Crossdressers born that way?

[Sapphire]

It would seem that the vast majority of crossdressers (including myself) have been aware of their unusual inclination from very early childhood. Are there any members of the forum for whom this has not been the case? While the crossdressing inclination may sometimes seem to hibernate when one falls in love, its re-emergence seems to be a very frequent occurrence. I would welcome your views and observations.

[chucks]

i never thought about doing it till like 18 or so, then never did it till a few weeks ago (21)

[Marla S]

IMO TG folks is born that way.
Gender identity is just another parameter that has a natural varibility like body height. Like body height it accumulates for the biological sexes, but there are overlaps too. This overlaps are we.

Considering the enormes social and peer pressure, I think latebloomers are just another expression of variability.

[prettywithsideburns]

crossdressing in and of itself is something that I think any man would try if he was truly honest with himself. take away the social prohibitions or stigmas and I think just about every guy would like to try on girly clothes. at any rate there is absolutely nothing biological about fashion, therefore an interest in another genders clothing can't be something you're born with.

now transgenderism on the other hand is another matter entirely. being another gender, feeling that you are another gender goes well beyond merely wanting to wear clothing and affect behavior that society arbitrarily decides you shouldn't. that, I would have to say is biological.

but for those of us that simply ask "why should girls have all the fun?", well that I think is just natural human curiosity and adventurousness. that so many of us discover that it is indeed fun results from the fact that it was designed over many generations and civilizations to be. there, after all, has to be some small upside to all the crap women have had to take over the millennia, and as most of us here have discovered the trappings of femininity are that upside.

but let's go back to the dawn of time: if you were a cavemen would you be interested in wearing womens clothes? cave people didn't even wear clothes!

[Marla S]

but let's go back to the dawn of time: if you were a cavemen would you be interested in wearing womens clothes? cave people didn't even wear clothes!
That's not quite true. At least in the northern hemisphere they needed clothes, otherwise they wouldn't have survived.
"Cavemen" started wearing jewelry (shells) 100.000 years ago.
From that point on CDing was possible.
Human beings always decorated their body, most likely dependend on the gender.

[prettywithsideburns]

That's not quite true. At least in the northern hemisphere they needed clothes, otherwise they wouldn't have survived.
"Cavemen" started wearing jewelry (shells) 100.000 years ago.
From that point on CDing was possible.
Human beings always decorated their body, most likely dependend on the gender.

the northern cave people would have worn crude animal skins that would be too variant individually to create speciffic gender distinctions. now as for jewelry, it seems to me, based on archealogical evidence, that the further back you go the less difference there is in quantity and style of jewelry between the sexes. the rule of thumb for the earliest recorded societies seems to be for both genders if you can afford it, wear as much as you can carry regardless of style, and then pile on double that when you're dead in your tomb.

[Chrysoprase]

I'm in early childhood camp. Earliest memories are well before school, so 4-5 years old.

[Marla S]

the northern cave people would have worn crude animal skins that would be too variant individually to create speciffic gender distinctions. now as for jewelry, it seems to me, based on archealogical evidence, that the further back you go the less difference there is in quantity and style of jewelry between the sexes. the rule of thumb for the earliest recorded societies seems to be for both genders if you can afford it, wear as much as you can carry regardless of style, and then pile on double that when you're dead in your tomb.
You are right, and you are right in that that early cavemen probably had more essential things to do than thinking about gender. Getting enough food and survival are more important.
But even the most archaic tribes in the area of amazon, that don't wear clothes decorate their body differentiated by gender. Actually I don't know if there are CDs, but if, they wouldn't adore skirts but the red paint scheduled for women, and sneak into the woods to paint themselves.
I don't see a reason why it should have been any differrent from an early stage of cultural development. The earliest (?) CD we know by name is Hatshepsut 1470 BC.

[SandyR]

I know this is not the response you are looking for, but I was born this way! I really think almost, if not all at least had some sort of childhood dressing episode.

SandyR

[chrissietoo]

Over at crossdressers-forum.com, I started a poll, asking,
When was your first experience of dressing, the one that never went away?

I thought it was really interesting, given that so many think of crossdressing as an aldult sexual fetish, that over 3/4 responded that they first felt the urge BEFORE puberty...and I'm one of them! When you add teens, it's up to 93%.

xoxo chrissie :thumbsup:

Here are the results so far:

Before puberty
60% [ 23 ]

At puberty (pre-teen)
18% [ 7 ]

Teens
13% [ 5 ]

Early adult
5% [ 2 ]

Thirties
2% [ 1 ]

Forties
0% [ 0 ]
Fifties
0% [ 0 ]
After retirement
0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 38

[Missy]

ok I am a crossdresser and have been one since 8 or 9 and I was not born this way i choose to be this way. as little childen are minds are like a blank wall and as we grow up is starts getting full and as we lern we make choices as to how we want to be and I choose to be a crossdresser

missy

[Phoebe Reece]

I think it is a two-part process that results in a crossdresser. The first part involves an innate need to crossdress that one is born with. The second part is a "trigger" event - an opportunity or idea to actually crossdress for the first time. In many of us that "trigger" event happened at an early age. In others it didn't occur until much later in life. But, if you are not born with that need to crossdress, that "trigger" event doesn't result in anything.
That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

[trannie T]

IMHO there may be as many different reasons one becomes a crossdresser as there are crossdressers. Why do I crossdress? I have absolutely no idea.

[Chiana]

I don't think it was ever a choice situation with me. It always has been just a part of who I am. I remember when I was a pre-schooler, I was already interested in dressing, playing with dolls, etc. I wanted to do girlie things long before I think I fully understood the destinction between boys and girls. It has always appealed to me. But always I wanted to do little boy things too. Multiple personality, I guess.

[tracie674]

I beleave I was born this way. I have memories of being 4 or 5 years old and playing with and wearing my moms things. I've been excited by womens clothes since then. It's not a choice for me and I suspect not a choice for most of us. We can chose on any given day to dress or not to dress but we're still CDs even if we don't dress for long periods at a time.

[prettywithsideburns]

I don't think it was ever a choice situation with me. It always has been just a part of who I am. I remember when I was a pre-schooler, I was already interested in dressing, playing with dolls, etc. I wanted to do girlie things long before I think I fully understood the destinction between boys and girls. It has always appealed to me. But always I wanted to do little boy things too. Multiple personality, I guess.

I can't stand when people get on a deconstructionist trip with semantics, but I'm about to make myself a hypocrite and do that:

"choice" is a funny word. we can choose to do something or not to do something, but I don't think we can choose whether we like doing something or don't like doing something. preferences are not choices, and prefferences can come about in many ways through both nature ("I like rubbing this aloe leaf on my skin, and funnily enough it's good for me too!") and nurture ("I hate hamburgers because Ronald McDonald killed my parents in a cocaine fueled rage"), as well as random happenstance ("there is no biological reason or event in my personal history to explain while I like to watch the Mgloughlin Group naked while covered in cheeto dust, I just plain like it!"), but choice plays no role in that. try this experiment: take your favorite food. now choose not to like it. you can't, can you? sure, if pressed you could choose not to eat it, but that doesn't change whether you like it or not. and then the question is this: why shouldn't you like it? it's not hurting anyone, so what's the point in denying yourself it? all that'll do is make you crazy.

/end semantic trip

[Julie Gaum]

This thread is related to an unofficial poll to which I would love to receive your opinions: Just how many hetro males are there in the US that cross dress by underdressing or come out 24/7 or just part of the time?
Assume there are 125 million males over 5 years old and eliminate those who have become TGs. Then what's your guess? I know it's only a guess but your reply would be most helpful.
Julie Gaum

[Oddlee]

I think Phoebe's answer is closest to accurate. If I remember earlier reading correctly, we are born with certain predispositions (whether it's genetic or caused by a chemical wash at week 6). Predisposition does not mean it will happen, but a trigger event or a specific environmental influence can cause a certain behavior in a predisposed individual, while the same event or influence would have no effect on an individual lacking the predisposition.

In my own case, when I was 6 my dad was away at a military school, so we stayed with my mother's parents. My sister and I would be put to bed in my mother's bed - she would keep her nightgown under the pillow. I loved the feel of it, so put it on. I soon found out it was inappropriate, as we were moved to different sleeping places when it was time for my mother to go to bed...

Lee

[Bobbi Lynn]

I can remember trying on my mothers and grandmothers stuff at 3-4 years old. I know the age I was from the house we were living in at the time. So I'm definitely in "the born that way" camp.

[Joy Carter]

IMHO there may be as many different reasons one becomes a crossdresser as there are crossdressers. Why do I crossdress? I have absolutely no idea.

Trannie T has it right with fewest number of words.

[Satrana]

I recall reading a large survey of CDs which indicated that about 20% started crossdressing after the age of 21. This was a surprise to me at the time since I figured just about everybody started during their childhood. But I now know there are many reasons why someone would want to crossdress and only some have got to do with having a transgendered personality.

I suspect late-starters simply do it for fun or stress relief or escapism and not because they are latent transgendered people at all. And even some who did start during childhood may have just stumbled into it by circumstance or curiosity and enjoyed it and never stopped.

There will never be a catch-all theory because the reasons why each one of us started are too varied. Ideas that crossdressers are born that way do not reflect reality.

[Jamie001]

I was born that way and wanted to crossdress as far back as I have memories. I wanted to wear clothes like my mom.


I recall reading a large survey of CDs which indicated that about 20% started crossdressing after the age of 21. This was a surprise to me at the time since I figured just about everybody started during their childhood. But I now know there are many reasons why someone would want to crossdress and only some have got to do with having a transgendered personality.

I suspect late-starters simply do it for fun or stress relief or escapism and not because they are latent transgendered people at all. And even some who did start during childhood may have just stumbled into it by circumstance or curiosity and enjoyed it and never stopped.

There will never be a catch-all theory because the reasons why each one of us started are too varied. Ideas that crossdressers are born that way do not reflect reality.

[jennCD]

probably started for me at around age 10 or 11 I'd estimate. I could attribute to to ay number of factors including my parents divorce, onset of puberty or such, but I'm at the point were I care less about the "why" and more about the "how"... all in good time....
:)

[Sapphire]

I think it is a two-part process that results in a crossdresser. The first part involves an innate need to crossdress that one is born with. The second part is a "trigger" event - an opportunity or idea to actually crossdress for the first time. In many of us that "trigger" event happened at an early age. In others it didn't occur until much later in life. But, if you are not born with that need to crossdress, that "trigger" event doesn't result in anything.
That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

In my case there was also an early childhood event that seems to have released an inclination towards crossdressing. The fact that I never forgot that moment brings home its significance. But if it had not happened then perhaps it might have happened later in life.

[Kate Simmons]

Crossdressing is a process. Regardless of the reason for that process, it can result in one of two things:

1. It can become an overwhealming self sustaining entity with it's own agenda (not necessarily concerned with our welfare).

2. It can become a conscious choice with a reasonable conclusion.

I've experienced both sides of it up close and was nearly consumed by it. While both avenues require creativity and planning, one is bent on being self centered while the other shows consideration for reasonability and dealing with others.
It can be a gift or a curse (or both), depending on how you look at it but can be a learning experience as well and help us discover who we really are inside.
Like any gift, however, it's how it is used that is important. I've chosen to use it as a means of self expression in a way that I control it and not vice versa. That being the case, I feel we are born with a propensity for it at least and I've chosen to use it as an asset in a positive way rather than a detriment to my disadvantage.:happy:

[Emma England]

At age 11, I didn't like the clothes my mother gave me.

This led me to choosing girly clothes. This is not being born this way.

[Kelsy]

[QUOTE=prettywithsideburns;902147]crossdressing in and of itself is something that I think any man would try if he was truly honest with himself. QUOTE]

This, I think is totally not true. Not all men would have this inclination at all.
It is a "born with propensity" to express our female side. It is our mental and emotional make up , our female gender, that moves us to dress in a way that matches what we know instictively about who we are even if our sex - bodies -do not match.

Jennifer:happy:

[Marla S]

There will never be a catch-all theory because the reasons why each one of us started are too varied.
True, most likely there is no catch it all theory.

Ideas that crossdressers are born that way do not reflect reality.
That's is still an open question to me, and depends on what is meant by crossdressing (the act or the need).


I recall reading a large survey of CDs which indicated that about 20% started crossdressing after the age of 21. This was a surprise to me at the time since I figured just about everybody started during their childhood. But I now know there are many reasons why someone would want to crossdress and only some have got to do with having a transgendered personality.

I suspect late-starters simply do it for fun or stress relief or escapism and not because they are latent transgendered people at all. And even some who did start during childhood may have just stumbled into it by circumstance or curiosity and enjoyed it and never stopped.
Common attributes for CDs, like I understand CDing, are the shame and guilt feelings and that it is nevertheless hard to impossible to stop it in the long run.
It is hard for me to imagine that someone who wants to relax or seeks for stress relief would choose a way that causes these feellings and which is a way of (almost ?) no return. Not to mention the risk or fear involved to effect family, friends, or the job.
There are others, more accepted, and safer ways to disguise: Helloween, historical role-plays, biker-club, trekky, etc. etc. Each of which can be fun, stress relief, and an temporary escape .... but these activities are usually interchangabele and temporary ... CDing usually is not.

Even if there are a zillion of reasons to CD, there are at least a zillion reasons why a potential TG*-tendency we are born with could break through in later years only.
I.e. TG-tendencies are probably a continuous spectrum (from almost not observable to disgust about the own body), the expression usually is made binary, which is a heavy distortion of the spectrum.

(*My def: TG = umbrella term for CD, TS, queer, etc., etc.)

[Tamera]

I can remember being in the 6th grade and trying on clothes.
LOL
Tamera

[Lilith Moon]

My first CD memories are of wearing my bedsheets as a gown and doing twirls in front of the mirror, aged just 4 years old. I imagined myself as a fairy princess. I discovered a rubber undersheet under my bedsheets which made a great cloak. Later, I graduated to mothers stuff. I found all of this exciting and it felt so good in a none-sexual way.

Then puberty hit and my sexuality sort of developed around, melded with and re-enforced, my childhood experiences. Then whole dressing thing became intensely sexually charged, including a love of "kinky" fabrics such as latex and shiny PVC, for quite a few years. I identified as a fetish motivated crossdresser...which I now believe to be mistaken.

You see, I am now...er...of mature years. The raw sexual component has subsided somewhat, my dressing is less of a frenetic sexual rush, it is calmer and more integrated onto my psyche. Interestingly, my *need* to crossdress has not diminished, quite the reverse. It is just not so completely sexual any more.

My feelings about all of this....the need to express as a different gender from that assigned to us is with us from birth, long before we are sexually aware. I don't know the reason for this. Much later, the sexual component is overlaid onto this gender "difference" at puberty and the two meld together into something very powerful. This is the reason why many consider CD to be primarily a sexual activity. However, if the sexual component declines, for example with age, then the underlying gender component will still remain and may well become even stronger.

That is my take, based on my own life experiences. Others will be different. Put 100 different TG people together and you will find 100 different explanations for what we do and what we are.

[SweetCaroline]

Like a lot of cross-dressers, I spent years trying to figure out "why". Why do I do this? Why am I like this?

My first cross dressing experience happened when I was five. I put on my sister's night gown one Sunday morning and stood on a chair to entertain my two younger brothers. I don't know WHY I put on that night gown, I only know that I WANTED to put on that night gown. I felt different when I was wearing that night gown. No one forced me to put it on. I put it because I wanted to put it on. Though the years I continued to dress-up when ever I could, because I WANTED to. When ever I was alone, growing up, I headed straight for that closet.

WHY?
For me, I decided there is no other reason except that I like doing it.

Do others understand WHY?
Not always.

Do I understand WHY?
Heck no! And trust me I tried.

Is it a choice?
Who knows. It's part of who I am. It's not the only thing I do, or what I'm all about. Heck, I rarely do it anymore.

Will I do it again?
You bet.

Would I do it more often if I could, or if it were more socially acceptable?
LIKE HELL I would! LOL.

Well, sorry for the vent. That's just my take on it.:2c:

[Wendy me]

you know i have spent way too much time in my life to try to understand or stop this cding thingy i do ... i can remember things back to when i was real young ... knowing that stolen moments or "found item" were not the right thing to do .... but why did it feel so wrong and so right at the same time???

was i born to be a cross dresser??? was any one born to become what ever they become in life??? .... this cross dressing is a importation part of who i am but it's not the only thing i am .... could it be it is what it is nothing more ??? oh i believe you can look for what ever reason until you find one that makes you happy ..... or you could just accept you for who you are even though you might never relay know why .....

[LaFem]

Here is another label for the mix: Compulsion. In addition to all the other words attempting to define crossdressing, compulsion is often mentioned in psychiatric literature. I'm not too happy with this word, but I think it applies to me. I can't stop; I don't want to stop.

I was 4 years old when I realized something was different about me. By 5 years old, I absolutely knew I should have been born a girl, and I still feel that way. I think that the tendency to CD or be TG is probably due to something that happened to us in the womb. When the environment is right, that tendency expresses itself, becomes a reality, and stays forever. It's almost my only reality now.

