Coming out to the guys

[Jenna Lynne]

Here's a question. I'm new here, and it may have been talked about up and down the block already, but I wouldn't know.

Having strangers see you in public and very possibly perceive you as "a man wearing a dress" is one thing. But having your male buddies see you -- or even, spend time around you -- would be a very different thing. Personally, I'd find it much more awkward/scary. Unless it was, like, Halloween or something. That would be okay, because everybody could pretend they thought it was just a one-time thing, you know?

So has anybody in the group ever, like, gone to a ball game with the guys while dressed? If so, how did it work out?

I have a reason for asking, but I'm not sure I want to get into it quite yet.

***Jenna***

[Emily Ann Brown]

So, what teams are you and the guys going to see play?


Emily Ann

[chucks]

i've dressed around 2 of my best friends. it was easy. got some questions and that sort of thing. laughter. but to me the fun is in being ridiculous so that was fine.

the more you believe all the thoughts about how scary and awkward it will be, the more they will come true. i had none of that and my relationships have not changed at all.

[Jenna Lynne]

So, what teams are you and the guys going to see play?
Oh, we're all into pro wrestling.:heehee: That and tournament bowling and, you know, the Scottish thing where they throw the log. I forget the name. And the rodeo! Those huge, amazing cows!

Sorry, I'm being naughty. Truth is, I'm not enamored of spectator sports. I was just using sports as an example. Maybe a too extreme example.

Let's say you're Cliff the mail carrier. Have you ever gone into Cheers, where everybody knows your name, while dressed as Clarisse?

***Jenna***

[PheonaP]

The "Scottish thing" is "Tossing the Caber" hun.:hugs::hugs:

[Joy Carter]

Do you really plan on doing this only once ? And since your going out with your friends in public. Are you dressing to pass ? And do you really think your friends will accept you dressed ?

It's really hard for someone to dress to pass or try to pass, and not have everyone think this just a one time event. I can bet they will know there is somthing up with you.
Is it worth loosing friends over your wanting to get out dressed ?

My advice is to find some CD friends and go where your accepted.:2c:

[Michelle S]

I am a middle aged professional and live and work in a small town. So, running into friends or colleagues is a concern for me. So far a student saw me, but did not recognize me; once I sat next to someone in a coffee shop that I had met while en femme at the local gay bar and he did not recognize me! But, if I run into someone form work at the mall, they probably would (better lighting!). It is mostly my own internal fears - I don't think I'd get fired and most of my friends are liberal or libertarian. Still, we evolved the capacity to feel fear for a purpose: to protect us from danger even when we can't see it with our reason.

I'd be very interested to hear from people who have come out to - or been 'caught' by - friends or co-workers. Not just what happened, but how you dealt with your internal issues would be good to learn from. The family issues discussed here are import, but I am glad that Jenna has raised this.

[Frankie-Dear]

My scuba diving buddies would NEVER understand. I would never live it down, and I would be the source of unending ridicule. Seriously. Forget it... I agree: Go where you are accepted.

[chucks]

to deal with the internal issues you must first realize that thinking of them constantly is what gives them their strength. determine to be without fear and it will all vanish. be bold.

you will be miserable if you are trying to control everyone and everything. let people think what they will. be humble and simple, you will be free.

[Frankie-Dear]

Whatever, Gandhi.... There's also the expression, "Discretion is the better part of valor."

I appreciate that I am pushing MY boundaries. It's not appropriate, compassionate, nor desireable that I push the others' boundaries. They know me in the context of diving, drinking, and hanging out. I enjoy that comaraderie and that context. I am losing nothing by NOT coming out to them, and see no good reason why I should. It doesn't detract from my self-respect or self-image one iota, and I don't live my life based on what others think of me, but like I said, there's just no good reason to tell them. I haven't told my parents or my brother. Again: There's just no good reason for doing so. Your mileage may vary.... *shrug*

[KandisTX]

Frankie

You are 100% RIGHT ON GURL I have my paintball buddies (some know, most don't know, about Kandis). The ones that do know are mainly female and don't care. I have my renaissance faire buddies, 99.9% of them all know and the .1% that don't haven't met me yet. :devil: though, with the renaissance people, it is somewhat more acceptable as it is more like wearing a costume like we do at Faires.

