To speak or not to speak?

[marisa]

I don't normally start new threads but I have a question. And this is open to everyone here. Who has a hard time NOT saying anything when you over hear a conversation by non-cd/ts people when they are clearly un-informed or don't care how they make us apprear? I have in the past, had a really hard time with this. Like just the other night, someone I know, was going on and on about our prison system paying for SRS for an inmate. I tried my best to stay out of the conversation, but I listened closely. Then he started making jokes about going out to a bar, getting all hammered up and taking a girl home and finding something a little extra down below. Then said he could tell if someone had had a "sex change" and so on and so on. I couldn't help myself but I kept my comments to a min. I asked him how he could tell if srs has been done? His answer was all ya gotta do is look for the adam's apple. So I ask him what if the adam's apple had been shaved off. He didn't like my questions and tried to start joking about how I knew so much about this stuff. Then he started going on about how he didn't understand why a guy would have srs. I did open my mouth. All I said was that some times someone's brain does not match their body. And I left it at that. I don't know if this was the right way to have dealt with this but it shut him up. All comments are welcomed. Marisa

[KandisTX]

For myself, it would truly depend on the location and atmosphere in which the conversation was taking place. I have often times opened my mouth to correct some ignorant person for their incorrect misconceptions of the transgendered, typical assumptions of CDs are all gay drag queens, that type stuff. Of course, this has not happened in a while but when it does, I feel compelled to correct them or at least guide them to the correct answers to fix their ignorance.

Kandis:love:

[Marla S]

Well, theoretically it would be good to educate those people.

Practically, there are people that are education-resistant.

If your comments shut him up, you achieved something. Probably, all that could be achieved.

In general I think it depends a lot on the people and the situation.
Sometimes it is wise to say nothing, sometimes it is wise to argue.

I think you did right in this situation.

[livy_m_b]

When it happens, I try to come up with a statement that neutralizes the discussion, that is, that makes the person or the bystanders realize that there is more to the issue than the simplistic pov that is being presented. I might bring up some of the research done on birds and mice to show that it is a developmental effect, or bring up the study done in Italy that found about 30 percent of homosexuals (yes, I know - a different issue) were later-born sons of multiparous females, etc. Changing the level at which the conversation is occurring is a good approach.

[Di]

Oh I hate when that happens...overhearing an uninformed and ignorant person spouting nonsense.:Angry3:

In speaking out...it would depend on your safety.....do you work with them......are they so called friends...can they make trouble for you with say family or work ect............in the past...I would correct the person on the spot............but now there are other considerations like family and work of my partner............and I have also learned that people that are so narrow minded...no matter what you say it would not sink in.....you handled it perfectly.:hugs:

[Stephenie S]

You know, I think it depends on the situation. If you work or play with these people and you think it might make a difference I probably would speak up. But as was mentioned above, Some people are too ignorant to be educated and some people just don't WANT to be educated. With those, you are most likely just wasting your time.

If you want to say something, your could probably say something like, "I just read an article in Time, or Newsweek, or whatever, and it turns out that most CDers are really married and not gay at all", yada, yada, yada . . . . or whatever point you want to make. This removes the subject from you, and provides a bit of authority to back you up.

JMHO. In general, I like to speak up when I feel I can make a difference. Most of my co-workers are college educated and perhaps are a bit more open minded than others you may run into.

I might not press the issue in a redneck bar on Friday night.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Babette]

When some friends came over last year, they were bursting to tell us about a "strange gathering of crossdressers" they had encountered while traveling. Keep in mind, they don't know about me (Babette) as they detailed their amazement.

I have to confess when opportunity presents itself, Babette turns evil. The more they raved, the more I fanned the flames with, "Do tell. Wow! Tell me more! You got to be kidding? Can you imagine that? How dare these people!" In the mean time, my dear wife, who knows everything about Babette, is changing shades of red and purple quicker than my worn-out computer monitor. Oh such fun, such fun, such fun!

Well the fun continued until a searing pain in my back changed the subject. Let me tell you, that lady can pinch! I'm not much on tattoos, but I sported big blue one on my back for quite a while. People at the pool asked about it often. I told them it was a picture of my wife's thumb and index finger.

If someone told me that all crossdressers could be identified by their Adam's apple, I would have to show them my skinny little neck. Geezz I always wanted an Adam's apple when I was a teenager. I guess I will never measure up to Marisa's acquaintance.

Life it too short to waste on anything but laughter.

Take care.

Babette

[Darla in Pa.]

As hard as it would be for me to keep my mouth shut I would have, but would fume for days, for not saying something. That situation is a no win I think, no one else was probably paying attention we seem to zoom in on things that concern us but doesn't we just blow it off as idle chatter.


Darla

[Tamara Croft]

I think you did the right thing, people need educating instead of listening to societies bs... if we can't correct them, who can?

[Dita_B]

I agree with the stance of Marla and others above that you can't argue with a person that doesn't want to listen.

Everyone will eventually find their own way to enlightenment. They will seek for it when they are ready. It is not up to you or me to force our opinions up to them. They have the right to make their own mistakes.

So IMHO you should not have interfered.

:love:Dita.

[Tamara Croft]

So IMHO you should not have interfered. How do people learn if we don't educate them? It's not about pushing anything on to a person, it's about giving them correct information. If a child gets something wrong at school and isn't corrected, who will teach them the right way in life? You can't just wait for them to figure things out, it won't happen... If I hear anyone speaking badly about the TG community, I correct them, sometimes they ask how I know so much and I tell them, I have many TG friends, who need support, encouragement etc...

[Billijo49504]

To a lot of ppl, their only experience with CD/TS ppl is on the Jerry Springer Show....BJ

[Tamara Croft]

To a lot of ppl, their only experience with CD/TS ppl is on the Jerry Springer Show....BJThat is an American show though, I'm not American, I'm British... and we all know over here that that show is full of BS ;)

[Billijo49504]

So you had Benny Hill!!!BJ

[Kimberley]

Unfortunately you are absolutely right Tamara. It is BS. As my son said, you have to learn to speak Trailer Park to get a handle on it. The real problem is that a lot of people actually believe this crap and like it or not, there are too many to educate even if they were listening.

There are other situations in the US media as well who are just as guilty. Hon, I think that Europe is years ahead of this side of the pond.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Sheri 4242]

How do people learn if we don't educate them? It's not about pushing anything on to a person, it's about giving them correct information. If a child gets something wrong at school and isn't corrected, who will teach them the right way in life? You can't just wait for them to figure things out, it won't happen... If I hear anyone speaking badly about the TG community, I correct them, sometimes they ask how I know so much and I tell them, I have many TG friends, who need support, encouragement etc...

You are absolutely right!!! I often try to look at it this way: we just need to plant the seeds (IOW the correct information). If we are lucky, we may get to be there for the havest (IOW, when the light bulb finally clicks), but often we won't be there for that. Conversley, often times when we are there for the harvest, it isn't entirely of our own doing -- someone else may have planted the seed long ago and we are just fortunate enough to bring things to fruation. This is why we all need to be proactive (notice I said proactive, not confrontational -- IOW, we are the educators, subtly working for truth).

As an analogy, I recall this minister who was always bragging on how many people he brought to his faith -- bragging non-stop until it was pointed out to him how literally dozens upon dozens of other people had worked diligently to get these people to his church. He was more than a little humbled that day b/c he clearly saw that without others doing the planting, he would not have had the large crop to harvest.

So, if I plant a seed with a bunch of people who are displaying that they are "educated beyond their intelligence" and who are "making ignorance audible," I have done good . . . and who knows where it will lead -- maybe next week, or next year that exact same person will be parroting to a crowd, and someone else -- Di, or Sher, or Karen, or Tamara, or Louise, or any one of us -- will step up to the plate and say something and the harvest will be brought in!!!

[Tamara Croft]

So you had Benny Hill!!!BJWhat has Benny Hill got to do with Jerry Springer? You can't even compare... Benny Hill was a classic comedian... Jerry Springer is an idiot.... his show isn't even funny... and we all know that his shows are all faked... how people can believe it, let alone watch it is beyond comprehension.

Television isn't going to do anything for our cause, only we can do that... educating those that have been manipulated by the media into thinking there is something wrong with the transgendered is something we have to fix... not by listening to some crackpot on the TV, who let's face it, is a complete a$$hole...

[Billijo49504]

I agree with you to a point, that Jerry Springer is aanti christ for the cd movement. But you must admit that Benny Hill is really degrading of women. Or can't you accept the truth. It is ment as humor, but many American women think it's degrading of them. So which is worse, a pervert or a bigot?BJ

[marisa]

I did not approch that conversation with an I'm gonna argue with you attitude. This guy is an a@#$*le in my opion. Mind you I think most guys are that way too on average. But thats just me. Ok, maby I could have handled it better than I did but thats just the way it came out. I don't believe my comments were rude or degrading towards cd's/tg/ts. I would and will stand up for anybody that is being made fun of just because of being who they are. But with this group that was involved I had to be carefull. Outside of here and the kingston spring fling there is only two people that know about me. And their not part of this crowd. I don't know every thing about cd/tg/ts people and will never say I do. But I have picked up some info along the way. Even if we can get through to one person, then the world just got a tiny bit better. Time and patience will tell.

[Tamara Croft]

I agree with you to a point, that Jerry Springer is aanti christ for the cd movement. But you must admit that Benny Hill is really degrading of women. Or can't you accept the truth. It is ment as humor, but many American women think it's degrading of them. So which is worse, a pervert or a bigot?BJNo I don't agree and I think you've mixed up Benny Hill with someone else. Benny Hill has been dead since 1992, his show was funny, but then again he was British, maybe Americans do not understand the British humour.

Benny Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hill)

[Billijo49504]

Ki8nda one sided humor. His shows were on here last year. Oh well, I don't know what I'm talking about and you do...BJ

[Ashley Lynn Swift]

I might not press the issue in a redneck bar on Friday night.

Lovies,
Stephenie

i have to agree with you stephenie their are times where its pointless to push the issue, i had one of thoughs tonight at work, it was after the floor had been cut and eveybody that wasn't closing was finishing the silverware, me and these two gg's we're talking about the whole cd-issue b/c the last table i had was a group of cders, and we were kind of talking about how rude and disrepectful the host a(16boy) had been to them and i couldn't help but getting passionate about it b/c i do consider myself a TG myself who's finally being honest w/herself, he came up after being yelled at by the manager when they complained, and said "I don't understand what the big deal is their just freaks". at that point i couldn't keep quite i had to say two the other girls who could read me like an open book and could just tell, of curse you don't realize that i'm actually a TG. his mouth just drop, like he'd just been kicked in the nuts

[crusadergirl]

I think it is the right thing to speak up on this subject thinking like i can't change how ppl think will get you nowhere. Theres nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in. What you tell ppl it sticks with them for there whole life, believe me they will come around when they start to understand what you were talking about. Ppl remember what they were told atlest the things that will help them be a better person. Don't give up on telling ppl what you know of this subject. If you say nothin then nothin will change and ppl will still think of us the same way they always did.

[Billijo49504]

That's why I point out that the CD'ers that are on the Springer show are nothing like real ppl. That CD'ers are real ppl that have feeling that are stepped on, by the masses. That they are real ppl that need understanding instead of ridacule. Before you knew I was a CD'er, I was a nice guy, what changed??????? BJ

[Lilith Moon]

That is an American show though, I'm not American, I'm British... and we all know over here that that show is full of BS ;)

We have the Daily Mail and the Daily Express instead. :(

[angelfire]

Personally, I ALWAYS jump in and correct someone if they say something inaccurate about it. If they ask why I know so much about it, I took human sexuality at college and passed with a 98%. I'd say that gives me an excuse to know without giving myself away.

[Dita_B]

There is a big difference between interfering when a person is under attack and obviously can't defend herself, and interfering while just overhearing a discussion in which one self is not involved.

In the first case I would interfere and immediately as I find that no one has the right to do harm to a fellow human being when unprovoked.

In the second case, while just overhearing a discussion among others, in which discussion one self is NOT involved, whether or not the subject is offending to us, IMHO it is absolutely inappropriate to interfere.

The point in my earlier post was that one is what one's beliefs are. It is useless to argue with a person that refuses to listen. Once you have that person's attention you can try to make your point. However, one's beliefs are very strong and it is extremely difficult to enlighten a person about his or her beliefs. Aside from the fact that each and every person is entitled to his/her own opinions. IMHO in light of the above, the scene as described in the original post, was not the place and time to interfere.

The argument of comparing this situation with a school environment is not correct, as in school the person is there in a place of learning, and instructing and correcting is what is expected to occur there. Which was not the case in the scenario we are talking about...

So I still maintain that in the scenario as described in the original post, interfering was NOT appropriate.

BTW: I always thought Jerry Springer to be a jerk too and his show a farce feeding off the lower emotional levels of an uneducated public... However lately I watched him acting as a co-host on one of those talent shows and I changed my mind about him. (Not about his show). He came across there as a very compassionate and empathetic person. He was a real support for the candidates and he looked like he was emotionally involved in the results of their performance. He was happy for them when they graduated and consoled them when they were refused. I really liked him there and the way he portraited himself. So perhaps we should realize before making a judgment, that Jerry is in the show bizz, it is where he earns a living. And a show he is able to cook up, whether we agree with the content or not.



With love to all you passionate beautiful people...:love:Dita

[Toyah]

I supose I am in the minority but see so many one sided and totally biased threads that we should be looking a lot closer for acceptance. The anti everything they dont like brigade kick their asses

[Mitch23]

I don't normally start new threads but I have a question. And this is open to everyone here. Who has a hard time NOT saying anything when you over hear a conversation by non-cd/ts people when they are clearly un-informed or don't care how they make us apprear? I have in the past, had a really hard time with this. Like just the other night, someone I know, was going on and on about our prison system paying for SRS for an inmate. I tried my best to stay out of the conversation, but I listened closely. Then he started making jokes about going out to a bar, getting all hammered up and taking a girl home and finding something a little extra down below. Then said he could tell if someone had had a "sex change" and so on and so on. I couldn't help myself but I kept my comments to a min. I asked him how he could tell if srs has been done? His answer was all ya gotta do is look for the adam's apple. So I ask him what if the adam's apple had been shaved off. He didn't like my questions and tried to start joking about how I knew so much about this stuff. Then he started going on about how he didn't understand why a guy would have srs. I did open my mouth. All I said was that some times someone's brain does not match their body. And I left it at that. I don't know if this was the right way to have dealt with this but it shut him up. All comments are welcomed. Marisa
Unfortunately the world is full of ignorant and bigoted people. Whatever the subject they have an opinion on it and nothing you can do or say is going to make any difference. I know because I'm the worst ....

Mitch

[christianna]

I had this really long response but it got lost.. so this is all i have to say now: as a GG admirer of CDs I think that you have to stand up for yourselves more. and come out more. Nothing is going to change until you do.
And the guy that got the pinch... good for your wife! The only thing worse than not standing up for yourself is encouraging people to knock others like you.

[Ashley Lynn Swift]

I had this really long response but it got lost.. so this is all i have to say now: as a GG admirer of CDs I think that you have to stand up for yourselves more. and come out more. Nothing is going to change until you do.
And the guy that got the pinch... good for your wife! The only thing worse than not standing up for yourself is encouraging people to knock others like you.

nicely put Christianna, that why I love GG's like you, who know where i'd be today as a women if i had a GG like you, who know's maybe i would have even came out to my family already don't really know, i've just had the bad GG's who just Freak out and left when they found out which only push me farthur in the closet, but still you have to stand up for what you beleave in, and even for other people to, its the only way that as people we are going to move forward is to eduicate people on the issues (exspecially here in americia) where its still considered to be morally wrong and sick, just b/c we're Cd/Tv/Tg/Ts doesn't mean we don't have the same rights as everybody else

[crusadergirl]

Nothing you do are say will ever change what they think is a total load of you know what. We shouldn't keep saying stuff like that, you don't really know if they will change your just saying that b/c your scared someone will find out you dress as a girl. It looks like i stand alone on this, but for once i would like someone to stand up and stop worrying about what ppl will think of you.

[marisa]

I fully realize that everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs and opions. I mean, say I believe one thing and someone else believes something totally oppisite. Ya know what, thats fine, keep it to your self. Have alittle respect because some POV's can hurt or upset others. Especialy if it is meant in a degrading way. Regardless if a conversation is over heard or taken part in, false info or just ignorant words being used, should try to be corrected. Discussions are a great tool when used properly. Please forgive my spelling tonight, I've had almost 2 hrs sleep since yesterday morning. With this typed out, I am going to bed. Night all.