Are males more accepting of FtM?

[cin]

I somehow have the idea that males would be more accepting of FtM than either males or females of MtF. Am I right or did that even make sense?

[Kieron Andrew]

in my experience GMs seem more accepting of me then GGs yes

[LisaRose]

I think so. I believe it's part of our culture to accept masculinity more so than feminitity.

[Cai]

The culture as a whole is more accepting of FTM "crossdressing". I'm not sure if I'd say any group is more accepting of FTM TSs, as there's not a whole lot of public support for TSs from any background.

[Lovely Rita]

Growing up we had quite a few FTMs in our neighborhood and they did not encounter anywhere near the bad treatment that MTFs did.

That is as far as I could tell, of course.

[jsoto81]

So far I've had good luck with both sides. the two women (who aren't my mom, whom freaked a little) are very supportive and understanding.

[Shelly Preston]

I think most GM's will be more accepting

Growing up guys were used to the girl or two who was more like them

Some had more of a macho image, so they kind of got used to the idea of FTM's sub consiously

[Dasein9]

I somehow have the idea that males would be more accepting of FtM than either males or females of MtF. Am I right or did that even make sense?

I haven't had too many problems. There's the occasional GM who seems to think I'm encroaching on his territory. Usually happens to me in gay bars.

[Ryan]

I thought so up until tonight at a private party. Some guy come up asking if I was a dyke etc. I told him no, then he was asking me if I am going for 'a change'! He told me he would rather bleed to death and in his own words 'have a period like a woman' than do what I am doing. He ridiculed me in front of family and friends, and I didn't even know him......

After a while of him keep asking me why I 'wanted' to do it and me trying to explain it was not a choice, he told me I was talking 'bollox' and that it was coz I didn't think I was attractive to other guys.....in the end I lost it and told him to f**k off......and I walked off.

He came back to apologise, but I wouldn't have it, and why should I? Why did he ridicule and have ago at me in front of a load of people, but then want to apologise to me all alone where no one could hear him.....? I was trapped in anyway by his mates, so I went into a room and listened to the shit he had to say and shook his hand.......falsly I will add! I have had this alot recently, especially with getting the sack from my new job the 2nd day just coz I was trans, and to be honest, I dont have time anymore for anyones excuses....!!!

[ZenFrost]

No. Men do not see me as 'one of them' as I would like them to see me. They treat me as a woman (in a very sexist way) and act as though I can never be as good as what they are, and to try is absolutely pathetic and sick.

However, this is just most men, there are some who don't give me grief about the way I dress. But generally, men don't treat me any better than women do (women often think I'm utterly horrible because I was born into the wrong body, that I'm betraying what I'm supposed to be) but that might just be because where I live is not accepting of anything LGBTIQQ.

[CaptLex]

It's my experience that, generally, men seem to be more okay with it than women, but that doesn't mean they'd want to date us, necessarily. There are a few men who seems to act like it's "cute" that a girl wants to be a boy. Oh please . . . :rolleyes:

[jsoto81]

now that I think of it, men my age (26 or so) tend to be more accepting because you could say they were raised with this knowledge that people are completely different, and living in liberal califoria, while men that are my dad's age (forties and fifties) aren't as accepting because, atleast here in the states, they had PSA's that said Gay men were pedophiles for god's-sake.

cause the two men that i've told so far have been very supportive.

[kathy333]

the way i see it as a m to f. i don't give any body grife for the way that they live or look. then again i dont go out to places ware people know me. guys that i know would not say any thing to you'r face, gut i have heard the statement after we seen one of you."did you see her" i always say " its what she or he (depending) wants to do. i know its not much in the way of tearing down the walls that are built.

remindes me of a movie. don't know the name, or who was in it i think it was james gadner. their was a woman who went to the genral store got her a pare of pants put them on went out side and the town went nuts. horses lost their riders. a horseless carage went though a fence.

wont it be nice when the world looks at the person and not the cloths.
well that is my:2c::2c:

[jsoto81]

remindes me of a movie. don't know the name, or who was in it i think it was james gadner. their was a woman who went to the genral store got her a pare of pants put them on went out side and the town went nuts. horses lost their riders. a horseless carage went though a fence.