It's important to keep some areas of your life on a differant level. With GGs it's much easier as they tend to be much more understanding and accepting. Whereas on the other hand, most GMs are NOT, they were probably raised that "Men don't cry", and "Men dress like men". They will not likely have that open-mindedness that many of us have come to realize we have amongst ourselves.

Kandis:love:

[Brianna Lovely]

I guess it depends on how secure you are with yourself. As far as "friends" go, would they still be your friends, if you lost the use of your legs, went blind, mute or deaf?

Sometimes, we have many aquaintences, but in reality only a few friends.


I just got back from a luncheon, with 34 men, and I was dressed in my semi-fem mode. A man sitting next to me, Bob, said that a guy had passed by our table, and had done a double-take, looking at me. I told Bob, "Well, if he comes by again, point him out and I'll give him a wink, giggle".

Now, do I think that the 34 men all approve of my dressong style? NO! But some accept me for who I am, some say how nice my current nail collor is, some 'just love' my skirt. And I'm comfortable with myself and my presentation.

[RobertaFermina]

Not Exactly....

I've gone EnFemme to Men's Group, and with my Men's Group Pals gone out Dancing. This Year showed up for Super Bowl Party with the Guys.

They are a pretty accepting bunch of guys, and I have no secrets around them....then that's the nature of my Men's Group.

I have never done it with friends who are not in a Group or Personal Growth Path. That would be a step. I *am* prepared to take it - I think!?

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Joy Carter]

to deal with the internal issues you must first realize that thinking of them constantly is what gives them their strength. determine to be without fear and it will all vanish. be bold.

you will be miserable if you are trying to control everyone and everything. let people think what they will. be humble and simple, you will be free.

Thought is one thing. When it turns in to verbal belligerence and gossiping to other friends, that would be hard to take.
Look for a support group or friends here. Even if it requires some travel.
I just know what it's like to loose friends over TG issues. But then they really were not friends were they.

[Frankie-Dear]

I forgot to add: I never seek to control anyone but myself. Why would I try to change anyone or limit their freedom? I certainly wouldn't want anyone trying to change me or limit mine. And as for being miserable, do I seem miserable?

I am at peace in my marriage, gratified in my work, in good health, secure in my financial status, proud of my child, on good terms with my friends, at peace with my God, and I have no enemies.

Life is good! :thumbsup:

[DonnaT]

Jenna, it depends on your friends and how accepting you think they will be, on our inner strength, and whether you intend to dress more often than not.

If you can laugh with them, should they laugh, then that's cool. If you would get upset or feel embarrassed, then I'd say definitley not.

You know your friends better than any of us do.

If you intend it to be a one time deal, then I'd suggest not doing it. If you consider it to be a lyfestyle type change then go ahead.

I went to a boy scout reunion last year. Had my cz earrings on. One of my friends asked, "What the hell's in your ears?" My response "Pretty aren't they?" My older brother laughed and nothing else was said about my earrings, by anyone.

[Jenna Lynne]

Jenna, it depends on your friends and how accepting you think they will be, on our inner strength, and whether you intend to dress more often than not.

If you can laugh with them, should they laugh, then that's cool. If you would get upset or feel embarrassed, then I'd say definitley not.

You know your friends better than any of us do.

If you intend it to be a one time deal, then I'd suggest not doing it. If you consider it to be a lyfestyle type change then go ahead.
A lifestyle change is sort of what it comes down to. At the moment the question is not urgent, but I'm trying to imagine how I might rearrange my schedule so that I can be, like, 24/3. (24/7 is totally not going to happen.) There's one regular activity on one particular evening that sits right in the middle of the 3, and I don't think it's likely that the guys will want to reschedule it.

They're a pretty loose bunch, but something like this is bound to be outside their experience. Ah, well. I don't have to decide this month. Thanks, all, for your thoughts.

***Jenna***

[Stephenie S]

This is something you can talk about before you do it. And you definately SHOULD talk about it before you do it. You can mention this in conversation LONG before anyone sees you. And you know, your friends may NEVER get the oportunity to see you. They may not need to. I am assuming you do not want to dress 24/7, do you? Do you want to hang with them while dressed? Probably not, huh? Seeing you dressed will be a huge mental hurdle to overcome. Far harder to deal with than just talking about it.

Give them some warning first. If in your conversation you can appear relaxed and matter of fact about the fact that you CD, it will be MUCH easier for your friends to wrap their heads around it. Give them some WARNING verbally BEFORE you spring this sort of revelation on them. And I mean a LOT of warning. A year or so, maybe? And really, you have to treat this as a positive thing in your life, a plus. Let your friend know that you know that you are a better person for this. Someone who can see and experience life from a different perspective now and then. If you do, I think you will be surprised at how accepting others will be when you give them the benefit of the doubt.

Stephenie

[Jenna Lynne]

This is something you can talk about before you do it. And you definately SHOULD talk about it before you do it. You can mention this in conversation LONG before anyone sees you. And you know, your friends may NEVER get the oportunity to see you. They may not need to. I am assuming you do not want to dress 24/7, do you? Do you want to hang with them while dressed? Probably not, huh?
Well, that's kind of the essence of the deal. In order to participate in this particular gathering (I'm being deliberately vague), I would have to be there for two or three hours at a time. It isn't about hanging with them, it's about an activity that we're involved in together.

Your suggestion about telling them ahead of time is very good. I'll definitely do that when the time comes. And build up to it gradually ... like, "It's been an intense week. I've been going through some changes." "Oh, yeah? What kind of changes?" "I'm not ready to talk about it yet. Maybe I'll tell you more about it sometime soon."

I can be incredibly sneaky and devious, you see!:battingeyelashes:

***Jenna***

[Sinthia]

I have hever been seen by my co-workers in dresses or skirts, but I did tell two guys that I worked with, one for 18 years, the other 13 years, that my divorce was because I cross-dressed. One guy said 'You accept me and I am an alcoholic on the wagon, so I accept you any way you want to be'. The other guy said 'You accepted me when I was on drugs, so I accept you in a dress'. Both guys said that it shocked the hell out of them when I said I crossdressed, but that was OK with them. Four years later, we are still great friends. Your true friends will probably feel the same as my friends do.

[Missy]

what is it that you really want to feel good and be around your friends or dress up for your friends to see if any one might take it any further with you

[Stephenie S]

Oh ick! These are my buds. I don't want to "take it any further" with ANY of them, thank you. That's gross. I just want to be me.

Stephie

[Jenna Lynne]

what is it that you really want to feel good and be around your friends or dress up for your friends to see if any one might take it any further with you
If any of them started to flirt with me, I honestly don't know how I'd react. I think if I was securely in girl mode, I'd just flirt right back! I may not be secure enough to pull it off ... but the far more likely outcome is that none of them would dream of flirting with me in the first place.

That's not the point of it, though. I'm just thinking ahead about how to schedule my week so as to be able to dress for two or three days running. At this moment, I have something on my plate EVERY SINGLE DAY. Some things can be reshuffled to other days to open up a teensy gap, but this particular gathering can't be reshuffled. It's pretty much always going to be scheduled for the same time every week.

So I'm thinking, hmm, if I want to do that activity AND I want to be dressed for three days, I'm pretty much going to have to do the activity en femme. That's really all it's about.

***Jenna***

[Michelle S]

If you decide to talk to one or more of your friends about your cross dressing perhaps - if they seem reasonably ok with it - show them a couple of pictures before they see you en femme. You might not want to tell them you are doing this three days a week at first. Let them think you just CD once in awhile. Perhaps they'll invite to come to the event en femme once - say around Halloween. Then you could gradually work up to coming en femme regularly.
Good luck!

I am thinking of telling one or two GG friends first. (My gf knows and is very supportive.)

[Stephenie S]

Don't do it Jenn. It's not fair. You are thinking only about yourself here, and not about them at all. If these are really your friends, then treat them as friends. Don't sandbag them with this. They deserve much more than just seeing you walk through the door dressed as a woman. As I said, very seriously, before, give them some warning. And not just 5 minutes warning. This is something you should talk about BEFORE you do it.

Please re-think this. Your friends deserve to be treated better.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Frankie-Dear]

Don't do it Jenn. It's not fair. You are thinking only about yourself here, and not about them at all. If these are really your friends, then treat them as friends. Don't sandbag them with this. They deserve much more than just seeing you walk through the door dressed as a woman. As I said, very seriously, before, give them some warning. And not just 5 minutes warning. This is something you should talk about BEFORE you do it.

Please re-think this. Your friends deserve to be treated better.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Yep. Like I said, you can push YOUR envelope as much as you want. When you go pushing the boundaries of other people, especially friends, then that's when difficulties are certain to arise.

[Mitch23]

I have a scenario coming up in the next couple of weeks. We are going on a girlie night out, and if guys want to come then they must be girls. I can let them do me up and treat it has a laugh or come dressed to my own tastes and standards which will mean 'coming out' not only to the girls but to the rest of the workforce including the 'rednecks'

Mitch

[Frankie-Dear]

I have a scenario coming up in the next couple of weeks. We are going on a girlie night out, and if guys want to come then they must be girls. I can let them do me up and treat it has a laugh or come dressed to my own tastes and standards which will mean 'coming out' not only to the girls but to the rest of the workforce including the 'rednecks'

Mitch

Aw... Now see, that sounds like a lot of fun! :thumbsup:But it's EVERYONE participating, and nobody is getting shocked by it. :thumbsup:

[KandisTX]

GlitterGG and I keep meaning to plan a "slumber party" for the ladies, where the guys would be allowed, BUT they had to come en femme. For me of course, that would not be an issue, but it would be interesting to see how many of the guys we know would be willing to do it, if just for the purpose of being campy.

Kandis:love:

[Jenna Lynne]

Don't do it Jenn. It's not fair. You are thinking only about yourself here, and not about them at all. Please re-think this. Your friends deserve to be treated better.
Sorry, Stephie. I can't agree with you at all. To say that I ought to "treat them better" implies very clearly to me that you're saying that letting someone know (or see) that I crossdress is somehow treating them BADLY.

That's just not right. If I do that, I'm shouldering responsibility for other people's feelings. It's totally, totally codependent. If I buy into that line of thinking, I'd better get myself to a 12-Step Program real quick, because I'm the one who is making me miserable!

How would it be treating them "badly" to assume that they're grown-ups and can take responsibility for their own feelings? Can you fill me in on your thinking here?

***Jenna***

[renee99]

I think we should only seek to invoke positive feelings in our acquaintances, because that is what gives us a good public image, as representatives of a marginalized group.

When it comes to friends, it depends. Sometimes the only way to be a real friend is by invoking negative feelings, but that would be when the friend has issues that simply need to be addressed. When being CD/Tg is *your* issue, you can't exactly just tell your friends to take it or leave it with this "new" development, because that's invoking negative feelings just because they associate with you... end result, they stop associating with you.

[Wenda]

I have gone out with friends/co-workers enfemme a couple of times, but there was always a 'reason'. Some have connected the dots, because my wardrobe, wigs, shoes etc, is a bit more extensive than your average cowboy would have on hand for Halloween, but nothing has come of it. Use discretion. All the best! w.

[Stephenie S]

Sorry, Stephie. I can't agree with you at all. To say that I ought to "treat them better" implies very clearly to me that you're saying that letting someone know (or see) that I crossdress is somehow treating them BADLY.

That's just not right. If I do that, I'm shouldering responsibility for other people's feelings. It's totally, totally codependent. If I buy into that line of thinking, I'd better get myself to a 12-Step Program real quick, because I'm the one who is making me miserable!

How would it be treating them "badly" to assume that they're grown-ups and can take responsibility for their own feelings? Can you fill me in on your thinking here?

***Jenna***

Dear Jenna,

Read my post again. Perhaps I was unclear. I do not mean at all that "letting someone know" you CD is treating them badly. I meant that surprising them with the fact that you CD is treating them badly. You misinterpreted my point.

My point was that you should let them know you CD. Treating them badly would be springing your CDing on them with no warning. They will probably still accept you but it's unfair of you to expect them to accept your CDing with no preparation. I wanted you to TELL them first. Give them some warning. Let them accept the idea that you CD before you shove it in their face.

Of course, it's OK for you to handle this however you want. My point was only that if you give them some warning, some time to prepare, some time to "get their heads around the idea" that it will be easier for them to accept your actions.

