Genetics definitely involved

[Taylor105]

I have this friend. She is extremely butch and now considers herself a lesbian. She tried the straight route in her younger years and actually gave birth to a daughter and then a set of twins. A boy and a girl. When the twins were five they started making very noticeable changes that I do not consider a "phase". Little Blake took to wearing his older sisters bras under his shirt. He loved Barbies and what would be considered girls toys. He really wanted his nails polished so his mom allowed him to paint his toenails as long as he wore shoes out of the house. She wasn't all that happy when she caught him wearing his sisters bra though. I was there one day and she got upset saying "are you wearing your sister's bra again??" and Blake looked so ashamed. It was really sad. Now Blair is the little girl who I think should have been born a boy. She wears nothing but boys clothes. She often steals her twin brothers clothes. Including underwear. She wears caps and only plays with boys toys. She even spits. lol I really noticed the difference on Christmas when Blake and Blair traded toys. Both of their eyes just lit up upon trading Hot Wheels for Barbies. My friend, their mother, has since decided that her gender identities were switched somehow in her womb. I'm a strong believer that that is exactly what happened. The twins are now almost 13. They now receive the kinds of gifts at Christmas that they prefer. Their older sister who is comfortable in her female identity helps her brother with his make-up. Blake still only dresses and wears make-up at home and he does get sad when he sees his twin getting to wear all of her boy gear to school. I don't think Blair is looked at funny because clothing can be so gender nuetral. Blake has to be content with his toenails painted and wearing a training bra and girls panties under his clothes. I am just glad that their mom is now okay with it. What do you guys think?

(I did not use opposite gender pro-nouns because these kids have yet to say they are the opposite gender yet...I do see it coming though. So does their mother)

[Adam]

funny you should write about this one site i am a member of and also a mod of i do online live chat and i was chatting to a family the other day (about 2 months ago) twins one boy one girl and they both feel there in the wrong bodys with a chat to there dad and to them its been decided this summer they can live as each other this will work well for them because they both look alike anyways and same coulur hair ect. They must be about a month into it and there still happy to be each other not sure how it will work ou for them but just wanted to let you no it does happen in twins :D

[ZenFrost]

I think they might've just swapped genders in the womb. Or something like that. There is a chance that it could be a phase because they're only 13 after all (it can be a little tricky to know for sure before puberty), but I'm more inclined to think that they somehow got each other's bodies.

[boi_0h]

Wow, it's great that those kids have such an understanding mother, I don't know if I'd say their genders got mixed up at birth just yet, it's still to early to rule out other factors, but if it ends up the way it seems to be heading, that'd be a strong suggestion for gender identity formation in the womb.

[charlie-50]

Seems to me it has to genetic. nothing else explains it. i mean i dont remember being treated diferently when i was young. it was some thing i always liked to do when i was alone(dress up ).......charlie......:D

[kerrianna]

Wow, that is fascinating. There is so much we don't understand about gender identity still.

That tale does really point out how much further we have to go with allowing 'males' to present as female in safety and comfort. Poor Blake. :sad: I'm just glad she's got an understanding and supportive mom and such a cool sister to help her along.

I always found the concept of twins as mind-blowing anyway. I wonder how much of this is biological and how much is more like psychic transference between two beings who are seperate yet so much the same? Do they see the other as a kind of mirror image of themselves? I don't know... I'm totally clueless about twins, even though people always thought my brother (1 year older) and I were twins (we didn't even have the same colour of hair!) :idontknow:

[Robin Leigh]

I believe there is a genetic component, but with these twins, I believe the influence is epigenetic: they gave each other a hormonal wash.

FWIW, this phenonmenon is well-known in other species that commonly have multiple births, like mice. And cows that have a twin male brother are often masculinized.

For details, see Animal Sexuality; January 1994; Scientific American (http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=CC4E7675-5314-45AE-A1CB-180C480C09B). I have a copy of this article, but I cannot post it here for copyright reasons.

Robin

[Rachel Morley]

Twins who's gender identities got switched in the womb?? That's an interesting way of looking at it. It seems totally feasible to me as well. It must suck really bad for Blake not to be able to wear girl's clothes to school yet his sister seemingly is able to wear "boy's clothes" when she goes to school. What do you say to a kid about that injustice? :sad:

[Kimberley]

This is an interesting situation. UCLA Researchers have discsovered a genetic link to Sexual Preference/Gender Identity. (Molecular Brain Research, 2003, Oct. 21 issue, Vol. 118, pgs. 82-90). I can provide a copy of an article written about this if anyone wants; just PM me.

So it actually does beg to ask if the incidence of genetic construction leading to LGBT is greater in multiple birth siblings. If one accepts both theories of hormonal releases as well as a genetic link, then it would stand to reason that as one twin goes, so would the other.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[hayden von beethoven]

I actually have a couple expierences with this type thing. I am a twin, fraternal not identical although we look identical I'm just taller than my sister Julianne. We were raised seperatly and only found each other a couple years go. I, as most people know on here and in the real world, am FTM trans. I dress, and identify as male. And I was born Miranda Lee, now Hayden (Miranda) Lee, I kept my original first name I just don't use it. My sister Julianne was born Jacob Micheal, in 2001 decided to start going full time as Julianne Michelle (original no?) in junior high. Sadly Julianne died of an overdose in 2006 after a bad MTF trans related expierence in New York.

Fact is... You get the point. Julianne's 'parents' accepted her at a young age, as my mother tried to do. We grew up with opposite toys, and clothes, my bedrooms were green or blue and hers were pink. My mom tried to see me as me but for a single mom it's hard to understand why your little girl cries when you put a dress on her and says thats what girls wear. Julianne's
'parents' homeschooled her after her choice to be female full-time until highschool.

I however came out as trans my senior year, I didn't have the strength she did.

On top of my sister and I being born trans, we have two sets of twin cousins, both on our father's side of the family. Twins Donnavon and Daniel (fraternal) were born two years after us to our father's sister Lucy. Donnavon came out as homosexual his freshman year of highschool. And Daniel is also gay, but on a more... femme scale then his brother. Daniel has told me in the past that he wears women's clothing in private and is afraid to tell anyone. So in this case unlike mine, one twin is trans (he did come out as trans not too long ago) and one is homosexual and has yet to show any signs or interest in trans things.

The other set of twins Britt and Micheala, are identical born to my father's brother Stan are my age and were born a month after Jules and I. Micheala is bisexual, but tends to lean more towards girls. Britt was extremely confused growing up and didn't know which way was up when it came to gender identity, sexuality or any of that. She is now living in Chicago under the name "Brid" and living androgynously.

So not only do twins, and blonde hair run in our blood line, gender identity issues also do, we're all firm believers in genetic influence. Upon further investigation we have found cross-dressing relatives in the 1920's and later.

Crazy!

[CaptLex]

Wow, that's an amazing story, Hayden! :eek: Researchers would have a field day with your family. :happy:

P.S. Sorry about what happened to your sister.

[ZenFrost]

That's really interesting Hayden, and I'm sorry about your sister. :hugs:

It definitely seems to imply something to the nature vs. nurture argument on behalf of the 'nature' side.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Seems to me it has to genetic. nothing else explains it. i mean i dont remember being treated diferently when i was young. it was some thing i always liked to do when i was alone(dress up ).......charlie......:D

I dont think that it is directly genetic--like a TG gene, BUT it might be a genetic thing with respect to the parents that could be passed down---like a tendancy for a woman to produce the "wrong" kinds of hormones at the wrong times in her pregnancy, that can result in a TG baby.----THIS might be what is genetically transmitted, not the TG itself, but the tendacy to produce TG offspring

[Taylor105]

Thanks guys for all the replies. I was thinking that Blake and Blair were rare but it seems to me that it is more common than I thought. Hayden, my heart breaks for you. I lost a brother in 2001 and I have never been the same.

[Robin Leigh]

Firstly, :bighug: to those who have lost a sibling or other loved one in the struggle. Many of us have faced the dilemma; "I can be TG, or I can die", but thankfully most of us have found the support & strength to not fall over that precipice.


I dont think that it is directly genetic--like a TG gene, BUT it might be a genetic thing with respect to the parents that could be passed down---like a tendancy for a woman to produce the "wrong" kinds of hormones at the wrong times in her pregnancy, that can result in a TG baby.----THIS might be what is genetically transmitted, not the TG itself, but the tendacy to produce TG offspring

I think this theory has a very high probability of being correct, Marina. I'm glad you put "wrong" in quotes, or some members might interpret your explanation in a negative light. Sure, we are non-standard, but that doesn't mean we are factory rejects. :)

There is such a vast range of variation possible with embryo development. Sexual reproduction, what a crazy idea! Mixing two sets of plans together & try to build something from that? It's amazing any of us get born. :) Most conceptuses don't even last a few days. So, if something works, and doesn't cause organic problems elsewhere in the body, it should class as normal in my book.

It can be argued that people with blond hair & blue eyes are genetically flawed, since these features arise due to faulty pigmentation genes. But few people would see these traits as defects. :)

I'm not denying that TG/TS & intersex people have problems, some of which come from non-standard wiring or plumbing. But hey, no body is perfect, and many bodies need adjustments & repairs from time to time. :heehee:

:hugs:

Robin

[melissaK]

(I did not use opposite gender pro-nouns because these kids have yet to say they are the opposite gender yet...I do see it coming though. So does their mother)

The fact they are born unto an understanding mother is the best part of this story.

hugs,
'lissa

[Taylor105]

The fact they are born unto an understanding mother is the best part of this story.

hugs,
'lissa

I agree. She is a remarkable woman.