Fetish or Personality?

[admirerplus GG]

I was told that CDing is simply a "fetish". The Oxford dictionary describes this word as, "...abnormal stimulus, or object, of sexual desire...". I find it difficult to believe that CDing is only about expressing a fetish.

I have been under the impression that CDing is much more complex. I thought that it was about expressing a part of one's personality.

I would love to get your opinions about this. Please tell me what you think.

[Toyah]

Fetish. If it is not it is an excuse to deny life.
I see to many CDs destroying themselves and their familys because they see it as important or a lifestyle its not unless you are TS it tends to be an excuse for deeper problems

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

Depends on the person.

It's a little of both for me because I have not really had the chance to express my "real" personality so it has to manifest itself some way I guess and it's usually in private.
I like to think depending on the person, if it's personality it's an inherant trait, if a fetish, that's more a learned bahavior.

[Toyah]

Depends on the person.

It's a little of both for me because I have not really had the chance to express my "real" personality so it has to manifest itself some way I guess and it's usually in private.
I like to think depending on the person, if it's personality it's an inherant trait, if a fetish, that's more a learned bahavior.

That is true but to be a CD you have to work out or learn a lot surely ???

[Pretty Sissy Dani]

For me, I'd have to say "fetish"...it's not a personality or a lifestyle, it's a method of sexual arousal.

[Julogden]

Crossdressing IS much more complex, for most, in my experience.

Crossdressing is a fetish only if sexual arousal is the crossdresser's main reason for crossdressing. From what I've seen here, we do have some fetishistic CD's here, but for many others, our reason for dressing involves gender identity issues as well as other issues. Just read all the postings here in all these forums, and it quickly becomes apparent that CD's come in lots of different flavors, and there are apparently lots of different motivations for what we do.

Many CD's, and some TS's for that matter, go through a temporary fetishistic phase of dressing for a time, but then move past that phase and then continue to dress because we find it to be something that fits us well, for whatever reason. I'd bet that no two of us have exactly the same motivations, so lumping all CD's together as being fetishists is just plain wrong and ignorant, in my opinion.

Carol:hugs:

[Bobbie Jo]

And what was the date of publication , that this Oxford book had...lololol..

[Rachel Morley]

I guess cross dressing "could" be seen by some people as being somewhat of a fetish if the person were only to think of crossdressers as people who tend to get sexually excited about wearing lingerie etc. A person might even say that it "could" be an fetish if you extend this thought process to someone who got sexually excited about just wearing the clothes. I know I used to get excited this way when I was younger.

However, nowadays, (for me) it's much more about my gender identity. Gender identity describes a person’s internal sense of which gender they are, and how they wish to be perceived by others, regardless of their biological sex. Wearing clothes that typically are associated with the gender I identify with, is a very easy way to move toward, and therefore express, my gender variant-feelings.

Yes, I think you are right crossdressing is way more complex than just being described as a fetish. IMHO, I think people who say that don't really understand the crossdressing spectrum. :2c:

[Alex!]

For me it is a form of artistic expression that simultaneously helps me relax by allowing me to "feel softer". It rounds out the rough edges. Other forms of artistic expression I explore allow me to tap other parts of my psyche.

For me, it is not a sexual fetish at all - in fact, it is such a pain in the neck to get dressed up there is no thought of sex whatsoever.

For a lot of crossdressers, however, my understanding is that the behavior is a form of sexual release. You can usually tell by the kinds of clothing a man choses to wear, but not always.

I also do not stradle the gender divide, as I am quite comfortable being male. When Andrea goes in the box, there is absolutely no trace of her left save what's in my head.

[Country girl]

I have read a lot of post and talked to a lot of CDers and from my POV, for a very few CDing is definately a fetish, however for a great number of people it is a lifestyle, something they feel compeled to do. No sexual connection whatsoever. Just my :2c:. :hugs: CG GG

[BarbaraTalbot]

As I try it openly with my GG. I find now, (and remember past experiences) as being arousing, but not exactly sexual as I experience as a male. I am still sorting this out. I am also sorting out the impetus for it for me. I 'blamed' mom's over reaction, now I think the urge to be my older sister was there.

I'm open to the idea that since I suppressed the urge just before I started being sexual (with myself) that maybe I am a CD with arrested development issues.

I think from reading on here that there is an infinite menu of dishes that are us. Ingredients include gender identity issues, environment/upbringing, experiences, personal tastes, orientation issues, and fetish use. Some dishes are made with a mix of all these, some only have one part. The proportions of each component are infinitely variable...~this is my so called 'rational' linear thinking Male Persona talking out loud.

[bgirl]

Fetish? Sometimes. but more often than not I just feel like myself.

[chucks]

it is not sexual at all for me. it is fun and makes me more humble.

[Lovely Rita]

definitely more than a fetish for me. It is an expression of who I am. The feminine in me, which is very big part of who I am as a person.

[sterling12]

Who told you it was a fetish? That's seems like an extreme over-simplification. In the past, I have attended some mixed CD/TS Groups and heard the phrase: "Yes but your just one of those fetish crossdressers." Thank God, most of that sort of thinking has been put away, and these days that is certainly not how most of our community feels.

Although many of us have favorite garments or styles of clothing we wear, and that might imply a "fetish" for that particular thing, it would be very shortsighted to try and sum up Cd's as fetishists. Anybody who bothers to actually talk to any of us, soon realizes the complexity of our very broad spectrum.

We are "complete people," full of complexities. Yes, I like to wear stockings as opposed to pantyhose, But, I've worn both and I don't need them for sexual purposes. Most people in life have preferences. You might love ice cream, does that make you a "fetishist?"

In summation, "PLEASE DON'T CALL ME THAT!"

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Kate Simmons]

I've found out that what it is for you depends on how well you know yourself.:happy:

[LilSissyStevie]

I'm not exactly sure how I would classify my relationship to crossdressing. It's not truly a fetish since I don't require feminine clothing for arousal, but it is very sexually stimulating to me. On the other hand, I'm definitely the "girl" in our bedroom although I don't necessarily have to be dressed like one. I'm just lucky enough to have found a woman who is as sexually dominant and aggressive as I am submissive and passive and one who enthusiastically indulges my weird desires. I've always thought of myself as some kind of a male lesbian or something like that. Even so, I can still be the "guy" since my wife still enjoys that sort of thing.

Outside of the bedroom I have little desire to dress. I have no desire to go out en femme or attempt to pass. (That's a good thing because it would be futile.) I don't want to be a woman. I can't say I have any feminine qualities at all.

[Valerie]

A fetish involves the idea of a replacement (not a person loved, but a shoe or a glove instead), and of being stuck and obsessed. It may be the case for some people. On the contrary, dressing with women's clothes allows me to feel that I am being myself and I relate more openly with other people. Most sentences that begin "X is simply ..."are poor descriptions of reality.

Valerie

[Alice B]

It's a good question that has as many answers as people on this site. Foe me I'm sure it was a fetish at first, but that phase has long since passed. I find myself more and more willing to express the female side of me and dressing is a form of deep emotional relaxation that expresses itself more and more via this site. But, at heart I'm a male and proud and comfortable with it. At the same time I'm also proud of my female side and becoming more and more comfortable with this. If, two years ago, I could read what I have posted in the past few months on this site I would be shocked. It will be interesting to see where I am two years from now, but I'm sure the male side of me will still dominate and it will be my choice.:love:

[Joy Carter]

I dressed as a small child so it had nothing to do with sex until I was twenty. That I wish had never happened. I wish I knew more about myself and cross dressing at the time. Maybe I'd had accepted myself earlier. In my mind since the beginning I feel I was given the wrong gender. So fetish ? Not in the woman's view.

[Sheri 4242]

Who told you it was a fetish? That's seems like an extreme over-simplification. In the past, I have attended some mixed CD/TS Groups and heard the phrase: "Yes but your just one of those fetish crossdressers." Thank God, most of that sort of thinking has been put away, and these days that is certainly not how most of our community feels. Joanie

Joanie,

I think "admirerplus gg" made a mistake by going to the dictionary -- well, not necessarily by going to the dictionary, but by not going much, much farther. (The former educator in me comes out frequently b/c the dictionary and encyclopedia are good "starting points" to aim someone in the right direction, but they are hardly scholarly resources -- people need to follow through with sources that present academically sound research and analysis!!!) You, in part, have corrected this problem when you point out that "fetishtic" is not, "how most of our community feels."

One of the problems we, as a community face, though, is that psychology, psychiatry, and medicince hasn't quite caught up with what you and I think and know. The DSM-IV-TR still calls mft heterosexual CDing "fetishtic transvestism." The same is true in such highly-regarded medical reference books, such as The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy, and in countless psychological survey textbooks (I have a shelf-full, all current).

((( As an aside, we, as a community, have our work cut out for us if we want future revisions to be changed!!! A number of times since I have been posting on this forum, there have been threads questioning us when CDing began. While the responses cover a spectrum of ages, it is clear that for a great many, CDing began before there could be a sexual gratification component, thus in those cases, the word "fetish" cannot be applied as appropriate. Many authoritative writings point to this as proof that, while with some there may be a fetishtic attachment to CDing, it isn't necessarily the case -- and, in fact, in well over 50% of the cases, it isn't fetishtic at all. The fact that CDing is sometimes fetishtic, but "mellows out" and isn't fetishtic as we age, is also proof on our side. How/why the so-called experts have missed these compelling points is beyond me!!! )))


I have been under the impression that CDing is much more complex. I thought that it was about expressing a part of one's personality.

I am convinced you are on the right track with this line of thought. True, it is fetishtic with some, as Dani admits below . . .


For me, I'd have to say "fetish"...it's not a personality or a lifestyle, it's a method of sexual arousal.

But, as many point out, with maturity comes perspective, regardless if CDing was ever fetishtic to them or not. I like the way Rachel expressed it when she said:


However, nowadays, (for me) it's much more about my gender identity. Gender identity describes a person’s internal sense of which gender they are, and how they wish to be perceived by others, regardless of their biological sex. Wearing clothes that typically are associated with the gender I identify with, is a very easy way to move toward, and therefore express, my gender variant-feelings.

Yes, I think you are right crossdressing is way more complex than just being described as a fetish. IMHO, I think people who say that don't really understand the crossdressing spectrum.

My way of saying it is that CDing is the visible expression of how I feel -- while we are all different, I am a male who believes I have a dichotomous psyche -- one divided into two, but still one, and one of the two sides is strongly feminine (and medical research is finding new evidence that proves this).

Take it from a GG POV and a GM POV:


for a very few CDing is definately a fetish, however for a great number of people it is a lifestyle, something they feel compeled to do. No sexual connection whatsoever.CG GG


definitely more than a fetish for me. It is an expression of who I am. The feminine in me, which is very big part of who I am as a person.

IMHO, Rita hits the nail squarely on the head: It is an expression of who I am -- the feminine in me, which is a very big part of who I am as a person!!! Ditto, Rita, ditto!!!!!!!

[tall_brianna]

I don't know, but it is something way more than a fetish for me.

[Suzie S.]

No fetish here either. I have to agree with Lovely Rita as well. Dressing for me is just something I need to do, and enjoy doing. It is a way to express another side of my personality, and makes me feel complete. :hugs:

[Khriss]

..deep subject eh ?:D..not a joke realy..
..There was a magazine that had a section called "Mirror Mirror"..
and I still find myself wanting to improve the girl I see reflected in my mirrors..
, and the reasons are miriad for Khriss..while for whatever reason ,, I'd love to excell in being ,looking ,feeling , feminine ? myquestperhapsxx"K"

[Marla S]

I was told that CDing is simply a "fetish". The Oxford dictionary describes this word as, "...abnormal stimulus, or object, of sexual desire...". I find it difficult to believe that CDing is only about expressing a fetish.

I have been under the impression that CDing is much more complex. I thought that it was about expressing a part of one's personality.

I would love to get your opinions about this. Please tell me what you think.

For me the sexual aspect of CDing was the biggest burden on the way to self-acceptance and I think it was to a considerable part because of that kind of dictionaries you cited.
When I grew up CDing and fetishism was considered the same, and both were considered pervert ... of course, not knowing what actually is the truth, I believed those "experts". I think it is not hard to imagine what that means for self-confidence and self-esteem.
This can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think you can make it a fetish very easily, and most CDs seem to have a fetish like phase, some get stuck there, but IMHO it is not from its origin.

I think several factors contribute to it.

1.) Preference for stereotypical clothes (heels, bras, skirts, hose)
Because these are the most feminine clothes, they are most efficient to "cover" and distract form the masculinity of the own body. But they also could be seen as the prototype of a fetish.

2.) CDing induces narcism. You become aware of yourself, you start to like what you see. Male mode is kind of ... well ... doesn't really matter ... not much positive emotions involved.

3.) As a heterosexual CD you are attracted and feel attractive by the same stereotypes. That is a mix which makes it hard to differentiate between cause and effect.

4.) Male sexuality (especially during adolescense) is very easy to stimulate by visible and tactile stimuli. It doesn't really need a lot of fantasy or imagination to get aroused.

5.) Once aroused it is hard to stop the sexual act.

6.) Being in an erotic mood, is the time when you worry the least about social norms. Hence you dress preferably being in an erotic mood anyway, because you get rid of the social pressure (in your head) for a while.
If you are in a state of "sound mind" the social pressure often is strong enough to suppress your feminine side, hence you don't dress.

Blending narcism, being attracted, feeling attractive, male sexuality, and social pressure it is very easy IMO to become trapped in fetishim like behavior, because dressing and the sexual pleasure seem to be linked directly.

Personally it took me a considerable amount of time and energy to sort this out.
Today CDing for me is not sexual in the first instance, but due to increasing the self-esteem and having learned to like myself better it paved the way to a more free, less compulsive sexuality which I would consider to a good part feminine (without knowing what feminine sexuality actually is).
Dressing is a nice add for it, somtimes a means to become reassured of the own feminity (personality), but not necessary, not always wanted, and not the object of sexual pleasure.

If CDing would be sexual in the first instance I think it would have been a more easy way to self-acceptance, because old-fashioned as I am, I like to leave sexuality for privacy and home. Nothing for the public.
But I want to make my CDing public, to show the world who I am as a person and not as an object or subject of sexuality.

[Raychel]

I have read a lot of post and talked to a lot of CDers and from my POV, for a very few CDing is definately a fetish, however for a great number of people it is a lifestyle, something they feel compeled to do. No sexual connection whatsoever. Just my :2c:. :hugs: CG GG

I think that Country girl GG said it best. Not a fetsih, or personality expression, but more of a lifestyle. It really is not sexual for me, and my personality really does not change when I am dressed. So I guess it is just a clothing preference.

[Jere Oneil]

For me, it's not a fetish. . I just like the way clothes that are traditionally women's wear feel better than mens. Wearing them is not sexually arousing, but then, in my mid 60s, not much is.

[Cyndi06]

I just feel "more me" in my female attire. I feel unatural going braless, if that makes sense. In other words I am more self conscious in public without than with one on.

There was a time early on, as I think most have experienced the "fetish" phase.....it may be along the same lines as a "pink fog" we sometimes find oursleves in.

No days it's just me....and I appreciate and accept me for who, I am ..... for years I didn't.

My greatest concern was of course, my wife and her acceptance. Although she knew, it was still very very hard to "come out"

Hope that all made some sense. :itsok:

[Wendy me]

i use to think it was a fetish but now i believe it's something inside us that just is who we are.....

[rose382832]

when a cd can dress, and can go out in public without being aroused then it's not a fetish.most of the girls i have met, myself included, dont do it for arousal, we do it because we need to feel in touch with that part of our personality. myself, i feel much more relaxed and less stressed when dressed but prefer to be a male for sexual purposes, as well as at work.it just is nice to give up control occasionaly and be rose from time o time and relax and let life take charge.

[Brianna Lovely]

I've spent most of my life "incomplete". Knowing that there was something "more" to my "self", but not knowing what it was.

After a period of self examination, my deep feelings showed themselves and I accepted my being part female and part male. Although this has been a major turning point in my life, I've never felt so calm, beautiful and at peace with myself, as I do now.

I choose to express my female being, by dressing, because it feels comfortable, "right", and I don't know any other way to show other people, how I "feel".

So, my CDing is an expression of who I am, in my heart and mind.

[Teresa Amina]

No doubt there are many who are fetishists, but those who lump us all in that catagory use it as a pejorative and seek to keep us marginalised.

[AllThingsPretty]

It does not matter to me if it is called a fetish or not.

It's just me being me. The person I like to be. :D

[Mitch23]

when a cd can dress, and can go out in public without being aroused then it's not a fetish.most of the girls i have met, myself included, dont do it for arousal, we do it because we need to feel in touch with that part of our personality. myself, i feel much more relaxed and less stressed when dressed but prefer to be a male for sexual purposes, as well as at work.it just is nice to give up control occasionaly and be rose from time o time and relax and let life take charge.
couldn't have put it better rose. its part of life and I want to go with the flow. Went girlie shopping yesterday with wife and felt so uncomfortable - just wanted to be one of the girls!

Mitch

[Toyah]

Crossdressing IS much more complex, for most, in my experience.

Crossdressing is a fetish only if sexual arousal is the crossdresser's main reason for crossdressing. From what I've seen here, we do have some fetishistic CD's here, but for many others, our reason for dressing involves gender identity issues as well as other issues. Just read all the postings here in all these forums, and it quickly becomes apparent that CD's come in lots of different flavors, and there are apparently lots of different motivations for what we do.

