Crossing the border en femme...

[Dita_B]

I am planning a trip South of the border and I am contemplating the idea to go dressed en femme.

Now the main obstacle is of course crossing the Canadian/US border and the US border guards are not really known for their sense of humor these days. I wonder what I would encounter when presenting myself as a female and hand over my male passport.

I don't really care disclosing the fact that I am a cross dresser, actually, I can't care less. And since I love to raise the bar on my challenges while en femme, the idea of border crossing en femme has become really attractive.

The only hesitation I have is to become the subject of humiliation, for instance being forced to take my wig off in plain public. I wouldn't appreciate that.

Are there any in this forum who have experience traveling long distance and dodging similar challenges? Like perhaps flying and having to deal with border guards and/or security?

I would love to get some input and/or opinions about the idea...

Thanks, :love:Dita.

[Kendra Irene]

Dita
We drove down for the day, just last week. I presented my passport for ID (picture was showing me clean shaven). The border gaurd wanted to see some ID with my current photo on it. (beard) Fortunately my drivers liscence picture was current.

He didn't say if he would have refuses us entry if I hadn't shown a current photo ID.

Kendra

[Melinda G]

Why set yourself up for trouble with the fun folks at Homeland Security, and Customs? They might just decide on a full body cavity search, just because they don't like CDers. Why take a chance?

[Di]

Well I noticed you are married...will your wife be with you?If so I would ask her how she feels about it and go from there.My :2c: I would not take a chance unless it is that important to you to do this......the much easier way would be present as your passport or drivers liciense.

[Michelle S]

You might call the U.S. Embassy or a consulate and ask about this. You can find a list of U.S. consulates in Canada here:

http://usembassy.state.gov/

Maybe you should also check with the Canadian government rather than just assume only the U.S. border guards might be a problem.

[christiecd]

I would strongly recommend against it... I definitely don't think it's worth the hassle or even the potential risk o f the hassle.

[Sheri 4242]

If you were going to, or coming from, Mexico, I'd say "absolutely no way" that you should attempt this. Canada is a different situation! Having said that, in this post 9-11 world, and with the Homeland Security always being on hightened alert, and with the Patriot Act granting the power, right or wrong, that it does, I'd check things out completely!!!

Perhaps the best way to check this out would be to go to the Esprit Conference website and email one of their organizers. They are VERY familiar with crossing the U.S. - Canadian border (and back) and being crossdressed (with a passport and DL that doesn't match anatomical sex). "If" I was going to do what you are thinking about, this (contacting Esprit) is what I would, unquestionably, do b/c they have outings that cross the border with some participants dressed and some not!!!!!!!

[Dita_B]

Perhaps the best way to check this out would be to go to the Esprit Conference website and email one of their organizers. They are VERY familiar with crossing the U.S. - Canadian border (and back) and being crossdressed (with a passport and DL that doesn't match anatomical sex). "If" I was going to do what you are thinking about, this (contacting Esprit) is what I would, unquestionably, do b/c they have outings that cross the border with some participants dressed and some not!!!!!!!

Thank you all for your advise so far. I know it is a risky thing to do, but that is probably why it is so attractive to me...

I am all excited about the thought of crossing the border en femme. What a thrill... And Di GG, no, my wife will not be with me, she doesn't support my CD-ing at all, let alone traveling with me while dressed... So I will be traveling by myself.

I just wonder, since there is no law in existence that I am aware of, that prohibits cross dressing in public, if the border guards have any legal ground at all to refuse entry to a CD. Their interaction with the public is also bound to regulations so they cannot really go and abuse their position, by just acting out how they feel about cross dressing. They have a supervisor too.

I am more concerned about the identification issue. I think that proper identification is one of the main issues at the border and can give rise to an uncomfortable and potentially humiliating situation as I mentioned earlier. They might want to photograph and fingerprint me with and without wig for their files. And taking off my wig is where my boundary sits.

But I am for sure going to check with Esprit and perhaps also with Tri Ess for advise.

Thank you so much, I sure appreciate your input and I let you know what I find out...

:love:Dita.

[BarbaraTalbot]

I of course think Sonora. Having adjusted my thinking northward, I still think risky, downside, minimal upside.

It sounds a bit to me like risk taking has some appeal in your case? I've certainly done some pretty high risk activities in my life purely for the adrenaline rush I think. Not sure if this is one of those times with readily apparent escape routes.

