Why?

[Frankie-Dear]

I came out to two friends of mine. One is a gay man, and the other is a gay woman. I received a rather kind reaction from my gay male friend, but a very tepid, even cool, reaction from the woman. What gives? :(

[chucks]

perhaps she feels that womanhood needs to be protected, or that it is too sacred or something like that. if that makes sense.

[prettywithsideburns]

at the risk of making assumptions about your friends various dispositions, sometimes it's no fun to be the most butch person at the table.

[Marla S]

Maybe she just doesn't like it, like she doesn't like bananas or something.

Because gender expression, and sexual orientation are not directly related, I see nor reason why he or she should like it or not because of their sexual orientation.

A linkage between you and them would be the status of somewhat like an outlaw, homosexuals and TG folks share.

Besides that it could be, of course, she thinks you are occupying a female domain.

It also could be that she just doesn't care.

[Frankie-Dear]

Burns and Chuck, both of your answers make good sense. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Marla, I hadn't even thought of it that way... Thank you!

[Karren H]

Most likely has nothing to do with sexual orientation.. ... And more likely their personalities.. I would have predicted the other way around. Straight acting gay males do not particularuly like crossdressers but we do get along nicely with lesbians.. Go figure!!

Karren

[Chrysoprase]

Straight acting gay males do not particularuly like crossdressers


I seem to know many that do.
Maybe you should meet more of them before firing off the stereotypical comments.

[prettywithsideburns]

I seem to know many that do.
Maybe you should meet more of them before firing off the stereotypical comments.

I've seen it happen. I remember not to long ago I was having dinner with a transsexual friend, a gg friend, and the gg's gay friend from college. the gay guy wasn't straight acting at all, but he noticably avoided any conversation with my transsexual friend in spite of her attempts to start conversation with him. on the other hand, we had a gay waiter that was hilarious and he and my T friend were riffing off eachother without missing a beat like an old-school comedy team. so I guess it takes all kinds.

[joann07]

If she's a HOT (lipstick) lesbian, maybe she feels a little threatened because she may think that you're moving into her territory.

[Karren H]

I seem to know many that do.
Maybe you should meet more of them before firing off the stereotypical comments.

Well I can draw generalities from experiences I've had... I don't consider that stereotyping anyone...

Karren

[Frankie-Dear]

If she's a HOT (lipstick) lesbian, maybe she feels a little threatened because she may think that you're moving into her territory.

Pfffft... What a catty bit... er.... Anyway, FINE! If that's what the problem is, then I'm taking it as my personal mission to thoroughly out-class her. I'm going to be so damn hot, I'm going to leave little scorch marks on the sidewalk beneath my stylish, sexy, and classy heels. My legs are going to look better, my hair, skin, and boobs... Everything. If that's the game, then w00t!!! I'm IN!!! :heehee:

[prettywithsideburns]

Pfffft... What a catty bit... er.... Anyway, FINE! If that's what the problem is, then I'm taking it as my personal mission to thoroughly out-class her. I'm going to be so damn hot, I'm going to leave little scorch marks on the sidewalk beneath my stylish, sexy, and classy heels. My legs are going to look better, my hair, skin, and boobs... Everything. If that's the game, then w00t!!! I'm IN!!! :heehee:

you go gurl!

[Butterfly Bill]

This is the opposite of how it usually is, from what I have experienced. I have had near universal and sometimes giggling support from the lesbians I have known (most from the Unity Church and the Rainbow Gathering), and I have had gay men go bananas in resenting rejection (especially one that my landlady was also renting to). The trip with the men is a man in drag is a demeaning sterotype that they don't want to see representing them as gay men. (Sort of like a black person not liking Amos and Andy, or a Hispanic not liking Speedy Gonzales.)

[Kate Simmons]

I dunno Frankie, I never have that reaction from gay women. In fact, they all kind of like me, so it's a puzzler to me.:happy:

[Fab Karen]

I seem to know many that do.
Maybe you should meet more of them before firing off the stereotypical comments.

SOME ( not all ) gay guys are misogynists, they hate anything feminine, including us.

[battybattybats]

I have also met lesbians that hate men and I've read the opinions of one that considered CD's and TG's as horrible lowly disgusting men trying to steal feminine privilidge and/or have there way with unsuspecting lesbians! I have also met trans friendly lesbians (though they had no idea I dressed). One of the friendliest people I know is a lesbian and she seems ok with everyone (I hope so if I'm ever come out to her!).