I know what movie that is, it's called "support your local sheriff". I love that movie.

[crazy4cheezeits]

I completely present as a girl, but I'm fairly masculine, wear guys clothes, act like one of the guys, etc. I've found that straight males act like I'm one of the guys much more than straight girls. Most of my friends are pretty accepting and there are lot of LGBTs in my group, but in general my straight guy friends are fine with treating me like a guy.

[Abraxas]

IMO, guys are more accepting... I think the ratio of guys to girls I've told is about equal. Yet more of my female friends call me by female pronouns and more of my guy friends call me by male ones. They all use my male name, though. Maybe it's just that each sex wants more players on their team. *shrug*

[privateperks]

I think ace boy has it right - it's not acceptance so much as toleration. Guys will tolerate tomboys but cross the line into following them into the toilet and then there's a problem in my experience.

Whereas girls just - well, my female friends (except my best friend who is very supportive but a bit of an oddball herself) just really don't get it. I asked one of them flat out what exactly her problem was one day and she said she figured I was somehow saying men were better than women because I wanted to be one. So she really didn't ge it. Better or worse aint got a damn thing to do with it, but that seems to be how some people see it.

[LisaRose]

I think that maybe accepting is not quite the right word; I'd say more tolerant.

I agree.


You can be 'guy' to an extent as long as you are still a girl in guy's clothes and are cute. Once you cross the line too much, you're a joke and made fun of (in general, not everyone is this way of course.

I think this depends on how well you pass.

I think also that since others still see us as GMs and GGs just being queer, they are more likely to treat us in ways according to our gender. Guys are less likely to act physically violent towards someone that is GM than GG (in their eyes) With that said, butch women suffered many years of rape/violence until it finally became acceptable for them to wear guy's clothing. And since then, much effort has been put into feminising this style for women.

It's the same with skirts for men. They are being masculinized to make them acceptable for men to wear normally. Like utility kilts for example. (utilitkilts.com)

I think that even once skirts become an acceptable clothing for men to wear normally in society, there will still be a difference between "regular" guys in skirts and crossdressers/TS the same way that there is still a difference for us.


Ahhhhh, yes. I'm not so sure about masculine skirts and any other but try to imagine a guy in a skirt, any skirt, then add the forbidden 'bra'. That's when it gets 'silly' for almost everyone else. Guys don't have breast (well most guys) so 'why' wear a bra? Unless they are trying to pass and have done a very poor job of it. We are still in a dichotomy world and most want to see the black and white of this dichotomy.


You'll have it easier in some ways because you won't get in trouble just for wearing a skirt as long as it conforms to the appropriate kinds of skirts that are acceptable in society to wear for guys, right colours and styles although if you toe the line once in awhile you won't get flak either, but there will still be a line you're not supposed to cross and phases you're supposed to grow out of

Absolutely correct. I wear skirts quite often but don't ever try to pass. I stretch the limit with my atire and then bring it back to 'normal' just to settle the dust for a while then stretch it all over again. Isn't this what happens in every thing we do tho? Years ago many people thought the Earth was flat, or plate technonics was a farce. We've come 'a long way baby'.


BTW, Ace Boy, you're quite cute. You remind me of Elijah Wood.

[Missy]

Men call f2m tomboys growing up and are more relaxed with this then m2f crossdressers for the they think that the guy may be gay and so called real men do not hang out with fags this is only what I can come up with

[CaptLex]

Men call f2m tomboys growing up and are more relaxed with this then m2f crossdressers for the they think that the guy may be gay and so called real men do not hang out with fags this is only what I can come up with
Missy,

Didn't anyone ever tell you that that particular "F" word is offensive to homosexuals? BTW, FtMs are also assumed to be gay by lots of people.

[Tristan]

Missy,

I was called a fag by both girls and boys in my class for being a tomboy..... What does that do to your theory? Not conforming is hard no matter what. What is different from the majority often scares people.....

[ZenFrost]

Men call f2m tomboys growing up and are more relaxed with this then m2f crossdressers for the they think that the guy may be gay and so called real men do not hang out with fags this is only what I can come up with

While many GMs do call MtFs "fags" the also call many FtMs "butch lesbians." And it can be as insulting to call a FtM a butch lesbian as it is to call a MtF a fag. Word choice may be different but the meaning is essentially the same. And often men are quicker to accuse me of being butch than women are.

[false_dichotomy]

Yet more of my female friends call me by female pronouns and more of my guy friends call me by male ones. They all use my male name, though.
I've noticed that, too... even though my friends all call me Neil, it seems to be the females who have the most difficulty with pronouns. or even if they manage to get the pronouns right, they often say really offensive things (sometimes without even realizing it). Even if it's more "tolerating" than "accepting", I still appreciate that most guys don't seem to feel the need to analyze and ask why the way some females do. In my experience, it's more likely to get a "oh, you're a guy? That's cool" from men than it is from women. Keep in mind that most of my friends are queer though.

I've even got the impression from some women that they feel FTMs are betraying their sex or something-- WTF?!?

[xsideburnsx]

Well the only people I've told about being an FTM is a select handful of women. They've been a little more accepting of it. I don't think I could tell guys I hang out with. The thought of not being seen as a GM to them bothers me. Things change when you mention it. I think there's definitely ridicule on both sides. Do I think we have it easier than MTFs? Personally it really depends on the region and the type of people you surround yourself with. I don't think one group has it easier than the other. We both face discrimination.

[hayden von beethoven]

I've had better luck with girls being more accepting of my change. At Wichita State University's (Wichita Kansas) human sexuallity class they have a panel of people come in and talk once a year, and I've gone twice. Once as a very boyish lesbian who was confused and depressed and the second time as Hayden and when I told my story of what made me decide to go androgynous/trans fully I had a class room full of teary eyed college kids who all after the panel gave me hugs and shook my hand.

But what I found most interesting were the women in the class who I went to high school with as a straight female who came up to me and were telling me how happy they were for me this and that when I always assumed that GGs turned up their noses at FTM, not understanding the need to be masculine where a GM would because most men do want to be more masculine. The guys in the room weren't dicks to me most of them I knew from high school as well and they were alright with it but it's the girls that were the most accepting and interested in finding out more.

I've also had problems with guys giving me shit for wanting to transition. Saying things like I just don't know what it's like to be f**ked by a "Real" man, and as soon as he gets a try I'll sing a different song.

So I guess it depends on each person because theres also some girls that I worked with that where the most hateful creatures.

-shrug-:straightface:

[Maddie22]

For the FtM's you all sound just the opposite of the MtF's. Or at least from what I've seen it is easier for us to tell a GG than a GM. We can relate more. Its probably a comfort issue. Two masculine people or two feminine people have more in interests in common than say a feminine person and a masucline person (generally speaking) I know it would be hard for me to tell my buddies that I dress as a girl, but I have told a GG friend of mine and she was cool, and I'll probably tell another GG here soon. And as wierd as this sounds, I probably have a hard time hanging out with a FtM when I'm dressed as a girl, but it would be just fine when I'm dressed in my regular guys clothes, being buds. The opposite is probably true for MtF's. If I am dressed as a girl no problem haning out with them, but in guy mode I want to be with my boys.... If that makes sense w/o sound hypocritical. I don't have a problem with either side just who do I want to be around in different enviorments and and atmosphere. I think I am rambling on...but its cool to see the FtM's thoughts

[noname]

I believe society as whole does not reject FTM with the same resistance as MTF. Being a guy I know that you can not wear anything even slightly femm without getting harrassed about being a sissy and not being " a real man " ( I really hate that term ) I'm not saying society fully accepts FTM, but not nearly to the degree MTF. Even looking at clothing they make boy cut jeans and underwear for girls. You certainly won't find girl cut clothes for guys. I even bought a pair of mens capris but they were called " longest shorts ". Seemed to me they had reservations calling them capris. Lastly, I know a grocery store clerk and I'm not certain if her clothes are male or female but she's definately has what most would consider a mans hair cut. No body bats an eye. Don't get me wrong I know FTM do not have life easy. Life isn't easy for any of us.

** Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary.

[BarbaraTalbot]

My supportive GG, can't really understand some of thethings I find appealing about dressing, because as a girl,it became a chore. Such as one night I was unfocused and needed to do some work so I put dressed including a bra and heels and sat up in bed with the laptop and got the work done. We discussed it and agreed that no true GG would ever voluntarily put ON a bra to get comfortable.

When in guy mode I contemplate F-to_M dressing my knee-jerk reaction is why? its pretty easy, just avoid what I think of as dressing up and there you have it. pair of jeans, polo or button up shirt, and you're done. It occurs to me though that GG's must view our dressing the same way..its just clothes after all, textiles on skin.

So I just don't know how GG's or GM's or members of the Gay and Lesbian community at large, or CD's that are m-to-f react to those of you that dress f to m. I can see a lot of reasons that they would be indifferent, supportive, scornful or kind. I guess it depends on the person. I think there is a much lower wisk of a testosterone fueled rage against you though.

[psion128]

I totally agree on what the others say. Our culture accepts FTM CDing and generally doesn't even think twice about it. But when a MTF CDs, its like a big "no no".

[Cai]

I totally agree on what the others say. Our culture accepts FTM CDing and generally doesn't even think twice about it. But when a MTF CDs, its like a big "no no".

Sort of. FTM "CDing" is acceptable as long as the woman still looks like a woman, only wearing men's clothes. Where it touches on unacceptable is when the woman starts trying to look like a man wearing men's clothes. Most men in my experience are not accepting of women that don't look like women.

[CaptLex]

Sort of. FTM "CDing" is acceptable as long as the woman still looks like a woman, only wearing men's clothes. Where it touches on unacceptable is when the woman starts trying to look like a man wearing men's clothes. Most men in my experience are not accepting of women that don't look like women.
You said it, Cai. :clap:

[noname]

Like Capt Lex, you told the truth. Maybe this should be a different thread, but is it difficult for ftm to pass or be preceieved as a guy because women can wear mens clothes?

[Cai]

Maybe this should be a different thread, but is it difficult for ftm to pass or be preceieved as a guy because women can wear mens clothes?

Hell yes. At least in my experience.

[crazy4cheezeits]

Hell yes. At least in my experience.

Yeah. If I'm not binding/layering A LOT/ somehow making my breasts invisible, and even sometimes then, regardless of what I'm wearing, I'm perceived as a lesbian, not a male.

[ZenFrost]

Like Capt Lex, you told the truth. Maybe this should be a different thread, but is it difficult for ftm to pass or be preceieved as a guy because women can wear mens clothes?

Definately. It's also a lot easier to make my voice sound higher than it is to make it sound lower (nearly impossible for me without sounding fake) so that doesn't help things.

[barbra]

i am a mtf cd and love it.need to ask one thing,are you into there personal life and telling them how to pay bills and run a house hold?NO so what gives them the right to say what you are or what you do.NO ONE.DID GOD COME DOWN TO EARTH AND TELL THEM THAT THEY ARE IN CHARGE H------NO.JUST MY :2c:WORTH.

[noname]

Sigh... If only life were easy. I wish guys could wear womens clothes like girls can wear guys. Then maybe I could live a normal life, and not considered a wierdo. I can only imagine the things people think or say behind my back. Reminds me of a cute pic I saw once of two gerbils. One had big carrot and the other had a small piece of a carrot and the caption said, Life is not fair.

Anyway, enough of that. Back to your regular schedual program.