Do you detest items that are forced on men?

[Jamie001]

As many of you know, I am a Freestyler and therefore present in an andrognyous fashion. I completely detest items that are forced upon men such as neckties. I don't even own a necktie and never will own one! Why do some companies require men to wear neckties when women can wear anything that has an open neck? This is grounds for a sexual discrimination lawsuit. When wearing men's shirts, I will always choose fem colors like pink and lavendar and wear fem shoes. Even if I dress in what would be considered "masculine clothing", I always add a significant fem touch and always carry a purse. It is really interesting to watch the reactions to the purse. In Europe it is rather commonplace and there are no reactions. In america, I constantly see people doing a double-take. It is really amusing. :D

I also hate tuxes and other items that make males look like soldiers wearing a uniform. (you too can attend your wedding and look like the waiter that is serving you). Male fashion is totally an oxymoron! :(

Does anyone else feel the same way regarding items that are forced upon men?

Jamie :hugs:

[Sheri 4242]

This is grounds for a sexual discrimination lawsuit.

Jamie: I completely agree with you about the double-standards, oxymorons, and, all-in-all, unfairness in standads and requirements. While I'd like to change a whole lot that you speak of, I am afraid that your "grounds for a sexual discrimination lawsuit," in re employment dress code requirements doesn't fly. Wish it did, but it doesn't. The reason being is that a company is free to establish certain standards of dress and conduct. You don't have to work for such a company, but if you do, you, because you applied to them, must follow their standards. This is why some companies can require you to wear uniforms -- from McDonalds to casino waitresses in Las Vegas -- and some can require that you wear a tie.

[prettywithsideburns]

I lOOOOOVE neckties! especially big, wide art deco print neckties! and sportcoats! for my money the sportcoat is the perfect garment owing to it's abundence of pockets, easy concealment of items in said pockets, and versatility (my spring sportcoat is a one-button "reservoir dogs" style coat, and it's my spring coat becasue it's light enough for warm weather, and I'm always one button away from either warm or cold.) but one thing I've really been digging lately is vests. most vests come equipped with two small pockets on either side that for the longest time were too small for most anything you might want to put in them. that is because they were originally designed to hold pocket watches. throughout most of the twentieth century pocket watches went out of fashion in favor of wrist watches... HOWEVER in recenter years the advent of the super small cell phone and the portable mp3 player have brought renewed usefulness to this old standard. each pocket fits a cell or a mp3 player perfectly with hardly a hint at whats in em! and since they have two you can carry both! it's the perfect modern high-tech age apparel!

also, a note on necties: I predict that in twenty years necties will be out of most workplaces in favor of the more homogeny-freindly polo shirt. the beauty of the polo shirt (from a corporate standpoint) is that it's unisex and looks equally mediocre on everybody. in this way they do not have to trust any employees to make any personal choices regarding attire. by contrast the suit and tie offer the wearer a myriad of subtle yet distinct choices as to what image they wish to present. in the eyes of the bosses this level of individuality is a power they would rather not cede to their underlings. so I predict in the future that ties will become a symbol of individuality.

just cause I love womens clothes doesn't mean I don't love guy clothes as well.

[SarahLynn]

Considering that i have always, when in the presence of men, presented myself as a manly man, and as i truly believe that we should always present our best before the world, i have never detested mens fashion. Dont' misunderstand, i have always admired ladies who wear high fashion, heels, hose, skirted suits, etc., and always attempt to present myself in this fashion when dressed.

What i detest are the skimpy clad women of today, the spears, hiltons, etc., They may be eye candy to some but the other is a seven coarse meal with two desserts. And i believe they are missing out on one of the true joys of womenhood.

And i really hate the sloppy way some men dress today. To me, they present to the world exactly what most women think of as what is wrong with men. No taste, no class, no mind, and no mannours.

So to answer your question in short form: NO.

SarahLynn

[Jamie001]

I believe that the only legal way a company can require wearing of a tie is if it is required for male and female employees. I believe that a lot of companies are enforcing this rule. I have seen airline employees and restaurant employees both male and female wearing ties. I believe that human resources is becoming more aware of the sexual discrimination issues that could possible arise. For example, if a woman is permitted to wear a business suit and a tie is not required, why is a tie required for a man...



Jamie: I completely agree with you about the double-standards, oxymorons, and, all-in-all, unfairness in standads and requirements. While I'd like to change a whole lot that you speak of, I am afraid that your "grounds for a sexual discrimination lawsuit," in re employment dress code requirements doesn't fly. Wish it did, but it doesn't. The reason being is that a company is free to establish certain standards of dress and conduct. You don't have to work for such a company, but if you do, you, because you applied to them, must follow their standards. This is why some companies can require you to wear uniforms -- from McDonalds to casino waitresses in Las Vegas -- and some can require that you wear a tie.

[Kate Simmons]

I agree with Barbara. Once you sign on with a company, you agree in principle to abide by their dress code. If you buck them, it is grounds for termination because they have a certain image they want to present for business. Now, if you are required to wear a company uniform and have a locker room to change in, what you wear to and from work is your own business, providing you can put up with any potential harrassment from co-workers.
As far as formal wear, that is your choice as well for the same reasons, unless of course it is a company function and, as such, it requires you to dress in a certain way because you are usually getting paid for that and have to abide by their rules. It's always a choice but you need to use judgment and consider all the alternatives before expressing yourself, especially when it concerns your livelyhood.:happy:

[Deborah_UK]

Even if I dress in what would be considered "masculine clothing", I always add a significant fem touch and always carry a purse. It is really interesting to watch the reactions to the purse. In Europe it is rather commonplace and there are no reactions. In america, I constantly see people doing a double-take. It is really amusing. :D



It's certainly not commonplace in this part of Europe! :sad:

[tiffianycd]

I think neckties look great on both sexes. but if a comany wants us to where one then we got to follow by there rules. I do not want to get rid of them since you can have really alot of own personality to them. work force has to have a certian look to them. when done using them they make good silk pillows.
alot of women whering clothes that have evrything hanging out or to tight like everything being squeezed out of them. men dressing with their pants around their ankles. this one guy gets up into my face while holding up his pants with one hand as he was flipping me off with the other. ( kind of funny to see again)
women dressing with a binki top and shorts when its 10 below zero come now by a coat woman.
and gang colors being brought into the workforce also was a cause for many companys going uniforms. and tattoos to and of course Cd's but one thing is we can where what ever we want in public places.

[Sheri 4242]

I believe that the only legal way a company can require wearing of a tie is if it is required for male and female employees. I believe that a lot of companies are enforcing this rule. I have seen airline employees and restaurant employees both male and female wearing ties. I believe that human resources is becoming more aware of the sexual discrimination issues that could possible arise. For example, if a woman is permitted to wear a business suit and a tie is not required, why is a tie required for a man...


I agree with Barbara. Once you sign on with a company, you agree in principle to abide by their dress code. If you buck them, it is grounds for termination because they have a certain image they want to present for business. Now, if you are required to wear a company uniform and have a locker room to change in, what you wear to and from work is your own business, providing you can put up with any potential harrassment from co-workers.
As far as formal wear, that is your choice as well for the same reasons, unless of course it is a company function and, as such, it requires you to dress in a certain way because you are usually getting paid for that and have to abide by their rules. It's always a choice but you need to use judgment and consider all the alternatives before expressing yourself, especially when it concerns your livelyhood.:happy:

Yep, legally they can impose whatever they want as long as it meets a reasonable man standard. This said, there have been a few test cases where men have challenged rules about earrings. Thus far the courts have essentially sided with corporate America. The only enroad that has been made has turned out to be a double edged sword. In some cases, GGs have been restricted on wearing earrings b/c a GM has sued to be able to wear them. This is why some companies have restrictive policies that state that only certain style and sizes of studs can be worn. We aren't talking about public constitutional law, at least not the way the courts have recently ruled. The courts have upheld that a company can require that employees conform to a certain prescribed dress code that represents the image the company wants to project.

Cases regarding earrings in public school settings have followed a similar pattern. In some rulings, the courts have said that if girls can wear them, then boys must be allowed to wear them, too --- BUT, the same courts have then held that the schools faced with such can dictate size and style. In a very few cases, some school districts have outlawed either sex wearing earrings, thus the double edged sword comes into play.

The private sector has been protected, in re dress codes. "Corporate image" has, thus far trumped!!!

[prettywithsideburns]

I think neckties look great on both sexes.

the defense presents exhibit A: Patti Smith's "Horses"

the defense rests.

[Hermione Simpson]

i don't detest all items which are forced on men, just the ones i can't femme up a bit, but i most admit when i was at school i really detested my uniform, i always wished i could of worn the girls uniform instead

[Kate Simmons]

We had to wear company uniforms at work. In the beginning, the women's uniforms, while like the men's, had been modified with darts in the shirts and the pants to accommodate their wider hips. Well, one day, someone complained about it (don't remember who) and as a result, the women's uniforms were the same as the men's from then on. Go figure! Just another example of what Barbara said.:happy:

[cindychan]

It's strange. I feel femme in almost anything I wear including ties and stuff.

[Ermintrude]

In a summer heatwave some years ago, I remember watching men wilting in suits and ties while the girls coped by wearing lightweight frocks, bare legs and sandals. It seemed very unfair at the time.

Most of the time it doesn't really bother me, though. I guess I've just got used to it.

