Self test

[Cai]

This afternoon I leave to go to NY for a week, to visit family. I haven't mentioned it before because I've been trying not to think about it. I was dreading the fights over clothing, the comments from extended family, trying to hide things from my mother.
So I made a decision. I'm going to treat this week as a test. I'm not taking any of my guy clothes, toiletries, or underwear. I'm bringing nice girl clothes that fit and that look good on me (from what I've been told anyway - I feel like I look awful in everything). I'm not going to try to hide guy's clothes from my mom, I'm just not going to wear them. 2 concessions to that rule - my clothes for the airport and my outfit for tomorrow, because I'm going to be alone.

The reason for this is that I've wondered whether some of my TG feelings come from feeling unattractive as a girl. That maybe I want to be a guy, not because I'm really a guy, but because I don't want to be an ugly girl. So I'm going to dress nicely as a girl, look good as a girl, and see how I feel. I'll play the part for the week, be the young woman my family expects.

At best, I'll learn something important about myself. At worst, I'll cut down on the number of fights during the trip and make the family happy.

[Dasein9]

You still have my number, right?

If things get bad, call.
If things don't get bad, but you want to go out for a drink or a gelato, call.

[Cai]

It's my extended family. It's always bad. I'm hoping that maybe this will make it less bad.

But yeah, I've got your number.

I've also got a plane ticket (if you make enough fuss they'll let you change dates sometimes) and a credit card. If I decide I just can't do it, I'll get out of there.

[Tristan]

:hugs:

I just had my family reunion yesterday. Luckily no one makes comments anymore about my boy clothes at informal gatherings. Will be thinking of you though, buddy.

[Dasein9]

Eh, why change the date? You're a good guest, so you have a standing invitation. My clothes would be big on you, but you'd still be welcome to borrow some.

[Felix]

I feel for ya Hun cos I go through these sorts of things every time i go to my parents. Have to wear things I don't really feel comfortable in but it keeps the peace and I can't stand the hastle and the nagging so it's easier well in some ways. Good luck Hun and at least ya got Das to call, he's a great bloke!! xx Felix :hugs::hugs:

[Cai]

You guys are great. I'm actually smiling now.

I think I can do this.

[Kieron Andrew]

I think I can do this.
I KNOW you can do this :hugs:

[Dasein9]

I KNOW you can do this :hugs:

I agree, Cai. You can do this. And if things go bad, then it won't be your fault. You're tough, you're smart, and you're making a real effort to get along. If someone picks a fight with you anyway, then it's that person's problem, not yours.

And knowing you have options may be just the thing that helps things go well.

I'm torn between wishes, one honourable and the other less so. On the one hand, I sincerely hope things go well for you with the family. On the other hand, I'm kind of jealous of them because you're good company and I wouldn't mind at all if you came to stay at my place. But I guess I'd rather it was for good reasons and not bad ones.

[Kieron Andrew]

Psst! Cai? Das is angling for another visit lol!

[Cai]

Well, I am trying to get into NYC the weekend before I go back to school (Aug 25-26). I might be meeting a friend or two from another forum, if it all works out. I'm supposed to be driving myself back to school this year, but it would be just like my mother to change her schedule so we could spend 10 hours in a car together.

[Dasein9]

Psst! Cai? Das is angling for another visit lol!

And Kieron is sending teasing PM's about it.

[Kieron Andrew]

And Kieron is sending teasing PM's about it.
lol no secret is safe with you....:rolleyes:

[Dasein9]

lol no secret is safe with you....:rolleyes:

How would you know? ;)

[bi_weird]

Good luck, Cai. *hug* Hope things go well for you. And I can sympathize with your particular thought, about liking boys clothes because you feel unattractive. But even having a boy tell me I was perfect and that he loved me exactly how I was didn't change my desire for boys clothes, so I'm sticking with it. Hope you find similar resolve.

[Cai]

I'm off. Should be in PA with my mom by 10pm or so, then NY tomorrow night. I'm gonna be MIA for the week, because I won't have a computer.

[Dasein9]

But even having a boy tell me I was perfect and that he loved me exactly how I was didn't change my desire for boys clothes, so I'm sticking with it. Hope you find similar resolve.

Me too! I used to borrow my husband's clothes all the time. Never mind that he was 13" taller and 100 lbs. heavier than I. I was actively jealous when we bought him a couple of good suits.

[ZenFrost]

I guess I'm rather late in posting here, but good luck.

