Does being enfemme create a heterosexual experience? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 12:48 PM

Karren H

08-21-2007, 01:04 PM

Well ya never met me.. Lol. Heterosexual and faithful to the wife of 31 years!!! And I'm not really a sexual person per say but sex with another man just doesn't even peak my curiosity.. Zip.. Nothing...

Karren

KandisTX

08-21-2007, 01:07 PM

To date, I have meet 11 CDs…I had a short, intimate relationship with one.

I cannot count the number of posts I have read where a CD will claim that being a CD does not equate to being gay, it does not equate to being bi-sexual. Of the eleven CDs I have met not one was truly heterosexual in the traditional sense. Some had homosexual experiences, some fantasized about having homosexual experiences, and a couple of them had homosexual experiences and continue to fantasize about homosexual experiences, but all of them claimed it was only while enfemme. They all claimed to have no attraction to men and they all claimed to be heterosexual and only want to be with a woman. Some wanted to be with a dominant woman. Dominance is a trait strongly associated with men.
I have read many of the posts in this forum, but I don’t seem to ever find an answer to a question in the forums or from a conversation. Likely, I’m probably not asking the right one and few will elaborate beyond a point blank question. It’s the old, “If she doesn’t ask, I won’t tell”, mentality that drives women nuts and causes a lot of unnecessary grief.

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience? I am not certain which of those questions would be clearer for your understanding of what I am trying to ask.

I understand that having fantasies and acting on those fantasies are two different things. I am also aware that the definition of the words 'fantasy' and 'desire' are often confused by the general population.

I have nothing against someone exploring their sexuality, but I do have an issue with CDs claiming to be heterosexual yet still wanting homosexual experiences. It does seem to be an issue I share with many GGs.
Having said that, is it okay for you to conceal your past homosexual activities/current homosexual fantasies from your SO? Hmmm, that’s probably another thread topic.

:love:
Wickanne

1. I am a Heterosexual Male who crossdresses. Even if I were to fantasize about being with a man, that does not make me homosexual, it would make me more of a bi-curious status. Then again, here we go with the "labels" topic once more. As a man, I am sexually attracted to women, and that is whom I find as my partners. Have I had fantasies about men? most likely, but I don't recall any of them. Would I ever act on any of those fantasies? Doubtful. There are many CDs that are heterosexual who may or may not fantasize about being with a male, that does not make them homosexuals, nor does it make them bi-sexual. What it does make them is human.

2. As to concealing your sexual past from an SO. In my opinion, this is NEVER a good idea, unless you were unfaithful to them in one of them then that's entirely on you anyway. Concealing the fact that you had a homosexual trist would be like say playing Russian roullette and loading all the chambers but one. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Take for instance, God forbid, you are dianosed with an STD that was unknown to you before your current relationship, explain to your SO how you caught said disease when the ONLY way to transfer it is through contact of a sexual nature or through the exchange of body fluids. If you had told your SO that you were a virgin before you met, and you have this disease, that trust that should be there in the relationship is now gone.

Kandis:love:

Daphne Renee

08-21-2007, 01:14 PM

To date, I have meet 11 CDs…I had a short, intimate relationship with one.

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience? I am not certain which of those questions would be clearer for your understanding of what I am trying to ask.

:love:
Wickanne

Thats a question that will get you different answers for different people. Me personally I dont have a desire to be with men. I am not attracted to men while enfemme or in drab. I dont think there are many who would really believe a homosexual experience is anything other than just that.

If I understand your post correctly you don't consider someone heterosexual if they had some fantasies about being dominated or other things.. This is just my opinion but it does seem like a very narrow view of heterosexuality.

Stephenie S

08-21-2007, 01:15 PM

"Well ya never met me.. Lol. Heterosexual and faithful to the wife of 31 years!!! And I'm not really a sexual person per say but sex with another man just doesn't even peak my curiosity.. Zip.. Nothing...

Karren"

Nor me. I am in a loving, committed, and monogamous relationship with my dear partner. She is all and everything I could ever want. I have had many oportunities for a homosexual relationship over my lifetime. I never felt the need or the desire.

Many seem to, however. Enough so that we would be hard put to say it wasn't a major feature in the CD experience. As I have said before, "Whatever floats yer boat".

As long as you take full responsibility for your actions within your own relationship, I see no reason to reject or criticise it.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Toyah

08-21-2007, 01:16 PM

No I find the male form repulsive sexually whether dressed or not
I can assure you I have never had and certainly do not wish to have any such experiance TVM :hugs:

Elsbeth

08-21-2007, 01:25 PM

Another vote for just into girls regardless of how I am dressed - or which persona is manifest at the moment. My sexual orientation remains constant, I like women.

El

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 01:29 PM

If I understand your post correctly you don't consider someone heterosexual if they had some fantasies about being dominated or other things.. This is just my opinion but it does seem like a very narrow view of heterosexuality.

Quite the opposite. I am a little more educated than that :-) thanks to being brought up in a liberal minded environment.

:love:
Wickanne

RobertaFermina

08-21-2007, 01:33 PM

I am *historically* heterosexual.
In 32 years since my first sexual experience, I had one homosexual "sexual" experience.
I have had a handful of experiences of the beauty, a feminine beauty, in a man that I was attracted to.
I have had numerous moments when I thought "what a stud!" a man was, though I never felt sexual attraction alongside that.

I reserve the right to change, or discover I have repressed parts of myself that are relevant to my sexual orientation.

I believe I am attracted to femininity in women and in men.

I am ready to discover that I gladly share this with like minded persons.

I am happy to perform as a mostly masculine being. As for the other side of the plate...it remains only a curious, though tempting possibility!

I did make a date once, and he cancelled....I'm patient...waiting for Mr. or 'Ms.' Right.....but I believe I AM Waiting !

What allows me to be honest about this is to realize that a whole new world of human experience is awaiting me, and it would be a deeper shame to let any shame about appearances prevent me going wherever my soul has decreed its happy destiny !

:rose: Roberta :rose:

Deborah Jane

08-21-2007, 01:34 PM

Men just don,t do anything for me, it doesn,t matter what i wear i,ve never had the slightest interest in men sexually!! Nuff said!!

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 01:53 PM

Seems the background information may be interfering with the actual question. Let's try just the question:

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience? I am not certain which of those questions would be clearer for your understanding of what I am trying to ask.

If men do nothing for you then this question wouldn't apply to you.

If you have had/are having relations with a man then this question would apply to you.

:love:
Wickanne

Cheyenne Skye

08-21-2007, 02:04 PM

Let me start out by saying I have only been with (2) women in my life. My wife has confessed that she once had a relationship with another woman and considers herself bisexual. I suppose I should classify myself as bi-curious. However the only "male" that interests me would be an attractive "she-male" that to all outwards appearances is a woman and you would only know the difference once undressed. This applies whether I'm dressed or not. So I am definitely attracted to the more feminine aspects of people.

RobertaFermina

08-21-2007, 02:04 PM

illusion of heterosexual experience for me ?
YES, I feel the illusion among women and other CD'ers.
Haven't crossed into sex as a CD'er. Can't speak from there yet.

being dressed set me up to believe sex with a male is heterosexual?.....YES! though only a possibility. After all, there are times when my femal partner was so 'masculine' in her energy I felt like the 'receiver.'

Whatever I believe about a sexual liaison BEFORE it happens has nothing to do with the actual event.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

Veronica Fallon

08-21-2007, 02:09 PM

Hmmm... this seems to be a complicated issue throughout the entire realm of transgenderism. Even the professionals don't always agree.

I myself am really only attracted to females, meaning I'm not drawn to the appearance of males. However, I can very thoroughly enjoy sex with the right guy too. The only guys I find acceptable are slim/slender, smooth-skinned, soft-featured, & humble-natured. In "guy-mode" I prefer a male partner to be rather feminine in stature & appearance. As Veronica, I can accept a man with the above qualities, but either built slightly (like a woman) or also built buff (like a medium body-building man). My ideal for sex with a male is another very feminine T-girl, with substantial "maleness" where it counts!:drooling:

I guess that makes me a: Primarily hetro-sexual, trans-gendered, sexually submissive (I like BDSM too), totally bisexual, human mammal, who likes pizza, beer, adventure & sensuality!

