My former SO

[LaFem]

I was thinking about how I have dealt with my former SO about me dressing up and acting like a woman. This is my story, and only my story.

I did not tell my ex-wife about my dressing up and acting like a woman until three years into the marriage; when there were already children, and all the normal marital obligations. It was not easy for her. She told me she married a man, not a woman, and she wasn't a lesbian and did not want to deal with my dressing up and acting like a woman. She also told me I never should have kept this from her before marriage. Well, I persisted and eventually got some "privileges". She very uncomfortably allowed this for a brief while, until I wanted to dress up and act like a woman more and more. We stayed together a bit longer, to pay the bills and for the kids. After a little time for both of us in support groups and therapy, we called it quits. My dressing up and acting like a woman was way too much for her, I was wrong to do this to her, and I deeply regret my self-centered, thoughtless behavior.

I have been thinking about this for years, and I have finally put this into some kind of perspective. I asked "What if things were reversed?" By that I don't mean that "I" was the woman, and my husband wanted to dress up and act like a woman. I mean "I" am a fairly regular type guy, with absolutely no desire to dress and act like a woman, a man who did not ever even think about dressing up and acting like a woman, even on Halloween. Just a good old straight guy and a loving husband. Now, after three years married and two kids, she tells me she wants to dress up and act like a man. She wants to stop wearing makeup, wear men's clothes, stop shaving, paste on a moustache, cut her hair short, and bind her breasts, and she would love to dress and act like a man during romance. She tells me she has felt this way since she was four years old, and she can no longer keep it bottled up inside her, although she has desperately tried. I would not be very accepting, I don't even think that I would have even considered any type of counselling, I would not even try to save the relationship, it would be just too yucky for me.

I would have told her she should have told me about this before marriage, and her dressing up and acting like a man hurt me deeply.

I would tell her that I married a woman, and that is what I want. I would tell her that when she dresses up and acts like a man, it disgusts me. I would tell her that I am not a homosexual, and I don't want to participate in this in any way and I don't want to play her games.

I understand now, I really do.

This is my story, and nothing else.

[Joy Carter]

I have much the same story except we didn't divorce. We both were not honest about things. But we love each other too much too call it quits. In love all things a possable, if you really love each other.

[Tree GG]

Somewhere on the way here, we discussed that "what if" scenario. He was OK up until the part about bringing it into the bedroom and then he put on the brakes. Many of the peeps we've met in the community are transitioning and I think that brought it home to him just how phenomenal it is for the GG SO to decide to maintain the relationship. Truly a love beyond the current conventionality.

Now, of course, that's thru the femme/TG colored filter in his mind. If he was the "good ol' boy" you describe, I'm sure he probably would dismiss the possibility out of hand as you suggest.

Perspective is everything and sounds like you've found a new one - congrats! It is the very open person who can love without the common frame of reference or perspective, and no matter how hard you try, you sometimes just can't see it the same way. Loving thru that is a tremendous accomplishment.

[Eva Marie]

I'm wondering what it is that you're trying to tell us???

[Sandygal]

I'm wondering what it is that you're trying to tell us???

I don't think she is trying to tell us anything, I think she is just giving us some food for thought. We can either say screw that or we can say hmmmm, interesting.

[Dixie]

Putting the shoe on the other foot once in awhile doesn't hurt (unless you walk in them hehehe), we should think how our SO's feel and not get too caught up in our own feelings. In a marriage it takes two people to make it work and there are enough curve balls thrown at you to not be honest from the get go, it just adds one more where none are needed.

[Marla S]

Isn't it strange how love depends on outwardness ?
Nevertheless quite a few will say it is the inner values, and the inner beauty that counts.:rolleyes:

Isn't it true selfishness saying: I want you to look and act like I want you to look and act to be able to love you ?

[Julia Welch]

A very valid statement and brings the hobby into a different perspective....would I share my bed with another "man"....could I make love to another "man".

It's certainly alot of food for thought....maybe we should put these topics to a poll?

Thankyou for this insight LeFem.....

[RobertaFermina]

The "garden of being and doing" is filled with "data", "judgements", "feelings", and "(re-)actions". Reactions create new facts, new "data" to fuel a never-ending cycle.

La Fem has given us her story: What Happened:"data"; how she and her S.O. *THOUGHT* about it: "judgments"; How they felt about it, at least her S.O.: "feelings", and the responsive action they took (or accepted): "(re-)actions".

Many people can notice the same data about their lives, and with different values, make different judgments leading to different feelings and responses.

Now her story is our data, and we get to judge, feel and respond.

First, however, I say "LaFem.....Thank You !"

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[renee99]

I think what goes on in public, what goes on lounging at home, and what goes on in the bedroom are 3 separate things. Some married SO's will tolerate gender variance in some of those situations but not others. It would be very rare for a married SO to tolerate transgenderism in all three contexts. For example, I am publicly a girly male, while lounging at home I may be dressed as a woman but still act like a man in terms of taking initiative and leading, but I'm definitely a woman in the bedroom and let my SO take charge. My SO's could not tolerate being seen socially as a lesbian, but she's wild in the bedroom. Other SO's are okay with being girlfriends in public, but require a man in the bedroom. That kind of SO would work for other CDs but would not work for me because I am not a man in the bedroom. I think there is a lot more sexual role variance out there than the OP is familiar with.

[Stephenie S]

Yes, La Fem, you got it. And it's a point that many on this forum cannot seem to get their minds around.

What you have done is to create an exercise in EMPATHY. Empathy means seeing a situation from another's point of view.

When one complains about how one's SO does not accept you, you may not be truely seeing things throught her eyes. How many of us could respond positively to our SO if they anounced one day that they wanted to be a man? How well could we operate in the bedroom with a woman (our SO) who had hairy legs, a crewcut, padded jockey shorts, a fake mustache, bound breasts (or no breasts), no painted nails, sexy nighties, or nice perfume? In other words, a woman pretending to be a man. How many? How many of us could respond in a positive manner if our now masculinized SO wanted to hold hands in public? How many could respond positively if our now masculine looking SO wanted to go dancing with us. That would mean we would have to appear to all who saw us as gay, a homosexual. I suspect that some of the first to cry foul when their SO doesn't "understand" them, would be among the first to reject their partner in the above exercise.

Good for you, La Fem! You "got it" for sure.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[AmberTG]

I have nothing intelligent to add to this, I 'd have to go with Stephenie's response. I'm basicly bisexual but it would still be out of my comfort zone.

[Jacqui]

I have been thinking about this for years, and I have finally put this into some kind of perspective. I asked "What if things were reversed?" I understand now, I really do.

This is my story, and nothing else.

This is close to my story also. My thoughts concerning what you have stated have kept me from coming out to my wife for the reasons you mentioned.

I actually started a similar thread more than a year ago that upon re-reading is still consistent with how I feel.

http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21843

[LaFem]

Dear Jacqui, I read your thread and I think it's wonderful. Anyone reading this will find your old thread a good addition to this one. It seems like we are on the same frequency. Had I been a little more aware, a little more empathic (perfect word Stephanie S) perhaps I would have kept it quiet too. With all the twists and turns of life, especially a life full of secrets, there are bound to be some wrong turns. I, unfortunately took a lot of those wrong turns.

Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got till it's gone.

[Andi]

Dear LaFem, thank you for putting this subject into the right perspective for me. I tried to engage my wife 40+ years ago and she solidly rejected all involvement. Fortunately I let it go and never brought it up again. I went deep into the closet and continued my pleasure on the sly - not exactly fair either - but it keeps her from being involved. I'm not bitter toward her but always wondered why she couldn't support me if she "loved" me. Your post explains the reason very clearly when I look at the situation the way you suggested. Thank you, thank you for smacking me with a 2x4 between the eyes. I can see clearly now..........

[trannie T]

I don't know that many of us have a choice about being crossdressers, it is an essential component of our being. It is sad that so many cannot tell the ones they love about this part of their lives.

[Sheri 4242]

What you have done is to create an exercise in EMPATHY. Empathy means seeing a situation from another's point of view.

Stephenie: I hope you won't mind, but I'd like to "enhance" your definition of "empathy" b/c the meaning of the word goes much deeper than just seeing a situation from another's point of view." The word's true meaning adds to what you are saying!!! "Empathy" means you can project yourself into and identify fully with another (or another's situation). Seeing a situation from another's point of view is "sympathy;" "empathy" is much stronger b/c it means you can truly feel from the inside of another. We can use Country Girl GG's situation as an example. "If" a person has never experienced a beloved parent having a critically serious health situation, they can see the situation from the person's point, but that doesn't rise to the same degree of being able to have empathy. Now, if one has experienced a very loved parent going through a serious health problem, then they can go deeper -- they can project themselves into that person's situation and truly feel what they are feeling b/c they have actually experienced the same or a closely similar situation.

In the main, you used the word correctly for what you were trying to convey -- it was your definition that needed enhancing so that others could better comprehend the depth of what you meant.


Yes, La Fem, you got it. And it's a point that many on this forum cannot seem to get their minds around.