There is one GG in the organisation who dresses in a pinstripe suit, shirt and tie, has short hair and looks fantastic. Good for her, but it does show that there is some inequality between the sexes.

I agree with Deborah_UK about purses, in this part of the world people (of both sexes and all ages) are more likely to be carrying a rucksack these days.

[Chantelle CD]

It's strange. I feel femme in almost anything I wear including ties and stuff.

I like this reply a lot!! also like your signature " love and win, hate and lose" that is reality summed up in a few words!!

men are masculine, woman are femanine, I think the styles for each, are right. Men wield swords, woman heal ther wounds. Mens clothing is rugged, womans clothing is dainty, fits the roll of the sexes to me. What would hot be, if there was no cold?

[Angie G]

Yes I do for onething Pants :hugs:
Angie

[Lawren]

I have no problem with any individual items. Let them wera what they want. My problem is with the entire "male image" that is expected.

[Karren H]

Well I love neck ties!!! I have 40 or 50 and wear them to work every day... Some really cute ones to!!

So who's forcing this on us anyway..... And is it any different than women being forced to wear heels?? Give me a break.... Might as all wear womens jeans and you will all look the same.... Then you'll be happy??

Jeeeeezzzzzzeeeee

:tongueout

Love Karren

[Marla S]

Neck ties .... they always remind me of a bib ... and are quite often used as that.

I can't help it .. for me neck ties almost always look a bit ridiculous.

I have a few myself of course, but I have to be in a mood to be able to lough about myself to wear them.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

While I would prefer wearing femme items, I don't detest male items. I even feel good and my male side is getting some breathing room when I am actualy in a suit wearing a necktie, etc. I guess it makes realize the joys of being a cross dresser. You can enjoy the best of both worlds. Jocelyn

[CharleneCD]

I dont detest male clothing. I really enjoy looking sharp in a nice suit. What I do detest is the lack of color selection. Go try to buy a pair of mens shorts. You get black, blue, Khaki, green, and maybe white. How about something with a little life to it.

[marie354]

I've only worn a necktie about 4 times in my entire life... My first wedding, both my parents funerals, and one formal dance I attended in '93. Other than that, the few I have collect dust. I'll probably never wear one again. Come to think of it, I think that I've either given them all away or thrown them out by now.

I didn't mind wearing uniforms for work. Most employers expect you to represent them well to the public, and so you should. But any other time, just who requires you to wear anything? I wear what I want when I'm on my time. Now since I'm retired... All the time it's my time! Hehe.

I guess if I had to, for some unforeseen reason in the future, would don a suit and a tie if I had to. BUT... Only if I had to.
:hugs:

[KandisTX]

In my line of work, corporate sales, I am expected to be dressed "business professional", this requires a necktie, and sometimes suit jacket as well. It really depends on the companies dress code as to what has to be worn.

While I am often wearing a suit all day (because I'm wearing something lacy and feminine underneath), I have no real choice in what I have to wear every day.

Kandis:love:

[rose382832]

there are so many variations on the necktie that there is no reason for anyone to feel forced to wear anything. there is the texas string tie( an excuse to wear loud jewelry around your neck) , there is the ascot( wear a nice silk scarf tied so as to hide the buttons on your shirt), there is , for cold weather , the turtle neck or cowl neck, and one can use any of the above ties as an expression of ones female side by using tie clips, tie pins, different fabrics and different colours. tuxedos have the same variations as normal clothing so you have the same options( pink tux jacket, lavender band collar shirt( no tie required) and pastel blue pants.):hugs:

[sandra-leigh]

I've only worn a necktie about 4 times in my entire life...

I had to wear one when I was young and worked for a computer consulting firm working at customer sites (25 years ago). I never ever got used to it, and never learned how to tie it -- just loosened it enough to get over my head. But other than working for that firm, there have been very few times. A few years back I was Best Man; my friend knew me well, the first thing he said after asking me was, "I won't ask you to wear a suit".

[Gretchen]

I don't mind wearing my male duds and probably average about 60% of a seven day week in drab. But....it is soooo boring. Whether casual or dress wear, men's clothing to me is just plain flat and unexciting. It just feels like cloth on my body, nothing more. I don't detest men's clothing but can now see why I don't buy much of it anymore. I have been dressing up completely en femme for about 2 years and can remember only about 4 items of men's clothing I have purchased in that time.
Can't honestly give you numbers on what all I have purchased in women's clothing during that time. It's fun buying it, putting it on and wearing it as much of the day as I can get away with. Soft, silky, colorful, pretty and...frequently sexy.
Can I honestly say that about any article of men's clothing I wear?
Gretchen

[susie evans]

karren you now have a new assignment to wright a new dresscode that includes make up/wig/andor/long hair/blouses/dresses/skirts/nylons/heels/and nice jewlery ever day this must be submitted for board review withen the next ten working days and this shall include all people :devil:

susie

[Stacy GG]

I believe that the only legal way a company can require wearing of a tie is if it is required for male and female employees. I believe that a lot of companies are enforcing this rule. I have seen airline employees and restaurant employees both male and female wearing ties. I believe that human resources is becoming more aware of the sexual discrimination issues that could possible arise. For example, if a woman is permitted to wear a business suit and a tie is not required, why is a tie required for a man...