[prettywithsideburns]

I have also met lesbians that hate men and I've read the opinions of one that considered CD's and TG's as horrible lowly disgusting men trying to steal feminine privilidge and/or have there way with unsuspecting lesbians! I have also met trans friendly lesbians (though they had no idea I dressed). One of the friendliest people I know is a lesbian and she seems ok with everyone (I hope so if I'm ever come out to her!).

I've been fortunate enough to have never met the stereotypical man-hating lesbian. I've met a couple that generally seem to despise everyone equally (although oddly enough I seemed to get along with them fairly well), but most of the lesbians I'm met have been pretty accepting of people.

[Sheri 4242]

This is the opposite of how it usually is, from what I have experienced. I have had near universal and sometimes giggling support from the lesbians I have known . . . and I have had gay men go bananas in resenting rejection . . .


I never have that reaction from gay women. In fact, they all kind of like me, so it's a puzzler to me.


I would have predicted the other way around. Straight acting gay males do not particularuly like crossdressers but we do get along nicely with lesbians.. Go figure!!

I don't think Karren is stereotyping at all -- what she is saying does seem to be the general experience of many. Not always the case, but frequently so . . .


I have also met lesbians that hate men and I've read the opinions of one that considered CD's and TG's as horrible lowly disgusting men trying to steal feminine privilidge and/or have there way with unsuspecting lesbians! I have also met trans friendly lesbians (though they had no idea I dressed). One of the friendliest people I know is a lesbian and she seems ok with everyone (I hope so if I'm ever come out to her!).

I have usually found acceptance from lesbians, and if not acceptance, then tolerance. However, Batty, I know you are making a a valid point about how some lesbian feel. Just the other day I was reading some research that confirmed what is being said -- many lesbians are acceping, but some are absolutely to the other extreme!!!!!!!

[Julogden]

I'd say why not ask her? Then you'll know exactly why.:2c::happy:

Carol:hugs:

[RobertaFermina]

my experience among lesbians has been acceptance from Lipstick Lesbians, and indifference from Butch Lesbians.

...except when I put on my LBD...then their tongues hit the floor and many could not get me close enough to them...... Go Figure....


:rose: Roberta :rose:

[TxKimberly]

I seem to know many that do.
Maybe you should meet more of them before firing off the stereotypical comments.

I'd have to agree with Karen - I HAVE met quite a few gay men who don't mind telling you directly to your face that they do not like us. The reason I have recieved from most that I have spoken to was that it annoys them that WE are what Mr average Joe American pictures when he thinks of gay people.

It also strikes me that if you thought Karen (or anyone) was wrong or inaccurate, there was no need to be hostile or condescending about it.

[trannie T]

While in general most lesbians are more accepting of us than many gay males, generalizations are not always true. We are all individuals with our own preferences and prejudices. Your two friends are individuals and failed to conform to the stereotype.

[Sheri 4242]

The reason I have recieved from most that I have spoken to was that it annoys them that WE are what Mr average Joe American pictures when he thinks of gay people.

Kimberly: You go girl!!! You've hit the nail squarely on the head!!! What you have related is a misconception gays have had to live with -- and one we have had to endure as well!!! I outed myself a few years ago to an old high school friend, and you could almost see a lightbulb come on over her head when I explained that CDing and being gay were two totally different things -- that, indeed, most gays I have ever known were men who were attracted to men, not men emulating females or femininity. She also honestly did not know that there was a large number of heterosexual mtf crossdressers.


It also strikes me that if you thought Karen (or anyone) was wrong or inaccurate, there was no need to be hostile or condescending about it.

Aint it the truth!!! Succinct and on-target, Kim!!!

[Michelle 51]

Well now that the cat fight is over i would like to say in a nice way that i tend to agree with Karen Justabit

[MsJanessa]

I've usually found acceptance from lesbians and in fact have taken a couple as lovers, but there is always a jealousy angle----in fact I always know when its lesbian night at the local gay bar---I'm the prettiest woman there--lol:doll:

[Charmaine]

I am fortunate enough to have met many different individuals at a local gay bar that is like my second home. (I'm straight GG w/CD BF) And I can see that they are all individuals with individual thoughts and feelings. They think and feel they way they do about others bc they just think and feel they way they do. Not bc they're gay, lesbian, CD, TG, etc.

If you don't understand someone's actions, have a talk with them instead of being 'catty' and starting to resent the relationship. If they truly can't handle what's going on and won't handle what's going on, then move on. Make room for a special friend who will.