[Slip Affinity]

I always figured I was born this way. I have loved feminine attire, especially the underwear, ever since I can remember but mom thought it was a sickness. I even spent time in an institution when in my early teens undergoing counseling. But, it never diminished my love for dressing. I feel as comfortable in panties and a bra as I do in a T shirt. I love the feeling of the tightness of the bra band around my back and the straps over my shoulders. And just the thought of a nylon slip and/or a nightgown is enough to make me want to dress. Even if I could rid myself of these feelings, there is no way in this world that I would. At this point in my life, I have no desire to be a real woman; I feel I have the best of both worlds the way I am.

[JulieC]

One size fits all! All crossdressers are ABCZYX!

Some of us feel it's a choice. Some feel we were born this way. Right answers? Who knows? Does it matter? *shrug*

There's biological evidence showing a strong connection between the makeup of brains and gender identification. Transexual m->f types have been shown to have brain structure similar to women, for example.

To my knowledge, there's no similar study regarding crossdressing (but not transexual) m->f. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all to know there's a biological underpinning to crossdressing. I say this because over and over and over again I hear of men who keep going back to crossdressing, despite overt vows not to. I know of no man who was able to successfully stop crossdressing in perpetuity. If it was an addiction, you could stop. If it was a choice, you could stop. I believe for some it is neither of these, and it isn't something you can stop. That smacks of biological reasons to me.

[battybattybats]

the northern cave people would have worn crude animal skins that would be too variant individually to create speciffic gender distinctions. now as for jewelry, it seems to me, based on archealogical evidence, that the further back you go the less difference there is in quantity and style of jewelry between the sexes. the rule of thumb for the earliest recorded societies seems to be for both genders if you can afford it, wear as much as you can carry regardless of style, and then pile on double that when you're dead in your tomb.

There were some very early finds of bone sewing needles and one find that I know of of leather trousers! So pants go back a very long way indeed Some early burials included what seemed to be clothes of woven feathers too but these were too deteriorated to know the design.
Considering some of the hermaphroditic cave paintings along with animal-human forms it's pretty safe to say that the long tradition of ritual shamanic crossdressing could go all the way back.

In which case cross dressing was probably part of the very earliest spiritual/religious practices!

[edina1]

Liked the explanation given by Grayson Perry, 'potter in a frock' ... that when you're a kid various difficult things happen, and if you collect enough points, you get to be a transvestite...

[Dixie]

I don't know if I was born this way or not, but I was dressed at a very early age by a babysitter so we could play house, I think this directly enfluenced me.

[Ashleigh]

but let's go back to the dawn of time: if you were a cavemen would you be interested in wearing womens clothes? cave people didn't even wear clothes!

CAVEMEN???

Check out Genesis 1:26-27.

A :doll:

[battybattybats]

CAVEMEN???

Check out Genesis 1:26-27.

While it may be perfectly fine for some people to disregard scientific evidence in favour of their faith in a particular text they believe to be of divine origin which I respect as much as any other viewpoint, it hardly bears at all on anyone not of that faith or those who do not hold a fundamental literalist interpretation of that faith.

Having worked as a volunteer for about a month with the discoverers of Homo Floresiensis I say, 'Yes, cavemen!'.

Might I suggest, for further reading on the matter, the works of Richard Dawkins.

[chrissietoo]

i dress because i would rather feel like a woman than a man, on both deep and superficial levels. :love:

[Raychel Red]

I think it was Shakespeare...'to thine own self be true'. It took me a long time to accept that.

[Satrana]

That's is still an open question to me, and depends on what is meant by crossdressing (the act or the need). Actually neither is likely. Our genes and hormones are blind to things like clothes and society gender rules. If we are born with a need, it is probably nothing more than a strong need to express ourselves. Some people bend easily to the will of society and offer no resistance to conditioning, others have an inner resolve to be themselves. Since all men naturally have attributes which society labels feminine, every man has the potential to become a crossdresser if the right set of environment and personality dynamics come together.




There are others, more accepted, and safer ways to disguise: Helloween, historical role-plays, biker-club, trekky, etc. etc. Each of which can be fun, stress relief, and an temporary escape .... but these activities are usually interchangabele and temporary ... CDing usually is not. Sometimes these other pursuits do in fact become compulsive and can come to dominate a person's life. I think there are reasons why CDing is particularly compulsive
1. being hetrosexual, we get a heightened buzz not found in other pursuits. Also being taboo again raises the excitement levels.
2. the other gender is all around us, it is not fantasy, not is rare, we are constantly being reminded of our compulsive pursuit of it
3. a firm belief the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and the fence can be easily climbed over by going to a department store and buying the correct gear. It is very accessible.


