Attraction to same sex? Related to TV/TSism?

[AmandaM]

OK, some here are bi or gay, some are only bi when dressed. Can we see if there is any link to TV/TSism? Are you bi because you feel female? Or are you bi anyway? Here are some questions. Feel free to come up with your own if mine are not correct:

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag? Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?

I'll go first:
1. Just perform as female
2. I have to feel female
3. Somewhere in between

[Fitzkim]

Wow, great subject.
Let me add this question, does one CD to mask or make it easier to accept his bisexuality? Or does one just act gay or bi when in femme because that's how a female acts?
Any thoughts on that?

1.-not sure --- maybe --- just want to perform as a female sexually
2.-N/A --- never been with the same sex
3.-100% TV

[AmandaM]

I want to see if there is any weight to my pet theory that female sexuality can exist in the male TV/TS separate from gay-ness or bi-ness. I.E., you can be a female in sexual behavior/identity also and not be gay or bi, eventhough the perceived behavior may be similar.

[trannie T]

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two seperate issues.

Transgendered people (which includes crossdressers and transexuals) identify with the opposite genetic gender.

Heterosexuals are sexually attracted to people of the opposite gender.
Homosexuals are sexually attracted to people of their gender.

Studies have indicated that most crossdressers are heterosexual.

[Veronica 1]

I agree. While I might prefer to be a female, I still prefer to be with females.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I want to see if there is any weight to my pet theory that female sexuality can exist in the male TV/TS separate from gay-ness or bi-ness. I.E., you can be a female in sexual behavior/identity also and not be gay or bi, eventhough the perceived behavior may be similar.

Well, There are at least six seperate "identity " functions of the brain Sexuality(gay/ straight) is one of them and "gender identity" (TS/bio norm) is another. Either or both could be congenitally "toggled" the "wrong" way with respect to biosex---a gay man is attracted to other men, but so is a TS----who is technically "homosexual" also but for a different root reason.

The TS is the guy who wants to BE a woman, and may CD in accordance with that desire. Actual GAYS , if they CD at all would likely CD for reasons other than sexuality, as do hetro males who CD---Thrill seeking, Taboo tripping, fetishes, identity escape, etc.

Bi sexuals, so far are a bit of a puzzle to me, but I am working on it. Contrary to popular beleif, I feel that Bisexuality is not a realm somewhere between homosexual and hetrosexuality, but a different approach to sexuality alltogether, where the sex of the object of desire does not matter and is approached on a more global astetic direction. A few BIs in this forum have criticized me for this attitude, but really, they have only their own experiences to go on, which I claim are different from either homo or hetro sexual approaches and attitudes, so if I am right they wouldnt know.

There is a certian "turn off" factor in homos and hetros with respect to the sex opposite to their preference. We dont see that factor with BIs. their approach and what they are looking for is DIFFERENT. I thus conclude that BI is not the "middle ground" in sexuality but something unique and different in itself. I am still analyizing the matter. it looks very interesting.

[Mitch23]

As i get more and more into mitch and her character and personality, i am getting attracted to the idea of being on the arm of a handsome guy, being wined and dined and courted and whatever might follow ....

mitch

[kendra o'riley]

At first the mere thought of being with a guy hit the panic button. But one day I recieved an email from gent who saw my picture on a site and told me that I had selected "bi-curious" as my orientation (a mistake?) I admitted that i must've been in hurry and careless - but he pressed the issue - and asked if I had ever thought of a pair of strong arms wrapped around me nuturing my femininity to full bloom...

The rascal! I couldn't sleep for three nights solid! The thought really got to me and made me admit... maybe... just maybe...

1.Some guys leave me totally cold - but every once in a while...
2. I always feel female once the lipstick goes on
3. I'm thinking it's more like the native american concept of a "one who walks in both worlds."

[BarbaraTalbot]

I wanted to comment even though in drag or drab I have no same sex attraction..


Maybe its just me, because of not sharing those feelings. I do not want to trivialize the feelings of others.

I wonder though, if some of these feelings as expressed turn a sexual experience into a validation of ones feminine feelings.

If I walk like a duck, look like a duck and f___s like a duck, I am a duck?

And not to get judgmental because others are finding their way with confusing feelings, but wouldn't it be more fulfilling regardless of orientation if there was a closeness and dare I say a commitment to the whole of the other person before one would want to really contemplate?

I would think that a GG (and some do especially with esteem issues) are willing to "perform" as a girl because it validates them as attractive women also. I am NOT trying to be preachy at all here, it just seems tinged with lonely to me.

In any case all, be well and be happy.

[AmandaM]

Hmmm, some have posted that they must be the female if they are MTF when responding to a male. This is interesting. I know there are the classical definitiions, where if you are a man and want to be with a man, you are gay or bi. But, what if you want to be a woman with the man? Should we just call these MTF's gay or bi? Or is there something else at work here? Do they have within themselves a "female sexual identity"? Is it possible for this to be a new definition in the transgendered world?

[kendra o'riley]

I wanted to comment even though in drag or drab I have no same sex attraction..


Maybe its just me, because of not sharing those feelings. I do not want to trivialize the feelings of others.

I wonder though, if some of these feelings as expressed turn a sexual experience into a validation of ones feminine feelings.

If I walk like a duck, look like a duck and f___s like a duck, I am a duck?

And not to get judgmental because others are finding their way with confusing feelings, but wouldn't it be more fulfilling regardless of orientation if there was a closeness and dare I say a commitment to the whole of the other person before one would want to really contemplate?

I would think that a GG (and some do especially with esteem issues) are willing to "perform" as a girl because it validates them as attractive women also. I am NOT trying to be preachy at all here, it just seems tinged with lonely to me.

In any case all, be well and be happy.

Well... I must admit that Barbar raises the questions that hopefully every girls asks herself. I know one very well known CD writer has written that it was very much about validation for her. (Dr. Alice's through the looking glass)

But I think Amanda brings up a great question that I share... maybe there is another category altogether... hmmm.

[loki_uk]

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two seperate issues.

Transgendered people (which includes crossdressers and transexuals) identify with the opposite genetic gender.

Heterosexuals are sexually attracted to people of the opposite gender.
Homosexuals are sexually attracted to people of their gender.

Studies have indicated that most crossdressers are heterosexual.

Hmm aren't we really mostly closet lesbians then :heehee:

[Angie G]

I like being a girl if only for a few hours a day and only look a GG's in a wanting way no men for me hun :hugs:
Angie

[MarinaTwelve200]

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two seperate issues.

Transgendered people (which includes crossdressers and transexuals) identify with the opposite genetic gender.

Heterosexuals are sexually attracted to people of the opposite gender.
Homosexuals are sexually attracted to people of their gender.

Studies have indicated that most crossdressers are heterosexual.

I agree that sexual orentation and gender identity are two seprate issues. I would not agree with including CDs and TSs as being both necessarily identifying with the opposite genetic gender. A TS does, definately, but as CD is a practice engaged in by several various motivations, CD cannot be talked about in such a general sense. CD is a SYMPTOM of several different dissimilar conditions, and not a condition in itself. I think that a degree of TS may be the only condition wherin the person actually idintifies with the opposite gender/biosex.
Other forms of CD may have a sexual connections, but not necesarily connected with identification with the opposite gender/sex. These include fetishes, transference, S/M and escapisim. These folks CD too.

I say Hetrosexuals are those sexually attracted to the opposite BIOSEX rather than gender. And Homosexuals are attrected to the SAME biosex---these are the correct medical terms, and can serve as a basic platform to branch the terminology from. Might a hetro man be attracted to the same sex but an opposite gendered person?----yes, because a bio-hetrosexual is programmed to be attracted to a person who LOOKS like a woman, whether the person is really a woman or not---Thats the hetro drive doing that. The converse may also apply to a homo man.

[Roxi Loh]

I think I am translesbian. When I am dressed as a woman I desire to make love to a woman or someone dressed as a woman. I hope this helps.

[Zee]

I have often thought about this. Especially in those confusing teenage years. I have been CD'ing for most of my life; however privately.

My conclusion was that I do not find the male form to be, in any way, an attraction to me. Moreover, I find it almost repulsive. Being a man feels like a cruel joke.

On the other hand, I find the female form exquisite, beautiful in all shapes and wonderful to touch.

I could never be with a man. I have told my wife when we first met that I am a lesbian, trapped in a mans body. She new I liked to dress in womens clothing at the start (well close to the start) of our relationship. As such, often we are two lesbians in the sack, but just as often a normal couple.

I have no idea what others think, but in the end, for me at least, it doesn't matter. Lables do not matter, sexual orientation does not matter.

Are you happy? Thats all that should matter.

[Christen3042]

When dressed as a guy, I have absolutely no attraction to other guys (unless they are convincingly dressed en femme).

When dressed en femme, the only guys I find attractive are those who are also en femme.

I'm ALWAYS attracted to women.

If I had to have a 'description', Translesbian would probably fit quite well.

[JoannaCD]

Christen, your description fits me as well. Thanks for posting it.

[AmandaM]

I say Hetrosexuals are those sexually attracted to the opposite BIOSEX rather than gender. And Homosexuals are attrected to the SAME biosex---these are the correct medical terms, and can serve as a basic platform to branch the terminology from. Might a hetro man be attracted to the same sex but an opposite gendered person?----yes, because a bio-hetrosexual is programmed to be attracted to a person who LOOKS like a woman, whether the person is really a woman or not---Thats the hetro drive doing that. The converse may also apply to a homo man.

It seems to me that the definition of homo and het might be too constraining. I am wondering if the TV/TS can truly become female sexually in identity. If a TV/TS dresses as a woman, then personifies a woman, it would tend to make sense that the TV/TS can also "become" a woman sexually (meaning an internal mental identity). If so, then the definition of homosexual cannot apply as it is not a man with man situation. You could of course make the argument that it's a bioman with a bioman, but that assumes that there is no internal shift of internal sexual identity. What do you think? Can this internal sexual identity exist, and can it shift from male to female in alignment with the gender identity shift?

[kendra o'riley]

It seems to me that the definition of homo and het might be too constraining. I am wondering if the TV/TS can truly become female sexually in identity. If a TV/TS dresses as a woman, then personifies a woman, it would tend to make sense that the TV/TS can also "become" a woman sexually (meaning an internal mental identity). If so, then the definition of homosexual cannot apply as it is not a man with man situation. You could of course make the argument that it's a bioman with a bioman, but that assumes that there is no internal shift of internal sexual identity. What do you think? Can this internal sexual identity exist, and can it shift from male to female in alignment with the gender identity shift?

As we've no doubt seen in the few postings here we have many different points of view. Applying medical terms helps for some - but others like myself have trouble accepting someone else's description of our own feelings and experiences. I'm starting to accept that there is a part of me that (for you Amana) identifies internally as a female. Admitedly, this is my concept of "female" based on observation, experience and...
a little feeling inside that is... She.

[MarinaTwelve200]

You could of course make the argument that it's a bioman with a bioman, but that assumes that there is no internal shift of internal sexual identity. What do you think? Can this internal sexual identity exist, and can it shift from male to female in alignment with the gender identity shift?

I have read accounts where this APPEARS to happen, but assuming the CD is not normally homo or Bi, it may be based on a psychological "obsession" as being something one "needs" to complete his female persona identity---its not "sexual", but more on the order of "needing" a speciall dress or a wig to make his CD session "complete". The guy being essentually part of the "dressing".

