Can TFs give insights into CD?---you might not have heard of these guys

[MarinaTwelve200]

While looking up some old TG folktales a few years back I discovered something enormous that I never dreamed existed. I feel that it can shed some light on the nature of some forms of CD.

Just as there are TS and CD there are a third group we can call TRANSFORMATIONISTS --TF.

Just as A CD may imagine one’s self as a member of the opposite sex, a TF likes to fantasize about being an ANIMAL or even some inanimate object. Sometimes there is even dressing (costumes) involved. Apparently this group is very large, perhaps comparing in numbers to CD itself---There are lots of TF sites on the web and can be found if you wish.

The value in studying TFs is that their patterns of activity seem to closely parallel CDs, but there does not seem to be a major gender factor involved. A TF may want to be a HORSE, for example, just as a CD man might want to be a WOMAN. But the usual lack of a gender element ,makes the psychology of a TF a lot more easy to disentangle than in the case of a CD---who also has to deal with complex physical, Social and psychological issues involving gender and sexuality that can greatly complicate matters.

So what’s going on with TFs? On the surface it seems even weirder than CD. And more difficult, as there are no such things as “dog clothes” or “pig clothes” ;)

Clearly another level of IDENTITY is involved here. This suggests that our identity function is broken down into several levels in our brain. The lowest might be “animate/inanimate”, next up may be “human/animal”, followed by ”man/woman”, “homosexual/Heterosexual” and at the top of the hierarchy, “Myself/Someone else”(specific name/persona)

These elements have a “normal setting” at birth, but in some cases some IDENTITY elements might be ‘toggled” the wrong way (as per our biology)---resulting in homosexuality, TS, etc. There is also a tremendous high experienced by those who can (playfully) temporally toggle these ID elements on their own—as the brain works to set them back to default.---Thus we may have the “thrill Seeker” CD for example.

But whether the ID functions are set erroneously or some people play with them. The behavior of the individual can reveal just WHAT part of the identity function is affected or is being manipulated.

Us CDs, depending on what kind of CD we are may be messing with any of the ID functions above the “Human/Animal” TSs may be struggling with a reverse toggle of the “man/woman” level while an escapist CD may be involved with the “me/somebody else” function.

TFs are involved with the lower hierarchies of the ID function. It’s hard to believe that these basic levels are toggled in the wrong position at birth, so I suspect most TF is based on the HIGH by using brain tricks and props to temporarily toggle the functions---Just as some of us THRILL SEEKER CDs do. Also there may be some CDs who are REALLY TFs---as an animal body is hard to acquire or fake –and a man becoming a woman is a more realistic prospect.---But THIS would be involving the ME/SOMEBODY ELSE ID level.---The same as the escapist CDs. Escaping from “humanity”, is related to escaping from one’s self after all.

[Kate Simmons]

Hmmm----I've had those feelings as well Marina. Seems like sometimes we have to get back to "basics"(ID) in order to move forward. I'm not surprised really.:happy:

[Marla S]

Apparently this group is very large, perhaps comparing in numbers to CD itself---There are lots of TF sites on the web and can be found if you wish.
Could you provide a link or two. Haven't found anything on a quick search.

[AmberTG]

It would be an interesting area to study, it's in the fundamental functioning of the conciousness.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Could you provide a link or two. Haven't found anything on a quick search.

http://www.transfur.com/ Is one site also try Metamorphose.org and google/yahoo on "Naga" and "furries."

These are just the tip of the iceberg.

[BarbaraTalbot]

minor thread deviation...along the same lines as kind of escapist crossdressing, what about cos play? (From costume play I assume) On here I have only seen Jess (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62301) dress that way but it is where one dresses as a character generally from anime. It is definitely fantasy based,not sure whether it is considered in that community as merely imitative, or whetherthere is an arousal component?

[Toyah]

minor thread deviation...along the same lines as kind of escapist crossdressing, what about cos play? (From costume play I assume) On here I have only seen Jess dress that way but it is where one dresses as a character generally from anime. It is definitely fantasy based,not sure whether it is considered in that community as merely imitative, or whetherthere is an arousal component?


So let me get this right, you think they are playing and we are serious. Merely imitative is a very derogatory comment that could easily be applied to us and arousal can also be applied to a lot (except for the TG mafia who would not lower their selves). I am sorry but I think we have to be a lot more accepting than we are in this respect and accept that they have the same desire to change themselves

[sterling12]

Since I know little or nothing about it, I can't begin to presume to judge it! I will assume that these people, like ourselves, like so many others, are out there at "The Edge," of societal norms.

Joanie and I have met a lot of people who don't fit into easily understood or catagorized boxes. Rubber Queens, BDSM People, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay, Straight, all sizes and types.

You know what we have learned? It doesn't matter! They are still people, and they need our tolerance and acceptance. Right now, in this country, people who have been disinfranchised for quite a few years are soon going to get the opportunity to "send some messages." I think it is a wise thing for Those People's to learn more about each other and to start making common cause.

Want's to be a dog? Has fantasies about becomming an undergarment? That's cool......probably a very interesting person. Somebody Joanie would and should get to know.

As usual, a very thought provoking thread from Marina, thank you.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Marla S]

Ok, with term 'furries' I found something.

I can't tell much about it, because I don't know enough to draw any parallels or conclusions.

What I know is that there are countless ways to 'escape' from something. Some have the same cause, some have the same effect and some seem to be what they are not.

To create different levels of identity from it .... dunno ... very skeptical.

[JoAnnDallas]

CSI did an episode on this subject and when I was in Vegas last Jan., I saw a ad for a "PLUSHIES" convention. I guess they are similar to TF, since they dress in animal costumes head to foot. Don't know anything about this culture, but seems to be a large group that covers all of the country.
Just goes to show that if you look hard enough, you can find just about anything you can imagion.

[Kate Simmons]

All that having been said, I'd like to be a stylish teapot.:happy:

[RobertaFermina]

Ummmmm....still haven't got my head around this one....really takes some sit-down time to feel my way through it. Lots of wierd feelings and judgments to sort out.

Thanks for posting on this !

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Ashley Lynn Swift]

Since I know little or nothing about it, I can't begin to presume to judge it! I will assume that these people, like ourselves, like so many others, are out there at "The Edge," of societal norms.

Joanie and I have met a lot of people who don't fit into easily understood or catagorized boxes. Rubber Queens, BDSM People, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay, Straight, all sizes and types.

You know what we have learned? It doesn't matter! They are still people, and they need our tolerance and acceptance. Right now, in this country, people who have been disinfranchised for quite a few years are soon going to get the opportunity to "send some messages." I think it is a wise thing for Those People's to learn more about each other and to start making common cause.

Want's to be a dog? Has fantasies about becomming an undergarment? That's cool......probably a very interesting person. Somebody Joanie would and should get to know.

As usual, a very thought provoking thread from Marina, thank you.

Peace and Love, Joanie


Nicely put I just can't figure out this one, maybe just b/c it's new to me and i haven't got enough info, we i wouldn't be able to judge them be no means, i just keep coming back to What?, yes I've felt like i was Born in the wrong Sex for as long as i can remember, I've never felt that i was born of the Wrong Speicies

[Kitty Sue]

Interesting. I do not see the problem with it as long as it is safe and fun for those involved. Cool.

[Satrana]

I have always thought that the root of cding and furries is a disassociation with who were are being told we should be. When we felt that we don't fit in correctly to the mold that society imposed on us, we sought to associate ourselves with something else - the obvious candidate is the opposite gender but it can also be with familiar animals such as dogs, cats and farm animals. You wont find many elephant or penguin furries for example.

Our desire is to escape from the discomfort of not being able to express who we really are by finding alternative associations and their masked appearances which allows us to behave in a totally different manner. We believe the grass is greener on the other side and if only we could magically transform ourselves into someone/something else, we could escape the prison we find ourselves in.

Furries may be more escapist thans CDs because they sought their association in animals rather than other humans, but the mindset and experiences of furries is the same as those reported by CDs so it is highly likely the same mental aerobatics are at play.

I wonder if furries go around saying they were born this way, or hormonal imbalances during pregnancy gave them an animal brain :D

[MarinaTwelve200]

I have always thought that the root of cding and furries is a disassociation with who were are being told we should be. When we felt that we don't fit in correctly to the mold that society imposed on us, we sought to associate ourselves with something else - the obvious candidate is the opposite gender but it can also be with familiar animals such as dogs, cats and farm animals. You wont find many elephant or penguin furries for example.

Our desire is to escape from the discomfort of not being able to express who we really are by finding alternative associations and their masked appearances which allows us to behave in a totally different manner. We believe the grass is greener on the other side and if only we could magically transform ourselves into someone/something else, we could escape the prison we find ourselves in.

Furries may be more escapist thans CDs because they sought their association in animals rather than other humans, but the mindset and experiences of furries is the same as those reported by CDs so it is highly likely the same mental aerobatics are at play.

I wonder if furries go around saying they were born this way, or hormonal imbalances during pregnancy gave them an animal brain :D

Yes, you seem to catch on to what I am talking about. The TF mental dynamic seems very close to non transsexual based CDing.

You also seem to point out in your last sentance some of the "red herring" personal psychological speculation that seems humourous in the animal/TF context, but can confuse and interfere with the thinking of us CDs when we try to self analyze our condition. Using the TF psychological pattern seems like a "cleaner" way to approach CD without introducing psycho/social sexual factors that may not really apply in non TS CD.

[Satrana]

Using the TF psychological pattern seems like a "cleaner" way to approach CD without introducing psycho/social sexual factors that may not really apply in non TS CD.

Definitely, a detailed comparison between the two groups would undoubtedly clear away the undergrowth from the CD community producing a much cleaner, focused picture of our condition and its roots, leaving behind all the pseudo-science speculation once and for all.

There are some really simple, obvious, rational explanations for crossdressing. I never understand why people feel the need to wrap CDing up in mysticism and fate. True I was initially puzzled at first until I realized I was looking for answers in the wrong place. The answer was in my head all along.:heehee:

We already have all the pieces of the jigsaw, it just needs to be put together. A comparison with the TF community would be the best way to achieve this.

[Sarah.]

The great thing about being human is that we can enjoy anything if we put our minds to it. I think people have the potential to desire to be anything that they think they should want to be as long as they're not afraid.:2c: