too much to want to become one of them. Does that make sense? :)

[Shelly Preston]

The word "girl" is only insulting given that the term "man" is the opposite; girl implies youth. But lately it seems that "boy" is tossed about among women too. Personally, I think both are good for casual use, but should be used carefully since some may find them offensive.

As for this board, It is unacceptable that GG refers to the women of the board, and GM refers to the men. I advocate that either GG become GW or GM becomes GB. Looking at the most practical solution, I think GMs should be henceforth referred to as GBs.


Hi Leah
You seem to want to have a debate and argue both sides of your own argument just because of practicallities

You advocate GW should be used in place of GG which I personally disagree with.


You told me nothing before. Last time I brought this up, I came back the next day and the thread was gone with no explanation.

And besides, I think GM is what needs changing. There are too many user names with GG in them, and I like the alliteration.


Now you decide its GM that needs changing ?

You cant have it both ways or do you want to have GW and GB as the standard

It does not matter which letters get chosen there will always be some who disagree


If it was a big issue it would have come up more often

While the debate is healthy I dont see it changing

[LaFem]

I think spelling is important. Gurl, womyn, and any other affectation of wrong spellings are hard to read and a little bit phony. I consider myself female inside, and I don't want to use a made up silly spelling that indicates I am not female. I want to be a GIRL, not a gurl, or gerbil, or anything else that indicates I am not really female. (At least on this forum.)

I don't want to offend, but that's how I feel.

[Steff26]

I am like you, I am a girl inside, not gurl, I never wanted to be a gurl, when I started this journey early in life, I did not even know there were "gurls" out there. But, as far as this forum goes, I use "gurl" to indicate what I am. It is not who I am though, I am Stephanie, or Steff.

[Chrysoprase]

GG = Gentic Girl which is what we are
GM = Gentic Male which I what you are


So what the heck is your problem :Angry3:

Didn't they teach you in high school or college that genetics does not determine the sex/gender of a member of a species and it is conditions during the the reproductive cycle that determines it?

[tammie]

Hi Everyone: I use the word gurl as a CD rather than a GG. It is not understood by me as demeaning at all. I am not a fullon CD, that is to say I could not pass at midnight in a coal mine. I am rather a "underdresser".

I wonder if we could use the word "goils" as Oliveoil did in the Popeye cartoons of my youth. She was Popeye's GG SO with the baby Sweetpea. It was never explained who fathered that baby if U recall. Very interesting to ponder.

[kerrianna]

I can see this is just going around in circles, but for the record I think changing GM to GB works just fine for me. :happy:

The impression of equality is what it's about.

It might not be a big thing to some people, but to others it is. So if it's not a big thing to some people why not just change GM to GB? I don't care if I'm called Boy. I kinda like it...except for being a Girl. :p

[Sandra]

Didn't they teach you in high school or college that genetics does not determine the sex/gender of a member of a species and it is conditions during the the reproductive cycle that determines it?



Well genetics make up your gender and this is done at conception and nobody can control this, unless the genes are manipulated artificially, naturally mother nature has the upper hand here.

A persons sexuality can be genetic but can also be manipulated by nurture.





And maybe I'm ignorant, but I never saw where there was a vote about name changes or lots of discussion


If you search the in the gg forum you can find it there and it was decided to leave the GG after the name, this decision was made before you joined the forum.


Wannabie

I apolgoise for going a bit of topic, now back to topic :)

The term girl or gurl are general terms used on the this forum and others, there are others who do not like these terms but accept that it is used generally. Me personally I do not like the term gurl but accept that some members accept gurl as an alternative to girl as a means of differentiating between CDers and GGs.

[rickie121x]

I certainly don't have any trouble, nor take any offense in the notions of identifications.... Just don't call me "late for dinner".

Goodness, don't we all understand to whom the reference is made? :2c:

Rickie

[StephanieH]

:happy:Actually, I quite like the word "gurl" and think it's very appropriate for many of us, not demeaning at all. I am not a woman, or a lady, or a girl, I'm a guy who, for whatever reason, likes to look and act like a member of the opposite sex. Therefore, I am a guy who likes to emulate being a girl. "Gurl" somes that up for me. "Guy" + "Girl" = "Gurl" Half guy, half girl - where the harm or demeaning thing in that?

Later all and take care! :happy:

[Sandra]

:happy:Actually, I quite like the word "gurl" and think it's very appropriate for many of us, not demeaning at all. I am not a woman, or a lady, or a girl, I'm a guy who, for whatever reason, likes to look and act like a member of the opposite sex. Therefore, I am a guy who likes to emulate being a girl. "Gurl" somes that up for me. "Guy" + "Girl" = "Gurl" Half guy, half girl - where the harm or demeaning thing in that?

Later all and take care! :happy:

Nice explaination, I don't think gurl is demeaning either but for some reason just don't like it.

[Chrysoprase]

Well genetics make up your gender and this is done at conception

I guess they only gloss over genetics and biology in schools now :(

no matter, the argument is becoming pointless.

[Sheila]

Okay i am Jess.................. I am the SO of a crossdresser ......... I chose to have SO after my name because for me GG means ( and this is just my opinion ..... not designed to cause a riot) ........ Girly Girl and that I have never ever been ............... and that term for me was decided on long long before I joined this community. At the end of the day does it really matter what the initials are or stand for so long as they are not insulting ................ there are issues surrounding CDing and the relevant aspects of it far more worthy of our attention than a couple of letters AGAIN just my 0.02

[dancinginthedark]

Not that this was the orginal question but I generally use the term "ladies" when referring to my CD or TS friends who are MTF and gents or guys when referring to all my friends in the FTM section.


[...]
And you may have had this discussion before, but we aren't all board veterans. [...]


I have no problem discussing issues that have come up before. As you say some folks missed out on those other discussions. I see the use of the term GG as a necessary label so folks here know they are discussing things with a GG and not a CD or TS. I don't really care for labels in a negative sense, as in name calling or mud slinging, but they sure can come in handy and make learning who is what faster. I can just ask someone, "Are you CD or TS? Are you MTF or FTM? Are you cisgenderd? Are you GG or GM?" So I see these terms as just shortcuts.


http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=pf#faq_gg_forum

Leah if you go to the rules/faq link for private section memberships I provided here, and go to item 3:Relevant information: - section C in the GG section rules you will see that the reason so many have GG after their user name.


Now this is just a guess on my part, but I am guessing the use of GG after the name was so other members would be aware the person was in fact a GG and not a CD or TS. With so many members it would get mighty confusing if we didn't have a few labels. I was forever stating "btw I am a GG" when posting to a thread so the reader would be aware. Sometimes I am sure it doesn't matter much but there have been times it did matter. I hope this helps out and makes a bit of sense.

IF you have any other questions please email or PM the member in question, myself included, as we have really taken this thread off topic.
BTW taking a thread off of topic is considered rude so the thread starter is within their rights to request those posts be deleted or a mod may decide to do so on their own.

dancin

[Leah B]

You advocate GW should be used in place of GG which I personally disagree with.

Where? Where do I say this? I said one or the other needs changing, and it makes more sense to change GM to GB. I never said anything about "GW," that's for certain. If I were to say GG should be changed to match GM, I would say it should be GF, since female is the opposite of male, not woman. But I'm not arguing that. I'll repeat this so I'm not misunderstood again: GG is FINE, it's the other one we should change.

I haven't once said otherwise. Perhaps my first post is misleading in this respect, but if you read it closely, I'm arguing that GM be changed to GB. GG is casual, GM is ...clinical.

I've got a question. Why NOT use similar terms to specify the sexes? Why should we KEEP using terms that are incongruent? Because that's what already being done? Is the status quo really more important than equality?

And there may always be people who are dissatisfied with ANY solution, but that does not mean that all solutions are equal. There are still people who are upset that women got the vote. This subject doesn't have the gravity of universal suffrage, but I still feel that it's important.

If there is ANY place where gender words should matter, it should be here. As crossdressers, and those who love us, we should be especially sensitive to matters of gender equality, shouldn't we? Were this videogames.com, I would be much more conciliatory. Here, this is a fight that is absolutely worth picking, and I will not apologize for my convictions.

However, I never intended to offend anyone. This appears to be a sore spot particularly among admins here, and perhaps I spoke too bluntly, implying that they were foolish for making things as they are. That is not how I feel. Still, the administration should not be above questioning their own decisions. This topic is worth continued renewal. If you do not feel strongly about the issue, I respect that. Likewise, I do not deserve to be disrespected for feeling stongly about it. Feel free to disagree with me, but ad hominem attacks are unwarranted.


. With so many members it would get mighty confusing if we didn't have a few labels. I was forever stating "btw I am a GG" when posting to a thread so the reader would be aware.

I agree completely.


IF you have any other questions please email or PM the member in question, myself included, as we have really taken this thread off topic.

This thread is about labels. Specifically, about the labels girls, gurls, and women. In my opinion this is the perfect topic to discuss the label Genuine Girl, Genuing Woman/Female, and Genuine Gurl, as well as their corrolary terms Geunine Boy, Genuine Man/Male, and genuine boi.

If you prefer, I could start another thread, one even more specifically dealing with the GG/GM issue. As I said before, last time I brought the topic up, the thread was erased with no explanation. I had always assumed that subsequent posts became personal and inflammatory, and figured that admins cut it off due to that. It did not occur to me that this topic might be taboo (why would it be?).

I would be happy to speak directly with the admins on this matter, perhaps via IM, PM, Email or even telephone, provided that I am taken seriously. I do feel that this issue should be available for public discussion, but if private discussion is necessary to maintain a respectful tone, then perhaps that would be best.

Apologies BTW, for consecutive posting. I've got a lot to respond to :)

[SweetCaroline]

I like being called Miss rather than Ms. or Madam, and I'm 34, even tho I know some feministic women consider the term "Miss" demeaning suggesting a lack of maturity and emphising marital statis. I'm fine with it since I've never been married, and still think that I'm youthful enough to be called a "miss".

Then again I'm also a man, so why do I care.

And yes, I have been called Miss when in my boy clothes, I even started a thread about it. (aren't I a lucky girl...:tongueout)

[Kelsy]

Girls, Gurls, Gurlz can't we all just get along!!:D

Jennifer:happy:

[Kieron Andrew]

Why is this such an inflammatory topic and why is it that the GGs are the most pissed about it?
ummmm hello :wave: ......you want someone other than a GG to post to you, ok here you are then, an FTM.....

Its quite simple you know :rolleyes:.....GG = means genetic girl & GM = Genetic male/man, and genetic of course means born of those genes, what is so hard to get about that.......seems perfectly reasonable to use those terms, and the transgendered community have been using them for years.....ok so they have kinda scrapped RG which in case you really didnt know means Real girl, but they scrapped it cos no one is any the less real than the next person.....so do you get it now? are you happy that someone other than a GG spoke up?

[Julia Welch]

I'm a man not a girl....I just happen to enjoy wearing girls clothes.

[Jannette H]

WE are all ladies, We dress like ladies, we try to look like a lady, we try our best to emulate a lady. I shall always address all of you as ladies or by your name

[Leah B]

ummmm hello :wave: ......you want someone other than a GG to post to you, ok here you are then, an FTM.....

Its quite simple you know :rolleyes:.....GG = means genetic girl & GM = Genetic male/man, and genetic of course means born of those genes, what is so hard to get about that.......seems perfectly reasonable to use those terms, and the transgendered community have been using them for years.....ok so they have kinda scrapped RG which in case you really didnt know means Real girl, but they scrapped it cos no one is any the less real than the next person.....so do you get it now? are you happy that someone other than a GG spoke up?


An FTM is a GG. You've got two X chromosomes and no other sex chromosomes, right? Then you're genetically female, or to put it casually, you're a "GG." That's why you need the Ft before the M. I'm MtF, but my private board is the "GM" forum.

And I wouldn't care if you were Sylvester Stallone, this isn't a personal affront to you, so why are you offended?

Again "Because we've always done it this way" is a awful reason to keep doing something. Some change is for the better. You made my point with the whole RG thing. RG didn't work, so it was scrapped. The N word didn't work either, except for the majority that wasn't offended by it and saw nothing wrong with using it.

And now that I think about it, Genetic Girl makes no sense. A girl is a female child. How can someone be a child genetically? Of course, in many contexts "girl" is just the casual word to refer to all females. "Male," on the other hand, is the clinical or formal word to refer to men. This language is just another place where women aren't taken as seriously as men,.

[Kieron Andrew]

An FTM is a GG. You've got two X chromosomes and no other sex chromosomes, right? Then you're genetically female, or to put it casually, you're a "GG." That's why you need the Ft before the M. I'm MtF, but my private board is the "GM" forum.

And I wouldn't care if you were Sylvester Stallone, this isn't a personal affront to you, so why are you offended?

Again "Because we've always done it this way" is a awful reason to keep doing something. Some change is for the better. You made my point with the whole RG thing. RG didn't work, so it was scrapped. The N word didn't work either, except for the majority that wasn't offended by it and saw nothing wrong with using it.

And now that I think about it, Genetic Girl makes no sense. A girl is a female child. How can someone be a child genetically? Of course, in many contexts "girl" is just the casual word to refer to all females. "Male," on the other hand, is the clinical or formal word to refer to men. This language is just another place where women aren't taken as seriously as men,.

:Angry3:Ok NOW im offended & angry as an FTM!!! An FTM is not a GG and never will be, get your facts right before you go around saying things like that, ESPECIALLY on a Trans forum, where do you get off saying that, just because i so happen to be born as what you perceive as a GG, doent change the fact i am not and will never be a GG! I happen to be one that was born in the wrong body, I am male in everyway EXCEPT my body!, i have NEVER identified as female, i wouldnt even know where to begin to know how to act like one!, granted there are ftm that identify as both male and female, but more stronger to the male side most of the time, but that doesnt make them any the less transgendered or even male, i am a transman and im well and truly proud of that fact!!!!, also as you are well aware there are GGs on this forum and they have openly stated they do not identify as male therefore they are not FTM, to go around saying this you not only insult every FTM on this board but you also go and insult ALL the GG's here too, and i believe you have a GG partner so well done you've just insulted her too!

[Leah B]

:Angry3:Ok NOW im offended & angry as an FTM!!! An FTM is not a GG and never will be, get your facts right before you go around saying things like that, ESPECIALLY on a Trans forum, where do you get off saying that, just because i so happen to be born as what you perceive as a GG, doent change the fact i am not and will never be a GG! I happen to be one that was born in the wrong body, I am male in everyway EXCEPT my body!, i have NEVER identified as female, i wouldnt even know where to begin to know how to act like one!, granted there are ftm that identify as both male and female, but more stronger to the male side most of the time, but that doesnt make them any the less transgendered or even male, i am a transman and im well and truly proud of that fact!!!!, also as you are well aware there are GGs on this forum and they have openly stated they do not identify as male therefore they are not FTM, to go around saying this you not only insult every FTM on this board but you also go and insult ALL the GG's here too, and i believe you have a GG partner so well done you've just insulted her too!

My intention was not to offend you, but despite intentions, I have done so. Words are powerful, aren't they? That you feel strongly about alabel should give you sympathy for my assertion. If you're within your right to be offended by labelling, you should be more understanding about my feelings when I am offended about labels. You may feel that my objections are trifling, but this does NOT give you the right to belittle me (and rolling your eyes and speaking down to me IS belittling me).

I genuinely and honestly apologize for offending you. I've never considered you anything less than a man, Kieron. That you are genetically female doesn't matter a lick to me. Still, it would be a lie to say you are not genetically female. As unjust an regretteble as this is in your circumstance, it does not change the truth.

My understanding of the term "GG" was etymologically derived. I examined the two terms "genetic" and "girl" seperately and inferred the meaning of the entire phrase from there. Via this interpretation, my description of you would not be inaccurate. However, the English language is not always so straightforward. I might have been mistaken in my understanding of the term "GG." I was definitely unorthodox in my interpretation of the word, which was intentional, but I did not believe it contrary to the meaning of the phrase when I wrote it. I'll defer to you on this issue, however. Your greater experience in the trans community lends you greater credence here.

On my main point, the lack of parallelism between the terms GG and GM, however, I can not defer. I do not deserve to be put down for expressing my opinion on the matter.

P.S. Sharon, what's the deal? My final comment was not in opposition to any board policy we have. I said nothing inflammatory, but with the mark of a censor on my post, it leaves the door open for people to assume the worst about what I said. Because you cannot adjudicate from a position of neutrality, perhaps it would be best if you deferred post edits to one not so involved in this discussion.

My reply to you -- since you felt a need to post this to me here, not to mention the private message that you sent -- which, by the way, is the only correct way to contact me when you have a comment on how I choose to moderate -- is that you need to loosen up and try to debate an issue as an adult. Stop feeling a need to raise the bar each time you reply in a thread when someone else has a reply to what you have said. And once you have your say, learn to let it go and just agree to disagree on a subject. Quoting another member is fine, it's what we do, but when you choose to overstep that lenient allowance by naming names and saying nasty things to them, then I will react in the best way as I see fit at that particular moment.
-- Sharon

[Tamara Croft]

This thread is done, if you want to continue this debate, then take it to PM. If you have an issue with a post being edited, then take it up via PM with the mod/admin who edited it.