I speak from some experience. I have told many people about Stephenie. I have exposed many people to Stephenie. Strangers don't matter. We don't really care about how strangers feel. But family and friends DO matter. We should care about their feelings. I have found from experience that family and friends do much better when you give them some time to prepare for your feminine self.

It would be great for YOU if you just show up dressed. That would make it easy from your perspective. But from your friends perspective, I think it would be far easier for them if you let them know first. Try to be empathetic here. Try to put yourself in their shoes. How would YOU want to find out that your friend was . . . say, . . . a bondage enthusiast, for example. Would you want him to talk to you about it first? Or would you want him to just show up at your house all decked out in black leather and chains, carrying a whip and leading a naked young woman on a dog leash?

Remember, I wanted you to introduce your fem self in as "matter of fact" a way as you can. To make sure that they know that you know that it's "all right". That you don't feel ashamed and guilty about it. Let them know, before hand, that you consider this to be a PLUS in your life that doesn't need to be hidden away.

So, I hope I have explained my thoughts a bit better this time. Believe me, I speak from experience.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[SatinDoll00]

I had a very close friend that I believe discovered, or at least strongly suspected, my little secret. He and I are no longer friends...and we were as close as brothers for more than 15 years. I still cry over that loss from time to time, and it has been 4 years now.

Here is something about friendship...

Your friends have developed a trust with you. They know you. At least they think that do. To suddenly come out with something as monumental as this requires that they re-evaluate everything they have ever known about you. The question of sexuality is a difficult one for many to answer, and it is a subject for many men than is shrouded in many falsehoods.

To ask your friends to accept this is a great deal to ask.

Ask yourself this...is it more important to put yourself out there, or is it more important to retain your friends. I can promise you, not all, if any, of them will understand.

I hope this works out for you.

Morgan

[trannie T]

I came out to a friend a few months ago, he handled it well but I don't think that either of us are ready for me to make an appearence en femme. Although we see each other most every day he has mentioned crossdresseng only once or twice.
Telling your friends is one step to take before showing up en femme. I would talk to them before showing up in a dress.

[OC-crossdresser]

Try to put yourself in their shoes. How would YOU want to find out that your friend was . . . say, . . . a bondage enthusiast, for example. Would you want him to talk to you about it first? Or would you want him to just show up at your house all decked out in black leather and chains, carrying a whip and leading a naked young woman on a dog leash?

AAA i feel this is a whole new topic :heehee:

my answer is to tell them in advance real friends will accept it fake ones will leave if they leave you don't need them anyway

[Stephenie S]

AAA i feel this is a whole new topic :heehee:

my answer is to tell them in advance real friends will accept it fake ones will leave if they leave you don't need them anyway

Oh please, OC,

It's not a whole new topic, it's an example. An illustration. Pay attention.

Or was your tongue in your cheek on that one?

Stephie

[Jenna Lynne]

Dear Jenna,

Read my post again. Perhaps I was unclear. I do not mean at all that "letting someone know" you CD is treating them badly. I meant that surprising them with the fact that you CD is treating them badly. You misinterpreted my point.

My point was that you should let them know you CD. Treating them badly would be springing your CDing on them with no warning.

Try to put yourself in their shoes. How would YOU want to find out that your friend was . . . say, . . . a bondage enthusiast, for example. Would you want him to talk to you about it first? Or would you want him to just show up at your house all decked out in black leather and chains, carrying a whip and leading a naked young woman on a dog leash?
Okay, I misinterpreted. Sorry for jumping all over you, Stephenie! What you're suggesting is exactly how I would handle it (and have done so in the past).

In answer to that fantasy question, though ... gee, I guess it would depend on whether the bondage dude and his friend wanted me to join in the fun! I've never done either bondage OR a threesome, but I have to confess the idea has points of interest.:battingeyelashes:

***Jenna***

[Stephenie S]

Well, Jenn, I actually HAD that happen to me.

My wife and I had met someone who was into BD/SM in Boston. We seemed to hit it off on a social level, and we had mentioned that if he was ever in our small Vermont town, he should give us a call.

Well he showed up just as I descibed one afternoon as we were taking the kids out for a boating trip on the lake. It was a bit uncomfortable to say the least. We had to ask him to leave.

Lovies,
Stephenie