Even if there are a zillion of reasons to CD, there are at least a zillion reasons why a potential TG*-tendency we are born with could break through in later years only.
Possible yes, but I believe unlikely. I don't believe you can be born different and not realize it until you are in your 50's. If CDs are indeed different from the rest of the population, which is what some people here believe, then the late-starters would know it during their childhood/teenage years for sure even if they did not actually crossdress.

The potential is in everyone. This is different from saying there is an undisclosed latent difference.

[battybattybats]

Actually neither is likely. Our genes and hormones are blind to things like clothes and society gender rules.

From what I've read and heard of evolutionary psychology and work on the evolution of altruism that is not neccessarily true. The gender rules of any given society do change too frequently to be specifically genetically determined but, like some of the evidence for language, the propensity to develop gender rules could be genetic.

Also from what I understan of epigenetics and genetic switches it would be entirely possible for someone to have the hypothetical 'crossdresser gene' but only in the 'off' position and then to have some environmental trigger turn it to the 'on' position, which could possibly allow for the 50 year old crossdresser to suddenly discover their difference.

Another explanation could be simple repression. After 50 years it finally bursts from the unconcious to the concious.

[Sheri 4242]

. . . (it could be) entirely possible for someone to have the hypothetical 'crossdresser gene' but only in the 'off' position and then to have some environmental trigger turn it to the 'on' position . . .

That is an interesting concept, especially if linked to the brain cell cluster evidence (the possible "home" of the gene???). H'mmmm! Well, it IS thought-provoking!!! I tend to give credence to the hormone wash -- possibly short-circuting -- which, in turn, causes the developing brain to have the same size specialized brain cell clusters as GG's. That said, your thought that a trigger comes into play might be credible! Some psychologists won't let go of the nature-nurture idea, and your "trigger" -- perhaps in the form of some socialization influence -- might explain why CDing kicks in. IOW, the phsyiological aspects are present, but something needs to jump start what's there. Well, whatever . . . I am a CDer, and after years of fear and guilt, I have finally achieved a sense of peace about what I am -- peace and even excitement!!!

[Marla S]

Actually neither is likely. Our genes and hormones are blind to things like clothes and society gender rules. If we are born with a need, it is probably nothing more than a strong need to express ourselves. Our genes and hormones are responsible that we have, in contrast to most other animals, self-awareness and the talent and compulsion for individuality. Our genes are also responsible for our compulsion to socialize. The latter is necessary for the survival of mankind, the first is a necessary condition for cultural development. The compulsion for individuality and the compulsion to socialize create a field of tension in general (a lot of people have problems with this tension ... not only trans-folks ... equalizing individuality isn't easy).
Gender rules, like we know them, are based on biological differences, but are predominatly cultural by nature.


Some people bend easily to the will of society and offer no resistance to conditioning, others have an inner resolve to be themselves. Since all men naturally have attributes which society labels feminine, every man has the potential to become a crossdresser if the right set of environment and personality dynamics come together.
My focus here isn't predominatly on crossdressers.
The more general question is: Why some people need to express themselves by outer appearence and mannerism more than others ?
This is a phenomenon widespread for both genders. Some don't care, some try to blend in, some even try to hide, others scream by their appearence "Watch out world, here I am" ... Why is that ?.
On the other side there are those people that are called "Frauenversteher" here in Germany. I havn't found a translation (women sympathizer ???, ladie's men ???). This is a swearword for men having, showing, or wanting "women like" esthesia, empathy, emotional skills. They usually don't dress feminine but interact with others in an "unmanly" way.
(Some gays are sometimes called "Frauenversteher").
In my understanding of TG they are trans too, but have the "advantage" that they don't need to express this by their appearence, but have the "compulsion" to express it nevertheless.

However, baseline is IMO, there is a lot of trans-folks walking around, maybe more than "normal" folks, and the question is not so much why CDs need to wear women's clothes, but why there are people, independent of gender and transness, that need to express their individuality or personality by their outer appearence and why there are others that don't.

(all this excludes male sexuality, which has IMO a strong effect on the outcome of CDing, as well as the gender rules, causing an enormous peer pressure leading to some strange behavior)


The potential is in everyone. This is different from saying there is an undisclosed latent difference.
Right. In my understanding CD is the result of a more or less prounced feminine aspects almost everybody has, a prounced need to express the personality by appearence which not everybody has, but which is common for both sexes, and a good lot of testosterone (at least during puberty).

EDIT: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ?????????
Maybe I've gone a bit off topic. Sorry

[Sapphire]

There will never be a catch-all theory because the reasons why each one of us started are too varied. Ideas that crossdressers are born that way do not reflect reality.

It would appear that there are three influences at work:

Genetic
Physical Environment
Culture

There is surely scope for a good doctoral thesis on the subject that might even bring to the fore deeper philosophical and ethical issues concerning gender and society. Perhaps it already exists gathering dust in some university archive.

[Mariela]

I agree very much with Phoebe!!
I can even recall when this feeling started, but i played with my sisters dolls very much, i loved barbie!! And she was girlfriend with my Rambo doll.
I love since very very little lots of girly things, but still love more manly stuff, like sports, fights, beer, etc.


PS: I am new here, and i am very happy to see how much people have gone through the same rough places and questionings that i did!! Finally i am not alone!!

[Satrana]

From what I've read and heard of evolutionary psychology and work on the evolution of altruism that is not neccessarily true. The gender rules of any given society do change too frequently to be specifically genetically determined but, like some of the evidence for language, the propensity to develop gender rules could be genetic.
The propensity for gender rules, or social rules in general, may possibly now be genetically encoded as the adaptation to be easily conditioned by our peers. However what these rules are are entirely made up to our society. If we lived in the jungle and wore no clothes then there could not possibly be a crossdressing gene.



Another explanation could be simple repression. After 50 years it finally bursts from the unconcious to the concious. All things are possible but highly unlikely. Repression normally occurs when a dramatic event occurs which the person is unable to deal with and so the brain puts it aside and breaks the linkages. There is no mention of any trigger event in the late-starters that I have read about.

[battybattybats]

The propensity for gender rules, or social rules in general, may possibly now be genetically encoded as the adaptation to be easily conditioned by our peers. However what these rules are are entirely made up to our society. If we lived in the jungle and wore no clothes then there could not possibly be a crossdressing gene.


All things are possible but highly unlikely. Repression normally occurs when a dramatic event occurs which the person is unable to deal with and so the brain puts it aside and breaks the linkages. There is no mention of any trigger event in the late-starters that I have read about.

But if we are gentically encoded to have a differentiation between males and females then as long as there is some form of appearance changing behaviour there is the capacity for crossdressing. Even in a clotheless jungle perhaps males wear pointy shells, females round shells.. or males dye their hair with blood and females with wode... is there a record of any society in the annals of anthropology with no differentiation of decoration between male and female? The crossdressing gene could have come into existance any time after the self-decoration gene.. if such are genetically dictated or influenced (and then we could spin off into Dawkins 'memes' even if not).

As for repression.. it depends on the school of psychology.. 'voice dialogue' I've been reading about recently and it suggests all personalities are made up of sub personalities many of which are repressed and don't begin to emerge until much later even without trigger events. It seems to be becoming quite a popular therapy style but I haven't yet found a good critical article on its flaws.

[Satrana]

The more general question is: Why some people need to express themselves by outer appearance and mannerism more than others ?


Now that is a good question! I think, in the case of men, that we are so conditioned from childhood onwards to hide our emotions that men generally dislike any display of emotion. This is why male clothes are so drab, men like it this way, emotionless clothes to reflect an emotionless public personality.

This is why crossdressing is so compulsive, we get to circumvent the male personality and use a female persona to be expressive and to be emotional without the concern of male vulnerability.

Maybe it is nothing more than an enhanced need for self-expression that turns us into crossdressers in the first instance, and from there we get to explore our unfamiliar feminine side, which later grows into a sense of transgenderness. Maybe the other boys lacked this need for self expression and so never considered crossdressing and never discovered their feminine values.

[kerrianna]

What a great and thoughtful thread.

I wish I had more to add but you girls are doing it. You girls rock. :happy:

[MarinaTwelve200]

It all depends upon the underlying cause of one's cross dressing drive.

Things like forms of Transsexualisim , both Homosexual and non-homosexual are likely in-born. While if one's CD is motivated by Thrill seeking or fetishes, for example, it is something "discovered", later in life, that feels good---and thus establishes a habbit.

CDing in itself cannot be considered "globally" as a condition in itself, but a reaction to or symptom of more basic underlying conditions---of which there are many, mostly unrelated, Each with its own unique cause.