[Laurie909]

The reason for this is that I've wondered whether some of my TG feelings come from feeling unattractive as a girl. That maybe I want to be a guy, not because I'm really a guy, but because I don't want to be an ugly girl.

I can identify with your feelings. Well, I don't feel good-looking as a man. I don't like the way I look. I don't look at myself in the mirror excepr to comb my hair. I'm not saying I look like something out of a monster movie, but you get the idea. However, I LIKE the way I look as a woman. However, looking like a woman is not enough fore me. I want to look like a pretty woman. And the older one gets, the harder that gets.

[TG-Taru]

I feel somewhat the same - I don't actively hate how I look as a guy, but it doesn't impress or interest me really. And bugs where it gets in the way of looking like a woman. As a woman I'm more interested in looking good, and feel I look better. Feeling better about yourself actually does make you look better, so...


looking like a woman is not enough fore me. I want to look like a pretty woman. And the older one gets, the harder that gets.

Me too. Not young anymore, but got some tolerably good years left. As for getting old, at least one can still aim for elegant, even attractive, if not pretty per se. There are different ways of looking good.

[Cai]

Interesting discussion I've sparked.

(I had some free time, so I found a public library)
Update on trip so far:

So I got off the plane in Philly. I'd been wearing guy jeans, a t-shirt, and another loose shirt over the tee. With the overshirt, you couldn't see my chest, without it, you could. So meeting my mom, I pulled off the overshirt and stuffed it into my bag. First words after hello were "Where's your purse?"
"I don't carry one."
"What, you just keep your wallet in a pocket?"
"Uh, yeah?"
"Where are you going to keep your sunglasses tomorrow?"
"On my eyes. (???) (where else?)"
She seemed to think that this was so strange.

In the car on the way back to her place, she told me she thought I had outgrown this tomboy stage. I had to bite my tongue, hard, to keep from absolutely bursting out laughing. She also said that I should grow my hair back out - with it short, and the loose jeans, and my wallet in my pocket, I look like I'm trying to look like a guy. Since that's the exact look I'm going for, I couldn't help but start smiling. She got pissed at that, told me it wasn't funny.

I'm glad so far that I brought my girl stuff. I think it's going to make life a lot simpler this week. And it's only for a week.

[Dasein9]

Oh, it sounds soooo much like we're related!

You're doing a good thing, trying to keep the peace. But know that sometimes family dynamics get us labeled and even all our efforts won't change that. People in my family still joke about my driving because I had a couple of fender-benders as a kid. Now, I've had a perfect driving record, without even a ticket, for well over 10 years, but the label still sticks.
If you get such a label, know that it's not your fault!

[Dasein9]

On an entirely different note, when I first saw the title to this thread, I was very worried. I feared it was going to be about a breast self-exam, and that you were going to be telling us you'd found a strange lump.

So, I was relieved that it's a very different sort of self test altogether.

[Cai]

:eek: No, nothing like that!

This is all mental. I mean, I know that the reason that I feel unattractive as a girl is symptom of being TG, not a cause. I know that feeling uncomfortable when female is not going to be fixed with prettier clothes. I know that I'm not just doing this as a phase, or for a change.

I just need to make myself believe it.

[Dasein9]

It'll happen. You're already much further along than I was a year ago. I have confidence that you'll work it out. Just thought it might help if I mentioned my misconception, just in case you need something for perspective while you're in the middle of the family messiness. :D

[Cai]

Perspective.
Ok.
This could be worse, it's just a family reunion.
I like these people - most of them. I may not agree with their politics or religious views, but they're good people. They've never done anything bad to me. At least, not intentionally. They're not deliberately going to try and mess with my emotional state.
And my mom's dog is here. It's hard to be upset when there's a Boxer attached to the side of your knee.

[Dasein9]

Exactly! These are people who love you and want what's best for you. That may not be what you want, but they're not bad. Repeat your last post as a mantra, if necessary. :D

And there's always escaping to be with the dog, if you need it. Dogs need walking. Walking helps blow off steam.

[Cai]

Yes. This dog needs a lot of walking. And I like to walk. I'll probably volunteer myself to do most of it.
I've also got my phone set to vibrate, so if I really need to get out in a hurry before I hit somebody, I can pretend I got a call and go outside to take it.

My wallet and phone haven't left my pocket, and aren't going to, in case I decide I need to get out of there. Wallet and phone I need, bag of girly clothes I can leave for my mom to deal with.

[Dasein9]

It sounds to me as though you've got it all covered. That's good. Most of the time, when we've got all our preparations made, we don't need them at all. That's what I wish for you -- that all this worry will be based on stuff that doesn't happen at all, that you have a good time with your family, and that you get home refreshed and happy about the trip.