As a CD, I "need" my lipstick and a bra at LEAST or my CD session will not work or be "unsatisfying"---Most hetro CDs are like me in this respect, but I can see how a FEW might feel that they NEED the "man" too to complete themselves. This is not the same thing as being sexually attracted to him, but rather an essential "prop" like Lipstick or a wig.=====Thats my theory anyway concerning cases where it appears that a straight hetro guy becomes "Bi" or "Gay" only when he dresses----its essentially "illusinary" and hard to see in the "pink fog".

[sarah378619]

I do not like men sexually. I like women and even more so when dressed. I guess that would make me lesbian since my gender is on the female side.I think sexual orientation and gender identity are two different issues.I think quite a few crossdressers fall into the lesbian category. it is an interesting concept to think about.
Sarah

[AmandaM]

I have read accounts where this APPEARS to happen, but assuming the CD is not normally homo or Bi, it may be based on a psychological "obsession" as being something one "needs" to complete his female persona identity---its not "sexual", but more on the order of "needing" a speciall dress or a wig to make his CD session "complete". The guy being essentually part of the "dressing".

I was wondering how you would define the difference between this sort of crossdresser and a transsexual who starts out as a man dating women and upon sex change, dates men exclusively?

[MarinaTwelve200]

I was wondering how you would define the difference between this sort of crossdresser and a transsexual who starts out as a man dating women and upon sex change, dates men exclusively?

Well In the case I mentioned I was talking about a hetro CD who appeared to be attracted to men only when he dressed.

A Transsexual is just that, a transsexual--- a male born with a 'female" brain to start with. She would inherently, in her mind, be attracted to men. Before transition though, may date women only for social conformist reasons---upon transition would feel free to her real calling--dating men.

[renee99]

I'm confused by the term "female sexual identity". Are we talking about a 'top' versus a 'bottom'?

[Hippy Chic]

What's with this translesbian stuff?

Hang on - when I wear mens clothes, I fancy women. When I wear girls clothes, I still fancy women.

That makes me a straight man doesn't it?

[Alex!]

I'm 100% straight guy, and the idea of getting intimate with a dude, even if he looks awesome en femme, turns me off immediately. Hanging out is one thing, getting frisky is way out of the question. Most of my crossdressing friends are the same way.

I like women. Period. So much so I sometimes dress like one, apparently :)

[Deborah Jane]

I only ever fancy women! Dressing as a woman doesn,t change my sexual preferance!!

[AmandaM]

Well In the case I mentioned I was talking about a hetro CD who appeared to be attracted to men only when he dressed.

A Transsexual is just that, a transsexual--- a male born with a 'female" brain to start with. She would inherently, in her mind, be attracted to men. Before transition though, may date women only for social conformist reasons---upon transition would feel free to her real calling--dating men.

Based on what you just said, if you are correct, then the TS is only "uncovering" their true desires. But, are those desires gay or bi, or just femaleness? And if they are just femaleness, does the same go for TVs with TS tendencies? I am assuming here that the classical fetishistic transvestite is only gay or bi. Of course, my next thought is that the TV with TS tendencies desires' could be a mix of gay/bi AND femaleness. I wonder if those competing desires, if true, can be decoupled from each other? Ouch, my brain hurts...

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

It's really not that complicated.

There is biological sex.
There is gender.
There is sexuality.


In a simple world, a male would be totally masculine and attracted to women. Women would be completely feminine and attracted to men.

It's not a simple world and sex, gender and sexuality are not all linked.

A man can be feminine and be attracted to women - he's straight.

A woman might be feminine and be attracted to women - she's lesbian.

I don't get the confusion here. Just accept that while sex, gender and sexuality are not linked, all of us sit at different places on each line.

[AmandaM]

I would agree with you except for some issues. Myself, as well as some other CDers are not attracted to masculinity. I could never be a man with a man. I never look at men with desire, only women. But, when dressed, and feeling especially feminine, I've been drawn to a couple of men. It makes me wonder if there is a causal link between feminine identity and sexuality that is not covered by the general categories of gay or bi. For instance, gay assumes a man attracted to other men, but MTF TS's are not men. Therefore, where do they fit? And if they are not gay, then what about those TVs with TS tendencies? Do you see where I'm going? I'm thinking the categories of gay, bi, and straight are not sufficient to cover the transgendered, and that a female sexual identity can exist as well as a female gender identity in the transgendered. Would you say that this so-called female sexual identity does not exist?



It's really not that complicated.

There is biological sex.
There is gender.
There is sexuality.


In a simple world, a male would be totally masculine and attracted to women. Women would be completely feminine and attracted to men.

It's not a simple world and sex, gender and sexuality are not all linked.

A man can be feminine and be attracted to women - he's straight.

A woman might be feminine and be attracted to women - she's lesbian.

I don't get the confusion here. Just accept that while sex, gender and sexuality are not linked, all of us sit at different places on each line.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Based on what you just said, if you are correct, then the TS is only "uncovering" their true desires. But, are those desires gay or bi, or just femaleness? And if they are just femaleness, does the same go for TVs with TS tendencies? I am assuming here that the classical fetishistic transvestite is only gay or bi. Of course, my next thought is that the TV with TS tendencies desires' could be a mix of gay/bi AND femaleness. I wonder if those competing desires, if true, can be decoupled from each other? Ouch, my brain hurts...

I think your problem is that you consider CD/TV in a similar category to something like a TS or a BI. CD or TV is something one DOES-- not what one IS. a CD may be TS. BI, straight or Gay. We CD for different reasons, not only to get in touch with a fem side, but things totally unrelated to that, like excapisim or SM or fetishes.

Things will be clearer if you just think in terms of sexuality, gender and biosex and the different combinations you can get.---leave CD/TV out of it-- its just something one may or may not DO as an adjunct or a response to one or more of these underlying conditions. NO one is "a CD" in the same way they are a TS or whatever.

[basehitter]

1. Just perform as female
2. I have to feel female



have yet to have sex.

I do feel turned on to men when i am in female cloths but only in female cloths.

[BarbaraTalbot]

either one has an 'inner girl' or you don't. Clothes may help you express to others how you feel inside. Your desires sexually at the core shouldn't be dependent on how you dress at any particular moment.

If your inner girl likes to be with men, (or men in skirts) or girls, or girls in suits, or whatever, then your inner girl wants that particular thing.

If dressing changes that, The only thing that makes sense is that some portion of your conscious self is uncomfortable with or conflicted by same gender attraction. It sounds to me that a person like you describe (and I think it is not uncommon) are either bi-sexual or in fact actually homosexual at their core, and have learned to use dressing as a way of giving themselves permission to act in ways that they don't or cannot acknowledge to themselves.

I would think the first thing to determine is what ones orientation really is. Once that is figured out, It makes sense to think of crossdressing as a fetish component. In other words, If one acknowledges one is gay or bisexual, then it is at least internally consistent to say I and gay or bisexual, and as it pertains to being with men, I find it more fun/comfortable/sexy to be dressed as a girl when I engage sexually with them.

Kind of cart before the horse. Dressing or gender feelings cant cause orientation feelings, but orientation feelings could cause gender questions or interest in dressing.


OK another thought occurred to me about another type of cd'r with these sort of orientation inconsistencies. IN that case I wonder if the urge to add an experience with a man to their resume, if that is from casting about trying to wear/feel/and act like how they perceive a gg would. In these instances what I see between the lines are those that haven't actually followed through, aren't real clear about what it is that they find attractive about men, just kind of want that seal of approval. It just doesn't make sense to me if the interest is almost in the form of adding yet another accessory to ones wardrobe, a man at the elbow, or er wherever.

[dakota_ann69]

I am not bi and I know that I am not gay. I seek only to be with women and one woman in particular my SO. Just because I enjoy being a woman I cannot even dream of allowing myself to be with a man!! YUCK!! Sorry just doesn't work for me!! When I am with my woman I assure you I am all man!! LOL. As for the last I like to crossdress plain and simple.

[raleighbelle]

I have found this topic very interesting. I discussed it a bit in my intro. Unlike many of the people answering it, I do have different feelings depending on how I am dressed.

As a male, in male clothing, I have absolutely no attraction to or desire for other men. Never did.
When dressed, or in my female role, I do find the idea of sex with a man stimulating and desirable, in part perhaps as a fulfillment of my role as a female. In that situation, I only have the desire to be a woman, in the female sexual role (rather difficult to do I will admit), with no interest in male to male attraction. But in my fantasies of this, it is always with a 'faceless' male. I have never looked at a man or a photo of a man and found him to be sexually attractive, or wanted to have sex with him. I would have to be dressed (at least until undressed, but would still have some clothing or make-up on). I have so far never had sex with another man. Despite what I have said above, I am always still very interested in other women, even in my female role. I have never had sex with a woman while dressed, but I think it would be incredible. I kind of like the 'translesbian' concept that was brought up earlier in these discussions.

I know that answer sounds confused, and it is. Doesn't make sense, but that is the way it is for me. I hope I answered the questions you were asking.

[ericalynne]

Just to add my own feelings: First I must say that dressed or not I always feel femme in my heart and soul. Having said that, I could never be attracted to a man unlessed I amd dressed and in full and total female mode. Then I could be attracted to a man, in the sense that a woman would be attractive to a man, which in my mind is totally normal behavior. But having said that as well, the man mujst be gentle, kind, understanding, loving, sympathetic. I would never be attracted to a total macho type. I don't know if I have answered the question. Just some random thoughts from one who has always known she was a woman.

[CaptLex]

A Transsexual is just that, a transsexual--- a male born with a 'female" brain to start with. She would inherently, in her mind, be attracted to men. Before transition though, may date women only for social conformist reasons---upon transition would feel free to her real calling--dating men.
:eek: What?! I had to read that twice to make sure I read it right. Do you really believe that all transwomen have to be attracted to men? Their "true calling"? And they only date women for "social conformist reasons"? So, you don't think there are lesbian transwomen? I still can't believe what I'm reading . . . let me read it again . . . :rolleyes:


I am not bi and I know that I am not gay. I seek only to be with women and one woman in particular my SO. Just because I enjoy being a woman I cannot even dream of allowing myself to be with a man!! YUCK!! Sorry just doesn't work for me!! When I am with my woman I assure you I am all man!! LOL. As for the last I like to crossdress plain and simple.
Well goody for you hun, but please don't be so judgmental. I'm not attracted to women, but I would never be rude enough to say, "Ewww . . . sex with women, yuck!"

Seriously, what's with all the *$#%&! homophobia around here? :Angry3:

[AmandaM]

Seriously people! No more yucks, no more gay=bad, no more bible=bad. OK?

OK, let's redefine my question. Let's leave out all crossdressers. Let's just talk about transsexuals. Are MTF transsexuals gay or bi if they like men or are they just women liking men? Why?

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

I would agree with you except for some issues. Myself, as well as some other CDers are not attracted to masculinity. I could never be a man with a man. I never look at men with desire, only women. But, when dressed, and feeling especially feminine, I've been drawn to a couple of men. It makes me wonder if there is a causal link between feminine identity and sexuality that is not covered by the general categories of gay or bi. For instance, gay assumes a man attracted to other men, but MTF TS's are not men. Therefore, where do they fit? And if they are not gay, then what about those TVs with TS tendencies? Do you see where I'm going? I'm thinking the categories of gay, bi, and straight are not sufficient to cover the transgendered, and that a female sexual identity can exist as well as a female gender identity in the transgendered. Would you say that this so-called female sexual identity does not exist?

I do see where you're coming from, but the problem is that gender, biological sex and sexuality are presumed to overlap and all have something in common. It's not true.

With all of them, there are 2 extremes, most of us happily identify ourselves somewhere near the extreme on all three.

When crossdressing, your gender is the only thing that changes, you allow more of your feminine side out to play than you usually do. Women are more often attracted to the same sex (just for now I am talking about in a non-sexual way). You're far more likely to hear a straight GG state, "She's gorgeous!" than you are to hear a straight GM claim that another man is a hunk. I can glare at some Hollywood actress for being gorgeous without wanting to sleep with her. If at any time you are attracted enough to a man to consider sleeping with him, regardless of dress, then you probably have bi-sexual tendancies (don't ask me to quote anything, but studies show that it's more common to have bi-sexual tendancies than to be totally straight). If changing your gender allows the bi-sexual tendancies to come out, so be it - dressing allows a lot of suppressed emotion, behaviour and feeling to be dealt with. :)

As far as TS goes, they identify their gender very strongly with the opposite biological sex. Sexuality again, is not anything to do with this. A GM TS may be attracted to either sex, though I'd hazzard a guess that if you live as a woman, feel like a woman, look like a woman and never consider yourself as anything else, then to sleep with a GG woman could be considered as lesbian. It's not up to me to place those labels on anyone.



GGs...back me up here...a man dressed like a woman during sex is like, well, a woman!! (gasp!)

Sorry to disappoint. :( When it comes to sex, it is the physical form of a male that I want and enjoy. He looks like a man, feels like a man, behaves like a man - and trying not to be too crude here - the 'mechanics' are those of a man. If I couldn't be promised the 'end result', lol, then I frankly wouldn't have any interest whatsoever.

He may be more feminine than if he'd been in boxer shorts all day, but his feminine side is a part of him I love. The attraction and the turn on is that biologically he's a pretty sexy dude!

It's the whole package that I love, but the man that I go to bed with.




To explain further how I perceive this:

Gender - masculine or feminine, most of us have bits of both. I do believe that in today's society it's far more acceptable for GGs to show their masculine side and every day dress accepts both masculine and feminine items. I reckon that's why there are so few GG CDs, we get every opportunity - without ridicule - of showing both parts of us. I reckon HC is closer to the feminine on that line than I am.

Biological Sex - man or woman and usually pretty quick and easy to check. ;) In the case of those with TS, they feel their body is the wrong one and that's more than fair enough. Gender and sexuality don't come into feeling that your biological sex is wrong.

Sexuality - you're straight, gay or bi. As I said above, most people appear to be bisexual rather than completley straight. It has nothing to do with gender or biological sex, it's a simple case of who/what you're attracted to.

So, I'm female, around half and half on the gender line and straight. HC is male, probably about the same on the gender line (but slightly more feminine) and straight. Clothing changes none of this, only in the way that it allows certain aspects of the self to come out to play. :)

[Billiemarie]

Yes I want to be fem, and enjoy a man. I want to wear the bra and the other thing too. A nice older man that takes me out on a date with the idea of getting in my panties but that doesn't mean him wearing them. lol

[kristiCD]

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag? Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?


1. yes, perform as female sexually
2. must feel female, do feel female
3. CD with a strong exhibitionist streak

[Desiree2bababe]

OK, some here are bi or gay, some are only bi when dressed. Can we see if there is any link to TV/TSism? Are you bi because you feel female? I suppose so. Or are you bi anyway? NoHere are some questions. Feel free to come up with your own if mine are not correct:

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag?YES Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?I merely want to perform
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?YES
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?I suppose a TV with gay tendencies[/COLOR]

Basically I experimented with men as a teenager due to my mother's strict rules on no premartial sex. I have always loved women and always have had beautiful girlfriends. My first encounter with a man was at the age of 15. Many men have come and gone since but only while dressed. Bringing a man to pleasure while dressed makes me feel feminine and a bit of a ****. I suppose women are my choice of preference however and the coming of the transsexual age is wonderful. I especially love those who choose to keep their male appendages in working order.



See replies in pink

[Lisa Golightly]

Hormones affect the way you feel.... True, true, true :)

[Corinna E]

i have a girlfriend and am very attracted to her....often times though even in male mode i feel like its only appropriate that i act as a female, wish i could be female all the time and plan on having surgery. As weird as it sounds i would really classify myself as a lesbian/bi female. i am attracted to men and my deepest fantasy's come from being with men and being their girl but at the same time im extremely attracted to my girlfriend and females in whole.


what a life we live!!

<3 cori

[Fab Karen]

A Transsexual is just that, a transsexual--- a male born with a 'female" brain to start with. She would inherently, in her mind, be attracted to men. Before transition though, may date women only for social conformist reasons---upon transition would feel free to her real calling--dating men.

"real calling- dating men"? You've made the assumption that all women are heterosexual, which of course isn't reality.

[misstoni]

The guy thing is a special one for me. I don't have the least bit of attraction to men. However my femme side has no problem flirting with guys who see my femme image (either in person or online). I don't push the envelope, I make it clear that I am in no way sexually attracted to them and I make sure never to cross lines. Still, batting an eyelash, enjoying compliments and being nice can feel good.

I'm prety open minded and I don't see anything wrong with a girl like us being with a man. Though I don't share that desire, I get it. I probably would do it if I could get over the fact that I just don't find men appealing. I can't see myself being with anyone who doesn't turn me on.

For me the idea of a man is appealing. The idea of being treated like a woman by a man is appealing. I have seen it in simple things like men holding doors open for me, dancing, or just approaching me. I like those things, they feel good. Anything too much beyond that is crossing the line for me.

[Melissa Pink]

I have been living full time as a female for about three months. When I was all male I considered myself very bisexual... I liked the sensuality and tenderness of sex with women....but I also like being a bottom for a male that knew how to please me. Every time I engaged in guy-guy sex even while crossdressed I always felt guilty afterwards. I had been cross dressing for years, initially only during acceptable periods (e.g. Halloween and Mardi Gras) Gradually, I gained more confidence and began going to clubs and out and about as "Melissa". It was liberating for me. Now when I'm attracted to a male and subsequently go to bed with him the guilt is largely gone, but Melissa is thankfully no where near as permiscuous as my former male persona :heehee:. My crossdressing friends friend range from rather conservative "straight" crossdressers to flamboyant drag queens. I think that we have to do what feels right for us in and out of the bedroom. I am one of those girls that is a bit more than a crossdresser and not quite a transgender....not sure what that makes me besides androgynous. I'm intrigued about the idea of having a BA... but I have no interest in hormones or GRS. Does that sound weird?

[SirTrey]

:eek: What?! I had to read that twice to make sure I read it right. Do you really believe that all transwomen have to be attracted to men? Their "true calling"? And they only date women for "social conformist reasons"? So, you don't think there are lesbian transwomen? I still can't believe what I'm reading . . . let me read it again . . . :rolleyes:


Well goody for you hun, but please don't be so judgmental. I'm not attracted to women, but I would never be rude enough to say, "Ewww . . . sex with women, yuck!"

Seriously, what's with all the *$#%&! homophobia around here? :Angry3:


I am with you, CaptLex....I am attracted to men by genetics, but who tend to be femme by gender identity....In other words, I am attracted to MtF's...I think a lot of people are confusing CD and TS....For CD's, it's the clothes and the way that they feel when they wear them...For TS's, it's about who you are on the inside...I am a man....If I put a dress on right now, I would still be a man...I would be crossdressing....even though I am genetically female....This is one reason that I hate labels....Because I am transmasculine and attracted to men, does that make Me gay? Or am I straight because I tend to be attracted to transgirls, regardless of their biological make-up? I think everyone floats how they float and they are who they are....I do think, though, that this is the LAST place that I would expect to find homophobia....Why can't we all just get along? Why the judging? I just don't get it.....**Trey**

[Chrissy8888]

This is a very interesting post and every reply is very well written and thought out. As I read each reply (and I may be missing all the points) I feel like everybody is trying to justify their actions. Well that is a good thing however I don't feel you should go through life trying to justify yourself but rather just be who you are and love yourself for that. I think gender identification is the most understudied facet of human life. I am not sure that it can ever be studied properly. I just believe that as long as nobody is getting hurt if it is right in your mind than it is right for you.

[Valerie]

While I often suspected I could be bisexual before I fully accepted that when I was dressed as a woman I was fully myself, at that point (when I accepted myself as a crossdresser) I absolutely lost all interest in men. On the contrary, their sad-looking fashions and brusque behavior turns me off, while women look to me elegant, intelligent, admirable.

Valerie

[tvbeckytv]

Originally Posted by amandachick
I want to see if there is any weight to my pet theory that female sexuality can exist in the male TV/TS separate from gay-ness or bi-ness. I.E., you can be a female in sexual behavior/identity also and not be gay or bi, eventhough the perceived behavior may be similar.

I think that linking TV and TS hopelessly muddies the water.
.


no, i think the original post is absolutely spot on, for some of us.
Technically, i do not feel i quite fit the classic transexual model. But there are aspects of me that do. I often describe myself as being 'gay' as its just a broard description of my sexuality. But in reality, i dont feel 'gay', and i certainly do not identify as being a 'gay man'. But then im sure not a straight woman either.
gender identity and sexual orientation are indeed different things....but they can influence each other also...they are not completely divorced.
For me, as a male, i have no interest at all in sexual goings on. I am aware that i am homosexual, but i have no sexual desires while being a 'man'.... as a transvestite it does bring with it a sexuality. My desires towards men are to be with them in an exclussively femme role ... yet i still am comfortable percieving myself as homosexual.
really i think i identify more as a 'third gender'... i have aspects of both, but am neither.
anyways, whether or not its common i dont know, but i fully support the theory put forward by the opening post....for some of us at least.

[lawnmanmo]

OK, some here are bi or gay, some are only bi when dressed. Can we see if there is any link to TV/TSism? Are you bi because you feel female? Or are you bi anyway? Here are some questions. Feel free to come up with your own if mine are not correct:

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag? Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?

I'll go first:
1. Just perform as female
2. I have to feel female
3. Somewhere in between

Now here is one which is just the opposite. As a male admirer, when I am with regular men as regular men...there is no attraction whats so ever on my part in a sexual nature BUT yet when I am with an attractive CD male/women, the bells and whistles go off like there is no tomorrow. I can look at these pics here on the forum of some of you girls and the sparks start to fly....go figure. Thats why when I say to you girls that when you dress as women and you LOOK THE PART, you do without trying attractive men like myself. Its all part of the game.
Jerry

[DawnRodgers]

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag? Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?

I'll go first:
1. Just perform as female
2. I have to feel female
3. Somewhere in between

Dawn is definitely attracted to men both as a girl friend and as a girlfriend. Want them to treat me as a woman and i want to treat them as a woman does a man - that includes sex.
I do have to feel female. I dress completely with full makeup, jewelry, perfume, clothing, underwear, mannerisms. Relate to a man as a woman. Want to be held, kissed and cuddled. Most definitely want sex too.
I am a TV with TS leanings and a feminine brain.

[My Lady Marsea]

WOW this is deep girls. Here's a word I found in here and like...Translesbian. I only want to be a women because I love their world and only want to be with a women and try to make love as two women. It HAS crossed my little brain though that IF I were somehow ever involved with a man (and ONLY while femme) I better darn well be the women half LOL. So far I have not reached any of these bridges and don't know if fate will bring me there, guess it's just one of those go with the moment things.

[tvbeckytv]

You miss my point completely.

Amandachick is asking whether or not someone born male can have "female sexuality" or "female ... sexual behavior" without being gay/bisexual, even though it looks like gay behavior. She initially lumped TV and TS women together in this question.

I have a *bunch* of problems with the underlying assumptions to this question...

.


i certainly agree that there are a bunch of problems with that assumption... but so are there with just about any assuption you care to make.
You, clearly, are making assumptions about what a TV is...assumptions which are not always true.
regardless of transexuality, "People" have facets of their identity that can be a mixture of typically male and typically female.
i dont think i did miss the point of the original post, or your replies. i just happen not to completley agree with your view.
But i dont really want to get involved with transexual identity. i think the question stands just as well if the "ts" were dropped, and is somewhat more interesting too

[tvbeckytv]

1.

I'll go first:
1. Just perform as female
2. I have to feel female
3. Somewhere in between

Dawn is definitely attracted to men both as a girl friend and as a girlfriend. Want them to treat me as a woman and i want to treat them as a woman does a man - that includes sex.
I do have to feel female. I dress completely with full makeup, jewelry, perfume, clothing, underwear, mannerisms. Relate to a man as a woman. Want to be held, kissed and cuddled. Most definitely want sex too.
I am a TV with TS leanings and a feminine brain.

i would kinda go along with this, but where i differ is that i do not have to feel that i am "female", rather that i am "feminine". the distinction works for me as i hate the whole pretence thing. i am not playing at being a woman, i am just being me... womanly but not a woman. I dont have a normal male identity either...this is it, whether wearing a dress or not.

[Pamela Julie]

All the labels being tossed around here is dizzying. Many people have different thoughts as to what a given label means. Labels should mean nothing to an individual because you are what you are. I am me, that's all. Labels only mean something to others, and if they don't agree with another person on the definition of a given label, then there is miscommunication.

The labels that do matter have to do with the general population's perception of what they think they see. If they see what looks like two of the same sex , they will assume they are homosexuals. If they see what appears to be two of the opposite sex, they will assume they are heterosexuals. If they see a person sometimes with a person of each sex, the perception in bisexual, regardless of whether the persons involved are GG, GM, TS, TV, CD, straight, gay or bi.

Between consenting adults labels don't matter. Many like myself have found labels of some use at times, such as internet research, finding clubs, etc. Please do not let a label given you by another matter at all. If they are correct in your mind, good. If they are wrong in your mind, either let it go, or educate them if they are receptive to it, don't let it get you down.

I have several labels for myself, used only where necessary, which is seldom. Label one, crossdresser because I enjoy wearing ladies clothing and underwear, including breastforms. Label two is male as this is how I was born, and how I present myself in public most of the time, and how I live my life. Label three is transsexual as I feel inside I am a woman 24/7, and desire to be a woman externally. Label four heterosexual as I only desire sex with women, or at least those that have the external functioning parts of a woman and look like women regardless of whether I am crossdressing or not.

If I ever transition all the way, SRS, hormones, permanent hair removal, voice alterations, etc., my labels would change also. First I would be female, second a lesbian. I would no longer be crossdressing as I would dress appropriate to my new sex. I would no longer be transsexual because I would no longer be between sexes in any way, I would be female. I would no longer be heterosexual because my desire for women exclusively would be homosexual, a lesbian.

In summary, if labels matter to you, it is up to you to determine what labels are appropriate for the individual, keeping in mind how that individual feels about the meaning of the label. Also labels change over time as people change. Never let a label get you down as in the end they don't matter anyway!

With love and respect to all of you regardless of any labels,
PJ

[AmandaM]

I don't care about labels, only psychology.

It seems as though MTF TS's are considered straight if they are attracted to men. This would imply that their identity is female. It seems that MTF TV's are considered gay if they like men. This would imply that their identity is male. This still doesn't cover those who feel they have some TS tendencies. Should we consider them gay, and then flip a switch, if they realize they are TS? Is this the definition everyone would agree to? Does this definition not take into account their confusion? If someone is somewhere between TV, which is considered gay above, and TS, which is not, can we call them one or the other? Oooorrrrrrr..... could they also contain a female identity as TS's do, albeit not as well-developed?

[Tamara Croft]

This still doesn't cover those who feel they have some TS tendencies. Should we consider them gay, and then flip a switch, if they realize they are TS?TS tendencies? realize they are TS? are you joking? You 'know' if you are TS, it's wired from birth... you can't just flip a switch one day and say... oh I'm 'now' a TS... but I was a CD before... Ask any TS, they have always known deep inside what true gender they really are.

[randi_789]

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag? Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?

1. I am attracted to a man when I am dressed, but only in how it makes me feel feminine. I want to be as female as possible for him, and that would include performing sexually as a female. But when I am not dressed I am in no way attracted to a man.
2. Being with a man makes me feel female. To have him hold me and kiss me and treat me as a female is the best.
3.TV. No desire to transition.

[Joanne f]

I read once where a psychologist said that everyone would be bi if they let go of all there prejudice and got in touch with their innerself`s.



joanne

[Sally-Ann]

Between consenting adults labels don't matter.

:thumbsup: Bravo! That's the most important point - as long as the parties concerned are consenting adults, who care's what they call themselves.

Labels are nothing more than a convenience, a shorthand, a way of establishing a basic common perception before clarification of individual circumstances occurs.

[Sally-Ann]

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag? Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?
More in drag than not, but not exclusively.

2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?
No. I can engage with persons of either gender regardless of what I'm wearing.

3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?
Fetishistic CD.

[Denielleinheels]

I am just throwing this out there tho' possibly off the subject. Why do "straight" men want to be with crossdressers? I get tons of offers regularly by men who swear to straighthood. Just throwing that out there to ponder.

For me I have said this many times here. I have an extra X in my makeup and am everybit as female as I am male. Gender wise I relate female without a shadow of a doubt. I definately believe that how anyone really is must be right to them and who they are with. That is really all that matters.:2c:

[Rosaliy Lynne]

I read once where a psychologist said that everyone would be bi if they let go of all there prejudice and got in touch with their innerself`s.



joanne

My gay friend and neighbor says much the same thing.


I am just throwing this out there tho' possibly off the subject. Why do "straight" men want to be with crossdressers? I get tons of offers regularly by men who swear to straighthood. Just throwing that out there to ponder.

For me I have said this many times here. I have an extra X in my makeup and am everybit as female as I am male. Gender wise I relate female without a shadow of a doubt. I definately believe that how anyone really is must be right to them and who they are with. That is really all that matters.:2c:

My theory on this may be out in left field BUT here it is anyway. Straight guys don't want to admit they may be attracted to other guys. It upsets their sense of manhood and yet, if they were honest with themselves, they would have to admit to being at least bi. So they seek cd/tv girls so that they can preserve the illusion of being straight and having sex with a woman.

[Sally-Ann]

It upsets their sense of manhood...

I'd be inclined to phrase that more as "It upsets the perceived societal pressures to be pure hetrosexual,"

[tvbeckytv]

TS tendencies? realize they are TS? are you joking? You 'know' if you are TS, it's wired from birth... you can't just flip a switch one day and say... oh I'm 'now' a TS... but I was a CD before... Ask any TS, they have always known deep inside what true gender they really are.

i dont think that was quite what was meant from the phrase. Not everyone fits perfectly into their little box. there used to be a yahoo group called, "not 100% transexual", and it had quite a membership.

[Denielleinheels]

I sorta feel like why are we trying to label ourselves when we have gotten mad about others trying to label us? It isn't cut and dry and we are all different.

[Denielleinheels]

I agree... if it is in a skirt and heels it is female. No matter how much they know there is more under there.



My gay friend and neighbor says much the same thing.



My theory on this may be out in left field BUT here it is anyway. Straight guys don't want to admit they may be attracted to other guys. It upsets their sense of manhood and yet, if they were honest with themselves, they would have to admit to being at least bi. So they seek cd/tv girls so that they can preserve the illusion of being straight and having sex with a woman.

[AmandaM]

No, I'm not joking. If there is such a thing as "gender spectrum", then you are not addressing it. If we can call a TV gay, and a TS straight, then what of those in-between? Calling them bi only regards their physical body. Do we not try to expand on it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamara Croft
TS tendencies? realize they are TS? are you joking? You 'know' if you are TS, it's wired from birth... you can't just flip a switch one day and say... oh I'm 'now' a TS... but I was a CD before... Ask any TS, they have always known deep inside what true gender they really are.

i dont think that was quite what was meant from the phrase. Not everyone fits perfectly into their little box. there used to be a yahoo group called, "not 100&#37; transexual", and it had quite a membership.>>

[Denise Marie]

I don't crossdress to attract the same sex,I do find that been dressed in the company of a women is very sexy :devil:.To be honest I find this a massive turn on.I have suggested to my wife role reversal since are sex life has become boring and uninteresting.If we were both dressed in the same Olga gowns with all the trimming then WOW.For the minute I just have to keep dreaming because I know in my own heart this isn't going to happen.

Whizzy

[monikkkka]

I can't stand looking at a man in drab, in drab myself...it makes me sick

enfemme and I am not attracted to men in drab though.

but another MTF? another man htats feminin with clothes, mannerisms etc. but still has something extra...that blows my whistle!

Does that make me bi? gay? straight? don't know, don't think so and probably somewhere between all of those.

lol forgive the pun

In cultural anthropology, I was taught that "race" is not a good term, but gave some small minded peple the ability to group people and generalize. I abandoned race for "spectrum"...which is even more true today. Same now is true for sexual orientation and gender.

One of these days we will all breathe a sigh of relief when we realize everyone is an individual with their own tastes, orientations etc. There are no labels, there is just human.

:2c:

[Darla in Pa.]

Marina, I think you just like to baffle with bull**** just my take of it

[annekathleen]

I don't think there is any correlation between cross dressing and sexual preference. There are non cross dressers who are straight, bi, or gay.
There are cross dressers who are straight, bi , or gay.
AND to put the minds of many at ease...NOT all crossdressers are bi or gay.
......but we already discussed this thread.
There are cross dressers who are into hot rod cars, motorcycles and snowmobiles, There are cross dressers who are into hunting and fishing.
There are cross dressers who are into hand guns and rifles.
There are cross dressers who are in law enforcement, construction, public office, sales, etc....but I don't want to give away too much about myself!!! tee hee hee.

[tinastone]

I totally agree that most guys that date T girls are probably rationalizing their sexual preference. But ironically I don't consider the men I date as gay because I identify as a woman. My sister calls me a heterosexual female who is hormonally challenged.

[lawnmanmo]

At first the mere thought of being with a guy hit the panic button. But one day I recieved an email from gent who saw my picture on a site and told me that I had selected "bi-curious" as my orientation (a mistake?) I admitted that i must've been in hurry and careless - but he pressed the issue - and asked if I had ever thought of a pair of strong arms wrapped around me nuturing my femininity to full bloom...

The rascal! I couldn't sleep for three nights solid! The thought really got to me and made me admit... maybe... just maybe...

1.Some guys leave me totally cold - but every once in a while...
2. I always feel female once the lipstick goes on
3. I'm thinking it's more like the native american concept of a "one who walks in both worlds."

Dear Kendra
Let me tell you something from another "admirer" out here...HE'S RIGHT....You could never know the wonderful feelings that come to the surface of a CD women when she lets go and becomes THAT women...even for a few precious moments. And I am NOT talking just sexual here. A simple walk hand in hand in a mall playing "hubby and wife" will send you to the moon. Believe me hon.
Jerry