Self Made Man - Nora Vincent

[Hippy Chic]

Hi all, 'scuse the intrusion, just curious to know if anyone here has read it.

I read it & as a male, a lot (although not all) resonated for me, from a male perspective.

My partner has read bits of it & she gets a bit irrate at times (so much so that I avoid the subject!) & words like "mysoginist" & "grooming" get muttered (about the book, not me!).

Just interested if anyone here has read it & what you thought from a F2M point of view?

[Kieron Andrew]

http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,,1733547,00.html

[Devon James]

I haven't read it yet, I can't find a copy here in Holland so I'll have to import it somewhere.
The article from the weblink, thanx Kieron, wants me to have a copy ;) it's an interesting story.

[Adam]

sounds intrestiong found where i can get a copy for £6 but wonder if its a good read

[brylram]

I saw this book at the University of Lethbridge's bookstore... I really wanted to get it, but I'd left my wallet at my then-girlfriends house, and she said I could get the book or food. Naturally, my stomach won. I'll probably order a copy soon though now that I've been reminded about it.

The only thing though, is I've heard that the author has a somewhat skewed view of some things, and emphasized the very worst of male behaviour in both her writing and her own actions while presenting as male. And also that some ftm transsexuals have been offended by the vibe that it was all just an experiment for her amusement, and that she easily and comfortably reverted to life as a female (as that's what she really is)... and they feel that it somewhat trivializes the serious struggles and pain that true ftm's must go through. But from this excerpt it DOES look like the book has a different vibe entirely than what I'd been told, which may have something to do with the fact that it was edited.

It seems like a critical, if not required read for all of us though, as it's important to know all the viewpoints and representations relating to our situations. And to be aware of what less informed individuals may be reading about, and assuming is true about US as well.

[xsideburnsx]

I have also heard FTMs give bad reviews of this book. I've considered reading it, but I have issues with actually going and buying the book. Like the cashier would take one look at me and know I was a "self made man" and I'd have to bust her in the jaw haha.

[brylram]

What kinds of things have you heard?

And also, if you have a problem with buying it in a store, I'd recommend ordering from amazon.com. I've always ordered my books from there, and even with shipping to Canada their prices and shipping times are very good. So no matter where you are, ordering from them should be no problem.

[Kieron Andrew]

What kinds of things have you heard?

And also, if you have a problem with buying it in a store, I'd recommend ordering from amazon.com. I've always ordered my books from there, and even with shipping to Canada their prices and shipping times are very good. So no matter where you are, ordering from them should be no problem.
that was my gonna be my suggestion too, or you can order from barnes and noble online too

[xsideburnsx]

What kinds of things have you heard?

And also, if you have a problem with buying it in a store, I'd recommend ordering from amazon.com. I've always ordered my books from there, and even with shipping to Canada their prices and shipping times are very good. So no matter where you are, ordering from them should be no problem.

I've heard that she's made some anti-trans remarks and that in itself makes me not want to get the book. I wouldn't want the money to go to her. I guess getting it from amazon from a private seller would make me feel better. Knowing my cash is going to that private seller.

I generally get my books from Half.com...sometimes amazon if I can't find what I'm lookin' for on half.com.

[Cai]

I have also heard FTMs give bad reviews of this book. I've considered reading it, but I have issues with actually going and buying the book. Like the cashier would take one look at me and know I was a "self made man" and I'd have to bust her in the jaw haha.

OT, but I had the same feeling when I went and rented "Boys Don't Cry". :rolleyes:

[happyfish]

If you have a public library, you might be able to check it out without any of your money going to support the author. That's what I did (though not for that specific reason, just because I prefer to not buy books until I know I love them). I found it an interesting read, at least. There's nothing specifically anti-trans in the book, though she does seem to emphasize the bad parts of being a guy and how hard it is, etc. I heard she made the anti-trans comments before writing the book, though I don't know if she's changed her opinion since, or even what she said.

[xsideburnsx]

OT, but I had the same feeling when I went and rented "Boys Don't Cry". :rolleyes:

I know exactly what you mean! I saw it with a buddy of mine and my fiance at the time. I felt like his eyes were on me even though they really weren't.


If you have a public library, you might be able to check it out without any of your money going to support the author. That's what I did (though not for that specific reason, just because I prefer to not buy books until I know I love them). I found it an interesting read, at least. There's nothing specifically anti-trans in the book, though she does seem to emphasize the bad parts of being a guy and how hard it is, etc. I heard she made the anti-trans comments before writing the book, though I don't know if she's changed her opinion since, or even what she said.

Yeah I'm going to give the library a shot. I try and read books at a bookstore before buying them, but I always just buy things if I can get into the first chapter or if the subject happens to be one I love. I'm super impatient sometimes so I just buy buy buy.

I heard that the anti-trans comments were before she did the book. I mean anyone could change their way of thinking, but I guess I need proof she feels differently.

[brylram]

I decided to run with my impulse to go get a damn copy, and I've just got back from a trip to my local library. I'm a pretty intense reader, so I should have it done within the next couple days, if not even by tomorrow... and I'll tell you all what I think.

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

I didn't read the whole thing (HC still wants me to). The extract linked above is the first part of the book and at that point, all was well. :)

Later, I began to really not like the book. The first chapter is an exercise in stating the bleedin' obvious as far as I was concerned and seems to be aimed at educating women who have never met a man, lol.

I found her attitude towards the whole thing very offensive, which is where my 'mysogonist' comment came in, although having read above that she displays the worst traits of both sexes, I'd agree with that.

I put the book down when she began to try dating women, I just felt it was underhand and out of order in the way she did it. She used internet dating allowing women to think she was a man and admits to using her 'woman side' in order to send the sort of emails she knew would get their attention (the women were grateful to find such a sensitive man...). She acknowledges which of the women she dates are vulnerable and this is where I used the term 'grooming', she would suggest that maybe they would like to consider sleeping with a woman. Only at the point of her getting to the bedroom did she ever admit to her genetic sex, by which time she had formed a relationship with the women which was fake on her part, but feelings on the other side were real. Of course, she'd already got them considering that they might prefer to be with a woman than a man...

I found it incredibly distasteful and on top of that, very judgemental about both sexes.

[Leah B]

I liked it, partly because I took joy in her suffering. I've heard so often that men have it easy, and I've certainly never felt that way. Sure, there's male privilege, but it comes at a price (I'd certainly trade it away, but then again, I'm unusual). It's nice to see her bubble burst by the fact that men aren't just accorded more respect, but that people expect it of us, all the time. Good ol' shadenfreude! Far too long has men's suffering been ignored. Just because we're not shafted as MUCH as women doesn't mean it's okay to shaft us.

Seriously though, there was plenty else to like. I always find it interesting to hear about trans experiences from non-trans people, because they have an entirely different POV. People who are comfortable with their sex tend to overlook the less savory aspects of it.

I didn't really detect much anti-trans seetiment from the book m'self, but what's in there might be more offensive to an FtM than an MtF.

[CaptLex]

I found it incredibly distasteful and on top of that, very judgemental about both sexes.
Oh good . . . so it's not just me. I resisted commenting on this thread 'cause I didn't want to influence anyone - but I don't like that book either. :rolleyes: