View Full Version : Signals

Julie York
03-13-2005, 09:14 AM
Just something I am curious about. There are certain cliche signals that a lot of CDs adopt or enjoy because they ARE cliche signals of femininity. And most of them are obtainable by wearing something that gives off that signal, so just by dressing up you can sort of 'become' female.

For example:
Long hair.
Make-up lipstick etc.
Stockings, tights , high heeled shoes, breasts and so on....(it is a big list) They all relate directly to the visual signals given off by someone who is a female.

I was just wondering what the F t M guys saw as being typically cliche signals of masculinity. The only ones I can think of off hand are short hair and facial hair. Most others have been absorbed into female culture and are no longer definite male signals.

03-13-2005, 04:44 PM
You're right about that... I think it's mostly in the way that you wear the stuff though, from my perspective...
Like... a combination of styles. I don't know lol.
I've never really thought about it but yeah, it's true that many girls who aren't ftms wear typically mens' stuff.
I'll think about it. lol

Fallen Angel
03-13-2005, 06:17 PM
well you have asked a good one when im dressed as fem i have a very fem atitude. i find my self being more polite warm and understanding i think the female qaulities come out and we dont hide our amotions or feelings now on the other hand most females that reverse to a butchie side of there relation ship with there partner turn moore male as we are in a everyday kina way make any sence?

03-13-2005, 06:48 PM
Well, the one that springs to mind is the way men and women sit, especially on public transport. Women take up as little space as they can, legs together or crossed, hands in lap. Whereas men take up as much room as they can, legs spread wide, knees out, feet apart, arms spread along the back of the seat next to them. I assume it is a control/territory thing.

Mona x.

Julie York
03-13-2005, 07:09 PM
No, I meant visual signals rather than attitude or body language. Think of a photograph. What's wrong with this photo of a rugby player...He is wearing lipstick. Female signal.

What's wrong with this photo of a woman....well she has a beard. Male signal.

See? We have nothing left as males other than genetics. All the rest of cultural masculinity has been absorbed into female culture.

What's wrong with this photo of a woman...she is drinking a pint. So what.
She is smoking. So what.
She is wearing trousers. So what.
She has short hair. So what.
She rides a motorbike. So what.

03-13-2005, 07:22 PM
I think that you are right Julie, apart from obvious genetic differences, beard, Adam's apple, big hands, etc, there isn't much left that women can't wear and still be withing the bounds of normalcy. I am jealous of the freedom of expression that women have, but it must be kind of frustrating for F to M dressers trying to dress in a masculine fashion. Does this mean that they have to exaggerate the masculine body language and behaviour to appear more male?

Interesting stuff Hon,

Mona x.

03-13-2005, 07:35 PM
Yes, Mona. That's my problem. I want to be recognised as an FTM rather than just a girl. I would prefer being called a boy than a girl, but ideally I like to be recognised as an FTM.
I do have to slightly exaggerate male traits such as body language and stuff since I can't grow a beard lol. I don't make my exaggerations too obvious though, because that attracts attention which might be negative attention. I have to be very careful.

03-13-2005, 07:52 PM
You have my sympathies honey,

Just be a bit careful with the exaggerated male traits, you wouldn't want to end up as a F to M version of Little Britains Emily Howard!! :D

Mona xx.

03-13-2005, 08:12 PM
Cliche? Assuming you mean just "a signal" if you weren't paying much attention

Baseball cap on backwards
Football uniform
Flat chest (as opposed to breasts, ;) )
visible hairy arms or legs
toothpick between teeth
collar-up shirt with tie (not the fashionable kind)
men's watch (most obvious on a thin wrist)

Or maybe it's just me...

BTW, why is long hair still just a woman thing? Before I cut my hair again, my grandmother complained that I should raise my ponytail higher like the girls of my generation...

Julie York
03-14-2005, 12:28 PM
Yeah that's the idea Gabriel. Those are signals that can be worn (apart from the hairy arms!).

The problem Eddie has is trying to collect enough male signals to appear as a feminine man....rather than a masculine woman. But as there are so many things adopted by women, there is no visual double take unless there is something genetically male on display ...Sideburns, hairy arms etc. (it is a man you're looking at.).

A woman can wear a baseball cap back to front, have a flat chest and chew a tooth pick and wear a big watch, but she'll just look like a butch lesbian if she doesn't somehow give out a specific male signal that indicates something uniquely male.

And as we seem to agree....there aren't many uniquely male signals left that aren't genetic.

Rachel Ann
03-14-2005, 05:31 PM
... just by dressing up you can sort of 'become' female ... there aren't many uniquely male signals left that aren't genetic
For me, dressing is a means to an end. Dressing and makeup have so many steps that it’s a way of gradually “triggering” Rachel to come out. There are also fewer distinctly female signals – men can now wear some jewelry (including earrings) and some makeup. Btw I think that many MtFs err on the side of too large breasts, and many FtMs err on the side of too much crotch padding.

At the end of the day, I think that the biggest signals on both sides, after voice, are carriage (posture, walk, and body language), parlance (how you speak as opposed to how your voice sounds), additude, and "energy". Deference cuts both ways - women are more deferential than men about some things, but less so about others.

A GG friend recently asked me “why are you all so girly?”. My answer: “I can only speak for myself, but

1) I need all the camouflage I can get. You can go without makeup and still look feminine. I can’t.

2) I (Rick) am almost 60, but Rachel is about 19 – and a young 19 at that.”

I also love to *feel* feminine, and the girlier I get the more feminine I feel.

... Women take up as little space as they can ... Whereas men take up as much room as they can ...
That is a tendency, but you can’t generalize too much. I've always made myself as small as I could, although sometimes I'll put something on the seat next to me (as long as there are plenty of other seats).

In the urban zoo I live in, it seems to be that aggressive gangsta types (of all races) take up as much space as they can, while all others (of all genders) take up as little space as they can.

I am jealous of the freedom of expression that women have …
I think that’s a bone that society throws to women to make up for their otherwise second-class social and economic standing.

I know a lot of GGs who will dress in a way that, from a distance, they *might* be a man (long coat, hoodie, hiking boots) when going out at night to reduce their chances of being assaulted.

... why is long hair still just a woman thing? ...
Not where I live. Here you see lots of guys with long hair, sometimes in a ponytail, every day. Now styled hair is a woman thing, as is the “high ponytail” and, for the most part, bangs.

... I don't make my exaggerations too obvious though ... I have to be very careful.
Yes, we all do. Many of us find a GG and/or a more experienced MtF to show us the way - is there a GB (GM?) you know who would do that for you? Or a more experienced FtM?

Of course, part of the problem is that it's also a guy thing to not appear insecure, or to ask for help. :p

03-14-2005, 08:35 PM
Well I have two good guy friends, plus my brother, but the one guy friend, Anth, who would be more likely to help me out, is gay and has that stereotypical "gay" way of doing things lol.
However, as a gay boy I do wonder if I should act more "gay". On the one hand I think I should, but on the other hand it's not natural and I don't want to put on a facade.
My girlfriend's no help either because even when she was living as a guy fulltime she says she wasn't any good at it. lol

Rachel Ann
03-14-2005, 10:57 PM
Well I have two good guy friends, plus my brother, but the one guy friend, Anth, who would be more likely to help me out, is gay and has that stereotypical "gay" way of doing things lol. ... However, as a gay boy I do wonder if I should act more "gay".Well, it's good to know that you are not without resources! Gay men typically don't act like women, they act like men. Half the time I don't know whether a man I'm interacting with is gay or straight.

The "carriage" part is tricky for both of us because men's and women's body mass is distributed differently.

Good luck with this. :)

03-15-2005, 11:37 AM
I know what makes me feel more masculine and I know what to do in order to pass. While guys may not have a ton of signals left anymore, I find myself doing a lot of the more old fashioned stuff. I rock sideburns and super short hair. There is absolutely nothing feminine about the way I walk or sit. I've let the hair on my body grow and refuse to shave it...except for my "area". I've worked on my deep voice over the years and I must say it's pretty damn swell. It comes completely natural now. Due to having a small foot, I have gotten huge boots with added padding to not only make my foot very comfortable inside my boots but to add height for my short ass. I workout for more upper body strength and for muscles. My hands are completely rough due to work and not puttin' lotion on like I should. I spit a lot and I do a lot of disgusting 5 year old boy things like roughhouse, pick on girls, do things that would get any kid into trouble.

03-15-2005, 11:42 PM
wow, xsideburnsx, seems like you're on a roll!
Kinda inspires me and encourages me on when I hear stuff like that. ^^;
Yeah, I don't shave my legs or arms either. I might every 8 months to a year, but that's about it. Takes too much time and effort if you ask me.

03-16-2005, 01:08 AM
Thanks. :) I have to be on a role. I live my everyday life as a male and have been for the past 9 years. I haven't gotten on T yet like I thought I would have by now. I'm just terrified of the side effects of taking it. I'll have to do more extensive research on it before I go get shots. And yes, shaving is a total pain in the ass. I think the only time I shave is when I'm going to be admitted into a hospital. I don't want to be remembered as some hairy woman that the ER staff talks about. And out of curiousity...what part of oklahoma do you hail from?

03-17-2005, 01:37 AM
Im from Broken Arrow. Pretty decently sized town, with the worst school systems on earth. But what can I say? *shrugs*
Yeah, only place I shave are under my arms every two to three weeks, and down below right before I hit that time of the month. (Gets a bit messy then. ><; Yeah, gross, I know. Wish I could fix the problem, but it's not that easy. But im sure you know about that. lol.)
Only thing im afraid of about T are the side effects, getting REALLY hairy, and having a needle shoved into my thigh every two weeks. I hate shots. I usually hurt in that area for a week and a half after getting one every time. Anyways, where are you located?

03-17-2005, 03:29 AM
broken arrow? Is that near tulsa? As for me, I cannot stay put in one place for too long. I have family in okc that I stay with on occassion, but i live in dallas. i hardly ever shave under my arms, unless my girlfriend gets in my face about it. I keep myself trimmed down under. I don't want to let that area get all crazy like either. And yes, I'd like to rid myself of that disgusting problem too haha. I've almost mentioned to my father about me taking T. Not sure how he would take it, but my brother and sister are completely shocked about it. Not that they should be cause they know how I am already.

03-17-2005, 10:00 PM
yeah, Broken Arrow is right next to Tulsa. Dallas eh? Been down there just last summer! Can't say I liked it tho. ^^; Traffic is horrible down there. I thought I was going to die in some traffic accident! But, I must admit, it's very pretty down there. Lots of decor everywhere, unlike here in BA.

04-01-2005, 09:11 PM
I had my hair cut short but it's still not really ultra short, at least not at the moment anyway, I've let it grow out again a bit. I suppose my male behaviour only runs to hanging out with a lot of guys, being lewd, swearing a lot, playing golf, wearing guy's clothes, drinking pints and pints of Guiness (people always say to me "I've never seen a girl drink Guiness" :confused: bet they have on Paddy's day but still) playing pool a lot and smoking... thing is, all of those things are just as easily interpreted as being characteristic of tomboy-ish girls and lesbians too :( Oh well... at least it makes me feel the part!

04-02-2005, 12:24 AM
Well I have two good guy friends, plus my brother, but the one guy friend, Anth, who would be more likely to help me out, is gay and has that stereotypical "gay" way of doing things lol.
However, as a gay boy I do wonder if I should act more "gay". On the one hand I think I should, but on the other hand it's not natural and I don't want to put on a facade.
My girlfriend's no help either because even when she was living as a guy fulltime she says she wasn't any good at it. lol

-_-; ohhh... good subject. Im told by my sister that I sometimes act like a gay guy without realizing it. >< I love it! Music to my ears! But at the same time... I sorta want to just act like a normal guy... The two wants are ripping me apart!!
My cousin is gay, but no help, since she's a les and a girly les at that.

Katie Ashe
05-04-2005, 01:36 PM
A few things that I find different are: Slouch when sitting, legs open (I mean take up the whole damn seat), facial hair (six o'clock shadow), hair lenght is not that important anymore; but not like you just got a perm, (washed and towel dry only), walking is important (girls roll their hips guy ussaully don't :confused: ), girls talk with there hands more than guys, no touching the other guy (girls tend to touch each other sometimes during good convo's), dressing is up to you (dark colors are always safe), eye contact (don't check out the other dude, not good for your health), women don't need to change voice as drastically as a male CD'er, guys don't have an attention to detail that women do (don't be obviosly nervous or gittery, relax). Crap, I think I just figured out what I've beed doing wrong (all the ABOVE) :D Look I hope this helps you somehow. Just be relaxed and try to be natural. It is possible to pass with a little effort, At least I think so. :o

Loves, Katie