This is the one place where we will have to agree to disagree, b/c I am convinced that many on this forum can get their minds around the point LaFem made!!! Now, whether or not they agree is another story, but that doesn't mean they can't comprehend the basic premise!


I'm wondering what it is that you're trying to tell us???


I don't think she is trying to tell us anything, I think she is just giving us some food for thought. We can either say screw that or we can say hmmmm, interesting.

Well, IMHO, she was trying to tell us something -- and actually Sandygal YOU call that something "food for thought" which IS something! To this, logic and common sense dictates that we can pick two of the following: (a.) interesting or not interesting, (b.) valid or invalid -- or, in the alternative we can say we need to digest it and think about it before deciding. Eva Marie was asking a legitimate question so that she could decide how she feels. If we're all going to try and get along, regardless of whether we agree on any given issue/question or not, we need to practice full, fair, and open discourse. Eva deserved an answer b/c the issue subtending the thread is interesting and enlightening. Better to explain the issue so that all can participate than to dismiss someone who makes a legitimate inquiry!

[LaFem]

Dear AndiGirl,

I'm quite happy that my personal story meant something to you.

.....the rain is gone...it's gonna be a bright, bright sunshiny day.

[TracyH]

I agree with you, LaFem, that no matter how open minded or accepting you are, it doesn't mean you have to compromise on what kind of person you're attracted to or what you want out of a relationship. That goes for the wife of a crossdresser, too. Whether they're accepting or not, they still may or may not find crossdressers attractive.

[angela2112]

I haven't posted all that much but had to reply to this thread as it's one of the best posts i've ever read on here.

All too often with us C/Ders it always has to be about US,how WE feel,about OUR feelings,why can't our SO's accept US......yadda yadda yadda ! To read some of the posts on here it's plainly obvious that a lot of us never get out of our own arses.....and i'm included very much in this category.

Sometimes it would do all of us a lot of good to have a good look at ourselves,stop being so selfish (me me me,what about me!) and try to look at CDing from other peoples (SO's) perspectives. Some SO's can accept it,some can't but no point complaining about it if they can't accept their man wearing a dress.

My best friends are CDers,a nicer bunch of folks you would never meet but the "me myself and I " syndrome comes across loud and clear. I know it's not easy and lots of us have sad tales to tell and some have had crappy lives because of folks finding out and being outed etc etc but that's no excuse to blame SO's for what is still(and you can like it or not) regarded by most folks as a perversion.

Sometimes maybe we all need to have a reality check....It's a hell of a lot to expect our partners to go along with/accepting us wanting to look like a girl......sometimes,just sometimes taking a step back and having a wee think about their feelings would do all of us the world of good.

[kittypw GG]

Yes, La Fem, you got it. And it's a point that many on this forum cannot seem to get their minds around.

What you have done is to create an exercise in EMPATHY. Empathy means seeing a situation from another's point of view.

When one complains about how one's SO does not accept you, you may not be truely seeing things throught her eyes. How many of us could respond positively to our SO if they anounced one day that they wanted to be a man? How well could we operate in the bedroom with a woman (our SO) who had hairy legs, a crewcut, padded jockey shorts, a fake mustache, bound breasts (or no breasts), no painted nails, sexy nighties, or nice perfume? In other words, a woman pretending to be a man. How many? How many of us could respond in a positive manner if our now masculinized SO wanted to hold hands in public? How many could respond positively if our now masculine looking SO wanted to go dancing with us. That would mean we would have to appear to all who saw us as gay, a homosexual. I suspect that some of the first to cry foul when their SO doesn't "understand" them, would be among the first to reject their partner in the above exercise.

Good for you, La Fem! You "got it" for sure.

Lovies,
Stephenie

I have always said that some CD's would have a hard time doing what they are asking for. Thanks for saying it Stephenie. You give me hope that some cd's really do "get it". :hugs: Kitty

[Mitch23]

I haven't posted all that much but had to reply to this thread as it's one of the best posts i've ever read on here.

All too often with us C/Ders it always has to be about US,how WE feel,about OUR feelings,why can't our SO's accept US......yadda yadda yadda ! To read some of the posts on here it's plainly obvious that a lot of us never get out of our own arses.....and i'm included very much in this category.

Sometimes it would do all of us a lot of good to have a good look at ourselves,stop being so selfish (me me me,what about me!) and try to look at CDing from other peoples (SO's) perspectives. Some SO's can accept it,some can't but no point complaining about it if they can't accept their man wearing a dress.