Call me whatever ya want, as long as you end with a compliment about my femininity!!:D

Hugz,

Veronica

P.S.- After reading your added post, I'd like to add that my own personal view on the subject is that the labels of "hetro" VS. "bi" are established by biological gender, as opposed to gender-identity. If your partner has the same "panty-prizes" as you, it's a bisexual experience... period! Justifying it otherwise may make it easier to swallow (pun intended) but doesn't change the primary definition. Just MHO....

BobbiC

08-21-2007, 02:10 PM

I remember reading once that part of the problem with a lot of surveys regarding sexuality was with labeling "men who have sexual encounters with men" as "homosexual". There would be lots of GM's who have had one or two sexual encounters with men but who would never consider themselves "homosexual".

I suspect that among CD'ers just like across the general population there is a range of orientation. But as I was reading the original post, I couldn't help but start thinking about some of the language:

Of the eleven CDs I have met not one was truly heterosexual in the traditional sense. Some had homosexual experiences, some fantasized about having homosexual experiences, and a couple of them had homosexual experiences and continue to fantasize about homosexual experiences, but all of them claimed it was only while enfemme.

If a GM "fantasizes about having homosexual experiences" or perhaps has even had one or two ("in college", say) -- does that make them no longer "truly heterosexual"? I suspect they wouldn't be a 0 on the old Kinsey scale (0 = "exclusively hetero") but I don't know that it shifts them that far down.

I think there's a tendency for people to assume that any GM who has (or fantasizes about) sexual encounters with a man is "gay". I think we're a lot more complicated animals than that and that there's a whole range of "gayness".

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 02:33 PM

Roberta

Thank-you, you have given me an answer that applies to the question. I realize it is your comment and does not apply to CDs in general :-)

If a GM "fantasizes about having homosexual experiences" or perhaps has even had one or two ("in college", say) -- does that make them no longer "truly heterosexual"? I suspect they wouldn't be a 0 on the old Kinsey scale (0 = "exclusively hetero") but I don't know that it shifts them that far down.

Alfred Kinsey...I am not going to dis the man, but it is only one man's opinion. Since the question isn't about his opinion, or my opinion, I'll refrain from further comment.

My question isn't about being gay nor is it about being bi-sexual.

:love:
Wickanne

Robin Leigh

08-21-2007, 02:56 PM

I think it's fair to suggest that most CD/TG people are inclined to have more questions about their own sexuality than is usual. My advice has always been, if you are bi-curious, satisfy your curiosity by all means, but please don't do it while in a committed, closed relationship!

I explored my sexuality in my late teens & early 20s. I've always preferred female partners, but I've had plenty of male ones as well. I had fun with men, but I never wanted a serious relationship with a man. I just didn't get the deep connection & fulfilment that you want with a life partner. In these 'experimental' days, I was either single, or in an open relationship.

(Have I ever been unfaithful. Yes. I slept with a new gf before I had officially split up with the old. I didn't feel too guilty about it, though. I was leaving her because I was sick of her getting drunk & sleeping around.)

I've been celibate for the last few years, but I'd say I'm primarily hetero, although I don't totally rule out that I could get intimate with another GM, if the circumstances were right. Unlikely, but not impossible. :D

When I've been with men, it does bring out certain feminine energies in me, but overall the experience doesn't make me feel like a hetero female, it makes me feel like a gay male. I prefer to feel like a straight male, or a gay female. :D And I need female company for that.

Now very few of my male lovers knew of my CDing tendencies. Almost none of the gay ones did. Mostly, I didn't think they'd be comfortable with it or attracted to me as a CD. Some of the bi ones did, and I even had some interactions with me wearing lingerie. I won't deny it was fun, but it didn't make me feel more girly to be with a man, en femme or not.

I hope this was of interest to someone. :)

:hugs:

Robin

kassandra richard

08-21-2007, 03:14 PM

If I can quote the incomparable Eddie Izzard -- I'm a male lesbian :) En drab I'm attracted to women -- thus an encounter is going to be heterosexual. En femme, I'm attracted to women, theoretically making the encounter homosexual (if you want to cross labels all over the place). But since I don't really identify myself as a woman, even when en femme, if I were attracted to a guy it would still be a homosexual event.

I think Wickanne that you're not liable to get a "straight" answer on this in so far as each of us is perceiving this facet of our existence differently. I know enough of my own thoughts and history to know that, given a different head and spiritual space, I'd probably be bisexual. Had that occurred, I suspect that the answer to your question would be a qualified maybe.

Kassandra

RobertaFermina

08-21-2007, 03:33 PM

I will add that, while I have not jumped into bed with a man yet, I have danced with a few.

On one occasion, I let go entirely and was LED by him...I mean I REALLY LET GO and moved according to his will and imagination. I did not think about how he was touching my body to give cues and directions, except to notice how his hands felt and what I saw IN his eyes.

This is all so romantic in my memories, and the release of control, and the sense of being protected and guided across the floor, and desired and, to some degree, worshipped remains real and desirable to me.

It is unsettling to me, as a man, because this degree of connection and flexibility is the same as I experience in a positive sexual encounter. Dancing is Sex....metaphorically, and to the extent I experienced it, emotionally.

It felt heterosexual. I was relating in a complementary way to the man, feeling feminine in my role and in the new colors of my emotional experience.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 03:44 PM

Roberta

I am impressed with your openess and I thank you for that. I do understand what you are saying to me :-)

The whole point of a forum is to get different opinions...to allow someone with an open-mind to be educated and understand something that is not easily understood from a mere hushed conversation. It really boils down to you either feel like an interaction with another man, while enfemme, is either heterosexual or homosexual...ohhhh, if it was only that simple ;-)

:love:
Wickanne

Fab Karen

08-21-2007, 03:46 PM

AmandaM

08-21-2007, 03:50 PM

I tried to discuss this idea recently but no one wanted to play out the discussion of gay, bi, and possibly something different in CD'ers and TS'es.
I do not believe I am bi. I believe that I have two halves inside me, male and female. So, I would say yes, it would be a hetero experience for me mentally.

Sounds like the question you're really asking is, does being a CD cause gay feelings? The answer is no. Sexuality is there regardless of ever starting to CD. Some people use CD'ing as an "excuse" to explore what they've been afraid to in male mode. If you went out & talked to a bunch of gay men, you'd hear them tell you that a lot of them went through a period of denial.

How can you deny that there may be more going on in the CD'er than just gay or bi? Maybe they are sexually female when dressed.

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 03:54 PM

Sounds like the question you're really asking is, does being a CD cause gay feelings? The answer is no. Sexuality is there regardless of ever starting to CD. Some people use CD'ing as an "excuse" to explore what they've been afraid to in male mode. If you went out & talked to a bunch of gay men, you'd hear them tell you that a lot of them went through a period of denial.

No, that is not what I am asking, nor am I implying it. CDing doesn't "cause" gay feelings. To my knowledge nothing "causes" gay feelings..the root of "gay feelings" is biology.

:love:
Wickanne

Alice B

08-21-2007, 03:56 PM

Have never had a homosexual experience and do not think about it when dressed. I do think about having sex with a woman that is open to my dressing. Of course I love my wife and would never cheat on her, but I can not dress in front of her, thus can only have dreams. This is strange because once, before we got married she allowed me to dress in panties and nylons and she did my make up. We then make love like rabbits, but I think this relates to the newness of our relationship, the sexual attraction that goes with it and the fact that we were 17 years younger than we are today. But, hope springs eternal.:hugs:

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 04:08 PM

...I do think about having sex with a woman that is open to my dressing...

That actually opens up something I never thought about before. I am sure there must be a thread about it on the site already, but I'll go for the quick answer.

I assumed that when a man is making love to a woman while he is enfemme he would feel very 'male'. So I'll flip my question for you. Do you think you would feel femme or masculine in that situation? If you felt femme, would you see it as a lesbian or a heterosexual encounter?

:love:
Wickanne

Alex!

08-21-2007, 04:25 PM

Yup. I'm straight. Very straight, to be sure. In fact, I dislike when women see me en femme because I prefer to be in male mode around them. In a sense, corssdressing is a form of costume-wearing, with clothes and makeup selected because it makes me feel relaxed and, somehow, less reserved. I think I am much more pleasant to be around when en femme.

