visual perception ...

[valery]

As a new member here posting his first thread and still have to become familiar with this forum, first of all I have to say that I'm not a native speaker, so if anything sounds ambiguous or strange please give me a hint.


visual perception ...

... what is your experience in getting a picture of someone (to perceive so. as sth.) I mean your visual perception, also of yourself.
Are you able to change, keep or control those pictures?
Are you able to put yourself into a neutral position somehow - I mean like kids do, you know - and be able to see someone as boy, girl or inbetween whatever he/she/it was at birth.

If you see (meet) someone for the first time without having any information about this person you will make (paint) your own picture based on your personal experiences, preferences and dislikes, education and values.
If you get specific information about that person by someone elso before your picture will be totally different and you might not longer (never???) be able to paint it by yourself. I think it's the same thing with strong education and other influences - like friends and family and I think I'm fighting against those influences, being afraid that some of them never go away.

My idea and my biggest dream is that it should count what someone does not what he is, or how he dresses and if I like him/her/it, it shouldn't count whatever he was at birth - But my visual sense, that is very sensible and strong, is not error-free as I had to find out several times concerning to the things I wrote above and below.

Here is one of my experinces (3 years ago) to give a better idea.

I was at the airport on my way to the check in. A fantastic looking girl walks in front of me - unbelievable feminine walk, I was round about 7 meters behind her and so I couldn't see her face - only the silhouette for a short moment. She was getting already on the airplane, as I still was in the waiting line. So I prayed, please, please let me sit next to her. To my suprise she was sitting in the row in front of me and then I could also see her face (lovely). Not until my third or fourth view I'd realise the five o'clock shadow and then it became strange.

On one hand my picture of her changed in that moment - my brain was doing this automaticly and assumed all control over itself. I did realize, but couldn't get the control (picture) back - like a innocent bystander watching himself doing something stupid.
On the other hand I was irritated and fascinated and became absolutely nervous at the same time. I mean I'm a crossdresser myself who is not going out in public and there she was - that was the very first time for me that I was so close to a crossdresser (maybe transsexual, I didn't find out) who is fully himself in public, self-assured. It was so cool to see how she handled the sitiuation with the stewardess and other people staring at her.

She wasn't what I thought, o.k., but she was a fantastic looking beauty. So the rest of the flight I was thinking about that. I hated myself and tried to get my first picture of her back and fortunately it came back the next day and it also stayed, but I was still confused and unhappy about this day before.

So I started to work on this. I took pictures of world-famous models (male and female) from different magazines. Most people have male and femal aspects, everybody knows. As example many femal-top-models have male eyes. I looked over them intensive and tried to get the same effect on those photos like I had on the airplaine. After a while it worked and I could change this pictures but only for a short moment - it was very exhausting and not stable. Am I too much visual assessed? For myself I don't even need to wear a dress or lingerie to feel the girl inside of me - and the picture of myself is neutral (inbetween).


Does anybody has similar experinces and how do you handle it, does it make any sense to you? :sad:

[sterling12]

So if I understand you correctly, you were "bummed out," because your dreamgirl turned out to be someone with a beard shadow? Even though your CD yourself.....Hmmm!

OK, let's try a little game. Perhaps you had actually sat next to her on the plane, perhaps you struck up a conversation, and one thing led to another. Perhaps you started dating and you fell in love with her.

Then...because she's falling for you, she decides to "come clean," and tell you her secret. Is she still the same person? Are you still in love with her?

Visually positive cues are nice, and it's always pleasant to look upon beauty. But, real beauty doesn't reside on the outer shell. You would have to decide if you were still in love with that inner person. There isn't a right answer for each individual, it's just how we feel. Personally, I try to accept people for what they are, and what they would like me to believe about them.

Could I fall in love with a transwoman? Probably, but I haven't had to deal with that situation. Guess we could all stand some self-examination on a subject like this.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Marla S]

Thought-provoking.


Starting from the end.


Does anybody has similar experinces and how do you handle it, does it make any sense to you?

I don't know if I understand you correctly.

How to handle it ?
I try to be open minded, scrutinize the "obvious", and try to leave things open that can't be answered right now. The latter tends towards suspiciousness.



visual perception ...

... what is your experience in getting a picture of someone (to perceive so. as sth.) I mean your visual perception, also of yourself.
Are you able to change, keep or control those pictures?
@changing: Yes, I think I am able to.
@keeping: I don't want to keep it, if it is a wrong picture.
@controling: Kind of. I tend to challange things, if they bug me, are too stereotypical, or seem to be too obvious.


Are you able to put yourself into a neutral position somehow - I mean like kids do, you know - and be able to see someone as boy, girl or inbetween whatever he/she/it was at birth.
Yes, once in a while when something happens that makes a change or the perception neessary or appropriate.


If you see (meet) someone for the first time without having any information about this person you will make (paint) your own picture based on your personal experiences, preferences and dislikes, education and values.
If you get specific information about that person by someone elso before your picture will be totally different and you might not longer (never???) be able to paint it by yourself. I think it's the same thing with strong education and other influences - like friends and family and I think I'm fighting against those influences, being afraid that some of them never go away.
I don't think it is painting a picture, it's setting up a story.
A story that is based on associations, which depend on your experience of life and dreams, if you have no further information than the visual one.

The majority of associations though is not based on own experiences, but on stories others told us (parents, teachers, TV, books, etc, society in general).
Here is the point where I usually start to scrutinize the "obvious" and quite often things become more subtle.

Life is a big PR maschine: Producing pictures that have stories associated.
Point is not to buy in associations that others want you to be produced, but those that are based on your own expriences and thoughts (tricky part).
A thing that has to be kept in mind is that the same result can have different causes and the same cause can have different results. Hence there is usually not the one correct, general association.


My idea and my biggest dream is that it should count what someone does not what he is, or how he dresses and if I like him/her/it, it shouldn't count whatever he was at birth - But my visual sense, that is very sensible and strong, is not error-free as I had to find out several times concerning to the things I wrote above and below.

It always will be a blend of picture and story.
They need to be balanced though.

[valery]

Dear sterling12

thanks for your replie :happy:


OK, let's try a little game. Perhaps you had actually sat next to her on the plane, perhaps you struck up a conversation, and one thing led to another. Perhaps you started dating and you fell in love with her. Then...because she's falling for you, she decides to "come clean," and tell you her secret. Is she still the same person? Are you still in love with her?

that's exactly what I worry about, and not because of her gender >she still would be the same person<, but the fear that my brain would crop my sense, so that I would not be able to get my first picture of her back.

I would say I was thrilled and totally stumped and there wasn't a negativ touch in that - not in the slightest. So I would say "not ready for the journey" as I never had been in a sitiuation like this before. When my picture of her changed, like I had a false perception before, I was angry about that and that's exactly the point. The first picture of her was as true as the seccond one, so why was my brain trying to refuse access to the first one. The seccond view wasn't a problem for me, I'm a CD by myself. The problem was to get my beloved first picture of her back into my head and not to loose it.

Let me try to say it in a different way. Most people only see the negative and not the positiv when they look into the mirror. So it's even hard to get a right picture of yourself.
Same thing with other sitiuations. When you live in a place for a long time, can you still see your first picture of it? Why does it seems not to be possible to have both pictures - or is anybody here able to have both pictures at the same time and to swap between them?

That all doesn't mean that I only want to see what I like or what I want, no, I don't wanna crop myself. But I don't want my brain to hide or deny access. I mean as a CD I try to highlight the girl in me, but when I look into the mirror I can still see the guy, what is quite normal as I know myself a long time as a guy and I'm still a guy in public.
But if I see a girl that I dont't know and then later it turns out that she is (or was) a guy, why is my picture turning into a different one and my head trying to replace the first one with it? Is it my education or the fear of this unknown sitiuation? With my cute little test (model-pictures) it was the other way around. The first picture stayed and the seccond one wasn't so stable.

I will keep on doing my work with it