I know you are correct about necktie's for restraunts, I work as a Waitress at Cheddars and all Wait Staff are required to wear Ties.

[Jamie001]

Karen,

I disagree with your analogy. Many corporate dress codes require ties for men. I don't know of any corporate dress codes that require heels for women. I don't think that would fly. On the other hand, I am sure that some non-professional organizations such as Hooters do require heels for women.

Jamie :hugs:


Well I love neck ties!!! I have 40 or 50 and wear them to work every day... Some really cute ones to!!

So who's forcing this on us anyway..... And is it any different than women being forced to wear heels?? Give me a break.... Might as all wear womens jeans and you will all look the same.... Then you'll be happy??

Jeeeeezzzzzzeeeee

:tongueout

Love Karren

[Jamie001]

The real question is:

If the dress code is "business professional" then why is a many required to wear a tie, but if a woman chooses to wear a business suit, she is not required to wear a tie. Do you see my point?


In my line of work, corporate sales, I am expected to be dressed "business professional", this requires a necktie, and sometimes suit jacket as well. It really depends on the companies dress code as to what has to be worn.

While I am often wearing a suit all day (because I'm wearing something lacy and feminine underneath), I have no real choice in what I have to wear every day.

Kandis:love:

[Billijo49504]

I wore the company furnished uniform for many years. The blue shirt, baggy so my bra wouldn't show, and blue work pants, that were long enough that my nylons wouldn't show. Or coverlls that were company furnished. They wereover my bra and panties and sometimes, a garter belt and nylons or just thi hi nylons. Yes, I took a lot of chances when I still worked, but at least I was comfortable...BJ

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Does anyone else feel the same way regarding items that are forced upon men?

Some here will testify that I hate having beer forced`on me :drink:

Seriously though, I can tolerate most male clothing except for shirts and ties.

[Frankie-Dear]

This is all pretty new to me, so I'm like a kid, here:

But browsing through the women's sections of the store:
So many colors and textures and styles and patterns... WOW!! Amazing!!

Then over to the men's side:
Drab earth tones, rough fabrics, denim... It's like a friggin' wasteland.


Jeez.... :rolleyes::mad::thumbsdn:

[rose382832]

i spent twelve years in the army and was told every day that i had to wear the green clothes.( so were the girls or women or ladies) since then i have to figure out if the pink tshirt goes with the black pants, or should i wear the grey ones( ohmygod a choice before i've had my first coffee:heehee:). i still love to dress but some times, for special occassions i choose to wear a tux( i own 2) to make my S.O. feel special when she dresses in a fancy gown for a night at the ballet or dinner somewhere fancy. she lets me dress when i want so the least i can do is dress for her when she needs me to.

[JoAnnDallas]

Jaime001....


I disagree with your analogy. Many corporate dress codes require ties for men. I don't know of any corporate dress codes that require heels for women.

I used to work for GE's Turbine Division. All of the men HAD to wear SUIT and TIE and ALL the women had to wear either a DRESS, SKIRT/BLOUSE, or DRESS SUIT WITH HEELS. GE expected all their engineers/techs/designers/PA's to look respectable at all times to customers.

[wtb Jessica]

I do very much detest items that are forced on men. Just don't see why things have to be that way history can prove otherwise about what men and women would wear. So why this day and age are there items that are forced on men. Really does not seem right.

[Jena11]

I of course detest everything that is forced upon us. I would lke to see the younger people get into high roles, then maybe we can get rid of dress codes and focuse on what is important. Peoples work. not how they look. I of course hate to wear a tie. It is because I hate to wear anything that is completely male. I do have to sometimes for work. It is just really a bummer to me. I would rather wear any female clothes always then wear mens stuff. :mad:

[Ammdi]

I think neckties look great on both sexes.
So do pantyhose!

[jo_ann]

The only times I've worn a tie is to an interview (wore a tux on my wedding), that's about it. I've (luckily) never had to wear a tie to work. I tend to wear more flowing dress shirts to work (thin fabric, sometimes ribbed). I never wear a wristwatch either, not sure if it's because it annoys me being on the wrist, or it's another sexist thing (mens watches being huge and women's being thin and dainty). I try to dress as adrodynous as possible.