Fab Karen

08-21-2007, 05:01 PM

Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience?

:love:
Wickanne
Believe? No. I can fantasize, but I don't literally believe it. That would make me a schizophrenic.

SatinDoll00

08-21-2007, 06:06 PM

It really boils down to you either feel like an interaction with another man, while enfemme, is either heterosexual or homosexual...ohhhh, if it was only that simple ;-)

For me, when I was younger and did have experiences a man, TO ME it was as hetrosexual as anything else...because in my mind, at that moment, I was female.

Now, of course that does not mean that society would see it that way.

By definition, sexual contact between two persons of the same genetic sex is homosexuality.

I do not dispute this.

However, to call someone that has had a sexual experience with a person of the same sex, a Homosexual, is not correct.

A Homosexual is someone that prefers to have sexual experiences with persons of the same sex.

A Bisexual is someone that prefers to have sexual experiences with either persons of the same or the opposite sex.

A Heterosexual is someone that preferes to have sexual experiences with persons of the opposite sex.

Does that mean that if someone has a sexual experience with someone of the same sex that they are a Homosexual...no. It does not mean they aren't either. It just means that they explored their own sexuality.

For TG persons, the line gets blurry...because if you see yourself as the opposite sex than your genetic sex, then from your point of view, you are that sex.

For example...

If a FtM TG (pre op) person has a sexual experience with a genetic female, technically, that person has had a homosexual experience. But from the perspective of that person, she was playing the role of male.

Now, of course this is not always the case, but I think that in many cases, mine included...when a TG person has sex with a person of the same sex, it is, at least to that person...a hetrosexual act.

I hope that helps to answer the original question.

Morgan

DonnaT

08-21-2007, 06:08 PM

There has only been one person I've ever been sexually attracted to, ever. That's my wife. Married 32 years today.

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 07:04 PM

For me, when I was younger and did have experiences a man, TO ME it was as hetrosexual as anything else...because in my mind, at that moment, I was female.

For example...

If a FtM TG (pre op) person has a sexual experience with a genetic female, technically, that person has had a homosexual experience. But from the perspective of that person, she was playing the role of male.

Now, of course this is not always the case, but I think that in many cases, mine included...when a TG person has sex with a person of the same sex, it is, at least to that person...a hetrosexual act.

I hope that helps to answer the original question.

Morgan

Yes Morgan, it does answer my question. For you, this is your experience. Thank you.

:love:
Wickanne

There has only been one person I've ever been sexually attracted to, ever. That's my wife. Married 32 years today.

Congratulations! That is an accomplishment to be very proud of. I wish you many more years to-gether.

:love:
Wickanne

"Use the multi-quote button of the EDIT button to add content."

Where do I learn how to do that?

Wickanne

kassandra richard

08-21-2007, 07:24 PM

BarbaraTalbot

08-21-2007, 07:45 PM

If men do nothing for you then this question wouldn't apply to you.

Since when does whether a question applies to us become a criterion as to whether we will loudly chime in.??!!

Good question, well worded though. I have wondered similar things, and find it hard to ask what you did without bruising toes.

Oh and doesn't apply to me IS my answer! :tongueout

Chantelle CD

08-21-2007, 08:01 PM

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience?

When i am dressed i feel i am a woman 100% All my movements, feelings, reflect this. So yes, i do fantasize about being with a man at times i become aroused while dressed, though it is not very often, mostly times i am feeling very sexy and pretty, i dont tend to dress that part very much, most of my dressing is to just be one of the girls. But i can say that, me as myself, am totally heterosexual, In fact this is where a lot of my inner battles with this in myself come from. Will i ever have an experaince with a man as chantelle? i dont think so. Why? Decause in order to do this, i would have to strip down and expose my male self, and i would lose it all, that fast. Though just maybe, with the right kind of man, i could be oral, without disrobing, cuddle and kiss, typing this now, as myself now though, i think nooooo way!!! But when i flick that switch, and i let her out full force, i think that can happen maybe. My male side would jump to the surface if i exposed myself, and would run for the door!!! not to say there is anything wrong with being gay, i have a few friends that are, and there the greatest non judgmental people i know!! Chantelle knows there is a fine line here, and wont cross it without conditions, but...both of us would be open to roll playing with a female. BTW those that know me, my SO had left me, not because of my CD'ing, she was always open to this part of me, she has some issues she is trying to deal with, on top of having a chemical imballance and fighting depression, and relationships. I wont bore you all with this story, not even in a seperate thread, but i am having a hard time, most likely if not for chantelle, this would be a lot harder on me. but yes to answer your question, its possable, yes i do sound sort of split personalityish, even though they are both me, they are so totaly different in a lot of ways, and the more i let her come out more and more, her personality is becoming whole faster than i can believe, and its scary, and amazingly rewarding for me.

Rosaliy Lynne

08-21-2007, 08:36 PM

There has only been one person I've ever been sexually attracted to, ever. That's my wife. Married 32 years today.

A hearty tip o' the glass to you Donna :drink: We just celebrated my parents' 41st and my wife and I are half a year into our 15th. Congratulations and here's to many more.

Kassandra

My sincere congratulations and best wishes to you both!!!!!!

Now to give some answer to the question: I used to think of myself as str8 but have come to realize that I am at least bi or bi curious. I have had some experiences with men although I remain primarily attracted to women AND the very lovely women some of us become when we come out en femme.

Do I feel I am in a hetero relationship with a man when I am en femme - I am not sure that question is relevant to me - but I don't think so.

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 09:15 PM

I do want to thank all of you for you candid replies. It does help me understand issues that really hadn't crossed my mind until recently.

:love:
Wickanne

camera_laura

08-21-2007, 09:50 PM

Sorry to be so late to *this* party :rolleyes:.

From reading the responses, it would appear that the gamut has been covered. But that won't stop me from adding my :2c:

I was married for 24 years
I never had the desier to be with a man.
No one that knows me (even casually) would ever think I was anything other than heterosexual.
No one would *ever* guess my little CD secret.

Sounds to me as if you just had a run of bad luck. Don't give up. :tongueout

raleighbelle

08-21-2007, 09:58 PM

I will try to answer your questions at least from my own point of view. But I think it is different for everyone.

First of all, there are lots of labels and conditions to those labels, and to me they are not all that important, I am what I am. It is up to someone else to create the labels. But kind of like 'the eastern most point on Earth' those labels are rather artificial and arbitrary.

As a background, I am not married and never have been. Haven't even really been in a truly serious relationship. So the idea of infidelity and honesty with a SO is not valid here. I have never had ANY kind of sexual relationship with a man, not even hugging, kissing, dancing, or whatever. All of my sexual experiences with women have been with me totally as a male, and I believe the women never suspected my cross-dressing in any way.

As a male, in my male form, I have no desire in other men what-so-ever, and do not find them attractive. I don't even really want to hang around them as I do not enjoy their company as a male, even in the way other males do.

But when I cross-dress, I see myself as a female, and fantasize as a female. In that case, I do desire a man, and fantasize a lot about an experience with a man. In such a situation, I am totally female, take on only the female role, and have only a female type relationship with that man. In fact, in the fantasies, I have female anatomy (why not - it is a fantasy afterall). So to me, in my mind, I am having a heterosexual fantasy for the female that I consider myself to be in that situation. Despite that, I know that many people reading this would say there are no two ways about it, I am a male, regardless of the fantasy, and so it would be clearly just being flamboyantly gay. They can label it as they please.

I would love to have sex or intimate relations with a female when I am dressed. Although I would have a built-in attached 'boy toy' - to me I would be a woman having that relationship with another woman, so to me personally, it would be a lesbian experience. (technically to others though, it would be considered a hetrosexual cross-dressing experience, but to me it would be a lesbian experience). That is just the way I would see it.

I certainly hope to sometime get to experience that with another woman when I am dressed and playing that role. I fantasize about the experience with a man when I am dressed, but I suspect in real life it would be very different and I probably would not find myself attracted and would back out of it, though I would love to give it a try in what I felt was a 'right situation'. But it is a very nice fantasy for my feminine side none-the-less.