[Satrana]

But if we are gentically encoded to have a differentiation between males and females then as long as there is some form of appearance changing behaviour there is the capacity for crossdressing. Even in a clotheless jungle perhaps males wear pointy shells, females round shells.. or males dye their hair with blood and females with wode... is there a record of any society in the annals of anthropology with no differentiation of decoration between male and female? The crossdressing gene could have come into existance any time after the self-decoration gene.. if such are genetically dictated or influenced (and then we could spin off into Dawkins 'memes' even if not).

It is unlikely there is any biological need for crossdressing for the simple reason that it is very easy to see who is male and who is female in a clotheless society. The biological based behavioral differences between the two genders is based upon two different lifestyles - the need for males to fight,impress and mate and the need for females to be choose the right mate and then raise the offspring. So different behaviors are found within the two sexes because of the differing lifestyles.

Decoration though appears to be a genderless development. Both sexes appear to have equally decorated themselves. Some decorations were made to enhance features inherent in the differing gender lifestyles and to encourage sexual attraction. In time these became more succinct until sophisticated clothing was developed whereupon cultural differences became important. However clothes themselves are not important to our behavior. Go to a nudist colony and people still relate to each other the same way despite lacking the clothing signals. Alternatively how many crossdressers would you find among poor people who wear rags?

Our crossdressing habits do not involve attracting mates. If there was a crossdressing gene, we would feel a strong need to play out the female mating game. That usually is not the case. We often do portray sexy ladies but as hetrosexual men it is clear we are just projecting the image we find appealing to ourselves.

Crossdressing is a tool of self expression and escapism from our assigned gender roles. We seek to temporarily take on the imagined social role of the opposite gender. I cannot imagine what activity in our past could have created such a gene.

More fundamentally I believe that hetrosexual crossdressing was rare in ancient times because the conditions which encourage this behavior were mostly lacking. These include distinctive gender appearance, financial and practical ability to have a diverse wardrobe, leisure time, privacy, self-exploration etc. Until the 20th century most people simply did not have the luxury or the capability to think about crossdressing never mind attempt it. References to crossdressers in old texts are seemingly always gay men wanting to attract men by playing the role of a woman.

[battybattybats]

I cannot imagine what activity in our past could have created such a gene.

Direct selection pressures through natural selection arn't the only way that a gene might develop. Aside from genetic drift there is also the way that a gene that is naturally selected because of one survival value could also have additional side-effects. Schizophrenia appears to be often a condition that runs in very creative families.. essentially a malfunction in the ultra-creative gene. One genetic illness (don't recall which) is caused by a gene that provides malaria resistance.

The urge to crossdress and look/behave like members of the opposite sex could be caused as a side effdect by, for example, a gene that makes men more caring and empathic towards their partners making better surviving family units or one that makes women more aggressive and able to join tribal warfare or the hunt when the gathering was scarce and the mamoths crotchety :)

Also we continue to evolve.. not all of us have the easy digestion of milk gene for example so a crossdressing gene could have evolved after the advent of gender sapecific clothing.

It's purely speculative though, there might not be a crossdresser gene. There are plenty of other possible medical causes to explore.

As for the ancient world... well the scythians had religious crossdressers IIRC and i heard it occured amongst the romans. The ease at which it could be done varies with technology, wealth and fashion of course but what kind of togas were worn by closeted folk in the years BC.. who knows?

[RobertaFermina]

In my case there was also an early childhood event that seems to have released an inclination towards crossdressing. The fact that I never forgot that moment brings home its significance. But if it had not happened then perhaps it might have happened later in life.

I first dressed at age 20. So I'm one of the very few percent of young adult onset crossdressers.

I did have THAT early experience which might have made me susceptible to sustaining the joy of CD.

At age 5 or 6 had friends next door. The "lets play together, make mud pies, run around, play tag" variety.

They moved. Leaving me with my dad, and 4 brothers..I was 4th oldest and kinda bored at home - maybe a little stifled.

One day I went to the vacant house where my friends lived, and went inside. I took off my clothes and spent hours just wandering around inside, in the light from the windows, or in the darkness of the closets.

I wandered around the windows, ducking so I could not be seen.

I remember a great sense of wonder and freedom, to be naked and alone in this house.

I did this several times (memory is not perfect) and remember it as my moment of knowing the wonder of life, that golden moment.

That goldenness is not what Roberta brings to the party, but what she so easily sustains through all the minutes and hours of her being.

I am Roberta, I am golden.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Mikala0589]

I don't really believe I was born this way. I just started crossdressing about a year ago when I was 25 y.o. I really only do it for fetish purposes but I guess I can't really rule out anything in the future.