I am accepting...as long as you are like me!

[SatinDoll00]

I have noticed that there is a certain degree of intolerance here on this board.

I wasn't going to make an issue out of this, but I seriously feel that I may want to search for somewhere else.

There is way too much bashing of homosexual and bisexuals here.

Words like "ick" and "eww" and "nasty" are not really needed.

Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.

I want to remind everyone here that we all (at least the CDs/TGs) are involved in something that is generally not accepted by mainstream society. For you to call someone else "nasty" or "icky" is just plain ignorant!!

Don't be a hypocrite. We all want acceptance, and alienating one another is not going to get us where we want to be. We all have our opinions about things, but ripping into someone, the way I have seen done here, does not exactly solidify us as a community.

Gays and Lesbians are united, and they show support for one another...this is one reason that they are generally more accepted than CD/TGs.

Seriously...if you are straight, gay, or bi, it doesn't matter...we are all in this thing together. Slamming one another (don't even say it) for our sexual preferences or habits demeans us all and makes us nothing more than those we seek to change.

Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???

I have not been here long...and I feel that some of you are really great, and I feel that ALL of us deserve better than the treatment I have seen dished out here.

Please, let me know if I am out of line here. If this board is going to turn into a place that only CDs that are straight, out to their SOs (if they have them), and otherwise meet some kind of criteria can participate, beyond being CD/TG, then let me know...and I will be gone.

Thanks,
Morgan

[BarbaraTalbot]

well said.

I for one need to learn to separate my feelings about when my ox is being gored from how that perspective can be hurtful to the rest.

edit (after two pages of accusations about who doesn't accept whom and who is narrow minded and who is enlightened):

It seems inconsistent that "I don't get why some behavior or another is interesting" is "not accepting" but there is no need to be accepting of viewpoints if those viewpoints can be labeled as "narrow-minded". It sounds to me like those who wish to pretend that its not cheating if you are dressed, object to anyone making what are admittedly moral judgments about the behavior.

You can certainly reject my morality and substitute your own. I know that I have at times done just that. Rationalizing is the way we protect ourselves.

[Toyah]

Look at my posts I hate the we are better than you crowd ie the panty police there are far too many that are to quick to jump on the fetish gay or anything that is not boring. They will run down anyone who does not conform to thier narrow minded ideals so fight against em make your sig count dont let right wing America take over here :thumbsup:

[SatinDoll00]

dont let right wing America take over here :thumbsup:

Uh oh...now we need a seperate section for Republican CDs??? :D

Only kidding sweetie!! Thanks for the reply!

Morgan

[Sam-antha]

No, just a non-conforming section for overseas members
Sorry I have not been around this area lately and have not noticed your complaint sources. Not that I would be worried anyway, out of place members tend to vanish without notice

[Julogden]

I can't say that I've seen what I would call bashing here, but I haven't been looking for it either.

I have seen an occasional comment verging on rude regarding gay and/or bi people, but nothing anywhere near being vicious. While I disagree with that mentality, I feel that people should be free to express themselves as long as they don't get too ugly about it.

This place theoretically ought to be free of that sort of thing IMO, but we have a lot of wildly different people here, and we're not all going to agree on everything. We should be able to respectfully express opinions, even if others here don't like or agree with our opinions.

Leave if you must, but there is no place that is perfect. This place is the best I've found so far, so I try to accept it as-is, works sometimes, doesn't at other times.

Carol

[Wendy me]

OK as a member here and as a admin here ... as i see things two sided ....i am straight and those that are gay and those that are bi to each their own ..... do as you please it's your life ... just don't hurt any one ...

as a admin here my job is quite simple fairly enforce the rules for all members ... do what is for the good of the forum and it's members...

there are threads that start off OK but have the "history" of going off topic and causing trouble a few we have out here now..

your taking offense to others comments i can see were you might be coming from... but i can see were your going with this thread too...

what to do ??? what to do ??? do i close it ??? stop were it's going?? why then that backs up your "BASHING BS" ... i think i am more than fair and understanding not only as a member here but also as a admin here... as is the rest of the staff here .....

i saw posts all around in threads you are talking abought off topic and edgy ... now please your saying your going to have to find another place to go???? excuse me for being blunt .. i believe this thread is nothing more than a tool to start more "BS" ... and yet a nouther round of forum trouble ...

poor me threads started to get people all worked up is nothing more than trolling....


opinions expressed are mine .... and according to the thread starter should be welcome lest .... your bashing the forum and it's members ..... that the case ???.........

[Tamara Croft]

I've not seen anything like that on this board, I think you've got the wrong end of a certain thread!!!! nuff said!!

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.


*Ahem*

I do not feel threatened at all. I haven't got a homophobic bone in my body, I was just as loud as some GGs who wanted to state on another thread that MOST CDs are straight men - and we know that it's not the norm for CDing to involve being gay or bi.

As I've said previously, I seriously doubt that the proportion of gay or bisexual males is higher amongst CDers than in any other cross section of society.

And I hasten to add - there is absolutely nothing threatening about a man in a nighty. ;)

[Toyah]

OK as a member here and as a admin here ... as i see things two sided ....i am straight and those that are gay and those that are bi to each their own ..... do as you please it's your life ... just don't hurt any one ...

as a admin here my job is quite simple fairly enforce the rules for all members ... do what is for the good of the forum and it's members...

there are threads that start off OK but have the "history" of going off topic and causing trouble a few we have out here now..

your taking offense to others comments i can see were you might be coming from... but i can see were your going with this thread too...

what to do ??? what to do ??? do i close it ??? stop were it's going?? why then that backs up your "BASHING BS" ... i think i am more than fair and understanding not only as a member here but also as a admin here... as is the rest of the staff here .....

i saw posts all around in threads you are talking abought off topic and edgy ... now please your saying your going to have to find another place to go???? excuse me for being blunt .. i believe this thread is nothing more than a tool to start more "BS" ... and yet a nouther round of forum trouble ...

poor me threads started to get people all worked up is nothing more than trolling....


opinions expressed are mine .... and according to the thread starter should be welcome lest .... your bashing the forum and it's members ..... that the case ???.........


Sorry Wendy I disagree you should stop those who are so narrow minded !!!!

[Hippy Chic]

Hang on, why are the GG's & SO's getting it in the neck here?

If i recall correctly (& I haven't been back to check) but the "icky" & "eerrr" threads about gay sex were actually posted by CD's.

[Wendy me]

Toyah OK so we the staff ... your" panty Mafia" should stop those who are so narrow minded ??? cool yet is it not as narrow minded to stop one's opinion and allow anouthers???.....simple rules apply to all and this thread in my opinion is nothing more than "BS" trolling ...........

[Tamara Croft]

Hang on, why are the GG's & SO's getting it in the neck here?

If i recall correctly (& I haven't been back to check) but the "icky" & "eerrr" threads about gay sex were actually posted by CD's.There's nothing bloody new there, we always get it in the neck... you know why? because when we say something, we don't piss about around the houses, we come right out with it... sorry if that's harsh, but fgs, a few of us come out of hiding and post a bit and omg... we're gay bashing... whatever satin, you need to get with the damn program and try READING SOMETHING for a change instead of jumping to flaming conclusions, posting this bullcrap and stirring....

*goes off to bang head against brick wall... maybe I'll paint it purple*

[Alex!]

It is ok to not like something. It's ok to speak one's mind (and indeed this right is protected in the United States and elsewhere in the civilized world), even if the language is vulgar. It would be ideal if all people were respectful with each other, but of course this will never happen.

It is not ok to pass laws that deny or limit rights to citizens because of their race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Put another way, as individuals we must expect and indeed tolerate contrary, absurd, and outrageous non-violent behavior (especially in a representative democracy). We, in turn, have the right to ignore such individuals by tuning them out (turning off the television, radio, not reading a book, or walking away). Likewise, the moderator of a public forum has the right to shut them out.

In terms of my situation, people can think crossdressing is nasty, disgusting, perverted or whatever. I wish they didn't think that, but that is the way it is for many. I let them think and say what they want, and perhaps there is an opportunity to educate along the way. What is not acceptable is denying someone the same rights enjoyed by all because of crossdressing (for example, getting fired because a fellow colleague discovered you wear clothing of the opposite sex during your free time).

In the United States, our freedom of speech is and has been protected since 1789. It is a right rarely challenged. Most people around the world do not have this basic right. We should remember that. You should also take comfort in knowing that, in time, the ignorant among us will lose and those of enlightened constitution will inherit the Earth. This is why terrorism does not scare me, it merely annoys me.

Now, let's talk about about upcoming fall fashions.

[Kieron Andrew]

There's nothing bloody new there, we always get it in the neck... you know why? because when we say something, we don't piss about around the houses, we come right out with it... sorry if that's harsh, but fgs, a few of us come out of hiding and post a bit and omg... we're gay bashing... whatever satin, you need to get with the damn program and try READING SOMETHING for a change instead of jumping to flaming conclusions, posting this bullcrap and stirring....

*goes off to bang head against brick wall... maybe I'll paint it purple*well bleeding said Tamara!, i dont understand why this thread has been started, am i missing something please tell me??, ive seen no gay bashing on the forum by ANY GG, all ive seen is GGs say they believe its cheating if they are with a CD and that CD goes off with a man, going with a man beyond the boundaries of a relationship is wrong and deceitful, dressed or not! I too agreed with this and i will agree with this til the day i die!

[Tamara Croft]

People can think crossdressing is nasty, disgusting, perverted or whatever. I wish they didn't think that, but that is the way it is for many. I let them think and say what they want, and perhaps there is an opportunity to educate along the way. What is not acceptable is denying someone the same rights enjoyed by all because of crossdressing (for example, getting fired because a fellow colleague discovered you wear clothing of the opposite sex during your free time).But no one has said that.... the whole thing has started because someone gloated about their SO being away and then they cheated with ANOTHER MAN...

:Pullhair:

[Ema1234 GG]

Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.[/COLOR]


Please don't make generalisations about us. Everyone hates it when we do it about CDers. And since when have us GG's been taking part in this so called bashing? I certainly haven't seen a single GG take part in this.

If you are refering to our comments on the thread about how many people have been with a guy, we weren't trying to put anyone down. The point we were trying to make (and that so many people appear to have missed) is that is that really appropriate for the forum? Is it really the type of image you want to portray of the CDing community to people who are here seeking help and answers (e.g. SO's who have recently found out).

Do you honestly want to potentially miss the opportunity to help a GG become accepting and understand what CDing really is for something so insignificant. Afterall, I often see replies to new GG's posts reassuring her that it is unlikely her partner is gay, wants to sleep with other men etc. Kinda seems ironic really when you consider the topic of the current most popular thread.

Yes we should all be dubious of what we read on the internet, how do we know it's really true? But in that situation, a GG is likely to take most things at face value. I know I certainly would have done.

But the one thing I do not agree with in any way shape or form is cheating on your partner. Being unfaithful is not acceptable, it just isn't fair on the other party and I will be extremely outspoken about the fact. Fair enough, what you do in your own personal and private life is your choice, but to go glorifying it on the internet is just unacceptable. If you really feel the need to talk about it, then use one of the private forums but for goodness sake it really isn't a topic to be discussed in the open forums of this site that can be viewed by anyone at all.

Would you think it's acceptable to be unfaithful to your wife with another woman (a GG that is)? If the answer is no then how on earth can you justify being unfaithful to her with another man? If you really cannot be faithful to one person (be that a man or a woman) then you shouldn't be in a relationship.

But no, I certainly have no problem at all with any lifestyle (I think that pretty much covers gender and sexual choices) people choose to lead.

But I do think everyone on this site needs to think long and hard about the image it is portraying to the wider community and whether this is really the way you wish them to view the CDing community.

[celtic.blue.eyes]

I've intentionally stayed out of those threads, because I'm quite partial to the feminine side, and I do have some very strong feelings about honesty. But I will address to your concerns, even if they do border on the politically correct.


I have noticed that there is a certain degree of intolerance here on this board.

I wasn't going to make an issue out of this, but I seriously feel that I may want to search for somewhere else.

There is way too much bashing of homosexual and bisexuals here.

Words like "ick" and "eww" and "nasty" are not really needed.

Isn't the purpose of a forum to be open to everyone for honest discussion? If someone finds a man's genitals in their face to be "ick" and "eww" and "nasty", why shouldn't they be be able to express it? According to polls on this forum, About half of us feel that way.



Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.

So it's OK if GG's and SO's say something, but it's not OK if the rest of us do?? Personally, I believe in equality for everyone.


I want to remind everyone here that we all (at least the CDs/TGs) are involved in something that is generally not accepted by mainstream society. For you to call someone else "nasty" or "icky" is just plain ignorant!!

But consider that a lot of the CD's that express a desire to be with a guy are married or have female SO's. That is beyond plain ignorant, and they should be told so.


Don't be a hypocrite. We all want acceptance, and alienating one another is not going to get us where we want to be. We all have our opinions about things, but ripping into someone, the way I have seen done here, does not exactly solidify us as a community.

Gays and Lesbians are united, and they show support for one another...this is one reason that they are generally more accepted than CD/TGs.

I agree wholeheartedly. We can support each other, but that does not necessarily mean we have to like each and every action another CD does. Take for example the universally negative response of "borrowing" another woman's clothes. It was certainly OK for everyone to disagree, but I guess that was not a politically incorrect issue, so the PC police were not there.


Seriously...if you are straight, gay, or bi, it doesn't matter...we are all in this thing together. Slamming one another (don't even say it) for our sexual preferences or habits demeans us all and makes us nothing more than those we seek to change.

Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???

I have not been here long...and I feel that some of you are really great, and I feel that ALL of us deserve better than the treatment I have seen dished out here.

Please, let me know if I am out of line here. If this board is going to turn into a place that only CDs that are straight, out to their SOs (if they have them), and otherwise meet some kind of criteria can participate, beyond being CD/TG, then let me know...and I will be gone.
I don't think you are out of line, but you may want to consider the fact that everyone thinks a little differently, and be willing to accept that fact. While we may all be in the same boat, going in generally the same direction, there will be differences. So what? That's life!


Thanks,
Morgan

Actually I think you will find that the administrators of this forum do a really fine job of keeping things in line. They are accepting and open minded, but clamp down when things get out of hand. By all means, stick around! We may not see things eye to eye, but hey, I can accept that.

[Sugar]

There's nothing bloody new there, we always get it in the neck... you know why? because when we say something, we don't piss about around the houses, we come right out with it... sorry if that's harsh, but fgs, a few of us come out of hiding and post a bit and omg... we're gay bashing... whatever satin, you need to get with the damn program and try READING SOMETHING for a change instead of jumping to flaming conclusions, posting this bullcrap and stirring....

*goes off to bang head against brick wall... maybe I'll paint it purple*

Hot damn, this is getting good!!

You go girl! Lol

[Lora Olivia]

well i have to throw my :2c: in here...i just don't see that there is that much bashing...truthfully in my reading i find everyone pretty supportive of everyone...not 100% but dang this ain't a perfect world...now for me i am 1 body with 2 identities ...1 male who likes women and 1 female who Looks at men....because our body is male that makes me bi and so be it...now lets all have a nice glass of white zin:drink: and :hugs: everyone

[Alex!]

Tamara-

Quite right - I'm on your side here. My crossdressing example was just that - an example. I can't speak to anything else in this context because, like you and others here, I have no idea why this thread was started. I've always thought this forum was quite open and tolerant.

[Kieron Andrew]

Do you honestly want to potentially miss the opportunity to help a GG become accepting and understand what CDing really is for something so insignificant. Afterall, I often see replies to new GG's posts reassuring her that it is unlikely her partner is gay, wants to sleep with other men etc. Kinda seems ironic really when you consider the topic of the current most popular threadWell said Ema!...This is exactly why i thought the forum is going to be revised cos it seems quite apparent there is an elite group of MTFs that want to control what is said on this forum and push out much need support for GGs, who want to understand better, with posts like the one we are discussing there is no way some GGs are ever going to come to terms with their SOs dressing, and i thought thats what many wanted??? perhaps im wrong

[Deidra Cowen]

Bashing? Thats way over stating what goes on here. I have said it before and will again. This is a very friendly calm little place on the net with not much trolling & flaming.

That being said I would be less than honest if I did not say I too notice the funny little comments that some make like Ick!! or EWWW!! on the gay or bi threads. It did get on my nerves just a little but I have always just ignored those comments and moved on. By the way people that make those comments are revealing some discomfort or even doubt about their own sexuality is my opinion.

I do think that for some reason the GAY and BI girls tend to be the ones generating the more risque threads. This really is not a sex hookup site, nor a place for sex stories and all that. So dispite being BI I too sometimes get irratated at those threads where someone is trying to push the envelope a bit.

I fully admit and confess that I have slipped a time or two and posted in those sex threads....usually when in a playful lighthearted mood...and just wanting to be silly.

Oh yeah...I am proud to be in da Panty Police!!! Had fun with those threads when they were jumping up on the board every day. :tongueout I thought it was all good fun...but then again I probably offended some. Hmmm guess I obviously am not perfect nor above being judgemental myself! :p

[Ema1234 GG]

But consider that a lot of the CD's that express a desire to be with a guy are married or have female SO's. That is beyond plain ignorant, and they should be told so.


That is exactly the point that every GG has been trying to make. We aren't "gay bashing", we are trying to point out that it is unacceptable to do this whilst in a relationship.

And as for "cheater bashing" (yes I've just made up my own name for it) then I'm sorry for anyone I offened but I'll be the first to make my feelings known and remember where I left that 3x2...

But that goes for anyone, be them gay, straight, bi, CD, TG, TS or anything else you care to think of. If you can't be faithful to one person you shouldn't be in the relationship.


Well said Ema!...This is exactly why i thought the forum is going to be revised cos it seems quite apparent there is an elite group of MTFs that want to control what is said on this forum and push out much need support for GGs, who want to understand better, with posts like the one we are discussing there is no way some GGs are ever going to come to terms with their SOs dressing, and i thought thats what many wanted??? perhaps im wrong

Does a little GG dance...

But in all seriousness, it does make me question the reaction that many GG's who have found this site recently have had to that post. Have they gone away in horror and never posted because of it? I think chances are that I may have done.

And like Kieron said, I thought that for many being able to promote acceptance amongst GG's (or anyone for that matter) is what many on here wanted, but the current image that is being portrayed by this site is that the vast majority of CD's are gay or bi.

Yes sure some are, but I think the vast majority are not. However, you'd never guess that looking at the popularity of recent posts on here.

[Kieron Andrew]

If you can't be faithful to one person you shouldn't be in the relationship.thats it in a nutshell! :), very well put Ema, thanks :hugs:

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

That is exactly the point that every GG has been trying to make. We aren't "gay bashing", we are trying to point out that it is unacceptable to do this whilst in a relationship.

And as for "cheater bashing" (yes I've just made up my own name for it) then I'm sorry for anyone I offened but I'll be the first to make my feelings known and remember where I left that 3x2...

But that goes for anyone, be them gay, straight, bi, CD, TG, TS or anything else you care to think of. If you can't be faithful to one person you shouldn't be in the relationship.

Yuperoonie - you tell 'em. ;)

Put it this way - I divorced for my ex's adultery (and I bloody well made sure that was the stated reason too), I'd never consider leaving someone over a pair of knickers (and bras and basques and nighties and make-up and...).

I can only imagine how many women must feel and I'll bet the stereotypical crossdresser must come to mind. Therefore, he's going to be gay and going to want to go off with another man.

This forum is about offering support to GGs and family members of CDs and perpetuating that myth helps nobody at all, especially not the majority of CDers who are good, decent, honest people. In fact, that's what it seems many GGs like about our CDers, that they're a darn site more open and honest than most men out there.

I suggest a sticky at the top of the forum aimed at wives/girlfriends to discuss their straight, faithful CD partners to ensure that this message is seen and heard regardless of whoever posts about proud they are that they can use CDing as a valid reason to cheat.

[Dee Talbot]

So, here is what I find really amusing. I consider myself to be bisexual!!!!!! But because I prefer not to read stories of people glorifying their infidelity, nor to have them available to scare off other GG's, I am gay bashing!!!!! Whatever!!!!

I accept everyone. I just wish a little of that acceptance could get thrown my way!

Dee

[Toyah]

Bashing? Thats way over stating what goes on here. I have said it before and will again. This is a very friendly calm little place on the net with not much trolling & flaming.

That being said I would be less than honest if I did not say I too notice the funny little comments that some make like Ick!! or EWWW!! on the gay or bi threads. It did get on my nerves just a little but I have always just ignored those comments and moved on. By the way people that make those comments are revealing some discomfort or even doubt about their own sexuality is my opinion.

I do think that for some reason the GAY and BI girls tend to be the ones generating the more risque threads. This really is not a sex hookup site, nor a place for sex stories and all that. So dispite being BI I too sometimes get irratated at those threads where someone is trying to push the envelope a bit.

I fully admit and confess that I have slipped a time or two and posted in those sex threads....usually when in a playful lighthearted mood...and just wanting to be silly.

Oh yeah...I am proud to be in da Panty Police!!! Had fun with those threads when they were jumping up on the board every day. :tongueout I thought it was all good fun...but then again I probably offended some. Hmmm guess I obviously am not perfect nor above being judgemental myself! :p

Hunny you don't even come close to the closed minded asses here that are the panty police they know who they are, always judgmental always negative unless its their own view of what is right. I wont name names but they are a cancer in our midst so narrow minded and so influential it hurts

[Ema1234 GG]

I suggest a sticky at the top of the forum aimed at wives/girlfriends to discuss their straight, faithful CD partners to ensure that this message is seen and heard regardless of whoever posts about proud they are that they can use CDing as a valid reason to cheat.

A very good idea! :thumbsup:



I accept everyone. I just wish a little of that acceptance could get thrown my way!


I think a lot of GG's on here will echo that sentiment, I know I certainly do.

[Lora Olivia]

so a married couple who mutually chooses to have an open relationship(sex with other people) are just plain wrong?? whats up with this...its nobody's business but theirs...now what is wrong is if it is not mutually agreed upon...that is cheating....my best friend (his) wife has said that she wishes for me to be fulfilled as a woman, she loves us both and wants us both to be happy

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

so a married couple who mutually chooses to have an open relationship(sex with other people) are just plain wrong?? whats up with this...its nobody's business but theirs...now what is wrong is if it is not mutually agreed upon...that is cheating....my best friend (his) wife has said that she wishes for me to be fulfilled as a woman, she loves us both and wants us both to be happy

That's a choice you make in your relationship and that's fine.

The issue here is that a CDer bragged about waiting until his wife was out of town to do the dirty on her.

It's not comparable to your situation.

[PatriciaCD]

I dont usually post but i feel i must this time. I think this thread has gotten way off track. lets just keep it to the original topic. WHY WOULD SOMEONE WHO IS NOT ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM SOCIETY WANT TO PUT DOWN SOMEONE ELSE THAT IS NOT ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM SOCIETY?:2c: That makes us no different that those thast put us down. So how can we expect to be accepted if we cant accept each other?????

[Ema1234 GG]

Here we go again. No one has ever mentioned open relationships being wrong. But then again, that's people not fully reading someone elses post and then jumping to conclusions.

How on earth has anyone been talking about open relationships when words like "cheating" and "unfaithful" are being used. If all parties know fully what is going on and are consenting then there is nothing wrong with it, afterall it's their own private lives.

But it's when it's done behind one partners back that it becomes unacceptable.

[Kieron Andrew]

so a married couple who mutually chooses to have an open relationship(sex with other people) are just plain wrong?? whats up with this...its nobody's business but theirs...now what is wrong is if it is not mutually agreed upon...that is cheating....my best friend (his) wife has said that she wishes for me to be fulfilled as a woman, she loves us both and wants us both to be happythe issue isn't open relationships whereby the spouse knows the CD is going to go with a man...open agreed upon relationships seem perfectly responsible to me, in fact ive been in one myself, its when the CD intends to deceive the SO and do the nasty with a men behind her back the minute its turned and have no intention of discussing it with her

[Dee Talbot]

so a married couple who mutually chooses to have an open relationship(sex with other people) are just plain wrong?? whats up with this...its nobody's business but theirs...now what is wrong is if it is not mutually agreed upon...that is cheating....my best friend (his) wife has said that she wishes for me to be fulfilled as a woman, she loves us both and wants us both to be happy
No, but anyone who waits until their SO is unavailable, out of town, or unaware to engage in sexual behavior with another person, contrary to vows or committment they have made with that other person is in the wrong. What 2 people choose to do in the privacy of their relationship is no one elses business. As a wife, I have exchanged vows with my husband to be faithful to each other. I have a reasonable expectation that these vows will be kept. If my SO then dresses, feels like a different person - a woman- and indulges in sexual activity with another man or woman, then he has broken his vows and I have every right to be upset. Same thing goes if he does it in trousers. No one is saying that people cannot practice whatever sexual activity they want. But if you have committed to be faithful to anohter person, then be faithful. It is only if one is in an "open relationship" and has released their SO from that portion of their vows that sexual relations outside the relationship is acceptable.


Dee

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

I dont usually post but i feel i must this time. I think this thread has gotten way off track. lets just keep it to the original topic. WHY WOULD SOMEONE WHO IS NOT ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM SOCIETY WANT TO PUT DOWN SOMEONE ELSE THAT IS NOT ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM SOCIETY?:2c: That makes us no different that those thast put us down. So how can we expect to be accepted if we cant accept each other?????

That didn't happen - that would be much too simple. :D

There was a thread in which CDs were talking about sleeping with other men. Some CDs said, "Eww" or "Icky" about their thoughts regarding this.

GGs got the blame - cuz like it's obvious right, that if GGs are with a CD, we must hate the idea of sex with a man? Or summat.

And then this thread was started on the back of the one it occured on, in which the only time GGs had something to say was when a member boasted about being unfaithful to his wife - no GG brought the sex of either party into the equation, simply the unfaithfulness that occured.


See - easy peasy. :D

[Ema1234 GG]

its when the CD intends to deceive the SO and do the nasty with a men behind her back the minute its turned and have no intention of discussing it with her

Yup, that's exactly the problem!

If they really need to explore their sexuality then they shouldn't be in a relationship, and if they already are and they honestly can't surpress these thoughts and desires they should be a man and end it before they hurt their SO even more.


That didn't happen - that would be much too simple. :D

There was a thread in which CDs were talking about sleeping with other men. Some CDs said, "Eww" or "Icky" about their thoughts regarding this.

GGs got the blame - cuz like it's obvious right, that if GGs are with a CD, we must hate the idea of sex with a man? Or summat.

And then this thread was started on the back of the one it occured on, in which the only time GGs had something to say was when a member boasted about being unfaithful to his wife - no GG brought the sex of either party into the equation, simply the unfaithfulness that occured.


See - easy peasy. :D

Hippy Chick's Chick... A master of saying it like it is!

[Kieron Andrew]

and if they already are and they honestly can't surpress these thoughts and desires they should be a man and end it before they hurt their SO even more.or if thats the case, discuss it openly with the SO, rather than keeping it from them, there are SO's out there that will agree to an open relationship, or the chance for their spouse to explore their sexuality....if they dont agree to it then drop the idea or get the hell out the relationship before you even think of doing it anyway behind the SO's back

[Ema1234 GG]

there are SO's out there that will agree to an open relationship, or the chance for their spouse to explore their sexuality....

Very good point actually that I'd not thought about, no doubt because personally I couldn't agree to an open relationship.

I suffer from the green eyed monster far too much. But that would be regardless of whether he wanted to sleep with other women or other men, I just couldn't hack it!

[Dee Talbot]

or if thats the case, discuss it openly with the SO, rather than keeping it from themExactly. Give me the opportunity to accept or decline. If we are in a relationship, then let me at least have the option to say go for it or not for me.

And really, this argument is exactly the same one I used when I found my Barb's stash of clothing. Give me the choice to be part of your dressing or not. If two people love one another, they owe each other the dignity of communication.

Dee

[Lora Olivia]

Oh my, I think I have managed to misconvey my feeling here...i agree that any sexual relationship behind the back of you SO is totally wrong whether it be homo or hetero my apologies to any who I may have offended:hugs:

[AmandaM]

I hate you all! I hate you all! :tongueout :tongueout :tongueout :tongueout

LOL! Just kidding!

Remember, Mills, or is that Miller, the father of American Liberalism, dreamt of a day when all would have a place at the table. So, Gays, Baptists, Martians, we all get our say. But Please! Let's be kind to each other. The world sucks. And many in the world hate us. Let's try and remember that...:o

[SatinDoll00]

WHY WOULD SOMEONE WHO IS NOT ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM SOCIETY WANT TO PUT DOWN SOMEONE ELSE THAT IS NOT ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM SOCIETY? That makes us no different that those thast put us down. So how can we expect to be accepted if we cant accept each other?????

My original point exactly.

Where in my original post did I condone or promote anyone having extramarital affairs???!!!

Why is it that when someone stands up for the rights of a CD to find another man attractive that people assume that means in the context of wedlock?

You know, I am sorry I posted this thread...but it does show what the attitudes of many here are.

I will refrain from posting anything else concerning men or homosexuality or bisexuality here.

Congratulations. Those of you that sought to censor and oppress those of us that identify with that sexual orientation have successfully managed to do so.

Morgan

[Alex!]

I'm not sure. Sometimes I prefer tater-tots from french fries. Or potato chips. It's a mood thing.



I figured since this thread is venturing off track, I would step on the accelerator a bit for extra fun.

[SatinDoll00]

Hey...seriously

I apologize to anyone offended. It was not my original intent.

To the GGs/SOs. You have every right to be pissed when your partner cheats on you. I have been there and it sucks. That is one of the reasons why I originally said "I can understand it when the GGs/SOs do it..."

To the CDs that find the issue "icky". You have every right to your opinions. The only issue I have is that using negative terms like that tend to demean others. It is a forum for opinions. You have every right to speak yours as well.

WendyMe...no, I do not want, nor have I suggested, that those that post such opinions be silenced. You can close this thread...it won't matter much.

Tamara...I do not recall directly involving you...you seem upset. I am sorry if I offended you.

To everyone else...my original intent was to unify...not divide. I guess this is an old debate?? I have not been party to it before, so I did not know that it was old issue that had been settled.

You all are entitled to your opinions...as am I. A forum like this is majority rules. Perhaps my "BS" post is not popular. I was only speaking from my heart. My opinions are mine and mine alone. As I stated above...I have learned from this. This forum does not seem the place to post about bi or homosexual desires. I will not do so again. There are many other topics to discuss concerning CDing that will be less offensive to those sensative to the subject.

I like this forum, I feel as though I have met several kindred spirits here. Unfortunately, I am in the learning curve period. I posted a panty pic, that got removed...MY OWN FAULT. I did not read the rules of the forum. I know now what is acceptable and what is not. I will keep my opinions concerning this subject out of these posts...like many have indicated that they would prefer.

As far as I am concerned, the issue is closed. Anyone that wants to continue to attack me for this...please go ahead...I do not mind. We are all different, and I understand that my ideas are not necessarily shared by all those here.

I really do not want to leave the forum. I posted that in anger. If the admins want me gone, they can do that...it is their job to make sure that everyone here is happy. Apparently I made some people unhappy with this post. Oh well...not much I can do about it now.

I can agree to disagree.

Morgan

[AmandaM]

OK! Whaaaat, have you got....against french fries? :devil:


I'm not sure. Sometimes I prefer tater-tots from french fries. Or potato chips. It's a mood thing.

I figured since this thread is venturing off track, I would step on the accelerator a bit for extra fun.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

I have noticed that there is a certain degree of intolerance here on this board.

Morgan

AMEN SISTER!
WHAT SHE SAID AND DOUBLE!!
KEW

[BarbaraTalbot]

OK! Whaaaat, have you got....against french fries? :devil:

I mean they are obviously meant to be suggestive.

back on track:

my first post was originally entirely in support of the original post. I only edited it when it seemed that being "accepting" was suddenly interpreted by others (not the o.p.) as meaning that only those who are less than enthusiastic about explicit meanderings of mind need to just be glad for the assault on the senses or close their eyes.

further back to the original post that spawned this thread:
It had EXPLICIT description of what it is that this person (who had 2 posts at that point) had decided to do with a stranger in a car and stated that she felt free to do this because the SO was out of town. I realize now that the since edited version seems pretty tame. Now it just says hey, My SO left town and I had my first experience with a man. If they had posted just that, It wouldn't have been any different than many other posts, I might (but probably not) mention that cheating is an issue.

It was the fact that a new person who most likely had found an eager-to-hear-it-audience on a forum designed for explicit discussions previously, took one look at our threads and our posts and said, hey here is another place it has crossdresser in the title so it must be a place where such explicit discussion is appropriate.

[SatinDoll00]

Barbara...

I guess this is a messy area. I was not advocating that anyone go outside their relationship, whatever that may be, to find sexual happiness.

It seems the line gets blurry for some, on both sides of the issue. By posting that a man (CD or not) as the right to find another man attractive, somehow I have been misunderstood as saying that having sex outside of commited relation is okay. I did not, nor would I.

There is temptation all around us. If we choose to succumb to that temptation, it matters not what our sexual orientation is...only that we have chosen to commit an act of betrayal.

My original post was not really about the attack on the person that cheated on his wife or SO, it was about the use of language to describe the feeling that someone gets in reading about another's sexual preference.

I know now that my words were wasted and my meaning was lost.

Please, accept my sincere apology if I offended you. It was never my intent.

Morgan

[BarbaraTalbot]

Barbara...

I guess this is a messy area. I was not advocating that anyone go outside their relationship, whatever that may be, to find sexual happiness.

It seems the line gets blurry for some, on both sides of the issue. By posting that a man (CD or not) as the right to find another man attractive, somehow I have been misunderstood as saying that having sex outside of commited relation is okay. I did not, nor would I.

There is temptation all around us. If we choose to succumb to that temptation, it matters not what our sexual orientation is...only that we have chosen to commit an act of betrayal.

My original post was not really about the attack on the person that cheated on his wife or SO, it was about the use of language to describe the feeling that someone gets in reading about another's sexual preference.

I know now that my words were wasted and my meaning was lost.

Please, accept my sincere apology if I offended you. It was never my intent.

Morgan

nope you didnt offend me at all that is why I agreed with your original post. I meant it when I said it is easy for me to see when I am offended but not why something I believe might offend others. I am sure we can all work on that.

For example, I have frequently stated my relief at finding out that being a CD doesn't mean I am gay. It wouldn't have occurred to me that my relief at that is also the opposite for someone who has same sex attraction (and are wondering where it "came" from) and decide that gender issues played a role.

I just think a little sensitivity all the way around with a focus more on the actual activity of crossdressing is where we have more common ground.

[SatinDoll00]

nope you didnt offend me at all that is why I agreed with your original post. I meant it when I said it is easy for me to see when I am offended but not why something I believe might offend others. I am sure we can all work on that.

For example, I have frequently stated my relief at finding out that being a CD doesn't mean I am gay. It wouldn't have occurred to me that my relief at that is also the opposite for someone who has same sex attraction (and are wondering where it "came" from) and decide that gender issues played a role.

I just think a little sensitivity all the way around with a focus more on the actual activity of crossdressing is where we have more common ground.

Being CD certainly does not make you gay. Being gay makes you gay :)

Morgan

[suzannecarr]

i myself am i cd mtf, i am a very honest person , when i first started dressing( very young) i thought it icky to look at a boy, or guy or man , as something attractive! but as i began to learn about myself and other things, i seemed to change , maybe i matured, maybe other factors, but now, and it has to be certain situations, i am attracted to a certain type of man, and do have certain, well lets just say fantasies on a , well, quite frequent basis! and back before i did, well, i have to admit that there were certain times when looking back , i was attracted , and at one time pursued by a guy! as a matter of fact, now, i wish i had just let it happen, because he saw me totally as a female! i was actually dressed , and its a long story. i think and i am entitled to my opinion that many , probably many here! if they get right down to it have had similiar experiences, and you know what? thats ok!(stewart smalley) but some may havent and thats ok too! bottom line i have seen the bashing myself, ive actually had it happen here, and really i didnt even pay attention, i believe there was some insecurity involved with the situation! I AM ATTRACTED TO CERTAIN MEN! geez that feels honest! and i dont think this thread was bs, because i can see the point very clearly! for those who get angry and accuse the original thread starter of starting something. well ive seen alot worse and its a valid discussion!:2c: suz

[brylram]

Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.

You seem very concerned with intolerant, exclusive, and belittling posts within the forum. Yet statements like this one demonstrate that you yourself havent stopped to think about what intolerances you may be expressing. This statement expresses, to me, a lack of respect for GGs and SOs, almost as though you expect them to be less than respectful, as well as petty. It seems dismissive and belittling. and bordering on heterophobic. This seems especially innapropriate in the context of your post, which is all about acceptance and inclusion.

Personally, I find statements that imply such positions just as insulting as outright statements of "ick" and "eww", because subtlety does not, unfortunately, bypass insult. It also seems insulting that you would expect that simply because matters of homo or bi-sexuality are appealing and acceptable to you, that they will also be so for other members of the forum. In seeing your own insult at their homophobic statements, you have failed to recognize that perhaps your posts cause great discomfort (if not even a feeling of disclusion or lack of safety) for them. And in pushing in this manner for acceptance and a feeling of safety (and ironically enough, unity), you may also be infringing upon theirs. It seems you've amended such beliefs, if they ever existed, but I feel the need to make this statement anyway.

I hope I have not misinterpreted your intentions or underlying feelings in what you have said, but I feel it's necessary to acknowledge that perhaps a GG or SO who read your original post drew the same conclusion from your statement (which seems less than well thought out to me) and that their potential hurt is just as serious as that which you have experienced.


i dont think this thread was bs, because i can see the point very clearly! for those who get angry and accuse the original thread starter of starting something. well ive seen alot worse and its a valid discussion!
While I agree that it is most certainly a valid discussion, many of the negative reactions appear to be stemming from 'political' and inter-social conflicts within the forum, and a knowledge of the underlying influences for the creation of this board, rather than disagreement with the content.

[SatinDoll00]

You seem very concerned with intolerant, exclusive, and belittling posts within the forum. Yet statements like this one demonstrate that you yourself havent stopped to think about what intolerances you may be expressing. This statement expresses, to me, a lack of respect for GGs and SOs, almost as though you expect them to be less than respectful, as well as petty. It seems dismissive and belittling. and bordering on heterophobic.


I would agree with your statement...had I made a statement of disrespect to the GGs or SOs on the forum. In fact, if you read what I posted, I completely understand why someone that is in a relationship with a CD might post opinions that are negative to bi or homosexual behavior. I suppose I did not use language that was simple enough to be understood.

The fact is, many CDs have bi or homosexual tendencies. To suppress that because anyone (GG, CD, TS, TG, Bi, Homo, or anyone else) may be offended is simply denying the fact that the issue exists.

You say that I have expectations of the GGs/SOs here. In fact...I do not. My only point was that I can relate to where they are coming from, whereas I cannot relate to a CD that shows distain for a fellow CD because of sexual orientation.

Your words are eloquent enough...but my original point has somehow escaped you.

My intent was not to attack GGs or SOs...quite the opposite. Perhaps I should have chosen better semantics. The issue I had is that making negative remarks concerning someone's sexual preference, while posting on a board that is supposed to offer support to those that operate outside the norm is hypocritical. I stand by that remark.

I agreed that I would not post anything else concerning sexuality, since it seems to make some uncomfortable, and I will not...but I will defend myself, and those that need it, in this thread!

Take what you will from my remarks, but remember this, there are a lot of people out there that would tell you, me, anyone that what all of us do is wrong.

Only TOGETHER can we change the attitudes of those that seek to oppress and deny us.

Morgan

[brylram]

I would agree with your statement...had I made a statement of disrespect to the GGs or SOs on the forum.


Your words are eloquent enough...but my original point has somehow escaped you.

Thank you for the compliment. However, my point also seems to have been lost on you. The statement that "they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up." in reference to GGs and SOs when faced with the concept of a homosexual man, is highly offensive. It thoroughly implies that they are insecure enough with their own relationships and sexualities, that the notion of a man loving another man, rather than a woman, would automatically send them into a defensive tizzy. Almost to say that the automatic reaction would be "Dear lord! The potential for rejection or disinterest from a man I most likely am not attracted to anyway?! However shall I cope?! Gather the torches girls, let's express homophobia to keep our playing field open!"

Had I not witnessed intolerance expressed in such a manner being thrown in BOTH directions many times in real life, and often to the emotional detriment of those on the recieving end, I most likely would not have a problem with this. However, I have, and so I do. And I stand by my request that you acknowledge that your statement too was a version of discrimination, and no less serious than the others shown elsewhere on this forum.

[SatinDoll00]

The statement that "they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up." in reference to GGs and SOs when faced with the concept of a homosexual man, is highly offensive. It thoroughly implies that they are insecure enough with their own relationships and sexualities, that the notion of a man loving another man, rather than a woman, would automatically send them into a defensive tizzy.

Not my intent.

Rather...I was merely stating that if a GG/SO had that feeling, I could understand it. I am not, nor did I mean to, imply that a GG or SO (either gender for that matter) necessarily has to constantly concern themselves with the prospect that their Crossdressing partner may indulge in pleasure outside the relationship...I was merely stating that I could understand that those that did feel that way were justified. I must admit...my verbiage was not absolutely perfect. I did not mean to imply what you are assigning to my words. I am merely stating that I can understand, and certainly relate to, someone that has had a bad experience, or might feel intimidated at the specter of finding their partner in a situation with someone of the same sex; that situation being outside the confines of the relationship.

With all of that said, I amend my original statement to include the following..."I understand a GG or SO that has experienced infidelity ..."

My original intent was to empathize with, not alienate, GGs/SOs.

I suppose when the written word is read, there is no inflection, so sometimes careful explanation is required.

Morgan

[brylram]

I suppose when the written word is read, there is no inflection, so sometimes careful explanation is required.


Too often the case. I appreciate your explanation, and apologize for my misinterpretation. Unfortunately, when it seems a negative context could be applied, I find it's important to argue in defence against said context. It's better to err in favour of potentially pointing out and addressing inconsistencies and wrong-doing, and reconcile the misunderstanding later, than to risk leaving something negative unchecked.

[SatinDoll00]

Too often the case. I appreciate your explanation, and apologize for my misinterpretation. Unfortunately, when it seems a negative context could be applied, I find it's important to argue in defence against said context. It's better to err in favour of potentially pointing out and addressing inconsistencies and wrong-doing, and reconcile the misunderstanding later, than to risk leaving something negative unchecked.

I could not agree more.

Morgan

[Sheri 4242]

Whew! I hadn't bothered to read this thread until it kept coming to the top of Page One. Then all of a sudden something my wife said made sense. She was upset about an issue regarding infidelity. I have to admit, I wasn't certain what she was talking about at the time.

What are we really talking about??? If it is an issue that, once asuming one's "second self personna," a person is free of the constraints of their marital vows, then I'd take issue with that, as would my wife.

If it is an issue that this forum should be tolerant of those with many different orientations, then I'd say I have rarely seen much intolerant stances on this forum.

:lol2: If it is an issue of Toyah picking on my political beliefs, then banish her!!! :lol2:

(Just joking, Toyah -- I think you know that there are those of us with some right-wing leanings on some issues that also have liberal leanings on other issues . . . and maybe even libertarian leanings on still other issues. I'm still not certain who needs to run down who? :lol2: But, in the main, I think we agree on a majority of issues -- and are respectful when we don't.)

I've never known Morgan to make a comment that was anything but thoughtful, and when if not in agreement with whomever, at least was respectful.

Obviously we have a wide representation of people here and, as someone said, no place is perfect.

Actually, I feel a bit like Kieron:

. . . am i missing something please tell me??, ive seen no gay bashing on the forum by ANY GG, all ive seen is GGs say they believe its cheating if they are with a CD and that CD goes off with a man, going with a man beyond the boundaries of a relationship is wrong and deceitful, dressed or not! I too agreed with this and i will agree with this til the day i die!

I couldn't agree more!!!


I prefer not to read stories of people glorifying their infidelity . . .

Again, I couldn't agree more!!!

But, as I recall Tamara GG, a few others, and me discussing several months ago, there is nothing funny about adultery!!! It is MHO that anything that detracts from your emotional commitment to your SO is wrong!!! Having been the victims of infidelity, my wife and I are both pretty adamant regaring our feelings on the subject!!! It isn't a matter of whether a person is straight, bi, or gay/lesbian: infidelity is infidelity!!!


the issue isn't open relationships whereby the spouse knows the CD is going to go with a man...open agreed upon relationships seem perfectly responsible to me, in fact ive been in one myself, its when the CD intends to deceive the SO and do the nasty with a men behind her back the minute its turned and have no intention of discussing it with her

I agree -- IF that is what the two have agreed upon, then that's their business!!!


No, but anyone who waits until their SO is unavailable, out of town, or unaware to engage in sexual behavior with another person, contrary to vows or committment they have made with that other person is in the wrong. Dee

Absolutely agree!!!

Like Morgan said, I feel as though I have met several kindred spirits on this forum.

I also agree with Morgan that when dealing with the written word, there is no inflection -- or facial expressions to watch, etc. -- so sometimes you have to be careful how you state things.

[Lisa Golightly]

A virtual storm, in a virtual teacup, in a virtual world of near virtual people... :)

[SatinDoll00]

A virtual storm, in a virtual teacup, in a virtual world of near virtual people... :)

A valid, and subtle point.

Morgan

[Chantelle CD]

I have noticed that there is a certain degree of intolerance here on this board.

I wasn't going to make an issue out of this, but I seriously feel that I may want to search for somewhere else.

There is way too much bashing of homosexual and bisexuals here.

Words like "ick" and "eww" and "nasty" are not really needed.

Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.

I want to remind everyone here that we all (at least the CDs/TGs) are involved in something that is generally not accepted by mainstream society. For you to call someone else "nasty" or "icky" is just plain ignorant!!

Don't be a hypocrite. We all want acceptance, and alienating one another is not going to get us where we want to be. We all have our opinions about things, but ripping into someone, the way I have seen done here, does not exactly solidify us as a community.

Gays and Lesbians are united, and they show support for one another...this is one reason that they are generally more accepted than CD/TGs.

Seriously...if you are straight, gay, or bi, it doesn't matter...we are all in this thing together. Slamming one another (don't even say it) for our sexual preferences or habits demeans us all and makes us nothing more than those we seek to change.

Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???

I have not been here long...and I feel that some of you are really great, and I feel that ALL of us deserve better than the treatment I have seen dished out here.

Please, let me know if I am out of line here. If this board is going to turn into a place that only CDs that are straight, out to their SOs (if they have them), and otherwise meet some kind of criteria can participate, beyond being CD/TG, then let me know...and I will be gone.

Thanks,
Morgan

You are not alone my friend in your thoughts, and i have also thought about changing forums as well, for i have felt judged by a fair few here for my beliefs feelings and thoughts as i grow with this part of myself, and understanding of myself, sure i may say one thing, and really believe it, but then it changes a month later as i get a deeper understanding. I have noticed a lac of replies to my posts by a great number of people on here as well, and that includes Admins as well!!! It does seem as though there are a lot here that tend to judge, and hate others for there opinions and beliefs as they grow with this part of themselves, Hmmm something i thought this forum was all about, would have expected more from the leaders of this forum! Its not acceptance that i seek really, for this crossdressing thing, TS, TG gay, or bi, pfft comeon peops its simple judgment and giving another there right to there own life experiances, and allowing them to have it, and to still see them for what they really are, LIGHT, alive, a point of view in this amazing world we ummmmmmm....SHARE maybe.

On the other hand, there are a few people that dont judge, and have really big hearts, they are the ones that keep me here, as i try to grow, and become what i am, and finaly stop the battels with myself.

You are like a breath of fresh air here, if you do go, let me know where you go and feel at home with others that want to grow, and not be judged.

<hugs>

[Sheri 4242]

A virtual storm, in a virtual teacup, in a virtual world of near virtual people... :)


A valid, and subtle point. Morgan

Virtually! :lol2:

[Michelia]

I know better than getting in on this thread, yet..

Satin Doll, I for one appreciate your comments and I know it is not easy to say it like you feel it. So Kudos to you.

I also do not agree with your extreme position. I do not think there is active "gay bashing", but I have observed many instances of insensitive remarks. Yo9u do not have to call people "ignorant", just call them on their ways. But then, I think you are being a little oversensitive. I am that way too.

I do not agree that you are "trolling".

Please do not leave. You are doing fine. Speak up when you have to without threatening to leave. There will always be those that aggravate us a little. That probably applies to everyone here.

The most important principle here is that it is always a balancing act between freedom of expression and getting into other people's hair. This is a tough job to manage for our moderators. I rather it be a free place. This means there will always be some hurt feelings, including our own.

The second principle is that we are all human and have emotions and different experiences and make mistakes. We also need to forgive each other from time to time.

Michelia

[battybattybats]

Regarding adultery.. I started a thread a while back on the topic after seeing the remarkable statistic on tv that almost a third of people 'cheated'. Male and female.

It's all to easy to characterise these people as 'bad' and look at the situation simplistically. Perhaps for 1 in 3 people monogamy is an unrealistic goal?

If someone feels they need more than one partner it still isn't right for them to risk exposing an unknowing partner to stds. Many will be scared that informing their partner about such a need would end the relationship possibly effecting children. Considering how strictly the social expectation of monogamy is despite the clearly massive numbers who fail to live up to it there should be little surprise that such a risk would be very real.

No-one said doing the right thing was easy.

Regarding impressions...
The notion that we should avoid discussing some topics because it could turn away some folk seems a dangerous one. Denying support to some CDs and their SOs to make things comfortable for others? Surely things can be made comfortable for folks without ostracising the gay, bi or less conservative CDs who need support just as much as anyone else? Surely we needn't make important topics like sex and sexuality a complete taboo just to ensure the site is friendly to all?

Little good comes of pointing accusatory fingers. Little good comes from hounding off the forum those with different values either.

With 1 in 3 here probably cheaters, CD and GG alike (unless there is something special about CDs that make them or those they are attracted to especially faithful) there may be a lot of hypocrasy about.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

[Chelseaswpa]

Well being one of those awful gay dressers:heehee: just kidding - I love this site because I can come here and interact without any type of undue innuendo or "trolling". I have never felt the least bit insulted or anything like that. I think we are making mountains out of molehills- hey wait a minute gets me to thinking hmmm:hugs: hugs to you all and get over it that is what I have been doing for 40 years of gay jokes and snide remarks- I consider the source and move on- if it is someone I may be able to change their mind I may attempt it. Hey this place is too cool for school for me:stirthepot:

[Margot]

:2c:It's too bad this got started. Can I end it on a humerous note?
"People in glass slippers shouldn't throw stones".
Love to all!!!
Margot
:love:

[Sky]

I have noticed that there is a certain degree of intolerance here on this board.
...
Don't be a hypocrite. We all want acceptance, and alienating one another is not going to get us where we want to be. We all have our opinions about things, but ripping into someone, the way I have seen done here, does not exactly solidify us as a community.
...
Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???
...
Please, let me know if I am out of line here.

Thanks. First, for putting things so clear. Also for reminding me that all hope is not lost (I tend to feel down when surrounded by judgmental posts). And incidentally, there is a sticky dedicated to ideas to revamp the forum which includes -among other things- more compartimenting (it's a technicality for "segregation").

[Wendy me]

Thanks. First, for putting things so clear. Also for reminding me that all hope is not lost (I tend to feel down when surrounded by judgmental posts). And incidentally, there is a sticky dedicated to ideas to revamp the forum which includes -among other things- more compartimenting (it's a technicality for "segregation").

were did you get that upgrading the forum was "segregation"????????? could not be even close to right on that........:thumbsdn:...........

[Angie G]

I've known a few gay men and woman and never had a problem being around them my helper at work is a gay girl and a great person.
No one here should try to pass judgment or make remarks about anyone
what is normal it no one where.
Satin don't judge this board by a few people that is why we have an ignore list No matter were you go you will find someone like this can we let them see they think wrong :hugs:
Angie

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???

We definitely need a special forum for badgers. Ideally with free beer :drink::drink::drink:

When I first joined this forum I was quite frankly appalled at the homophobic content of some of the posts. Thankfully things have improved recently.

[AmandaM]

Now that we've all got our panties in a bunch, can we get back to our regular programming? :drink:

[Shadeauxmarie]

We definitely need a special forum for badgers.

Badgers? Badgers? We don't need no stinking badgers!

[cadon]

Being new here, I have yet to see any behaviors of bashing taking place. Either way, bashing and closed mindedness occur everyplace, everyday in life ordinarily. It's apparent in cities, towns, and even in the most of rural places. It's positive name is diversity.
As a young child, I was taught to demonstrate acceptance and to discard negative actions. To fight with someone beneath your level will only bring you down..to engage in a worthwhile cause fight with someone who may be bigger, smarter, or hold more authority -- you may learn something.
To express yourself in a non traditional manner, such as CD, choosing an alternative lifestyle (bi, gay), or accepting the choice to live a transgender identity is enough of a struggle for those who do it everyday. So why discriminate against each other in this forum??? It's hard enough to spend the extra time each and every day accepting yourself for the person you are (for all people). Each and every person has their own issues how we show them and react to situations shows the world how strong we are.

You kill more flies with honey than vinegar. When someone is not so nice, just smile at them and say have a good day. It leaves them baffled and even more frustrated with themselves.

thats my :2c:

[PortiaHoney]

Being new to this Forum, I have found some threads to be not to my taste, so why comment, move on to what you are looking for. Find what is important to you. there is plenty to choose from. I, for one, love the acceptance and support. There are other sites which are more risque are out there, which is why i came here. I think that some CD's have such an issue accepting their own behaviour and the questions it raises about ourselves that they tend to strike out at what is outside their point of view, even though that view is definately outside the norm. I can live with EWWE or whatever, to each their own taste.

Yes, some of us have had bad relationship experiences, it leaves a bitter taste. It's all in the healing. It's up to the rest of us to spread tolerance and understanding as part of our acceptance of our own "deviant" behaviour. And I said that from the "mainstream" point of view. We are all here for "healing" from one wound or another.

We come here for acceptance and personal growth. As part of that growth, some will stretch the boundaries, as any of you who have had kids will know. Age does not necessarily bring wisdom, that comes with experience. There are controls in place to keep the way over the top stuff out (I hope there is). We should learn more tolerance of others from the GG's and not just learn makeup and clothes. We strive for acceptance, yet we ourselves cannot accept diversity? What is it about the female gender that so attracts us to look like them yet not be like them?

People are people are people.

Smile and make someone wonder what you've been up to..............

[Veronica Fallon]

My, my... I'm still new here & haven't yet seen this much passion in a thread!

I'm Bi also & do tend to notice an occasional insensitive adjective or remark from a rare sister. I've been guilty of the same in my ignorant past & I'm sure I'll slip-up again sometimes in this life. Unless it's obviously someones intention to be nasty I just let it roll on by me because I know we're all just children in different "grades of school". I still choose to completely support my straight sisters since we are ALL TG, & need solidarity if we ever wanna have acceptance from the "drab-world".

As true "ladies" we might just use gentle reminders now & then to remind each other of that fact. Now how about a big group hug & let's trade some make-up tips as we make up?:hugs::hugs::hugs:

Bi-Bye,

Veronica

[gennee]

I see where you're coming from SatinDoll. I have learned from everyone here and every forum. This was the first forum I joined after outted myself as a CD/TG.

You're right when you say that we're all in this together.

Gennee

[wifeofsissy GG]

I posted a treat a few weeks back about "For those of you who likes to be dominated". Right away, I got response like this: "it seems to me that this topic is not an appropriate one for public discussion here". So I had to edit my msg to have the ones interested to PM me. You wouldn't beleive the response I got and still getting.:D

The way I look at it is like this. If the TOPIC offends you right off the bat......THAN DON"T GO INTO IT. It's that simpe.

If you think that there's gay/lesbian baching in here, you should see when you are into BDSM and Sub/Dom.........they freak:eek:

Wifeofsissy GG

[Robin Leigh]

This thread still going? Wow! I suppose I should throw in my :2c:

Firstly, the issue of infidelity. It's fairly clear that the general forum opinion is that being CD or Bi is not an excuse to permit infidelity. This is a support forum for crossdressing, not adultery. If people want to brag about their infidelity, they should not expect approval here.

Sometimes, people do have affairs & get themselves into trouble. That's understandable. But I can't say much to them until they break up with one or the other, except "Stop it!". :Angry3: When they stop cheating, I am here to give my support.

Infidelity hurts. It's not nice to have your beating heart ripped from your chest & stomped upon by the person who you thought loved you. :(

.....

And now for homophobia, etc.

Sometimes remarks are made here that are less than diplomatic, but no real insult is intended. You could put it down to some people not being very familiar with all the different strands of our community here. And it's so easy for misunderstandings to occur with these sensitive topics, as this thread itself shows!:heehee:

Sometimes, hetero CDs loudly proclaim they don't want people to think they are gay. No insult to gay people is intended. It's just hard for a straight GM to get a relationship if everyone thinks he's gay. :) Or if the CD's already in a committed relationship, and the SO is concerned on this matter, the CD will do everything possible to reassure her.

Perhaps such statements could be expressed in a more diplomatic fashion?

:hugs:

Robin

[Sheri 4242]

I have noticed a lac of replies to my posts by a great number of people on here as well, and that includes Admins as well!!!

Well, I can only speak for myself, but this is not the first time I have heard someone say -- usually a neophyte to the site -- that they aren't getting replies to threads they start, not even from the administrators. Just from what I have learned in the time I have been on here: (a.) It isn't the administrator's job to reply to every thread, or even any threads -- they just monitor things to make sure forum rules are being followed. That said, any number of them will respond any time they have something to say about a thread -- you can tell this by the fact that they have such a large number of postings. (b.) Not every thread will generate what you might hope for or desire. I have had a few threads I have started that went absolutely nowhere when I expected a huge response. And, conversely, I have some that I thought were mundane-but-interesting that exploded with responses when I expected otherwise. You never know -- it depends on who is on, who is lurking, and who is away.

The thing is, say what is on your heart, within the bounds of the forums rules and respectful decorum, and I think you will find the interaction on this forum to be good and very respectful!!!


Being new to this Forum, I have found some threads to be not to my taste, so why comment, move on to what you are looking for. Find what is important to you. there is plenty to choose from. I, for one, love the acceptance and support. There are other sites which are more risque are out there, which is why i came here. I think that some CD's have such an issue accepting their own behaviour and the questions it raises about ourselves that they tend to strike out at what is outside their point of view, even though that view is definately outside the norm. I can live with EWWE or whatever, to each their own taste.

You've got it! Don't be a fish -- hooked and pulled into someone trolling or a topic you don't have any interest in. If you find something that interests you, say what you feel. If you aren't interested in a thread's topic, move on. I, like I think most on here, pass over a goodly number of threads b/c they hold no interest and look for those that center on what I am interested in, or where I think I can contribute something.

All-in-all, this forum is excellent!!!!!!! Sure it has a few bumps from time-to-time, but in my experience, it has less than any forum I have ever participated in.

One topic that seems to raise the ire of a whole lot of participants is adultery!!! Having been a victim, myself, I understand this b/c while I can debate many topics -- and hopefully disagree without being disagreeable when such situations arise -- adultery is, IMHO, the single-most harmful/hurtful action a person can perpetuate against another where there is supposed to exist solemn vows!!! Like Diane Lane's character says in Under The Tuscan Sun, the amazing thing about divorce is that doesn't actually kill you!


Firstly, the issue of infidelity. It's fairly clear that the general forum opinion is that being CD or Bi is not an excuse to permit infidelity. This is a support forum for crossdressing, not adultery. If people want to brag about their infidelity, they should not expect approval here.

I "think" this is how this cuurrent firestorm got started -- someone "bragged" about how an upcoming trip of their spouse would allow them to dress and go out and pick up same-sex partners. I know of a couple of GG's that this really upset -- and I understand that!!! I also know how it upset some (many?) of us who are TG/TS/TV/CD (whatever), not b/c of intolerance for bisexuality, but b/c of the deceit and infidelity!!!

IMO, this is, compared to other sites, a remarkably tolerant site, all things considered. That said, even with the best of sites, you are going to have some issues that generate heat!

I think Robin has noted another significant reason for why these things can become problematic:

Sometimes remarks are made here that are less than diplomatic, but no real insult is intended. You could put it down to some people not being very familiar with all the different strands of our community here. And it's so easy for misunderstandings to occur with these sensitive topics, as this thread itself shows!

Sometimes, hetero CDs loudly proclaim they don't want people to think they are gay. No insult to gay people is intended. It's just hard for a straight GM to get a relationship if everyone thinks he's gay. Or if the CD's already in a committed relationship, and the SO is concerned on this matter, the CD will do everything possible to reassure her.

Perhaps such statements could be expressed in a more diplomatic fashion?

I agree with Robin!!! I also have to wonder if the world-wide nature of this forum doesn't also play into this somewhat (not a lot, but somewhat). As we've seen in other threads, "language" can be problematic (even if everybody rsponding is from the same country).
Then, when you have members from other nations, well the problem just grows.

FOR EXAMPLE: In the UK they speak English -- but in America, English has all but disappeared!!! :lol2: Okay, funny, maybe -- serious, very likely!!! Sometimes I see the differences in our nationalities and cultures by, for example, how Americans JUMP right in any discussion, proclaiming certain constitutional freedoms. True, many other countries have tremndous freedoms, but it never ceases to amaze me how many of my fellow Americans think that what we have is automatically "the ruling standard" of the forum. The "rules" the site's owner established are the standard, not those of one nation over another!!!