I hope I have answered your question from my perspective. I think you will get a lot of different opinions on this, probably as many as there are people on this site.

celtic.blue.eyes

08-21-2007, 10:01 PM

camera_laura

08-21-2007, 10:12 PM

raleighbelle

08-21-2007, 10:32 PM

I suppose all of this can lead to another question.... How many M2F CD's that have sex with other men crossdress so they can be "female"? This way they can avoid perceiving themselves as gay, and call themselves hetero. I'm not making any accusations, it's just a question.

I definitely do not dress so I could justify having sex with a man. If I ever did have sex as a man, it would be one small, but important, part of the female experience. Studies say that the vast majority of cross dressers are totally heterosexual, but I think for me it is a gender disorientation or transexual situation. I definitely do not fit the majority, but I am not trying to 'fit in' anywhere. I am what I was made into, and I know what I feel but cannot be, but am tired of repressing it. I think my cross dressing is much more than just liking the feel and look of womens clothes and fabric. I suspect the answers to this question will be much different for most of the other postings.

Wickanne GG

08-21-2007, 10:39 PM

I think my thread just got hi-jacked...lol

Here's a reminder of what this thread is about:

Seems the background information may be interfering with the actual question. Let's try just the question:

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience? I am not certain which of those questions would be clearer for your understanding of what I am trying to ask.

If men do nothing for you then this question wouldn't apply to you.

If you have had/are having relations with a man then this question would apply to you.

:love:
Wickanne

Michelle (Oz)

08-21-2007, 10:41 PM

My views echo many others. Heterosexual.

What perhaps is different for me to some though is when I'm out en femme. I find I relate well to females and have developed some friendships beyond what I would ever have done dressed as a male. The type of relationship is more female to female. There is absolutely no sexual interest or overtone. That would change the type of relationship.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that forming friendships when en femme give insights to a person that would not be given when en homme and it would be dishonest to abuse the basis of the friendship.

Michelle (Oz)

Satrana

08-21-2007, 11:03 PM

If a man was actually gay or bisexual then he would be attracted to men whether he was in drab or in enfemme so clearly most CDs are telling the truth when they say they are heterosexual.

However, many CDs have developed a habit of treating crossdressing as fantasy play. This is an unfortunate side effect of spending a lifetime in the closet. It becomes important in their fantasy to believe that temporarily they have become a real woman, as if a magic pill had been taken that had transformed them. This is why fully emulating a woman with breast forms, wigs etc is essential to fulfill the fantasy, a man in a dress simply would not do.

The strongest fantasies we humans have are those concerning romance/sex so it becomes routine for CDs to fantasize about what it would be like to be treated as a woman by a courting man. Repeatedly having such dreams breaks down our conditioned rejection of homosexuality leaving many bi-curious.

Usually our bi-curiosity is only triggered when we walk through the looking glass into our fantasy female world. Some though decide to live out their fantasies and when in that zone, they would treat their experiences as a heterosexual experience. Whether that is actually possible would be dependent on the circumstances ie whether the other man plays along with the fantasy etc.

One important point to remember in all of this is that there is no such thing as a 100% heterosexual individual; everyone is bi-sexual to one degree or another. Crossdressing fantasies are likely to bring out buried bi-sexuality that exists in everyone, but most CDs are content to keep such feelings only within the realm of fantasy.

In summary, most CDs are normal heterosexual men (obviously this does not include those who are in fact gay or bi) except that crossdressing fantasies often makes us bi-curious, and some then act out these dreams by having what they feel to be a heterosexual experience with a man.

Deidra Cowen

08-21-2007, 11:05 PM

I am bi, have dated both GGs and Men as a Tgirl. My motivations, inner thoughts and emotional state in regards to relationships & sexual orientation are none of your buisness.

I'm kewl with straight people but don't freaking put them on the spot with these kind of questions about their sexual orientation.

raleighbelle

08-21-2007, 11:28 PM

[QUOTE=Wickanne GG;978499]I think my thread just got hi-jacked...lol

Here's a reminder of what this thread is about:

Seems the background information may be interfering with the actual question. Let's try just the question: .....

Your comment appears to have been directed to me, and I apologize, because I honestly thought I was answering your question as directly as I could. Don't know how else I could answer it.

TxKimberly

08-21-2007, 11:53 PM

I'm sure one of the things your going to find out first is that your going to get a lot of different answers. One answer is not going to fit all of us. Like Karen Hutton, I have been happily and faithfully married for a long time - 20 years. I have no interest in men under any circumstance. No disrespect to anyone here that does prefer them, but the thought of a guy touching me anywhere pretty much gives me the creeps.
Another thing - as I've said on other posts, I never did get the "I act/feel one way" while dressed, and "I act / feel another way when drab" thing. Drab or dressed, I am the same person. My view of the world does not change based on my appearance - I just enjoy being in it more as a female. :-)

After reading your repeated hints that your core question is not being answered I thought I would make it crystal clear:

Does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience?
No. Being emfemme does not give me any illusions that being with a man would be a heterosexual experience, nor does it give me any desire to explore the option.

Just to cloud the issue just a touch farther I noted someone commented on the desire to be with a woman while emfemme. This idea I find quite attractive! :-)

ta2

08-21-2007, 11:59 PM

I always thought gay was you like male / male things in mans clothes
and all macho Also wanting to live with date or marrie a man dressed as a man
so no this aint me

Bi I guess means genetic male who has or wants to have sex date?
(do bi people date bothe sexes) If so then thets not me I dont want to date no guy all tring to boss me around and be the leader.However if Bi is just sexual then OK I guess I could be called bi as I have and I will agen and I think about it daly Howevr I think of women more and of men with me as a woman and The only reson I have any fantasy to be "man handled" Is I want to know more about how a girl feels and the fantasy is wow I would be just like a girl kind a climax to being a girl the ultimate girl act to submit to a man
or please them in a womanly way I have had "gay" sex more thane once However It was planed caried out (at remot public "gay" places) as girl reserch and for future fantasy of you know "what a girly thing I did" and "what a dirty girl I was". In my mind I was a school girl who lost her way on a wooded shortcut home.I had a bra halter top , panties and fishnet on under jeans and a baggy guy shirt. So not realy trind to be gay
And every time and the reson I stoped was all the guyes keep tring to get "gay" with me and I had to choke down alot of unplesent fellings to do "what i wanted" as the place was reather unpleasent for me so I dont think Im gay
And it is alway just the act with a man Ther is always a real or CD girl ther in my fantasies and the eye contact the touching the talk is all with here It is her I want to conect and share with He is realy just guy x (needed item) I would say Im obsesed with one part(maby 3) of the male body not men

I also enjoy being a man to a woman and only think of romantic beaches dinner out and permanent relationship with a woman or full time TS
I never have wanted to curl up on a couch with a hairy man and watch a movie And I love sending girls flowers talking on the phone and again never with a man just not my thing

As far as domanent woman Yes please (no mistress Princes style ) and
only as a reward for 4 x as a slave cuz Im the man

Also The bigest thing going back to the grade school play ground
I played with the girls mostly becouse boys were mean , dumb , ugly , rude
and just not who I wanted to be around , In highschool I would pursue girls more agresive then most boys becouse i was atrected to them I admit I asked about ther under clothes out of clothes curiosity But went from ther on pure boy instinct so gay I dont think so

So all I can say is if your a republican or hard core christianthen YES I AM GAY AS HELL!!AND GOING THER IN PAINTIES AND HEALS BABY!

If you are curiose as how I see myself after years of thought and confusion
Im a boy who likes panties,glitter ,oil ,dirt ,wrenches,bowes,ribbons,adventure ,romance and being a girl but still a boy who wants to fall in love with a girl (and play dress forever after)

as long as Im writing a book (remember 20 years with not talking about this exept to end relationships you think more girls would see it as a +)
I read about a witch/princess from 1300' Romania in middle school and somehowe by reading about her with so much exitment I gave her the power to brake through to the living and posses my body so how could I be gay when it is a 700 year old princess/witch not me controling my body
I know total B.S However it is fun and realy helped me get over the worlds B.S when thay say hey your gay and thats wrong. I say love to listen but a spirt has controle of my body and is about to make me go internet shop for sparkly jewelry

One last reason for not gay I have lived alone for 9 years (since my divorce)and never have i had one gay party and I could have had one any time I wanted
And when I was married my wife ignored my crossdressing with a chuckle and once in awhile joined in Now here is the kicker She loved gay porn real hairy macho body builder stuff
she had to watch at lowe volume and i would sit facing away from the tv becose just a glimps would instantly kill my horny She wanted me to be gay live for her with a guy However i told here I would need to dress up and be fem then I would love to She said "NO THATS OK THAT WOULD BE TO GAY" So we never did it
So you think if crossdressing made you gay a guy with all the chances I have had to be gay would have gayed it up by now I mean Hell I live in chicago
a 10 munite train ride from boys town

If you read all that wow and thanks for bieng a friend

AmberTG

08-22-2007, 12:01 AM

My answer may be a bit different then most. I consider myself to be bisexual, with most of my tendencies going toward women. However, I do find myself attracted to certain men, although there is no "type" that I'm attracted to, it just randomly happens, although not all that often. I have always had this fantasy about having sex with a man as a woman, quite difficult with my current anatomy!
I've only had 1 actual sexual relationship with another man, and that happened when I was 16 and went on for about 6-8 months before peer pressure got to me. He definitely took the "male" role and I was the "female" in the relationship. I did then, and still consider that to have been a homosexual relationship. I base that on anatomy, not mindset. That's just the way I am.
I can be dominant or submissive in a relationship with a woman, but, for me, how I label it is always based on anatomy. My cursed logical mind at work.
Hopefully, my answer makes some sense in light of your question.

KewTnCurvy GG

08-22-2007, 12:12 AM

I have been around A LOT of transgendered folks.

I think Wickanne GG's question is a thoughtful and honest question.

That said, I'm always surprised by the vitriolic responses of some folks shocking and uncalled for.

The banner says "...a Community for Crossdressers, their family and friends."

So, why can't a GG ask an honest question? What is the problem with that?

So many of you claim to want the support of GG's, their understanding and their attention but if one dares ask an honest, thought provoking question you retaliate.

I don't understand.

And though I consider myself predominantly hetero with bi tendancies I too recoil at the "ewwww" and "icks" of those who talk of their bi-ness or gay-ness. Like hetero is the "right way" and anything else is to be detested.

Shame on you, those without open minds and open hearts; how dare you ask for the understanding of others!

Kew

Angie G

08-22-2007, 12:48 AM

I love to dress I've never been with a man nor do I wish to bee with one if others do that fine I just don't go there :hugs:
Angie

Wickanne GG

08-22-2007, 01:23 AM

There is an amazing phenomenon in this part of the world…it’s called, Free Will. Those who choose to answer will; they obviously see the value of enlightening people. Those who choose not to answer have their reasons. Those who choose to tell me it is none of my business…well...they just wasted their time. No one is forcing anyone to answer my question.

I will thank those of you who recently posted. I appreciate you taking the time to enlighten me. Since I am involved with CDs it is my business to have a basic understanding of the issues he wants to discuss with me…anything from breast forms to being bi-curious to wigs. As an individual, he reserves the right to make adjustments to my understanding of the issue.

If you are curiose as how I see myself after years of thought and confusion
Im a boy who likes panties,glitter ,oil ,dirt ,wrenches,bowes,ribbons,adventure ,romance and being a girl but still a boy who wants to fall in love with a girl (and play dress forever after)

If you read all that wow and thanks for bieng a friend

I am just curious :-) because of a recent situation and that curiosity fuels a need to understand various situations.

I stated in one of my earlier posts that I do not believe crossdressing "causes" gay feels.....

Yes, I did read all of your post :-)

:love:
Wickanne

SatinDoll00

08-22-2007, 09:19 AM

I stated in one of my earlier posts that I do not believe crossdressing "causes" gay feels.....

I agree. I do believe that in some, the same thing that causes the urge to crossdress also causes the urge to explore sexuality.

I have never met or talked to anyone that 'turned gay' because they were a crossdresser.

Now I am not saying that has never happened. I have not met or talked to every single crossdresser and gay person in the world, so I know for a fact that I cannot make that generalization.

For what it is worth...I do not think there was anything wrong with your question. I did my best to answer it to the best of my ablility without too much outside info.

Morgan

PortiaHoney

08-22-2007, 10:17 AM

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience? I am not certain which of those questions would be clearer for your understanding of what I am trying to ask.

Who is trying to kid who? I have had one attempt at a relationship with a guy, who was femme gay. He was very understanding and understood better than I that my curiosity at having a relationship with him had more to do with what I thought should be than what was actually going on. Turns out he knew I was straight but had to let me find out for myself. I still have a soft spot in my heart for him, but sex??? Still I was curious - does that make me gay? Even though I was in a very femme period at that time, at no point did I consider that a relationship with a guy in femme mode would make me think it was a heterosexual experience. I was attracted to him for his femme qualities, I have never been attracted to guys because of "other" qualities.

However, if I were to TG then would that then make my relationship with a male hetero according to your parameters???? To me, for me to have a heterosexual relationship with a male would only happen should I make the transition and live FTG. CD does not change my gender - just appearance of gender fitting in with the picture in my head.

It's an individual thing and your small survey has 2 many restrictions. Some would like to justify that being enfemme makes it a hetero experience but I think that has more to do with labels than mindset.

You may fantasize about being the female partner, you may role play the female role, you may believe that you are with another guy in a hetero experience, but the second you acknowledge that you have the same equipment - guess what.....

It may be the group you are conversing with is just that, a group with similar experiences and justifications, so you will get similar answers.

Thank you for being open with your question but I find it strange that you leave it up to him to adjust your understanding of these issues just after you mentioned Free Will?????????? Please don't get the wrong impression from my reply, I admire you for seeking further information and keeping an open mind - I just hate labels......

Marcie Sexton

08-22-2007, 10:50 AM

I'm with karren...I've spent 20 + years with my wife, who is totally supportive and wouldn't trade her for all the tea in china...

I have yet to see any one who could/would make me stray...unless linda carter ask...lol:heehee:like that is going to happen too...

Just ain't happening...Just mark me 110% heteralsexual...

Zee

08-22-2007, 10:53 AM

This question is like saying that "Pot" is a gateway drug.

For some, it may be, for the majority, it isn't.

Same applies here. It really depends on your disposition.

MsJanessa

08-22-2007, 10:55 AM

As most of those who have read My posts know I'm bisexual---attracted to pretty women and T-girls(ok I guess that's inbetween) and to a lesser extent to men----but it seems like a waste of time and effort worrying about "Am I gay, straight, or bi" What difference does it make?---youre attracted to whatever and whoever youre attracted to----obsessing about it is really an indication of homophobia and as long as the objects of your affection are consenting adults then it's ok with Me and should be ok with everyone else.

AmandaM

08-22-2007, 11:06 AM

I still contend that a MTF TS does not have gay sex, even before SRS. She has sex as a woman. Since that is what she is. CDers can be gay. A CDer with TS tendecies may be gay,bi or just female in sexuality. The classic definition of gay and bi supported by many on this board only takes into account which body you are born with. I think this is highly insulting. It's as controlling as those who say TS's were born men, so they have to stay that way. I can find no reason to say I have bi-tendencies other than I have a male body. In no definition of bi that exists, do I identify with that definition. But, if you want to stay in the middle ages, go ahead. Forcing those with TS tendencies to be called gay and bi only serves the gay agenda.

Ha! There, I said it. I'm done now. You can attack me if you want, but this is my belief. :tongueout

Mary Morgan

08-22-2007, 11:20 AM

I'm probably off the mark here, but I need to comment on these questions. What I read, hear, see, and feel about crossdressing is that for whatever reason, most of us enjoy it, find it comforting, relaxing, exciting, even right. That being said, it seems to me that it would follow that a crossdresser might well enjoy sex or anything else more while en femme. As for me, I would love to make love to my wife while dressed, but that isn't going to happen. She is the one who is hung up on what that would be called, not me. I understand her feelings even if I don't understand my own.

Wickanne GG

08-22-2007, 12:44 PM

It seems the longer a thread gets and floats away from the original question the more people are drifting into making/thinking this thread is about sexual preference. It has nothing to do with asking if you are straight, bi, bi-curious, or gay. It has to do with perception.

I have received replies that address what the thread asks. You have no idea how those replies are so greatly appreciated.

It's an individual thing and your small survey has 2 many restrictions. Some would like to justify that being enfemme makes it a hetero experience but I think that has more to do with labels than mindset.

It’s not a survey, it’s a question. Yes, it has restriction because I am not here asking about someone’s sexual orientation. I am not asking what someone had for breakfast. I am asking how someone enfemme sees them self with-in an encounter with another male.

Let's face it, labels are there for a reason. They explain a definition in a word or two. EXAMPLE: If use the term, "homosexuality" and you know what it means without me writing a half a page to explain it. If you don't like the "label" then come up with another word, use it, make it mainstream, and then submit it to Webster's Dictionary, but then it becomes a "label" for someone else to dislike. I understand that “labels” generalize and that is the intent, but until you can come up with something better they will always be apart of everyday life.

You may fantasize about being the female partner, you may role play the female role, you may believe that you are with another guy in a hetero experience, but the second you acknowledge that you have the same equipment - guess what.....

But isn’t that what fantasy is about…the mindset…the illusion…it’s what one wants to believe in that moment.

It may be the group you are conversing with is just that, a group with similar experiences and justifications, so you will get similar answers.

I am also smart enough not to believe the words of a few people, which is what brings this question to this forum. I am certain if I took this question to a forum of physiologist I would get completely different responses. I live by the adage - if you want to know the facts then go to the horse’s mouth, not the horse’s a$$.

Thank you for being open with your question but I find it strange that you leave it up to him to adjust your understanding of these issues just after you mentioned Free Will?????????? Please don't get the wrong impression from my reply, I admire you for seeking further information and keeping an open mind - I just hate labels......

That is Free Will…I can choose to believe that what is being said here applies to everyone in general (no one can force me to believe what is being said here applies, verbatim, to everyone) or I can be open-minded and understand that the experience may be slightly different for everyone. He has the right to add his ‘spin’ on my basic understanding, without expecting me to say, That cannot be right, that's not what they said in the forum.

I didn’t get the wrong impression from your reply…it’s simply your opinion.

:love:
Wickanne

OP Louise Morgan “….As for me, I would love to make love to my wife while dressed, but that isn't going to happen. She is the one who is hung up on what that would be called, not me….”
I would think there is a thread about this already. If someone knows where it is please send me a private message and let me know. I am not making this thread about that issue, but I will post an honest reply of what it was like for me. Keep in mind it is only the experience of one GG with one CD ;-)

battybattybats

08-23-2007, 01:49 AM

If Kinsey, and a lot of latter studies are accurate then most people are somewhat BI with totally heterosexual people being about as common as totally homosexual people and totally non-sexual people.

Making the claims of most 'straight' CDs here, and much more importantly the claims of most 'straight' non CD-ing men, subject to question.

Interesting. I so often find that the more one learns about reality the more different it is to the way it appears or is portrayed.

Sheila

08-23-2007, 09:31 AM

Heterosexuality is sexual or romantic attraction between opposite sexes, and is the most common sexual orientation among humans.
The adjective heterosexual is used for intimate relationships and/or sexual relations between male and female individuals, who may or may not identify themselves as straight. Heterosexuality, as an identifier, is usually contrasted with homosexuality and bisexuality.

Homosexuality can refer to both sexual behavior or attraction between people of the same sex, or to a sexual orientation. When describing the latter, it refers to enduring sexual and romantic attraction towards those of the same sex, but not necessarily to sexual behavior.[1] Homosexuality is contrasted with heterosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality.

so it would appear, regardless of the mindset when dressed ,sexual behavior or attraction betwen people of the same sex is construed as homesexuality, seems pretty clear to me but what would i know:love:

Wickanne GG

08-23-2007, 09:52 AM

[COLOR="Red"]
so it would appear, regardless of the mindset when dressed ,sexual behavior or attraction betwen people of the same sex is construed as homesexuality, seems pretty clear to me but what would i know:love:

With all due respect, this thread isn't about what you or I know nor is it about sexual orientation. It's about what I do not know/understand...but I am leaning. What I am learning is...Regardless, of what I, a heterosexual female, perceives about the union between a MF, MM, FF…I don’t think there is anything to be gleaned by seeing a CDs perception of it as any less valid than my own. By learning about this, by understand this I have come to understand what went wrong in my relationship.

:love:
Wickanne

Bonnie D

08-23-2007, 11:12 AM

Wichanne,

My gender therapist asked me in my first or second session if I would be interested in having a relationship with a heterosexual man. It threw me off kilter because I have been sayng that I want to have a relationship with a gay man who is interested in my dressing too. My reply was, "Yes, I would but I am physically male so how can that be?" He said that it doesn't matter how it can be, what is it I would want. I said, "Yes, I want to be with a heterosexual man."

I thought about the question for the next 2 weeks until my next appointment. I finally understood what he was asking, at least I think I do, and you seem to be asking the same thing. For me, not only when I am dressed but also when I am not and I am with a man I am mentally a woman. So in essence I am having heterosexual sex with the man even though it is physically gay sex. A bit confusing but in my mind it's not.

I have been calling myself a crossdresser for quite sometime only because it seemed to be an easier label to use. I am actually transsexual even though I will not be transitioning.

I hope this answers your question. I am open to further questions regarding this.

Bonnie

cajun

08-23-2007, 11:25 AM

Not for me. I have experimented with a homosexual experience and it did nothing for me. Let me mention something first, I am a submissive male that loves to, and be forced to CD. I have been forced to perform homosexual acts while being submissive and it doesn't bother me. But I have found out that I am heterosexual and have been faithful to my wife for almost 10 years.

If while serving my Mistress I was told to it would not freak me out or make me think I was gay or bi. I am very comfortable in my manhood. I just like to wear lingerie, heels and corsets and such. No big deal.

jo

Wickanne GG

08-23-2007, 01:06 PM

Wichanne,
I have been calling myself a crossdresser for quite sometime only because it seemed to be an easier label to use. I am actually transsexual even though I will not be transitioning.

I hope this answers your question. I am open to further questions regarding this.

Bonnie

Yes, I have been referred to as a "wich.." before. :D

You have hit it right on the answer I have been struggling to find, the answer that clears up a lot of this for me. I believe this is what has caused my confusion about CDing and if I am confused I am certain many more GGs are also.

I understood “CD” to be someone who wears clothes usually worn by somebody of the opposite sex

I understood “Transsexual” to be somebody who identifies himself or herself as a member of the opposite sex…GRS or not…which would fully explain to me why they would perceive an intimate encounter with man as being heterosexual.

What I am learning is that in-between someone who enjoys wearing clothing of the opposite sex for the pure pleasure of just wearing the clothing and someone who identifies as a member of the opposite sex, is a whole series of steps or degrees of CD.

When a “Transsexual” labels himself a “CD” it does cause a lot of confusion for GGs. I don’t know how one would get around the ‘degrees’ of it all. If I am interested in a CD, I really am only interested in a man who enjoys the female clothing part of it. I am not interested in someone who has sexual fantasies with a man and views it as a heterosexual experience because this, to me, is a “Transsexual”. You can put your own label [Mine is bi-sexual. Yes, labels are annoying to some but when used properly they make life a lot easier.] on a CD who wants to be with a woman, but also wants to be with a man and doesn’t view the encounter with a man as a heterosexual experience.

[I think am about to confuse myself some more here. Feel free to throw me a lifesaver. Speaking of lifesaver..
Two elderly ladies are sitting on the front porch, doing nothing.
One lady turns and asks, "Do you still get horny?"
The other replies, "Oh sure I do."
The first old lady asks, "What do you do about it?"
The second old lady replies, "I suck a lifesaver."
After a few moments, the first old lady asks, "Who drives you to the beach?"]

Having said what I did before I floated off topic, I am not against being with a CD who enjoys wearing female clothing and wants to explore situations where I am in a “dominant” role, but he has no interest in being with a man whether dressed or not dressed. How do I know where his head is? It is not as easy as saying communicate. I have read hundreds of posts about the difficulty of communication between a CD and a GG.

In my case, the communication with him was fairly good, but he failed to disclose some things to me early on. I know there were many reasons for his failure to communicate. I wouldn’t make excuses for him because we (him and I) both know what the main reasons were. All the grief and drama could have been avoid if he had been open and honest in the beginning...but then again, I would have missed out on all the positive aspects of who he is.

I have found my answers to my original thread question, but don’t let that stop you from continuing to enlighten me :-)

I thank all of you who stayed with the original question and helped me to understand. It helps in the healing process and reassures me that I wasn’t really going crazy afterall.

:love:
Wickanne

KimberlyS

08-23-2007, 01:58 PM

karynspanties

08-23-2007, 03:12 PM

I for one have never claimed to be hetro. In fact I am very bi-sexual. But the only time I am with a man is while I am enfemme. I have no interest of being with a man while in male mode. Never have and never will.

Sandygal

08-23-2007, 03:57 PM

Yes, that's the big problem. Being open and honest. To many times we have read posts where someone comes out to a SO and it bites them in the ass. Many of us love our wives more than life itself and hate the risk of telling them all that goes on in our minds. Thats why it is such a slow process to completly put everything on the table at once. We don't keep quiet to offend you, we keep quiet to hopefully not lose you.
To answer your actual question....If I'm dressed completly as a woman and I want to feel like a woman, would I consider myself homosexual if I wanted to be with a man? I don't know. I haven't been in that spot before. Personaly I would say no. But I would like to dress up and make love to my wife, would that make me or her a lesbian?
I really enjoy this thread, it makes me smile and think.
TaTa
Sandygal

Wickanne GG

08-23-2007, 04:03 PM

Wickanne, such a great question but it did take me several reads to understand exactly what you were looking for. First one question for you. Out of those 11 CDs you seem to be basing this question on, how many of them would you say were in a good state of personal acceptance of who they were as a person and a CD/TG versus still in a state of trying to define who they are? And if they were more TG\TS instead of CD, I believe you are mixing different data sources.

Since I never came right out and asked anyone that question I cannot honestly answer you. Based on their comments and their behaviours I would say two.

I ask this because in my journey of personal acceptance, depending on the year, month, day or even minute you asked the question you may have gotten a different answer. And this seems very true with many of the other CD/TGs I have chatted with about this. So if a TG is in the middle of a personal acceptance journey I do not feel you can consider their responses as a final answer but a current answer in their searching.

That thought did cross my mind while I was typing my previous reply, but I didn't feel qualified to include it. Even I can feel differently about different things from day-to-day and very differently depending on the time of the month.

I think some of this may also be a bit of ego thing with me right now, but I reserve the right to feel differently about it tomorrow ;-)
When s/he started getting into areas that, to me, were clearly homosexual in nature it frightened the crap out of me...for various reason, including the thought of him becoming fully accepting of himself (his past and his fantasies) and dumping me for a man. He is still on a road of discovery and is already beyond what I would call, based on my previous post, a Regular CD. Now some of you may jump all over that "label" but it's the only way I know how to express it right now. I didn't know how to deal with it, enlight of the fact he is still looking for "admirers" and other "GGs".

For me personally it does not matter how I am dressed, I am always a guy. Some times I just look more feminine than other times. So if for some reason I would have a relationship with a guy while dressed, it would be for me homosexual.

I know for other CDers they feel they are a woman when dressed, and even for the TG/TS's they tend to always feel they are a woman. So I am sure for them it may be a different answer.

I don't have an issue with a man feeling like a woman when he is dressed. I actually found that quite appealing about him. I do not have an issue with past homosexual exploration either. I do have an issue with a CD who wants to continue with homosexual fantasy and/or real homosexual encounters. It's just not for me and that may also be because I am fiercely monogamous...emotionally and physically.

I believe that this answers the question you are asking. If not PM me and I will try again.

KimberlyS-CD
joe in a skirt

:love:
Wickanne

...But I would like to dress up and make love to my wife, would that make me or her a lesbian?
I really enjoy this thread, it makes me smile and think.
TaTa
Sandygal

I have had a couple of discussions about this in private. Seems no one can remember there being a thread about it.
It may be a good idea for you to start a thread..hint, hint. I would be interesting to see the responses because most of the people on this site could have an opinion about it, unlike this thread which is limited to MTF CD.

Satrana

08-23-2007, 04:22 PM

With all due respect, this thread isn't about what you or I know nor is it about sexual orientation. It's about what I do not know/understand...but I am leaning. What I am learning is...Regardless, of what I, a heterosexual female, perceives about the union between a MF, MM, FF…I don’t think there is anything to be gleaned by seeing a CDs perception of it as any less valid than my own. By learning about this, by understand this I have come to understand what went wrong in my relationship.

Well I will take my hat off to you Wickanne, you are one of a very few who has been prepared to listen, understand and not pre-judge others.

And yes you are correct there is a huge spectrum of states inbetween simple crossdressing based solely on clothing to transgenderism and transexuality. Some people stay static on this continuum, but many will move along it over time. How far they travel is individualistic, no-one can tell, even the CD themselves. We spend a lifetime discovering what it all means, we never stop learning.

And the labels are very confusing especially more so when they are missing. A statement about transitioning from a TS who you assumed was a CD is going to give you all sorts of grief!

One mistake to avoid though is the assumption that because we have been this way usually since childhood, that this means we have had more than enough time to get it sorted out and used to the idea. Often that is not the case. Many CDs stumble from confusion to guilt to pain to disillusionment. A few days reading these forums will bring you as much enlightenment as many CDs have obtained over a lifetime of rumbling around in the darkness of the closet. Internet forums like this are usually the first opportunity CDs have to learn about themselves. It is quite likely your partner did not divulge certain information because he was unsure what it all meant himself.

A classic example is when a CD says "I want to be a woman". Actually they don't, but they are unable to convey what they really feel so resort to these simple statements which are misleading.

Annaliese

08-23-2007, 05:10 PM

Wickanne GG

08-23-2007, 05:22 PM

...You need to only look at the post "Have you ever been with a man". Over 11000 have look at this post and all most 200 have answered it.

So yes.

I did read the thread when it was in it's infancy. I didn't find what I was looking for so I started this thread and have been busy with it since. The good news is...I found some answers in this thread :D

:love:
Wickanne

goofus

08-23-2007, 10:45 PM

Of the eleven CDs I have met not one was truly heterosexual in the traditional sense.

I think that says a lot. If you want someone that's 'heterosexual in the traditional sense' it's probably best not to date a CD...

:2c:

Wickanne GG

08-23-2007, 11:00 PM

I think that says a lot. If you want someone that's 'heterosexual in the traditional sense' it's probably best not to date a CD...

:2c:

When I typed that, let's just say I was a very confused and unsure how to get across what I was trying to figure out. Sixty replies late...I am a lot less confused.

I have had many conversations over the past few days and there are men who do enjoy CD and have no desires to be with men in fantasy or real life. I don't know if YOU would still class them as a CD or not, but that's the label they use.

:love:
Wickanne

Susan Anne

08-23-2007, 11:58 PM

That actually opens up something I never thought about before. I am sure there must be a thread about it on the site already, but I'll go for the quick answer.

I assumed that when a man is making love to a woman while he is enfemme he would feel very 'male'. So I'll flip my question for you. Do you think you would feel femme or masculine in that situation? If you felt femme, would you see it as a lesbian or a heterosexual encounter?

:love:
Wickanne

I feel/act/talk/percieve like a woman when en femme. This would include typical female activities such as shopping, chatting, home decor and etc. but could also include sports or other so-called "man" stuff. However these all would be experienced by me from a female outlook and point of view. I am not attracted to men sexually and desire only women. Therefore in making love to a woman en femme I see it for myself as a lesbian experience since en femme I identify as lesbian. The lovemaking would take on a female to female flavor.

goofus

08-24-2007, 12:13 AM

When I typed that, let's just say I was a very confused and unsure how to get across what I was trying to figure out. Sixty replies late...I am a lot less confused.

I have had many conversations over the past few days and there are men who do enjoy CD and have no desires to be with men in fantasy or real life. I don't know if YOU would still class them as a CD or not, but that's the label they use.

:love:
Wickanne

Sure, I'd classify them as CD. A CD is a guy that likes to dress as a woman (not just for a show as in a drag queen), no matter what their sexual orientation.
For myself, I can't say that I have *no* desire to be with a man, I have some curiosity there, but I think in my heart of hearts I prefer women. Trouble is, women don't usually prefer CD's...

:(

camera_laura

08-24-2007, 12:25 AM

I think my thread just got hi-jacked...lol

Hope that I didn't contribute to the hi-jacking! :eek:

Here's a reminder of what this thread is about:

Seems the background information may be interfering with the actual question. Let's try just the question:

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience?

No. I would say that this would be the farthest thing from my mind.

If you have had/are having relations with a man then this question would apply to you.

Doesn't apply to me, but I would have to say that this is an excellent question, based on what it appears that you are trying to find out.

Now let me step on my :sb: for just a second....

It never fails to amaze me just how ignorant the general population is regarding CD/TV/TG.

By the same token, I am impressed at just how intelligent the discussions are on this forum. While I am a newbie and have seen a couple of complaints, I have not experienced *anything* other that courtesy and very well reasoned discourse.

Thank you *all* for your genuine/relevant/intelligent participation. But most of all, let's give a big :clap: to our moderators and/or sponsors.

Just my :2c:

Bonnie D

08-24-2007, 01:52 PM

Hi Wickanne,

Sorry about the "Wich" part. :heehee:

I can definitely see why you would be confused, it is something that has been confusing for me all my life. Being two different people per se and subjugating one due to non-acceptance. "Okay, we are alone now so you can get dressed. Put on some pretty, sexy clothes and come out for a little while." "This is fine and I really enjoy it but I want to experience being with a man, I am a woman you know." "No, you can't I have made commitments." It is not something that is easy to tell someone else who you have feelings for although it is something that should definitely be discussed before commitments are made. When they are not, everyone gets hurt eventually.

Bonnie

Wickanne GG

08-24-2007, 03:32 PM

Susan Anne

I used your post to me as a quote in another thread I started. I just occurred to me that I should have asked you first. I apologize.
If you don’t want your reply used in the context of the other thread then send me a PM and I’ll remove it.:boo:

Goofus

For myself, I can't say that I have *no* desire to be with a man, I have some curiosity there, but I think in my heart of hearts I prefer women. Trouble is, women don't usually prefer CD's...

By being true to yourself you will be true to others. The one thing I find very sexy about a man, regardless of the clothing, is honesty. I am certain there are many women who will accept you for you, after you accept yourself. 0.02

Camera Laura

I just think you may be off in a world of your own, but we luv ya. :twirl:

Bonnie D

I only have the same 0.02 I replied to Goofus. :hugs:

:love:
Wickanne

goofus

08-24-2007, 10:20 PM

Goofus

By being true to yourself you will be true to others. The one thing I find very sexy about a man, regardless of the clothing, is honesty. I am certain there are many women who will accept you for you, after you accept yourself. 0.02

:love:
Wickanne

Well thank you for that, Anne, I hope you're correct :hugs:

Sweet Jane

08-25-2007, 04:25 PM

Of the eleven CDs I have met not one was truly heterosexual in the traditional sense.

I am strictly heterosexual. Whether I am dressed in womens clothes or not, the thought of any kind of intimacy with a guy (or anyone (CD etc) with guys anatomy) is very distasteful. Appreciate this is just how I feel, and I'm certainly not condemning others sexuality.

Some wanted to be with a dominant woman. Dominance is a trait strongly associated with men.

I also don't have any real interest in being dominated....nor do I wish to dominate anyone else

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you?

Sexually, I can only suppose, if being dressed as a woman can be interpretted by some here as consigning me to the female role, then I am only interested in a woman to woman relationship. I still view this relationship as strictly heterosexual though, as really, I am a man.

Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience?

No...I would view this as a homosexual experience.

Having said that, is it okay for you to conceal your past homosexual activities/current homosexual fantasies from your SO?

hmmmm past homosexual actiities??..I have none to conceal, but really past relationships are just that aren't they?...maybe they are best left there?

:love:
Wickanne

thats my 2 cents anyway..hope it helps

missattitude

08-25-2007, 04:48 PM

Well, I use to think that I was a straight crossdresser/heterosexual, but now that I let my true feelings come out I have been with a man ever since and probably will never date a girl as long as I live. I love to dress, love everything about crossdressing, and of course, I am one hundred percent gay. I find it peculiar that the majority of crossdressers are straight guys that have wives and stuff. How different people can be. There is never a time though, before I was first with a guy that I wanted to be with a guy. It kind of made me this way. So, as many of the posts say they are 100 percent straight, I am here to say I am 100 pecernt gay!!!

Miss Thang

Michelle37

08-25-2007, 04:53 PM

CourtneyinTaylor

08-25-2007, 05:41 PM

I am married to a wonderful woman. Yet i am bi. i have urges for certain male companionship i guess is the safest way to say it. My wife knows this and tell me to act on it as she knows she can not give me what i want. Although i have never done anything with another man dressed it does peak an interest.

There was a report on the radio one day talking about a large group of black men being on the dl (down low). it talked about many professional men going out having sex with other men, yet still living a "strait" life. these men considered themselves as strait. Though to me and and the show hosts they were bi or even gay as some of them would only have sex with men. To me sexuality is not a state of mind other wise their would be no categories it would just be people having sex.

Today's society has given us 3 groups, strait gay or bi. In the TG community its not so black and white. there are the 3 plus trans bi sexual a person that will be with the same genetic sex as them but ONLY when dressed. It has become such a state of mind thing that i don't think many will ever truly know or admit to what society has given them.

Sally24

08-25-2007, 05:55 PM

Of the eleven CDs I have met not one was truly heterosexual in the traditional sense. Some had homosexual experiences, some fantasized about having homosexual experiences, and a couple of them had homosexual experiences and continue to fantasize about homosexual experiences, but all of them claimed it was only while enfemme.

I would have to say that your definition of heterosexual is very narrow if you can't even have fantasies outside of that mold. I would think that would put at least 40% of "heterosexual" males in a non-traditional catagory.

Since you have "met" 11 CD's we can assume that they are out and about in public to some extent. The CD's that go out in public are a tiny fraction of the Cd's that exist in the population so they aren't a very representative sample. It's kind of like sampling all the men that climb Mt. Everest and expecting the results to be in line with the average male in the general population.

And finally, many of us are boderline transexuals. We are not turned on by the clothes or the makeup. We wish to be treated as females when dressed. To be treated as females invariably means interaction with the other half of the species, males! It may be an attraction to the feminine experience more than an attraction to the males. I know I appreciate, and maybe even desire sometimes, social interaction with males. I do not desire a sexual relationship but a close social relationship would be ok.

Hope my 2 cents helps a little with an understanding.

PS - Concealing homosexual experiences from an SO is probably a bad thing, but not sharing "fantasies" is just a privacy issue.

Wickanne GG

08-25-2007, 09:19 PM

I would have to say that your definition of heterosexual is very narrow if you can't even have fantasies outside of that mold. I would think that would put at least 40% of "heterosexual" males in a non-traditional catagory.

Since you have "met" 11 CD's we can assume that they are out and about in public to some extent. The CD's that go out in public are a tiny fraction of the Cd's that exist in the population so they aren't a very representative sample. It's kind of like sampling all the men that climb Mt. Everest and expecting the results to be in line with the average male in the general population.

I believe I covered this in post #20, #59, #62, and possibly #69 also.

And finally, many of us are boderline transexuals. We are not turned on by the clothes or the makeup. We wish to be treated as females when dressed. To be treated as females invariably means interaction with the other half of the species, males! It may be an attraction to the feminine experience more than an attraction to the males. I know I appreciate, and maybe even desire sometimes, social interaction with males. I do not desire a sexual relationship but a close social relationship would be ok.

Hope my 2 cents helps a little with an understanding.

PS - Concealing homosexual experiences from an SO is probably a bad thing, but not sharing "fantasies" is just a privacy issue.

You make a good point about being attracted to the "..feminine experience more than an attraction to the males."

I am curious and feel free not to answer if you so choose. Do you crave the same/similar social interaction with males when you are in drab?

:love:
Wickanne