[Cai]

I hope so. I'd hate to see any more bad blood in my family. I mean, there's already a huge fuss over the fact that my cousin is pregnant, and she's *gasp* only engaged! (Does that give you an idea of the politics I'm dealing with?) And I'd really hate to be the cause of any of it.

I guess I just need to relax and try not to worry so much. It's just that I can't recall a single family reunion where I haven't gone to tears at least once.

Maybe I'm stronger now. I'm older, for sure. And I've got the sense to stay the hell out of the room when they start arguing.

I wonder how long I can stay on this library computer before someone makes me move?

[Dasein9]

And I'd really hate to be the cause of any of it.


You won't be. Any trouble will be caused by any person foolish enough to start it. You've gone well out of your way to keep the peace and are doing the right thing. In fact, I'd say you've gone above and beyond, by only bringing the clothes you think they'll approve of. Just don't forget: You're part of the family too, and your self-respect is an important part of the family.

[Cai]

Not my fault. Got it.

It's almost easier to think of them as "the family" and myself somewhere outside it. Not that I mean they don't love me or vice versa, just that I don't feel very connected to them.

I have been neglecting my own feelings in this a bit, worrying more about how they'll react to the way I look instead of how I'm going to react to it. But I get the other 51 weeks this year to see myself the way I want, they get just one to see me the way they want.
Not to mention that if I embarrass my mother with my clothes, I'll never hear the end of it. She doesn't see me much either, and by being who she expects this week, I'm hoping she'll lay off for the rest of the time.

[Dasein9]

Right now, maybe I'm projecting my own family issues on yours. So, to be fair, keep that in mind, okay? I'm still in deep mourning over the nephew thing from a couple of weeks ago.

But in my experience, if someone in the family wants to pick a fight, they're going to find or make up something to pick a fight over, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop them from doing that. If they do, it's not your fault. You can't control it, and that's a good thing. Why expend the energy trying, when you could be expending that same energy enjoying the other members of the family?

What you can control is how you react. If someone starts something, don't forget to breathe deeply. Don't shout. (It's much more difficult that it looks!) Deal with the situation with class. I know you've got no shortage of class, so even if it's difficult, I have confidence you can do it. Remember, in a year, no-one will remember what the fight was about, but they may well remember how you deal with it. Think of it as a single play in a much larger game. You may win it, you may have someone push just the right button, and lose it. But either way, it's not the end of the game, much less the world.

Okay, will this sound less preachy if I tell you I'm writing it as much to myself as to you? Things are finally getting back to normal in my life, and I've been fighting tears about the nephew thing all morning.

[CaptLex]

You still have my number, right?

If things get bad, call.
If things don't get bad, but you want to go out for a drink or a gelato, call.

And you still have my number, right? If Cai makes a break for it, give me a buzz - I'd love to see him again too.

Cai, I really hope things work out for you, with the family as well as with your experiment. I hope people treat you well and accept you as you are, without much thought to how you look. And I hope you learn something about yourself with the self-test. Keep us posted, 'kay? :happy:

[Cai]

Das, that's incredibly excellent advice. Not just for family, for any situation. And I know you're still upset about your nephew. I wouldn't want to have to separate myself from my family, as hard as they are to deal with.

And btw, you guys are almost making me want to run for it, so I can come see you again. :happy:

[CaptLex]

And btw, you guys are almost making me want to run for it, so I can come see you again. :happy:
Maybe you can come back sometime soon anyway *looks hopeful*. Hey, Tristan will be here next month . . . maybe you can "just happen to be in the neighborhood" then. :D Wouldn't that be great?

[Dasein9]

Family outranks us, so give 'em a chance.

But know we're here for you too. And, by all means, regard yourself as having a standing invitation!

[Cai]

I will be in the neighborhood come the end of August, especially the weekend of the 25th. I need to make plans...

Ok, my stomach's bothering me again, so I'm going to head back to my mom's before it gets any worse. Might be able to get back later tonight or tomorrow though.

[Dasein9]

Good luck! :)

[Tristan]

I will be in the neighborhood come the end of August, especially the weekend of the 25th. I need to make plans...

Ok, my stomach's bothering me again, so I'm going to head back to my mom's before it gets any worse. Might be able to get back later tonight or tomorrow though.

I'm in the area that weekend too :) I leave back for ND the 27th

[Dasein9]

I feel a night out coming on... :D