Safe place.... or not?

[Tristan]

I admit when I first came a part of the ftm community on the boards here I felt safe posting on ftm issues out in the open. Lately, I find that I do not feel safe any longer to share much outside of the clubhouse. I feel like when I am posting in our ftm section about issues with being trans and etc I have to keep this thick guard up that I keep up around me all day long, because of the insensitive people that post in here. That may refer to us as females, question why we would ever want to be males, or worst yet insinuate that we have it so easy being ftm. I don't think it's a matter of who struggles more, we all struggle. We all walk this journey, some of us cds, some of us trans, etc, we all face society's judgment and pressure to be what they expect. I do not consider my periods a pleasure, I don't like to look down and see my chest. I don't consider being a woman wonderful. But I understand that is because I was programmed male, and to me it's like I woke up in the wrong body and that's where my discomfort comes from. So I can understand why a mtf trans person would feel that same discomfort about what they have and what they are lack, but I would never dare to call them lucky for having the body I so desire, because that pain is just real as my own. To those that visit this section and are supportive, thank you for your understanding and your support.

[CaptLex]

Well said, Trist. :clap: And judging from the large amount of posts in the Clubhouse recently, and the minimal amount of posts here and elsewhere on the forum by FtMs, I know you're not alone. It's sad, really. We had gotten to a point where the boys were getting respect and feeling included, and now things seem to be slipping downhill again.

I don't know why the change - maybe it's the large number of newbies on this site daily. People that probably don't know we exist and have no idea how to relate to us. But it's frustrating to have to keep explaining ourselves and to have to keep asking for courtesy and respect. It gets old and tiresome real fast. I understand why many of the guys have given up and decided to just stick to our safe haven here - the Clubhouse.

I know we're in the minority here and greatly outnumbered, but there's no good reason why we shouldn't feel that this is our place too. There was a time that FtMs were very scarce around here and I'd hate to see that happen again. :sad:

[Charleen]

:hugs:Hi Tristan. To quote Bill Clinton, I feel your pain. There are insensitive people everywhere unfortunately. I will never understand why some need to make the comments that you mentioned. I guess they don't get it and never will.:rolleyes:
I also don't know what the answer is. This has come up before. Probably will again as we get new people all the time. Maybe the only thing to do is use the alert icon and bring the offending post to the mods attention. It's the old saying: A few bad apples spoil the bunch.
I agree whole heartedly with your entire post. It IS a struggle for those of us who know we have the wrong body! Maybe that's it though, the ones that don't have that struggle can't understand. They are content with the body they have, and only see the superficial aspects, i.e. the clothes and the look, and can not understand the pain we have looking in the mirror. we can't fault them for their lack of understanding, but we can fault them for their insensitivity. I try to live by something told to me years ago- It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as ignorant than to open it and confirm it!
Hang in there guy. :love::hugs: Love and xxxx, Lily
P.S. Cap, We do have to keep repeating ourselves constantly here on every subject. As newbees come on board, the things we have shared have to be shared again. Tiresome? Oh yeah. Need to be done? Yes again. Whether it's about our journey, or board etiquette.

[kerrianna]

Yeah, it's sad Tristan. I noticed you guys were hiding out there. I could hear you muttering, cursing, belching and laughing... but I couldn't see you guys out and about much.

Of course, I haven't been around much myself, for various reasons, so I hadn't even seen your avatar.

WOW! You are looking so handsome dude! I know there's a guy in NJ who must just be drooling. :happy:

It is a big sprawling site with a lot of new people, so one would just hope that anyone visiting you guys would show some respect and if they can't say anything nice then not say anything at all.

So folks, if you don't get what being TG or TS is about that's okay. You can learn a lot just by reading and watching.

[Daintre]

Hi Tristan, I don't usually come in here, not that I feel unwelcome, but I respect your privacy, if I see a thread that I might benefit from then I will have a look. I am very disappointed after reading your post, you and the guys should feel as much at home here as the rest and I am sorry that you do not. As the Capt said, it was looking good for a while, the guys were posting more and a few even made it to the Lounge, the positiveness seems to have diminished lately.

What Lily said is very true, we are getting a lot of new members and it takes time for them to get up to speed and realize that there is far more going on here than dressing issues. I am an MtoF transsexual, I do find it difficult at times to be open, so I have an idea what you are saying. If you can guy, stick with it, there is support out there.

[boi_0h]

with the above being said (which i agree that it needed to be and i also hope things get better) would it be beneficial for a sort of fact sheet or the like to be stickied to the boards explaining TS/TG or at least requesting the respect deserved to everyone on the boards?

[ZenFrost]

Maybe to put this into perspective...

Last I checked there are over 18,300 Members on this site, and over 6,900 of which are active. Out of those members, 44 are FtM, not all of whom are active. 40/6900=0.5% That's not a lot.

The thing is, we do appreciate input from the MtFs and GGs on this site. And we do like it when you make an effort to visit the FtM boards and post on our threads. But the thing we've been having trouble with lately is the few people who don't get it.

(please forgive the metaphor but...) We FtMs are a rare species. When we feel provoked we retreat to safer territory (the Clubhouse). It only takes a few people with sharp poking sticks (words) to send us into hiding. We'd like to participate in other aspects of the site (including the FtM section), but we feel like we're walking in unknown and dangerous territory because a little insensitivity goes a long way.

[Cai]

Last I checked there are over 18,300 Members on this site, and over 6,900 of which are active. Out of those members, 44 are FtM, not all of whom are active. 40/6900=0.5% That's not a lot.


Maybe we need to make ourselves felt more, then. If we gently but firmly remind everyone who makes an insensitive comment how we want to be treated, instead of running to the Clubhouse for cover, maybe some of the comments would stop.

We probably should let ourselves out of the FtM boards sometimes too. I know I'm as bad as anyone else for not going and playing in the Lounge, but I will go post on the TS and MtF boards if I feel like I have anything to say.

[SL]

I admit when I first came a part of the ftm community on the boards here I felt safe posting on ftm issues out in the open. Lately, I find that I do not feel safe any longer to share much outside of the clubhouse. I feel like when I am posting in our ftm section about issues with being trans and etc I have to keep this thick guard up that I keep up around me all day long, because of the insensitive people that post in here. That may refer to us as females, question why we would ever want to be males, or worst yet insinuate that we have it so easy being ftm. I don't think it's a matter of who struggles more, we all struggle. We all walk this journey, some of us cds, some of us trans, etc, we all face society's judgment and pressure to be what they expect. I do not consider my periods a pleasure, I don't like to look down and see my chest. I don't consider being a woman wonderful. But I understand that is because I was programmed male, and to me it's like I woke up in the wrong body and that's where my discomfort comes from. So I can understand why a mtf trans person would feel that same discomfort about what they have and what they are lack, but I would never dare to call them lucky for having the body I so desire, because that pain is just real as my own. To those that visit this section and are supportive, thank you for your understanding and your support.

Perfectly stated.

And as Lex mentioned:

.....the large amount of posts in the Clubhouse recently, and the minimal amount of posts here....

Reaction in the clubhouse was "off the chain", to use an American expression. Meaning, virtually instantaneous and very vocal. The difference in posting in the two areas is a sad but accurate reflection of how much comfort may not be being felt by FtMs. I for one almost had an aneurysm when I posted there (you guys know that) and so it falls to cooler heads and more self-controlled members like Tristan to voice what is felt sometimes.

Lastly, I also do thank those members that "get it" and are supportive. I only hope your input goes as far -in fact farther- than the other ones.

[Toyah]

There are far too many judgemental and narrow minded people here who think that crossdressing only applies to their narrow minded sense of "whats right ".
You Guys are out there and doing your thing and I for one applaud you

[Kate Simmons]

Hi guys, Yeah I've noticed the decline in posting here as well. It's a shame some people are insensitive and just don't "get it". I, for one, love reading your thoughts and hearing about your adventures and experiences. I know it's not easy in any case. The point is we need to appreciate each other as people and that is where I come from. I think all of you guys are great and have a lot of fortitude. You can always count on my support and friendship, you know that.:happy:

[Stlalice]

With all respect it ain't always just the FTM guys that feel like they aren't receiving the respect that they deserve. Tristan raises a good point and at times I've seen the same thing happen to the MTF trans folks too. What with doing peer counseling and lectures/presentations through my church on transgender issues I've met and call friend some fine people in the FTM community locally. There are also some FTM guys on the board here whose posts I read quite carefully - even though I seldom write replies. Can't say that I blame you all for sticking to the clubhouse board. But I do miss your input and posts!! Hang in there guys - at least some of us value your experience. :hugs:

[kerensa]

Tristan i was a member of a very well known uk tv website but just because i wasnt like them i was treated as if i was an outcast, i felt really bad for a while and gave up on forums altogether, i only found this site last week and have found it a lot more relaxed and everyone can be who they want to, i find being transgendered in any way whatsoever is not a competiton like a few people would make you believe there are plenty of other girls on this site i know are better looking and more convincing that i could ever be but i am not the slightest bothered, i feel myself as if i am have male and half female and one day i will have the body to match, maybe other cds might find that strange, but its what i want and no one will stop me getting it. Just be yourself Tristan and dont worry about what over narrow minded people think its you life.

[Tamara Croft]

I've noticed this place has become quiet, but that makes me then wonder if members that used to post in here, feel the same way I do? I used to post in here, not a lot, but I did, and when I did, I felt my posts were always bypassed, ignored, not worthy of the regulars that post in here and get answered... so, I stopped posting in here, what was the point? Why bother answering a question and never get any response from the original poster? That's how 'I' feel personally... You think you're a minority, you only included the FTM's and MTF's, what about us? GG's, we're a minority also ya know? I know there are more GG's than FTM's, but hardly any of them are active. We don't even have a board just for us like you guys/gals do, (oh we did have one, don't ask, long story etc etc)... only a private one... So imagine how we also feel?

[Lisa Golightly]

Well I've just not been around... Forums are like little microcosms of the outside world and while I understand that tribal bigotry is often inherent within them, the movement of one group on mass to a virtual closet will not help those who lack knowledge to learn, or those who know to inform... Who'd be a pathfinder?

I like to see the boys around... It was one of the things that I always enjoyed about the place.

Lisa x

[bi_weird]

I'd agree with a sticky, except that I'd worry that it wouldn't get read. We've had annoucements before, and it doesn't always stop people. Maybe we should get in the habit of sending an emissary over to the MtF section when we feel like some of them are being too thoughtless and posting a thread like this asking them to remember how we feel?
I really also feel like FtMs should be in charge of what is and is not in our part of the forum. I'm often really confused as to why something got moved. If it's that we need another mod to keep track of things, and that's why sometimes our stuff gets moved without our permission or understanding, I'd gladly consider the post.

[Tamara Croft]

I really also feel like FtMs should be in charge of what is and is not in our part of the forum. I'm often really confused as to why something got moved.Hmm... why am I getting a sense of deja vu here....

Ok firstly: -

This forum is for those interested in discussing all areas of female to male crossdressing.

I think that is clear enough no? That is on the front page. If it isn't about FTM CD'ing, it's moved to wherever it should be.

As for FTM's being in charge of what is or isn't posted in here, well that's what the staff are here for. This section needs to stay focused on what it was created for, if you simply want it for chatting, then it serves no purpose does it? This section isn't a lounge, if we let it become one, then what's to say the MTF's of this board aren't going to do the same thing? We'll have.. well the boys do it, they have a thread like that... why was ours moved... get me? We have sections on this board for a reason and I do not feel that just because the FTM's are a minority here, they should turn this section into a 'post anything you like' section.

So, what's the real deal here, I feel like y'all are talking about this privately and then coming in here posting it. If this thread was just set up to make complaints, which I now feel it was, then you've gone the wrong way of doing it :mad:

[Emily Ann Brown]

I must admit I usually reply to many threads on the M2F section via PM to the originator instead of running the risk of snotty replies. You guys strike a cord with me (since I'm TG) and I relate to your hurt from the insensitivity of some of my sisters. At the risk of incurring a crapstorm I will mention what a post-op told me a long time ago....she didn't have much to do with dressers when she was pre-op because they often didn't understand TGs. We do often have perspectives and opinions that differ from those for who dressing is not an attempt to correct a "birth defect".


Emily Ann

[mistunderstood]

At the risk of being boo'ed at why can we not get along? Yes when I have a real personal issue it go's to the Club House.I learned that real quick here. Yes I do not answer the FTM side because of being burned to many times by people who do not care and post what ever they want. As for the GG's from what I see most of your posts here have been answered. Not every post will be answered. I also learned that quickly here. The thing to remember is try not to let a bad day here keep you from comeing back. This is one of a handfull of good sites out here on the web for us FTM. I do not like all of this petty stuff . Again I ask," Why can we not just get along?"

[Marla S]

I agree to most everything that has been said, but it doesn't help to back out of it.
MTF or FTM, CD or TG, or GG we are all a bit sensitive. That's just the nature of the subject, which has a lot to do with doubts, questions, self-perception, struggles, segregate from each other to integrate the the self, etc.
Most of us are searching here and a search includes trial and error, wich means we make mistakes, offend people without intention etc.

The number of members active or passive, MTF, FTM, GG says nothing.
What counts are the topics and issues discussed.
IMO there is a general decline in substance and formerly active members (MTF, FTM, GGs) lately in all sections.
What's lacking healthy culture of dispute.
You FTM, as well as our GGs are a very very important part of it, because only if we see different perspectives and hear different perspectives we can learn and educate.
Yes, sometimes one gets hurt or talks at cross purposes, but there is always (at least it should be) a chance to make things clear.
And there is always the chance to end up in a :hugs:
Sometimes some clear words are needed though.

[Tamara Croft]

Mistunderstood - that's the best thing I've read yet... oh and Marlas too :hugs: for you both :hugs:

[SL]

Hmm... why am I getting a sense of deja vu here....

Ok firstly: -

This forum is for those interested in discussing all areas of female to male crossdressing.

I think that is clear enough no? That is on the front page. If it isn't about FTM CD'ing, it's moved to wherever it should be.

As for FTM's being in charge of what is or isn't posted in here, well that's what the staff are here for. This section needs to stay focused on what it was created for, if you simply want it for chatting, then it serves no purpose does it? This section isn't a lounge, if we let it become one, then what's to say the MTF's of this board aren't going to do the same thing? We'll have.. well the boys do it, they have a thread like that... why was ours moved... get me? We have sections on this board for a reason and I do not feel that just because the FTM's are a minority here, they should turn this section into a 'post anything you like' section.

So, what's the real deal here, I feel like y'all are talking about this privately and then coming in here posting it. If this thread was just set up to make complaints, which I now feel it was, then you've gone the wrong way of doing it :mad:


I hope I'm not misreading, and I hope that what (I believe) was said isn't being filtered as being some kind of attack to the board? It sounds as if you're feeling that's what it is? If I'm wrong I can live with that. I've been wrong in life innumerable times. I guess I'm worried that even as we're talking about everybody being able to interrelate, any dialog thats actually about it might get smashed as being "an attack"? No one has to go in a clubhouse, plot, and then come back out -it sounds like thats what you're accusing. This post is currently written "off the cuff" and immediate. Sometimes we actually wait to post to clear our thoughts. Be more rational. And think about what it is we're going to say before we unintentionally do more harm to the situation here than good.

*shrug** I guess I'm just one of those people that just doesn't understand what is accomplilshed by not discussing an issue that affects the "public" in public?

ADD IN: This whole thing is just going "so wrong". I'm just getting it explained to me that the initial post can "look" like it was composed in a group? No. That didn't happen. And to Tamera, since I didn't have any idea that that was what was thought, I apologize for everything I just said. I was trying to figure out why you would be mad. Like I said, someone else had to tell me how the post could appear.

[Sharon]

I feel like when I am posting in our ftm section about issues with being trans and etc I have to keep this thick guard up that I keep up around me all day long, because of the insensitive people that post in here. That may refer to us as females, question why we would ever want to be males, or worst yet insinuate that we have it so easy being ftm. I don't think it's a matter of who struggles more, we all struggle. We all walk this journey, some of us cds, some of us trans, etc, we all face society's judgment and pressure to be what they expect. I do not consider my periods a pleasure, I don't like to look down and see my chest. I don't consider being a woman wonderful.


You make valid points, Tristan, and I totally know where you are coming from. I sometimes feel the same way when non-TS members say something irrelevant or ignorant in the Trans sections.

However -- just like the real world, this forum is made up of many different kinds of people, and sometimes you just need to learn to ignore those who know not of what they write. Simply put, there are dummies out there -- not only here, but everywhere you go. Thankfully, and I hope you agree with this, they are a distinct minority.

I always find it preferable to correct or educate those who write things that I find objectionable. If you just stay in the private Clubhouse, the naive and misinformed will learn nothing. And if they have no desire to learn, then it is their loss, not yours.

[Kieron Andrew]

. If you just stay in the private Clubhouse, the naive and misinformed will learn nothing. And if they have no desire to learn, then it is their loss, not yours.
Thats what ive been saying, how can the girls learn we exist and that we as human as them and we have similiar issues if we dont post where they can see us

[privateperks]

Um, if there is some vast ftm conspiracy to start this thread just to make complaints on or whatever - I certainly am unaware of it.

I can't and won't speak for anyone else but I will say this for myself since the subject has been brought up:

I don't post in the lobby because frankly - I feel overrun in there. Posts made in the lobby to chat with other guys get lost in there by the sheer weight of mtfs. Frankly, having been a board mod in a different place, I really don't see that there is any way to change that, so I ain't bitching or asking anyone to do it. It aint anybody's fault, that's just how it is. That being said, could just a little more leeway be given to the minority of ftm's, crossdressers, trans and otherwise who post here, on this particular board? Frankly, if I can't really post in the lounge because within hours anything I say to anyone else will be buried, and I can't chat in here either - then that only leaves the clubhouse. And if I wanted to be that insular, I wouldnt come here at all.

I think we all just need to take a deep breath and step back here guys and gals. If someone says something to offend someone else on this board, it's usually out of ignorance, insensitivity or mistaken meaning *NOT* intentionally. And yeah, it's sucky and it hurts - and it'll probably always happen since we're people and that's how people are about personal and sensitive subjects.

However, could we please, please, try and cut down on the "my boo boo is bigger than your boo boo" posts? Because nobody on here is qualified to discuss in any way shape or form how hard/easy someone else has got it, and any suggestion to the contrary *is* insensitive egotistical and downright childish. That's another reason why I dont post in the lobby, or the mtf sections or even read very much in them. I can't expect other people to be as sensitive or as mature as I'd like, or to watch out for my feelings. I know it's not a conscious slighting of ftms (usually). BUT the reoccuring "ftm's have it sooo easy" theme is grating.

I like it here, and I like alotta the people here. But there needs to be a spot where ftm's can hang out with mtf's and chat with each other over stuff that's relevant to us and which doesn't get buried. And I thought that was this board right here. Sorry that it appears I was mistaken.

[Wendy me]

i had a long post to make in this but deleted it ... plane and simple i like you guys here ... and i try to understand you guys hell i don't fully understand me so i do my best to think of all the members in all the forums as us and not us them and some one else ... i don't post over her because i feel like i get passed over like only a few mtf's have any response from you guys here ... so i don't reply but i read all your threads.. and learn from them opening my understanding of the guys here......

what i can say as a admin here is this you have your mods here and if people are saying or doing things not welcome stand up take control of your place .. tell the rest of the staff your needs and we will make sure that your forum , your home here is what it was meant to be... let no one not make you feel welcome in your home .... things need to be said in the boys club house thats why you have it like the other closed forums... when we have a hand full stop you guys from posting here we all lose .....

[privateperks]

I know that I am personally part of the problem in that respect Wendy. But it is not an intentional slighting of mtf's or gg's or anyone else usually. I just don't post that much out of inclination and a lack of time. But I really appreciate the mtf input for the most part even if it doesn't show. That's why I just think its a damn shame that this section is being cracked down on for 'irrelevant' posts when this is really the only place I have any kind of interaction with mtfs at all, even if its just reading their replies to other people's posts.

[Adam]

i find i like this forum its great and for the most part i feel welcomed on ALL bored and comfy its the odd few that spoil it by saying things without thinking its like there fingers type before they think what there writing i don't even think they no how upsetting what they write is.

take lone time i put a pic up someone sent me a message saying i was a pretty girl and why change now to them it was meant to be nice but to me i was not happy but i didn't get upset well i did but not at the person who wrote it because they only put what they was thinking.

Its hard though no matter who you are to not write something wrong because its hard to no what would and wouldn't upset someone else i tend to keep really personal stuff now to the boys club house yes but i also like the ftm cross dressing section because we can all share our views.

i would love to see more mtf and GG and Cd's reply in our threads it would be nice and cool only few things upset me like saying we have it lucky etc but some of the best information i have had from this forum has come from mtf and GG.

In all the time i have been on this forum i have only ever been upset with someones reply once now thats not bad going i don't think. My rule and this is only me unless they put my name in a reply and say as in me or call me a name then i tend not to take any replays personally lifes to short.

the case is like in many clubs forums and etc theres a few that upset the rest but people tend to focus on the bad and not the good i would say good people who reply to our thread way out weigh the bad.

[Cai]

take lone time i put a pic up someone sent me a message saying i was a pretty girl and why change now to them it was meant to be nice but to me i was not happy but i didn't get upset well i did but not at the person who wrote it because they only put what they was thinking.

That to me is the height of insensitivity. I wouldn't dream of telling any of the MtFs who posted a pic in drab that they were a good-looking man and should just stay that way. That person who wrote to you, Adam, might only having been saying what they were thinking, but they should have just thought a bit harder first.

But from the reactions the guys pics get, I know most of the GGs and MtFs understand that complimenting us as pretty girls is not what we want. I've seen a couple MtFs, thinking they were being nice, say that they saw the girl, but reversed themselves upon being told that the picture was of a guy.

I think it's just that people need to think before they speak (post). I'm sure that we've said something insensitive to one of the girls before, and didn't realize it. Everyone just needs to respect feelings, and we need to be slower to get upset when our feelings do get hurt.

[kerrianna]

I like it here, and I like alotta the people here. But there needs to be a spot where ftm's can hang out with mtf's and chat with each other over stuff that's relevant to us and which doesn't get buried. And I thought that was this board right here. Sorry that it appears I was mistaken.

This is what the FTM board was like when I first got to know you guys. There were pirate parties (including a memorable Xmas one that EVERYONE on cd.com seemed to enjoy) and lots of flirting and kibbitzing as we got to know and understand you.

If it had all been serious FTM 'crossdressing' (TG/TS) issues then I would probably have felt too out of place and intimidated and I would have never
a. got to know you guys and make some really cool friends
b. learned about not only your TG issues, but MINE as a result
c. been given a chance to express myself in a riskier way and been given validation and support from you guys.

This side of the fence WAS different in my time here. We did chat and joke more, it was one of the attractions that brought some of us girls here. It was like an interesting mix of the other Forums all merged into one special Forum. I always thought it was cool that the staff allowed it to operate with the freedom it had. I thought it worked out quite well. Sure, there were times when too many mistakes were made by 'visitors' and feelings were hurt, but the intervention of both the staff and the insistent Sticky's helped a lot. And I like to think that many of us MTFs and the GGs who did regularily visit modelled good behaviour and helped set the tone. Because for quite a while it seemed to be a pretty relaxed and happy place.

So if the staff is afraid that for some reason now the looseness of this Forum might affect the other Forums, here's a suggestion that might work. Create a seperate Lounge in the FTM Forum. A place where all those great parties and flirting and kibbitzing can happen. Where MTFs and GGs can get to know you guys. It could be a subsection of the FTM Crossdressing Forum.

I'm sure your most sensitive stuff will stay in the Clubhouse, but as for the rest of the serious stuff in the open Forum people just have to THINK before they post. Do you really get what the thread (or even the FTMs here) is about?

This site features crossdressers (and their partners) of all stripes so not everyone will get where others are coming from. But as long as RESPECT comes first, you shouldn't be p*ssing people off. There are respectful, compassionate ways to discuss things. There's no reason for ANYONE on this site to feel hurt, angry or unsafe. We just need to try harder.
:hugs::love:

ps... you boys rock! :kiss:

[michelleliz]

You Have said it the way it is Good for you

Michelle liz

[GACountrygal]

Kerianna,
Couldnt have said it better myself, Darlin!! :thumbsup: And yes, YOU GUYS ROCK!!!! :hugs::hugs::thumbsup:
Nic


This is what the FTM board was like when I first got to know you guys. There were pirate parties (including a memorable Xmas one that EVERYONE on cd.com seemed to enjoy) and lots of flirting and kibbitzing as we got to know and understand you.

If it had all been serious FTM 'crossdressing' (TG/TS) issues then I would probably have felt too out of place and intimidated and I would have never
a. got to know you guys and make some really cool friends
b. learned about not only your TG issues, but MINE as a result
c. been given a chance to express myself in a riskier way and been given validation and support from you guys.

This side of the fence WAS different in my time here. We did chat and joke more, it was one of the attractions that brought some of us girls here. It was like an interesting mix of the other Forums all merged into one special Forum. I always thought it was cool that the staff allowed it to operate with the freedom it had. I thought it worked out quite well. Sure, there were times when too many mistakes were made by 'visitors' and feelings were hurt, but the intervention of both the staff and the insistent Sticky's helped a lot. And I like to think that many of us MTFs and the GGs who did regularily visit modelled good behaviour and helped set the tone. Because for quite a while it seemed to be a pretty relaxed and happy place.

So if the staff is afraid that for some reason now the looseness of this Forum might affect the other Forums, here's a suggestion that might work. Create a seperate Lounge in the FTM Forum. A place where all those great parties and flirting and kibbitzing can happen. Where MTFs and GGs can get to know you guys. It could be a subsection of the FTM Crossdressing Forum.

I'm sure your most sensitive stuff will stay in the Clubhouse, but as for the rest of the serious stuff in the open Forum people just have to THINK before they post. Do you really get what the thread (or even the FTMs here) is about?

This site features crossdressers (and their partners) of all stripes so not everyone will get where others are coming from. But as long as RESPECT comes first, you shouldn't be p*ssing people off. There are respectful, compassionate ways to discuss things. There's no reason for ANYONE on this site to feel hurt, angry or unsafe. We just need to try harder.
:hugs::love:

ps... you boys rock! :kiss:

[ZenFrost]

Kerrianna, you made some great points there.



P.S. Thanks. :o

[scarlet]

I can understand where you are comming from its sortof how I've felt all my life.There have been alot of new members sinc I've come around here and its just recently that I've come to realize its not just about dressing differnt its Way more complex than I caneven explain were all human and need to feel good about ourselvs and hopefully our friends support that and those things are going to be asvaried as we all are.Well hope your comfort level comes back . So you can help educate everyone.:hugs:

[pocoyo]

Wow I take a look here out of nostalgia and find this turmoil going on :worried: oh man :(

It was very different in my day here as well.
At the start and middle at least.
Unfortunately the missunderstanding and brashness of some people is what caused me to not consider this a safe haven any more and sadly have to now use such terms as "in my day here".
For a while, this board, it was AMAZING, a true lifeline, due to the lovely understanding people here (which I told them frequently).

It's a real shame that the rudeness and insensitivity of others chase people away. Because those people had come to this board in need of help and guidance.. but unfortunately a lot of those people in need of guidance are (like me)... once bitten, twice shy. (Well ok, quite a few more times than "once" but you get my point).

Transgender issues are very sensitive and important in nature, which is why on a board for TG people the most important rules should be things like "Be nice" and "Please respect how the others here identify" "Be respectful".

Luckily I have come to discover that there are kind happy, respectful places like that. And boy is it a relief.
Being able to discuss issues without the threat of someone totally stressing you out due to their misunderstanding/thoughtlessness or rudeness... because let's face it... you were probably stressed out enough with your issues you're posting about as it is! Without some fool stomping all over your carefully and bravely written post and your feelings.

Btw when I was a member here, I would always answer mtfs and ggs. I loved that they were posting here and learning about us and joining in. So did the other guys, we even posted thank you threads about it and about how we appreciated the mtf and gg input and understanding. Infact I totally adored the gg's and mtfs!

The only people I ever ignore is if they have said something obviously stupid or rude. Or something so rude and argumentative or insensitive that it's not worth trying to explain things to because it would waste too much energy and frustration on my part. Sometimes it's just not worth getting wound up.

I think that a lot of the confusion is because the board is called crossdressers.com and the ftm section is (naturally) called "ftm crossdressing".
Which makes people's 1st assumption, that the ftms posting here are just girls putting boys' clothes on.
Which the odd ftm does, but in the main, ftm people are actually tg or ts ... because for a female-bodied person to question and seek help or guidance about their gender, they have to have pretty hard-core gender issues in the 1st place, because it is so normal in society these days for female-bodied people to wear "male" clothes.

We are/were very lucky to have this place though, because ftm resources are so limited that we were so lucky to find each other in the nearest place we could get to a "ftm TG" board.

A helpful answer would be to retitle the ftm section "FtM crossdressers and TG issues" or "FtM transgender" or something like that... but I can't see that happening because it would ruin the symmetry of the board or whatever.
To be honest we should count ourselves lucky to have a home here on a crossdressing board. But sometimes it's the people that make the board...so you have to take them into consideration.

But if only the true FtM Crossdressers posted here...
Then it would be a very sparse forum indeed.


It's easy to see from both sides why it's so confusing.

It's like:

Uninformed/new people: Oh look... a ftm crossdressers board.. they must be girls.. who like putting boys' clothes on.
Most of the ftms: (in frustration) AARGH WE ARE NOT GIRLS!!! If you took the time and respect to hear what we're saying/read our posts/stickies you'd knooow thaaaattt wuaaah!
A ftm crossdresser: *in small voice* well.. apart from me!

At least there is that new ftm TS section now though and the clubhouse, so understanding should hopefully be found in them thar parts. (Although it is sad to feel you have to hide in the clubhouse :( :hugs:).

I think that Transgendered is a really good term, because it encompasses any degree of gender play or questioning. From CD right up to TS.


I am really horrified to find out that things seem to have got even worse (looking at this thread) while I have been away.

Come on everyone, please just get along.
It's not hard to do...

All you have to do is LISTEN to people, what they say, how they identify.
And be respectful to and kind about how they feel and identify.
It's very easy.

There was a time when it was pretty great like that here.
There would just be the sometimes foolish posters that we'd try and explain things to.

I hope that soon, you guys & girls are all having fun and being friendly like in the good old days.


Because look on the bright side... if it happened before.. it can happen again!

[Kieron Andrew]

ok going way offtopic....i think i love you Poccy lol :heehee:......but fantastically written post dude! although i hate that colour font and strained to read it lol

[Wendy me]

Wow I take a look here out of nostalgia and find this turmoil going on :worried: oh man :(

It was very different in my day here as well.
At the start and middle at least.
Unfortunately the missunderstanding and brashness of some people is what caused me to not consider this a safe haven any more and sadly have to now use such terms as "in my day here".
For a while, this board, it was AMAZING, a true lifeline, due to the lovely understanding people here (which I told them frequently). it still is AMAZING, lol talk like it's over it's done .... i don't get it....

It's a real shame that the rudeness and insensitivity of others chase people away. Because those people had come to this board in need of help and guidance.. but unfortunately a lot of those people in need of guidance are (like me)... once bitten, twice shy. (Well ok, quite a few more times than "once" but you get my point).

once again if your section mods don't ask for help when you guys here have issues .... it grows and causes a melt down.....

Transgender issues are very sensitive and important in nature, which is why on a board for TG people the most important rules should be things like "Be nice" and "Please respect how the others here identify" "Be respectful".

Luckily I have come to discover that there are kind happy, respectful places like that. And boy is it a relief.
Being able to discuss issues without the threat of someone totally stressing you out due to their misunderstanding/thoughtlessness or rudeness... because let's face it... you were probably stressed out enough with your issues you're posting about as it is! Without some fool stomping all over your carefully and bravely written post and your feelings.


respect and telling the staff abought your issues could have fixed this before it blew up ....
Btw when I was a member here, I would always answer mtfs and ggs. I loved that they were posting here and learning about us and joining in. So did the other guys, we even posted thank you threads about it and about how we appreciated the mtf and gg input and understanding. Infact I totally adored the gg's and mtfs!

The only people I ever ignore is if they have said something obviously stupid or rude. Or something so rude and argumentative or insensitive that it's not worth trying to explain things to because it would waste too much energy and frustration on my part. Sometimes it's just not worth getting wound up.


lol ok i like almost never got any responce from this FTM forum .... tell were what i said was something obviously stupid or rude. Or something so rude and argumentative or insensitive ........



I think that a lot of the confusion is because the board is called crossdressers.com and the ftm section is (naturally) called "ftm crossdressing".
Which makes people's 1st assumption, that the ftms posting here are just girls putting boys' clothes on.
Which the odd ftm does, but in the main, ftm people are actually tg or ts ... because for a female-bodied person to question and seek help or guidance about their gender, they have to have pretty hard-core gender issues in the 1st place, because it is so normal in society these days for female-bodied people to wear "male" clothes.

We are/were very lucky to have this place though, because ftm resources are so limited that we were so lucky to find each other in the nearest place we could get to a "ftm TG" board.

A helpful answer would be to retitle the ftm section "FtM crossdressers and TG issues" or "FtM transgender" or something like that... but I can't see that happening because it would ruin the symmetry of the board or whatever.
To be honest we should count ourselves lucky to have a home here on a crossdressing board. But sometimes it's the people that make the board...so you have to take them into consideration.

But if only the true FtM Crossdressers posted here...
Then it would be a very sparse forum indeed.


so like talk to the staff assumeing maks a ASS out U and ME .....assume that we would not listen assume we would not try to make things the way the guy's wanted or needed ......

It's easy to see from both sides why it's so confusing.

It's like:

Uninformed/new people: Oh look... a ftm crossdressers board.. they must be girls.. who like putting boys' clothes on.
Most of the ftms: (in frustration) AARGH WE ARE NOT GIRLS!!! If you took the time and respect to hear what we're saying/read our posts/stickies you'd knooow thaaaattt wuaaah!
A ftm crossdresser: *in small voice* well.. apart from me!

At least there is that new ftm TS section now though and the clubhouse, so understanding should hopefully be found in them thar parts. (Although it is sad to feel you have to hide in the clubhouse :( :hugs:).

I think that Transgendered is a really good term, because it encompasses any degree of gender play or questioning. From CD right up to TS.

if it's exposer you need to have people know and understand the guy's issues then talking in a closed forum is not going to teach outhers anything abought the guy's......
I am really horrified to find out that things seem to have got even worse (looking at this thread) while I have been away.

Come on everyone, please just get along.
It's not hard to do...

All you have to do is LISTEN to people, what they say, how they identify.
And be respectful to and kind about how they feel and identify.
It's very easy.

There was a time when it was pretty great like that here.
There would just be the sometimes foolish posters that we'd try and explain things to.