My best friends are CDers,a nicer bunch of folks you would never meet but the "me myself and I " syndrome comes across loud and clear. I know it's not easy and lots of us have sad tales to tell and some have had crappy lives because of folks finding out and being outed etc etc but that's no excuse to blame SO's for what is still(and you can like it or not) regarded by most folks as a perversion.

Sometimes maybe we all need to have a reality check....It's a hell of a lot to expect our partners to go along with/accepting us wanting to look like a girl......sometimes,just sometimes taking a step back and having a wee think about their feelings would do all of us the world of good.
Thinking about my own circumstances and why I am so self centred and narcissistic. Spent the best part of 50 years in the closet with my 'dirty little secret' then all of a sudden I've rushed out, told my wife and I'm now in that pink fog everyones talking about. And hey, I look and feel sexy and gorgeous and everyone tells me so! And I can go out dressed, meet other trannies, go to fetish parties, support groups etc

Except I've left her to deal with all the peripheral damage from my revelation which conflict with her own feelings and belief systems. And I wonder why she's not yet ready to say 'gee that great honey, I've married a crossdresser ...'

Mitch

[livy_m_b]

Perhaps a slightly different perspective:

My so was initially rejecting, finally accepting of my transgenderism. However, she made it clear that she had no interest in and was troubled by any thoughts that sex might be or might be imagined to be girl-on-girl. Frankly I wasn't interested in that either. I jokingly say "I'm hetero - when I'm a boy, I want a girl; when I'm a girl, I want a boy!" Try to get your neurons around that one! But, back to the point: I never expected her to accept me sexually as a woman, and conversely I wouldn't have liked it if she had shown up in bed with paste-on chest hair and strap-on penis. I like people to be what they are - and in her case it was very simple - she is a hetero woman who likes being with a normal, straight male. Our solution, such as it is, was to discontinue sexual relations. She found it too confusing to try to sort out when I was woman and when I was man, and frankly, it confused me too. Moreover, like some here, she found my feminine self easier to live with on a day to day basis, even though in earlier years we had had a very good male-female love and sex relationship. The end result seems to be heading in the direction of mostly two women sharing a home, separate bedrooms, etc. We're still working out the issues of physical affection - by which I mean hugging, kissing, etc., but do not mean sexual relations. It turns out that those are not trivial issues either - the ways two women show affection for each other are different from the way a man and a woman show affection for each other - so we proceed with care. After years of an intimate relationship, we have grown use to physical familiarity to just show affection, but those ways have to be adjusted too.

Back to LaFem's original post - like her, I had not told my so about my past cding before marriage - like some/many, I hoped that with a good marital relationship it would disappear. And it seemed to for a number of years. When it came back, it was initially distressing to her. My response was to back off. That process continued for about 20 years -approach/withdrawal. Finally, about 5 years ago, she consented to see me dressed and was struck by the fact that I appeared to make a very conventional looking woman of my age - she had always thought I would be an ugly woman she said, but in fact she thought I made a very attractive woman - remember I'm not talking about 20's model-types here, but about an older woman. Shortly after that, I went for my second round of gender counseling, and this particular counselor wanted a few sessions with my so. I have to say that the results of this counseling for my so were very positive. They (the counselor and my so) hit it off, and my so became more understanding than ever. Forward til today and our "good woman friends relationship with residual physical affection overtones" - I think we've been remarkably successful in this transition and I attribute this to two causes: my willingness to back off when it became too stressful for her; and her remarkable understanding. Both of those aspects arose from a deep love for each other which was love of the friendship kind that underlay even the good physical relationship we once had. Moral: Take it easy, allow each other room, allow each other to have dispositions/orientations/etc. that cannot be changed and others that can change only slowly, work towards an accomodation if possible, or at least toward a cooperative separation/divorce. Not everyone or every couple can achieve this (and therein is no disparagement of those who cannot - since they are just acting out their own fates as we are) but if you can, there is a nice place for you both at the ends of your lives.

[Wenda]

Excellent Thread, great posts! It's very easy to fall into the "poor, poor pitiful me" syndrome. My SO and I still don't live together, and sometimes I will ask if Wenda can come by for a visit later. When she is feeling healthy and strong, she usually welcomes Wenda. If she is feeling down or not well, she politely declines a visit, and I show up in male mode. I appreciate her acceptance and honesty, and she appreciates Wenda's consideration. Just plain old-fashioned being polite and considerate of others. Incredibly easy to overlook though! w

[LaFem]

Wow!

Thanks for all the honest and heartfelt replies to this thread. It seems that for some of us our feminine side is compassionate, understanding. and loving. I hope our SO's can agree.