I wonder a bit also about your domestic situation. I read with interest some of your other posts describing the difficult route you have in your desire to do this openly at least in spurts. I gotta admire your tenacity. Is the frustration of not getting acceptance with who you want to be being channeled a bit in frenetic activity, I wonder?

Either way, I say grab up your travelin' bag from the crawl space and hie off over the border and get a secret giggle in whether or not the border guardski's do or do not open the bag to fondle your silkies!

Be careful. I don't think I need to add have fun, I'm pretty sure you will.

[TxKimberly]

. . . and was 100% no problem going either direction. The official on the Canadian side seemed slightly amused and was very friendly while she asked us the typical questions (what are you going to do here, etc) . The official on the US side when we came back through just barely bothered to even stop us.

Going to Canada with Glenda (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63936)


I am planning a trip South of the border and I am contemplating the idea to go dressed en femme.

Now the main obstacle is of course crossing the Canadian/US border and the US border guards are not really known for their sense of humor these days. I wonder what I would encounter when presenting myself as a female and hand over my male passport.

I don't really care disclosing the fact that I am a cross dresser, actually, I can't care less. And since I love to raise the bar on my challenges while en femme, the idea of border crossing en femme has become really attractive.

The only hesitation I have is to become the subject of humiliation, for instance being forced to take my wig off in plain public. I wouldn't appreciate that.

Are there any in this forum who have experience traveling long distance and dodging similar challenges? Like perhaps flying and having to deal with border guards and/or security?

I would love to get some input and/or opinions about the idea...

Thanks, :love:Dita.

[Billie1]

... I would strongly recommend against it. U.S. Customs (at least here in NY) must have had their sense of humor surgically removed a few years ago. They DO NOT like anything out of the ordianary. Methinks CD'ing falls into that catagory. The past two times I've come back from Canada (once at Niagara Falls, once at the Thousand Islands bridge) it was a half-hour wait in line, straight yes-sir, no-sir, didn't care how my day was, no chit-chat type of check. I don't know how it is on the left coast, but here, I would think that it would be setting yourself for a lot of needless hassle. Especially if you have some reservations about having to present yourself as pictured on your ID.

[Dita_B]

Kimberly: I have sent you a PM with some specific questions, thank you so much so far for an upbeat hands up! Fortunately you found a sleepy or uninterested border guard on your way back, but I may not be that lucky. What was Glenda's experience? Seen the ease with which she took you across the border while both of you were en femme, she must have had also some previous good experiences... I'd like to know what made her so self confident about a unobstructed passage...

And Barbara, I really enjoyed reading your message(s) and I am pleased that you enjoy reading mine too. You are quite right in your observation in regards to the adrenaline rush involved while going public en femme. I enjoy it immensely and I go through a brick wall when necessary to do what I enjoy doing...
I must admit that in most cases I just do first and think later, which is an Aries trait... I have not yet realized whether or not my frantic activities are spurred by the lack of acceptance from those dear to me... I am just too busy shopping in the Malls to give that much thought... Perhaps you are right, but I am not consciously feeling any frustration, that is behind me, I guess. (and which may prove your point exactly ).

And for what concerns my traveling bag with Dita in it, a girl has to do what a girl has to do...nothing, but absolutely nothing gets in between this girl and Mall hopping...this girl wants to have fun.

BTW: the idea was to cross the border en femme, so I would be wearing the silkies...they are not in the bag for inspection anymore.

And for all of you other girls with so much appreciated good advise: I have read your posts with interest... I know it is risky, but that is part of the fun, so I am going to do this... I just want to be prepared as good as I can. So thank you all for your warnings, but I am not gonna listen...

Love you all, :love:Dita.

[Stephenie S]

I think it's pretty straightforward. If you have proper ID, you wil have no problems. And there is the rub. Get proper ID. There is no law against CDing in the US or Canada. They are not allowed to humiliate you and they will not. What they can do is hassle you. They can make you wait, they can question you, they can make crossing a real drag. You will not be humiliated, you will not have to take off your wig, you will not be photographed "for their files". Call ahead if you want.

I am planning on crossing into Canada this fall. I present as Stephenie 24/7. I called the Canadian Consulate and was told that as long as my ID was current and legal I would have no trouble. They did recomend strongly that my picture ID match my apearance. I plan on visiting my DMV for a photo update before I cross the border.

Cross all your "T"s, dot all your "I"s, and have fun.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Dita_B]

I am planning on crossing into Canada this fall. I present as Stephenie 24/7. I called the Canadian Consulate and was told that as long as my ID was current and legal I would have no trouble. They did recomend strongly that my picture ID match my apearance. I plan on visiting my DMV for a photo update before I cross the border.

Cross all your "T"s, dot all your "I"s, and have fun.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Thank you Stephenie, your advise is also straight in my alley. I have a question: How do I get a photo ID with Dita's picture on it, so that my photo ID matches my appearance? How did you do that? And forgive me my ignorance, but what does DMV stand for?

And yes I am planning to have fun... thank you.

:love:Dita.

[TxKimberly]

Okay,

I responded Via PM but suspect some of the other folks might be intersted in the answers so thought I should post them here too.

The border guards (ours and theirs) never said a word about us being cross dressed. I think a key point might be that we made no serious effort to hide who and what we were. We handed our passports over, didn't speak in a Mickey Mouse falsetto, and answered her questions.
Never having been to Canada before I can't say this with 100% certainty, but I got the distinct impression that her questions were standards - those that she asks everyone. I did NOT feel like she had singled Glenda or I out because were TG - I think she probably asks most people those questions.
Let me cut and paste your questions here so I am sure I don't fail to respond to them:
Like how did the border guard handle the fact that both of you were dressed en femme? What was their reaction, if any at all?
No reaction from either side US or Canada. I'm sure they CAN make an issue of us not looking exactly like our pics if they choose to, but in our case none was made.
How did they handle the identification issue? No problem - we handed them our passports. When she asked us questions, we answered making no effort to fool her into thinking we were female.
And you said that Glenda was kind of grilled, had that anything to do with her being dressed?
I don't think so. The bored air the young lady had while asking gave me the distinct impression these were standard questions that were asked of a lot of people.
It sounds like Glenda had done this little trip to Canada more often, because she does it apparently with the same ease as a trip to the Mall. Did Glenda have anything to say about the border crossing before you two did it?
At first Glenda recommended we tell the Canadians (if they asked) that we were going to a TG meeting. We later deicded it was a better idea to tell them the truth. Lies get you into trouble with folks like these. :-)

The other thing she mentioned was that she does know of one TGirl that was asked to lift or remove her wig once. Your sitting in your car and the folks behind you cant see your face, so while not exactly something one would look forward to, this would hardly be the end of the world.

I would offer just a bit of advice.
Don't lie. These folks are TRAINED to look for lies. What you are doing is not illegal in the US or Canada and there therefore is no reason to lie.
Stay respectful and don't give them an attitude - nothing like "how dare you stop me just because I'm a crossdresser?!" Remember thse folks don't get paid any better than your or I do, and this is the time and place where they are king and queen (forgive the punn). If you get in their face they are going to make you miserable.
Its hard when your nervous, but TRY to smile and have a sense of humor. This is critical in everything you do dressed when interacting with people. If they see a nervous wreck, who is acting strange due the high stress she is under, this sets off all sorts of flags, especially with security folks. If you smile and laugh, or maybe even poke fun at yourself, you are much more likely to be treated well. When asked for my ID while dressed, I will often laugh and say something along the lines of "oh come on, you just want to see what the old drag queen REALLY looks like huh?". I say this while smiling and handing the ID over - it breaks the ice and often gets an honest laugh.
The VERY worst case scenarios I can imagine (and I really have trouble imagining it coming to pass) would be that you have to:
1 - Be prepared to wash up so they can compare you better to your passport.
2 - Be turned around at the border, find someplace to clean up, and then pass through in boy mode. carry soap and towels, and boy clothes if you are worried.
These would be all time WORST cases and I can't imagine it happening.

Everyone thinks I am so brave, but I'm not half as brave as you think. It's easy to be brave when your going out several states from where you live - the only people that are going to see me are strangers I and couldn't give a care what they think. So trust me, I DO get nervous sometimes but I wouldn't hesitate to cross into Canada dressed following the advice I just gave you.

All my best!

[Sheri 4242]

. . . 100% no problem going either direction.

From what I understand, it depends on where you cross. Where Dita would more than likely be crossing, they are more used to it. That, in part, is why I suggested she email some of the Esprit people. They have experience in U.S.-Canadian border crossings with crossdressers "en femme."


I just wonder, since there is no law in existence that I am aware of, that prohibits cross dressing in public, if the border guards have any legal ground at all to refuse entry to a CD. Their interaction with the public is also bound to regulations so they cannot really go and abuse their position, by just acting out how they feel about cross dressing. They have a supervisor too.

I don't want to throw cold water on your idea, but law enforcement really doesn't need a statute or law on the books for this -- especially in the post 9-11 environment. They probably can't keep you from crossing the border, but they can make a logical argument for detaining you and making your life uncomfortable for a couple of hours. Just one example: they want to make certain of the identity and background of someone desiring to cross the border who is, in their opinion, attempting to do so vis-a-vis a disguise, regardless of your honest explanation. Right or wrong, they do have the authority. On the U.S. side, the Patriot Act gives pretty broad powers -- some may be unconstitutional, but they exist and continue to be enforced nevertheless. Part and parcel of this is to know who is coming into the U.S., and question and investigate anybody they feel warrants such.


I am more concerned about the identification issue. I think that proper identification is one of the main issues at the border and can give rise to an uncomfortable and potentially humiliating situation as I mentioned earlier. They might want to photograph and fingerprint me with and without wig for their files. And taking off my wig is where my boundary sits.

It all depends on who you are dealing with. Kim had no problem. That said, IF you run into someone with an attitude, they WILL be removing your wig. (Oh, the stories I could tell you about "identification" issues where there shouldn't be any.)

Again, I think you probably wouldn't have the first problem, but go to folks with experience in this in the general area where you'll be crossing. IF it is going to be somewhere along the area of BC, then the Esprit folks definitely have experience you'll want to tap into!!!

[Stephenie S]

Thank you Stephenie, your advise is also straight in my alley. I have a question: How do I get a photo ID with Dita's picture on it, so that my photo ID matches my appearance? How did you do that? And forgive me my ignorance, but what does DMV stand for?

And yes I am planning to have fun... thank you.

:love:Dita.

Dear Dita,

I called my DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) and told them that my picture did not match my appearance any longer (I said nothing about why). They said, no problem, just go and get another photo taken.

I don't know if BC will let you do this. I can't imagine why not. If you were obese, and you lost a lot of weight, you would no longer look the same and might desire another photo. Call them and tell them you want a new photo on your license.

Perhaps there are other forms of ID you could get. Vancouver has a very active TG community. Try and get in touch with a TG organization there and ask what they do.

Read Kimberly's post carefully. I think she just about nailed it. Her explanations were clear and informative. Most important is DON'T LIE. Don't even think about it. She is absolutely correct, these people are trained to detect lies and will land on you with both feet if they think you are trying to put something over on them. At the same time, they are public servants, they work with the public all day long and they are NOT allowed to humiliate you or treat you in any way disrespectfully. Believe me, they can be very respectful as they ask you to wait another hour or so.

So get your ID in order. Call them before hand, tell them honestly who you are and what you want to do, and ASK them what documents they will require. Simple as that. As I said, I called the Canadian Consulate in Boston to find out exactly what was needed. You could call the Americans in Vancouver, perhaps even in Victoria (it is the capital, after all), or even in Seattle if you had to.

But most of all, relax. You are NOT doing anything illegal or immoral. Come on down and enjoy yourself. We're kinda nice once you get to know us.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[ElaineB]

I have never crossed a border en femme (although I have been stopped at the border and had my bag searched while it had a couple new nighties in it)... but I have crossed many a border.

My advice... don't do it! Border officials have all the power in the world to make your life miserable if they want to. Nine in a row might get through with no problems, then one ass will make life hell for the tenth.

Peace Arch is a notoriously strict crossing, as well. The official advice where I work is to cross anywhere else if we have to go south on business.

[Suzy Harrison]

I haven't been to the US in years but I can imagine what the border security is like these days. Surely the worrying thing is that their job is to clearly identify anyone coming into the country. You look pretty good to me - which must be bad news for the border security guys as you would look nothing like any male photos on your ID.

I think it's risky, which makes it exciting I know, but I am worried for you.

[TxKimberly]

I haven't been to the US in years but I can imagine what the border security is like these days. Surely the worrying thing is that their job is to clearly identify anyone coming into the country. You look pretty good to me - which must be bad news for the border security guys as you would look nothing like any male photos on your ID.

I think it's risky, which makes it exciting I know, but I am worried for you.


Suzy brings up a point that maybe should be clarified. I would not, and did not, hessitate to do this at a border crossing with the US and Canada. I myself wouldn't dream of doing it when traveling by aircraft. That's a whole different ball of wax that i wouldn't want to play with. Uh uh, no way.

[Dita_B]

I myself wouldn't dream of doing it when traveling by aircraft. That's a whole different ball of wax that i wouldn't want to play with. Uh uh, no way.

Thank you so much for all the excellent advise. I am sooo glad I asked, you are all so supportive...

I am still pondering the idea... No I will not be traveling by air, but take my car over on the Victoria - Port Angeles ferry. It is a busy route, but not as busy as the main route through Peace Arch. And it goes by spurts of ferry traffic only. So the border guards may be a little more relaxed... or amused. I have no problem with the amused part, if it comes my way. I feel more comfortable being the center of attention dressed as a girl than dressed as Ronald McDonald....

I have had no time yet to investigate any further, I will do that next week. One of the things I am considering is calling the customs office in Port Angeles and ask them what I must do to avoid trouble. (and I expect them saying: "don't dress") LOL...

I will check with one or more CD organizations to hear what their experience is. But I am definitely going to do this. It's way to exciting an opportunity to let pass by unused.


Come on down and enjoy yourself. We're kinda nice once you get to know us.

And thank you Stephenie, I was already aware of that through my interactions with you all in this forum. And I love to go South to get to know a few more of you...

Thank you all again, you have been an inspiration for me, and I'll keep you posted...

BTW: The trip is scheduled for the beginning of October, so posting the story of my adventure will have to wait until than.

:love:Dita.

[Suzy Harrison]

I guess if you contact them earlier, by letter or e-mail, and get a positive reply, you could then take that letter along with you. If you have any problems you could show them the letter/e-mail. Exciting (scary) stuff !

[LindaTS]

I used to spend a lot of time in Mexico when I lived in CA but never tried to cross the border dressed and I don't think I'd try it now that with all the security in place. I think it's asking for trouble.

[Christine Davis]

I wouldn't do it at all. Expecially going to Canada. I travel a lot for my company and had the occasion of going to Canada once or twice. The first time they almost wouldn't let me in because I didn't have a detailed scope of woirk as to what I was going to do.

I'm here to install software.
Why type of software?
Land Managemnt software for your public works.
How long are you going to be here?
3 days.
Who is your point of contact?
Mr. Upyours
Do you have a phone for him.
Here it is.

1 hour later I was picking up the rental car and driving to the hotel


The second time I was in northen Michgan and thought... let's get a bite to eat. Drove this time over the border and got interrogated again as to Where I was from, where I was going, who I was going to see. how did I know about the restaurant, even what kind of food did they serve.

If Canada is going through such length to keep "undesirables" out, then imagine crossing en femme?

I wouldn't do it no matter how passable I am.

[Sweetasapeach]

I too thought you were talking Mexico when you said South. I have never crossed the Canadian border but have crossed the Mexican border countless times. The two that stand out were the two with incidents. Mind you I was crossing (not Crossdressing) as I had many times. I was detained for several hours. When I protested I was told the other agent must have forgot to tell me Icould go. I once was stopped leaving the border at an interior checkpoint 15 miles inland. These boys all had M16's. My college bud and I had to unload very thing out of our pick-up before we were let go. All this before 9-11. Today forget it. until things change it is not worth the hassle. Something you mind consider if you are denied. In todays world you might be denied forever from crossing.

[Alex!]

The one thing to remember is that crossdressing is not illegal in the U.S. and I imagine it isn't in Mexico. Still, there is the odd chance you could be isolated for some reason by the border guards. When ID and actual physical appearance don't match, you always run the risk fo being singled out for further inspection, a process that can be humiliating for some people.

I sure wouldn't risk it, but then I feel it isn't worth it. For others, it is.

[Sheri 4242]

RE: Crossing the U.S.-Mexican Border:

Something you mind consider if you are denied. In todays world you might be denied forever from crossing.

A friend of my father was barred forever from entry into Mexico -- and this was back in 1976 -- just b/c he partied too much (long story, but true).

I would attempt crossing the Canadian border dressed, but never the Mexican border!