Dads, Sons, Crossdressing

[WendyCD]

There was a really good thread lately about a son discovering his dad's crossdressing. All the responses were great and I couldn't have improved on any of the excellent advice.

When I grew up I knew that my parents HAD to know - raiding the panty drawer, hidden "items", a book I bought about the tennis player (bought it when I was 13 or 14 - helped me understand CD versus TS) etc...

When I grew up it was in the late 60's early 70's - Bell bottoms for men, flowery tops for guys - lots of blurred gender lines in clothing, media, music (Remember the really good early Alice Cooper stuff, pre -"Schools Out" - but I remeber the panties that came with *that* record...). I knew very little about their private lives - but they did swing for a while. They divorced when I was 19.

I don't recall any particular serious or even passing remarks about my CDing - perhaps a "how did THIS get in here", "leave my stuff alone". But that's it - no therapists, etc...

I remember one day in high school embellishing my jeans - Not because I wanted *conciously* to be or look girly - but I just liked the way they looked with the band of embroiderd strip of cloth sewed on above the flare of the pants. Really (really!), wasn't a gender thing. But it certainly did look feminine now that I look back.

My father said one thing at the time - "Are boys now wearing their jeans that way?" No emotion or trace of disapproval or approval...Just asking...

I took that band of embroidery off my jeans that day - I was mortified. He was just doing me a favor - pointing out what I apparently missed - that it was girly lookng and was bound to get noticed.

I got noticed enough at school for stuff like that and some of other quirks - so I appreciated him asking. Nothing was ever said again between us about it.

He died suddenly a few years ago - 63. There was a stash in his basement - not a big one. Some skirts, tops, plain lingerie. Closeted CD for sure. (I wished he'd let me go shopping with him, would have helped in the "What not to wear"!!! LOL!!!)

I was an adult then with kids by then - closet CD - had only recently got the nerve to buy real clothes - dresses, you know...

I always wondered, did I make him think of CDing back when I was a kid, and he took to it later, when he lived alone? Did he always? (I doubt it actually) Divorce was probably end result of infidelity on both sides - doubt the cause was CDing, I think we'd have known or been told -

I don't care that he CD'd - Wouldn't have wanted to know, and if I had - wouldn't have asked him anything about it.

Part two...

My oldest son, college, found one picture, about 16 mos ago. Me in a flowered dress, from the back. No shoes, lingerie, nylons, etc. Was to be my avitar for here. DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!!!! I was being so careful, didn't know it was on that stupid USB memory card - or thought not. He asked me about it, with a laugh, "you guys must have been foolin' around, huh?"

A short "yea", "give me that thing", "wasn't meant for general viewing". No discussion since...

Now, if I really wanted to do the guilt trip...what if I influence my son? I doubt it, but just thinking.

Anyway - some of things we can experience as fathers, sons, husbands along life's journey.

WendyCD

_______________________________________________

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic till I'm gathered safely in
Touch me with your naked hand or touch me with your glove
Dance me to the end of love

Leonard Cohen

[ubokvt]

A great post. thank you for sharing something so close. There is a lot to think about there, thank you.

[Karen Francis]

I came out to my 2 sons ages 24 and 26 a year ago. Neither had any idea, both have been hugely supportive. Has moved us both closer together, would not trade the experience for anything

I would consider using this opportunity to come out to your college age son, if you are ever going to come out at all. Depends on your relationship with him, but this is the chance.

[az_azeel]

What a good post Wendy, Theres certainly a few pointers I can relate to there especially the 60's and 70's remarks Being born in 62... I can remember the clothes not being gender specific. .. .. take care :hugs:

[BarbaraTalbot]

I didn't see the part about you finding his stash coming. It strikes me as a hint about a genetic component. Don't know what I would feel about that myself. I've always thought about CD as more nurture than nature, but who knows? If Dad was a CD, and Mom didn't like it (trust me she wouldn't have) her reaction to me at 4 would make a lot more sense than it does otherwise. Of course I can't see that, but fun to muse.

I will say that one of the reasons I have lost 22 lbs so far is because when I was practicing towards my first time fully dressing I took some pics to see my progress. A couple looked to me like my dad in a dress. I was more horrified than amused.

Losing the double chin has helped a lot.

I realize now, that although Dee was always nurturing when my youngest son would put on a pair of heels and sing "look at me, I'm Sandra Dee" (He really was taken with Grease for a while), I was a little worried, remembering my dressing (which I thought at the time was a phase that I had put behind me). I didn't want him to experience shame from others and unease and a little self-loathing from himself.

If Dee had freaked like my mother did, I wonder what that would have done to me. It would have validated my mom's pathology.

[dakota_ann69]

I have often wondered myself if there is some genetic component to all of this CD'ing and I really have no way of knowing since I was adopted, and the one person that knew who my real parents were is long since passed and I am well past the phase of wanting to know. However, I cannot put aside my loving mothers attitude towards me growing up. She always encouraged me to be whoever I wanted to be and somehow I think she always knew about my curiosity for her clothing I never got caught, but she always knew when something was out of place. As for my Dad the only time I am aware of him donning women's clothes was for a Halloween party when I was about 6 months old. He said he was very passable as a lady. I think that somewhere these things only reinforced the femme side of my personality and I only realized this when I was home alone and found a brand new pair of black pantyhose my mother had in her drawer.........well the rest is history!!

[WendyCD]

thanx for the thoughtful responses. so many ways to look at things.

I think personalities are inherited in some fashion.Some personalities may allow for gender stretching/bending/switching and others not.

Could it be that... of those boys/young men who do take some type of feminine excursion as part of just growing up and experimentation find that dressing resonates deeply - deeply enough to risk doing it again, while others may not, or not enough to risk it repeating that behavior.

And/or, some of our (inherited?) personalties are not too much bothered about being masculine all the time or are non threatened by, or indeed drawn towards, the feminine.

But one theme for me was and still is, clothing (for everyday, drab, wear).... purchases or style.... or the way I wear it ... comes out kind of feminine...sometimes startling so, whithout meaning to. I don't try to pass and I wasn't thinking "oh this is pretty or girly and I can wear this in drab"...I just liked the way it looked. As opposed to clothing for those dates with the closet and opposed to the trouser socks, panties and belts worn secretly with my work clothing

Gotta go!! I am posting this much but wanted to say more....later if it seems right for the thread/forum

[WendyCD]

sorry for chopping this up....

I originally said that I wouldn't have wanted to know that my dad CD'd. Not exactly what I wanted to say...Really, I didn't need to know. If CDing resonated deeply enough with my father and he needed me to know...well that would have been ok. Would I have felt differently about him? Can't say, really. I certainly wouldn't have seen him as any less a man or father.

Do I care that my son saw that photo? Yes. Why?

I don't need him to know that about me. I am afraid that his knowing, in my (our) case, would not bring us closer. If I were TS or wanted to CD out of the closet, well, I'd have to tell him. So he could understand.

That photo will leave him wondering, that's OK (??) I guess, has to be.

Do I have the same obligation to come out to my children as I do to come out (again, or more completely) to my wife?

Karen Francis - Was it hard to come out to your adult kids - what made you want (need?) to?

BarbaraTalbot - Your last line about... 'if Dee had freaked out it would have validated my mom's pathology'...interesting. Would you have then thought it was yours?

Hope you don't mind the ?'s and I appreciate the opportunity to explore this topic in this wonderful forum.

WendyCD

[Daintre]

Hi Wendy, I am the father of an adult son who also cross dresses. I have gone through years having this guilty feeling that he is a CD because he knew I was. I always kept Jenni out of my son's life, I always tried to be the "dad" and do all the things associated with that. He was 8 when my ex and I divorced and I am sure my ex made it very clear to him all about me. He did find out about me and today we have a great relationship, no we don't shop together or such, but we like each other, and love each other as dad and son.

[WendyCD]

but we like each other, and love each other as dad and son.

You can't ask ask for more! You must be grateful, I can't imagine losing that with my son(s).

WendyCD

[Carroll]

Now, if I really wanted to do the guilt trip...what if I influence my son? I doubt it, but just thinking.


I don't think you will influence him at all
As for me and my kids, they all know about Carroll. My 5y old daughter, 8y old son, and my 19y old son. My oldest, who lives out of state has never seen me, but the two younger ones have. My wife and I have been praised on how we are raising our kids with the CDing by both my daughter's counselor, and a psychiatrist my wife sees. I know that there are some that may disagree, but we are raising our kids to be open-minded about the world around them. I look at it this way; If you want to world to be more accepting of the LGBT community, why not start at home. We tell them it is not a secret but a private thing.
oops...off topic a bit...sorry:2c:

[WendyCD]

If you want to world to be more accepting of the LGBT community, why not start at home. We tell them it is not a secret but a private thing.

Thanx...excellent point...

Most important, for me, I want to stay in the closet. That doesn't imply disapproval for those who don't. If my life had taking different turns, I may very well have been "out". Those who are "out", accept the challanges that being true to themselves bring - including working through issues with one's children. That takes some courage and trust and lots of love...and only those who come out (willingly) know if it's worth it ...and have what it takes.

I am, of course sensitive to LGBT issues as they arise in my family. We live in a very conservative community and they go to a VERY conservative school. I am amazed by my kid's lack of critisim and prejudice as applies to LGBT when those issues arise, either in the media or with those they may come in contact with. If necessary, and it rarely is, in fact sometimes roles reverse, I will advocate. This also applies to those who are ethnically, culturally or ideologically different.


WendyCD

[BarbaraTalbot]

BarbaraTalbot - Your last line about... 'if Dee had freaked out it would have validated my mom's pathology'...interesting. Would you have then thought it was yours?
...and yes, definately. By my mom's pathology, what I meant to say was that her freaking out was about her (obviously) not the 4 year old.

If my son's experimenting led to hard core dressing and secrecy and shame and hiding, I would absolutely have thought that my mom was right, there was something 'wrong' with me, otherwise how could i have 'passed down' this trait if it was not a 'defect'.

My personal feeling now is that there may be a nature part but the urge to feel the shame and hide and self loathe is purely nurture or in my case, lack thereof. This view really reflects the growth I have experienced at being open with my wife, and the members here and the hundreds of visitors to my blog. I am amazed at the complete difference in how I feel and behave dressed in a semi-open way at least with my wife, to the shameful feelings of hiding. Not even remotely the same activity.

[danam]

I am contemplating the same situation. I think that when (not if, but when) my kids stumble across my stash or pictures, I'm going to laugh it off as "sex games, you don't want to know." And, knowing kids, they'll likely respond with, "You're right, we don't want to know." And I think that response will hold a lot of weight because everything else in life is pretty conservative and stable and altogether normal. And laughing it off will also make them know that it is not something to dwell on and that it will not change our relationship in any way.

I think that the difference between "lightening and a lightening bug" is a simple light-hearted comment like that. "Sex games, that's all. Stop asking." Just something your dad likes to do for fun once in a while. That's it. No big deal.

At least, that is my plan.

[AmberTG]

I told my son a few weeks ago because,1; he knew I was going to the therapist for my depression issues, and 2; I knew he was going to be spending a lot of time at my house while I'm gone overnight for work. I no longer have a wife or younger child living with me, and I wasn't going to hide all my stuff anymore, especially sense I'm at the beginning of transition. I figured that if it offended him, he just wouldn't come around anymore. He's 29 years old now, old enough to do what he wants, I figured it was up to him to decide if he wanted to deal with something that he's going to be exposed to at my house. I'm NOT going to hide it in my own house anymore!
I hope that doesn't sound harsh, it's not meant to be. I just feel strongly about it now.
As for influencing a child toward CDing by your own CDing, that's kinda like influencing them toward being gay. I believe that they either have the tendency or they don't. You won't change that by your actions. If they have the tendency toward CDing, they will without any outside influence. Think about your own start, can you remember anything that "pushed" you into it? I know I can't, it just happened, in secret. Something inside you triggers it, and society supplies the guilt and shame for you.

[WendyCD]

BarbaraTalbot wrote

If my son's experimenting led to hard core dressing and secrecy and shame and hiding, I would absolutely have thought that my mom was right, there was something 'wrong' with me

I know that I am taking your words a little out of context...I hope you won't mind.

Trying to see through the eyes of parents who find their son in a dress, or nightgown, whatever...

Do they freak because they see CDing as a perversion and they want a "normal" son, not somebody with something "wrong" or broken. - Some do, I'm sure.

Are some parents just afraid that **if** their son is sliding out along the gender spectrum, behavior may follow that will cause their son shame and self loathing. Maybe some parents try, often without success, sometimes making it worse, to just save their son pain later. I think mine did. Most of guilt/shame/self loathing was self generated...Would I have felt better if my Mom took me shopping in the Juniors department - no.........

My Dad though, seemed to go out of his way to point out the negative examples of CDing portrayed in the media - not mean but not sympathetic. Corp. Klinger, for example, Flip Wilson...Maybe he was just wanted to warn me...

Thanx for your (and others) replies. THIS is why I love this forum.

You can tell me to shut up if I'm going on too long!!!:happy: