I never see 'us'

[Patti Remick]

Ive been a CDr my whole life. Im very closeted and do not go out dressed. Without a lot of professional help (makeup, hair, nails, etc) I cannot pass. I do underdress - that is I go out weraing my female clothes under my male DRAB and I suspect many of us do that. However I see so many of you girls here that are so beautiful and so many that say that they are 'out and about' to varying degrees. Many say that they shop en-femme (or at least partially en-femme) at department stores, malls, etc. Ive read that it is estimated that 5 percent (+/-) of males CD (although many are closeted like me). Yet I have never see 'us'. And its not from lack of trying. As its said 'it takes one to know one' I feel I know what to look for. Im sure some of us girls can, but being 100 percent feminine is difficult. Bone structure, body shape, body size, facial expressions, hair, clothing, gait, etc can be difficult for any CD to 100 percent be female. I always keep a sharp eya when I shop and make it a point to look over the womens departments whenever I go shopping (even if Im not shopping in them myself). Im not faulting anyone Im just trying to understand why this is. Maybe its me.

Love and Hugs,
Patti Remick

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

I have been actively out shopping en-femme hundreds of times and have only spotted a crossdresser on three seperate instances over a period of say 30 years. So I would say that it is a rare happening but I can say that thousands of people have seen me out shopping and the odds say that at least some of them are crossdressers themselves so it does happen. I only wish sometime that someone would come up and introduce themselves as a crossdresser also and strike up a conversation with me. I have been in a position to show my support for the people I have seen as crossdressers and I think that it eased there minds a little to know they were accepted. I would only hope we would all show our support for others if the chance should arise.

[Emily Ann Brown]

I saw one at the grocery store last week.


Emily Ann

[Karren H]

Guess the ones of us that are out are doing too good a job!! Lol. The chance that you see a crossdresser out enfemme is about the same as seeing an albino.. Unless your in San Francisco!! Saw a bunch ........... Crossdressers not albinos. Hehe But in most places, they are out there but a rare bread for sure..

Karren

[JennMW]

Hopefully, some signifigant percentage of us that are out and about are passing somer signifigant percentage of the time.

After all that is the goal for many of us!

One BIG difference that I have observed is that most people take most other people at face value and never even think to ask the question "Is she a he?"

I have seen maybe half a dozen in the general population over the last 25 years. In talking to people I was with aftewards, only on one occasion did they also admit to seeing one.

You can't be asking yourself that question ALL of the time, so I'm guessing that some have gone below your CDar. :heehee:

[sobe1ove GG]

Ya know, I see a lot of them. Once when Leah and I went shopping for lady clothes at Old Navy, there was a guy there partially en femme doing the same thing. And I saw a few more here and there...

Oh! And me and Leah went to a free block party and this lady who wanted us to sign up for a time share (blech) was some type of TG/TS. and then we turn around, at the same block party, and there is a guy doing some type of comedy. He looked JUST like a guy, but had a complete girl's voice, so I'm thinking he was FTM TG/TS.

Anyway, my point is that I see a lot of you guys around. I am really perceptive though. I'm always the one to spot them and Leah is like, 'really?' and has to do a bunch of staring in order to get it. :)

Sobe

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

I can say that this girl has a hard time being passable but I don't do this for anyone but myself. If anyone sees me they surely would guess that I am a man in a dress, I only wish that I could look as good as I do in my mind.

[ChanDelle]

Well, I've seen what I believe are two this year already. Seems like, based on this limited sample, more of us are "out" now. Both times it was at Costco. One of these could have been TS as she had little makeup on but definitely presented mostly as female and beginning to get some curves. We almost ran into each other, and I just looked her in the eye and gave her a warm smile and a giggle, as I would anyone else (especially women as they're very special to me). Since I'm very male looking in drab, I feel any more contact would be intrusive.

Chandelle

[Karren H]

I saw one at the grocery store last week.
Emily Ann

See your reflection in the security office two way mirror again?

:tongueout

Karren

[windycissy]

I think it's like a bell-shaped curve, very few of us can fool all of the people all of the time, and a few of us could never pass in a million years, and the rest can pass at least some of the time with the right clothes, makeup and bearing in the right situation....the same goes in reverse for women: some are so mannish that they may get mistaken for guys sometimes! Last week I was in the woman's fitting room at GAP when I heard what was an obvious guy's voice talking to another girl about the dress "he" was trying on....well, imagine my shock when this person walked out and was totally a woman!

[Ellie C]

:tongueoutim same as you , i go out with fem underwear under drab , is my v's up to the people lol , im me :)

[sandra-leigh]

Yet I have never see 'us'. And its not from lack of trying.

I do, though infrequently, and I'm usually not paying much attention. The places I shop assure me that they get a noticable number, though not necessarily every day; some (e.g. "Tall Girl") say "lots". And one of the womens boutiques I shop at had never noticed that CDs have been going to her for years -- I was the apparently the first one to shop openly there (she's had others shop openly since, and she is always kind to us.)

Also, when I shop openly, it isn't unusual (though not everyday) for some of the younger SAs to indicate that they have CD/TG friends.

[Joy Carter]

I drove to Chicago recently. I had on a mint green polyester top a pair of casual pants and low heels. I had to make a bathroom stop and walked into a subway. No reaction from the customers there. Then latter got hungry and stopped a BK's. Only reaction was one elderly couple who both looked like they were about to lose their dentures. Then one last bathroom break and again no reactions. I by no means look like a girl. Just that I acted liked I belonged there and just went on about my business. But by all means if you see me out and about I'll talk with you.:D

[Mitzi]

Hate to admit it, but I'm guilty of being selective as to whom (a CD en femme) I'd approach.

If I were en drab and see a CD who obviously is a "guy in a dress", I'd probably not approach him/her. On the other hand, if she were quite passable, yes I would. I've even approached a GG, thinking she was CD, oops...

Mitzi

[Jamie001]

I have never even seen any males that dress in a feminine manner other than wearing earrings that are now commonplace. Most makes do not have the courage to go anything different that other males. Males are truely pack-animals and have a "pack mentality". It is really sad...

[Babette]

I may live in the middle of nowhere, but I seem to notice "us" in so many places. It may surprise some that I have actually noticed more FTM as opposed to MTF. Who only knows the answer to this dilemma.

I suspect that most of us do not dress 24/7. We are only occasional dressers as circumstances allow.

As it has been discussed before but there are signs that Cds sometimes manifest - shaved legs, painted nails, or the forever troublesome, missed speck of remaining eye make-up.

What would it be like if all crossdressers portrayed a glow in the dark that could only be seen by other crossdressers? That would be interesting!

Babette

[sandra-leigh]

What would it be like if all crossdressers portrayed a glow in the dark that could only be seen by other crossdressers? That would be interesting!


Well, it would answer the age-old question, "Am I really a cross-dresser or not?!" :)
And it'd answer the question of "How many of us are there anyhow??"

I predict there would soon be market for a glow-suppressor!

[prettywithsideburns]

it probably depends on where you live. in portland I see crossdressers and transexuals all the time. and that's of course not counting the passable ones.

still too nervous to go out en femme, but I ride the bus and live in a bad neighborhood.

[Toyah]

Ive been a CDr my whole life. Im very closeted and do not go out dressed. Without a lot of professional help (makeup, hair, nails, etc) I cannot pass. I do underdress - that is I go out weraing my female clothes under my male DRAB and I suspect many of us do that. However I see so many of you girls here that are so beautiful and so many that say that they are 'out and about' to varying degrees. Many say that they shop en-femme (or at least partially en-femme) at department stores, malls, etc. Ive read that it is estimated that 5 percent (+/-) of males CD (although many are closeted like me). Yet I have never see 'us'. And its not from lack of trying. As its said 'it takes one to know one' I feel I know what to look for. Im sure some of us girls can, but being 100 percent feminine is difficult. Bone structure, body shape, body size, facial expressions, hair, clothing, gait, etc can be difficult for any CD to 100 percent be female. I always keep a sharp eya when I shop and make it a point to look over the womens departments whenever I go shopping (even if Im not shopping in them myself). Im not faulting anyone Im just trying to understand why this is. Maybe its me.

Love and Hugs,
Patti Remick


I think that the "we" here is overestimated in that we are by no means all the same. I do not wear fem stuff under drab I do not go out to be honest I dont want too. We are all different and should be apreciated as such "we" are a loosely colective bunch with a common interest

[Wendy me]

Patti Remick i am a Mass. girl :D.... and i go out shopping every were .... :heehee:funny i never noticed you looking for me ......:tongueout:tongueout:tongueout......

[joann07]

I think the reason you don't notice many crossdressers is because they are blending in. And from what Jennifer said, this is the goal for many of us. Some get the thrill of being seen or outed, but most of us just want to go out and enjoy the experience of what its like to be a female. We're not bothering anyone and just want to go about our business of shopping, eating, or doing whatever.

When I'm in guy mode, I'm like everyone else just minding my own business and not looking around to specificially spot crossdressers. However, if some crossdresser makes a scene of course everyone is going to notice.
Most of the time, I'm observing what women wear so that I know what's appropriate clothing for someone my age.
I've been out in femme a number of times now and, from what I've learned from observing, it has helped me to wear the right type of outfit and be comfortable with myself whenever I go out.
Rarely does anyone stare or look at me funny because I'm doing so well in blending in.

[Julogden]

I know there are plenty of CD's in my neck of the woods, SW 'burbs of Chicago, but I don't see us in public very often, but it does happen occasionally here. I once saw 2 definite CD's and 1 maybe all in one day here, my personal record.

Carol:hugs:

[Chrysoprase]

Ive been a CDr my whole life. Im very closeted and do not go out dressed. Without a lot of professional help (makeup, hair, nails, etc) I cannot pass. I do underdress - that is I go out weraing my female clothes under my male DRAB and I suspect many of us do that. However I see so many of you girls here that are so beautiful and so many that say that they are 'out and about' to varying degrees. Many say that they shop en-femme (or at least partially en-femme) at department stores, malls, etc. Ive read that it is estimated that 5 percent (+/-) of males CD (although many are closeted like me). Yet I have never see 'us'. And its not from lack of trying. As its said 'it takes one to know one' I feel I know what to look for. Im sure some of us girls can, but being 100 percent feminine is difficult. Bone structure, body shape, body size, facial expressions, hair, clothing, gait, etc can be difficult for any CD to 100 percent be female. I always keep a sharp eya when I shop and make it a point to look over the womens departments whenever I go shopping (even if Im not shopping in them myself). Im not faulting anyone Im just trying to understand why this is. Maybe its me.

Love and Hugs,
Patti Remick

The thing is, passing is super easy no matter what your face looks like and no matter how tall you are, just act and dress like a woman.
Give up the crossdresser makeup, bad wigs and mini skirts. Ignore almost all the "how to walk" guides. After the first few times out people should be shocked when they see your ID, not read you from a distance, unless they allready know you. A 6' tall man will never look like a tiny model but with very little effort can be a 6' woman.

[Mitch23]

Its actions, mannerisms and confidence and how you feel- lots of beautiful women out there and lots ofugly women who look like guys. I seem to be getting read less now because I'm more confident - only time is when I speak.

I know of several CDs who go to to a certain thrift shop and a lingerie shop in town where they will be accepted and SAs in shopping mall says they get a few, certainly not surprised by them. I've seen one but she scuttled away!

Mitch

[Brianna Lovely]

Wel, I'm out every day, doing normal things, wearing a skirt, fem top and carrying a purse.

And no one has ever come up to me and said "HI, are you a CDer?" giggle.

I think the people around here are starting to think that it's normal for me to dress the way I do (well, it is normal for me, I never wear male clothes anymore).

So......I can be seen, in the daytime, at WalMart, Macy's, JC Penny, Avenue, local malls, thrift stores, dollar stores, grocery stores, Payless shoes, gas stations, Post Office, Targets, Staples, Offic Depot, HomeDepot and any of about thirty restaurants and diners.

"They're Out There" giggle

[rose382832]

maybe the reason you dont see some of us when we are shopping is cause we do it with our wives or girl friends.can you tell the bored man with his wife from a cd in drab with his wife? i know i cant and i a'm both from time to time.

[jamie-upstate]

i have bought all of my cloths and shoes while dress in male mode i think i could pass if i realy tryed but i can't my wifes support to go out

[Deanna2]

Like birdwatchers do when they are out spotting birds you should set up a 'hide' and keep a vigil. I could suggest that a 'hide' in a rack of dresses would be just the place.

[Kyoko]

I,use to go shopping all the time with my Wife who was a tall Transsexual.She was 5ft., 11inches tall and i was 5ft., 6inches
tall but she had a very,very Female shape to her and she weighted
128 lbs.

[marie354]

I have seen one or two from time to time in different cities and towns around me, but around here... I'd be the only one I think.
I thought I saw one going into the local Walmart one day, but when I was in the ladies dept I didn't see her anywhere. She may have been grocery shopping, who knows. I've Never seen her again.
:hugs:

[Jocelyn Quivers]

maybe the reason you dont see some of us when we are shopping is cause we do it with our wives or girl friends.can you tell the bored man with his wife from a cd in drab with his wife? i know i cant and i a'm both from time to time.

That's me exactly, I try to look bored and miserable as possible while shopping with the wife in women's clothing stores were it seems I'm the only male in there, while secretly checking out dresses. Perhaps this is a hidden clue, the male who looks beyond bored or miserable in a women's clothing store on a weekend afternoon. Jocelyn

[TracyH]

A couple years ago, when I was moving up to Portland from California, I stopped at a rest area. On my way out, I met this guy coming in. He was pretty obviously a guy from the neck down, dressed kinda punk, band tshirt, tight jeans, leather bracelets.

But, I was looking at his face. His hair was dyed black and had the cutest feminine haircut, and his makeup was un-freaking-believable. I gave him the biggest smile, but unfortunately he was too busy trying to not make eye contact. I left feeling a bit sad, as well as a bit confused, as I had never had a crush on a man before.

[danielle_from_cal]

Most of the time when I shop in stores I am dressed as a male, so you would not be on the lookout for me. I'm the nervous man with a bra in my hand. When I have gone shopping enfemme, I probably fool myself into believing that nobody notices me. I have definitely seen a few CDs shopping, especially in San Francisco. But I have no reason to go up to them and say "Hey, are you a guy?" What good would that do.

[charlie-50]

fem to male :yeah a few times, there eazy to knock off. but male to fem ive only seen 1 for shure....cp...:D

[Chiana]

I have seen more since I have been on this forum. Maybe because I now look for "us" while in the past I just knew I was the only person in the world like "us". None of the people I have seen would really make eye contact nor did I ever feel there was any opportunity to say hi. One was a young man in drab at a local grocery store. He was right in front of me and his purchase was a huge variety pack of make-up. He kept his head down all the time and darted out of the store as soon as he had completed his purchase. I wanted to try to catch him outside and say ?????? something but he was long gone.

[Alex S]

I live in Indianapolis and its very conservative here but I have spotted two in the last month which way cool as I felt pretty lonely here. Now I know I’m not alone.
:D

[Dixie]

I have seen about 15 to 20 over my CD lifetime.

[LindaTS]

In all my years I've only seen one CD out shopping. It was in the Utica, NY area. She was tall so I think that's what caught my attention but so very pretty. This girl was 100% passable and the only reason I caught her was her adams apple. We were passing each other and we both just smiled and went on about our business.

[JoAnnDallas]

Other than my Tri-Ess sisters, I have only seen two CDer in public. Both were at Orlando Theam Parks. It was Oct last year near Halloween. The parks had a running Halloween parties going, so was a good time for CDers to be out and about. One I strolled up next to while she was in a gift shop and said "Hello" and scared her to death. She quickly left the shop. The other was walking into the park us as we were leaving for the day. Neither were what I called "Passable". You could easly see the masculian features on both of them. But they were out and about and no one was giving any trouble. Then too like I said it was Halloween time, so people may have thought they were costumes. There were many tourists running around the parks in costumes. One park even gave you a 50% discount if you were in a costume.

[Kelsy]

I have seen a few!! I was standing on the Navy pier on Chicago's lake side and along come this couple. nice petite gg and her friend, certainly not passable friend but couragious as hell - little short shorts with a femm cap sleave top with wedge sandals, earrings and make up. more power to her!!!
fashion sense not so much but totally undaunted :thumbsup:

Jennifer:happy:

[PennieS]

I have noticed quite a few within the past year or so here in PA. maybe it is because i am always watching the women to see how they are wearing their outfits. I know I have seen at least 6 0R 7 while out shopping at the local stores lately and maybe another possible couple more. Since I have been out shopping more and more in complete fem atire, it seems I am able just to spot them so much easier now. Although I remember a few I noticed years ago, back when I just had a few of my own things in private. My wife tells me I blend right in while out shopping and hardly anyone would take me as a Cder while out properly dressed. So I am hoping there are a lot more of us out there who also are blending in, without much notice nowadays. Something new I have noticed arround here lately, there seems to be more mothers who are dressing their young boys much more like girls and several I know have young boys with very girlish haircuts and styles. Maybe there is a new trend developing here. Also my wife is a nurse and just within the past few weeks, she had 2 older men, who were into womens clothing. One was unexpectedly found wearing a pink nightgown and panties while another nurse and aid went to his house to give him his followup after surgery. All involved were quite surprised. Plus they discovered another apparently older person, who they thought was originally a woman. She was receiving nursing and home aide care at her house after her doctor set it up. Turns out she did not want the nurses aides help with showers because she turned out to be a man. Apparently all of her back medical records that they had, she was recorded as being a female for quite a long time and the agency that provided the nursing care was quite suprised, but of course they are not allowed to say much about it because of the laws protecting patients, but it does apparently happen. My thoughts are, congratulations for being what they wish to be and all the power to them. How many of us CDers are out there that have complete female Ids and medical records that say they are female and go as one all the time. I thought this was interesting, I look more like a woman and wear female clothing almost entirely, but all my records and IDs are male and I do not try to hide it. I just try to be as much as a woman as I can be, everyday. But if I come accross as a male in female clothing to some, it does not matter to me. Many others just call me mam or miss and I always feel nice when thought of as one. Looking back on the whole thing. There are a lot of homely women out there who do not look as good as a lot of us do, and many times, some of them are mistaken for a male. So why is it such a big deal? Afterall it is just clothing and I feel I have the right to wear what I choose, just like my wife likes to often just wear jeans and a tee-shirt. Plus she recently shedded her long hair style, which she had for years to a much shorter. almost mans style which she seems to really like. I always adored her beautifull long hair, but I still love her with the very short hair. Although she has put on some weight the past couple of years and the shorter cut even makes her look heavier. She asked me if her new short haircut made her face look to fat or if she looked thinner with her long hair. Hey, we have been married for a long time. I Knew not to go there, :2c:even though it does make her look 25 pounds heavier then the long hair did I knew better then to tell her different. After the initial shock of the lost long locks, I decided, I liked it. Plus I really do think she looks great, even if she is larger and more voluptuos then she used to be. Even as a plus size girl, she still carries it well and has a very well proportioned curvy figure. Her weight gain did not go to just her stomach or thighs like many a generic girl. Much of it went to her chest and bottom, so she still looks much lighter then her actual weight really is. Best to all!

PennieS

[Sharon]

I have noticed quite a few within the past year or so here in PA. maybe it is because i am always watching the women to see how they are wearing their outfits. I know I have seen at least 6 0R 7 while out shopping at the local stores lately and maybe another possible couple more.

Well, if one of them happens to look like me, say hello! :happy:

[PennieS]

Well I am up in the northwestern part of the state but sometimes i do make it to other parts of the state with my business ventures. If I should see you, I will stop you and introduce myself, :heehee:thanks

PennieS

[Kristen Marie]

I just came back from Las Vegas and I was out a lot. Besides myself and the TriEss group I was with, I only saw two. I saw one as I was shopping at Macy's in the woman's dept. She was dressed in a sharp business suit, with flats on, and did not attract any attention to herself. I purposely held a blouse up to myself as she was walking near me, but there was no real contact other than brief eye contact. In a momnet she was gone.

Then, around 2AM at the Mirage Casino where I was staying, there was a relatively large woman in a dress, with high heels and OK makeup playing the slots. I know she knew I knew, but out of courtesy, I kept walking. On the walk back, she caught my eye again and quickly diverted her glance. She was the only woman in the place in a matronly dress. Most females were wearing capri's and high heels at that time of night. I guess that tells us to dress the part and try to fit in.

When I went out I was wearing what I have on my avatar. I had just had a makeover so the look was about as good as it will ever get.

But still....I expected to see a few more while in Vegas.

[SherriePall]

Patti -- Yes, there are many of us who are out and about en femme. However, some of us are only out and about en femme several times a year. Others, once a week or so. Therefore, if you have 500 CD'ers in a population of 300,000 or more (5 percent of the male populations plus women and children), many are strictly closeted. Therefore, you have maybe 100 who are not.
Out of that 100, 50 may only attend support meetings. If the other 50 average going out once a month en femme, that means 1.6 CDers go out any given day.
If you live in an area of 300,000 people, how many stores, theaters, etc., might there be? What are the odds of you running into a CDer at any one of those locations? And if they are very good at CDing, what are the odds of really knowing, especially from a distance.
I have looked and thought maybe that lovely lookin girl is one of us, but then notice no adams apple or hear an angelic voice (or check the shoe size).
I then think I am the only one who does, but I know I'm not because SA's have told me stories.
We're out there. Somewhere. Sometime. Just keep looking.

[RobertaFermina]

Whenever I go out, I see one...in the dressing room mirrors and reflected off the shop's glass windows....

What are the odds of seeing two ? Especially when I don't drink !?

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Mariela]

I've seen a lot of TS, as there are lots of them that sell their bodies for a living, but never spotted a CD.
And i wouldnt pass for a women ever!!
specially for my beard :heehee:
Anyway, i will go out somewere in the future, but very far away from home, family or anyone that knows me as a male.

[rose382832]

WHY ? why would you expect to spot one of us? if we are passable then, you spoting us means we aren't or we are and you will never know. those of us who don"t try to pass usualy dont go out in " publick" where you could see us. why are you trying to spot us anyway?are we that much of a circus attraction that we should be spotted or is it more like find waldo?:Angry3:

[elnkay]

I would wonder how many of us regularly go out,confident or brave,and how many just fufill the dream in private or with the so's?....any percentages or guesses out there? luv to know where i rest in that belle ( cute) curve!

[sandra-leigh]

I would wonder how many of us regularly go out,confident or brave,and how many just fufill the dream in private or with the so's?....any percentages or guesses out there?

Poll! Poll! Poll!

But allow for shades of confidence. e.g., I'm confident and comfortable going out dressed in some femme styles even as a guy, but the more fem the clothing gets, the more I want to be fully Dressed. Like my lovely plush velvet dresses -- currently reserved for wig nights, but people don't pay much attention when I wear a blue denim mini as a guy.

[vannesar]

saw one in woolworths some years ago. the adams apple was the giveaway.
Saw another visiting an exhibition at the NEC. He was so obvious 6 foot plus curly ginger wig and looked like a man dressed in womens clothing. !

[KandisTX]

I was at Scarborough Renaissance Faire in Waxahachie 2 years ago. We were at a memorial for one of our members who gave his life protecting others. (He was a bodyguard for "Dimebag Darrel" and was killed the same nite by the same psycho gunman). there were some of our sisters present there, I was not dressed, but I did strike up a conversation with the gurls and we had a nice chat that day. I should have gotten their contact information.

Kandis:love:

[Mariela]

yesterday i saw what i believed to be a FTM CD.
She was alone in the bar, very short and male haircut, no makeup, running shoes, wide jeans and an very androgynous shirt and sweater. She chit-chatted with the barmen and the waiteress all night long.
She wasnt THAT much mannish, but certainly was not femenine at all!!