Many CD's, and some TS's for that matter, go through a temporary fetishistic phase of dressing for a time, but then move past that phase and then continue to dress because we find it to be something that fits us well, for whatever reason. I'd bet that no two of us have exactly the same motivations, so lumping all CD's together as being fetishists is just plain wrong and ignorant, in my opinion.

Carol:hugs:

Same as lumping us all as TG hun :hugs:
Its as ofensive to me to be called TG as it is for you to be called a fetishist



I do wonder why we seem to think that CDs are some sort of asexual beings with no desire al all do you all I think you are running away from the sensuality because that scares you. Do you wear dowdy non exciting clothes because then you think being a CD is then OK and society will accept you as you are ?.
If that is the case thats why you all rally against the CD who actually does like sensual clothes and does not have an agenda and does not have hangups about being CD, just a thought!!!!!

[Julogden]

Same as lumping us all as TG hun :hugs:
Its as ofensive to me to be called TG as it is for you to be called a fetishist




Hi Toyah,

We've discussed this before, as you obviously remember, and I still maintain that you are putting your own unique spin on the meaning of transgender that no one else that I know agrees with, and I still don't fully get what your definition of transgender is, nor do I see what your beef with it is, other than stuff related to your conservative political beliefs.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender for about as decent a definition of the current usage of the term transgender as one can currently find. By that definition, if you wear women's clothes, makeup and a woman's hair style or wig, then that's transgendered behavior, and it's appropriate to call you transgendered.:2c:

I'm not going to take this any further here, as I don't want to hijack this thread, just wanted to respond to your posting.

Carol:hugs:

[michelleliz]

It has to be Gender Identity fo me, I dress 98 % of the timeand not for the sex feeling. It is who I am

Michelle

[morrisworful]

I believe it can be both, but moreso expressing ones self. When someone says "fetish" it sounds dirty and abnormal. What IS normal? People are scared of the unknown and put labels on it, to understand it better, but the thing is a label does nothing more than put something into a group. What about asking questions instead of pointing fingers and what about trying to understand one another instead of judging?

[Chantelle CD]

I said it before in past posts and going to say it again here :rofl:

Cross dressing comes from the fact that as men, we are able to feel female feelings emotions, and femininity.

Because they feel so good and strong, they feel as though there a part of us, and they are really and literally.

The word fetish, can relate to a stage of cross dressing, where the femininity makes the male in us aroused, because that is what is attractive to us. but this is short lived the longer one CD's

I tend to call it an obsession, simply because these feelings and emotions are felt totally, and becomes a need or a strong desire to keep on feeling them, how strongly one obsesses in this will show how good they become at it, it takes a lot of work, to become really good at this.

And then there are some that feel it is a gender thing, I'm not really 100% sure on this though myself, because these feelings and femininity feel so real, one can believe that it is a gender thing, they feel more alive feeling them over the male masculinity, because it is normal, and we forget how good they feel as well.

And then there is "If it feels good ...Do it"

[immike]

I was told that CDing is simply a "fetish". The Oxford dictionary describes this word as, "...abnormal stimulus, or object, of sexual desire...". I find it difficult to believe that CDing is only about expressing a fetish.

I have been under the impression that CDing is much more complex. I thought that it was about expressing a part of one's personality.

I would love to get your opinions about this. Please tell me what you think.
I find it a relaxing release from the problems of being a male,I have a marvelous time,walking through my mothers closets&dressing in her
wardrobe,of which I happen to be wearing one of her mini skirts,a pair of
fresh black pantyhose,one of her silk blouses&black heels

[leggy_tiana]

I think in the beginning it was a fetish. As I continued to dress more often, it turned into a pastime. And now that I dress on a regular basis and I am fully accustomed to seeing myself in the mirror as a "girl", I guess it has turned into a lifestyle. I no longer consider it a fetish because I can now simply enjoy spending hours at home dressed and feel comfortable enfemme without the sexual excitement.

Of course, that doesn't mean I no longer find the dressing and making-up exciting. I still do. However, being a girl means so much more to me now. Exploring the feminine lifestyle has always captivated me beyond just the dressing. The rite of dressing up and applying pretty makeup still excites me after all these years. Yet, achieving a semblance of feminine reality and fully accepting womanhood not only includes the way I dress and look, but also embraces a state of feminine behavior and conduct. All of these things help me better achieve a state of feminine reality. Being a girl is much a state of mind too. To me, being a woman also means expressing myself from within. To solely focus only on my image is to ignore the most glorious part of the truly feminine experience.

[CrossdressinGoth]

it all depends on the person it goes both ways for me, kinda hard to explain but its like ying and yang, you cant have one without the other

[sami1952]

cding to me is just expressing my inner side of me,that's who i am.

[KandisTX]

I have to agree with those that have said that "In the beginning, it was a fetish". Many of us begin at young ages, usually around puberty, and discovered that wearing moms, sister, someones panties or other garments were easy routes to sexual arousal. However, as we aged and continued on with our CDing, it became more of a lifestyle choice than a fetish as that aspect was more "controlable".

Kandis:love:

[BLACK STOCKINGS]

For me it is a form of artistic expression that simultaneously helps me relax by allowing me to "feel softer". It rounds out the rough edges. Other forms of artistic expression I explore allow me to tap other parts of my psyche.

For me, it is not a sexual fetish at all - in fact, it is such a pain in the neck to get dressed up there is no thought of sex whatsoever.

For a lot of crossdressers, however, my understanding is that the behavior is a form of sexual release. You can usually tell by the kinds of clothing a man choses to wear, but not always.

I also do not stradle the gender divide, as I am quite comfortable being male. When Andrea goes in the box, there is absolutely no trace of her left save what's in my head.



I find what you said fits me exactly. I agree with your thought 1000%

[Mitch23]

Thanks for all your posts girls - I'm still not clear what I am and why. Love fetish clothing but not a fetishist, love girlie shopping as a girl, as a guy, with my wife, without, love guy mode, love straight sex, like pretty T-girls. Just a crazy mixed up kid and loving it!

Mitch

[Lora Olivia]

For me it is not a sexual thing. Much more of a need to give that side of my personality a release. Having said that I must say i have had times where I found myself to be "excited"...not as a man is but as I feel a woman is....to put in 1 word I guess I would say SENSUAL

[aka.laura]

It's only called a fetish because the socalled normal majority of the world thinks it's abnormal. Forget about it, it's obsolete. We are all somewhere between two poles: male and female. Whatever you want to call it. It's never black or white. Some of us go the whole way and go through operations, others "just" like to wear nice undies. But we're all crossdressers so what the heck.

[LilSissyStevie]

There seems to be a false dichotomy at work here. Whether one uses women's clothing for sexual stimulation or to “feel like a woman,” the woman's clothing is a fetish. A fetish is merely a physical object that some power assigned to it. It could be a rabbits foot, a crucifix or women's clothing. In the case of cross dressers it seems that the feminine clothing can be either a sexual fetish or a gender fetish. For some dressing up is a sexual turn on and for others it helps them express femininity or perhaps it does both. I don't believe that the one fetish is some higher stage of the other. They are just different fetishes. Interestingly, my wife doesn't need to put on female clothing in order to get turned on or feel feminine nor does she need to in order to express her femininity. She just does.

[Alex!]

The more I consider gender and sex the more I realize that at some point in the future the shades and hues of these two apsects of human existance will cease to be dividing lines. I imagine a world that is not sexually Balkanized, if I can put it that way - where people move between gender and sexual satisfaction in unique and special ways. Just like borders in international relations are becoming irrelevant and cybernetic networks enable communications across thousands of kilometers, so too is this the case for gender and sex.

[ElleCD]

An apsect of cross dressing limited to wearing clothes associated with the opposite gender for sexual pleasure would be a fetish (and for those whose involvement is limited to that good luck and enjoy) but for us its much broader and deeper. It encompassess equality, freedom of expression, a breaking down of gender barriers and ultimately a lifestyle choice. Its a celebration of the feminine and encompasses how we approach relationships, our attitude to ourselves and others. The wearing of particular clothing clearly marks us out and represents the starting point for most if not all of us but but does not represent the totality of what crossdressing encompasses.

[Erinn]

Rationalize all you want , it is still a fetish and some take ot further that others do. Nothing wrong with a Fetish and the sooner you are honest with yourself the better.

[Country girl]

Erinn, I don't think anyone is rationalizing anything. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. For some they feel it is a fetish, while for others they don't. I for one don't see the average crossdresser as having a fetish. If I like to wear mens boxers because I find them more comfortable, does that mean I have a fetish? I don't think so. Just my :2c:. :hugs: CG GG

[Erinn]

Erinn, I don't think anyone is rationalizing anything. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. For some they feel it is a fetish, while for others they don't. I for one don't see the average crossdresser as having a fetish. If I like to wear mens boxers because I find them more comfortable, does that mean I have a fetish? I don't think so. Just my :2c:. :hugs: CG GG

As a crossdresser your opinon is moot. Lets ask the man on the street.
It is a Fetish and in some cases a multi-fetish too.

To thine own self be true. All the liars in the world still doesn't make it true.

[Julogden]

There seems to be a false dichotomy at work here. Whether one uses women's clothing for sexual stimulation or to “feel like a woman,” the woman's clothing is a fetish. A fetish is merely a physical object that some power assigned to it. It could be a rabbits foot, a crucifix or women's clothing. In the case of cross dressers it seems that the feminine clothing can be either a sexual fetish or a gender fetish. For some dressing up is a sexual turn on and for others it helps them express femininity or perhaps it does both. I don't believe that the one fetish is some higher stage of the other. They are just different fetishes. Interestingly, my wife doesn't need to put on female clothing in order to get turned on or feel feminine nor does she need to in order to express her femininity. She just does.
Hi Stevie,

Getting philosophical, eh? Invented a new term too, gender fetish:happy:

I guess you're expanding on another definition of fetish as being an object of magical power, guess that might, sort of, apply in some cases, but certainly not for all, or even many, but the original poster clearly stated that she was referring to the commonly used definition of a fetish as being something done for a sexual turn-on.

Personally, I don't wear women's clothing in order to feel like a woman, I wear them because I feel like a woman, so even with your expanded definition of fetish, it doesn't apply to me or to many others here according to what I've read. But you've brought up an interesting concept, food for future thought.

Also, I'm not seeing the dichotomy that you mention, the responses to the original poster make it pretty clear that different people have many different reasons for dressing, more of a continuum than a dichotomy.:2c:

Carol:hugs:

[Marla S]

As a crossdresser your opinon is moot. Lets ask the man on the street.
It is a Fetish and in some cases a multi-fetish too.

To thine own self be true. All the liars in the world still doesn't make it true.

Erinn, please define Fetish, not to talk at cross-purposes.

I think it is a bit early to judge the opinion of others "moot" or lie. (You seem to know quite a lot, being able to make these kind of general judgements)

Usual definitions range from sexual pleasure exclusively by inanimate objects to a red Ferrari or a favorite color.

[JacquiUKTV]

A hypothetical idea: as a child, one feels attracted to the notion of being a girl rather than a boy and seeks to realise that ambition by dressing; the feeling that being a girl is somehow preferable...it has some value attached which one is unable to articulate other than by copying...a whole other story, this. Later on when puberty occurs, one might find it difficult to form "natural" relationships with females; perhaps due to shyness; a whole spectrum of reasons are possible; perhaps because, being aware of the "girly" feelings inside, you feel not quite "properly" male, and the conditioning of society surely plays a big part in this. Is it inconceivable that you might fall back on the "dressing" mechanism as a means of providing for yourself the "female" identity that you so badly want in your life? This borders on auto-eroticism and the associated narcissism. An "object of desire" cannot be obtained so one attempts to rectify the deficiency by "becoming" that object. This might go some way to explaining fetishism...if your preference is for girls with say, blonde hair, red hair, whatever, or in a certain style of dress ; perhaps that becomes a dominant image that one tries to recreate by making of oneself an "avatar" of that image. And then as time goes by, and the inelegant cravings of adolescence subside (thank God) maybe this created habit of dressing remains, driven by the memory of past glories? A practice that has made itself indelible by repetition.

Just a thought.....:love: J.

[Khriss]

I am Who ..or What ...I'm expressing ..as "MySelf" eh ??

beyond general conscensus ..or bias at times eh??
such things are far from being "accepted" too often..
too bad ,,so sad,, eh ? "K"
and ..WOW ..Jacqui...I get someofthatbutseemssocomplex eh ? xx"K"

[Sheri 4242]

You seem to know quite a lot, being able to make these kind of general judgements

Great bit of sarcasm, Marla, but I bet it went over Erinn's head!!!


Erinn, I don't think anyone is rationalizing anything. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. For some they feel it is a fetish, while for others they don't. I for one don't see the average crossdresser as having a fetish. If I like to wear mens boxers because I find them more comfortable, does that mean I have a fetish? I don't think so. Just my :2c:. :hugs: CG GG


As a crossdresser your opinon is moot. Lets ask the man on the street. It is a Fetish and in some cases a multi-fetish too. To thine own self be true. All the liars in the world still doesn't make it true.

Erinn,

In the time I've been on this forum I've seen people disagree. No big deal -- it happens!!! I've disagreed with others and others have disagreed with me, but there was civility!!! It is the ability to agree to disagree without being disagreeable!!! To discuss, debate, and even disagree with intellect and not dismissiveness, or rudeness, or name calling!!! That is a mark of intelligence!!! Country Girl GG has made valuable contributions to this forum, and IMHO you were rude towards her -- rude and insolent without provocation or justification!!! But that there were more like her on here!!!

You were way out of line in your comeback towards her!!!

[Julogden]

Erinn,

In the time I've been on this forum I've seen people disagree. No big deal -- it happens!!! I've disagreed with others and others have disagreed with me, but there was civility!!! It is the ability to agree to disagree without being disagreeable!!! To discuss, debate, and even disagree with intellect and not dismissiveness, or rudeness, or name calling!!! That is a mark of intelligence!!! Country Girl GG has made valuable contributions to this forum, and IMHO you were rude towards her -- rude and insolent without provocation or justification!!! But that there were more like her on here!!!

You were way out of line in your comeback towards her!!!
Sheri, well said.

Erinn, if it's a fetish for you, fine, no problem, but in my opinion, you're making a mistake in thinking that your reality is everyone else's, you were quite rude to Country Girl GG in expressing your opinion.

Relax dear, you're among friends here, no need for a chip on your shoulder.

Carol:hugs:

[Emily Ann Brown]

Geesh ! This is starting to sound like my time with the shrink who didn't believe in gender disorders so never could begin to understand my head. Chill people.

We are ALL different girls (and GGs).....after spending time with more than a dozen sisters of different persuasions I am more sure of that than ever. My reason for dressing is different from everyone else's in at least some small and insignificant (but totally significant) area. Generalities , good ones, are few in this community.

If we aren't physically or mentally hurting anyone else (including our wives and girlfriends), then what the heck fetish or not?


Emily Ann

[curiosity_aroused]

Kind of trying to replicate the things that you would never dream of doing- except that you do dream of them and desire to do them. Dressing up lowers the internal resistance to these fantasies.

Curia

[admirerplus GG]

I really appreciate all of the very interesting and thought-provoking responses to this thread. I can see from this lively discussion that it is not accurate or appropriate to over-simplify. I look forward to seeing more lively discussion on this subject, as well as on other subjects. Thanks Girls!

[RobertaFermina]

I don't dress and "dwell".
I get dressed and I go out.
I go to clubs, church, 12-step meetings, co-gender healing circles, shopping and trekking through the Bay Area.

I am more like 2 evenings and most of my weekends EnFemme.

Fetish...nope! Don't experience arousal due to dressing. Still experience it when I see a woman.

I get a "Heart-Rush" or is that "Crush"? when I see see my favorite DragQueen (she IS special to me), one particulare delightful Gay Bartender gives me a glow, and some CD's have led me to some 'surprising' feelings and desires.

All of those feelings are due to items beyond my clothing.

Personality....Roberta is definitely on the cutting edge of openhearted and courageous engagement with the world. Something Bob has always been able to do with conscious prompting. Roberta needs no ques to engage. Bob may learn in degrees what Roberta seems a natural master of.

So Personality....YES!

and Fetish...Probably not. I do LOVE Clothes, and Colors, and "Putting it All Together" with accessories, shoes.

I love how being CD puts women at ease and we have a fabulous sisterly and exciting time, even heart-to-heart ! What dancing with a woman Enfemme does for me ! (And her, mind you.....).

Hope my account is of some use.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[RobertaFermina]

Erinn, please define Fetish, not to talk at cross-purposes.

I think it is a bit early to judge the opinion of others "moot" or lie. (You seem to know quite a lot, being able to make these kind of general judgements)

Usual definitions range from sexual pleasure exclusively by inanimate objects to a red Ferrari or a favorite color.



Now maybe "Roberta" is Bob's ticket to that "Red Ferrari", actually or Red Mercedes 420 SEL Convertible, that he's always wanted. Maybe some Sugar Daddy can picture Roberta at her magnetic best with her hand on that stick, hair flying back, with red-lipstick framed, radiant, gnat straining smile as the miles fly dizzyingly by......as his hand involuntarily reaches for his wallet to make this dream come true.....yeah......then Bob kicks the girl to the ground and takes the wheel and peels off in echoing peals of maniacal and satanic laughter....yeah that's the fetish!



..........NOT!!!!


:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Sheri 4242]

Geesh ! This is starting to sound like my time with the shrink who didn't believe in gender disorders so never could begin to understand my head. Chill people.

We are ALL different girls (and GGs).....after spending time with more than a dozen sisters of different persuasions I am more sure of that than ever. My reason for dressing is different from everyone else's in at least some small and insignificant (but totally significant) area. Generalities , good ones, are few in this community. Emily Ann {Emphasis Added by Sheri}


Emily Ann,

I couldn't agree with you more!!! And, for once, I "slept on it" before I responded about Erinn's post!!! That said, the comments Erinn made towards Country Girl GG were rude, insolent, insensitive, dismissive, and bordering on, if not crossing into, being nasty!!! CG GG didn't deserve that -- not for what she had said earlier in this thread, and not for any other comments I've ever read of her's. Erinn jumped Country Girl GG -- and it wasn't ladylike or gentlemanly, whichever Erinn prefers!!! I've seen many of us disagree on this forum without becoming ugly!!! It was uncalled for, and if we don't stand up and say, "Hey, hold on, wait just a minute, this should be a place where we can discuss things and express ourselves and our own individal perspectives and experiences sans name calling," then we are asking for a deterioration in what is one of this forum's strongest attributes -- civility!!! To have "chilled" would have sent the wrong message to Country Girl GG, many of the other GG's, and many CDers!!! Maybe we don't all agree on everything -- who would expect us to do so -- but to treat an intelligent, fair-minded, active, nice, and empathetic contributor was just plain wrong and needed to be addressed -- more for Country Girl GG's sake than Erinn's!!!

[Rita B]

For the longest time I thought that what I had was a fetish. That was until I was in my forties ( I had already been crossdressing and out of the closet for a couple of years by then) when I me a pre-op TS and started attending meetings that a TS group held. It was then that I realized that what I had was a lot more than a fetish, so much so that I pursued going into transition. As it turned out, my physical health prevented me from going through transition and as I recall it was a very traumatic experience not to be able to be a woman as I wanted.:hugs:

[donnapink]

Fetish? For me as a teenager I was drawn to dressing and at that age everything was sexual and dressing was for me. However I did not need to
crossdress to be aroused since I was totally into girls and had girlfreinds.
Now I dresss because that is me and though my wife ( who knows ) does not want to participate I am at ease with myself. My time to crossdress is limited
but I manage and this year did venture out ,quite satisfying.

[DonnaT]

I was told that CDing is simply a "fetish". The Oxford dictionary describes this word as, "...abnormal stimulus, or object, of sexual desire...". I find it difficult to believe that CDing is only about expressing a fetish.

Ladies/gents, let's not forget the original post linking fetish and sex. So based on that definition, for many it is a fetish for many it is not.

Many of us started dressing long before we had any sexual desires or arousal, or even knew what sex was.

When we learned of sexual arousal, the CDing might have played an integral part in achieving some self gratification. But that doesn't necessarily make it a fetish.

Others started CDing after becoming aware of their sexual self. The incorporation of CDing, either by experimentation, reading, etc., may have enhanced the experienced. But that doesn't necessarily make it a fetish.

Accordingly, definitions became skewed because, most likely, no one even considered the kids who CDed and knew nothing about sex.

And then there were many stories of trannys on the prowl, which apparently led to some "know it alls" to conclude that being a tranny meant that one CDed for sexual reasons, and even homosexual reasons.

Hell, all was fine with my wife knowing, until she read a definition of transvestite in a dictionary back in 1975, which linked it to homosexuality.

So, you see, CDing was linked with sex because the "know it alls" were basically concerned with CDers who were sexually active. And they were concerned with the kinky side of sex, and considered CDing to be kinky. Thus it came to be considered a fetish.

To me, it shouldn't be considered a fetish unless the act of CDing is the only way someone can get there sexual release.

For many of us, however, it goes much deeper than sex. And many of us consider it to be something we were born with, known as being transgendered. There is an urge for some of us that comes from within (our soul?) that is unexplainable. So, it is quite complex.

[JacquiUKTV]

[QUOTE=and ..WOW ..Jacqui...I get someofthatbutseemssocomplex eh ? xx"K"[/QUOTE]

And I'm such a simple soul really! :devil:

I think I was trying to form an association with "role-playing"; to take an example, p'haps not so prevalent in today's world (and pls remember, I ain't been a kid for a long time.....), boys dressing in "cowboy" suits, playing with plastic Colt 45s to emulate their movie-heroes, that kind of stuff. Taking a deep breath....
Here in the UK, we have country-music followers who attend C'n'W music clubs X nights a week in full regalia (ladies too); considering the age-group of the majority of these guys their childhood would have been during the late 40s and 50s, a time when the UK was still trying to pull itself back together after WW2 and was a pretty miserable place; I could relate stuff from my own upbringing that many Americans might find hard to believe. The cinema and (B/W) television offered a welcome escape from the drudgery of "real" life.
Not too surprising perhaps that romantic, heroic figures depicted on-screen might become "role-models"? I realise this could all sound a bit naive but sometimes, I think it may actually be just that simple. Hence my expression "dominant image".... a better-than-real-life identity. There can of course be other sources than the silver screen! Like the peer-group girls in the school-yard....
Anyhow, the guys in the white coats have just arrived and I better not upset them.......XXXXs J.
Still confused? Wait for the next one....:D

[charlie-50]

Im not sure there is any right answer. on one hand i tend to think its biological. you know we were predispositioned to be femail but got a penis instead or at avery young age we was exposed to femail things and it stuck some how. it dont realy matter to me anymore i just injoy doing it lol...CP...:hugs:

[Rachel Morley]

As a crossdresser your opinon is moot. Lets ask the man on the street.
It is a Fetish and in some cases a multi-fetish too.

To thine own self be true. All the liars in the world still doesn't make it true.
Erin, you need to calm down. First of all Country girl GG is just that, a GG she's not even a crossdresser. And what an offensive attitude by saying "All the liars in the world still doesn't make it true." you just pretty much said that because you disagree everyone else's opinion, they must all be a liars. Not exactly friendly don't you think :thumbsdn:

[psion128]

For me its sorta both in a way. Sometimes I lean towards one side then the other. I pretty much flip flop between the 2. When I'm with my SO, I get into it with her while I'm dressed(during intimate encounters). And at the same time, I like to dress around the house just to relax.

[battybattybats]

I think the negative connotations of the term fetish are a hangover from archaic attitudes towards sexuality where being aroused by anything beyond a certain tiny range of things in very restrictive circumstances were seen as some sort of bizarre maladaption. Certainly as long as any activity involves only consenting sane adult humans I am yet to hear an argument against that didn't smack of some form of bigotry or profound bias.

Yet the day I spent hours blissfully dressed without the faintest hint of sexual arousal was the day I realised that my dressing wasn't essentially sexual and therfore could not be a fetish.

I suspect that as sexuality is one of the most primal, powerful, focul and unconcious parts of human experience that it would make a great deal of sense that repressed or supressed femininity would first appear, would bubble up and boil over, through the release valve of sexuality. That would explain why many of us would discover our femininity first through our sexuality only later, as that forced us to gradually accept and explore this side of ourselves, to discover that it is more profound and pervasive than merely a potent sexual urge.

I do not deny that for some it would/could be purely sexual but for many it clearly is not. Many also may feel that it is only sexual currently as they may not have explored it fully, may not have let down the walls built up inside around it that quarentine it from much of the rest of daily life to discover how much it may be present in other aspects of their consciousness.

[Denielleinheels]

If it was a fetish for me I would spend a lot less in clothes and what-not. It is very much a part of who I am. I am as female as I am male and sometimes more in most cases.

[Ras]

I view it more of a lifestyle. Some may view it as a fetish. I look it at something I enjoy doing. A few ladies think it is prety cool, while others are not comfortable with it

[Carin's Wife GG]

when it is part and parcel of someones personality. Not another side, just an important piece of who a person really is.


Louise.

[Andi]

This is what Webster says...

Main Entry: fe·tish
Variant(s): also fe·tich /'fe-tish also 'fE-/
Function: noun
Etymology: French & Portuguese; French fétiche, from Portuguese feitiço, from feitiço artificial, false, from Latin facticius factitious
1 a : an object (as a small stone carving of an animal) believed to have magical power to protect or aid its owner; broadly : a material object regarded with superstitious or extravagant trust or reverence b : an object of irrational reverence or obsessive devotion : PREPOSSESSION c : an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression
2 : a rite or cult of fetish worshipers
3 : FIXATION
================================================== =====
So who's right and who's rude??? I don't know. I do know that I, like others, just like to wear womens clothes. Sometimes I'm irrational, sometimes I'm obsessive but all the time I'm happy when dressed. Go figure!! :D

[RobertaFermina]

So.....men who believe they must have a penis to penetrate thier partner to "be a man" are fetishists!

I don't need to wear women's clothes to perform or enjoy any sexual act.

I may need such clothes to predictably awaken my feminine persona...though I know at times Roberta is present in Drab.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[JacquiUKTV]

This is what Webster says...

Main Entry: fe·tish
Variant(s): also fe·tich /'fe-tish also 'fE-/
Function: noun
Etymology: French & Portuguese; French fétiche, from Portuguese feitiço, from feitiço artificial, false, from Latin facticius factitious
1 a : an object (as a small stone carving of an animal) believed to have magical power to protect or aid its owner; broadly : a material object regarded with superstitious or extravagant trust or reverence b : an object of irrational reverence or obsessive devotion : PREPOSSESSION c : an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression
2 : a rite or cult of fetish worshipers
3 : FIXATION
================================================== =====
So who's right and who's rude??? I don't know. I do know that I, like others, just like to wear womens clothes. Sometimes I'm irrational, sometimes I'm obsessive but all the time I'm happy when dressed. Go figure!! :D

Having looked back....this post I like best of all...TY Andi. For me, CDing was at times a "fetish"....still is p'haps, in some sort of balance. But all said and done: who cares? Is this a tea-cup surrounding a storm my dears? :love: comme toujours, Jacqueline.

P.S. poor Erinn; a little polish was all that was required?

[Jess84]

Fetish. I dont think i act very girly. But then again, i never have been known as the "macho man" either...

[Khriss]

my dreams... !!

[renee99]

I think there are TG crossdressers who are expressing a feminine side, and fetishistic crossdressers who are doing nothing of the sort. And then there are TG crossdressers that appear to others to be fetishistic crossdressers because of what they happen to be wearing. And then there are the mainstream people that project fetishism onto all crossdressing, even the most conservatively and appropriately dressed CD. I think it is really difficult to draw lines and put everyone into boxes. Maybe the best thing to do would be to stop viewing harmless fetishes as something to be hidden and ashamed of.

[Mitch23]

complicated world isn't it - I sort of lost the point of this thread sometime ago :-> Love the pic though Khriss - is it you? or Debbie Harry? Or someone else?

Mitch

[angelfire]

I realize to a number of the girls here it is a lifestyle, and is part of who they are and their personality. But to me, it is nothing more than a fetish. The entire experience is sexual for me, and that is the only reason I do it.

[Sweet Jane]

Its strange, but I have never really got any sexual excitement out of dressing in womans clothing. I started wearing girls things waaayyy before puberty, and ever since the chance of being sexually aroused when dressed, would mirror the chance of being sexually aroused when I look like a guy. I don't dress for sexual thrills....I wonder why I do dress then?

[JessicaDC]

I think it's different for everyone. For me it's more of a sexual thing. But I know for a lot of people it's not. Being a cd has made me a better person though....

[LaFem]

Hello Khriss! If that's you in the picture you look great! You've even got those female curves down perfect! The shiny vinyl, the super high heels and of course your very feminine figure, are as hot as Hades! I envy you.

A very nice fetish photo. Thanks!