I hope that soon, you guys & girls are all having fun and being friendly like in the good old days.


Because look on the bright side... if it happened before.. it can happen again!





i don't post over here because i don't get replyed to .... i don't post here because i got the clicky feeling .... and i don't do clicks.......

[Tamara Croft]

A helpful answer would be to retitle the ftm section "FtM crossdressers and TG issues" or "FtM transgender" or something like that... but I can't see that happening because it would ruin the symmetry of the board or whatever.
You couldn't be far wrong... never say never, you never know what plans are being cooked up ;)

I think we've gone a bit overboard in this thread tbh... out of hand... etc.. and instead of carrying this on, we need to fix it, sort out what's going on, find out why you're not happy, let us know who keeps upsetting you etc... if we don't know, we can't do anything can we? There is a triangle on each post, if you don't like what someone has to say and it upsets you, click it, report it, it comes straight to us, let us know why you're reporting it... and then we can do something. But keeping quiet, letting all this frustration build up is not going to do anyone any good is it? Before it gets to the point of 'blood boiling', you need to let us know from the start... not after it's built up like this.

Now... who do I need to :bitchslap: ?? :heehee:

[Sweet Jane]

I so rarely post at the f2m boards because I feel I really can't add much value to your comments. In saying that I do pop by and read a bit, and in doing so gain an understaning af you guys.....and at the same time me, I think. If the posting dries up here, then I suppose we will all be a little poorer for it.
So maybe ignore the insensitive...lets face it sometimes a few of the m2f CDs can get a little "over enthusiatic"...haha.........:2c:

[Kieron Andrew]

Now... who do I need to :bitchslap: ?? :heehee:me me me! :heehee:......Dang it i hate it when you post sensible posts that actually make sense! :tongueout

[SherriePall]

Tristan -- Just remember that some people just never get it. So, you live your life and go on. It might sting for a while, but it wears off.

[Tamara Croft]

me me me! :heehee:......Dang it i hate it when you post sensible posts that actually make sense! :tongueoutOne does try... now come over here you... :bitchslap:

[Marcie Sexton]

Trist, I can't really believe that any member would knowingly say anything hurtful...

Especially those that live in glass houses...

I try to keep every thing on a level field, referring to every one as guys and gals...leaving it up to each indivisual to determine how they want to be referred to...

I for one can't see how you would have it any easier than us, we all are struggling to gain acceptance by all...after all isn't that what we all desire ?

[ZenFrost]

Well this thread has certainly exploded. Not only are there a lot of posts, but there's a lot of long posts. Good thing I like reading. There's just a couple (more) things I'd like to say:

Tristan, thank you for starting this thread. It was very brave to post something like that and I tip my hat to you for it. You've said a lot of things out loud that needed to be said and judging from the number of replies, many of us had things we wanted to put on the table. So again, thank you for starting this thread.

Pocoyo, that was very well written and I agree with all of your points. It's also really nice to see a post from you these days. You haven't been on much (not that I can blame you at all) and you've been sorely missed. I'm glad you decided to participate in this thread because your 'two cents' are very worth the read.

Tamara, thank you for being so understanding in this matter. We've been having a bit of a tough time lately and you're right about it being bad to hold it all in. So thank you for being willing to put forth the effort to try and help us. :hugs:

And everyone else that's posted on this thread... thank you all for being so candid. I don't like it when people tip-toe around big issues as people tend to do. There are some things that need to be said on all sides of an issue and so I thank you all for saying them.

[joann426]

i know how u women fel about trying to be man because us guys have the same problem s with clothes shoes wigs lipstick and so forth we are crossdresser also from m to f it is alot of work for the both of us isn't it ::drink: up and have fun withall we do

[brylram]

i know how u women fel about trying to be man because us guys have the same problem s with clothes shoes wigs lipstick and so forth we are crossdresser also from m to f it is alot of work for the both of us isn't it ::drink: up and have fun withall we do

Unfortunately, I think this might have just proven part of the point of the original post. And also seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding of the ensuing discussion. :\ I feel a little awkward making a post in this thread though, as I really havent been here all that long.

[ZenFrost]

Unfortunately, I think this might have just proven part of the point of the original post. And also seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding of the ensuing discussion. :\ I feel a little awkward making a post in this thread though, as I really havent been here all that long.

I think Bi might have mentioned that this is a weird time to join in your intro thread... this is what he was talking about. Don't feel awkward about posting anywhere, we love your input regardless of how new to the forum you are. :happy:

P.S. Can't wait to see you in the clubhouse. :D

[Robin Leigh]

i know how u women fel about trying to be man because us guys have the same problem s with clothes shoes wigs lipstick and so forth we are crossdresser also from m to f it is alot of work for the both of us isn't it ::drink: up and have fun withall we do

Joann, darling, I think maybe your blonde wig is a few notches too tight. :D :hugs:


Unfortunately, I think this might have just proven part of the point of the original post. And also seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding of the ensuing discussion. :\ I feel a little awkward making a post in this thread though, as I really havent been here all that long.
Just slightly. Logan. :) But Joann's pretty new, too, and she obviously was trying to be friendly, not disrespectful. And like a lot of MTF CDers, it appears, she doesn't realize the more TG/TS nature of you FTM blokes.

I wish that newcomers here would read the sticky posts before they just dive in & start posting... I agree that a simple name change for this section may help. Either that, or make people do an entrance exam before they can post. :D

:hugs:

Robin

[ZenFrost]

I wish that newcomers here would read the sticky posts before they just dive in & start posting... I agree that a simple name change for this section may help. Either that, or make people do an entrance exam before they can post. :D

:hugs:

Robin

Yeah, and if they fail the enterance exam they have to go through sensitivity training. :tongueout

[privateperks]

You know, that's actually not such a bad idea, except that it would probably put off too many people who would otherwise like to post here.

[Kieron Andrew]

I dont understand the big problem with getting pronouns correctly on a TG board out of respect for the chosen gender whether they are transitioning or not its just respectful.....MTF - she, her, girl......FTM - He, him, boy.....easy innit lol, none of the other boards im on get the problem

oooh another sticky ive just thought of.....something along the lines of the gender pronouns for everyone to see like what ive just posted lol


P.S. Can't wait to see you in the clubhouse. :D
Psst not long now he has 7 posts already :D

[Tamara Croft]

i know how u women fel about trying to be man <snip>I guess you haven't read any of this thread have you... the bit I've bolded is the whole point, stop calling the guys in this section women fgs... they HATE IT... STOP IT ALREADY.... That's like calling a post op MTF TS a man....


IT'S NOT BLOODY ROCKET SCIENCE.....

....... now you made me mad :mad:

I think some people need an obvious IQ test :rolleyes:

[Wendy me]

OK we all got a lot of learning and growing to do .... i believe it's endless ...ok lets not hang joann426 but rather see that we need more understanding and growing to do .... take the time to explain .... i know your tired of explaining ... but look at it this way when you do and that person gets it .... it's one more that dose .....

[Stlalice]

I think we've gone a bit overboard in this thread tbh... out of hand... etc.. and instead of carrying this on, we need to fix it, sort out what's going on, find out why you're not happy, let us know who keeps upsetting you etc... if we don't know, we can't do anything can we? There is a triangle on each post, if you don't like what someone has to say and it upsets you, click it, report it, it comes straight to us, let us know why you're reporting it... and then we can do something. But keeping quiet, letting all this frustration build up is not going to do anyone any good is it? Before it gets to the point of 'blood boiling', you need to let us know from the start... not after it's built up like this.

Now... who do I need to :bitchslap: ?? :heehee:[/QUOTE]

Tamara,

When you come right down to it I doubt that there really is a "cure" for the problem. I do outreach and sometimes peer counseling on TG issues and what I've noticed is that almost every time I do a presentation or a class the same questions tend to come up. While you do get some folks being rude/ignorant the majority really don't know or understand the problems and issues that all TG folks face all the time. The problems ain't in their universe let alone their personal experience. They have never thought about them the way we have. So, yes they make mistakes and seem disrespectful at times but as long as it isn't being done deliberately I let it slide. So the only real cure as I see it are the public boards where they can get basic info and guidance and what has been done here - private invitation only boards for more serious issues and discussions. That and the folks who have been here awhile understanding the difference. :2c:

[brylram]

I dunno, I can see how the problem itself could maybe be fixed, but not the cause (the lack of understanding some people have). If there was a requirement that people had to prove they knew what was going on before they could make any posts in this area, or something along those lines, it would eliminate the problem of uneducated posts... but that'd create a pretty oppressive and disclusive environment, and would probably make the ladies not want to post here at all. Unpleasant as it can be at times to have someone who just doesn't get it come along, I've found in the past that sometimes those same people arent that hard to teach, and I'd rather suffer through 9 fools to get one great person out of it, than never even meet that person at all. *shrug*

Now I've edged too close to sappy for my liking, I need to go make fun of a romance movie. *runs off*

PS- What you talking about '7' Kieron? :p

[Tristan]

I want to thank everyone for their replies. I've been reading them along the way and I've wanted to say something, anything, but I just couldn't seem to find any more words to add. Thank you ahead of time for whatever you are cooking up, Tamera.

[Dasein9]

i know how u women fel about trying to be man because us guys have the same problem s with clothes shoes wigs lipstick and so forth we are crossdresser also from m to f it is alot of work for the both of us isn't it ::drink: up and have fun withall we do


Quite a few of the people on the FTM board are not women and do not appreciate being called women.

[Dasein9]

I dunno, I can see how the problem itself could maybe be fixed, but not the cause (the lack of understanding some people have). If there was a requirement that people had to prove they knew what was going on before they could make any posts in this area, or something along those lines, it would eliminate the problem of uneducated posts... but that'd create a pretty oppressive and disclusive environment, and would probably make the ladies not want to post here at all. Unpleasant as it can be at times to have someone who just doesn't get it come along, I've found in the past that sometimes those same people arent that hard to teach, and I'd rather suffer through 9 fools to get one great person out of it, than never even meet that person at all. *shrug*

Now I've edged too close to sappy for my liking, I need to go make fun of a romance movie. *runs off*

PS- What you talking about '7' Kieron? :p

That's what the Clubhouse is for. :D

And hi, by the way. I've been spending less time around here, but do want to welcome you.

[Lisa Golightly]

Unpleasant as it can be at times to have someone who just doesn't get it come along, I've found in the past that sometimes those same people arent that hard to teach, and I'd rather suffer through 9 fools to get one great person out of it, than never even meet that person at all. *shrug*

A wise man indeed :hugs:

[nataliecd77]

Sorry to drag all this back up again.... I read a lil of what you guys are upto from time to time, I usually don't post here much because someone else has laready given almost the same answer as I would have or it's a question I just don't have an answer to.
I don't like the fact that you guys aren't feeling too comfortable anymore here, It must really be bad to have to constantly deal with misconceptions and stupid behavior from people who should generally know better ( people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! comes to mind).
When I first joined this site I suppose I intrinsically knew that FtM's exsisted but had never actually met any, because of that it was a learning experience for me. I believe a lot of MtF especially the newer girls don't know or haven't even thought about the problems you guys face, especially as most of the guys here are more towards transsexual than fetishistic crossdressers. That might be a small reason why ya'll have to deal with so many insnesitive posts. The only way to fix that problem is through educating the unknowing ( like me even). So guys if there's ever anything I can do to help ya'll out please ask I'll be more than gald to "give a budy a hand".
Luv,
Natalie

[SirTrey]

It's really as simple as this....If we can't or won't accept each other and the differences that WE have as individuals, how can we ever expect the world to? And do we even have the right to expect it. TOLERANCE....ACCEPTANCE....of those just like us AND those who are wired a little differently....When we do THAT, we will have more of a leg to stand on....What you said was RIGHT ON the money. Cheers, **Tracy**