Greatest fear as a CD

[Frankie-Dear]

I'm just now getting into this, and my motive, is that it's is important to me to pass. I don't know why... That's just.... how it is.

My biggest fear, is that after spending money for clothes and make-up and breastforms, and stuff, is that in the end, my face or build are too masculine to ever pass.

This hit me rather suddenly, last night. I'm feeling a bit discouraged... :straightface:

[Karren H]

Well that's too funny......... since most of our fears are getting caught, loosing our wives, loosing our jobs, friends kids..

But if your debating the economics of crossdressing.... There is none.. Is a bottomless hole where you'll continue to dump money for as long as you want.. Even longer than you want.. If your affraid the the outcome won't be satisfactory maybe better switch your hobby to bowling.... Lol

Karren

[Frankie-Dear]

Thanks.... Thanks.... I appreciate the belittling of my fear. That's real helpful.

It's not the economics of it, though.


*sigh*

[Karren H]

Thanks.... Thanks.... I appreciate the belittling of my fear. That's real helpful.

It's not the economics of it, though.


*sigh*


Your welcome... Hehe...

A lot of us spend $1,000s and $1,000's a year and have no clue what the end results will be. And just hope that we can look as fem as possible.. But its not the over-riding concern... So I didn't mean to belittle your fear but in the grand scheme of things, at least in MY grand scheme of things, is a minor consideration...

Karren

[battybattybats]

Sometimes its good to have your fear belittled.. it can help to get things into perspective... monstrous shapes in the shadows vanish under strong light :)

There is something to be learned here. Passing is very important to you. The question next is why is it important to you as that could help raise your self-knowledge.

Would it still be fun if you could never pass 100%? I'm pretty sure you'd end up finding out in the affirmative. And I wouldn't give up on passing too soon. I've seen and met some very masculine GG's over the years.

[Frankie-Dear]

Okay... Maybe fear was too strong of a term for it. My greatest concern, then. Better?

As for the why... To be able to go out and pass, to me, is kind of like the ultimate measure of success.

[Stephenie S]

Yeah, Frankie, Batty is right. Think about it. Is the whole reason you CD just to "pass"? Or do you get some other pleasure from it? If passing is your only goal, maybe you're aiming a bit too high. Passing, as in "fooling" or "tricking" the world into believing that you are a GG 100% of the time, is a problematic pursuit. I really don't know if it's possible. I think the best you can do is to blend in so that others just don't look that closely, and to dress and act in such a way so as when they do look closely enough, you don't offend.

So, dress nicely, act confident, SMILE, and get out there.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Marla S]

Passing is a question of the distance and light.

Most will pass on a short walk during the night.

Noone will pass sitting with some others at a table and having some drinks in bright sunlight.

Everybody has a personal passing distance, depending on the physical properties and feminine skills.

You better get used to the thought that passing in every situation is IMPOSSIBLE.

That shouldn't prevent you from dressing and going out. Just be realistic.

[Billijo49504]

Frankie, I would suggest going to the grocery store, just to look at all the different women. become a people watcher. You'll notice they come in all different shapes and sizes, and most fit the sterotype, but you'll notice some that make you wonder.
And also, you have be able to be laughted at. Hold your head high and put a smile on your face and go out and enjoy your self. Just dress and do your makeup to fit in, and not to stick out.
I know some gurls just look in the mirror, but for me, that doesn't work. What did work was to take a picture of myself. Then look at it to analize the look at a later time. My mirror tells me wow, but sometimes the camera says Ooop's!!!
And as far as the cost of CDing, Karren said it best. .......BJ

[Frankie-Dear]

Thank you! That's really great advice, and I appreciate it.

Karren, Batty, Stephenie, Marla, and Billijo.... Food for thought. :thumbsup::hugs:

[Emily Ann Brown]

I agree with Batty......why the need to pass? The answer will set you free.


And ignore Karren, or at least cut her some slack. Probably still recovering from a hockey puck to the head.


Emily Ann

[Frankie-Dear]

:lol:

[susie evans]

karren is right frankie i don't evan try to count the time or the money invested , i would get depressed i just keep charging foward like the calvery :heehee:

susie

[JoAnnDallas]

As for passing, I have now gone out en fem among people and have not had anyone yell TRANNY. Passing is wearing approate clothing, not over doing it with makeup, blending into your surroundings, and acting like you do this each and every day. There are so many variations between GG's, that as long as you don't look like a DQ, or make yourself stand out, most people will not even give you a second glance.
I went into a 7/11 one evening, got a bottle of water out of the cooler, and stood in line to pay. There were two younger 20 something GG's in the store, one was on her cell and paid no attention to me at all. Her GF glanced over at me, smiled, and turned away looking bored. I paid for my water and walked out. That was it. My avatar shows the outfit I was wearing. Now if I had walked in looking like a DQ, I would have gotten stares and OMG's.
It is all in the presentation and attitude. Remember the DUCK. LOL

[Tara Julliette]

Hi Frankie, I read your concerns and courage in sharing them.

The support from all your friends in the forum is strength to draw from.

When fears and doubts arise in us its very easy to let our emotions get caught up and we carried away by them.

We as human beings, young and old, in all sorts of circumstances face fears at sometime of being outside some percieved 'norm', being rejected or chided for staying true to ones heart.

But if we are to be happy, looking outside will never provide the answer, rather its looking inside, thats where the real battles are won, where each of us have real a say in own happiness and destiny.

Sometimes what we hang onto so tightly as our idea of what will make us happy, becomes the very impediment to that happiness. We cant see that it is the very thing that we have to let go of. But it cant be known until we experience it first hand. Life and learning is after all experiential. What we need to recognise though is the importance of really coming to be comfortable with who we are, warts, wigs and all.

Just maybe then we can move just a degrees or two in our behaviour, to reduce the pressure of our often unrealistic expectations, to let our inner beauty and radiance shine through like a beacon for others.

This forum and the understanding our family of like minded friends offers is a safe haven. Stay close. Be kind to yourself and give yourself a chance to succeed on your own terms, one small step at a time.

Why does one need to 'pass' some line in the sand. The world is what we make it, we need not make it any harder.

And always remember to celebrate each little success. Tell yourself well done.

I found the following quote in an online magazine. Hope you find it of support.

"There's something you hate about looking different and then there's something that it gives you,"...."It makes you develop your personality. Because you don't conform, you have to find different ways of expressing yourself." Nicole Kidman

Wishing you happiness always.

Tara Odette

[Frankie-Dear]

Thank you again for the reasurrance and advice. :) I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. :)

[Ema1234 GG]

For everyone, and this include's GG's as well as CD's it is very important to dress to what suits your shape. Not all clothes suit everyone and it's important to wear things that highlight your best features and minimise your "problem" areas. There's a lot of advice out there for GG's with specific body shapes about wearing clothes that flatter them. I think you could probably learn from some of that advice.

If you think your shoulders are too broad, then look at the advice for GG's with narrow hips/no waist.

If you think you're arms are too muscular, then look at the advice for GG's who don't like their upper arms.

It's all about wearing clothes that create the right illusion.

And in terms of your face, well I'm probably not that well qualified to advise you best on that one but I'd say the right wig will help to flatter your face. Have a look at the advice about hair styles for specific face shapes. Specific hair styles look best on people with oval/heart shaped, strong jaw lines etc.

The company I work with is involved directly with Littlewoods Direct, a home shopping company in the UK, who have recently teamed up with Trinny and Susannah to offer fashion advice.

If you go on their website it offers fashion advice for specific body shapes. Click on the style advisor link from the home page and you can select what advice you need and it will show you specific clothes that are good for your shape.

http://www.littlewoodsdirect.com

[Mitch23]

Yeah, Frankie, Batty is right. Think about it. Is the whole reason you CD just to "pass"? Or do you get some other pleasure from it? If passing is your only goal, maybe you're aiming a bit too high. Passing, as in "fooling" or "tricking" the world into believing that you are a GG 100% of the time, is a problematic pursuit. I really don't know if it's possible. I think the best you can do is to blend in so that others just don't look that closely, and to dress and act in such a way so as when they do look closely enough, you don't offend.

So, dress nicely, act confident, SMILE, and get out there.

Lovies,
Stephenie
Agreed - been out six times to the mall now, twice to support group and once to a club and lots of driving around. Made lots of networks with sympathetic guys, girlies and GGs. Today I thought, I feel like a girl - I dont really care now whether I pass or not, only that I blend. For the first time didn't feel like a guy in a dress , I belonged in that girlie world! Went to changing rooms twice, dialogued with lots of really sweet SAs and had a great time. Knew what I wanted to buy, some cosmetics, some lunch, some outrageously short shorts. just had to get a top to match and finally some panties. I'm not daft enough to think I fool everyone or anyone although I think I'm pretty good - until I get close and have to speak!

I'm not sure whether its my ultimate goal or just a small step along the journey - or what the ultimate goal even is - but for the time being I'll settle for the buzz of the shopping therapy and feeling like I belong!

I'm rambling now but hope that helps!

Mitch

[marie354]

Frankie, if you count your pennies, you'll be counting for a long time.
I don't even want to imagine how much I've spent. Over the years I'm sure that by now it has to be over $10,000 on clothes alone.

Don't worry about passing, like Karren is always pointing out... It's all about attitude. Just be yourself... Hold your head high, smile, and enjoy it.
:hugs:

[Dixie]

Like anything else Frankie it is gonna take alot of work, and you have to work with what you got. Watch the GGs and pick out those with your body type etc..., and see how they dress use their makeup etc..., it should help you acheive your goal.
On a side note, my wife and I when we first started going to Quincy's bar in Grand Junction saw what we thought was the worst looking dragqueen ever, there was no way that he could pass as a GG no way!! Turns out he is a she and IS a GG! I guess it just goes to show ya, You can't judge a book by it's cover.

[Frankie-Dear]

Wonderful! Thank you so much!! *BEAMING!*

[Brianna Lovely]

Frankie, I started "going out" late in life. Sometimes I think, "I should have started going out when I was in my twenties", then I realize, I can't change the past, but must live in the present.

So, just like many GGs, I dress in a "practicl" maner, for every day things, like going to the store, etc. When it comes to special occasions or spending some time with other girls, I wear full makeup, wig, forms etc.

Do I think I pass, when fully dressed? Sometimes.

But that's not important. What matters is, that I'm beautiful inside, I accept myself, and I go out, into the world, being myself.

I realize that passing is very important, to some people, but I know that people will accept us for being ourselfs, not because we pass.

[Kate Simmons]

Frankie my friend, actually I feel you look pretty good in your avatar pic. I kinda think "passing' is over rated myself. I used to worry about it--yeah, who hasn't? Then I started thinking, why am I wasting so much energy over this? I decided to give it my best shot and go with it and it seems I was worried for nothing. In my first time in public, I had to interface with a lot of people(asking for directions and such) and they kept referring to me as "some woman" or "that woman" to who they were with. What I realized is that it's 95% attitude and 5% appearance. If you act like who you want to be and act like you "belong" it's not such a big deal anyway and if some do manage to "clock" you, so what? I concentrated on enjoying being myself and it made a big difference to me.:happy:

[Frankie-Dear]

Again... Sage advice. Thank you so much, everyone! :hugs::hugs::love:

[Sally24]

From your avatar and info in some of your posts I don't see any insurmountable characteristics that would prevent a feminine appearance. Your height, 5'10" is actually within the upper end of regular GGs. Depending on your general shape you could try dieting or a corset for a more defined waist. Your face in your avatar doesn't appear to have an overlarge nose or a prominent eyebrow ridge. Those are hard to disguise. You even seem to have good cheekbones. Give us a good look at you when you're ready and we'll see if we can offer any more advice.

3 years ago I had very little hope but I've come a long way and I'm quite happy with my appearance now. It just takes alot of work, and practice....

[Karren H]

Sally is right... sometimes we forget where we came from and how long it took to get where we are today....

Here are some old before and afters.... http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57448

Karren

[prettywithsideburns]

you'll never think you'll look passable enough, no matter how passable you in fact may be. I've never heard of anyone thinking they do (including many who are indistinguishable from GG's). so making that your benchmark for success in crossdressing is only going to make you self conscious and depressed. instead of shooting for "passable" why not just shoot for pretty? define on your terms what that means, and make it happen. then you aren't bound to the standard of looking exactly like a woman, merely your own standard of what is pretty. you may not even have to look it, it may be enough just to feel it (I know I enjoy my crossdressing most when I stay away from mirrors, because the feeling pretty isn't shattered by the not looking it).

anyway, I'll put it this way (WARNING: SPORTS METAPHOR AHEAD!)- if you like playing basketball with your friends on weekends, you don't give it up just because you can't get into the NBA. no, you enjoy it at your own level.

[SandyR]

In my early years I tried so hard to convince my self I was not a CD, then I realized it was a part of me. Best advice I can give is to take it slow, don't rush things. Get confident with your self, then things will fall in place. Be proud stand tall, and always look em straight in the eyes. Of course good make up, nice cloths and shoes always goes a long way......lol!


Welcome, and hugs...

SandyR

[Seville]

are all part of the complete package. A man clomping around is a
dead giveaway.

[Rachel Morley]

Oh dear .... the passing problem is always such a sensitive situation because IMHO there are so many different degrees of passing.

If the definition of passing is that people totally and completely believe you are a woman, then take it from me, there are very very few people that can achieve that. Some can achieve it to a pretty good degree in the sense that as long as people don't get too close or if they do get close up it's not for very long, or that they don't have to speak, then you can sort of pass.

However, if you consider passing as people not looking at you or the ones that do look at you seem totally oblivious and don't say anything, which let's face it is what I think most people consider as "passing", then let me tell you that IMHO, people are way smarter that that. They know, (or at least suspect) they just don't say anything (bit like when you interact with a special needs person you tend to ignore the disability). This, for the most part, is where I'm at. I know most people know, I'd just rather they not let me know that they know. I want to stay in my fantasy world for as long as I possibly can! :D

My advise to you is try not to be too concerned. I have to be careful what I say here, because I am just as guilty as the next person about making a big deal about being read ... especially when it comes to having a manicure en femme at a "regular" nail salon, which I still haven't had the bottle to do yet! :(

[kirsti]

I think to a certain degree every CD attempts to pass.
While some may have much higher goals.
Think perhapes the underlying question here is whether or not you can acheive your goal so as far as it meets your expectation that you wont get gawked at like an obviouse CD.
Maybe you'd like some attention,but not too much so as to maybe become embarressed.
Like many of the girls have stated,DONT over do the makeup,I personnaly think that it can actually make things worse.
Another is to learn how to properly apply cosmetics if you need to wear any,blending is one of the most important steps.
The other of course is the clothing,including any under garments,and dont forget,to wear clothing that is currently suitable for the season.
Greatest fear is probably being arrested and put in jail with a bunch of Guy's while being dressed.

[gmss]

Frankie: I'm on side buddy.

I'm also setting passing as a goal. I believe that it helps. It's important for me because it allows me to set the bar and shoot for a goal. That gives me a way to measure change.

raverbabe gg made some good points, Gotta work with what you got.

I'm giving myself til Christmas, given my present opportunity of available time.

That doesn't mean that I will be disappointed if I don't make it, and it doesn't mean that I don't love myself inside.

I'm just akinning the experience to the path of life. Set a reachable goal, and then shoot for it.

I may not ever be able to pass, but I don't know that right now, so I'm going to try.

And with respect to passing, I'm in sync with the thread. Not trying to be a runway model, just passable of average attractiveness for someone my age.

I think I can do it. That's my plan, anyway.

[Alice B]

My wife asked me last night if I want to be a woman when dressed. I told her that when I dress I want to look, feel and pass as a female as much as possible, but that I do not want to become a woman. I'm male and do not want to be anything else, except when dressed. Cost is not an issue as I thinnk and she does also, that quality counts and quality costs a bit more.:hugs:

[Kelsy]

As soon as you are confident you can pass, step onto a packed elevator and travel a few floors! The goal is to have fun and enjoy who you are, passing is for the blessed few!!:D

Jennifer:happy:

[MsJanessa]

I agree with Batty......why the need to pass? The answer will set you free.


And ignore Karren, or at least cut her some slack. Probably still recovering from a hockey puck to the head.


Emily Ann

I've said it ad neauseum and I'll continue to say it---it is far better(for Me anyway) to be accepted as a beautiful and glamorous T-Girl then "pass" as a so so ordinary looking GG---essentially passing means not drawing any attention to yourself--ask your self what kind of women get no attention paid to them---granted we would all like to pass as glamorous women but unfortunatly few of us look like Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton, Katherin Zeta-Jones or whoever is the Girl de jour of Hollywood----for 99.999% of us passing means being the middle aged lady in the supermarket who nobody is going to give a second glance at---not because she is beautiful and sexy but just the opposite---homely and more than a little plain and mousey---not for Me

[Frankie-Dear]

Thank you! Thank you! This is helping me get a fix on my own goals, modifying and clarifying them, and this has been on my mind for a while, so this is just great... Thank you so much, everyone!

:hugs::love:

[Joy Carter]

Now get out there and shop till you drop Hun.:D

[Frankie-Dear]

Hee hee... As if I needed any prompting on that!! I've always been one of the world's greatest shoppers. LOL

[Sylviaqwerty]

There is nothing wrong with your appearance that good make up and practised deportment cannot cure.
Of course you can pass. I wsih I had your looks.
Remember that G/G's spend their pre and early teens practising style and make up. Sometimes with bizarre results but we accept them as going though an experimenation period. You do not have such tolerance from society so practise on your own or with a friend.
Once you are satified with your image GO OUT.
Remember most people are interested in their own problems and business and are not too worried about your appearance unless it is particulalry striking.
Good luck

[Frankie-Dear]

Thank you again... Tonight, I hope to do my hair, (whatever can be done with it, at this juncture), make-up, and get dressed. I'll get some photos, too. :)

[samantha78]

I think that fear is on all of our minds but I have come to rather think bout how good I look and don't care what any one else says.

[Fab Karen]

I've said it ad neauseum and I'll continue to say it---it is far better(for Me anyway) to be accepted as a beautiful and glamorous T-Girl then "pass" as a so so ordinary looking GG---for 99.999% of us passing means being the middle aged lady in the supermarket who nobody is going to give a second glance at---not because she is beautiful and sexy but just the opposite---homely and more than a little plain and mousey---not for Me

Yeah, and some of us can't fade into the background- tall, big feet, big nose, whatever that makes us stand out somewhat even in boy-mode.

[Alice Torn]

I have not paid over 25 dollars for any dress, and only one, is brand new. Even my wigs, i found at thrift stores. But, when the ladies' clothes are close, within eyesight of the cashiers, I am more hesitant. When the ladies 'clothes are more off, out of cight, mor, I sneak and look. I am six foot six, and, may never pass, because of that, alone, let alone, my face shape. From the front, I can look passable, but, from the side, not much. Like, Marla said, it may be impossible, to pass all the time. If you stay. in the closet, you'll pass everytime. Thrift store finds, are so blasted fun, exciting, even guy stuff!

[trannie T]

I have no hope or chance of ever passing, it does not cause me any concern. I enjoy dressing and going out even if it is obvious that I'm a man wearing a dress. I dress because I have to, I go out because I like to.

[Tree GG]

My wife asked me last night if I want to be a woman when dressed. I told her that when I dress I want to look, feel and pass as a female as much as possible, but that I do not want to become a woman. I'm male and do not want to be anything else, except when dressed. Cost is not an issue as I thinnk and she does also, that quality counts and quality costs a bit more.:hugs:

This pretty much echoes what Darlene tells me.

Passing, pulling off the masquerade completely and being accepted/seen as a GG was a very big source of stress for her in the beginning. The more she gets out w/ other TG persons, I see that stress fading. Being a guy (who doesn't want to transition) in a dress is what it is and she is becoming OK with that. She takes care to dress appropriately in both fashion & makeup, but she is what she is and just like every other GG on the planet (everyone for that matter), you can only do so much. The vast majority of us will never win a beauty contest or an Oscar for a 100% believable performance.

I would definitely recommend finding a group of TG persons to start with. But careful, they're some of the most critical & vocal fashion/makeup police I've ever met. :D

[Frankie-Dear]

Thanks again, gurls. :hugs: I guess all we can do, is do the best with what we've got. To that end, I guess I'll see where the road takes me. :) :thumbsup:

[Alice B]

I'm 5'10" and have a very well defined upper body from years of swimming. It is easy to overcome and look very pretty as a woman. It's a matter of selection of the right clothes nand application of make-up. Plus, how youe feel when dressed is all that matters.:hugs: