Crossdressing, Sexuality and Labels

[LaFem]

I posted this in another thread, but only one person actually replied. Perhaps this is because the post was in the wrong spot, or perhaps there is another reason. It seems like we are always talking about labels, and that is not really a bad thing. After all, we certainly seem to enjoy talking about them, and the discussion helps all of us understand ourselves and each other.

I have copied this from my post in the "Thinking out of the box" thread:

I have noticed that some members are totally comfortable with the term TG, after all when you dress, act, and want to be as feminine as possible, that seems to be inescapably a transgendered activity. I know everyone is different, and many do not like any labels at all, but I cannot, in the deepest part of myself, understand why so many here deny this. What else could dressing and acting like a woman possibly be? An explanation would be humbly accepted.

I also have noticed that the term crossdressing has pretty much replaced transvestisim as the only "really acceptable" word. It seems like crossdressing is OK because it has been redefined as something else- dressing and acting like a woman, and often feeling female, but without any sexual or erotic factor.

I have a question that I would, and I assume many others, would like answered. When you look in the mirror, all dressed in your finest female things, lace panties, garter belt, nylons, a bra, maybe a slip, wig, dress, heels, perfume, jewelry, and of course full makeup with that very sexy red lipstick, just what are you thinking about? Are you thinking about NASCAR? Going bowling? Deer hunting? I'm certainly not thinking about anything like that, I'm thinking about how much I want to be feminine, and be that woman in my mirror.

Perhaps this should have been another thread, but it seemed to be appropriate here. I would also like to say that this post is sincere; I really would like to know about others, I mean no disrespect to anyone. By knowing how others address this, we can all know ourselves a little better.

[Toyah]

Crossdressing, crossing the way I dress fits for me, Transvestite, across or over vestire dressing is really the same thing. Usually the prude element say thet Transvestite is sexual dressing which being prudes they hate and crossdressing is non sexual which is kinda stupid and narrow minded because essentually they are the same word.
As for TG trans gender by definition changing gender hmmmm thats not what I do I wear the clothes because I like them I started with makeup because someone challenged me to and found that it fitted in. I dont try to act feminine as anyone who watches me drinking beer from the bottle will tell you ( Tamara said it was most un feminine that does not bother me )
I am sure that womens clothing by its design makes you react and move diferently, try turning fast in heels or sitting like a guy in a skirt it does not work.
Its fun to dress thats the word I like, I dont like the CD movement complaing about not being accepted because its not true as is demonstrated by those that go out dressed regularly. Do CDs get hurt or injured when dressed, sure but so do thousands of others, is it a hate crime yes but any murder is a hate crime. Should you expect to feel safe if you go out dressed, I guess as safe if you go out in drab, there are some places you should not go so keep yourselves safe if you do go out !!!!:hugs:

[cin]

If that question was for genetic girls too I'm thinking "DAMN I look hot!!!!"
Sorry I know that question wasn't for gg but I'm 22 haha.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

Nothing really matters except what you like and feel. I personally look in the mirror and see a "woman want to be" and I try my best to look as good as possible. I am not at all concerned about labels, call me whatever you want it really don't matter. I call myself a hetero crossdresser or just a crossdresser. I really do wish that it was acceptable culturally to wear whatever clothes you want and that the lines between gender identity were totally blurred but alas it's not so. When i am dressed in male mode I see the man that I am, but also the woman I want to be. Funny how it's not the same when I am en-femme.

[Teresa Amina]

Are you thinking about NASCAR? Going bowling? Deer hunting? I'm certainly not thinking about anything like that, I'm thinking about how much I want to be feminine, and be that woman in my mirror.

Oddly enough the only time I've thought of bowling recently was when I went to "Tranny Bowling" in Toledo :D But NASCAR? Deer Hunting? Not even as a guy, not my scene. But then I'm not really a guy, just a woman with a rather severe birth defect :D

[nephthyr]

I hate labels. Call me what you like, I don't really care.
As for looking in the mirror, I agree with Cin, I pretty much think "I look hot in this!"

[Chantelle CD]

I know everyone is different, and many do not like any labels at all, but I cannot, in the deepest part of myself, understand why so many here deny this. What else could dressing and acting like a woman possibly be? An explanation would be humbly accepted.


I also do not like labels, i find them a very weak attempt at trying to explain something, a label can only be generalized. From all of what i have read so far here, my views are very different from a lot of peoples here, so when i explain, it from my point of view, not everyone else's, kk. To me the difference from cross dressing and TG/TS is how far you want to take these feelings. CD wants to feel them all, but still likes being a man, changes back and is back in guy mode and is very comfortable that way. I guess TG is the same, but likes the sexual aspect to it as well, and TS is someone that just wants to be a female in all its aspects period. I dont know what the heck to call myself LoL I love masculinity, being male, but like to dress up and feel femininity. I dont relate femininity as simply a gender thing, its a feeling i can experience and can express it at will. The clothing just helps me to heighten it, and feel it for longer periods of time. I cant say i transform, rather that i simply change focus. Being human allows us all the ability to be able to feel and express all feelings and emotions that there are! All of them, regardless of gender!! If one is unhappy as a male, and choses to submerge them self in femininity only, they will find themselves still unhappy, balance is important, they still need to balance there masculinity as a GG would.


I have a question that I would, and I assume many others, would like answered. When you look in the mirror, all dressed in your finest female things, lace panties, garter belt, nylons, a bra, maybe a slip, wig, dress, heels, perfume, jewelry, and of course full makeup with that very sexy red lipstick, just what are you thinking about? Are you thinking about NASCAR? Going bowling? Deer hunting? I'm certainly not thinking about anything like that, I'm thinking about how much I want to be feminine, and be that woman in my mirror

Myself i dont get dressed up all the way, i have a go-tee rarely ware my wig, and never played with makeup all the way, for me i try to create the best possable female form, when i do that, it doesnt matter at all what clothing i have on, i feel feminine, what i look like in the mirror means nothing to me at all. Pretty clothing helps me feel more femme though, but its nothing compared to having the body of a GG to me, for feeling and expressing these things. What do i think about? everything i would as myself, i still have all my interests, painting, photography, gaming, every thing i love to do when i am focused in male energy's, i love to do when focused in female energy's. When i was a small boy, i played with my sisters and there dolls all the time, i also played with tonka trucks as well. Women like nascar, going bowling, and some would i imagine go dear hunting, though most females dont like taking a life, but they would if they had to to survive. When i dress i do the same things i do normally, except the pinkies are raised and I'm more graceful, and feel beautiful, rather than manly. Come to think of it now,, i dont think there is very much if anything that one can do that is really gender specific, other than expression things eg: makeup, clothing, maybe just a bit of collecting, but activity's Wise i cant really thing off hand right now, something that can only be of interest to only one gender. I played dolls as a boy, and never thought about being or feeling like a girl at that time, i just played with my sisters.

[Lilith Moon]

Crossdresser is a good label because it describes what it is that we all do, or want to do, without any attempt to explain, diagnose, stigmatize or analyze us. After all, as a group we have a zillion different reasons for wanting to wear clothing associated with the other gender.

Transgendered, on the other hand, implies that the source of our need to crossdress is a gender issue. I think that is true for many of us but, not all.

[Alice B]

I am OK with the term "Cross Dresser" as I think that is a term that is more accepted by spouses and SO's and easier for myself to explain why I do this. It tends to have less of a negative feel and does not automaticaly place me in a group that might be conceived as offensive or threating to my wife. When I'm fully dressed, as you described, and I look at myself in the mirror I look for the woman in me and ways that I can be more appealing to anyone that might see me, but mostly for myself. At those times NASCAR is the farthest thing in my mind.:happy:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

labels are very tough i think we can agree....labels are just shorthand and many people are very happy never looking beyond the surface of things...

i had a thought to the original post that avoids labels....

the question was , what am i thinking when i look in the mirror and see myself "dressed"????

well here's what i'm thinking.....

i'm thinking "THIS IS IT" !!!

i'm thinking that the feeling i have right now as i touch up my lipstick and make sure i like my bag and my outfit and especially my shoes!!! (i'm not kidding)... especially if i'm going to get to out and do something...i'm thinking that this feeling is the feeling i am always searching for...i have also had that feeling when i held my children in my arms and when i graduated from college...there is definitely a sexual part to it but it is only a part of it..of course, it's a truly wonderful feeling and sometimes i compare my limited time out and about as michele with the rest of my "out and about" life....i've had more pleasure from going out dressed in very limited time versus not.....i just enjoy feeling the way i do when i dress that much!!

so am i tg? cd? tv? TS? how the heck should i know????!!!! LOL....i just am trying to accept how much i enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kendra Irene]

I do refer to myself as a cross-dresser for the generalization of my dressing. I feel that actually, I'm a CD most of the time (with the beard) and should consider myself TV when attempting to pass.

Kendra

[RebeccaLynne]

Seeing my reflection in the mirror en femme is a distinctly different reaction than that experienced when en homme.
The male appearance is unremarkable to me, even boring.
Yet the presentation of femininity is satisfying in the sense that I think " I'm cute!".
And that makes me smile.:happy:

[Kathleengurl]

as we become increasingly complex, our use of labels to classify groups lessens the load and eases the burden of communcating a large group of otherwise unique items/experiences/ etc.

guy wears a dress = cross dress. Many women wear dresses and like men. Does that mean guys that wear dressses like men? lazy math might say yes but the two aren't all that closely related. Plus so many other factors have a significant impact on sexual preferences.

labels and their meanings will come, shift and go.

1) I use labels as a communications tool not a vehicle for hate.
2) I find grater success comes when I find what lables others use/prefer and use them the same way (except of course in 1 above). If you use CD to define a guy in a dress regardless of sexual preference then I adapt my use of CD for that as well. Now, we can exchange ideas and make this place better.

So on to your question.. when I'm 'dressed' I do think of the same things I think of when not 'dressed' I just think of them in different ways --from a different perspective.

V/R -k-

[Fab Karen]

guy wears a dress = cross dressed. Many women wear dresses and like men. Does that mean guys that wear dresses like men?

V/R -k-
Also we can remember how it's become popular with some women to wear men's underwear. No-one suggests they're perverts, or gay.

[Kate Simmons]

When I'm all dolled up and looking in the mirror, the thought usually comes to mind about what I'm going to have for dinner tomorrow night. Nutty, I know. Wishful thinking maybe that some handsome guy will take me to dinner? I sometimes think the CD mystique is just as hard or maybe even harder to understand than the feminine mystique.:idontknow::battingeyelashes:

[BarbaraTalbot]

as expressed as speech when I am dressed or even just in my "Barbara place" in my head.

It is so easy as Barbara to see the harmful words and tones that are horrible relics of my own father. I have actually "gone off" on the kids, and felt remorse, and consciously gone back to them as Barbara to apologize (in drab of course, but a girl doesn't have to be in her finest to be polite. civil and genteel does she?)

In Barbara mode I find myself looking at GG's differently or at least consciously noticing that what I admire in them are the things I most want to emulate.

In the Mirror, (now more fully dressed than ever before, and feeling the acceptance of my SO) I now think mostly vain, teary little thoughts like, "I look really pretty" Barbara loves the mirror and the camera. My Homme side always hated both even though objectively I don't have any specific things that I would change about myself as a man.

In the mirror when in hiding, I think I mostly thought, those pantyhose ore that pair of panties or that bra looked just like that in the catalog, but I saw myself as pieces, squinting past the man parts. I felt and thought lot of shameful thoughts like what if anyone knew o saw me do this?...why do I do this?..does this mean I am gay? if so why don't gays notice me, and why don't I find male bodies interesting?

[Marcie Sexton]

Labels are for clothing, and even then they are quickly disappearing for an ink stamp....at any rate, "sticks & stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me", who cares, society will label you in one way or another for one reason or another...I can live with them all...

[TracyH]

I don't care about labels. Call me transgendered, transvestite, or crossdresser, it doesn't matter. Labels are for other people to categorize you, in order to put you in a box, because it cuts down on the unknowns.

What other people call me doesn't phaze me, however. It's not my own box Im being placed in. The labels just start to break down when people find out that I'm transgendered, but I don't want surgery, or that I'm a transvestite but I don't masturbate while wearing heels, or that I'm a crossdresser but I don't want to pass. Like I said, it's their box, not mine, and their box is an imaginary one.

I don't care if I'm called he, she, or it. Because I'm not a he, she, or it, I just am.

But if you really want to label me and do it accurately, with the most respect and the least presumtion, then the only thing you can call me is Tracy.

[Sarah.]

I also have noticed that the term crossdressing has pretty much replaced transvestisim as the only "really acceptable" word. It seems like crossdressing is OK because it has been redefined as something else- dressing and acting like a woman, and often feeling female, but without any sexual or erotic factor.


When I get dressed up, I try to look as pretty as possible, and it makes me feel sexy and a little bit vain. I don't think one can separate the sexual factor from any of this, but maybe different people are sexual about it to varying degrees.

[Valerie]

I do not like taking photographs of myself in my male incarnation. I avoid it. But when I have dressed up as Valerie, I can't have enough photographs. What does that mean? No idea. I just like my image in the mirror.

Valerie

[Toyah]

Crossdresser is a good label because it describes what it is that we all do, or want to do, without any attempt to explain, diagnose, stigmatize or analyze us. After all, as a group we have a zillion different reasons for wanting to wear clothing associated with the other gender.

Transgendered, on the other hand, implies that the source of our need to crossdress is a gender issue. I think that is true for many of us but, not all.

Nail head you got it hun :hugs:

[RobertaFermina]

There's how you see me, and call me, how I see me, and I call me, and what I do, and how I feel.

What I do and How I feel is what is true.

I like labels when I am close enough to someone to really know what the labels mean to them. Across a forum, or a newsprint headline, it is hard, and sometimes scary, to find out what people mean by the labels used.

So I have a love/Annoyance relationship with labels.

Also, whenever I label myself, and feel some attachment to the label, I limit my possibilities. For some who want to play it safe, this is ok. Let the label be your anchor. When authenticity is my anchor (whatever that means! :heehee:) I want to go forth and do and be and feel. I want freedom from labels.

I just made a date with a guy I met, what does that make me? Excited, uncertain, afraid, surprised, courageous. I prefer these essential labels to synthetic ones like - transbian, bi-curious, ****, gay, nyrmal.....

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Rachel Morley]

When you look in the mirror, all dressed in your finest female things, lace panties, garter belt, nylons, a bra, maybe a slip, wig, dress, heels, perfume, jewelry, and of course full makeup with that very sexy red lipstick, just what are you thinking about? Are you thinking about NASCAR? Going bowling? Deer hunting? I'm certainly not thinking about anything like that, I'm thinking about how much I want to be feminine
I never think about any of those things even in male mode, but I take your point. I think about how wonderful it feels to be different and how much I'm enjoying my "gender vacation". I love the feelings and enjoy the image of myself being the girl I would like to be if I could start over again and if my wife were to suddenly become a lipstick lesbian who loves me.

However, in reality, none of this is going to happen so I actually have the next best thing which is to be as feminine and as much of a woman I can be, whilst being married to an accepting and participating wife who enjoys being part of the fun and seeing her husband "playing at being a girl". Yes, I know how that sounds, but if you know my situation, you'll know my wife and you'll know it's true. I'm truly blessed :happy:

Oh... and I'm happy with the term crossdresser or transgendered to describe me. I hate this bi gendered world that we live in.

[LaFem]

Well I'm sure learning a lot, there seems to be honesty in these posts, but I don't think anyone has really addressed the first question I asked, which I will copy below:

"I have noticed that some members are totally comfortable with the term TG, after all when you dress, act, and want to be as feminine as possible, that seems to be inescapably a transgendered activity. I know everyone is different, and many do not like any labels at all, but I cannot, in the deepest part of myself, understand why so many here deny this. What else could dressing and acting like a woman possibly be? An explanation would be humbly accepted."

Many of us seem to feel that TG means that at some level, you want to change your sex. That certainly is true, how can you argue with that? I'm starting to think that members of this forum who are married, or in a relationship with a female SO, have a pretty big stake in staying away from the term TG. If you can convince her that crossdressing is just a "hobby" or a "non-sexual pastime", or just a way of "loving you even more," then you probably have a better chance of keeping your relationship.

Perhaps denying anything dealing with TG is a defense mechanism for preserving the relationship. I have had direct experience with these issues, and in my case, my wife was sort of OK with crossdressing, but just the THOUGHT of anything TG was way too much for her to deal with; end of relationship, divorce.

So, I do understand this from a very personal series of life events. Does it ring true for anyone else?

[Marla S]

Well I'm sure learning a lot, there seems to be honesty in these posts, but I don't think anyone has really addressed the first question I asked, which I will copy below:

"I have noticed that some members are totally comfortable with the term TG, after all when you dress, act, and want to be as feminine as possible, that seems to be inescapably a transgendered activity. I know everyone is different, and many do not like any labels at all, but I cannot, in the deepest part of myself, understand why so many here deny this. What else could dressing and acting like a woman possibly be? An explanation would be humbly accepted."

Many of us seem to feel that TG means that at some level, you want to change your sex. That certainly is true, how can you argue with that? I'm starting to think that members of this forum who are married, or in a relationship with a female SO, have a pretty big stake in staying away from the term TG. If you can convince her that crossdressing is just a "hobby" or a "non-sexual pastime", or just a way of "loving you even more," then you probably have a better chance of keeping your relationship.

Perhaps denying anything dealing with TG is a defense mechanism for preserving the relationship. I have had direct experience with these issues, and in my case, my wife was sort of OK with crossdressing, but just the THOUGHT of anything TG was way too much for her to deal with; end of relationship, divorce.

So, I do understand this from a very personal series of life events. Does it ring true for anyone else?

Problem with these kind of questions is that everybody has a different, personal definition of TG and other labels. Talking at cross-purposes and becoming frustrated is almost inescapable then (questions and answers become a bit pointless).

We would have to agree on a defintion first to discuss these kind of questions or we should omit labels and write in whole phrases.

As I understand your question (according to my definitions) you are rather talking about TS than TG.

Taking that into account there might be some truth in it, because the option of transitioning is certainly a big concern for SOs and a different quality than "just" CDing.

[Jenna Lynne]

Many of us seem to feel that TG means that at some level, you want to change your sex. That certainly is true, how can you argue with that? I'm starting to think that members of this forum who are married, or in a relationship with a female SO, have a pretty big stake in staying away from the term TG. If you can convince her that crossdressing is just a "hobby" or a "non-sexual pastime", or just a way of "loving you even more," then you probably have a better chance of keeping your relationship.

Perhaps denying anything dealing with TG is a defense mechanism for preserving the relationship.
Labels can be empowering, but they can also be damaging.

If I choose to use a label on myself, it enables me to identify with others who I feel are like me. That's empowering.

The slippery spot is that someone else's understanding of what is meant by that label may be very different from mine. They may hear the label and just assume a lot of things about me that aren't true. This can be terribly damaging. They may start responding to their own subconscious stereotype, not to me as an individual.

So I can really understand if someone doesn't want to be labelled TG, or gay, or whatever. I think it's really, really okay for each of us to use, or not use, whatever labels we like.

***Jenna***

[LaFem]

I put my last post to this thread on the morning of July 7. It is now 6 PM on July 9.

I'm going to assume that the actual question in my last post on this thread will not be addressed. That's just fine. Not getting an answer is the answer.

I have been asking honest but sticky questions, and I have received a few honest replies, but mostly I have learned that asking sticky questions is really not what many of the forum members want. Take a look at my other posts and threads and you will see what I mean.

It's way easier to talk about pantyhose.

[Glenda58]

La fem why do you care want other people on the forum do or think. For one we all lie about who we are to the public. Most of us have been doing this for 50 or more years. This the first time we have had a place to go and talk with others like yourselves. Before the INTERNET we we were alone with no place to go or any body to talk to. Yes there are some who crossdress and have families and that all they want. There are some who want to go all the way to SRS. And there are all those in between. And we are not gay but in the trans gender community.

[Rikkicn]

8 years ago when I told me ex that i liked wearing lingerie she asked me if I wanted to be a woman and I quickly said no. but I was very curious about the idea and just didn't beleive that it would ever be possible for me.

I told her it was something I do and not something I was and she sighed a huge relief. I didn't even know what TG was at the time.

It took me a long time and lots of reading to understand thatm for me, it was about gender as well as the clothing and then I decided I was TG.

3 years ago I started living full time and thought of my self as a full time cross dresser becasue transsexual wasa medical term with it roots in gender dysphoria and the Benjamin standards of care. That as well as the stories to TS women didn't match mine.

Most people would say I'm a TS and if that's what they want to call me it's OK with me. I don't really feel there is word that describes me. The closest concept would be two spirit. For me, I don't believe it's a medical condition but a spiritual one. Some might say it's a calling or karma or destiny.

That's me $.02

[Lindsay]

I think "crossdresser" describes me and TG describes us as a group - so the former's personal, the latter's political and covers the whole spectrum from occasional, erotic-focused crossdressing to transsexualism. It's not about gender for me, but I think TG is valuable as a flag we can rally around - because wherever you are on the TG spectrum, you have things in common with people at either end of that spectrum.

Personally I think "transvestite" has become almost entirely negative. There's something faintly grubby about the term, I think, probably because for so long it's been a term of abuse.

[Sheri 4242]

I put my last post to this thread on the morning of July 7. It is now 6 PM on July 9.

I'm going to assume that the actual question in my last post on this thread will not be addressed. That's just fine. Not getting an answer is the answer.

I have been asking honest but sticky questions, and I have received a few honest replies, but mostly I have learned that asking sticky questions is really not what many of the forum members want. Take a look at my other posts and threads and you will see what I mean.

It's way easier to talk about pantyhose.

First, how many answers do you want to feel like you've received an adequate response???

I have looked at your other threads, and I do not see what you mean!!! What I see is that you seem to equate not getting the answer or response you want as the same thing as, "golly, gee," nobody answered me. Maybe you should accept that variety of thought vis-a-vis individual expression, as well as that which is expressed through differing thought and opinions, IS clearly responsive to your thread's topic and inquiry. Yet, you seem to think that anything less than something that fits into your unyielding, preconceived ideas is no answer!!!

There have been so many deep questions discussed on here in the time I have been posting, that I wouldn't dare presume to suggest that the forum members shy away from delving into weighty questions, as well as lighter topics!!! Your questions are not "sticky" in comparisson to many that we have delved into in great detail. Problem is, many of us accept diversity of thought.

We don't start with the answer or response we want, then build a question around it, then, if we don't get exactly what we want, proclaim, "gee, nobody answered me in 'x' amount of time, or in such-and-such a way, so that is my answer, therefore I'm going to be dismissive and insolently suggest something like, 'okay, let's talk pantyhose.'"

Let's talk about labels versus definitions. Many on here adamantly don't like "labels" and don't want to be labeled. Then it is brought up that we need a fairly consistent definition of terms to be able to discuss something intelligently.

As Marla said:

Problem with these kind of questions is that everybody has a different, personal definition of TG and other labels. Talking at cross-purposes and becoming frustrated is almost inescapable then (questions and answers become a bit pointless) . . . We . . . have to agree on a defintion first to discuss these kind of questions or we should omit labels and write in whole phrases.

That you think you haven't received proper, adequate, or enough responses actually lies within your statement, "I have received a few honest replies . . ." How does this square with your statement that:

Well I'm sure learning a lot, there seems to be honesty in these posts . . . ???

When you ask:

What else could dressing and acting like a woman possibly be? An explanation would be humbly accepted. You are forming a question around an answer that fits what you want to hear!!! After all, we have delved into, and fully discussed on here the "second self" concept of male heterosexual crossdressing a number of times. It is well-documented in psychology and medicine -- and sustained by what many on here say, feel, and believe. Is that you? Only you know the answer to that, but you don't need everybody in the same corner to be validated!!!

[LaFem]

I'm going to answer the question myself, honestly, and not roam all over the place about everyone's own, personal definitions about words. If we all have "personal definitions", I want one too!

I've got a personal definition to replace crossdresser, and of course that terrible word, transvestite. I'm just going to use the phrase "Men who dress up like women and act like women". It sure seems pretty honest and straightforward.

So, my answer is: "Men who dress up like women and act like women are not behaving like men, in a gender sense". I don't think this could offend or antagonize anyone, but you never know.

Wow, using colors is fun! I didn't know it was so easy!

[sandra-leigh]

I put my last post to this thread on the morning of July 7. It is now 6 PM on July 9.

I'm going to assume that the actual question in my last post on this thread will not be addressed. That's just fine. Not getting an answer is the answer.


Sometimes we're just busy. My Real Life has had me too busy to expend concentrated attention on the forum lately.

[Rachell]

When I am dressed I feel that fem side of me. Sometimes I feel that i need to feel this side just to acomplish a task. I love to look at myself and never think about anything except fem things. I can really think clearly when dressed in sexy clothes. Being a CDer is a real pick me up almost like a mind altering drug.

[trannie T]

In attempt to answer the original question:

I do not worry too much about terms for our behavior. I prefer the term "crossdresser" as it is easily understood and descriptive. "Transvestite" seems somewhat awkward. "Transgender" is a very broad term which includes many activities not related to dressing up.

[Oddlee]

It has been interesting to read the different viewpoints expressed in this thread. For my part, I enjoy women, have since my childhood. I like to have the feminine element in my life. Independent of my own thinking, the one gg (and only person outside this forum with whom I've discussed this need) to whom I've outed myself said, "Lee, you just love women so much, this is your way to have a woman around." I found this insightful, in that I had thought this myself for some time. I do tend to dress more when there is not a significant other in my life, an dhave had little opportunity to share this with a woman with whom I wanted to spend my life (and was accepting of the CD).

So I'm not sure where it would go with CD'ing given full approval and support - maybe it would end, maybe it would enhance a relationship: I've seen both results.

All that said, I am male, and have no desire to switch (although the magic pill that granted a 24-hour exchange would be swallowed immediately). My gg friend who knows appreciates both sides, leading me to believe my basic personality doesn't change much with the clothing... I have noticed that I feel more free to be myself in her presence than I do most other times, however, no matter how I'm dressed. And there any number of improved opportunities for finding humor in life.

Lee

[Mistybtm]

Labels are for clothing, and even then they are quickly disappearing for an ink stamp....at any rate, "sticks & stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me", who cares, society will label you in one way or another for one reason or another...I can live with them all...

I agree totaly be who you want to be, if you are happy then be happy.
don't worrie about what others think it is your life not theres.
:2c:
Mistybtm

[Tree GG]

Aren't "male" & "female" just labels for each half of the biological team for procreation? Yes, I'm aware it also has the industrial use of describing threads - which also is descriptive of their "mating" purpose. Isn't any other meaning of the label a socially made conscript that will change depending on which society you're standing in?

So, by insisting you want to be/feel/appear "not male", are you not conforming to the label of "female"? In that case, the label is very useful for declaring what you are not (or don't want to be). The meaning is clear and the label useful communication - message sent & received.

As Marla S stated, there are so many individual inferrence that go along with any short text label that some aspects of the label may not apply to someone who 75% fits the other aspects, but if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's generally something in the water fowl group. Is that offensive to the duck? Only if it's pissed off because it isn't a swan (which is still a water fowl). :D

I don't know, the label "Artist Formerly Known as Prince" didn't work out so well for him. Still labels him as an artist. :heehee:

[Lovely Rita]

La fem why do you care want other people on the forum do or think. For one we all lie about who we are to the public. Most of us have been doing this for 50 or more years. This the first time we have had a place to go and talk with others like yourselves. Before the INTERNET we we were alone with no place to go or any body to talk to. Yes there are some who crossdress and have families and that all they want. There are some who want to go all the way to SRS. And there are all those in between. And we are not gay but in the trans gender community.

I have to agree with Glenda on this one.
After reading the posts I have to say that Glenda's point of view is the way I tend to see things here as well.
:D

[LaFem]

Labels are scary. They make us define ourselves. I don't care what anyone wants to label themselves. I know who I am, and I can pretty much see who is honest and who is a poser, a phony, or outright lying to themselves and their wives. Come on, we dress up and act like women. How much crap can we feed ourselves?

This forum IS about commenting on what other people do or think, unless you just want to agree with everything put in front of you. I sure don't.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Labels ARE necessary, even if they are your own. You cannot THINK about anything unless it has a name--the brain is wired to work with WORDS. The images come only at the beginning and the end of the thinking process.

And your label also has to have a degree of specificity, so the concept will not be confused with something similar, but different---if not, the REAL confusion will begin.

Perhaps it is a blessing not to be concerned or curious about one's condition and proclivities and be accepting, but I dare say not a few of us at least have SOME degree of curiosity of how and why we are different from most other people. The only way to satisfy that curiosity is to give it a NAME----THEN we can think about it. If not, then don't even attempt to analyze. Only confusion will result---accept it and be done.

[serinalynn]

I went to a meeting a couple of years ago in which people like our selves on the forum were in attendance and we cane up with as many as 13 different labels that all or some could fit into. Most of us M2F here are basically because we just like the feel of womens clothing on our bodies. Others are here that go alittle further and actually go out dressed in some androgenous clothing. some here go the skirt and dress route with make up and hair and actually want to look beautiful.

what ever the reason this forum makes us all equal and accepted among our peers. This forum makes us look differently and see that there may be more women out there than you think. I always think that if I were 30 years younger and knowing what I know now I would go ahead and go the whole
women route with SRS and all. I personally feel that in my late 50's i am not going to change and do it now. That I believe is a decision I would have to make in my late teens or early 20's

another thread in this forum one of the administrators stated there were more than 17,000 members of which more than 8,500 were active and posted regularly. Maybe this mean there are possibilly 17,000 more women out there in this world? Or maybe 8,500 more? Is it girly for me to wear a womens top, capris, a bra and panty, and low heels out in front of my house, open the garage door and change oil in my SUV? I did it once though i didn't see any of my neighbors actually out looking at me, i can only wonder how many were peering out their windows gawking and making comments that I could not hear.

[ARI]

It seems to me that we all wear different labels at different times..transgender,straight, gay,hetero,bi...I wore them all. The important thing is when you look in the mirror. totally devoid of your disguises, you know who and what you are,,, and be happy.

[Sheri 4242]

LaFem said:

Labels are scary. They make us define ourselves. I don't care what anyone wants to label themselves.

Marina said:

Labels ARE necessary . . . You cannot THINK about anything unless it has a name--the brain is wired to work with WORDS. And your label also has to have a degree of specificity . . .

LaFem:

This is MHO and it is NOT my intention to insult anyone, or to act belligerent or argumentative. That said, IMHO, you continue to take your preconceived (and controversial) answers and formulate specious questions around them to try and get the responses you have selectively decided are the only correct answers. In the process, you berate the integrity of, insult, and question the veracity of those who come here to find understanding and compassion -- to share life histories and inner feelings -- discuss frustrations and problems in common -- to shed some tears and some laughs. You contradict well-intentioned people with arrogant impunity! Once again, maybe you should accept "variety of thought" vis-a-vis individual expression, as such IS clearly responsive to your thread's topic and inquiry. Yet, you seem to think that anything less than something that fits into your unyielding, preconceived ideas is no answer!!!

You also ignore anything academic and scholarly, from general medicine to psychology and psychiatry -- from genetics to physiology, etc. With you, it is like there has never been any research and critical analysis that has progressed over the years. Marina is, IMO, perhaps the most scholarly person posting -- she knows the biology -- she knows the mental health issues. She understands what the realities are despite the current DSM-IV-TR positions. She can articulate them better than I ever thought about doing!!!

So, in the main, you are receiving responses from a wide range of people with an equally wide range of backgrounds and credentials. Learn from them -- even if you only agree with one tenth of one percent of something a person says, it can be valuable to your overall understanding.

Your repetitive response:

. . . I can pretty much see who is honest and who is a poser, a phony, or outright lying to themselves and their wives. Come on, we dress up and act like women. How much crap can we feed ourselves?

Well, how does that square with that which is in the current literature? That which is well-documented in psychology and medicine? That which is the apparent true feelings repeatedly stated by many crossdressers for decades? Do you deny, for example, that many legitimately believe the concept of the "second self" as expressed (in this and many other forums) by male heterosexual crossdressers? Do you deny the possibilities of the hormone wash (bath) theory? The emerging research on feminine brain cluster sizes? (Or any other theories, research hypotheses, etc.?)


This forum IS about commenting on what other people do or think, unless you just want to agree with everything put in front of you. I sure don't.

I guess it is just easier to tell people they are "full of it" than to enter into a free, open, healthy, intelligent, and respectful exchange of ideas and support coupled with educationally-based dialogue and people's own experiences?!!! Many of us have been crossdressing for 50-plus years, and have studied it as thoroughly as possible, applying analytical thinking skills and reading tremendous amounts of the currect literature as it becomes available. Why not be a positive contributor??? It isn't that difficult to do the research and analysis -- it just takes an open mind and a willingness to learn. Questions should be sincere inquiries, and not formulas for dogmatically harping on one highly specious point of view!!!

By the way, IMO, this forum is about support, inquiry, edification, and self-discovery among people who share a commonality along a spectrum!!! If you really read the posts, you'll see that even when contributors are close in belief, there still is a degree of diversity unique to each individual!!! To call that being "full of it" is, IMHO, being "full of it" unto itself!!!!

[christina marie]

i dress and act girly as much as i possibly can and in my own little way push the limits of peoples preconceived notions of how i "should " conduct myself. i do this for my own happiness and entertainment only. i do not try to restrain myself by conforming to any label, nor any one particular set of behaviors. i live my life to please myself, fulfill the responsibilities i have chosen, and do what i personally feel necessary to consider myself a good person. i am who i am. if you do not like it, you were born with the amazing ability to swivel your head in the other direction just as easily as you looked in mine. i do not mean this in an offensive or argumentative manner, it is just the way i was taught to think.( thanks mom!) label me with whatever term suits you. chances are im not listening anyway!

[SatinDoll00]

Personally, I love labels...

...they tell me sizes, prices, care instructions, etc. :)

Seriously,

Through my life so far, I have been labeled many things...often by people that simply don't understand me, don't want to understand ME, and simply seek to categorize me as ‘X’, so that they do not have to take the time to figure me out.

A few years ago, I was a professional musician (not famous, just professional). The band I played in was a very diverse group. We all had different tastes, interests, and influences. When you got us all together, the music we created was simply, to us, our music. We could think of no reason to label it, to limit it, to a specific genre. But when people would ask, what type of band do you play in, it was easier to answer 'X', rather than explain fully.

I think crossdressing causes different feelings, different emotions, and different reactions in different people.

I know you think that your question was being dodged LaFem, but I think it is not an easy one for most of us to answer. For myself, my reasons for dressing have changed GREATLY over the years. In the beginning it was almost purely sexual. In fact, it was the first sexual urge, the first sexual experience, and the first real definition of my sexuality in my life. As I grew older, it made me question my gender role, my values, my ideas, etc. I still have not fully accepted everything myself, so I doubt there is anyway I can give you, or anyone else, a complete answer as to why I do it.

As for what I feel when dressed. I am happy. I am excited (some sexual excitement), but mostly simple excitement, like one gets when watching a great movie, or visiting an art gallery and seeing masterpieces you have never seen before (not that I am a masterpiece or work of art of any kind mind you). I feel a little nervous, a little ashamed (I won't deny it), and I feel a little bit sad, because I can not do this all the time. Mostly though, I feel complete. I feel as though I am the person I was meant to be.

What does that make me? A TG, a CD, a Transvestite, Gay, Bi, butch, lez? To me, it makes me Morgan.

Morgan

[LaFem]

How do all those psychiatrists and psychologists get their data? Is it by empirical testing? Experiments? Do they go out in the field and observe what men do when they dress and act like women? Do they observe the wives or SOs of men who dress and act like women? Do all those PHDs and MDs have an observable, repeatable process that they can define? Do they have a video camera and audio recorder in the bedroom? (or anywhere) Is there an undergrad with a clipboard counting how many times a man gets aroused when he is dressed up like a woman? Can anyone tell what someone is actually, really, thinking about? Is there any data at all that is based on well, um, actual data? I mean numbers, real data, hard data.

Of course not. Everything is based on interviews, and the interpretation of those interviews, the psychiatric evaluations of those interviews. Everyone who participates in these interviews is a volunteer. Whatever conclusions a mental health professional makes, it is based on what they hear and their evaluation of what they hear. There are specific techniques that can help a professional determine truth, specifically the degree of truth, but they are not totally dependable. There is no clinical testing, no repeatable experiment, in fact there is no experiment at all, just words.

It's sort of like this place. We only have language, words to evaluate the veracity of what is said, based on our skills and what we want to believe.

I have great faith in modern science, and I very much respect mental health professionals, but they can only be as accurate as what they hear. If we get fed a smooth portion of Taco Bell Spicy Fajitas, that's what comes out. Garbage in, garbage out.

I know there are some men who dress up and act like women, who get no sexual arousal out of it. There are a few reasons for this: getting old, living 24/7 as a woman, so the "specialness" is gone, or they are transsexual, and dressing up and acting like a female is normal and correct. I'm talking about adults. Children can dress up long before it becomes sexual. I did.

I've read quite a bit on the science involved, biology, hormones in the womb and all the rest of it.

Oh, by the way I also respect Marina Twelve, and I must thank you for quoting her. I agree entirely.

I also totally agree with you that this forum is about support, advice, community and commonality. It is also about diverse ideas, opinions, and experience, something you seem unable to accept.

As far as being full of it, ...........

[Sheri 4242]

I also totally agree with you that this forum is about support, advice, community and commonality. It is also about diverse ideas, opinions, and experience, something you seem unable to accept.

As far as being full of it, ...........

Excuse me, but if you will read what I said, I clearly encourage what YOU say I'm unable to accept -- so your comment is completely without merit and couldn't be farther from the truth! Further, my comments from "Day One" on this forum will bear out a consistent civility and respect for diverse thoughts and opinions, as well as encouragement of open, frank exchanges, even when two have to "agree to disagree without being disagreeable." Frankly, I wouldn't be on this site if it weren't for diversity and the free exchange of ideas, experiences, opinions, and edification! That said, don't think for a minute I can't or don't recognize a question written with a preconceived answer in mind!

(And, by the way, name-calling doesn't bother me b/c, IMO, it is a clear sign of lack of knowledge and intellect! To quote an old addage, "he who looses his temper, looses.")