[Frankie-Dear]

Sage advice, Charmaine. I've always, as most of us, marched to the beat of my own drum, anyway. Thanks again. :hugs:

[Sheri 4242]

If you don't understand someone's actions, have a talk with them instead of being 'catty' and starting to resent the relationship. If they truly can't handle what's going on and won't handle what's going on, then move on.


Straight acting gay males do not particularuly like crossdressers . . .

I can draw generalities from experiences I've had... I don't consider that stereotyping anyone.


I'd have to agree with Karen - I HAVE met quite a few gay men who don't mind telling you directly to your face that they do not like us. The reason I have recieved from most that I have spoken to was that it annoys them that WE are what Mr average Joe American pictures when he thinks of gay people.

Charmaine,

I don't know whose post(s) you are speaking of when you talk about somebody being "catty" with regards to this subject. I get the impression you may be refering to Karren and/or Kimberly and/or me. Well, with all due respect, I don't think any of the three of us were being "catty," and I am also convinced that the three of us spoke with a great deal of authoritative experience. Kim actually said she had met and spoken with a number of gays. I think I indicated the same, from a former family member who was gay, to many, many others. And, I trust Karren's assessments without question.

All of this said -- and also drawing from some compelling current literature that was well-researched -- this is NOT to put down gays at all!!! It is a simple observation based on a lifetime of experiences. Kimberly said it quite succinctly: it annoys many gays that we are what the average American thinks is representative of what a gay person is! Too many of us have faced this: guy in a dress equals gay! Yet, leading medical and psychological books clearly state that most crossdressers are heterosexual males, save those on the end of the spectrum that are transsexual. Even with the TS, it doesn't automatically equal "a gay person," although society thinks "a bloke in a dress" must be gay! Talk about stereotyping -- it is us that have had to endure the stereotyping!!!

As one excellent piece of literature (by a Yale psychotherapist) states, "Heterosexual crossdressers bother almost everyone. Gay people regard them with disdain . . . something warmer than tolerance, but not much . . . (because in no small part they represent to society the typical image of society's perception of) gay men." The author goes on to say, "Drag Queens (gay crossdressers) make sense to most of us (because) there is a congruence of sexual orientation, appearance, and temperament."

Speaking of Fantasia Fair, a CD event held in gay and lesbian friendly Provincetown every fall, after describing all about Fantasia Fair, the author notes that Provincetown seems like a pretty safe place (for crossdressers), which it is, but even there crossdressers receive looks and chuckles and little sign that much of the gay residents recognize these men as people with whom they have anything in common. The gay people do not say, "Oh, you're a straight man who likes to wear a dress . . . welcome aboard. Heterosexual crossdressers . . . (are) marginal in the community of sexual minorities . . ."

So, I really don't think "catty" appropriately states the case . . . "educated observation" does state the case and is much more apropos! Many of us have, indeed, had many a conversation with gay men, had friendships with gay men -- and even with how many of them feel, we still often look to their community as a safe haven where we can freely dress if we aren't comfortable going out dressed in the general populace.

[Frankie-Dear]

I am surprised, really. Of all of them, I would think that drag queens would be most offensive -- Almost a mockery, like Al Jolson in blackface. I don't get it...:sad:

[Sheri 4242]

I am surprised, really. Of all of them, I would think that drag queens would be most offensive -- Almost a mockery, like Al Jolson in blackface. I don't get it...:sad:

Actually, I'm glad you brought this up: I have read several articles about Drag Queens and how many actually show great contempt through mockery for GGs. Haven't talked to too many Drag Queens, so am just relating what I have read -- and I think I read this in some of the mainstream books on heterosexual CDing that get mentioned on here frequently.

Have you ever heard that many mtf heterosexual CDers, unlike Drag Queens, in general hold GG's in the highest of esteem?!!! Seems I read that somewhere or heard it in a seminar. Not trying to stereotype, just relating what I've heard within the context of what you brought up. Very thought-provoking!!!

[Charmaine]

Pfffft... What a catty bit... er.... Anyway, FINE! If that's what the problem is, then I'm taking it as my personal mission to thoroughly out-class her. I'm going to be so damn hot, I'm going to leave little scorch marks on the sidewalk beneath my stylish, sexy, and classy heels. My legs are going to look better, my hair, skin, and boobs... Everything. If that's the game, then w00t!!! I'm IN!!! :heehee:

Barbara, I was referring to this post by Frankie.

I don't agree that 'revenge' in any form is the best medicine.

And as for how the gays, etc think, in my 'little world' that is how I see it. I'm saying be openminded bc every one, every group and every area is not the same.

:happy:

[Frankie-Dear]

Not "revenge," really. More like, DEFIANCE! :devil::thumbsup: